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View Full Version : Kerr's Missed Opportunity



Funbunch5
10-04-2008, 08:19 PM
This isn't a slam Kerr thread, but it is an observation I had. IMO Kerr fell victim to the syndrome called win now at all cost by picking up Shaq. I understand that:

we weren't going to win it all with Marion and he was disenfranchised which was ruining team chemistry
Shaq added rebounding and size
Shaq added championship experience


However as we saw it is nearly impossible to win a championship when removing one core player and adding another core player in the middle of the year. Basically what I am saying in hindsight is Kerr should have rode out the season with the team we had.

Then we would have come into the offseason with Marion opting out of his contract. That would have freed up roughly $17m. I believe the Suns are around 8m over the cap so that would have left around 9m to go pick up Shawns replacement. For that money and some change we could have picked up Josh Smith who is a younger better version of Shawn Marion.

My assumption is we would have been bounced in the first round if we kept Marion, so are draft position would have been about the same. Therefore, RoLo would be are center and Drajic our back up PG. Additionally, If possible I would say let Grant walk and then in Free Agency go pick up Barnes. Basically the offseason would be the same accept for letting Grant walk. By letting Grant walk and not picking up Shaq we have a much younger fresher team.

Are team would look like this:

PG -Nash/Dragic
SG - Bell/Barbosa/Barnes
SF - Smith/Barnes
PF - Amare/Diaw
C - Lopez/Amare/Diaw

That team is 9 deep, young, fast and Sarver is happy because we wouldn't be over the salary cap. I am not addressing if we still would have picked or Porter or kept D'Antoni. Either way I think that is a solid roster that either coach would be able to win with.

If the Suns don't win with Shaq this move set the Suns back a good 3 years.

PhxGiant
10-04-2008, 10:22 PM
I think we ended up with a far better team with the route we took.

amare#1
10-04-2008, 10:34 PM
Some good points... but as Giant pointed out I think that the team we have now is still better. I am much more reassured and comfortable now that we have a legitimate, solid center in Shaq.

theimortalone
10-04-2008, 10:52 PM
I think we ended up with a far better team with the route we took.

I agree. Wait until this year is over to say on whether or not the Shaq trade was worthless. If we loss in the first round, the we failed with the trade. Give it a season before you say that man. The shaq experiment came in a little too late, and Shaq did not have time to adjust to the Mike D's Run And Gun Suns. Not to mention we were missing a big part of our team in the 1st round(Grant Hill being hurt) That set us back with him going down. Game 1 would have been ours had TD not hit that miraculous 3 pointer. The series would have been tied 2-2, 3-2 at that, and game 6 would have gone back home, and we could have stolen that one sending it to game 7. So The Shaq trade wasnt a failure.

PhxGiant
10-04-2008, 11:09 PM
I agree. Wait until this year is over to say on whether or not the Shaq trade was worthless. If we loss in the first round, the we failed with the trade. Give it a season before you say that man. The shaq experiment came in a little too late, and Shaq did not have time to adjust to the Mike D's Run And Gun Suns. Not to mention we were missing a big part of our team in the 1st round(Grant Hill being hurt) That set us back with him going down. Game 1 would have been ours had TD not hit that miraculous 3 pointer. The series would have been tied 2-2, 3-2 at that, and game 6 would have gone back home, and we could have stolen that one sending it to game 7. So The Shaq trade wasnt a failure.


Excellant points. Although the previously mentioned scenario is pretty cool to think about, we would no longer be a championship calibur team with RoLo being the lone man in the middle as a rookie. As of right now we are, and we're set to grab some nice players in the 2010 free agency .

Funbunch5
10-05-2008, 12:46 PM
I agree. Wait until this year is over to say on whether or not the Shaq trade was worthless. If we loss in the first round, the we failed with the trade. Give it a season before you say that man. The shaq experiment came in a little too late, and Shaq did not have time to adjust to the Mike D's Run And Gun Suns. Not to mention we were missing a big part of our team in the 1st round(Grant Hill being hurt) That set us back with him going down. Game 1 would have been ours had TD not hit that miraculous 3 pointer. The series would have been tied 2-2, 3-2 at that, and game 6 would have gone back home, and we could have stolen that one sending it to game 7. So The Shaq trade wasnt a failure.


I am not saying the Shaq trade is worthless. As I pointed out that there was not enough time to build chemistry by removing one core player for another in the middle of season. It was unrealistic to think we could win a championship last year once we made that move. I am excited for this year because the players have had a whole offseason to build their chemistry, Shaq is in shape and motivated, this could be a very good year for us.

However, with the Shaq trade the Suns window is opened now and maybe next year. After that Shaq, Nash and Bell are gone. The team I proposed above is:

Young
Can win now
Can stay together for the next 5-7 years
Not strapped for cash so older players can be replaced


The basic benefits with this option gives the Suns more cash flexibility and allows Sarver to stay ahead of the Salary Cap, while at the same time putting up a team that can be competative for a much longer period.

Hindsight is 20/20 and it is fun to play arm chair GM. We will have a competative team this year but I enjoy speculating with Suns fans and getting your thoughts also.

Funbunch5
10-05-2008, 12:52 PM
Excellant points. Although the previously mentioned scenario is pretty cool to think about, we would no longer be a championship calibur team with RoLo being the lone man in the middle as a rookie. As of right now we are, and we're set to grab some nice players in the 2010 free agency .

I disagree because in that scenario we have Amare as PF and Josh Smith as SF with more depth. Basically RoLo becomes a better version of Steven Hunter. This team is fast can play D and hit threes. This would be a very dangerous team.

PhxGiant
10-05-2008, 01:06 PM
I disagree because in that scenario we have Amare as PF and Josh Smith as SF with more depth. Basically RoLo becomes a better version of Steven Hunter. This team is fast can play D and hit threes. This would be a very dangerous team.


Amare and Josh Smith get blocks because they are good help side defenders, meaning they aren't GREAT at man to man coverage against the Duncan's, Garnett's, Jefferson's. RoLo is a capable defender but when it comes to winning NOW we wouldn't be a championship team, but that line up would work after Robin developes for a couple seasons.

king4day
10-05-2008, 08:28 PM
I think it's a moot point cuz I don't think he woulda opted out since he couldn't get that money from anywhere else. I can't see why he'd have stayed with miami otherwise.

king4day
10-05-2008, 08:31 PM
I don't get how we're set back 3 years if it doesn't work. We have a lotta cap space in 2 years. We can regroup then.
If RoLo and Dragic pan out and become starters, then we can use that money to sign a big money guy for a few key FA's and remain title contenders after the Shaq run.

PhxOakFan3220
10-05-2008, 08:45 PM
i agree

JPHX
10-05-2008, 09:41 PM
no i like our situation now and for the future.

Next Year's Musts
Move Diaw's contract for an expiring

Players Under Contract in 2010:
STAT
LB
Goran
Robin
Alando
________

Salary: 30,000,000



2010 Checklist:
Go after LeBron or D-Wade with max contracts
Re-Sign Nash for 2 years

Funbunch5
10-05-2008, 09:51 PM
I don't get how we're set back 3 years if it doesn't work. We have a lotta cap space in 2 years. We can regroup then.
If RoLo and Dragic pan out and become starters, then we can use that money to sign a big money guy for a few key FA's and remain title contenders after the Shaq run.

I can't do math I should have said 2 years. :confused: The disadvantage I see with the way Kerr went is in two years we have to build chemistry with brand new players all over again, as opposed to a team that has been playing together for 2 years. Additionally, it is not a forgone conclusion that we will land one of the top fA's.

Also I should have stipulated early when I was thinking about this I was putting myself in Kerrs shoes to see what I would have done. I was looking at this from what it would take to put fans in the seats at the same time what would make financial sense for the organization. With this solution we would have had a very competative team and the organization would be better off because of the amount of salary that was being saved.

Funbunch5
10-05-2008, 09:58 PM
I think it's a moot point cuz I don't think he woulda opted out since he couldn't get that money from anywhere else. I can't see why he'd have stayed with miami otherwise.


Good point, that is the monkey wrench in my master plan. :mad:

I would rather have Shaq than Marion. Marion is younger than Shaq, but I think Marion's best years are behind him and his value is going to be much less than even a declining Shaq.

kjfan
10-06-2008, 12:53 AM
I would rather have a player who wants to be here, (shaq) over a player who does not want to be here (marion).

The suns have not had a solid big man since mark west and Shaq is a great teacher and mentor for lopez. Good Trade.

Sillysoft
10-06-2008, 03:45 PM
Shaq or not the Suns are in a win now status anyway because Nash doesnt have much time left. But you get someone like Lopez and you are better off then last year because you have a defensive minded rookie big man who can learn from Shaq. Offense can be taught, defense takes a lot more mentally and physically.

The Suns are now in a better situation when it comes time for rebuilding because Shaqs salary is off the books along with Nash.

Rome
10-06-2008, 05:21 PM
You can't replace to hall of famers like Nash and Shaq but you can definitely get some pieces to try with that kind of cash. Next few years won't be dull that's for sure.

SpeedReed
10-07-2008, 12:28 AM
no i like our situation now and for the future.

Next Year's Musts
Move Diaw's contract for an expiring

Players Under Contract in 2010:
STAT
LB
Goran
Robin
Alando
________

Salary: 30,000,000



2010 Checklist:
Go after LeBron or D-Wade with max contracts
Re-Sign Nash for 2 years

where is AMARE? shouldn't we resign him? not sure we can compete for LBJ or WADE. we'll most likely use it to fill our roster (the remaining 7 spots) with some price friendly talent.

FYI Josh smithed signed with Alanta for $58 million/5yr ($11.6 a year) not quite the "$9 million and some change" this conversation is based around.

i think the suns have postioned themselves well to win now, as well as acquire youth for the future. (more will be aquired in 2010)

JPHX
10-07-2008, 01:13 AM
where is AMARE? shouldn't we resign him? not sure we can compete for LBJ or WADE. we'll most likely use it to fill our roster (the remaining 7 spots) with some price friendly talent.

FYI Josh smithed signed with Alanta for $58 million/5yr ($11.6 a year) not quite the "$9 million and some change" this conversation is based around.

i think the suns have postioned themselves well to win now, as well as acquire youth for the future. (more will be aquired in 2010)


of course we're ready to win now. but regardless if we do or not moving diaw's contract after this season for an expiring is an avenue we should explore harder. we get under 30 mil of cap space by 2010 and we become top contenders for high profile free agents like LBJ, Wade, T-Mac, etc.

however, amare doesnt become a free agent until a year later. but of course we re-sign him. thats a no brainer. we also do have youth in our squad (dragic, lopez) who could be potential pieces in our restoration of a big three. and where did you get "9mil" from?

Rome
10-07-2008, 02:57 AM
Isn't Amare a free agent in 2010?

JPHX
10-07-2008, 10:16 AM
he has an eto in 2010. idk read this http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9169

krazyasiankid
11-01-2008, 04:14 AM
its too risky in just letting Shawn walk out through the FA market. We could have lost him for nothing.

Funbunch5
11-01-2008, 03:04 PM
its too risky in just letting Shawn walk out through the FA market. We could have lost him for nothing.

It wouldn't have been for nothing. The Suns would have freed up all that salary to get another FA. A FA like Josh Smith who is a lot younger, cheaper and could be argued already better than Marion.

Bishnoff
11-02-2008, 01:36 AM
My assumption is we would have been bounced in the first round if we kept Marion, so are draft position would have been about the same. Therefore, RoLo would be are center and Drajic our back up PG. Additionally, If possible I would say let Grant walk and then in Free Agency go pick up Barnes. Basically the offseason would be the same accept for letting Grant walk. By letting Grant walk and not picking up Shaq we have a much younger fresher team.

Are team would look like this:

PG -Nash/Dragic
SG - Bell/Barbosa/Barnes
SF - Smith/Barnes
PF - Amare/Diaw
C - Lopez/Amare/Diaw




Watching RoLo play, aren't you glad that we did trade Marion for Shaq? There's no way we could of had a winning season this year with RoLo starting Centre. I can picture it now, RoLo and Amare sitting on the bench for most of the game with foul trouble.

We had to trade for a decent, experienced Centre; and Shaq is still that and then some.

amare#1
11-02-2008, 01:49 AM
Watching RoLo play, aren't you glad that we did trade Marion for Shaq? There's no way we could of had a winning season this year with RoLo starting Centre. I can picture it now, RoLo and Amare sitting on the bench for most of the game with foul trouble.

We had to trade for a decent, experienced Centre; and Shaq is still that and then some.

Very true.

theimortalone
11-02-2008, 03:39 AM
Watching RoLo play, aren't you glad that we did trade Marion for Shaq? There's no way we could of had a winning season this year with RoLo starting Centre. I can picture it now, RoLo and Amare sitting on the bench for most of the game with foul trouble.

We had to trade for a decent, experienced Centre; and Shaq is still that and then some.

100% agree with you bro! We would be screwed if we had Rolo Starting at C.

J-Relo
11-05-2008, 01:55 PM
I get your (the creator of the tread) idea.

However now it's a better situation.

First of all what I believe Kerr wanted is to go and try win it all, however there were Spurs ahead us & and they were lucky, who knows how the series would have went if not that DUncan's 3, maybe we would become champions... so with the Kerr's philosophy, we tried to get it with the team we had (+Shaq), and now we got even better team so we can try to take it this year...

by your philosophy> last year who knows > this year with some star that we got by spending cap Marion has left , Lopez - a rookie, he has potential to become good player, but not really an all-star (i hope he will, but who thinks he will?)- at starting position, while having Amare without some real help in the paint, so weaker wings too...

now we have great team! and let's not think what could have been, let's think what is now and what could be!