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Kiss Ma Grits
09-30-2008, 06:40 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=An6qlY1oFgMAUx5zc8wYHXy8vLYF?slug=ap-lebronsgoal&prov=ap&type=lgns



NDEPENDENCE, Ohio (AP)—LeBron James keeps his Olympic gold medal in his

home office, and from time to time Cleveland’s star takes a peek at it.



“It’s a pretty sight,” he said.



James spent part of his summer helping the U.S. basketball team redeem its

global superiority by winning it all at the Beijing Games. At just 23, he was

the undisputed leader of that 12-player squad comprised of superstar talents and

supersized egos.



“If you can lead 11 of the best guys in the world, you can lead anybody,”

James said Monday. “If I can lead Kobe Bryant and MVPs, I should be able to

lead Daniel Gibson.”



James has visions of another exquisite, glittering prize—the NBA

championship trophy. And he thinks it’s within the Cavaliers’ reach.



“As a leader, I think I can lead these guys to the championship,” he said.

“We really believe that. It’s not about making the playoffs for our team

anymore. It’s about winning a championship.”

















The Cavaliers have come close. Two years ago, they made their first trip to

the finals before being overwhelmed and swept in four straight by the San

Antonio Spurs. Last season, they pushed the eventual champion Boston Celtics to

seven games in the Eastern Conference semifinals but lost.



This year, the Cavs, who acquired point guard Mo Williams this summer in a

trade from Milwaukee, feel they can finish the job.



“We all have one goal, and that’s a championship,” said Williams, who

averaged 17.2 points, 6.3 assists and 3.5 rebounds for the Bucks. “That’s the

goal, and we’re not just talk. Every team in the league on media day is saying

they are going to win a championship. But we’re confident. We know that if we

put in the work and focus, we can do it. It’s all we talk about.”



On the eve of opening training camp, Cleveland is already in better shape

than it was at the same point last year.



On Media Day 2007, two key players—forwards Anderson Varejao and Sasha

Pavlovic— were in the early stages of contract holdouts that would carry on for

weeks. Guard Eric Snow had just injured his knee during an off-season workout

and was set for surgery, and guard Damon Jones used his first opportunity to

meet with reporters to say he wanted to be traded.



It was hardly an idyllic start to camp, and the trouble carried over into

the regular season.



The Cavaliers started out struggling and at the Feb. 21 trading deadline,

general manager Danny Ferry turned over half his active roster.



The hope is continuity will replace chaos this time.



“There’s not much of an excuse now,” James said. “We have guys that can

go out and play. Mo can dominate a game. We all know what I can do on the court.

We had guys hold out for personal reasons last year. We had guys who were here,

but not mentally here. It’s just a different feeling.”



James, too, has a different aura about him as he enters his sixth season as

a pro.



In many ways, he’s still a kid. As he sat down to field questions, James

tore open a bag of candy to snack on before posing for photographers who

politely asked him to smile while demanding he hold a basketball every way its

humanly possible. At one point, Varejao interrupted one session and stood next

to his teammate wearing an “I’m With Stupid” T-shirt.





Cleveland Cavaliers' LeBron Ja…
AP - Sep 29, 6:26 pm EDT




James seems to have already developed a strong bond with Williams, who

scored a season-high 37 points against the Cavaliers last season.



“Mo Williams is an unbelievable talent,” James said. “You can watch any

film of what he did to us last year in four games. It was like, ‘Wow, he either

has something against us or he’s sending up smoke signals to go get him in a

trade.”



Williams is the best point guard Cleveland has had since James arrived, and

with him on the floor, the Cavs should be able to play at a faster pace than in

previous years.



“He can allow me to play off him,” James said. “I don’t have to bring the

ball up as much. I’m going to emphasize on just running the floor a lot. You

look at me in the summer time, when I’m playing with great point guards like

Jason Kidd and Deron Williams and Chris Paul. For the most part, you just see me

run the floor. It’s easy for me. Now with Mo Williams here and Delonte (West)

and Boobie (Gibson), I can do that. I can get out on the break.”



James can’t seem to get a break from the endless speculation that he intends

to leave Cleveland as a free agent when his contract runs out in two years. But

he has also fueled that by constantly wearing a New York Yankees cap and

expressing his loyalty to the pinstripers, as well as the Dallas Cowboys.



James wishes all the talk would stop.



“I’ve never given no indication I was leaving Cleveland,” James said. “I

never gave any indication I didn’t like being here, every time I’m asked that

question. I love being here. I love playing in front of these fans. My family is

here. I grew up 30 miles away from here. I’ve never given any indication that I

did not like playing for the Cleveland Cavaliers. Now I did say I like the

Yankees and the Cowboys. It has nothing to do with the Cavaliers.”



James smiled as he again explained his allegiance to out-of-town teams, a

fact that rubs some Cleveland fans the wrong way.



“Am I not allowed to be a fan of what team I want?” he said “When I grew

up watching sports, the Cowboys were the team to love. If I say I like Michael

Jordan, is that a problem? If I didn’t say (Cavaliers All-Star) Mark Price, is

that a problem? Is it? That’s who I grew up watching. These are the teams and

people who inspired me when I was growing up.



“I have now broken it down for all of you.”

JayW_1023
09-30-2008, 10:00 AM
I think it'd be wise for Cleveland to stop acting paranoïd whenever LeBron feels like wearing a Yankees cap or Cowboys jersey. The irony really is that all the talk about LeBrons disloyalty is actually making LeBron leaving Cleveland more likely. Moronic fans.

mfudge
09-30-2008, 10:09 AM
i like how he thinks he lead kobe bryant and other MVPs. i think it was the other way around. he was the centerpiece of the team that won lebronze. it wasn't until they added these MVPs that people really took them seriously.

JayW_1023
09-30-2008, 10:15 AM
Kobe was the main defensive catalyst on the perimeter and used as a stationary shooter off the ball. LeBron was more a finisher and facilitator with Team USA. They both did their part with equal importance.

Vidball
09-30-2008, 10:37 AM
LeBron was definitely a leader--I wouldn't ever say he led guys like Kobe & Kidd though...lol. They don't need too much direction from a 23 year old. :D

It was pretty cool to see how LeBron led Kobe to his 12 fourth quarter points and four-point play that bailed out Team USA in the gold medal game.:eyebrow:

cmstophe
09-30-2008, 11:09 AM
Lebron was the vocal leader of team usa, easily.

Kobe led by example.

DreamShaker
09-30-2008, 04:47 PM
LeBron was definitely a leader--I wouldn't ever say he led guys like Kobe & Kidd though...lol. They don't need too much direction from a 23 year old. :D

It was pretty cool to see how LeBron led Kobe to his 12 fourth quarter points and four-point play that bailed out Team USA in the gold medal game.:eyebrow:

That was one game....and Wade was the best player in the tourney actually.....

Lebron23
09-30-2008, 06:18 PM
He's just motivating his teammates by saying that he can lead Z, Mo Williams, Anderson Varejao, Daniel Gibson, and Delonte West back in the Eastern Conference Finals.

LeBron probably was not probably prepared when the media interview him, and the first thing that came out to his mouth is being confident that he can lead the City of Cleveland back in the Promise Land.

When your leader and best player of the team is very optimistic that they will have a great season next year. It means that he will always play harder, and dedicated in improving the winning record of his team.

LeBron will always be the best player that ever played for the Cleveland Cavaliers, and he's just giving his honest opinion instead of acting like the puppet of David Stern.

Vidball
09-30-2008, 07:02 PM
That was one game....and Wade was the best player in the tourney actually.....

lol...yeah, what game was it? Are you kidding me :laugh:
I agree Wade did the best offensively in the tourney though.

ARMIN12NBA
09-30-2008, 08:21 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=An6qlY1oFgMAUx5zc8wYHXy8vLYF?slug=ap-lebronsgoal&prov=ap&type=lgns


“If you can lead 11 of the best guys in the world, you can lead anybody,”

James said Monday. “If I can lead Kobe Bryant and MVPs, I should be able to

lead Daniel Gibson.”


Lebron James is one of the most arrogant and self-centered NBA players that I have possibly ever seen. Why does this guy keep on insisting that he was the undisputed leader? It's pretty ridiculous. LOL @ the "If I can lead..." comment. Actually, Lebron, it is harder to lead scrubs to a ship than leading the best player in the world to a ship.

I like how Kobe, CP3, and Jason Kidd all answer the leadership question...With humility. They all insist that EVERYBODY had a part of leading the team. Whether it be Jason Kidd with his seniority or Kobe with his knack for amazing work ethic and getting to the gym the earliest or CP3's obvious floor general skills. They give out the props to pretty much everyone on the team while Lebron is pretty much about only himself.

Lebron should get a taste of some humble pie.

cmstophe
09-30-2008, 08:28 PM
All agreed that LBJ was their vocal leader. But keep hatin, doubt LBJ cares what you think. LBj continues to be one of the classiest superstars in the NBA- probably the classiest, actually. Unlike Kobe, he doesnt whine for trades. Unlike Wade, he doesnt bash other markets and act like a punk. LBJ abd Paul are two classy cats IMO

Lebron23
09-30-2008, 08:31 PM
Tim Duncan was the leader of the 2004 Olympic Team, and he should be blame because of his inconsistency.

Thank God that he was never invited to join the redeem team because he plainly sucks in the FIBA Competition.

23LBJCleBrowns
09-30-2008, 08:44 PM
Lebron James is one of the most arrogant and self-centered NBA players that I have possibly ever seen. Why does this guy keep on insisting that he was the undisputed leader? It's pretty ridiculous. LOL @ the "If I can lead..." comment. Actually, Lebron, it is harder to lead scrubs to a ship than leading the best player in the world to a ship.

I like how Kobe, CP3, and Jason Kidd all answer the leadership question...With humility. They all insist that EVERYBODY had a part of leading the team. Whether it be Jason Kidd with his seniority or Kobe with his knack for amazing work ethic and getting to the gym the earliest or CP3's obvious floor general skills. They give out the props to pretty much everyone on the team while Lebron is pretty much about only himself.

Lebron should get a taste of some humble pie.


Your going to say that LeBron is Self-centered and Arrogant. You only cut out that part of the Interview he gives props to other people. So your going to tell me Kobe isn't Self-centered. Have you seen him play basketball, have you heard him talk. He doesn't pass and he talks ****. LeBron is a leader, more of a leader than Kobe. kobe didn't get his team to the finals three years in a row and win all those, that was all Shaq. But LeBron got us to the finals by himself and passing the ball to teammates and spreading out the floor. LeBron is not self-centered give me more evidence then just you cutting out part of an interview.

ARMIN12NBA
09-30-2008, 08:59 PM
Your going to say that LeBron is Self-centered and Arrogant. You only cut out that part of the Interview he gives props to other people. So your going to tell me Kobe isn't Self-centered. Have you seen him play basketball, have you heard him talk. He doesn't pass and he talks ****. LeBron is a leader, more of a leader than Kobe. kobe didn't get his team to the finals three years in a row and win all those, that was all Shaq. But LeBron got us to the finals by himself and passing the ball to teammates and spreading out the floor. LeBron is not self-centered give me more evidence then just you cutting out part of an interview.

He doesn't pass the ball? That is why he averages more assists in the triangle than MJ....

Give me evidence of that. According to Coach K and Jerry Colangelo, Kobe Bryant and Jason Kidd are the leaders...Not LBJ. The only person who considers LBJ the leader...is LBJ himself. :laugh2:

That was only Shaq? Kobe was EXTREMELY important to the Lakers success. The EXACT year that Kobe became a top player in the NBA, the Lakers started winning ships. Before Kobe became a top player, the Lakers were losing every single year. (BTW--don't bring up Lebrons 45 point game in double OT in the ECF...Kobe had a 45 points, 10 rebound game in regulation in the WCF...)

Lebron got the Cavs to the Finals? HAHAHAHAHA. Against a Wiz without Caron or Gilbert and against a horrible Nets team. He averaged 25 PPG on 41% shooting in that playoffs. That is hardly by himself considering all the help he got by Boobie Gibson.

Lebron spread the floor? Lebron shot 28% from three in those playoffs...Nothing need more to be said.

Kobe also got a team to the Finals "by himself" in the WESTERN CONFERENCE! He averaged 30 PPG on 48% shooting and actually managed to win a game in the Finals. Unlike Lebron. BTW--Kobe dominated the Spurs while shooting over 50%. Lebron shot 35% against the Spurs...Mhm.

cmellofan15
09-30-2008, 09:04 PM
Lebron James is one of the most arrogant and self-centered NBA players that I have possibly ever seen. Why does this guy keep on insisting that he was the undisputed leader? It's pretty ridiculous. LOL @ the "If I can lead..." comment. Actually, Lebron, it is harder to lead scrubs to a ship than leading the best player in the world to a ship.

I like how Kobe, CP3, and Jason Kidd all answer the leadership question...With humility. They all insist that EVERYBODY had a part of leading the team. Whether it be Jason Kidd with his seniority or Kobe with his knack for amazing work ethic and getting to the gym the earliest or CP3's obvious floor general skills. They give out the props to pretty much everyone on the team while Lebron is pretty much about only himself.

Lebron should get a taste of some humble pie.

WOW :speechless:

I can't believe he took credit for leading the USA TEAM!!!!! I don't care it's the East or West All-Stars but this is a whole freakin country we're talking about! He's not Michael Phelps he didn't single handidly do anything that had to do with leading. That was Coach K's team, HE LEAD THEM!, and he wasn't even the most important player let alone the leader.

Lebron23
09-30-2008, 09:08 PM
Paul Gasol and Lamar Odom > Whole Cleveland Cavaliers Roster expect for LBJ

Phil Jackson > Mike Brown

But the Cavaliers have an 8th game winning streak against the Los Angeles Lakers in the regular season, and The Boston Celtics especially a 21 yrs.old Sophomore Rajon Rondo kick Kobe's @$$ in game 6 of the NBA Finals.

Kobe had a horrible performance in the NBA Finals, and the Kobephiles always blame his talented teammates.

cmstophe
09-30-2008, 09:44 PM
He doesn't pass the ball? That is why he averages more assists in the triangle than MJ....

Give me evidence of that. According to Coach K and Jerry Colangelo, Kobe Bryant and Jason Kidd are the leaders...Not LBJ. The only person who considers LBJ the leader...is LBJ himself. :laugh2:

That was only Shaq? Kobe was EXTREMELY important to the Lakers success. The EXACT year that Kobe became a top player in the NBA, the Lakers started winning ships. Before Kobe became a top player, the Lakers were losing every single year. (BTW--don't bring up Lebrons 45 point game in double OT in the ECF...Kobe had a 45 points, 10 rebound game in regulation in the WCF...)

Lebron got the Cavs to the Finals? HAHAHAHAHA. Against a Wiz without Caron or Gilbert and against a horrible Nets team. He averaged 25 PPG on 41% shooting in that playoffs. That is hardly by himself considering all the help he got by Boobie Gibson.

Lebron spread the floor? Lebron shot 28% from three in those playoffs...Nothing need more to be said.

Kobe also got a team to the Finals "by himself" in the WESTERN CONFERENCE! He averaged 30 PPG on 48% shooting and actually managed to win a game in the Finals. Unlike Lebron. BTW--Kobe dominated the Spurs while shooting over 50%. Lebron shot 35% against the Spurs...Mhm.

You're right, Lebron sucks, even if he does single-handedly lead his team out of the first round every year. In all seriousness, you know you're good when people hate on you this much.

Just to compare Kobe and Lebron (since thats what this has become obviously):

Kobe- 30 years old?
Lebron- 23 years old

Hmm.

Vidball
09-30-2008, 10:27 PM
Kobe 3 rings, 5 conference championships
LeBron 0 rings, 1 conference championship

Hmm.

Lebron23
09-30-2008, 10:30 PM
3 Rings with the Most Dominant Player in the history of the NBA.

0 Finals MVP

DODGERS&LAKERS
09-30-2008, 11:15 PM
He doesn't pass the ball? That is why he averages more assists in the triangle than MJ....

Give me evidence of that. According to Coach K and Jerry Colangelo, Kobe Bryant and Jason Kidd are the leaders...Not LBJ. The only person who considers LBJ the leader...is LBJ himself. :laugh2:

That was only Shaq? Kobe was EXTREMELY important to the Lakers success. The EXACT year that Kobe became a top player in the NBA, the Lakers started winning ships. Before Kobe became a top player, the Lakers were losing every single year. (BTW--don't bring up Lebrons 45 point game in double OT in the ECF...Kobe had a 45 points, 10 rebound game in regulation in the WCF...)

Lebron got the Cavs to the Finals? HAHAHAHAHA. Against a Wiz without Caron or Gilbert and against a horrible Nets team. He averaged 25 PPG on 41% shooting in that playoffs. That is hardly by himself considering all the help he got by Boobie Gibson.

Lebron spread the floor? Lebron shot 28% from three in those playoffs...Nothing need more to be said.

Kobe also got a team to the Finals "by himself" in the WESTERN CONFERENCE! He averaged 30 PPG on 48% shooting and actually managed to win a game in the Finals. Unlike Lebron. BTW--Kobe dominated the Spurs while shooting over 50%. Lebron shot 35% against the Spurs...Mhm.

Ouch! Dont hurt em too much.

Lakersfan2483
09-30-2008, 11:48 PM
I don't mind Lebron saying he took an active role in leadership during the US Olympic games, but I do take exception to the fact that he said, If I can lead Kobe and MVPs to the Gold, I can lead the Cavs.... Lebron was not the only leader on that team. Kidd was a leader, Kobe, it was a team game. No player was the clear leader on that team. Kidd, Kobe, Lebron, CP3 were all active leaders.

Lebron is a great player, but he's starting to believe his own press. Just play basketball Bron. Don't start acting as if you are the greatest of all time.

Lakersfan2483
09-30-2008, 11:49 PM
I don't remember MJ, Magic, Kobe, Kidd making those type of statements after the Olympic games.

pete_one
09-30-2008, 11:51 PM
LeBron James will win an NBA CHAMPIONSHIP before his career is over. trust!

Lakersfan2483
09-30-2008, 11:51 PM
3 Rings with the Most Dominant Player in the history of the NBA.

0 Finals MVP

Lebron is a great player man, but you can't discredit Kobe. He was a huge part of LA winning titles, No Kobe, no titles. Shaq was the 1st option, but Kobe was great during the playoffs. His numbers speak volumes as to what type of player he was for LA.

Lakersfan2483
09-30-2008, 11:53 PM
LeBron James will win an NBA CHAMPIONSHIP before his career is over. trust!

I believe he will win a title or more. He is a great player, no one is disputing that fact. I just disagree with him saying he was the leader of Team USA. He was one of the three main leaders. It was a group effort.

Vidball
09-30-2008, 11:59 PM
LeBron James will win an NBA CHAMPIONSHIP before his career is over. trust!

Kobe will probably have at least 5 or 6 before his career is over.

Vidball
10-01-2008, 12:01 AM
I don't mind Lebron saying he took an active role in leadership during the US Olympic games, but I do take exception to the fact that he said, If I can lead Kobe and MVPs to the Gold, I can lead the Cavs.... Lebron was not the only leader on that team. Kidd was a leader, Kobe, it was a team game. No player was the clear leader on that team. Kidd, Kobe, Lebron, CP3 were all active leaders.

Lebron is a great player, but he's starting to believe his own press. Just play basketball Bron. Don't start acting as if you are the greatest of all time.

He's just learning...no harm, no foul. The kid is only 23. He gives Kobe his props too--he's been calling him the best player in the game for a while now. He knows.

cmstophe
10-01-2008, 12:24 AM
He's just learning...no harm, no foul. The kid is only 23. He gives Kobe his props too--he's been calling him the best player in the game for a while now. He knows.

Correct, he has. Whenever asked, he says Kobe is the best. However:


Kobe 3 rings, 5 conference championships
LeBron 0 rings, 1 conference championship

Hmm.

You are a moron to even post this in response to what I said, and you know it. It plays right into exactly what I said, and proves my point that Kobe has been around much longer.

JMan17
10-01-2008, 12:35 AM
You are a moron to even post this in response to what I said, and you know it. It plays right into exactly what I said, and proves my point that Kobe has been around much longer.

oh really? lebron has been in the league for 5 years now going into his 6th year. when kobe won his first he was in the league for 4 years, and was 21 when he won it. he won 2 more titles at his 5th and 6th year, and was 23.

guess how old lebron is now and how many championships he has :speechless:

Vidball
10-01-2008, 12:37 AM
I won't get into the name calling--just not called for, but if you want to look at what Kobe accomplished by the time he was 23, you might be surprised (did you just start watching the NBA???).

cmstophe
10-01-2008, 12:37 AM
oh really? lebron has been in the league for 5 years now going into his 6th year. when kobe won his first he was in the league for 4 years, and was 21 when he won it. he won 2 more titles at his 5th and 6th year, and was 23.

guess how old lebron is now and how many championships he has :speechless:

When did Jordan win his first? Oh, his 7th year. Now you're not going to tell me Kobe is better than Jordan are you? I didn't think so. In fact this has nothing to do with which player is better. Just because Kobe whores off Shaq, that isn't why Kobe is a better player, just like if the roles were reversed it wouldn't mean Lebron is a better player.

cmstophe
10-01-2008, 12:39 AM
I won't get into the name calling--just not called for, but if you want to look at what Kobe accomplished by the time he was 23, you might be surprised (did you just start watching the NBA???).

See above.

EDIT: I know a ton of Kobe homers and I know how you guys can be, so I won't get deep into this.

Vidball
10-01-2008, 12:40 AM
Whenever asked, he says Kobe is the best.

Case and point.:clap:

cmstophe
10-01-2008, 12:42 AM
Case and point.:clap:

I'm not arguing who is the better player; I havent told you who I think is a better player. I am arguing that that is awful reasoning for saying one player is better than the other; how many "rings" they have. Very dumb reasoning.

Vidball
10-01-2008, 12:51 AM
Well, first you say you aren't arguing about who is better, then you say you are "arguing" about reasoning being used about who's better...sounds to me like you are arguing about who is better without picking a side. As for me--I side with LeBron himself (as well as just about anybody else that has spoken up on the subject in the NBA)--just like LeBron has said, Kobe is better.

Okay, how about this: he's a better mid-range shooter, better from the perimeter, better from the line, better with his off-hand, a better lock-down defender, better at altering passing lanes, a player with championship experience, etc etc etc

He's more experienced (yet still in his prime) and he's better on both ends of the court. I'm sure LeBron's leadership did wonders for Kobe.

SAVAGE CLAW
10-01-2008, 12:52 AM
I really LOVE how he braggs about leading team USA and lead Bryant.

Next time in the world championship of 2010 NO GOLD for Usa, These kind of declarations disrupt the chemistry.

Vidball
10-01-2008, 12:54 AM
I really LOVE how he braggs about leading team USA and lead Bryant.

Next time in the world championship of 2010 NO GOLD for Usa, These kind of declarations disrupt the chemistry.

The US would have got Gold without LeBron...they wouldn't have gotten it without Kobe or DWade.

SAVAGE CLAW
10-01-2008, 12:57 AM
Yes i Know, thats why its funny because this stupid words from him are going to create bad Charma inside Teams Usa locker room for the next time.

The more Ego Battles going on inside the team the more chances Spain beats them.

SAVAGE CLAW
10-01-2008, 12:58 AM
^Wich would have happened this summer if Lebron had said something so stupid 2 hours before the final, then Kobe or Wade woudl have hogged the ball and Spain would have won.

cmstophe
10-01-2008, 01:00 AM
Well, first you say you aren't arguing about who is better, then you say you are "arguing" about reasoning being used about who's better...sounds to me like you are arguing about who is better without picking a side. As for me--I side with LeBron himself (as well as just about anybody else that has spoken up on the subject in the NBA)--just like LeBron has said, Kobe is better.

Okay, how about this: he's a better mid-range shooter, better from the perimeter, better from the line, better with his off-hand, a better lock-down defender, better at altering passing lanes, a player with championship experience, etc etc etc

He's more experienced (yet still in his prime) and he's better on both ends of the court. I'm sure LeBron's leadership did wonders for Kobe.

You're right, I am arguing without picking a side. If you're going to argue that Kobe is better, at least talk about his game like you just did, not how many rings he has.

Personally, I think Kobe is a more complete player. However, many do believe LBJ is more dominant (he probably is). What that means...I don't know. However, I don't think Kobe is better at literally everything in the game (like you just listed).

cmstophe
10-01-2008, 01:01 AM
I really LOVE how he braggs about leading team USA and lead Bryant.

Next time in the world championship of 2010 NO GOLD for Usa, These kind of declarations disrupt the chemistry.

Let's wait until Kobe complains about it and not some hack on an Internet forum

Kiss Ma Grits
10-01-2008, 01:03 AM
Kobe better then Lebron??? Well lets talk facts folks

1. Kobe hasn't won ANY titles since Shaq has left
2. Kobe has only led his team out of the first round of the playoffs ONCE since Shaq was traded and that was this year.
3. Kobe DISAPPEARED against phoenix in a game 7 (A series in which he allowed his team to lose 4-3 after they led 3 games to 1).
4. Kobe DISAPPEARED against Detroit losing 4 games to 1 with a team that featured 3 count em 3 future hall of famers.
5. Shaq has won 4 nba titles and has been to the finals with every team he's been on except the Suns. Was Wade and KOBE key components to those championships? Of Course! Would they have those championships if not for Shaq? Nope! They sure haven't done anything without Shaq. Without Shaq, Wade has been to the playoffs only once (his rookie season) and Last year when Shaq appeared to had declined so did the Heat. Without Shaq, Kobe had missed the finals 2 out of 3 times and the one time they did make it (last year) They lost 4 games to 2 with game six being a TOTAL EMBARASSMENT to the history of Laker basketball!!!!!
6. Kobes 29 and without Shaq he's only won league MVP once (which goes to the best player on one of the winningest teams NOT to the best basketball player) and a gold medal. Lebron at the age of 23 already has won a league scoring title, all star mvp twice, has been selected to every allstar game but one (his rookie season), and like Kobe has an gold medal.
7. Lebron's stats (shooting pct, scoring average, rebounds, and assist) were better then Kobes in the olympic games. Don't believe me? Go look it up! I'll help you Laker fans out: Read it and weep!

scoring averages (top 3 leaders in each catagory)
ppg
Wade 16.0
Lebron 15.5
Kobe 15

fg% (top 3 leaders with at LEAST 45 fg attempts)
Wade .671 (2 pt fg); .471 (3 pt fg) ** leader
Lebron .602 (2 pt fg); .464 (3 pt fg) ** Top 3 leader
Kobe .462 (2 pt fg); .321 (3 pt fg)

Rebounding
Wade 4.0 average (4th best)
Lebron 5.3 average (3rd best)
Kobe 2.8 average (7th best)

Assist totals
Wade 15
Lebron 30 (2nd best)
Kobe 17


Blocks total
Wade 1
Lebron 8
Kobe 4

Steals total
Wade 18
Lebron 19
Kobe 9

Turnovers/fg attempts
Wade 13/70
Lebron 17/83
Kobe 15/104

http://www.usabasketball.com/seniormen/2008/stats/USA.HTM

Kobe was more of a leader then Lebron???? The stat sheet itself shows otherwise. Scoring leader of the team? Wade with Lebron in second. The player who led the three in the other intangibles? Lebron with Wade in Second

Lebron and Wade outshot, out rebounded, out assisted, and out defensed Kobe in every stat on their but the TURNOVER to SHOT ratio.

You guys are caught up in one game Laker fans but Wade and Lebron did it EVERY game. The stats say so not just me just incase you think I'm being biased. Show me some real Kobe facts that don't have to do with Shaq or what his team did.

Vidball
10-01-2008, 01:05 AM
Personally, I think Kobe is a more complete player. However, many do believe LBJ is more dominant (he probably is). What that means...I don't know. However, I don't think Kobe is better at literally everything in the game (like you just listed).

Not gonna argue it, just wondering what you think LeBron is better at out of the things I listed--I think Kobe has a clear advantage in each category--I do think LeBron is a better passer and rebounder, and there is no denying he's more athletic.

cmstophe
10-01-2008, 01:09 AM
Not gonna argue it, just wondering what you think LeBron is better at out of the things I listed--I think Kobe has a clear advantage in each category--I do think LeBron is a better passer and rebounder, and there is no denying he's more athletic.

He is the greatest driver of the basketball the world has ever seen. He's unstoppable.

I agree he is more athletic- by a mile, but that isn't really basketball "game". Rebounder? For sure. Passer? I agree.

SAVAGE CLAW
10-01-2008, 01:09 AM
Excuse mr, but who in hell did the ****ing Four Point play in the olympic final in a moment that Kryzeskys bollocks were near his troatt???

Vidball
10-01-2008, 01:11 AM
Kiss ma Grits...horrible post. If you know anything about the "Shaq" years in L.A. you know Kobe was the best player in 2 of the WCF's that the Lakers won. Kobe led them to the Finals in 2004 and Kobe was the reason they beat down Portland in game 7 in 2000. Kobe has been on all-defensive teams pretty much his whole career--defensively he is on a different level than LeBron. Offensively he's done things that nobody else besides Wilt has ever done. LeBron might get there someday, but I doubt it. I doubt his lockdown D will ever reach an elite status, I doubt his shooting abilities will ever allow him to do some of the things Kobe has done, and I doubt he'll get one ring before Kobe gets 2 or 3 more.

cmstophe
10-01-2008, 01:12 AM
Boy, this is going to get ugly.

I don't want to take sides, but some of you are really downplaying Lebron James' talent. Specifically you, Vidball. "Doubt he'll ever get there"? Are you serious? Do you realize the drive, the talent, the athleticism that this kid possesses?

His defense is on a different level? Lebron sure looked like a great defender in the playoffs last year. Not sure if you were watching; that was clearly an area he worked on, and he improves every year he is in the league.

People, take off the blinders, BOTH OF YOU. Quit making statements saying Lebron is so much better than Kobe- he isn't, yet. On the flipside, don't spew garbage like "He'll never be there" because he's already right up there.

I also guarantee James gets a ring before Kobe gets 2 more. Absolutely GUARANTEE.

Kiss Ma Grits
10-01-2008, 01:20 AM
Kiss ma Grits...horrible post. If you know anything about the "Shaq" years in L.A. you know Kobe was the best player in 2 of the WCF's that the Lakers won. Kobe led them to the Finals in 2004 and Kobe was the reason they beat down Portland in game 7 in 2000. Kobe has been on all-defensive teams pretty much his whole career--defensively he is on a different level than LeBron. Offensively he's done things that nobody else besides Wilt has ever done. LeBron might get there someday, but I doubt it. I doubt his lockdown D will ever reach an elite status, I doubt his shooting abilities will ever allow him to do some of the things Kobe has done, and I doubt he'll get one ring before Kobe gets 2 or 3 more.

Well why hasn't kobe done anything since shaq left?

And if Kobe is defensively better then Lebron why does Lebron average just as many steals and more blocks then Kobe? Isn't rebounding part of defense too? Because Lebron kills him in that stat too.

Offensively and Defensively, Lebron has the stats to back up what I'm stating. I can show you stats to back it up.

If Kobe's defense is so great then why did he allow his team to get their arse's handed to em against the Celtics? At least when Lebron and his boys were getting theirs handed to them by the Spurs, they held the spurs to under 90 points in three of those loses...

See you wanna talk about individual defense but stats suggest Lebron has more blocks, steals and rebounds then kobe AND his team plays better team defense so I ask you how important is kobes defensive play if the rest of his team doesn't play defense?

cmstophe
10-01-2008, 01:22 AM
Well, I think Kobe probably has better defensive intangibles at the moment. He is a little better on defense, but LBJ made *huge* progress defensively coming into the 2007-2008 campaign. And he will only be better this year....

LAcowBOMBER
10-01-2008, 01:23 AM
That was one game....and Wade was the best player in the tourney actually.....

The point was Lebron didn't lead Kobe. Wade was the best overall. Kobe set the tone though. Either way, Lebron didn't lead Kobe.

cmstophe
10-01-2008, 01:25 AM
The point was Lebron didn't lead Kobe. Wade was the best overall. Kobe set the tone though. Either way, Lebron didn't lead Kobe.

For the 3rd time, Lebron was the *clear* vocal leader of Team USA. He spoke on their behalf, he spoke in the huddle, he was the vocal leader. No, he wasn't the only leader, so he may be off base saying what he said but he's just rallying his troops.

Vidball
10-01-2008, 01:26 AM
Boy, this is going to get ugly.

I don't want to take sides, but some of you are really downplaying Lebron James' talent. Specifically you, Vidball. "Doubt he'll ever get there"? Are you serious? Do you realize the drive, the talent, the athleticism that this kid possesses?

His defense is on a different level? Lebron sure looked like a great defender in the playoffs last year. Not sure if you were watching; that was clearly an area he worked on, and he improves every year he is in the league.

People, take off the blinders, BOTH OF YOU. Quit making statements saying Lebron is so much better than Kobe- he isn't, yet. On the flipside, don't spew garbage like "He'll never be there" because he's already right up there.

I also guarantee James gets a ring before Kobe gets 2 more. Absolutely GUARANTEE.

That Guarantee is crap--Kobe is on the best team in the NBA...and the team is young. LeBron isn't even on a top 5 team. By the time Kobe was 23 he already had 2 All-defensive first teams and 2 All-defensive second teams...D isn't something you just pick up after 5 or 6 years down the road. Kobe got his first All-Defensive team when he was 20. LeBron will never be the defender Kobe is. Get over it.

Offensively, I think you are crazy if you think LeBron will ever do what Kobe did--things MJ didn't even do. Like I said, things nobody but Wilt has done. 81 points in a game. 62 in 3 quarters against a team that went to the Finals a few months later. 4 straight 50 point games. Most 3's ever made in a game (12). Most consecutive 3's in a game (9). No, I don't think LeBron will ever be there either.

So, you think at the end of the day LeBron will all of a sudden become a lockdown defender? You think he's "already right up there" and is polished enough offensively to do any of the things I mentioned in the previous paragraph?:no:

cmstophe
10-01-2008, 01:27 AM
That Guarantee is crap--Kobe is on the best team in the NBA...and the team is young. LeBron isn't even on a top 5 team. By the time Kobe was 23 he already had 2 All-defensive first teams and 2 All-defensive second teams...D isn't something you just pick up after 5 or 6 years down the road. Kobe got his first All-Defensive team when he was 20. LeBron will never be the defender Kobe is. Get over it.

Offensively, I think you are crazy if you think LeBron will ever do what Kobe did--things MJ didn't even do. Like I said, things nobody but Wilt has done. 81 points in a game. 62 in 3 quarters against a team that went to the Finals a few months later. 4 straight 50 point games. Most 3's ever made in a game (12). Most consecutive 3's in a game (9). No, I don't think LeBron will ever be there either.

So, you think at the end of the day LeBron will all of a sudden become a lockdown defender? You think he's "already right up there" and is polished enough offensively to do any of the things I mentioned in the previous paragraph?:no:

Oh dear. I almost stopped reading at "best team in the NBA". Didn't we learn our lesson 3 months ago? I'd take the Cavs in a playoff series anyways; Lakers play garbage defense compared to the Cavs and the Celtics (already proven)

Personally, I think *you* need to "get over" the fact that Lebron James is an unreal talent that will most likely be a top 3 player of all time. If not better.

I think it's funny how Kobe is sooooooooo much better than Lebron and nobody, not even MJ are as good as Kobe, yet Lebron beats Kobe in head to head matchups....?

You're just a huge Kobe homer, and that's fine. I love Kobe. He's a great baller. But get over the fact that LBJ is right there with him, they are the two best players in the NBA and Lebron is still much younger and less experienced. Just live with it.

LAcowBOMBER
10-01-2008, 01:28 AM
Well why hasn't kobe done anything since shaq left?

And if Kobe is defensively better then Lebron why does Lebron average just as many steals and more blocks then Kobe? Isn't rebounding part of defense too? Because Lebron kills him in that stat too.

Offensively and Defensively, Lebron has the stats to back up what I'm stating. I can show you stats to back it up.

If Kobe's defense is so great then why did he allow his team to get their arse's handed to em against the Celtics? At least when Lebron and his boys were getting theirs handed to them by the Spurs, they held the spurs to under 90 points in three of those loses...

See you wanna talk about individual defense but stats suggest Lebron has more blocks, steals and rebounds then kobe AND his team plays better team defense so I ask you how important is kobes defensive play if the rest of his team doesn't play defense?

1. The Spurs don't score alot
2. Stats don't make a great defensive player. You can shutdown a player defensively and still not have an impressive stat line.
3. Bynum being back will help with the Lakers' D

Kiss Ma Grits
10-01-2008, 01:29 AM
Hey Laker fans, individual defense doesn't mean ***** if the rest of your team doesn't play it which is why I'm scratching my head to why people even picked the Lakers to win it all this year. They don't play good team defense. Yeah they can score but they'll end up like the Suns: a very big disappointment. Kobe's defense better then Lebron's? Well the Cavs faired better defensively against the champs then the Lakers did....

LAcowBOMBER
10-01-2008, 01:31 AM
The lakers went to the finals with their defense and that was without Bynum. Say what you want about him, but you can't deny that the Lakers are better defensively with him.

Vidball
10-01-2008, 01:32 AM
Well why hasn't kobe done anything since shaq left?
Kobe did as much this season as LeBron has done his whole career. MVP and led his team to the Finals (to go along with an All-Defensive first team honor).


And if Kobe is defensively better then Lebron why does Lebron average just as many steals and more blocks then Kobe? Isn't rebounding part of defense too? Because Lebron kills him in that stat too.

Wow...guess you know more than all the coaches that voted for Kobe year after year as an All-Defensive player. Guess you know more than Coach K too--I wonder why LeBron didn't guard the opposing teams top players. Wow...you should be an NBA coach. If you are going with blks/stls as your barometer for D, I guess Bruce Bowen and Shane Battier are WAY overrated and Josh Smith is about the best the game has to offer us--heck, Josh Smith must be one of the best defenders EVER!

cmstophe
10-01-2008, 01:33 AM
Hey Laker fans, individual defense doesn't mean ***** if the rest of your team doesn't play it which is why I'm scratching my head to why people even picked the Lakers to win it all this year. They don't play good team defense. Yeah they can score but they'll end up like the Suns: a very big disappointment. Kobe's defense better then Lebron's? Well the Cavs faired better defensively against the champs then the Lakers did....

Cavs swept the Lakers under the rug too...but that's only regular season which is irrelevent. Still worth noting LBJ won both matchups against Kobe, too.

cmstophe
10-01-2008, 01:34 AM
Hey Vid, what's your beef with Lebron? or do you just have that big of a woody for Kobe?

Vidball
10-01-2008, 01:36 AM
Oh dear. I almost stopped reading at "best team in the NBA". Didn't we learn our lesson 3 months ago?

Just about every analyst thinks otherwise...thats not being a homer, thats being realistic. If Vegas has you as the favorites, if ESPN has you the favorites by a LANDSLIDE--its not really worth arguing with you I guess. You haven't even gotten the memo that the Lakers are the favorites this year. You should run off to Vegas and put some $ down on LeBron...you would make a killing if the Cavs won :D

cmstophe
10-01-2008, 01:37 AM
Just about every analyst thinks otherwise...thats not being a homer, thats being realistic. If Vegas has you as the favorites, if ESPN has you the favorites by a LANDSLIDE--its not really worth arguing with you I guess. You haven't even gotten the memo that the Lakers are the favorites this year. You should run off to Vegas and put some $ down on LeBron...you would make a killing if the Cavs won :D

I probably would!

Then again, pretty sure most people picked the Lakers to beat the Celtics last year :clap:

I mean, ESPN says so- THE LAKERS MUST BE A LOCK!

Vidball
10-01-2008, 01:38 AM
Hey Vid, what's your beef with Lebron?

I don't have one. He's the 2nd best player in the game. Whats your beef with Kobe? Why didn't you respond to my post that shot you down about how Kobe is better on both ends of the court than LeBron?

LAcowBOMBER
10-01-2008, 01:41 AM
I probably would!

Then again, pretty sure most people picked the Lakers to beat the Celtics last year :clap:

I mean, ESPN says so- THE LAKERS MUST BE A LOCK!

Favorite and LOCK are different things

Vidball
10-01-2008, 01:41 AM
I probably would!

Then again, pretty sure most people picked the Lakers to beat the Celtics last year :clap:

I mean, ESPN says so- THE LAKERS MUST BE A LOCK!

You acted like it was ridiculous of me to call the Lakers the best team when everyone is picking them as the favorites. I don't know if you are up on sports "lingo", but favorites=most likely to win. Me saying the Lakers are the best isn't absurd--your response was. They are recognized by most as the best (now that Drew is back in the lineup and Ariza & Pau are on the team for a full season).

cmstophe
10-01-2008, 01:42 AM
I don't have one. He's the 2nd best player in the game. Whats your beef with Kobe? Why didn't you respond to my post that shot you down about how Kobe is better on both ends of the court than LeBron?

I responded to every post you made so far- I think you need to go back and read, because you haven't shot down anybody from what I've seen. I've seen nothing but stats from Kiss, and all you do is brag about Kobe's Defensive achievements. :clap:

I have nothing against Kobe. I already said I love Kobe, and that he's a more complete player, but that it's a product of experience and being in the game longer than Lebron.

LBJ will get his. He will be the best player in the league, he will be a "lockdown" defender (this doesn't really exist in the NBA, kind of like a shutdown corner doesnt exist in the NFL), he is already the leading scorer...not Kobe.

Hard to argue with that. But according to you, Lebron will never be as good as Kobe.

cmstophe
10-01-2008, 01:42 AM
You acted like it was ridiculous of me to call the Lakers the best team when everyone is picking them as the favorites. I don't know if you are up on sports "lingo", but favorites=most likely to win. Me saying the Lakers are the best isn't absurd--your response was. They are recognized by most as the best (now that Drew is back in the lineup and Ariza & Pau are on the team for a full season).

It's ridiculous when you just got schooled 3 months ago after touting your team, and now you're touting it again.

Vidball
10-01-2008, 01:42 AM
Favorite and LOCK are different things

Don't even try to teach this guy sports "lingo". He's struggling with offense/defense concepts still.

cmstophe
10-01-2008, 01:44 AM
Don't even try to teach this guy sports "lingo". He's struggling with offense/defense concepts still.

There's the typical "veiled insult" comment. I was waiting for it. I'll skip the foreplay and just straight up call you an incoherent moron who doesn't have the faintest idea what the hell he's talking about; furthermore, you are the epitome of a Lakers homer who will ride Kobe's bone until the day he dies, and if anybody DAAAAARES to say that Lebron James is "up there" with Kobe, or that LBJ will be better than Kobe, or GOD FORBID!!!!! is already better than Kobe...well, Lord help them.

Quit being a twat.

LAKERS 24/7
10-01-2008, 01:45 AM
Lebron is a great player. At this rate he might become top 5 all time, top 10 for sure. However, at this point in their careers, Kobe is better than Lebron.

No doubt Lebron's overall numbers are better, because he has the ball in his hands most of the game, whereas Kobe allows his teammates to do their 'thang' while he chooses his spots. Not saying one is necessarily better than the other, its probably because Kobe has better players offensively. Lebron however, has a very underrated defensive team.

My personal belief is that Kobe is a better rebounder than Lebron. His numbers aren't better because he's a 2 guard and plays further away from the basket than Lebron, and also because he's played with some great rebounders: Shaq and Lamar (great rebounder for a 4). When the lakers were plagued with injuries and Kobe was forced play the 3 for a few games, he got 10+ rebounds like 5 straight games. I've heard Phil Jackson also say Kobe is the better rebounder.

Vidball
10-01-2008, 01:45 AM
By the time Kobe was 23 he already had 2 All-defensive first teams and 2 All-defensive second teams...D isn't something you just pick up after 5 or 6 years down the road. Kobe got his first All-Defensive team when he was 20. LeBron will never be the defender Kobe is. Get over it.

Offensively, I think you are crazy if you think LeBron will ever do what Kobe did--things MJ didn't even do. Like I said, things nobody but Wilt has done. 81 points in a game. 62 in 3 quarters against a team that went to the Finals a few months later. 4 straight 50 point games. Most 3's ever made in a game (12). Most consecutive 3's in a game (9). No, I don't think LeBron will ever be there either.

So, you think at the end of the day LeBron will all of a sudden become a lockdown defender? You think he's "already right up there" and is polished enough offensively to do any of the things I mentioned in the previous paragraph?:no:

You didn't respond to any of this.

cmstophe
10-01-2008, 01:48 AM
Yes I did. You just missed it because I edited my post like 5 times (a habit of mine) and kept adding onto it as new stuff popped into my head.


Oh dear. I almost stopped reading at "best team in the NBA". Didn't we learn our lesson 3 months ago? I'd take the Cavs in a playoff series anyways; Lakers play garbage defense compared to the Cavs and the Celtics (already proven)

Personally, I think *you* need to "get over" the fact that Lebron James is an unreal talent that will most likely be a top 3 player of all time. If not better.

I think it's funny how Kobe is sooooooooo much better than Lebron and nobody, not even MJ are as good as Kobe, yet Lebron beats Kobe in head to head matchups....?

You're just a huge Kobe homer, and that's fine. I love Kobe. He's a great baller. But get over the fact that LBJ is right there with him, they are the two best players in the NBA and Lebron is still much younger and less experienced. Just live with it.


I dont even know what we're arguing at this point. We both agree Kobe is a more complete player at this point in their respective careers. I think we're arguing because you seem to think LBJ will never amount to anything as great as Kobe, but I'm not even sure. If that's what you're saying, it's pretty lame and I'll argue that all day long, but who knows at this point?

Vidball
10-01-2008, 01:51 AM
You still didn't respond to any of it...you just ranted about something else again. Gay.

cmstophe
10-01-2008, 01:55 AM
You still didn't respond to any of it...you just ranted about something else again. Gay.

"Gay"? You're kidding, right? What are you, 13? Come on, now. :)

What do you want me to say to it? I don't even know what we're arguing about at this point. You're clearly a massive Kobe homer that refuses to admit anybody, even MJ, is as great as Kobe. This is ridiculous.

LAKERS 24/7
10-01-2008, 01:57 AM
Now: Kobe>Lebron

Later: Kobe?Lebron

?=no one knows

cmstophe
10-01-2008, 01:58 AM
Sounds good

Vidball
10-01-2008, 01:59 AM
??? Just making stuff up again....MJ>Kobe>LeBron. I thought using the word "gay" would do a smiley face (like the one in your previous post).

cmstophe
10-01-2008, 02:00 AM
??? Just making stuff up again....MJ>Kobe>LeBron. I thought using the word "gay" would do a smiley face (like the one in your previous post).

Not sure what that means about the gay comment, but okay.

Anywho, I think we're done here. LAKERS24/7 summed it up nicely. Kobe now, who knows in the future.

Vidball
10-01-2008, 02:01 AM
I can live with that...who knows, Coby Karl may be the next MJ.

DODGERS&LAKERS
10-01-2008, 02:02 AM
Well why hasn't kobe done anything since shaq left?

And if Kobe is defensively better then Lebron why does Lebron average just as many steals and more blocks then Kobe? Isn't rebounding part of defense too? Because Lebron kills him in that stat too.

Offensively and Defensively, Lebron has the stats to back up what I'm stating. I can show you stats to back it up.

If Kobe's defense is so great then why did he allow his team to get their arse's handed to em against the Celtics? At least when Lebron and his boys were getting theirs handed to them by the Spurs, they held the spurs to under 90 points in three of those loses...

See you wanna talk about individual defense but stats suggest Lebron has more blocks, steals and rebounds then kobe AND his team plays better team defense so I ask you how important is kobes defensive play if the rest of his team doesn't play defense?

Your obviously a stats geek so let me enlighten you a little.

Getting a lot of steals does not mean you are a good defender. Allen Iverson gets a lot of steals but everyone knows he is a horrible defender.

And if Lebron did not get more rebounds than Kobe playing as a small forward while Kobe is playing a shooting guard, something would be really wrong. You do know that small forwards generally play closer to the rim than a SG would right? If a shooting guard is grabbing around 8 rebounds a game, he is out of place and more than likely costing his team by chasing a good stat line.

Kobe has been voted on all defensive teams since he was 20 years old. That is not a biased vote made by fans, writers or even biased posters on PSD. The coaches nominate those players. And the next defensive 1st 2nd or 3rd team Lebron makes will be his first.

You say Lebron is a better defender cause his team plays better defense??? Having Ben Wallace who is in the league only because he can play defense would help. Big Z is also a very tall and strong center who plays good post defense. West is above average defender. Wally is adequate. Kobe had soft Gasol at center. Lamar Odom has never left his feet on defense, Vladimir Radmonivich will not be mistaken for Bruce Bowen anytime soon. D Fish is a very good defender even if he is vertically challenged. Phil Jackson is known to practice offense for 3 hours while telling the team to play defense, "just try to keep your man in front of you. Mike Brown is a well known defensive coach.

And lastly, saying Kobe has not done anything since Shaq left is pretty ignorant. He has won 2 scoring titles, all defensive teams, an MVP, an all star MVP, gotten to he finals, dragged a starting lineup of Kwame Brown, Lamar Odom, Luke Walton and Smush Parker to a 45 win season and 2 playoff births. He was the main reason the Lakers were able to get to the finals. He was the go to guy in the fourth quarter because it was suicide to throw the ball into Shaq in the 4th. He was the only wing defender the Lakers had. In the finals, he chased around Reggie Miller, Allen Iverson and Jason Kidd the whole series. That might be a factor in a player not shooting a great % on the offensive end. Shaq should have dominated the offensive numbers. He played both ends of the floor against Rik Smits:rolleyes: Dikembe Mutumbo:rolleyes: and Todd Mcchallah:puke:

Hope that clears up your obvious misconceptions. Maybe you should look a little deeper into the stats than what a second grader would do.......3>2

Vidball
10-01-2008, 02:07 AM
:clap::clap::clap:
but, but, but, LeBron blocks more shots...:bla:

DreamShaker
10-01-2008, 02:17 AM
lol...yeah, what game was it? Are you kidding me :laugh:
I agree Wade did the best offensively in the tourney though.

I'm not saying Kobe had a bad Olympics....i'm just saying he didn't carry Lebron....

Leftcoast_yg
10-01-2008, 02:18 AM
My grandpas uncle who was friends with my cousins third best friend whose boyfriends mom had a sister who had an ex husband told his wifes niece who is from cleveland told me that he is making accounts on PSD and posting for to support lebron but i told the niece who told her aunts husband who told his sisters mom who told her sons girlfriend who told my cousin who told my grandpas uncle that "hey guess what? Lebron's fans are still losing the argument....lol j/k.....let the players do the talking instead of the opinions cuz opinions are only peoples views of situations and or things, and only lead to argument, useless arguments and on paper is where you will find the truth, read it.......love you guys....Lakers 2009 champs
P.s. props to horry1ur....

mfudge
10-01-2008, 02:18 AM
:clap::clap::clap:
but, but, but, LeBron blocks more shots...:bla:

yea, and he scores more points. :rolleyes:

Vidball
10-01-2008, 02:24 AM
Fudgepacker always walks in on discussions late and never reads previous posts.
DreamShaker-I agree with you 100% on your point.

mfudge
10-01-2008, 03:09 AM
Fudgepacker always walks in on discussions late and never reads previous posts.
DreamShaker-I agree with you 100% on your point.

******. i was being sarcastic. maybe that guy was right. maybe u are a moron.

JayW_1023
10-01-2008, 05:48 AM
I've been absent here for three months...it's still same old, same old around here...many discussions turning into Kobe vs. LeBron/Wade/T-Mac/Pierce/Manu debating...

Lakersfan2483
10-01-2008, 06:23 AM
Your obviously a stats geek so let me enlighten you a little.

Getting a lot of steals does not mean you are a good defender. Allen Iverson gets a lot of steals but everyone knows he is a horrible defender.

And if Lebron did not get more rebounds than Kobe playing as a small forward while Kobe is playing a shooting guard, something would be really wrong. You do know that small forwards generally play closer to the rim than a SG would right? If a shooting guard is grabbing around 8 rebounds a game, he is out of place and more than likely costing his team by chasing a good stat line.

Kobe has been voted on all defensive teams since he was 20 years old. That is not a biased vote made by fans, writers or even biased posters on PSD. The coaches nominate those players. And the next defensive 1st 2nd or 3rd team Lebron makes will be his first.

You say Lebron is a better defender cause his team plays better defense??? Having Ben Wallace who is in the league only because he can play defense would help. Big Z is also a very tall and strong center who plays good post defense. West is above average defender. Wally is adequate. Kobe had soft Gasol at center. Lamar Odom has never left his feet on defense, Vladimir Radmonivich will not be mistaken for Bruce Bowen anytime soon. D Fish is a very good defender even if he is vertically challenged. Phil Jackson is known to practice offense for 3 hours while telling the team to play defense, "just try to keep your man in front of you. Mike Brown is a well known defensive coach.

And lastly, saying Kobe has not done anything since Shaq left is pretty ignorant. He has won 2 scoring titles, all defensive teams, an MVP, an all star MVP, gotten to he finals, dragged a starting lineup of Kwame Brown, Lamar Odom, Luke Walton and Smush Parker to a 45 win season and 2 playoff births. He was the main reason the Lakers were able to get to the finals. He was the go to guy in the fourth quarter because it was suicide to throw the ball into Shaq in the 4th. He was the only wing defender the Lakers had. In the finals, he chased around Reggie Miller, Allen Iverson and Jason Kidd the whole series. That might be a factor in a player not shooting a great % on the offensive end. Shaq should have dominated the offensive numbers. He played both ends of the floor against Rik Smits:rolleyes: Dikembe Mutumbo:rolleyes: and Todd Mcchallah:puke:

Hope that clears up your obvious misconceptions. Maybe you should look a little deeper into the stats than what a second grader would do.......3>2

Great response, could not have said it better myself. People underrate what Kobe did for LA's winning 3 straight titles. A lot of misinformed, casual b-ball fans who don't know the game.

Side note: Why does a thread always turn into a kobe vs. Lebron debate?

RapsGuy23
10-01-2008, 07:59 AM
Lebron certainly isn't lacking confidence...but thats LBJ for you. Is Mo Williams the caliber of player that can "take over a game"??? The numbers look nice but other than that I don't know much about him. The Cavs will be chapionship contenders despite have a less than stellar lineup...LBJ is just that good. He can win games by himself, period. Time will tell

Vidball
10-01-2008, 08:36 AM
******. i was being sarcastic.

Sorry...my bad. I don't know what I was thinking. :shrug:

Lebron23
10-01-2008, 12:35 PM
Kobe is just an average defender, and how come he's one of the best defenders in the NBA, when Paul Pierce and Rajon Rondo abused him in the NBA Finals.

Battier is a better defender than Kobe, but he was not included in the NBA All Defensive First Team.

23LBJCleBrowns
10-01-2008, 12:52 PM
This is becoming into another Kobe vs. LeBron arguement. This thread is about what LeBron said. LeBron has Confidence, he is NOT being self-centered. Confidence is something you need to be good in the NBA.