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View Full Version : Does anyone understand what the Nuggets are doing?



fairandbalanced
10-03-2008, 10:58 AM
I guess the Tinsley trade caught me off guard, but here is what I can't understand.......Is Denver tryiing to cut salary? why would they give away Camby for nothing just to turn around and get Tinsley and his 3yr 21million contract? Something is not right about this.

$KnicksAndKobe$
10-03-2008, 12:57 PM
coo coo for coco puffs

JayW_1023
10-03-2008, 01:03 PM
Trading away their most important player for banana peels can mean two things: The nuggets have a big trade planned or their Gm is a complete moron.

Oh yea...the luxury tax strikes again.

Chronz
10-03-2008, 01:17 PM
Check out : http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=269010

Tom81
10-03-2008, 01:56 PM
They're Confused

Litchris12
10-03-2008, 02:13 PM
not a bad trade. clears another spot up for someone to sign to minimum contract in the future. chucky atkins is always injured and steven hunter is a flop. if tinsley stays healthy he cud help. its gives more playing time for chris andersen and juwan howard if his contract is guarantee. plus there not gonna be in the luxury tax cuz they gonna have crazy cap space next year. I doubt iverson is gonna be back but u never know. the next thing they need to do is get rid of kenyon martins contract.

JordansBulls
10-03-2008, 02:15 PM
They needed a PG more than a Center IMO.

blazerman
10-03-2008, 03:05 PM
All they really have done was swap a really good defensive center for a decent point guard at best(Camby and Tinsley). It doesnt make their team any better, Iverson and Anthony should average a few points more but the team will end up suffering by the amount of points they will give up.

I thought the Camby thing was to cut cost and bringing in Tinsley only makes the GM look more confused.

when did this Tinsley deal take place anyway, I thought they were only in discussion about a trade anyway. It must have been yesterday I guess

JOSETHEALLSTAR
10-03-2008, 03:06 PM
They're Confused

SUNDUNDIDIT
10-03-2008, 08:27 PM
Nuggets got rid of a fragile,emaciated,lanky,injury prone 34 year old camby,and signed Balkman,Chris Andersen to help put emphasis on defense....


We have 6'11 Nene at Center who is a lot more physical, and is just as good as Camby when he;s actually playin....I expect Nene to get over his injury consistency this year, and play full fledged...Plus NENE did better in his limited games against the Lakers in the playoffs, then Camby did,[AND HE WAS OUT THE WHOLE SEASON]!!!!


Stop worryin about the NUGGETS...All of you dimwits keep statin how horrible of a team they are, so if they're so horrible, stop worryin about the Nuggets, and worry about your teams....Nuggets will do forselves, and focus on what needs to be done, to make us the best team that we should be!!

Nuff said.

jetsfan28
10-03-2008, 08:31 PM
Nuggets got rid of a fragile,emaciated,lanky,injury prone 34 year old camby,and signed Balkman,Chris Andersen to help put emphasis on defense....


We have 6'11 Nene at Center who is a lot more physical, and is just as good as Camby when he;s actually playin....I expect Nene to get over his injury consistency this year, and play full fledged...Plus NENE did better in his limited games against the Lakers in the playoffs, then Camby did,[AND HE WAS OUT THE WHOLE SEASON]!!!!


Stop worryin about the NUGGETS...All of you dimwits keep statin how horrible of a team they are, so if they're so horrible, stop worryin about the Nuggets, and worry about your teams....Nuggets will do forselves, and focus on what needs to be done, to make us the best team that we should be!!

Nuff said.

So now, instead of having 2 guys in case one of them gets hurt, they have only have one guy who's injury prone? And this is OK because you have a hunch that Nene will magically stop being injury prone?

Hawkeye15
10-03-2008, 08:31 PM
They are not doing well this offseason. They bring in another headache to go along with Melo, JR, Kenyon. They get rid of a defender, who, yes, was totally overrated and all stats, but at least he protected the basket a bit. Nene and Martin are jokes considering what they make, both are injury prone. They are in for a frustrating season. They will score enough points to get to that 45 win total, but I don't see anything more.

SUNDUNDIDIT
10-03-2008, 08:38 PM
So now, instead of having 2 guys in case one of them gets hurt, they have only have one guy who's injury prone? And this is OK because you have a hunch that Nene will magically stop being injury prone?



Imagine having 2 guys, and both of them get hurt...The potential existed, for Camby to go down, along with NENE, if he was to continue the habit of gettin hurt....

Everytime Camby jumped for a rebound, or a layup, the worried alarm would ring for nuggets fans.....I rather the Nuggets invest in someone who's still young, with the capability to flourish, then to invest in someone who isn't gettin any younger!!!!

And there isn't nothing "magical" about nene not bein injured...There's no mystical dynamic needed for Nene to have determination and the physical discipline to be healthy for a season, it just takes him learning from his past and knowing his body!

Hawkeye15
10-03-2008, 08:41 PM
Imagine having 2 guys, and both of them get hurt...The potential existed, for Camby to go down, along with NENE, if he was to continue the habit of gettin hurt....

Everytime Camby jumped for a rebound, or a layup, the worried alarm would ring for nuggets fans.....I rather the Nuggets invest in someone who's still young, with the capability to flourish, then to invest in someone who isn't gettin any younger!!!!

And there isn't nothing "magical" about nene not bein injured...There's no mystical dynamic needed for Nene to have determination and the physical discipline to be healthy for a season, it just takes him learning from his past and knowing his body!

I hear where you are coming from. But the fact is, for the short term, they are a horrible defensive team. They have to get rid of Karl, and bring in a coach, and low priced vets that care about D. If they let Iverson walk, they will have a ton of money to work with as well.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
10-03-2008, 09:01 PM
I wish Avery Johnson was Denver's coach.

MiamiHeat
10-03-2008, 09:03 PM
they are in between

RoyalG333
10-03-2008, 09:08 PM
Karl is not going to win Denver a title. Larry Brown would do a better job with this team. AI can reunite with the coach that took him and the Sixers to the finals.

Seventh King
10-03-2008, 09:28 PM
You know, being a Bulls fan, this kind of **** makes me feel right at home, LMAO.

RapsGuy23
10-03-2008, 09:28 PM
In his day Camby was good, maybe even great but he's getting old. I still don't know why Denver gave up Camby for next to nothing??? You would think he would be worth a piece or two. I've always liked Nene's game. I hope he can have a healthy and productive season. Denver need to address their need for a pg before they can be taken serious in the west anyways. Tinsley can ball but it sounds like that deals still in the works. Humm

IBleedPurple
10-03-2008, 09:30 PM
I hear where you are coming from. But the fact is, for the short term, they are a horrible defensive team. They have to get rid of Karl, and bring in a coach, and low priced vets that care about D. If they let Iverson walk, they will have a ton of money to work with as well.

^ Agreed
As a Nuggets fan, I think they're confused (as I voted). While the Camby move wasn't terrible, it was terrible what we got in return. Maybe a big trade is in the works, but c'mon......look at the calendar. Time is getting short before the games count.

If they could get Kenyon to renegotiate, they would be top 5 or 10 in cap space after this year. I think AI will walk next year. Maybe not if Karl is fired and AI is willing to take a pay cut, which would only happen if he's going to a championship caliber team.

Tinsley was just signed because Atkins gets paid to sit on the trainers table, and Anthony Carter is just average.

And I also am calling for Avery Johnson. Even he could get the current team to win at least one playoff series. Karl is a playoff choker, and runs the fast break which always breaks down in the playoffs when the D tightens up.

THE_FLASH_21
10-03-2008, 09:38 PM
can't open link what happend??? sounds juicy!!!

AIMelo=KillaDUO
10-03-2008, 10:26 PM
No way KMart would re-negotiate. If you were makin 20 million and your boss walks up to you and says "it's up to you if you want to make 20 million or 10 million" doesn't really make sense.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
10-03-2008, 10:26 PM
500... Very nice.

blacknell
10-03-2008, 11:08 PM
they trying to rebuild

Hawkeye15
10-03-2008, 11:10 PM
they trying to rebuild

exactly. They are trying to rebuild on the fly, which works if you have some talented youth with nonproductive vets.

IndyRealist
10-03-2008, 11:17 PM
Their payroll was so high after the AI trade that they were bleeding luxury tax money. When it was decided that last year's configuration couldn't contend, they cut payroll. Camby was the easiest contract to get rid of, and they didn't have to take any salary back in return. The room he freed up under the cap allowed Denver to re-sign JR Smith without exceeding the tax again. Yes, Dever lost talent. But they gained financial viability.

The Tinsley trade is salary neutral, so he's not costing them tax money, just an extra year. If he works out, then they acquired an amazing talent for basicially no extra money this year. They are one of the few teams that aren't trying to get under the cap for 2010, since Melo chose to sign a longer term contract than either Lebron or Wade, so they won't be able to get far enough under to make a bid for them regardless. Tinsley solves the biggest hole in their roster for second and third string players.

goku
10-03-2008, 11:18 PM
dont care

sportsnutzz
10-03-2008, 11:28 PM
dont care

Would you look at that..... I agree with a Rockets fan! :D

Boozerguy47
10-03-2008, 11:35 PM
They have no system for their offense. They're confused and lost.

23LBJCleBrowns
10-03-2008, 11:46 PM
Did the trade happen for sure because on ESPN it says it didnt happen.

SUNDUNDIDIT
10-03-2008, 11:55 PM
They have no system for their offense. They're confused and lost.


^^This guy is the most dumbest,oblivous,idiot to ever comment on the nuggets....I really do not mean disrespect Boozerguy, but i'm callin it how I see it, and what you just said really doesn't make sense!!!!


...I mean....How the hell do we not have no system to our offense, when we are one of the highest scoring teams, with two of the highest scoring players????? I think you meant "DEFENSE"[ !!! ]

Anybody with any receptive sensors in their brain, would know that our offense is existent, and one of the best....It's the defense that we are lacking, and having trouble with...Not offense!! WOW!

BkOriginalOne
10-04-2008, 12:11 AM
The tinsely trade did not happen.
The nuggets cannot really be judged until we see these new guys on the cart together. Granted they appear thin at the front line, losing guys like camby and najera. But they have acquired some players which could make them a very deep team at the 2-4 positions. Something that they did not really have before. Look at the players they've gotten.
Chris Anderson
Renaldo Blackman
Mateen cleaves
Nick Fazekas could make the team
Dahntay Jones
Juwan Howard
Ruben Patterson, who let I remind you:
13pts, 2,6asp 3.5 reb 1.3 stl
Not bad to have a guy like that push klezia to play more minutes.

While this roster seems that masterful there are some players on it who should not be taken lightly.
Allen Iverson: Playing in a contract year, better he plays the more is value is when he enters into free agency for the 1st time in his career.
Carmelo Anythony: Only 24 years old, people forget how young he is. Just one an olympic gold medal playing the 4.
Kenyon Martin. Number 1 draft pick, coming back nicely from injury, sometimes they're best defender against the lakers
Nene. Also coming off surgery and eager to get back on the court as we saw in the playoffs
Anthony Carter. Trying to keep his job!
Jr Smith. This is his coming out here. Karl knows exactly how to play Jr Smith now, and beleive me he's going to use him.

But seriously, don't count these guys out because I feel like they have alot of depth and can run a whole new set of lineups which might work well against alot of teams.
Allen Iveron
Jr SMtih
Kleiza, Blackman, Patterson
Melo
Kmart/Nene

Can certainly be effective in stretches when they need to be.
There are only about 10 teams in the west we can make the playoffs:
Dallas, Denver, Jazz, Suns, Portland, Hornets, Lakers, Spurs, Rockets, Clippers (i'm leaving out the warriors cause the Baron Davis thing was too much of a loss)
Which means denver basically has to have a better record then the clippers and the blazers
I say, 7th-8th seed in the west though

23LBJCleBrowns
10-04-2008, 12:15 AM
Those were some very Valid points.

IBleedPurple
10-04-2008, 01:28 AM
dont care

Wow, what an in depth post. If you don't care, don't post. If you don't care because you think the Rockets are all of a sudden gonna quit being playoff chokers, then at least put that.

IBleedPurple
10-04-2008, 01:47 AM
No way KMart would re-negotiate. If you were makin 20 million and your boss walks up to you and says "it's up to you if you want to make 20 million or 10 million" doesn't really make sense.

He could renegotiate for a longer deal though. Obviously it shows how much he cares about winning a championship. Once he hits the FA market, he won't make very much, so he could balance out the rest of his huge deal for something that would pay him more than he would make after this contract, while saving the team money now.

Worst contract for the Nuggets in the last 15 years, except for Tskitishvili.

Chronz
10-04-2008, 02:09 AM
^^This guy is the most dumbest,oblivous,idiot to ever comment on the nuggets....I really do not mean disrespect Boozerguy, but i'm callin it how I see it, and what you just said really doesn't make sense!!!!


...I mean....How the hell do we not have no system to our offense, when we are one of the highest scoring teams, with two of the highest scoring players????? I think you meant "DEFENSE"[ !!! ]

Anybody with any receptive sensors in their brain, would know that our offense is existent, and one of the best....It's the defense that we are lacking, and having trouble with...Not offense!! WOW!

Every team has a system but the Nuggets is pretty one dimensional and they are pretty average offensively. Just because you run like crazy and have the most possessions in the league doesnt make you good offensively.

valade16
10-04-2008, 02:27 AM
All I hear from the guys saying that the Nuggets will be far better is that all their players are going to suddenly have massive improvements. Granted, the team will get better and the players will improve but not at the monumental pace you seem to think so.

And besides, they are in the Western Conference, the Lakers, Spurs, Hornets, and Jazz are all legitimately far superior teams and in all likelyhood the Rockets and Suns will be too.

And if were talking about young players making massive improvements to field a good team the Warriors and Blazers have way, WAY, more potential than any players on the Nuggets roster and are more likely to improve by leaps and bounds over the Nuggets roster.

If you include the Clippers and Mavericks into the equation (though I'm not sold on either, they could be good teams) and suddenly your "massive improvement" is good enough to have you fighting for the playoffs...

blazerman
10-04-2008, 03:20 AM
^^This guy is the most dumbest,oblivous,idiot to ever comment on the nuggets....I really do not mean disrespect Boozerguy, but i'm callin it how I see it, and what you just said really doesn't make sense!!!!


...I mean....How the hell do we not have no system to our offense, when we are one of the highest scoring teams, with two of the highest scoring players????? I think you meant "DEFENSE"[ !!! ]

Anybody with any receptive sensors in their brain, would know that our offense is existent, and one of the best....It's the defense that we are lacking, and having trouble with...Not offense!! WOW!

I have been reading through all the posts and you really like to cut down others for their opinion. For you to go on a rant about how great your offense is a joke, your team reminds me of the "bad news bears", a bunch of misfits.

I will back up what "Boozerguy" said and I am going to explain what he meant. First Denver does have 2 guys that can score and create there own shot, Smith is good in the open court and Kleiza is all around good and thats about it.(please dont try and convince anybody that you guy's have an inside game). Denver as a team sucks in the half court "which is playoff basketball", something you guys wont see for awhile. Denver's Turnovers to assist ratio was pretty bad (direct result that their OFFENSE has very little leadership.

Sure they score points but they give up more and it's not all from there defense or "lack there of", it's because of turnovers which are caused by the OFFENSE, and your best player only likes to play offense and trots down court when he misses a shot,forces a shot or turns it over, Your coach has a history of letting stuff like that slide.

Personally I see weak defense as a sign of laziness and weak coaching. You are a Denver fan and a loyal one which makes it harder for you to deal with what is obvious to others and Im not gonna get into attitudes and selfishness of some of your players. I had to hear all this about the Blazers about 5/6yrs ago when I thought we could still contend and ultimately Portland had to clean house, front office included and as a die hard fan it sucked.

Sir Charles said it best "BLOW IT UP"

Oh yeah "Portland is gonna light your team up like a christmas tree"

Defense is half the game, something BOOZERGUY'S JAZZ AND MY BLAZERS WILL SHOW YOUR TEAM WHEN THEY MEET!!!!

KG#1
10-04-2008, 03:44 AM
if melo can play the 4(cause kenyon/nene wont play the whole season) and they try on d they might compete for 8th
dont mind tinsley trade they gave up nothing but still more than they got for camby

ertanozgur
10-04-2008, 04:34 AM
They're Confused

Beno7500
10-04-2008, 04:35 AM
They're Confused

DenButsu
10-04-2008, 08:00 AM
OMG! The Nuggets FO is, like, so totally confused lolz :D

Camby was like their most important player EVERRRRRR and they gave him away for what - nothing? :speechless: ewwwww!

And, like, AI and Melo are kewl and everything but :rolleyes: they're like so OVERrated and they're kind of like punks :( and all their tattoos are so gross! :puke: ew!

and omg jr is ok but my team is like sooooo much better :p wOOt! :cheer:

and the nuggets suck and :laugh: roffles no way they make the playoffs :speechless: but omg they're still kinda kewl lolzer :jumpy:

TheFuture6
10-04-2008, 08:17 AM
:laugh2:

BkOriginalOne
10-04-2008, 09:06 AM
You guys are acting like without camby the rest of the team was helpless. Camby did pick up alot of their mistakes, the gambles on offense, the bad D. True. However, don't you think Karl is going to address this in his coaching. Do you think he's going to keep the same plays from last season. No.
Obviously one of their popular plays, the high screen and roll to which leads to the alley from Camby to Kmart (always fun to see them run that) will be out of the system.
But new players would new abilities means new plays. No coach comes into a new year with new players and decided, "well, we made it to the playoffs last year" - this should be fine. You guys are assuming that Karl and his players are just dumb. That's not fair.
You talk about Portland. Oden is still, techically an improven rookie. You guys are weak at the pg just like we are. We can put a Jr SMith, or kleiza on you're RoY.
Who the hell from you're camp is going to stop the 3rd all time ppg leader, allen iverson.
Who the hell is going to guard the young olympic gold medal winner, melo.
(Isn't Brandon Roy on the baaabbby team. Awww, the junior olympian team, how cute)

Blazers are still young, you guys are constructing a team for the future. It looks like all you're missing is a quality pg who can the offense. And a offensive guy at the 3, Cause Roy can only play second fiddle, he's a good second option for you're team.

When we hit the floor with our lineup
Allen Iverson. ....Bayless? Blake? oh right sergio!
Jr Smith..... Roy is either going to get lit up from the outside or dunked on
Melo...... We saw how well rudy fernandez containted the US perimter players
Kmart.... Too bad
Nene.... Too bad... Frye, Oden, Aldridge are not gonna score.
You guys can't match up.

SUNDUNDIDIT
10-04-2008, 11:39 AM
Every team has a system but the Nuggets is pretty one dimensional and they are pretty average offensively. Just because you run like crazy and have the most possessions in the league doesnt make you good offensively.



We score points, period!!! What else qualifies as efficient OFFENSE????



I have been reading through all the posts and you really like to cut down others for their opinion. For you to go on a rant about how great your offense is a joke, your team reminds me of the "bad news bears", a bunch of misfits.

I will back up what "Boozerguy" said and I am going to explain what he meant. First Denver does have 2 guys that can score and create there own shot, Smith is good in the open court and Kleiza is all around good and thats about it.(please dont try and convince anybody that you guy's have an inside game). Denver as a team sucks in the half court "which is playoff basketball", something you guys wont see for awhile. Denver's Turnovers to assist ratio was pretty bad (direct result that their OFFENSE has very little leadership.

Sure they score points but they give up more and it's not all from there defense or "lack there of", it's because of turnovers which are caused by the OFFENSE, and your best player only likes to play offense and trots down court when he misses a shot,forces a shot or turns it over, Your coach has a history of letting stuff like that slide.

Personally I see weak defense as a sign of laziness and weak coaching. You are a Denver fan and a loyal one which makes it harder for you to deal with what is obvious to others and Im not gonna get into attitudes and selfishness of some of your players. I had to hear all this about the Blazers about 5/6yrs ago when I thought we could still contend and ultimately Portland had to clean house, front office included and as a die hard fan it sucked.

Sir Charles said it best "BLOW IT UP"

Oh yeah "Portland is gonna light your team up like a christmas tree"

Defense is half the game, something BOOZERGUY'S JAZZ AND MY BLAZERS WILL SHOW YOUR TEAM WHEN THEY MEET!!!!



BLAZER MAN??????


Your teams overrated....Your team hasn;t proved nothing yet...Oden hasn't proved himself yet, he's still a rookie!!

And you're halfassed philosophy on our offense contributing most of the points scored against us, shows your desperately reaching with the point you are tyin to make!!

We have one of the highest scoring teams...NO MATTER HOW YOUR BIAS ***** looks at it, THATS GOOD OFFENSE!!!...If Nuggets improve on DEFENSE, which they've been focused on doin, then they will be better then most teams!!!!

ON paper???? We are better then most teams....It just takes the right chemistry to be formulated...

But your team is overrated, and has to prove themselves before givin any speculation to bein a playoff team!!! And thats word!

$ NyC $
10-04-2008, 12:22 PM
AIMELO=KILLADUO said that he wished Avery Johnson was the coach. I agree 120%. Denver is a naturally very talented offensive team. Their players get points and know how to get points. If they know how to do it you don't have to tell them how. Now what they DON'T know how 2 do is play DEFENSE, and this is something Avery Johnson could help teach. Their offense will always be there, but Avery could help get rid of their biggest weakness.

BkOriginalOne
10-04-2008, 12:59 PM
Scoring points does not make you an offensive team. Points on the board can make result from so many different things.
The team could play a more fast pace offense, they could jack up 3s and hit at a decent percentage... or it means they get to the free throw line quite a bit, with respectable success from there.
Offesively efficent, would be a team like phoenix suns, who have a low asisst to turnover ration. Shoot well from the floor, the line and the 3 point mark.

Nuggets:
110.7 ppg
24.7 asp/14.7tos
.751% Ft
.355% 3pt
.470% Fg

Suns:
110.1 ppg
26.7apg/14.4tos
.783% ft
.393% 3pt.
.500% fg

SUNDUNDIDIT
10-04-2008, 01:09 PM
Scoring points does not make you an offensive team. Points on the board can make result from so many different things.
The team could play a more fast pace offense, they could jack up 3s and hit at a decent percentage... or it means they get to the free throw line quite a bit, with respectable success from there.
Offesively efficent, would be a team like phoenix suns, who have a low asisst to turnover ration. Shoot well from the floor, the line and the 3 point mark.

Nuggets:
110.7 ppg
24.7 asp/14.7tos
.751% Ft
.355% 3pt
.470% Fg

Suns:
110.1 ppg
26.7apg/14.4tos
.783% ft
.393% 3pt.
.500% fg


The fact is, they stILL "SCORE"!!!!! WHat else is needed??????? Scoring is scoring, doesn't matter how you score!!!

The offense gets the job done, and if they have turnover ratio, then it's a good defenses job to inhibit the other teams comeback points....Nuggets had the 2nd highest scoring average....WE KNOW THIS!!!

If their defense has more effort, then it wouldn't matter how bad our offense does with turnovers!

My main point...Is the offense shouldn't be focused on, PERIOD....It's the defense!

Hustla23
10-04-2008, 01:49 PM
Worst Front Office in the NBA IMO.

BkOriginalOne
10-04-2008, 01:54 PM
The fact is, they stILL "SCORE"!!!!! WHat else is needed??????? Scoring is scoring, doesn't matter how you score!!!

The offense gets the job done, and if they have turnover ratio, then it's a good defenses job to inhibit the other teams comeback points....Nuggets had the 2nd highest scoring average....WE KNOW THIS!!!

If their defense has more effort, then it wouldn't matter how bad our offense does with turnovers!

My main point...Is the offense shouldn't be focused on, PERIOD....It's the defense!

Why so hyper?
You must have had a bad day or something.
Not quite sure if you understand what the word, "efficent" means. Let me help you out there:
Etymology:
Middle English, from Middle French or Latin; Middle French, from Latin efficient-, efficiens, from present participle of efficere
Date:
14th century

1: being or involving the immediate agent in producing an effect <the efficient action of heat in changing water to steam>
2: productive of desired effects ; especially : productive without waste <an efficient worker>

Thus, the term "efficient offense" seems to mean offesive produced without waste. As in, wasted possessions. Assist to turnover ration is the marker for an efficient offense. The stat itslef means, how often you score compared to how often you lose possession. If viewing a turnover as a 0 on an offensive scale, with 100 being scoring, and let's say, getting freethrows can be looked at as a 50.
With this mathetical logic.
Nuggets have 2,024 successful possesions a season
and have 1,203 failed possesions a season.

That equates to about a 62.7% success rate. Not even 2/3. Which means, something bad is going to happen on a nuggets possesions over 1/3 of the time. Basically, the nuggets will lose the ball 4 out every 11 trips down that one side of the court. Would yoou be happy with that as a coach. No, that's because, THAT is not effecient.
We score points, true. But assuming that we score layups, dunks, jump shots those 11 times. That's 22 points. But the other team could come down on those 4 possessions and hit 3s, which means we'd only be 10 points ahead. These 10 points ahead would be assuming that they the other team doesn't score themselves in any of their 11 possessions. Which, is highly unilkely. All they have to do is score 5x out of the 11 to catch up. Either way, they're still 6 possesions ahead the whole game.
The only to fix the gap is to get better defensively (AKA: Gain more possesions) or maximize the possesions we have, by improving the offense. 2 less turnovers per game or 2 more assists a game (which is around the difference between us and the Suns)
11 possesions, 4 tos (currently what we're looking at) 62.7% success rate
OR
13 possesions, 4 tos (better D) 76.5% success rate
11 possesions, 2 to. (better offense) 84.6% success rate

Disagree?

Chronz
10-04-2008, 02:12 PM
The fact is, they stILL "SCORE"!!!!! WHat else is needed??????? Scoring is scoring, doesn't matter how you score!!!
This is the fundamental misunderstanding people have when dissecting a teams offensive and defensive capabilities. You score because you run, you dont score because your efficient. Efficiency is what wins games


The offense gets the job done, and if they have turnover ratio, then it's a good defenses job to inhibit the other teams comeback points....Nuggets had the 2nd highest scoring average....WE KNOW THIS!!!

If their defense has more effort, then it wouldn't matter how bad our offense does with turnovers!

My main point...Is the offense shouldn't be focused on, PERIOD....It's the defense!

The Offense was average, if you think being average is good then you have low expectations.

The Nuggets had the leagues highest pace rating and had about 8 extra possessions per game than league average so it wouldve been hard for them NOT to put up alot of points on the board. That doesnt mean you have a good offense, it simply means you have more possessions than any other team.

The Detroit Pistons are the exact opposite of the Nuggets they ranked as the slowest team in the league and only averaged 97PTS per game but they had a better more efficient offense than the Nuggets did. The best offenses are those that score the most with as little possessions as possible. Im not saying good offenses cant run, Im saying just because you run doesnt make you good, historically its always the Nuggets that prove this be true. Do you remember those Westhead led Nuggets they averaged 120 PTS but ranked 21st in offensive rating. If they were really a great offensive team they wouldnt have lost 62 games.

SUNDUNDIDIT
10-04-2008, 02:35 PM
Why so hyper?
You must have had a bad day or something.
Not quite sure if you understand what the word, "efficent" means. Let me help you out there:
Etymology:
Middle English, from Middle French or Latin; Middle French, from Latin efficient-, efficiens, from present participle of efficere
Date:
14th century

1: being or involving the immediate agent in producing an effect <the efficient action of heat in changing water to steam>
2: productive of desired effects ; especially : productive without waste <an efficient worker>

Thus, the term "efficient offense" seems to mean offesive produced without waste. As in, wasted possessions. Assist to turnover ration is the marker for an efficient offense. The stat itslef means, how often you score compared to how often you lose possession. If viewing a turnover as a 0 on an offensive scale, with 100 being scoring, and let's say, getting freethrows can be looked at as a 50.
With this mathetical logic.
Nuggets have 2,024 successful possesions a season
and have 1,203 failed possesions a season.

That equates to about a 62.7% success rate. Not even 2/3. Which means, something bad is going to happen on a nuggets possesions over 1/3 of the time. Basically, the nuggets will lose the ball 4 out every 11 trips down that one side of the court. Would yoou be happy with that as a coach. No, that's because, THAT is not effecient.
We score points, true. But assuming that we score layups, dunks, jump shots those 11 times. That's 22 points. But the other team could come down on those 4 possessions and hit 3s, which means we'd only be 10 points ahead. These 10 points ahead would be assuming that they the other team doesn't score themselves in any of their 11 possessions. Which, is highly unilkely. All they have to do is score 5x out of the 11 to catch up. Either way, they're still 6 possesions ahead the whole game.
The only to fix the gap is to get better defensively (AKA: Gain more possesions) or maximize the possesions we have, by improving the offense. 2 less turnovers per game or 2 more assists a game (which is around the difference between us and the Suns)
11 possesions, 4 tos (currently what we're looking at) 62.7% success rate
OR
13 possesions, 4 tos (better D) 76.5% success rate
11 possesions, 2 to. (better offense) 84.6% success rate

Disagree?




Hyper???? Explain how you can observe such emotion through a monitor??? Nothing in my post conveyed any sensitive mannerisms, so don't feel threatened by me puttin emphasis on certain points that I make!!! :rolleyes:

You take what I say too literally.....EFFICIENT means "CAPABLE", and like your dictionary translation explained, "productive with desired effects", with or without the "especially: productive without waste"...They "produce the desired effects" and are "capable" to be a consistent high scoring team, which got them 50 wins last year.....


Your technical mathematics don't equate to the point that nuggets have a capability of scoring good points every night, regardless of possession or turnovers....It's simple, no need to make rocket science out of it...Over a 100ppg, makes Nuggets solidified and efficient on Offense to be productive enough to score.....tHe DeFeNsE is the main concern, not OFFENSE....I'll keep repeatin it until the end, get right!

Chronz
10-04-2008, 02:59 PM
Hyper???? Explain how you can observe such emotion through a monitor??? Nothing in my post conveyed any sensitive mannerisms, so don't feel threatened by me puttin emphasis on certain points that I make!!! :rolleyes:

You take what I say too literally.....EFFICIENT means "CAPABLE", and like your dictionary translation explained, "productive with desired effects", with or without the "especially: productive without waste"...They "produce the desired effects" and are "capable" to be a consistent high scoring team, which got them 50 wins last year.....


Your technical mathematics don't equate to the point that nuggets have a capability of scoring good points every night, regardless of possession or turnovers....It's simple, no need to make rocket science out of it...Over a 100ppg, makes Nuggets solidified and efficient on Offense to be productive enough to score.....tHe DeFeNsE is the main concern, not OFFENSE....I'll keep repeatin it until the end, get right!

Refer to my last post please

SUNDUNDIDIT
10-04-2008, 03:25 PM
Refer to my last post please


No, because your takin my efficient term too literal like the other guy I explained.....Refer to my last post....I imply the efficient term as in, being able to produce, with or without waste!! And nuggets are capable to produce points.

IversonIsKrazy
10-04-2008, 03:47 PM
im not sure wut they r doing. the tinsley trade in my opinion is very good. he gives out around 8 apg when hes healthy, chucky is always injured, and steven hunter is a benchwarmer. now the camby trade is still confusing. but then again, hes 34, can't play 1-on-1 defence. so i dunno. well this is how there line-up is going rite now.

PG: Tinsley/AC/Weems
SG: AI/JR/Weems
SF: Melo/Kleiza/Balkman
PF: K-Mart/Anderson
C: Nene/?

Pretty talented line-up, they need Avery Johnson 2 take over head coach.

blazerman
10-04-2008, 04:13 PM
Sundundidit you are a dimwit.

You can argue every point with every person that posts a response, it shows your just as confused as your team is when they try to play defense.

Let your team show their greatness on the court, oops I forgot their just great on paper. YOUR OWN WORDS

I dont think you could count your balls and get the same number twice

One more thing, the only way your team will learn how to play defense is if you can catch a genie in a bottle and make him give you three wishes and use all three!!!

Chronz
10-04-2008, 04:23 PM
No, because your takin my efficient term too literal like the other guy I explained.....Refer to my last post....I imply the efficient term as in, being able to produce, with or without waste!! And nuggets are capable to produce points.
Your last post was ridiculously flawed and the reason why is in my last post. The Nuggets are capable of running up and down but they arent a great offensive team, Detroit was better and they scored less points per game.

IBleedPurple
10-04-2008, 06:21 PM
Worst Front Office in the NBA IMO.

That is the funniest thing I have ever heard coming from a Knicks fan.

How would the Nuggets even attempt to get such an efficient and intelligent FO like the Knicks?

SUNDUNDIDIT
10-04-2008, 06:29 PM
Your last post was ridiculously flawed and the reason why is in my last post. The Nuggets are capable of running up and down but they arent a great offensive team, Detroit was better and they scored less points per game.



And yours was flawed also....Detroit scored less because they don't have 2 of the highest scoring players in the NBA...bLAH blah!!

Detroit was better, because they had a better defense...It's easy comprehension.




Sundundidit you are a dimwit.

You can argue every point with every person that posts a response, it shows your just as confused as your team is when they try to play defense.

Let your team show their greatness on the court, oops I forgot their just great on paper. YOUR OWN WORDS

I dont think you could count your balls and get the same number twice

One more thing, the only way your team will learn how to play defense is if you can catch a genie in a bottle and make him give you three wishes and use all three!!!


And you are a nitwit...I'm justified in my views, and I back up my opinion because I know it's thought out!!

And yeah my teams one of the best on paper, thanks for statin the obvious of my past comments....

But your team is non-existant....It's all speculation with whether your team will make the playoffs or not.....Nuggets have made the playoffs, and the fact people rank Portland[An unproven contender] over the nuggets, just proves they have plain hate for the nuggets!!


Like someone else said "dont care"....Just stop carin if the nuggets is so inefficient, and so terrible of a team....Just ignore the nuggets, and wait for the season to begin to start criticizin them!! Because only then will you be able to measure how successfull or unsuccessfull this team really is, when it's back is to a corner with all the criticism.

BkOriginalOne
10-04-2008, 08:47 PM
No, because your takin my efficient term too literal like the other guy I explained.....Refer to my last post....I imply the efficient term as in, being able to produce, with or without waste!! And nuggets are capable to produce points.

How is it possible to take the term "efficient" too literal. What's the metaphorical or symbolic definition of that term that you're reachinf for. Effecient and Capable are too different words. They mean two different things.
One means, greatest production without waste. the other means, able to do something. What are you talking about?
You're making nuggets fans looks bad, man.
Yes, the nuggets need to be more defensive minded, but they also need to be more offensively efficient, they ARE already offensively capable. Two completely different ideas.
" I am an Efficient 3 point shooter" that means you make a good amount of the threes you make compared to the amount you take.
"I am a capable 3 point shooter" that means you can make a 3, CAN. ABLE TO.
Read a book or something.

BkOriginalOne
10-04-2008, 08:47 PM
I'm sorry, I had to post again. I just re-read what I quoted above, that man is ********.

SUNDUNDIDIT
10-04-2008, 09:17 PM
How is it possible to take the term "efficient" too literal. What's the metaphorical or symbolic definition of that term that you're reachinf for. Effecient and Capable are too different words. They mean two different things.
One means, greatest production without waste. the other means, able to do something. What are you talking about?
You're making nuggets fans looks bad, man.
Yes, the nuggets need to be more defensive minded, but they also need to be more offensively efficient, they ARE already offensively capable. Two completely different ideas.
" I am an Efficient 3 point shooter" that means you make a good amount of the threes you make compared to the amount you take.
"I am a capable 3 point shooter" that means you can make a 3, CAN. ABLE TO.
Read a book or something.



F$%# outta here...Since your so built on posting definitional terms, let me post SYNONYMS from a thesaurus....

Main Entry: efficient
Part of Speech: adjective
Synonyms: able, accomplished, adept, businesslike, capable, competent, consummate, dexterous, economic, effective, effectual, efficacious, expeditious, expert, ingenious, organized, potent, productive, professional, proficient, skillful



Now another definiton term..


efficient adjective
1. performing or functioning in the best possible manner with the least waste of time and effort; having and using requisite knowledge, skill, and industry; competent; capable: a reliable, efficient secretary.
2. satisfactory and economical to use: Our new air conditioner is more efficient than our old one.



^^As you can hopefully comprehend...There are different variations on how the word efficient can be utilized...You on the other hand, read one definition and take what I say too "LITERALLY", by not considering the other usages the word can take into effect.

cmellofan15
10-04-2008, 09:41 PM
Sundundidit you are a dimwit.

You can argue every point with every person that posts a response, it shows your just as confused as your team is when they try to play defense.

Let your team show their greatness on the court, oops I forgot their just great on paper. YOUR OWN WORDS

I dont think you could count your balls and get the same number twice

One more thing, the only way your team will learn how to play defense is if you can catch a genie in a bottle and make him give you three wishes and use all three!!!

But they still beat out the Blazers for the Playoffs didn't they :eyebrow:

Your team has made the Playoffs 0 times since Carmelo has been drafted, and 0 times with Nate McMillan. So let your team just win 50 games or so or even be 2nd in the division (like that will ever happen). But you as a Blazer fan have no room to talk about defense, offense, or anything about the Nuggets.

Hope it was fun watching your team earn the Big 9 last year!

and PS with the three wishes we'd probably lend to the teams who can't make the Playoffs like the Blazers and let them wish for some kind of help.

DenButsu
10-04-2008, 09:46 PM
Well, for what it's worth, here's what George Karl thinks (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=278592) about all of this.

Key passage:


How you teach the game as a coaching staff sometimes subconsciously allows the team that your coaching to develop a mentality. Offense, I think in some ways, is softer than defense. I'm not saying we're soft, but I think at times last year we tried to outshoot, outscore and outrun. I think this year we're going to try to keep the good stuff of our offense and incorporate some of the toughness of defense. I think as a coaching staff that excites us.

Over the last two years me and the coaching staff tried to coach the game with the mentality of scoring, playing fast, kind of the Phoenix Suns' mentality. Learning how to attack, attack, attack is how we taught the game, but we feel that we have to change our mindset to at least move in to the top-half of the defensive teams in basketball.

Last year if I had to evaluate our defense after film studying this summer, a lot of our bad defense was created by our bad shot-selection. Our offensive personality has to have more responsibility. And the second thing is the commitment to run back and play transition defense.

He seems to be suggesting that both the offense and defense were inefficient, and that the inefficiency of each contributed to that of the other. I don't think this settles any of the arguments here, but thought it was worth noting.

DenButsu
10-04-2008, 09:47 PM
And EVERYBODY needs to stop with personal insults, or infractions will be coming. Disagree and debate all you want, but please follow the site rules.

blazerman
10-04-2008, 10:42 PM
And yours was flawed also....Detroit scored less because they don't have 2 of the highest scoring players in the NBA...bLAH blah!!

Detroit was better, because they had a better defense...It's easy comprehension.




And you are a nitwit...I'm justified in my views, and I back up my opinion because I know it's thought out!!

And yeah my teams one of the best on paper, thanks for statin the obvious of my past comments....

But your team is non-existant....It's all speculation with whether your team will make the playoffs or not.....Nuggets have made the playoffs, and the fact people rank Portland[An unproven contender] over the nuggets, just proves they have plain hate for the nuggets!!


Like someone else said "dont care"....Just stop carin if the nuggets is so inefficient, and so terrible of a team....Just ignore the nuggets, and wait for the season to begin to start criticizin them!! Because only then will you be able to measure how successfull or unsuccessfull this team really is, when it's back is to a corner with all the criticism.

Poeple dont always see things the same way and others will defend something they care about at all costs.

Were boths fans of different teams, but at the same time we both want the same thing, our teams to be successful.

I really dont think your team is bad at all, but there are improvements that can be make (my team also). I know that if Im reading something negative about my team, somethings can get me fired up, but sometimes it's better to just let it go.

I only hammered on the Nuggs to get you riled up kinda like you were doing to others with your replies, I will apoligize for my rudeness toward you.

blazerman
10-04-2008, 11:05 PM
But they still beat out the Blazers for the Playoffs didn't they :eyebrow:

Your team has made the Playoffs 0 times since Carmelo has been drafted, and 0 times with Nate McMillan. So let your team just win 50 games or so or even be 2nd in the division (like that will ever happen). But you as a Blazer fan have no room to talk about defense, offense, or anything about the Nuggets.

Hope it was fun watching your team earn the Big 9 last year!

and PS with the three wishes we'd probably lend to the teams who can't make the Playoffs like the Blazers and let them wish for some kind of help.

Everyboby knows we were in the rebuilding the last 5yrs and yes we did suck, but Im not talking about last yr. Its pretty sad that you have 2 past olympians on your team and you get past the first rd and since Anthony has been in the league thats been your M.O. every yr.

In the past Portland has won a championship,been to the west finals at least 6 times and had one of the longest playoff streaks of alltime 80's and 90's, but thats the past so who gives a s**t.

Your team will wont even see the big 9 this yr

Hawkeye15
10-04-2008, 11:07 PM
Blazers will be better than Denver this season. For sure.

cmellofan15
10-04-2008, 11:13 PM
Blazers will be better than Denver this season. For sure.

Yea so will the T'Wolves :rolleyes:

I GUARANTEE the Blazers won't be better...

Maybe it's the homerism in me but it won't happen dude...

cmellofan15
10-04-2008, 11:18 PM
Everyboby knows we were in the rebuilding the last 5yrs and yes we did suck, but Im not talking about last yr. Its pretty sad that you have 2 past olympians on your team and you get past the first rd and since Anthony has been in the league thats been your M.O. every yr.

In the past Portland has won a championship,been to the west finals at least 6 times and had one of the longest playoff streaks of alltime 80's and 90's, but thats the past so who gives a s**t.

Your team will wont even see the big 9 this yr

What has Portland proven? That they can have a hurt big man? That they can have ONE all-star?

It's pretty sad everybody says they're so good and so talented. And you wanna talk about the first round? Blazers haven't made there in 5 years and haven't made it out of there in 8. So it seems like the Blazers have more first round trouble than we do. We'll see this season if they can actually make it past Golden State. And you guys are still the worse team from last season so you still have NO room to talk.

ragee
10-04-2008, 11:42 PM
giving away Camby is one of the most stupid things a GM can do... They won't go under the salary cap coz they still have Melo and AI... Right? Or am I wrong?

Chronz
10-04-2008, 11:59 PM
And yours was flawed also....Detroit scored less because they don't have 2 of the highest scoring players in the NBA...bLAH blah!!
Incorrect, Detroit scored less because they played the slowest pace in the league but they were a better offensive team because they took care of the ball and they shot around the same eFG% but the difference was the Pistons had players who could rebound any misses that allowed them to dictate the tempo and slow the game down to get another high quality attempt.



Detroit was better, because they had a better defense...It's easy comprehension.
No Detroit was ELITE because they had better defense and better offense as they ranked in the top 6 in both offensive and defensive efficiency. Denver ranked 11th and and 10th respectively though their defensive efficiency was further away from average their offense wasnt necessarily GREAT.


So again what flaws can you point out?

dee279
10-05-2008, 12:03 AM
To be real i dont really care for the Nuggets, the Heat is my team, but i feel for Nuggets fans because fo one AI should be the starting point guard no matta how much he shoots, he still gets almost 8 assist. Also J.R. Smith should be starting for shooting Guard, Carmello at the 3 Nene at the 4 and Camby should still be the 5 but uhh we all know how dat worked out and gettin tinsley is stoopid to me because it uses some of the 10 million trade exception that they got for giving away Camby and i do mean Giving away so yeah dey way confused

Kohaku
10-05-2008, 12:31 AM
Nuggets FO confuzzled =/.

Hawkeye15
10-05-2008, 02:14 AM
Yea so will the T'Wolves :rolleyes:

I GUARANTEE the Blazers won't be better...

Maybe it's the homerism in me but it won't happen dude...

agree to disagree. I am indifferent to either team, so I am calling it how I see it with no bias. I think Portland passes Denver this year. I don't think the Wolves do. Not until next season

BkOriginalOne
10-05-2008, 05:53 AM
To be real i dont really care for the Nuggets, the Heat is my team, but i feel for Nuggets fans because fo one AI should be the starting point guard no matta how much he shoots, he still gets almost 8 assist. Also J.R. Smith should be starting for shooting Guard, Carmello at the 3 Nene at the 4 and Camby should still be the 5 but uhh we all know how dat worked out and gettin tinsley is stoopid to me because it uses some of the 10 million trade exception that they got for giving away Camby and i do mean Giving away so yeah dey way confused

Allen Iveron can't start at point guard. He is offense, he can't run one.
While he does get 8 assists per game, that doesn't mean he can run an offense, he still get's about 3.5 turnovers and thats not productive enough to be a pg.
Currently, in the assist to turnover category, AI ranks 40th.

DenButsu
10-05-2008, 06:07 AM
As far as Denver/Portland goes, I feel very good about the Nuggets finishing ahead of the Blazers in the NW. If the Nuggets slip at all, I don't think it will be more than 3 wins (to 47 from 50), and even if the Blazers are better, which they may well be, I don't see them building a whole lot on their win total from last season, and certainly not 7 games (from 41 to 48). I still firmly believe they were a true sub-40 team that overachieved record-wise due to a single mid-season hot streak.

Denver is still the superior team until proven otherwise, and I don't see that happening this season.

valade16
10-05-2008, 06:44 AM
What has Portland proven? That they can have a hurt big man? That they can have ONE all-star?

It's pretty sad everybody says they're so good and so talented. And you wanna talk about the first round? Blazers haven't made there in 5 years and haven't made it out of there in 8. So it seems like the Blazers have more first round trouble than we do. We'll see this season if they can actually make it past Golden State. And you guys are still the worse team from last season so you still have NO room to talk.

Here's something you should know (and yes, I feel you are so dimwitted I have to tell you this), last year was LAST YEAR. Did The Celtics, Heat, and Hornets teach you NOTHING last year?

Now, as hard as it is to believe, teams don't have to perform at the same level they did the previous season, it's called change, and considering how much of it there was in the NBA this offseason, I hope you can understand that the League might not have an identical standing finish as LAST YEAR.

Also, while your Nuggets have become progressively more of an afterthought, the Blazers have been stocking up young talent, and have what is widely considered a great young core of players. Wanna hear a scary fact? The last 3 seasons, the REBUILDING Blazers have produced more wins from the previous season. 21 to 32 to 41, I'm trying to find a reason they won't do the same again.

Meanwhile your Nuggets have bounced around the same number of wins since 04-05 (49,44,45,50), not doing ANYTHING in the playoffs, and hitting what I like to call a Glass Ceiling. And with the removal of your only player who even thinks about defense, coupled with the expanded role of J.R. Smith (considering the positives he brings to the table are the mirror image of what Iversone or Melo brings, why even bother?), I don't think your suddenly going to burst through the ceiling...

Also, while someone pointed out that the Blazers have shown they can field an injured Center I'd like to take this opportunity show their hypocrisy by pointing out the Nuggets are leaving their Frontcourt in the hands of NENE and KENYON MARTIN...

bigmac8675
10-05-2008, 06:54 AM
coo coo for coco puffs

:laugh: haha....

Faneik
10-05-2008, 06:59 AM
As far as Denver/Portland goes, I feel very good about the Nuggets finishing ahead of the Blazers in the NW. If the Nuggets slip at all, I don't think it will be more than 3 wins (to 47 from 50), and even if the Blazers are better, which they may well be, I don't see them building a whole lot on their win total from last season, and certainly not 7 games (from 41 to 48). I still firmly believe they were a true sub-40 team that overachieved record-wise due to a single mid-season hot streak.

Denver is still the superior team until proven otherwise, and I don't see that happening this season.


Well, no one can read the future, but my guess is you're going to be surprised on that one...

DenButsu
10-05-2008, 07:58 AM
No. All the people saying the Nugs won't make the playoffs will, though.

TheFuture6
10-05-2008, 08:06 AM
We shall just wait and see, won't we.

That's all there really is to it at this point.

JayW_1023
10-05-2008, 08:18 AM
I'm sceptic about the Nuggets...they lost their best defensive player to what was already a very questonable defense, and they lost Najera too, their most physical defender...expect what you expect, but realize that scepticism is pretty much natural if you review their offseason.

DenButsu
10-05-2008, 08:31 AM
There would be less skepticism if anybody actually bothered to dig beneath the triply mistaken "Denver, the worst defensive team in the NBA, gave away their best defensive player for nothing" cliche.

But nobody does.

JayW_1023
10-05-2008, 08:36 AM
I think if J.R. Smith developes into an elite scorer...I think Denver has a could chance of being a lower playoff seed. But here you have three players that need the ball in their hands to be effective. The talent level isn't the issue...it's about sharing the ball.

Balkman was a good pickup however, New York was dumb to let him go. He is a great hustle guy...could definitely become a great defender someday.

BkOriginalOne
10-05-2008, 09:21 AM
You guys are assuming that nuggets lost camby for nothing. They got financial flexibilty and were able to aquire some players which makes them a much deeper team. The nuggets had two problems last season, offense: times where they just jacked up shots, or ran too many plays for carmelo. And defense, which was less about their efforts and more about the PHYSICAL mismatches (people don't take that into consideration) The nuggets had awkaward heights and lengths for the postions they were trying to defend.

Carter is about 6'2 195
Allen is about 6'0 180
Melo is 6'8 230
Kmart is 6'9 240
Nene is 6'11 250

See any problems? Yeah, anyone whose about 6'3- to about 6'7 is most likely too big for allen iverson or carter to guard and too fast for melo.
How do they match up with the lakers?
Fisher 6'3, Kobe 6'7, Odom was like 6'10 Gasol 7'0 Vlad 6'11, Walton 6'8
Celtics?
Rondo 6'1 Allen 6'5, pierce 6'7-8 KG 7'0 Perkins 6'11

Those are were the two best teams in the their respective conference. How they hell are they supposed to guard these lineups. Karl's best bet was to throw in guys like Kleiza, Najera, Jr Smith. Problems? Klezia is about 6'8 245 (too slow to guard the quicker guards). Same problem with najera. Smith is the right size, but not big enough to guard the ones who can just post him up.

Solution? Lose camby and najera. Get under the cap and fix these wholes, because in their eyes, nene is a starting center and he is. He's not going to get the blocks camby did, but thats because he is not a help defender like that. Camby's numbers were high because the nuggets made gambles on D and allowed Camby to have lots of opps to clean up. Nene is a much better one-on-one defender (maybe one of the best non all-star or premier D players, i've seen guard Duncan)

Bottom Line. Losses: Camby, Najera.
Gains: Balkman 6'8 208
Chris Anderson 6'10 228
Matten Cleaves 6'2 188
Nick Fazekas 6'11 235
Juwan Howard 6'9 253 (veteran presence)
Dahntay Jones 6'6 210
James Mays 6'9 225
Smush Parker 6'4 190
Ruben Patterson 6'5 223
Sonny Weems 6'6 203
Any 6 of these players came back the team (5 if they don't complete the tinsley trade tomorrow). Of this group: anderson, howard, jones, ruben, balkman, parker and weems have the most chance.
(I'm worried about smush though. Him and JR or AI in the backcourt could either be really good or reealy bad.)

Chronz
10-05-2008, 03:43 PM
Here's something you should know (and yes, I feel you are so dimwitted I have to tell you this), last year was LAST YEAR. Did The Celtics, Heat, and Hornets teach you NOTHING last year?

Now, as hard as it is to believe, teams don't have to perform at the same level they did the previous season, it's called change, and considering how much of it there was in the NBA this offseason, I hope you can understand that the League might not have an identical standing finish as LAST YEAR.

Also, while your Nuggets have become progressively more of an afterthought, the Blazers have been stocking up young talent, and have what is widely considered a great young core of players. Wanna hear a scary fact? The last 3 seasons, the REBUILDING Blazers have produced more wins from the previous season. 21 to 32 to 41, I'm trying to find a reason they won't do the same again.

Meanwhile your Nuggets have bounced around the same number of wins since 04-05 (49,44,45,50), not doing ANYTHING in the playoffs, and hitting what I like to call a Glass Ceiling. And with the removal of your only player who even thinks about defense, coupled with the expanded role of J.R. Smith (considering the positives he brings to the table are the mirror image of what Iversone or Melo brings, why even bother?), I don't think your suddenly going to burst through the ceiling...

Also, while someone pointed out that the Blazers have shown they can field an injured Center I'd like to take this opportunity show their hypocrisy by pointing out the Nuggets are leaving their Frontcourt in the hands of NENE and KENYON MARTIN...
Hey you just gave me a great topic to research, thanks bro

cmellofan15
10-05-2008, 06:59 PM
Here's something you should know (and yes, I feel you are so dimwitted I have to tell you this), last year was LAST YEAR. Did The Celtics, Heat, and Hornets teach you NOTHING last year?

Now, as hard as it is to believe, teams don't have to perform at the same level they did the previous season, it's called change, and considering how much of it there was in the NBA this offseason, I hope you can understand that the League might not have an identical standing finish as LAST YEAR.

Also, while your Nuggets have become progressively more of an afterthought, the Blazers have been stocking up young talent, and have what is widely considered a great young core of players. Wanna hear a scary fact? The last 3 seasons, the REBUILDING Blazers have produced more wins from the previous season. 21 to 32 to 41, I'm trying to find a reason they won't do the same again.

Meanwhile your Nuggets have bounced around the same number of wins since 04-05 (49,44,45,50), not doing ANYTHING in the playoffs, and hitting what I like to call a Glass Ceiling. And with the removal of your only player who even thinks about defense, coupled with the expanded role of J.R. Smith (considering the positives he brings to the table are the mirror image of what Iversone or Melo brings, why even bother?), I don't think your suddenly going to burst through the ceiling...

Also, while someone pointed out that the Blazers have shown they can field an injured Center I'd like to take this opportunity show their hypocrisy by pointing out the Nuggets are leaving their Frontcourt in the hands of NENE and KENYON MARTIN...

They need to do some more rebuilding unless they wanna keep watchin the Nuggets on t.v. :eyebrow:

And last year they weren't rebuilding and they weren't even considered to be in the playoff race. And even though the Nuggets have all these bad things they still manage to be better than Blazers.


And BTW Nene and Martin aren't out overhyped Centers. They're PF's buddy.

SUNDUNDIDIT
10-05-2008, 07:50 PM
BLAZERS need to prove themselves....Until then, how the hell could anybody rule out a team with Carmello,A.I.,J.R.,and Kenyon out of the playoff race????

What the hell has Blazers shown, bsides bein a team that hasn't made the playoffs in a couple of year????

To me?? Nuggets seem to be better then last year, and more focused on what needs to be done! Until Blazers prove otherwise, they aren't beatin out the nuggets for the playoffs...Get yall mind right!

DenButsu
10-05-2008, 09:09 PM
Running with the passage highlighted by Chronz (and I'll admit, it appears impressive at a glance)...


Wanna hear a scary fact? The last 3 seasons, the REBUILDING Blazers have produced more wins from the previous season. 21 to 32 to 41, I'm trying to find a reason they won't do the same again.

Okay, here's a reason:

The higher the previous win total gets, the exponentially harder it gets to increase it. That's just my impression, but I think it's true.

First of all, improving on a 21 win season is something akin to Sarah Palin exceeding expectations at the debate - ain't exactly a monumental accomplishment. Now, I'll concede that improving it by 11 wins and breaking into the 30s is more meaningful, and that's a significant improvement. And by that measure repeating that feat and breaking into the 40s is a big deal.

But I've said this before (maybe even in this thread) and I'll say it again: I'm absolutely NOT convinced that the Blazers were a genuine 40-win team last year. They had that great winning streak in the middle of the season when they got hot, but you know, sometimes a team just catches fire for a while. I still think they overachieved and exceeded their more natural (lower/sub .500) level of play in that time, and so the record stands at 41 in 07-08, but to me it's a bit of an artificial inflation. (I do not believe, for example, that they were any better than the Kings, who won 38).

But looking ahead to this season, then, in my mind for Portland to hold steady at 41 would still mark an improvement, especially considering that there should be a pretty major period of adjustment at the beginning as they work Oden into the system. And I'm not going to review their schedule last season and analyze it in depth. But if you just take even a quick look at the splits from last season (http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/tsplit.cgi?team=POR&year=2008), you can see they went 28-13 at home, but 13-28 on the road. So if you think they're winning 9 more games this season, you either have to believe that they'll turn overnight into a Utah-style "elite at home" team, or (more realistically) you'll have to admit they'll need to find a way to win 9 more games on the road (or at least 7 away and 2 at home, or something comparable).

Another telling split is the pre/post All-Star break, and this is one that really solidly supports my contention that their big win streak was a feat of overachievement:


Split Value G W L %
All-Star Pre 52 28 24 .538
Post 30 13 17 .433

They surged for a bit mid-season, but they finished soft, and that's the point from where they'll pick up the pieces.

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edit---

I don't think I was totally clear about the initial point I was trying to make, which is that winning more games in a season gets exponentially more difficult the higher the win total gets. The basic reason why I think this is the case is that you must win more games on the road and you must win more games against teh upper echelon teams in the NBA, including elite teams.