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69centers
09-22-2008, 11:33 PM
If Cassel is in there the entire year, no way we make the playoffs. It's a throwaway season if they leave him in. Any other team in the NFL would have made a move to put someone in better than Cassel by now. He's a joke to the fans, and he's wasting our time. Yes, the defense played horrible, but c'mon, would you be pumped up having to keep going back onto the field after crap 3 and outs because your QB is dreadful?

If they don't get a QB in there after the bye week, I'm not watching. Thankfully, the Bruins and Celtics are starting up soon anyway. I won't miss the Pats much, but I'll be damned if I'm going to waste my Sundays watching a guy who never had a real starting QB job in his life. Any other team's quarterback in the league makes for better viewing than Cassel. He's an outright humiliation to Pats fans and the butt of jokes of every other team's fan in the league. The guy will never be anything better than a backup.

The Intimidator
09-23-2008, 12:44 AM
Good, I hope you don't watch. True fans support their team through thick and thin. We have been spoiled over the last 7 years.

DaaBoTownSox
09-23-2008, 06:31 AM
Good, I hope you don't watch. True fans support their team through thick and thin. We have been spoiled over the last 7 years.

Well said,. And on top of that, I don't see why everyone is on Cassell. The blame can be put on the D (if we are talking about last game) just as much as Cassell.

bagwell368
09-23-2008, 08:31 AM
The reason is "Boston sports fan neurosis" which started among Red Sox fans sometime in the 70's - probably about '73.

People need to get a grip as in - "If Cassel wasn't the best QB available for this week's game, why would BB start him?" You think BB is taking millions on the side to throw the season? Or did you not actually bother to think it through and just decided to blow your angst over everyone here? I vote for choice #2.

ERLynx
09-23-2008, 09:27 AM
If Cassel is in there the entire year, no way we make the playoffs. It's a throwaway season if they leave him in. Any other team in the NFL would have made a move to put someone in better than Cassel by now. He's a joke to the fans, and he's wasting our time. Yes, the defense played horrible, but c'mon, would you be pumped up having to keep going back onto the field after crap 3 and outs because your QB is dreadful?

If they don't get a QB in there after the bye week, I'm not watching. Thankfully, the Bruins and Celtics are starting up soon anyway. I won't miss the Pats much, but I'll be damned if I'm going to waste my Sundays watching a guy who never had a real starting QB job in his life. Any other team's quarterback in the league makes for better viewing than Cassel. He's an outright humiliation to Pats fans and the butt of jokes of every other team's fan in the league. The guy will never be anything better than a backup.


See you when the bandwagon swings back around.

ZHawk1123
09-23-2008, 10:27 AM
We'll have a good draft pick...

Lauranitis and Mayo sounds nice...

The Intimidator
09-23-2008, 10:56 AM
We'll have a good draft pick...

Lauranitis and Mayo sounds nice...

So what, are you giving up too?

Wake's Fastball
09-23-2008, 11:15 AM
I'd argue Cassel's play certainly isn't going to get us over the hump or anything, but we're still entirely capable of making the playoffs with him starting for us.

Crickr
09-23-2008, 11:17 AM
It doesn't matter if the Pats make it to the playoffs or not . It really is just a game and lots of things happen to derail any team. I for one have watched the Pats in many lean years when they were cellar dewellers and I have joyed to watch them be top dogs. I will continue to watch them and root for them no matter what happens ,but all of you have to remember it is just a game it really means nothing in the scope of the real world.

ZHawk1123
09-23-2008, 11:22 AM
So what, are you giving up too?

No... I am just saying... If he thinks we are gonna suck... We'll end up with a good draft pick...

I like to see the bright side of things...

69centers
09-23-2008, 12:20 PM
Good, I hope you don't watch. True fans support their team through thick and thin. We have been spoiled over the last 7 years.

No, we don't have to, not when the team doesn't support us. You got Bill and company not making any kind of a QB move that will support a winning team. It's a slap in the face to fans who pay a ton for parking, seats, drinks, etc to go see the game, and see a guy who wasn't good enough to get professional football starting job his entire life. You've also got cry babies like Ellis Hobbs who question why fans were so quick to boo them on Sunday. Well, maybe because it was the most humiliating loss since Gillette opened, and the team did not look motivated in the least. You get a better QB out there, and it does support the defense, by keeping them off the field, and by letting them know their job means something by keeping the other team at bay, knowing a good offense will step in a score points. Sorry, this one can't. Field goals are about all we can score right now. Team MVP right now is Gostowski.

I'd be right behind the team if Brady was in there and we started the season at 1-5, or if they brought Joey Harrington in and we started 1-8, but at least we'd know the team was trying, the leadership and owners were trying their best to fulfill the definition of a competitive team. Anyone who thinks this team is competitive with Cassel at the helm is kidding themselves.

Hometeamrivals
09-23-2008, 12:22 PM
You can't put the whole blame on Cassel because even with Brady they wouldn't have won. Their defence didn't should up

Hometeamrivals
09-23-2008, 12:25 PM
Good, I hope you don't watch. True fans support their team through thick and thin. We have been spoiled over the last 7 years.

Your right on this one. Look I'm a dolphins fan so the last few 7 years have been rather tough.:speechless:

Corey
09-23-2008, 12:33 PM
No, we don't have to, not when the team doesn't support us.

What? Honestly, what do you really expect the FO to do that's going to be a serious improvement over Cassel? Bring in Culpepper? Garcia? Sims? It won't make a difference. Bottom line is: we sucked against the Dolphins, and everyone's ready to jump ship.

Brady's had a bad game before too.

Eventhough Cassel isn't the best player in the world, the Pats are still more than capable of being successful with him starting behind center.

bagwell368
09-23-2008, 01:19 PM
Joey Harrington? Oh my god! You can't be serious, what has he done?

I guess its like a deck of cards to you. You figure we had an ace in Brady - OK logic so far. You fear Cassel is a 3. Well, he might be, but to assume Garcia or Harrington are 9's and come in here and start after 2 weeks and do better is absurd.

Reducto absurdum. It's Latin for you have reduced the argument to the point of absurdity.

Can we agree the Favre is quite good? Well, what's he done with what 5-6 weeks on NY? They dumbed down the plays for him, he looks confused, makes bad throws. That guy is a 1st ballot HOF. So somehow Garcia is the answer. Your wish that it be true doesn't make it true. I wish Brady was never hurt, we were 3-0, and the PF and PA was 128 to 23. I wish somebody would hand me 2 million dollars tax free - doesn't mean it will happen....

69centers
09-23-2008, 04:43 PM
Joey Harrington? Oh my god! You can't be serious, what has he done?

I guess its like a deck of cards to you. You figure we had an ace in Brady - OK logic so far. You fear Cassel is a 3. Well, he might be, but to assume Garcia or Harrington are 9's and come in here and start after 2 weeks and do better is absurd.

Reducto absurdum. It's Latin for you have reduced the argument to the point of absurdity.

Can we agree the Favre is quite good? Well, what's he done with what 5-6 weeks on NY? They dumbed down the plays for him, he looks confused, makes bad throws. That guy is a 1st ballot HOF. So somehow Garcia is the answer. Your wish that it be true doesn't make it true. I wish Brady was never hurt, we were 3-0, and the PF and PA was 128 to 23. I wish somebody would hand me 2 million dollars tax free - doesn't mean it will happen....

Um, no I wasn't serious, and if you read my post correctly, you'd know that. I was merely using it as a point, as a what if scenario. A what if scenario that I would have stood behind if they did it. I certainly don't want Harrington if we were looking for someone else, but at least it would have showed some sense of urgency in winning this season.

Yes, like Favre, any new QB to a team needs time to adjust, so that's why they should have been looking for someone by the end of the day that Tom went down. Supposedly, at that time, they were meeting with a few QB's on Monday, but whoever had the idea to ditch that plan and stick with Cassel is a complete moron.

The Intimidator
09-23-2008, 05:04 PM
No, we don't have to, not when the team doesn't support us. You got Bill and company not making any kind of a QB move that will support a winning team. It's a slap in the face to fans who pay a ton for parking, seats, drinks, etc to go see the game, and see a guy who wasn't good enough to get professional football starting job his entire life. You've also got cry babies like Ellis Hobbs who question why fans were so quick to boo them on Sunday. Well, maybe because it was the most humiliating loss since Gillette opened, and the team did not look motivated in the least. You get a better QB out there, and it does support the defense, by keeping them off the field, and by letting them know their job means something by keeping the other team at bay, knowing a good offense will step in a score points. Sorry, this one can't. Field goals are about all we can score right now. Team MVP right now is Gostowski.

I'd be right behind the team if Brady was in there and we started the season at 1-5, or if they brought Joey Harrington in and we started 1-8, but at least we'd know the team was trying, the leadership and owners were trying their best to fulfill the definition of a competitive team. Anyone who thinks this team is competitive with Cassel at the helm is kidding themselves.

You're not a true fan, and your true colors are showing now. One poor game and you bring this up. What were you saying when they beat the Jets last week? If you can bring up one of your posts that said that we won't make the playoffs after the Jets game then you'll actually have some credibility here. And don't start with the "the team isn't trying" method either. All of us in this forum will remember what you said, and when we make the playoffs, I hope that you feel guilty while you're watching.

TheShowzOver
09-23-2008, 06:36 PM
Nobody is giving up, it's called common sense and right now Cassel sucks hard core and is not bringing this team anywhere. That doesn't mean he won't improve, i give him 1 more start to actually do something and then he's definitely just a scrub. He's already played worse than Brady has in 7 combined years and you can't deny that. Before you say i'm not a true fan either, i will be watching every game even if we go 2-14 from here out. I really don't care, true fans are fans that care. Not ones that just bank on the hopes of lightning striking twice, common sense tells me get a veteran and don't risk laying any more eggs with Matt Cassel, as tight as the AFC is going to get this year. Look at the Colts and the Chargers struggling and they are considered the 2 best teams in the AFC pretty much. What happens when they start to light it up? It's going to be no playoffs for us unless we shape up now

The Intimidator
09-23-2008, 06:57 PM
Nobody is giving up, it's called common sense and right now Cassel sucks hard core and is not bringing this team anywhere. That doesn't mean he won't improve, i give him 1 more start to actually do something and then he's definitely just a scrub. He's already played worse than Brady has in 7 combined years and you can't deny that. Before you say i'm not a true fan either, i will be watching every game even if we go 2-14 from here out. I really don't care, true fans are fans that care. Not ones that just bank on the hopes of lightning striking twice, common sense tells me get a veteran and don't risk laying any more eggs with Matt Cassel, as tight as the AFC is going to get this year. Look at the Colts and the Chargers struggling and they are considered the 2 best teams in the AFC pretty much. What happens when they start to light it up? It's going to be no playoffs for us unless we shape up now

You weren't saying any of this after the Jets game, were you? And good for you for saying that you will be watching every game. I was responding to the guy who said that he wasn't going to watch games for the rest of the season. That's who I was saying wasn't a true fan, not you. Stop being so defensive. And none of us were saying that we expect lightning to strike twice. Read any of my posts, and they talk about Cassel managing the offense and limiting mistakes being the key to victory, along with a good defense. Those things didn't happen in the last game, but you don't see me whining and complaining about how Cassel sucks and how we won't make the playoffs. Grow a pair, suck it up, and instead of pretending that you know more about football than the Patriots organization, just watch the games and hope for the best.

TheShowzOver
09-23-2008, 07:39 PM
You weren't saying any of this after the Jets game, were you? And good for you for saying that you will be watching every game. I was responding to the guy who said that he wasn't going to watch games for the rest of the season. That's who I was saying wasn't a true fan, not you. Stop being so defensive. And none of us were saying that we expect lightning to strike twice. Read any of my posts, and they talk about Cassel managing the offense and limiting mistakes being the key to victory, along with a good defense. Those things didn't happen in the last game, but you don't see me whining and complaining about how Cassel sucks and how we won't make the playoffs. Grow a pair, suck it up, and instead of pretending that you know more about football than the Patriots organization, just watch the games and hope for the best.

Of course, nobody is going to put Cassel down after the Jets game even though he was terrible. That's just not the logical thing to do, but he sucked worse against the Dolphins and with how badly the Defense played it was magnified x10. Your points are really null and void to me, when is a fan ever going to complain when things are going good, does that make sense to you? Didn't think so

The Intimidator
09-23-2008, 07:59 PM
Of course, nobody is going to put Cassel down after the Jets game even though he was terrible. That's just not the logical thing to do, but he sucked worse against the Dolphins and with how badly the Defense played it was magnified x10. Your points are really null and void to me, when is a fan ever going to complain when things are going good, does that make sense to you? Didn't think so

16/23, 165 yards, and 0 interceptions. That's a passer rating of 90.0. That is what Cassel did in the Jets game. If you consider that sucking, than your standards for an NFL quarterback are way too high. Don't try to turn this around on me. You don't have an argument here. Was Cassel bad last game? Of course. But one game does not make a season. Let me remind you that you predicted a 45-3 win in the days before the game. Did you think that Cassel was a scrub then? You're so two-faced.

TheShowzOver
09-23-2008, 08:03 PM
16/23, 165 yards, and 0 interceptions. That's a passer rating of 90.0. That is what Cassel did in the Jets game. If you consider that sucking, than your standards for an NFL quarterback are way too high. Don't try to turn this around on me. You don't have an argument here. Was Cassel bad last game? Of course. But one game does not make a season. Let me remind you that you predicted a 45-3 win in the days before the game. Did you think that Cassel was a scrub then? You're so two-faced.

Look, if you're a quarterback in the NFL and you can't get the ball in the end zone then you suck. We aren't the Vikings we don't have AP to bail us out for a TD every trip down the field when our QB blows balls. And did you really think that 45-3 predicition was a serious one, i went out on a limb. On some slight hope that Matt Cassel would air the ball out to Moss and give us a chance to blow out a scrub Dolphins team. We played scared, we have been so far this year. And no it's not understandable i don't care who our QB is, when you have the best wide out in the league you have to take some chances i don't care if Ryan Leaf is under center for us, throw Moss the ball. Cassel backed up good quarterbacks in college, he had 4 years to learn behind Brady and obviously has learnt nothing. He should have an idea of what to do out there, but he doesn't. It's clear as day

The Intimidator
09-23-2008, 08:29 PM
Look, if your're a quarterback in the NFL and you can't get the ball in the end zone then you suck. We aren't the Vikings we don't have AP to bail us out for a TD every trip down the field when our QB blows balls. And did you really think that 45-3 predicition was a serious one, i went out on a limb. On some slight hope that Matt Cassel would air the ball out to Moss and give us a chance to blow out a scrub Dolphins team. We played scared, we have been so far this year. And no it's not understandable i don't care who our QB is, when you have the best wide out in the league you have to take some chances i don't care if Ryan Leaf is under center for us, throw Moss the ball. Cassel backed up good quarterbacks in college, he had 4 years to learn behind Brady and obviously has learnt nothing. He should have an idea of what to do out there, but he doesn't. It's clear as day

Whatever helps you sleep at night man. And don't pretend that your score prediction wasn't at least slightly serious. You saw this as a Patriots win going away. And before you accuse me of thinking the same thing, look at any of my posts. I predicted a 24-7 Patriots win. I thought it would be close. As it turns out, it wasn't close, but that isn't the point. My point is that yes, cassel has struggled in terms of getting the team into the endzone, but that doesn't mean that he "blows balls", and the fact that you're so overly critical of our QB means that you're expecting way too much from him. Give the kid some time. 2 games doesn't make the season, so let him get some time on the job. The season is not over.

69centers
09-23-2008, 08:32 PM
I may not have been posting in here (not at all lately) but believe me, ask my friends, I called it the night Brady went down BEFORE I even saw Cassel take a snap in the Jets game. When I found Brady was done for the season, I felt this way from the moment I heard it. I've seen Cassel in the past and have seen his horrible arm and tendency for dumb mistakes. I remember one game a year or two ago, in a blowout, where Cassel came in and was horrible, threw a pick or two, and was benched for the 3rd stringer. It must have been humiliating to him to come into a meaningless game and blow a chance to shine.

And good point above about how he's backed up Brady all these years and has learned squat. The guy's garbage and at the slim chance we even make the playoffs with him, there's no way we even win one game there. But, mark my words, quote me here, whatever. He stays in the whole year and I don't believe we will make the playoffs. I'm sticking to that.

BTownTeamsRKing
09-23-2008, 08:35 PM
Look, if your're a quarterback in the NFL and you can't get the ball in the end zone then you suck. We aren't the Vikings we don't have AP to bail us out for a TD every trip down the field when our QB blows balls. And did you really think that 45-3 predicition was a serious one, i went out on a limb. On some slight hope that Matt Cassel would air the ball out to Moss and give us a chance to blow out a scrub Dolphins team. We played scared, we have been so far this year. And no it's not understandable i don't care who our QB is, when you have the best wide out in the league you have to take some chances i don't care if Ryan Leaf is under center for us, throw Moss the ball. Cassel backed up good quarterbacks in college, he had 4 years to learn behind Brady and obviously has learnt nothing. He should have an idea of what to do out there, but he doesn't. It's clear as day

Cassel's 90 passer rating in the jets game is very overated. all he did was not lose the game. this guy isnt going to win us the games, he is in there to not lose them. problem is that our defense will eventually wear down and if Cassel doesnt poduce longer drives, then we arent winning anything.

btw on a random note, this just shows how important my boy Maroney is to this team. the offense died without him in there. Morris and Jordan got no where.

lets be honest about sunday: it was the perfect storm against the Patriots. it was everything i feared could go possibly wrong.

1. Defense was awful and uninspired.
2. Additional injury to the offense (Maroney)
3. non-existent running game
4. a team prepared for us as if it was the super bowl.
5. momentum carried the oponnent and they were way more excited out there.
6. we got down more than 2 scores early, which made it even tougher to play methodical.

this will not happen again, but hopefully Cassel learns to throw the ball to Moss. force the damn ball in there if u have to.

The Intimidator
09-23-2008, 08:45 PM
I may not have been posting in here (not at all lately) but believe me, ask my friends, I called it the night Brady went down BEFORE I even saw Cassel take a snap in the Jets game. When I found Brady was done for the season, I felt this way from the moment I heard it. I've seen Cassel in the past and have seen his horrible arm and tendency for dumb mistakes. I remember one game a year or two ago, in a blowout, where Cassel came in and was horrible, threw a pick or two, and was benched for the 3rd stringer. It must have been humiliating to him to come into a meaningless game and blow a chance to shine.

And good point above about how he's backed up Brady all these years and has learned squat. The guy's garbage and at the slim chance we even make the playoffs with him, there's no way we even win one game there. But, mark my words, quote me here, whatever. He stays in the whole year and I don't believe we will make the playoffs. I'm sticking to that.

I don't really care when you say you got this impression of Cassel. The bottom line is that you posted it in here the day after a bad loss, and not after the Jets game. That seems pretty suspicious to me.

cmoneytakemoney
09-23-2008, 08:54 PM
I may not have been posting in here (not at all lately) but believe me, ask my friends, I called it the night Brady went down BEFORE I even saw Cassel take a snap in the Jets game. When I found Brady was done for the season, I felt this way from the moment I heard it. I've seen Cassel in the past and have seen his horrible arm and tendency for dumb mistakes. I remember one game a year or two ago, in a blowout, where Cassel came in and was horrible, threw a pick or two, and was benched for the 3rd stringer. It must have been humiliating to him to come into a meaningless game and blow a chance to shine.

And good point above about how he's backed up Brady all these years and has learned squat. The guy's garbage and at the slim chance we even make the playoffs with him, there's no way we even win one game there. But, mark my words, quote me here, whatever. He stays in the whole year and I don't believe we will make the playoffs. I'm sticking to that.


I honestly don't think Cassel would be a starting QB for any team in the NFL right now. So why does he have to be ours when there's still better options out there. Tim Rattay is still available and, he was scheduled to come in for a workout the day after Brady got injured. I know you guys are going to say that Matt Cassel is a better option for us than Tim Rattay is. Your wrong if you think that. Rattay put up better numbers than Cassel when he was starting for the 49ers (who had the worst offense in football). I'm telling you Tim Rattay gives us a chance to win. Cassel and his jello arm don't.

bagwell368
09-23-2008, 09:52 PM
Um, no I wasn't serious, and if you read my post correctly, you'd know that.

Supposedly, at that time, they were meeting with a few QB's on Monday, but whoever had the idea to ditch that plan and stick with Cassel is a complete moron.

I guess I got crossed up... with so many gits posting anti Cassel dogrel.

BTW, its not a story, and they had two QB's in on the Saturday before the game Brady got injured. As for what they know, it's more then us. And as for their urgency, anybody that has an organized taping of other coaches signals and breaks down every piece of game film 18 hours a day all year long minus the one week a year he takes time off has no need to answer a stupid question like that.

bagwell368
09-23-2008, 09:55 PM
I may not have been posting in here (not at all lately) but believe me, ask my friends, I called it the night Brady went down BEFORE I even saw Cassel take a snap in the Jets game. When I found Brady was done for the season, I felt this way from the moment I heard it. I've seen Cassel in the past and have seen his horrible arm and tendency for dumb mistakes. I remember one game a year or two ago, in a blowout, where Cassel came in and was horrible, threw a pick or two, and was benched for the 3rd stringer. It must have been humiliating to him to come into a meaningless game and blow a chance to shine.

And good point above about how he's backed up Brady all these years and has learned squat. The guy's garbage and at the slim chance we even make the playoffs with him, there's no way we even win one game there. But, mark my words, quote me here, whatever. He stays in the whole year and I don't believe we will make the playoffs. I'm sticking to that.

Yawn.... all the numbers say is that through 2+ games in '01 Brady was doing less then Cassel, I wonder what you were saying then....?

bagwell368
09-23-2008, 10:00 PM
OK.

Let's try from the start.

#1 there is a salary cap, thus you can't be strong at every position
#2 BB and Pioli are more dedicated to winning and know more about pro football then all of us here combined.
#3 Cassel in their opinion seems to be the best current option.

So, when they find someone or develop someone they believe in more, he'll play. Can anyone really argue with this?

cmoneytakemoney
09-23-2008, 10:43 PM
OK.

Let's try from the start.

#1 there is a salary cap, thus you can't be strong at every position
#2 BB and Pioli are more dedicated to winning and know more about pro football then all of us here combined.
#3 Cassel in their opinion seems to be the best current option.

So, when they find someone or develop someone they believe in more, he'll play. Can anyone really argue with this?

I can't argue with that but, I'm not sure that it's the total truth because I think they're sticking with Cassel no matter what when I believe there is better options out there. With the bye week right now seems like the best time to get another QB acclumatted into the offense because if you really look at it Cassel could have been 0-3 right now. He squeaked out wins vs. 2 bad teams and, I know a lot of you are saying his stats are better than Brady's were in 2001 but Brady beat better teams by playing simple football. His 1st start he beat the Colts 44-17 when he was supposed to get crushed and Tom Brady had a very good defense. Matt Cassel has been favored to win both of his starts and barely won one and got killed in the other and, he's not playing simple football by throwing screens all game and rushing the ball also, the Patriots defense isn't really that good this year. This is a team set up to score points and Cassel can't score points so I think we should bring in a QB that has a good arm and can just make the right decision all game long. What Kerry Collins is doing for the Titans this year is what we need done for us.

The Intimidator
09-23-2008, 11:24 PM
OK.

Let's try from the start.

#1 there is a salary cap, thus you can't be strong at every position
#2 BB and Pioli are more dedicated to winning and know more about pro football then all of us here combined.
#3 Cassel in their opinion seems to be the best current option.

So, when they find someone or develop someone they believe in more, he'll play. Can anyone really argue with this?

No, nobody can logically argue with that. Good call. :clap:

Shock & Awe....
09-24-2008, 12:05 AM
Am I the only one content at this point of hoping for a good draft pick?

Does anyone think we can win the Superbowl this year? Is there a quarterback internally or available externally that could take us all the way? I don't think so. So, enjoy watching the young guys and hope for a great draft pick....

Patsfan56
09-24-2008, 08:13 AM
I liked Bagwell's post. No arguments here.

I admit, I have been critical of Cassell during the preseason. I could not for the life of me see what BB sees in him. Cool. I get paid how much for my football expertise?... that's right. Nothing.

What i belive is this:
1. BB sees something in this kid.
2. Our defense was no where to be seen this past week. Not just mediocre, but absolutely terrible.
3. We did not establish a running threat.
4. The O Line did not perform well.
5. I love the Patriots, win or lose

Its one game. When the rest of the team shows up and he sucks, then we can have this discussion. Right now, I am grateful for the bye week, so that the team can unscrew itself. We have more to worry about than MC. But I will be rooting none the less. Anyone who remembers the Pats before the new blue uniforms can empathize.

Crickr
09-24-2008, 08:30 AM
I liked Bagwell's post. No arguments here.

I admit, I have been critical of Cassell during the preseason. I could not for the life of me see what BB sees in him. Cool. I get paid how much for my football expertise?... that's right. Nothing.

What i belive is this:
1. BB sees something in this kid.
2. Our defense was no where to be seen this past week. Not just mediocre, but absolutely terrible.
3. We did not establish a running threat.
4. The O Line did not perform well.
5. I love the Patriots, win or lose

Its one game. When the rest of the team shows up and he sucks, then we can have this discussion. Right now, I am grateful for the bye week, so that the team can unscrew itself. We have more to worry about than MC. But I will be rooting none the less. Anyone who remembers the Pats before the new blue uniforms can empathize.

Well you may be able to tell my age by this but I remember the Plunket days and I have been a faithfull fan for better or worse since that time . The Pats as a whole didn't come to play on Sunday and the Finns did . One game does not make or break a season this early.

bagwell368
09-24-2008, 08:53 AM
I can't argue with that but, I'm not sure that it's the total truth because I think they're sticking with Cassel no matter what when I believe there is better options out there. With the bye week right now seems like the best time to get another QB acclumatted into the offense because if you really look at it Cassel could have been 0-3 right now. He squeaked out wins vs. 2 bad teams and, I know a lot of you are saying his stats are better than Brady's were in 2001 but Brady beat better teams by playing simple football. His 1st start he beat the Colts 44-17 when he was supposed to get crushed and Tom Brady had a very good defense. Matt Cassel has been favored to win both of his starts and barely won one and got killed in the other and, he's not playing simple football by throwing screens all game and rushing the ball also, the Patriots defense isn't really that good this year. This is a team set up to score points and Cassel can't score points so I think we should bring in a QB that has a good arm and can just make the right decision all game long. What Kerry Collins is doing for the Titans this year is what we need done for us.

Brady was 5-5 after 10 games in '01. The D was better, our O has more skill position players, probably better for a new QB in '01 because less is asked, and special teams and D were inspired, and of course Brown had a season for the ages.

I agree it's the bye week in which a change could happen, after that its injury or a couple of brutal games and/or end of playoff hopes that could bring in the kid or someone else.

bagwell368
09-24-2008, 09:06 AM
I liked Bagwell's post. No arguments here.

I admit, I have been critical of Cassell during the preseason. I could not for the life of me see what BB sees in him. Cool. I get paid how much for my football expertise?... that's right. Nothing.

What i belive is this:
1. BB sees something in this kid.
2. Our defense was no where to be seen this past week. Not just mediocre, but absolutely terrible.
3. We did not establish a running threat.
4. The O Line did not perform well.
5. I love the Patriots, win or lose

Its one game. When the rest of the team shows up and he sucks, then we can have this discussion. Right now, I am grateful for the bye week, so that the team can unscrew itself. We have more to worry about than MC. But I will be rooting none the less. Anyone who remembers the Pats before the new blue uniforms can empathize.

I thought Cassel was a dead man after his pre season, but if MG got cut and MC stayed, it wasn't because of a Quija board.

I think Jordan was hurt, and he really saved the running game in the 2nd half of the Jets game, and of course Maroney too. Hard to blame the backfield that much I think.

With Brady at the helm I expected a 'Boys v Pats SB. Without Brady they look like a #5-8 range team. Make the playoffs, win a game, lose the 2nd. But that's now. In '85 and '01 during the earlier phases of the season they looked like maybe a wild card team at best. '85 team plays some of those weak NFC teams from the earlier 80's they win the ring, however they met the Bears. '01 when they were 5-5 if you suggested they would rip off 9 straight including a SB victory over the Rams you'd get put in a straight jacket.

Who knows what this team is made of? For 3 years in a row they had a shot - Denver, Indy, Giants and couldn't seal the deal. If its one of those teams we can't win w/o Brady, maybe not even with him. But if this is '01 and everybody plays out of their minds, maybe we can. Last week didn't look good, unless it was a wake up. Right now the one guy that terrifies me on the field isn't Cassel, it's Bruschi, he's done or very near done. They need to do something - even bring Seau back for 9-12 plays a game to keep Tedy off the field as much as they can.

You know they talk about byes affecting players, I'm starting to think that the coaches assumed an easy win against Miami at home. If so, they need to wake up too.

Yeah, the old days.... the bogus roughing the passer call on Sugar Bear Hamilton. Mack Herron. Jim Nance. I go back to 1966, and have been to snow games with less then 3000 people in the stands. Listening to games on the radio or driving to NH because of all the blackouts. All the new fans are spoiled rotten. Wait until BB and TB retire and we have our first 4-12 season, then we'll see who is a fan, and who is a pink hat.

ERLynx
09-24-2008, 09:41 AM
'01 when they were 5-5 if you suggested they would rip off 9 straight including a SB victory over the Rams you'd get put in a straight jacket.

that made me smile. just goes to show you, you never know what will happen. we can sit in here and pontificate like the former athletes we are, or we can just enjoy it and keep the faith.

The Intimidator
09-24-2008, 10:18 AM
'01 when they were 5-5 if you suggested they would rip off 9 straight including a SB victory over the Rams you'd get put in a straight jacket.

that made me smile. just goes to show you, you never know what will happen. we can sit in here and pontificate like the former athletes we are, or we can just enjoy it and keep the faith.

Exactly, that's all we need to do, which is why threads like this one are pointless.

cmoneytakemoney
09-24-2008, 11:51 AM
'01 when they were 5-5 if you suggested they would rip off 9 straight including a SB victory over the Rams you'd get put in a straight jacket.

that made me smile. just goes to show you, you never know what will happen. we can sit in here and pontificate like the former athletes we are, or we can just enjoy it and keep the faith.


Yeah but, I felt comfortable with Brady in 01 even if nobody thought the Pats were going to make the playoffs I still knew we we're making the playoffs. As soon as Moe Lewis laid that hit on Bledsoe I knew we had a better chance of making the playoffs right there because I watched Brady all preseason and was impressed. I just don't have that comfort level with Cassel and I know everyone says we have an easy schedule but, our next 2 games are in California which means the Patriots are staying out there for 2 weeks or are flying back and forth to Cali 2 times in a week. We very well could be 2-3 when we come back home and we still got to play the Steelers, Colts, and Bills twice. The 49ers are not a joke anymore. J.T. O'Sullivan is a good QB. Didn't we have him signed to our practice squad a few years back?

The Intimidator
09-24-2008, 02:36 PM
Yeah but, I felt comfortable with Brady in 01 even if nobody thought the Pats were going to make the playoffs I still knew we we're making the playoffs. As soon as Moe Lewis laid that hit on Bledsoe I knew we had a better chance of making the playoffs right there because I watched Brady all preseason and was impressed. I just don't have that comfort level with Cassel and I know everyone says we have an easy schedule but, our next 2 games are in California which means the Patriots are staying out there for 2 weeks or are flying back and forth to Cali 2 times in a week. We very well could be 2-3 when we come back home and we still got to play the Steelers, Colts, and Bills twice. The 49ers are not a joke anymore. J.T. O'Sullivan is a good QB. Didn't we have him signed to our practice squad a few years back?

We never had O'Sullivan. He has been with Green Bay, New Orleans, Detroit, and now San Fran.

cowboys8
09-24-2008, 03:24 PM
The reason you guys will struggle will be due to the defense more than cassel.Cassel doesn't line up on D and didn't give up 38 points.The damn colllege option beat the genius coach you have.To many aging players on D,getting rid of Samuel was???????????Need to have RB healthy and hope Matt can hit Moss down field.No reason why Moss can't still put up pro bowl numbers.The Pats will go as far as there D will take them.The performance last week made Pennington look like a HOF QB.

elements1985
09-24-2008, 04:26 PM
Dream up any scenario (except another major injury) and I assure you something good will come out of this season:

1. Patriots make the play-offs/win Super Bowl with Cassel
--Desparate team forks over a 2nd/3rd round pick to acquire him
2. Patriots go 4-12
--Dynasty is replenished; they'll pick top 5 of EVERY ROUND

The botton line, however, is that they're not going to ride or die with Cassel. If he can't get the job done, they'll find someone who will. Belichick is not just going to roll over for a year.

O'Connell has more upside than Cassel, he just doesn't know the system/NFL quite yet. That being said, though, don't be shocked to see him in there this year.

Bottom line, this season rides on Seymour:
No pressure means = secondary gets exposed = touchdowns = offense gets behind and they won't be able to come back = loss

Teabagging pats
09-24-2008, 06:16 PM
Dream up any scenario (except another major injury) and I assure you something good will come out of this season:

1. Patriots make the play-offs/win Super Bowl with Cassel
--Desparate team forks over a 2nd/3rd round pick to acquire him
2. Patriots go 4-12
--Dynasty is replenished; they'll pick top 5 of EVERY ROUND

The botton line, however, is that they're not going to ride or die with Cassel. If he can't get the job done, they'll find someone who will. Belichick is not just going to roll over for a year.

O'Connell has more upside than Cassel, he just doesn't know the system/NFL quite yet. That being said, though, don't be shocked to see him in there this year.

Bottom line, this season rides on Seymour:
No pressure means = secondary gets exposed = touchdowns = offense gets behind and they won't be able to come back = loss

That would be awesome!

To the Pat bandwagons and fair weather fans.. You get off the wagon now and never come back.

I know some of you guys are true fans and i feel for you. Anything can happen in the NFL, You may be in the heat of the playoffs and being loyal to your team will be much sweater. :D

weebs
09-24-2008, 06:23 PM
lol, this is a stereotypical boston area fan, way to break the mold.

cmoneytakemoney
09-24-2008, 06:29 PM
We never had O'Sullivan. He has been with Green Bay, New Orleans, Detroit, and now San Fran.

Check up on stuff before you speak on it. Go to J.T O'Sullivan's bio on nfl.com. He was on the Patriots practice squad for the 2006 season.

bagwell368
09-24-2008, 09:31 PM
The reason you guys will struggle will be due to the defense more than cassel.Cassel doesn't line up on D and didn't give up 38 points.The damn colllege option beat the genius coach you have.To many aging players on D,getting rid of Samuel was???????????Need to have RB healthy and hope Matt can hit Moss down field.No reason why Moss can't still put up pro bowl numbers.The Pats will go as far as there D will take them.The performance last week made Pennington look like a HOF QB.

That genius coach dropped what was it? 49 last year on you guys, and you have how many playoff wins with that stud Romo at the controls. Go back to your own board troll.

ERLynx
09-24-2008, 09:53 PM
The reason you guys will struggle will be due to the defense more than cassel.Cassel doesn't line up on D and didn't give up 38 points.The damn colllege option beat the genius coach you have.To many aging players on D,getting rid of Samuel was???????????Need to have RB healthy and hope Matt can hit Moss down field.No reason why Moss can't still put up pro bowl numbers.The Pats will go as far as there D will take them.The performance last week made Pennington look like a HOF QB.

is this jerry jones!? this is jerry jones, isnt it! jerry welcome to the patriots board! jerry HELLO!

elements1985
09-24-2008, 11:31 PM
Cowboys8 is right about this year's defense: if they don't step it up (specifically Richard Seymour) they're done. But calling them "old"? That's cliche, and frankly untrue. Besides Bruschi, Vrabel, and Harrison they're average, if not pretty young. That's why, God forbid this season goes south, they can plug those holes up in next year's draft and continue this dynasty. Their defensive line is one of the youngest, and best, in all of football. So long as it's about the SYSTEM and not one particular player, they'll be set to keep on winning. This Brady injury just came unexpectedly. I guarantee that the Patriots outlive the Cowboys in this salary cap era.

In all, pending the continuation of the salarly cap era, the Pats are set up to keep it going well beyond the Cowboys. Their is no "system" in Dallas; it's built around players. That's what gives a team a shorter shelf life.

The Intimidator
09-25-2008, 12:53 AM
Check up on stuff before you speak on it. Go to J.T O'Sullivan's bio on nfl.com. He was on the Patriots practice squad for the 2006 season.

Okay, so he was on our practice squad for a little while in 2006. He was also with Carolina that year. What's your point? Are you going to bash the organization for not keeping him around?

cmoneytakemoney
09-25-2008, 04:02 AM
No I just don't like some know-it-all trying to tell me I'm wrong. I don't like when anyone questions me cuz I know where every nfl player went to college and what teams he been with in the pros. I'm a stats junkie. Seriously though that year when we cut O'Sullivan was one of the years we kept only 2 QB's on our 53 man roster so we probably could have gave him more of a shot.

bagwell368
09-25-2008, 09:07 AM
Cowboys8 is right about this year's defense: if they don't step it up (specifically Richard Seymour) they're done. But calling them "old"? That's cliche, and frankly untrue. Besides Bruschi, Vrabel, and Harrison they're average, if not pretty young. That's why, God forbid this season goes south, they can plug those holes up in next year's draft and continue this dynasty. Their defensive line is one of the youngest, and best, in all of football. So long as it's about the SYSTEM and not one particular player, they'll be set to keep on winning. This Brady injury just came unexpectedly. I guarantee that the Patriots outlive the Cowboys in this salary cap era.

In all, pending the continuation of the salarly cap era, the Pats are set up to keep it going well beyond the Cowboys. Their is no "system" in Dallas; it's built around players. That's what gives a team a shorter shelf life.

Firstly I don't think Seymour is an issue this year, although I have been a critic in the past. Vrabel is 32, only a bit past middle age for a starting LB in this league. The other two guys are ancient, Bruschi is the one I see as failing so far.

The DL is not that young, although I agree real good.

And yes you are right Dallas has a short shelf life - 3 years from now they'll be 6-10, and may or may not win a title in the interim.

goshhhjosh
09-25-2008, 10:05 AM
why is it that whenever patriots fans talk football, someone has to come in and bring up the super bowl? i mean especially cowboys fans, you lost to the same giants team that beat us, and you were favored. so just go back to your dallas board and enjoy your season and pray that T.O. doesn't start with his "that's my quarterback man." :cry:boohoo...sorry people.

The Intimidator
09-25-2008, 11:29 AM
No I just don't like some know-it-all trying to tell me I'm wrong. I don't like when anyone questions me cuz I know where every nfl player when to college and what teams he been with in the pros. I'm a stats junkie. Seriously though that year when we cut O'Sullivan was one of the years we kept only 2 QB's on our 53 man roster so we probably could have gave him more of a shot.

Calm down, buddy. I'm not a know it all. I checked up on it, but I only got the teams that he actually suited up for. My bad. Keep studying your stats.

BRADY4MVP
09-25-2008, 11:39 AM
No I just don't like some know-it-all trying to tell me I'm wrong. I don't like when anyone questions me cuz I know where every nfl player when to college and what teams he been with in the pros. I'm a stats junkie. Seriously though that year when we cut O'Sullivan was one of the years we kept only 2 QB's on our 53 man roster so we probably could have gave him more of a shot.

thats impressive

blacknell
09-25-2008, 10:16 PM
i hate the patriots ya'll are cheaters and needless to say after the way ya'll got spanked by miami no playoffs for ya'll maybe win 6 games though....HOW BOUT THEM COWBOYS

blacknell
09-25-2008, 10:19 PM
hmmmm another funny i need to add before i go back to my dallas board... watch how bad Moss starts to perform now lol he is about to destroy this team bet ya wish ya had T.O

ERLynx
09-25-2008, 10:34 PM
bait meeee
bait meeee my friend
bait meeee
bait meeee again

KingJamsI
09-25-2008, 11:09 PM
yeah...your not very good at baiting dude..

The Intimidator
09-25-2008, 11:14 PM
I must say, we have had a lot of people come in here trying to bait us over the past 5 days, and blacknell my friend, you need some work at it. I do like the fact that you incorporated a texas accent into your post though. I give you a 2.5 out of 10. Keep trying though!

blacknell
09-26-2008, 12:03 AM
well maybe if New England goes out and gets younger on defense and better players on that side of the ball might help out alot harrison is 96 years old and the corners ya'll have suck now the defense is not feared anymore especially after sunday. Every team for now own is gonna pound the ball down there throat and pick them apart. also the only reason the Patriots win games in the first place is because they play in the worst division in the NFL's history......And let me say this none of you so called New England fans were fans until they won the superbowl in 01 and now all of ya'll are about to jump off the bandwagon and say your cowboy fans now

cmoneytakemoney
09-26-2008, 01:13 AM
well maybe if New England goes out and gets younger on defense and better players on that side of the ball might help out alot harrison is 96 years old and the corners ya'll have suck now the defense is not feared anymore especially after sunday. Every team for now own is gonna pound the ball down there throat and pick them apart. also the only reason the Patriots win games in the first place is because they play in the worst division in the NFL's history......And let me say this none of you so called New England fans were fans until they won the superbowl in 01 and now all of ya'll are about to jump off the bandwagon and say your cowboy fans now

Either your 7 years old or you never finished junior high school because you can't spell or write for ****. Lots of inbredding going on in Texas huh? Your going say the Patriots only win games because they're in the worst division in football? I seem to remember a straight up New England whippin put on your Cowboys last year ya hillbilly.

Jonathan2323
09-26-2008, 01:15 AM
Good, I hope you don't watch. True fans support their team through thick and thin. We have been spoiled over the last 7 years.

good attitude. i still think you guys will make the playoffs

Patsfan56
09-26-2008, 07:50 AM
well maybe if New England goes out and gets younger on defense and better players on that side of the ball might help out alot harrison is 96 years old and the corners ya'll have suck now the defense is not feared anymore especially after sunday. Every team for now own is gonna pound the ball down there throat and pick them apart. also the only reason the Patriots win games in the first place is because they play in the worst division in the NFL's history......And let me say this none of you so called New England fans were fans until they won the superbowl in 01 and now all of ya'll are about to jump off the bandwagon and say your cowboy fans now

Ayuh!! Yessah! Geez, you bet your ***!! I couldah gone down to tha stoah and heaud betta gahbage than that!!

You see my friend, just because you live in an area with an accent, doesn't mean it translates on an internet forum. Grow up, stop baiting the good and faithful fans of this team, and please, for the sake of everyone here, just stick to your cowboys forum. People here will beat you down like a harp seal if you keep up like this.

And nothing on this planet... nothing will ever make me want to be a cowboys fan. I'd rather give myself a frontal lobotomy with a rusty butter knife. No offense, but your team hasn't had a soul since the immortal Tom Landry walked the sidelines. I will stay right here with my team, thanks.

Crickr
09-26-2008, 08:16 AM
Ayuh!! Yessah! Geez, you bet your ***!! I couldah gone down to tha stoah and heaud betta gahbage than that!!

You see my friend, just because you live in an area with an accent, doesn't mean it translates on an internet forum. Grow up, stop baiting the good and faithful fans of this team, and please, for the sake of everyone here, just stick to your cowboys forum. People here will beat you down like a harp seal if you keep up like this.

And nothing on this planet... nothing will ever make me want to be a cowboys fan. I'd rather give myself a frontal lobotomy with a rusty butter knife. No offense, but your team hasn't had a soul since the immortal Tom Landry walked the sidelines. I will stay right here with my team, thanks.

Ayuh seems I have heard that accent though. I do agree with you completly Patsfan

ERLynx
09-26-2008, 09:58 AM
Blacknell's first name choices:

1) Dale
2) Clint
3) Rusty
4) Dale Clint Rusty Blacknell III

The Intimidator
09-26-2008, 10:29 AM
well maybe if New England goes out and gets younger on defense and better players on that side of the ball might help out alot harrison is 96 years old and the corners ya'll have suck now the defense is not feared anymore especially after sunday. Every team for now own is gonna pound the ball down there throat and pick them apart. also the only reason the Patriots win games in the first place is because they play in the worst division in the NFL's history......And let me say this none of you so called New England fans were fans until they won the superbowl in 01 and now all of ya'll are about to jump off the bandwagon and say your cowboy fans now

Actually, I became a Pats fan at age 6 when they went to Super Bowl XXXI against the Packers. Yeah, I pretty much just revealed my age but who cares? So no, I'm not a bandwagon fan, I'm sticking with my Pats now and forever. And btw, why would I want to jump on the bandwagon of your team, who hasn't won a playoff game in 12 years?

Martin14
09-26-2008, 10:42 AM
Blacknell's first name choices:

1) Dale
2) Clint
3) Rusty
4) Dale Clint Rusty Blacknell III

oh dude...you forgot one. "Clyde"

ERLynx
09-26-2008, 10:53 AM
Actually, I became a Pats fan at age 6 when they went to Super Bowl XXXI against the Packers. Yeah, I pretty much just revealed my age but who cares? So no, I'm not a bandwagon fan, I'm sticking with my Pats now and forever. And btw, why would I want to jump on the bandwagon of your team, who hasn't won a playoff game in 12 years?

Yea. I became a Pats fan in 93 when they got Bledsoe. I remember that Super Bowl. I was 15 I think. Tough game, but GB was the better team.

Super.
09-26-2008, 10:55 AM
of course we will! how is that anyway to think....go back to the years when the pats sucked......we still have a much better team then we did back then,


anyone who thinks the pats wont be in the playoffs is a bandwagon hoppin, fair-weather fan, and needs to go back to whatever pathetic place they crawled out of

(i am of course talking about people who "say" they support the pats....not other teams fans)

Martin14
09-26-2008, 10:56 AM
let's just bring back Zolak and his lazy eye...

Securb
09-26-2008, 11:40 AM
No... I am just saying... If he thinks we are gonna suck... We'll end up with a good draft pick...

I like to see the bright side of things...

You might have to draft a QB you are assuming Brady is coming back 100% if he comes back at all. He is pretty banged up.

ERLynx
09-26-2008, 11:58 AM
You might have to draft a QB you are assuming Brady is coming back 100% if he comes back at all. He is pretty banged up.

Thanks for the update, Sal Paolantonio.

The Intimidator
09-26-2008, 12:54 PM
You might have to draft a QB you are assuming Brady is coming back 100% if he comes back at all. He is pretty banged up.

Really? Wow, I had no idea that he was "pretty banged up." I thought that a torn ACL was no big deal. Man, I'm dumb.

Now, in all seriousness, why is it that Brady can't come back next year and be just as good as he was before? He's going to have surgery in a week or two, and will be recovered in about 6-9 months. So, even though you don't want him to come back at all, I'm pretty sure that he will be back next season. That is, unless you're a surgeon and you have something on the subject to shed some light on.

Securb
09-26-2008, 01:12 PM
That is, unless you're a surgeon and you have something on the subject to shed some light on.

Yes I am a surgeon and I have done that procedure dozens of times. The thing to keep in mind is only about 60% of people who have ACL surgery return to the full level of activity they had before their injury.

Many people experience limited range of motion after surgery and there have been in some cases crepitus. A grating of the kneecap as it moves against the lower end of the femur, which may develop in people who did not have it before surgery. This may be painful and may limit his athletic performance.

cmoneytakemoney
09-26-2008, 01:12 PM
Yea. I became a Pats fan in 93 when they got Bledsoe. I remember that Super Bowl. I was 15 I think. Tough game, but GB was the better team.

Yeah I was 15 too. Sophmore in high school.

ERLynx
09-26-2008, 02:06 PM
Intim- Consider the case of Donovan McNabb. In 2006 he had a similar injury, well, torn ACL and Meniscus, which is knee cartilage. He was bothered by the injury last year, after a 10 month recovery. Everyone on the news around here is saying he is just now getting back to the player he was before the injury. But who knows? Maybe Tommy is a faster healer. Here's hoping for that.

BostonHooligan1
09-26-2008, 02:36 PM
well maybe if New England goes out and gets younger on defense and better players on that side of the ball might help out alot harrison is 96 years old and the corners ya'll have suck now the defense is not feared anymore especially after sunday. Every team for now own is gonna pound the ball down there throat and pick them apart. also the only reason the Patriots win games in the first place is because they play in the worst division in the NFL's history......And let me say this none of you so called New England fans were fans until they won the superbowl in 01 and now all of ya'll are about to jump off the bandwagon and say your cowboy fans now

First off, go get a G.E.D. And yes there are alot of bandwagon fans...but there are bandwagon fans everywhere, personally i have been a fans since 92. If you are a bandwagon fan i suggest you do take blacknell's advice and jump on the dallas wagon... im sure he could use the company. Dallas goes
3-0 for the second year in a row and all of a sudden we have dallas fans acting like N.Y fans. Well we all remember what happened last year with your HOF quarterback ROMO dropping the ball...literally. Its sad when the fans are more worried about jessica simpson in the stands than their team on the field. And finally to call the AFC east one of the worst divisions in history is ridiculous. you must forget that the colts who finally won a superbowl 2 years ago with Manning use to be in that division. And it took them to be moved to a different division for him to finally win one. It is easy to jump all over the patriots after that horrible loss to miami. But what New England fans forget is that we are only 2-1. not that bad after 3 games. Also, how quick the masses forget about the Jets game only one week ago when Cassell and the pats out played the jets, defensively and offensively. Brady did the same thing when he first started, he won a decisive game against the COLTS 44-13 and then lost horribly the next game. We cannot expect a repeat of a perfect season and should dig in for a tough week by week season, but hey....we have been here before... and weather or not the pats continue their winning ways or have a horrible season, no one can take away what OUR new england patriots have done. With every rise there is a harder fall, and you can believe that when TOM BRADY is back...the whole tone of the leauge will change again.
GO PATS.

Patsfan56
09-26-2008, 03:08 PM
First off, go get a G.E.D. And yes there are alot of bandwagon fans...but there are bandwagon fans everywhere, personally i have been a fans since 92. If you are a bandwagon fan i suggest you do take blacknell's advice and jump on the dallas wagon... im sure he could use the company. Dallas goes
3-0 for the second year in a row and all of a sudden we have dallas fans acting like N.Y fans. Well we all remember what happened last year with your HOF quarterback ROMO dropping the ball...literally. Its sad when the fans are more worried about jessica simpson in the stands than their team on the field. And finally to call the AFC east one of the worst divisions in history is ridiculous. you must forget that the colts who finally won a superbowl 2 years ago with Manning use to be in that division. And it took them to be moved to a different division for him to finally win one. It is easy to jump all over the patriots after that horrible loss to miami. But what New England fans forget is that we are only 2-1. not that bad after 3 games. Also, how quick the masses forget about the Jets game only one week ago when Cassell and the pats out played the jets, defensively and offensively. Brady did the same thing when he first started, he won a decisive game against the COLTS 44-13 and then lost horribly the next game. We cannot expect a repeat of a perfect season and should dig in for a tough week by week season, but hey....we have been here before... and weather or not the pats continue their winning ways or have a horrible season, no one can take away what OUR new england patriots have done. With every rise there is a harder fall, and you can believe that when TOM BRADY is back...the whole tone of the leauge will change again.
GO PATS.

Nice first post. Well said- and welcome to the forum!

The Intimidator
09-26-2008, 04:44 PM
First off, go get a G.E.D. And yes there are alot of bandwagon fans...but there are bandwagon fans everywhere, personally i have been a fans since 92. If you are a bandwagon fan i suggest you do take blacknell's advice and jump on the dallas wagon... im sure he could use the company. Dallas goes
3-0 for the second year in a row and all of a sudden we have dallas fans acting like N.Y fans. Well we all remember what happened last year with your HOF quarterback ROMO dropping the ball...literally. Its sad when the fans are more worried about jessica simpson in the stands than their team on the field. And finally to call the AFC east one of the worst divisions in history is ridiculous. you must forget that the colts who finally won a superbowl 2 years ago with Manning use to be in that division. And it took them to be moved to a different division for him to finally win one. It is easy to jump all over the patriots after that horrible loss to miami. But what New England fans forget is that we are only 2-1. not that bad after 3 games. Also, how quick the masses forget about the Jets game only one week ago when Cassell and the pats out played the jets, defensively and offensively. Brady did the same thing when he first started, he won a decisive game against the COLTS 44-13 and then lost horribly the next game. We cannot expect a repeat of a perfect season and should dig in for a tough week by week season, but hey....we have been here before... and weather or not the pats continue their winning ways or have a horrible season, no one can take away what OUR new england patriots have done. With every rise there is a harder fall, and you can believe that when TOM BRADY is back...the whole tone of the leauge will change again.
GO PATS.

Welcome to PSD.

cmoneytakemoney
09-26-2008, 05:13 PM
Intim- Consider the case of Donovan McNabb. In 2006 he had a similar injury, well, torn ACL and Meniscus, which is knee cartilage. He was bothered by the injury last year, after a 10 month recovery. Everyone on the news around here is saying he is just now getting back to the player he was before the injury. But who knows? Maybe Tommy is a faster healer. Here's hoping for that.


I think it took Donovan McNabb longer than a year because he is an agile type QB that sometimes uses his speed to create plays and maybe to get back your ability to cut, pivot, and all that it might take longer but, for a QB like Brady I don't think it will be an issue. He just needs to be able to plant of of it and feel comfortable doing it and he should be just fine next year.

The Intimidator
09-26-2008, 06:37 PM
I think it took Donovan McNabb longer than a year because he is an agile type QB that sometimes uses his speed to create plays and maybe to get back your ability to cut, pivot, and all that it might take longer but, for a QB like Brady I don't think it will be an issue. He just needs to be able to plant of of it and feel comfortable doing it and he should be just fine next year.

Very good point.

blacknell
09-26-2008, 07:13 PM
Actually, I became a Pats fan at age 6 when they went to Super Bowl XXXI against the Packers. Yeah, I pretty much just revealed my age but who cares? So no, I'm not a bandwagon fan, I'm sticking with my Pats now and forever. And btw, why would I want to jump on the bandwagon of your team, who hasn't won a playoff game in 12 years?

i notice alot of people here bringing up the cowboys haven't won a playoff game in 12 years and i just want to know what does that have to do with this season? the Tom Landry comment was dumb we won 3 superbowls after he was fired. I just want to know is my english better now lol i guess i could display my college education a little bit because i know nobody in here attends college or has a job.

blacknell
09-26-2008, 07:22 PM
First off, go get a G.E.D. And yes there are alot of bandwagon fans...but there are bandwagon fans everywhere, personally i have been a fans since 92. If you are a bandwagon fan i suggest you do take blacknell's advice and jump on the dallas wagon... im sure he could use the company. Dallas goes
3-0 for the second year in a row and all of a sudden we have dallas fans acting like N.Y fans. Well we all remember what happened last year with your HOF quarterback ROMO dropping the ball...literally. Its sad when the fans are more worried about jessica simpson in the stands than their team on the field. And finally to call the AFC east one of the worst divisions in history is ridiculous. you must forget that the colts who finally won a superbowl 2 years ago with Manning use to be in that division. And it took them to be moved to a different division for him to finally win one. It is easy to jump all over the patriots after that horrible loss to miami. But what New England fans forget is that we are only 2-1. not that bad after 3 games. Also, how quick the masses forget about the Jets game only one week ago when Cassell and the pats out played the jets, defensively and offensively. Brady did the same thing when he first started, he won a decisive game against the COLTS 44-13 and then lost horribly the next game. We cannot expect a repeat of a perfect season and should dig in for a tough week by week season, but hey....we have been here before... and weather or not the pats continue their winning ways or have a horrible season, no one can take away what OUR new england patriots have done. With every rise there is a harder fall, and you can believe that when TOM BRADY is back...the whole tone of the leauge will change again.
GO PATS.

First off my good man that was not last season when Romo dropped the snap that was 2 seasons ago he had nothing to do with the loss to the giants. Also explain to me how the AFC East is not a a horrible division.. I really want to know thi, every team but the pats had a loosing record and no matter what you or anybody in here says it is a fact.

The Intimidator
09-26-2008, 07:28 PM
i notice alot of people here bringing up the cowboys haven't won a playoff game in 12 years and i just want to know what does that have to do with this season? the Tom Landry comment was dumb we won 3 superbowls after he was fired. I just want to know is my english better now lol i guess i could display my college education a little bit because i know nobody in here attends college or has a job.

I didn't make the Tom Landry comment, first of all. Second of all, I am attending college right now, and I'm sure that a lot of other people here went to college as well. So you're wrong again.

blacknell
09-26-2008, 07:37 PM
community college doen't count

The Intimidator
09-26-2008, 07:39 PM
Very funny *******. Means alot coming from someone who can't spell "doesn't".

Shock & Awe....
09-26-2008, 09:43 PM
Intim- Consider the case of Donovan McNabb. In 2006 he had a similar injury, well, torn ACL and Meniscus, which is knee cartilage. He was bothered by the injury last year, after a 10 month recovery. Everyone on the news around here is saying he is just now getting back to the player he was before the injury. But who knows? Maybe Tommy is a faster healer. Here's hoping for that.

I think we should be very careful when using other players with similar injuries as a yardstick to try and predict when the player will return and at what function they will be at. No two injuries or routes of repair and recovery are the same. When we hear about "torn" ligaments, these tears are of different grades of magnitude and have different prognoses. A grade 1 gets you a week off and a grade 3 is a complete rupture… and then there is everything else in between. A similar injury with a higher magnitude might require surgery or a lower magnitude tear may require a brace and week off from practice... yet, they are all labeled as “tears.” Right now it appears they are playing the wait and see approach with Brady's MCL hoping that the strain was of a low enough grade to heal on its own before they progress to reconstruct his ACL. Other factors to consider are the player's age, previous functional status prior to injury, strength of supporting musculature, past medical profile/history, nutrition, metabolism, etc. In terms of the procedure, the skill of the surgeon, success of the operation, type of graft used for the ACL (whether it come from the hamstring complex, IT Band, patella ligament, synthetic, cadaver, etc.,) the strength and stiffness of the graft, how quick the graft receives blood, oxygen and nutrients, the surgical approach, the time required for the reduction of inflammation, success of the rehab program, adherence to that program, minimizing setbacks, quickness of progression to free weight bearing status, patient motivation, etc etc etc. If there was meniscal damage (like in McNabb's case,) how deep was the damage, did it penetrate the subchondral bone, is there adequate profusion to the cartilage to allow for healing? etc. etc.

Long story, short.... there's a lot of different variables and factors to attribute to how quick Brady is going to come back and as to how he will play. All we can do is wait and see....

Shock & Awe....
09-26-2008, 10:03 PM
of course we will! how is that anyway to think....go back to the years when the pats sucked......we still have a much better team then we did back then,


anyone who thinks the pats wont be in the playoffs is a bandwagon hoppin, fair-weather fan, and needs to go back to whatever pathetic place they crawled out of

(i am of course talking about people who "say" they support the pats....not other teams fans)

I'm sorry but I don't see the correlation between being a "true" fan and having to believe that your team is going to the playoffs. I'm a fan and I will cheer and support this team all season. But, I don't have to believe they're going to the playoffs. I hope I'm wrong but I'm being realistic... There's a solid chance we don’t make the playoffs this season. I'm perfectly content watching the young guys (ie. Mayo) and hoping for a solid pick in next year’s draft and making a run next year.

What about the fans of teams that are notoriously bad every season? Do you expect them to go into every season believing that their team has a shot? If your idea is accurate… half of the league’s teams don’t have “true” fans because half the teams in this league haven’t given their fans anything to make them believe they have a shot.

Being a fan doesn't require that you just blindly go into every season believing that your team is going to win it all. That's just homerism... It’s about supporting your team even when you know they don’t have a chance…

BostonHooligan1
09-26-2008, 11:24 PM
i stand corrected blacknel, it was to years ago, im a true patriots fan, all i follow is the pats so very well done. But it still doesnt matter. it happened. And i will tell you why every team had a losing record....BECASUE THE PATS HAD BEATEN EVERYONE. without the 4 or 5 divisional loses that the pats give during a normal season or even more the balance is off set. With the pats back to losing 5-6 games the division will be normal again...and also...i gave you the facts already with the colts... u cant deny that it wasnt coincidence that after the colts left the division they won a superbowl... to call a division the worst in history that at one time had two of the greatest QBs of all time , Brady and Manning and yes i put them in that order, is absurd. And leave it to a cowboys fan to make absurd comments...must be that T.O syndrom

BostonHooligan1
09-26-2008, 11:25 PM
And thank you to all of you who have welcomed me into the PSD. I am new to the whole forum thing but love to talk sports...i am looking forward to talkin sports with you on a regular!! GO PATS!!

blacknell
09-26-2008, 11:27 PM
i stand corrected blacknel, it was to years ago, im a true patriots fan, all i follow is the pats so very well done. But it still doesnt matter. it happened. And i will tell you why every team had a losing record....BECASUE THE PATS HAD BEATEN EVERYONE. without the 4 or 5 divisional loses that the pats give during a normal season or even more the balance is off set. With the pats back to losing 5-6 games the division will be normal again...and also...i gave you the facts already with the colts... u cant deny that it wasnt coincidence that after the colts left the division they won a superbowl... to call a division the worst in history that at one time had two of the greatest QBs of all time , Brady and Manning and yes i put them in that order, is absurd. And leave it to a cowboys fan to make absurd comments...must be that T.O syndrom

I'm sorry my man but Manning is better than Brady

BostonHooligan1
09-26-2008, 11:31 PM
Thank you to all the people who have welcomed me to the psd. I look forward to talking sports with all of you. Go pats!

BostonHooligan1
09-26-2008, 11:34 PM
I'm sorry my man but Manning is better than Brady


NO WAY! Brady had better numbers already in a shorter time in the NFL. minus total passing yard in which Manning holds. But Brady has thrown for more TD.S has a better completion percentage and is a better general on the field... i think the three superbowl wins to mannings one win is a testament to how much better brady is. And i do believe Tom was MVP of 2 of those superbowls... as well as MVP of the leage last year...a title that manning has not held.

AND SORRY ABOUT POSTING THE SAME THANK YOU, IM NEW TO THIS HAHAHA

bagwell368
09-27-2008, 12:13 AM
First off my good man that was not last season when Romo dropped the snap that was 2 seasons ago he had nothing to do with the loss to the giants. Also explain to me how the AFC East is not a a horrible division.. I really want to know thi, every team but the pats had a loosing record and no matter what you or anybody in here says it is a fact.

I believe in your obtuse way you were trying to discount last years Pats 18-1 team due to a poor record of the Division teams. Well in fact the Pats had one of the hardest schedules of all time by record of opposing teams and number of teams making the playoffs faced. Look it up.

ERLynx
09-27-2008, 05:22 AM
arguing brady vs manning in this thread? you must be new. welcome to PSD, and dont bother. it's us pats fans vs. every other jealous, whiny, loser fan that comes in here, that claims obscure statistics to justify their presence in the NFL. Notice the Giants fans dont bother coming in here. Anyways, when hayseed cowboys fans show up and yall up the thread, just ignore them: they will go away soon enough. at least before they lose their first game against a completely undermatched team that shows up to play that the cowboys overlook. just stick around and watch what happens.

celticfan
09-27-2008, 06:41 AM
Well said,. And on top of that, I don't see why everyone is on Cassell. The blame can be put on the D (if we are talking about last game) just as much as Cassell.

Got that right:clap:

celticfan
09-27-2008, 06:44 AM
i think that we will make the play-offs, if our defense decides to step up. This is a task for Bill and the defense to see if this defense really is the real deal, or do they count on Tom Brady too much. I also think once we start getting Cassel more confidence, he will start throwing the deep bomb to Randy Moss. Bill has also said that Cassel is their QB.

celticfan
09-27-2008, 06:46 AM
I'm sorry my man but Manning is better than Brady

How?

Peyton- 1 super Bowl

Brady- 3 Super Bowls

Peyton may have better stats, but Tom wins most of the big games.

bagwell368
09-27-2008, 11:03 AM
Brady v Manning? One of my all time favorite PSD topics, here goes:

Ignore counting stats (TD's in career since Manning has 51 more career starts), one cannot judge Brady here until he is done.

Using rate stats (say QB rating) they are close in the regular season - Manning is 3rd all time and Brady is 5th (1.3 points more for PM). But let's put some context around that:

#1. From '01 thru '07 inclusive the Colts have spent more on the offensive side of the ball then any other team - which has given them a large advantage in skill position players ending up in the pro bowl (12) to the Pats (3). Only in '07 have the Pats risen above the middle of the pack to challange the Colts - and what happened? A record season for QB & WR TD's and total scoring.

#2. Speaking of Brady's great '07 season compared to Manning's 49 TD '04 season, Manning had 10 games in Domes, and Brady only had 2, and faced some very bad weather games the last 2/5th of the season. Like Manning Brady has better career stats in a Dome, can you imagine if he had 10 games like Manning in a Dome last year? And oh yeah, the Pats schedule in '07 was more difficult then the Colts faced in '07.

#3. Manning as the first pick in the draft and one of the highest 5 salaried players in the league for years has out earned Brady (a 6th round pick) about 3.5 to 1 in career earnings, but has one ring to show for it.

#4. Post season. The QB rating numbers flip in the post season. In 14 games Manning's rating is 84.4 (lower then Brady's against NYG last year) with 21 TD and 17 INT, and a lofty record of 7-7 including a stellar 1-7 in post season ending games.

Brady has a QB rating of 88.0 with 26 TD and 12 INT, and a lofty 14-3 career record with a 3-3 record in post season ending games. Somehow either we are getting a lot more value for Brady then the Colts get for Manning, or Manning is overrated.

#5. leadership. All you have to do is see Mannings performance on Jan 18th 2004 losing 24-14 in Foxboro with the immortal line of 23 for 47 with 1 TD and 4 INT and a QB rating of 48.9, and see the hysteria in his face and body language, and him throw his offensive line under the bus in the post game press conference that year, and the following year when the Pats again plowed the Colts under 20-3. What a leader, what a man.

That anyone should consider him as better then Brady is amazing and awful at the same time. Please go to this site for further breakdowns of how Brady >> Manning

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=261&Category=7

bagwell368
09-27-2008, 11:04 AM
First off my good man that was not last season when Romo dropped the snap that was 2 seasons ago he had nothing to do with the loss to the giants. Also explain to me how the AFC East is not a a horrible division.. I really want to know thi, every team but the pats had a loosing record and no matter what you or anybody in here says it is a fact.

I believe in your obtuse way you were trying to discount last years Pats 18-1 team due to a poor record of the Division teams. Well in fact the Pats had one of the hardest schedules of all time by record of opposing teams and number of teams making the playoffs faced. Look it up - actually I'll do it:

Game 2: trounce San Diego 38-14 (11-5)
Game 5: nail Browns 34-17 (10-6)
Game 6: dispatched 'Boys 48-27 (13-3) in game of unbeaten team.
Game 7: killed Redskins 52-7 (9-7)
Game 8: beat Colts on road in battle of 9-0 teams 24-20 (13-3)
Game 14: crush Steelers 34-13 (10-6)
Game 17: beat Giants 38-35 (10-6)

In the playoffs they beat Jax 31-20 (12-6); beat SD 21-12 (13-6)

The only teams of note the NFL they did not play were:

Titans at 10-6
Packers at 13-3
Bucs 9-7
Seahawks 10-6


If and when Romo and the 'Boys win a ring, maybe you should chortle.

BostonHooligan1
09-27-2008, 01:15 PM
nice work BAGWELL, im impressed.

ERLynx
09-27-2008, 02:28 PM
Bagwell, honestly, you're a dominant force on PSD. Possibly my hero. I'm going to copy your argument and paste it whenever anyone brings that up. Thank you sir.

The Intimidator
09-27-2008, 03:44 PM
I love Bagwell. :)

Crickr
09-27-2008, 06:02 PM
Great job bagwell you always have your stuff together and are interesting reading.

blacknell
09-27-2008, 07:01 PM
NO WAY! Brady had better numbers already in a shorter time in the NFL. minus total passing yard in which Manning holds. But Brady has thrown for more TD.S has a better completion percentage and is a better general on the field... i think the three superbowl wins to mannings one win is a testament to how much better brady is. And i do believe Tom was MVP of 2 of those superbowls... as well as MVP of the leage last year...a title that manning has not held.

AND SORRY ABOUT POSTING THE SAME THANK YOU, IM NEW TO THIS HAHAHA

actually Manning won NFL MVP twice 2003 and 2004 he also has a superbowl MVP award and he has been to the pro bowl 4 more years and dude manning has over 100 more td passed than brady and over 10000 more passing yards but manning did come in 2 years before him also he has a higher qb rating all proven stats look em up and i think its safe to say Manning is the best general in the league he is already top 5 QB ever and this is coming from a cowboys fan

blacknell
09-27-2008, 07:34 PM
I believe in your obtuse way you were trying to discount last years Pats 18-1 team due to a poor record of the Division teams. Well in fact the Pats had one of the hardest schedules of all time by record of opposing teams and number of teams making the playoffs faced. Look it up - actually I'll do it:

Game 2: trounce San Diego 38-14 (11-5)
Game 5: nail Browns 34-17 (10-6)
Game 6: dispatched 'Boys 48-27 (13-3) in game of unbeaten team.
Game 7: killed Redskins 52-7 (9-7)
Game 8: beat Colts on road in battle of 9-0 teams 24-20 (13-3)
Game 14: crush Steelers 34-13 (10-6)
Game 17: beat Giants 38-35 (10-6)

In the playoffs they beat Jax 31-20 (12-6); beat SD 21-12 (13-6)

The only teams of note the NFL they did not play were:

Titans at 10-6
Packers at 13-3
Bucs 9-7
Seahawks 10-6


If and when Romo and the 'Boys win a ring, maybe you should chortle.

so 7 out of 16 regular season games they played teams with a winning record what about the other 9 teams?
cincy 7-9
buffalo 7-9 played twice
jets 4-12 played twice
B-more 5-11
miami 1-15 played twice
teams in there divison had a record of 12-36 worst in the league overall teams faced record is 100-92 and you want me to believe thats a top NFL scheldule?

cmoneytakemoney
09-27-2008, 07:36 PM
actually Manning won NFL MVP twice 2003 and 2004 he also has a superbowl MVP award and he has been to the pro bowl 4 more years and dude manning has over 100 more td passed than brady and over 10000 more passing yards but manning did come in 2 years before him also he has a higher qb rating all proven stats look em up and i think its safe to say Manning is the best general in the league he is already top 5 QB ever and this is coming from a cowboys fan

Stats mean absolutely nothing. Brady won 3 Super Bowls on teams that Peyton Manning would have been lucky to win 8 games with. That's what it all comes down to. Manning has been surrounded by talent his whole career and won 1 Super Bowl and the 1st time Brady had any talent he lead the team to an undefeated season and if it wasn't for 2 or 3 lucky plays on the last drive would have won another Super Bowl. Peyton Manning has better stats then Joe Montana and, only an idiot would say Peyton is anywhere near Montana all time. Just like only an idiot would say Peyton is anywhere near Brady all time.

blacknell
09-27-2008, 07:41 PM
Stats mean absolutely nothing. Brady won 3 Super Bowls on teams that Peyton Manning would have been lucky to win 8 games with. That's what it all comes down to. Manning has been surrounded by talent his whole career and won 1 Super Bowl and the 1st time Brady had any talent he lead the team to an undefeated season and if it wasn't for 2 or 3 lucky plays on the last drive would have won another Super Bowl. Peyton Manning has better stats then Joe Montana and, only an idiot would say Peyton is anywhere near Montana all time. Just like only an idiot would say Peyton is anywhere near Brady all time.

Lets see please start a forum not here in the patriots forum and see how many people who think tom Brady is so much better than Manning.. I'll answer it for ya only Patriots fans think that

The Intimidator
09-27-2008, 07:43 PM
Wow, Manning's career passer rating is 94 compared to Brady's 93. That is a huge difference. :rolleyes: Also, you have to take into account that Manning's touchdown passes are higher than Brady's because Manning has had weapons since the first day he came into the league. He had Harrison and Wayne before Brady had anything close to a legitimate target here in New England. Sure, Troy Brown was a good player and he caught 198 passes from Brady in a two year span from 2001-2002, but he was anything but an elite playmaker. Brady has also never had a losing season, while Manning has had 2 losing seasons (1998, 2001). Brady won a higher percentage of games than Manning has as well. Brady is also undeniably better in the postseason, seeing that Manning is 7-7 and Brady is 14-3. Brady has 2 Super Bowl MVP's to Manning's 1. I don't know, Blacknell, I think that you're wrong once again. But I do wish you luck in winning a playoff game sometime soon.

The Intimidator
09-27-2008, 07:45 PM
so 7 out of 16 regular season games they played teams with a winning record what about the other 9 teams?
cincy 7-9
buffalo 7-9 played twice
jets 4-12 played twice
B-more 5-11
miami 1-15 played twice
teams in there divison had a record of 12-36 worst in the league overall teams faced record is 100-92 and you want me to believe thats a top NFL scheldule?

That schedule was confirmed as one of the toughest in NFL history, according to Elias Sports Bureau. So stick that in your pipe and :smoking:

blacknell
09-27-2008, 07:54 PM
i was doing a lil looking up guess who has a higher qb rating than both of them and more touchdowns than Brady in his first 2 seasons of playing and more yards in less games in those first 2 seasons and more wins......

The Intimidator
09-27-2008, 07:58 PM
i was doing a lil looking up guess who has a higher qb rating than both of them and more touchdowns than Brady in his first 2 seasons of playing and more yards in less games in those first 2 seasons and more wins......

Oooh oooh let me guess let me guess!!!! Is it Tony "I can't win a playoff game to save my life" Romo?

bagwell368
09-27-2008, 08:10 PM
actually Manning won NFL MVP twice 2003 and 2004 he also has a superbowl MVP award and he has been to the pro bowl 4 more years and dude manning has over 100 more td passed than brady and over 10000 more passing yards but manning did come in 2 years before him also he has a higher qb rating all proven stats look em up and i think its safe to say Manning is the best general in the league he is already top 5 QB ever and this is coming from a cowboys fan

Well, since he has 51 more career starts he ought to have more TD's then Brady.

I think you didn't read my post re Brady v Manning. Manning is a highly talented guy no doubt, with better weapons that Brady that have cost more and delivered less - both the total offensive costs and the costs of the QB's since Brady started to actually start in '01. For all that his QB rating is just a smidge more in regular season and 3-4 smidges less in the playoffs. You can have Manning and Romo - you'll never get anywhere with anyone here trying to "prove" Romo or Manning is better then Brady. It's already been proven.

The Intimidator
09-27-2008, 08:12 PM
well, since he has 51 more career starts he ought to have more td's then brady.

I think you didn't read my post re brady v manning. Manning is a highly talented guy no doubt, with better weapons that brady that have cost more and delivered less - both the total offensive costs and the costs of the qb's since brady started to actually start in '01. For all that his qb rating is just a smidge more in regular season and 3-4 smidges less in the playoffs. You can have manning and romo - you'll never get anywhere with anyone here trying to "prove" romo or manning is better then brady. It's already been proven.

pwned!!!!!!!

bagwell368
09-27-2008, 08:29 PM
Lets see please start a forum not here in the patriots forum and see how many people who think tom Brady is so much better than Manning.. I'll answer it for ya only Patriots fans think that

That's false, all you need to do is go to the comparisons page and about 3-6 pages down is a huge debate with many fans from many teams going both ways.

No Manning fan actually took on the Cold Hard Football URL on the topic I posted, and few dared to argue when I started bringing up Mannings pitiful performances in the playoffs in '03 and '04 against the Pats.

In Manning's career he has 5 games under 80 QB rating in the playoffs (39.6, 69.3, 35.5, 31.2, 60.9) ugh on top of the other crap stats he has in the playoffs which I already cited.

Brady who has played 3 more playoff games then Manning and has much better numbers as I have cited has 2 games under 70 QB rating (66.4, 57.6).

Brady has 6 games over 100 rating to Mannings 3 in the playoffs. What sort of field generalship is that? Give it up. Manning does less with more, that's the truth - like it or not.

So far Romo has looked unprepared for the playoffs putting up two losses against zero wins and 75.8 rating which is way down from Manning, and way way down from Brady. For all of his fancy regular season stats a guy that will turn 29 in April with only 3 seasons and 3 games behind him (and zero playoff wins) has a long way to go before he should be entered into any all time discussions.

Believe me young man, Roger Staubach and Troy Aikman were both a lot better QB's for your team. I think Romo is about even with Craig Morton at this point, and I'm not talking stats, I'm talking on the field, todays QB's have much better QB ratings due to the high percentage passes (West Coast Offense influence all over football) that are used now.

bagwell368
09-27-2008, 08:43 PM
so 7 out of 16 regular season games they played teams with a winning record what about the other 9 teams?
cincy 7-9
buffalo 7-9 played twice
jets 4-12 played twice
B-more 5-11
miami 1-15 played twice
teams in there divison had a record of 12-36 worst in the league overall teams faced record is 100-92 and you want me to believe thats a top NFL scheldule?

Firstly it wasn't 7 teams with winning records it was 7 teams that were playoff bound, which is a big difference.

The "immortal" '72 Dolphins had a schedule with teams that were .386 I believe it was, had 2 .500 teams, and one 10-6 team. Nobody talks about that today esp Mercury Morris and Don Shula.

Don't forget, the Pats accounted for 18 losses of their opponents, which is 9 games over the "average" team could have been expected to dish out.

The Division was/is weak, the Pats domiance since '01 has caused a lot of coaches/GM's/ and players to be moved in a vain attempt to staunch that. How can you blame them for making a shambles of the Division? Buffalo does appear to be moving ahead the quickest, the Jets will always suck until they sack Mangenius and the front office, Parcells will get his magic year next year, and 2 years later will be retiring after they fall back to 4-12.

The Intimidator
09-27-2008, 08:59 PM
Well said, once again.

BostonHooligan1
09-27-2008, 09:02 PM
actually Manning won NFL MVP twice 2003 and 2004 he also has a superbowl MVP award and he has been to the pro bowl 4 more years and dude manning has over 100 more td passed than brady and over 10000 more passing yards but manning did come in 2 years before him also he has a higher qb rating all proven stats look em up and i think its safe to say Manning is the best general in the league he is already top 5 QB ever and this is coming from a cowboys fan

I stand corrected yet again, i do have to say my good man, u have good stats. unfourtunatly i was unaware of the MVP of 03 and 04 as i was watching my team win the superbowl. And with the tds i was talking about in a season, which brady holds with 50. Also with the percentage rating i was talking last year, brady had a 68.9 percentage compared to Mannings 65.4 percentage rating. Also brady threw for 50 touchdowns just in the season compared to Mannings 31. Brady also threw for a total of 4806 yards that season compared to mannings 4040. Brady also had a better completion percentage in his first season starting with the pats in 01. With by far less weapons. Also Manning holds more interceptions thrown with 157 compared to brady's 86 total career int's. And also, manning has been in the league for 3 more years than brady. He started in 1998 with a 3-13 record compared to Tom bradys debut year of 01 with a record of i think 11-3..could be wrong so make sure to check that when you google the stats. My general point is With the increase in Tom brady's stats over a 7 year span he is bound to catch or even surpass manning. Manning is on the decline in his 10 year carrer as it shows with this year. he has looked horrible. Brady undoubtedly would have had another stat breaking year with finally having some weapons. but unfourtunately it will take untill next year before you get to see Brady out match manning again do to a cheap shot. also manning has three more years to be able to achieve more probowls. But you must remember, the probowl player are voted for, and brady and the pats seem to be the envy around the league, i mean come on, Manning over the 03 AND 04 superbowl champion qb? Purely isnt because of stats because brady is a 1.1 completion percentage rate difference to Manning who has 3 More starting years with a way better built offense, at the time.

blacknell
09-27-2008, 10:06 PM
I stand corrected yet again, i do have to say my good man, u have good stats. unfourtunatly i was unaware of the MVP of 03 and 04 as i was watching my team win the superbowl. And with the tds i was talking about in a season, which brady holds with 50. Also with the percentage rating i was talking last year, brady had a 68.9 percentage compared to Mannings 65.4 percentage rating. Also brady threw for 50 touchdowns just in the season compared to Mannings 31. Brady also threw for a total of 4806 yards that season compared to mannings 4040. Brady also had a better completion percentage in his first season starting with the pats in 01. With by far less weapons. Also Manning holds more interceptions thrown with 157 compared to brady's 86 total career int's. And also, manning has been in the league for 3 more years than brady. He started in 1998 with a 3-13 record compared to Tom bradys debut year of 01 with a record of i think 11-3..could be wrong so make sure to check that when you google the stats. My general point is With the increase in Tom brady's stats over a 7 year span he is bound to catch or even surpass manning. Manning is on the decline in his 10 year carrer as it shows with this year. he has looked horrible. Brady undoubtedly would have had another stat breaking year with finally having some weapons. but unfourtunately it will take untill next year before you get to see Brady out match manning again do to a cheap shot. also manning has three more years to be able to achieve more probowls. But you must remember, the probowl player are voted for, and brady and the pats seem to be the envy around the league, i mean come on, Manning over the 03 AND 04 superbowl champion qb? Purely isnt because of stats because brady is a 1.1 completion percentage rate difference to Manning who has 3 More starting years with a way better built offense, at the time.

31??? manning threw 49 a few years ago Brady had a better year last year but manning has had a better career.. Out here in texas i've never heard anyone say Brady is better and lets face it i think we know more about football down here basically what it all boils down to is ya'll are patriot fans so ya'll will be bias. Just because Brady won 3 superbowls doesn't make him a better QB he had a horrible defense a few years in a row which caused lost games not him if winning superbowls made you a great QB then Great Dan Marino is horrible than huh lol and Terry Bradshaw the second best QB in history behinde montana. Also lets not forget Manning built the colts into a power house there was a reason he was the #1 pick

ERLynx
09-27-2008, 10:35 PM
You are responding to the wrong person, smart guy.

BostonHooligan1
09-27-2008, 10:53 PM
31??? manning threw 49 a few years ago Brady had a better year last year but manning has had a better career.. Out here in texas i've never heard anyone say Brady is better and lets face it i think we know more about football down here basically what it all boils down to is ya'll are patriot fans so ya'll will be bias. Just because Brady won 3 superbowls doesn't make him a better QB he had a horrible defense a few years in a row which caused lost games not him if winning superbowls made you a great QB then Great Dan Marino is horrible than huh lol and Terry Bradshaw the second best QB in history behinde montana. Also lets not forget Manning built the colts into a power house there was a reason he was the #1 pick

the only thing "y'all" (lol) dallas fans know better about in football than N.E fans lately is how to lose. WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME A TEXAS TEAM WON A PLAYOFF GAME? and anyways when Manning threw for those 49 touchdown in 04 he still lost TO BRADY in the post season.He also had a completion rating of 67. which brady has thrown for 50 with a rating of 68.9. just in a season...not to mention he passed for 2 more in the post season. Manning also went 12-4 that year compared to 18-1. And we at least made it to the superbowl.If you dont count winning championships as a way you determine a good player than what the hell are you doing watchin sports. You cant say with a straight face that the guy who brought his team to 1 superbowl in 10 years is a better leader than a guy who has brought his team to 4 superbowls in 7 years winning 3. Its obvious Brady is more of a field general. And no payton did not BUILD A POWER HOUSE, he was brought into one...and it took him almost 8 years to win a superbowl. And exactly what you said, he had a bad defense and it wasnt his fault he lost, but on the other hand...BRADY had a bad defense and its his fault they WON. You prove my own point. Manning is only 1.1 percentage points ahead of brady in career stats....with three more years in the league....your better to stay in texas and argue with people who are on "YALLS" level....the cowboys were a great team in the 90's and look great now...but they will find a way to lose like they have in the last 10-12 years. Dont be mad becasue the pats are the new dynasty. And we already know how intelligent people from texas are...hell look at bush. And for a dallas fan your alot more interested in Manning...maybe we must assume your a bandwagon dallas fan since the colts suck this year..... mhhmm.... dallas smarter than N.E..hahah if the fans are smarter maybe you should become coaches..since we whooped you last year... maybe the coach had been sippin on PAPY'S MOONSHINE...YEEEHHAAAA.

(all in good fun, i respect everyones opinion and no way mean to insult anyone...just having a little fun ripping on blacknell, which i assume he'll give right back ;) great debate my friend i have enjoyed it.)

bagwell368
09-27-2008, 11:17 PM
31??? manning threw 49 a few years ago Brady had a better year last year but manning has had a better career.. Out here in texas i've never heard anyone say Brady is better and lets face it i think we know more about football down here basically what it all boils down to is ya'll are patriot fans so ya'll will be bias. Just because Brady won 3 superbowls doesn't make him a better QB he had a horrible defense a few years in a row which caused lost games not him if winning superbowls made you a great QB then Great Dan Marino is horrible than huh lol and Terry Bradshaw the second best QB in history behinde montana. Also lets not forget Manning built the colts into a power house there was a reason he was the #1 pick

I notice you are evading the issues such as:

Mannings inferior performance in the playoffs compared to Brady.

Mannings pay and that of his offense compared to Brady and that Pats (I.E. more bang for the buck out of Brady and the Pats) means at the very least better coaching, if not a better player in Brady.

SB rings are not everything, clearly guys like Steve Young, Marino, and Manning are all better then Bradshaw was.

Er... Manning didn't build the Colts into anything. That was Bill Polian I guess you don't know so much after all. Plus you still haven't addressed Mannings hideous playoff games in Foxboro in '03 and '04 when he appeared to weep (after the 2nd and 3rd Law picks in '03) in frustration and pique (look that up).

You ain't never gonna get satisfaction here cow poke, but you are sure welcome to keep spewing - after all we may be saving some other poor folk on some other board from your "logic".

The Intimidator
09-28-2008, 12:07 AM
I notice you are evading the issues such as:

Mannings inferior performance in the playoffs compared to Brady.

Mannings pay and that of his offense compared to Brady and that Pats (I.E. more bang for the buck out of Brady and the Pats) means at the very least better coaching, if not a better player in Brady.

SB rings are not everything, clearly guys like Steve Young, Marino, and Manning are all better then Bradshaw was.

Er... Manning didn't build the Colts into anything. That was Bill Polian I guess you don't know so much after all. Plus you still haven't addressed Mannings hideous playoff games in Foxboro in '03 and '04 when he appeared to weep (after the 2nd and 3rd Law picks in '03) in frustration and pique (look that up).

You ain't never gonna get satisfaction here cow poke, but you are sure welcome to keep spewing - after all we may be saving some other poor folk on some other board from your "logic".

You might just have to give up, Bagwell. Blacknell doesn't seem to realize that he's wrong.

Crickr
09-28-2008, 09:07 AM
Guys Blacknel has his head to far up his arse to think anything more then Texas football and his own opinion. Stats and records mean nothing to him as he is blind.

bagwell368
09-28-2008, 09:26 AM
You might just have to give up, Bagwell. Blacknell doesn't seem to realize that he's wrong.

Oh I agree, I'm just in one of those pull the wings off the fly modes lately.

BTW, thanks a lot for the kind comments, it's really nice. I don't know where the '08 Pats are headed, but, I'm going for the ride as I have for the past 41 years.

The Intimidator
09-28-2008, 09:41 AM
Oh I agree, I'm just in one of those pull the wings off the fly modes lately.

BTW, thanks a lot for the kind comments, it's really nice. I don't know where the '08 Pats are headed, but, I'm going for the ride as I have for the past 41 years.

Exactly. We need to support the Pats through thick and thin, and this is one of those times.

ERLynx
09-28-2008, 05:18 PM
"Pique" is a terrific word. It's also Ladanian Tomlinson's middle name.

The Intimidator
09-28-2008, 06:57 PM
"Pique" is a terrific word. It's also Ladanian Tomlinson's middle name.

:confused:

elements1985
09-28-2008, 07:15 PM
31??? manning threw 49 a few years ago Brady had a better year last year but manning has had a better career.. Out here in texas i've never heard anyone say Brady is better and lets face it i think we know more about football down here basically what it all boils down to is ya'll are patriot fans so ya'll will be bias. Just because Brady won 3 superbowls doesn't make him a better QB he had a horrible defense a few years in a row which caused lost games not him if winning superbowls made you a great QB then Great Dan Marino is horrible than huh lol and Terry Bradshaw the second best QB in history behinde montana. Also lets not forget Manning built the colts into a power house there was a reason he was the #1 pick

I'll bet you that your Cowboys have a shorter window to win than the Patriots. Dallas would be nothing without Bill Parcells, and now that he's not building the team, you guys have a 2-3 year window. The Patriots, on the other hand, are in the process of semi-rebuilding, not declining. We're re-tooling. You'll be lucky to get one Super Bowl, let alone three.

bagwell368
09-28-2008, 07:42 PM
I wonder if our boy pal will take a few days off to lick his wounds after the mighty Redskins beat his wonder team on their home turf. Think that those Texas brainiacs are making the same point on the boy blogs? You know what, I don't care. As an old AFL guy I have always hated the NFC (except the Walsh 49'ers), and glory in every victory the AFC hangs on them in the SB.

The Intimidator
09-28-2008, 07:49 PM
Yeah, I was going to ask that same question. The Cowboys' offense looked UGLY today hahaha.

blacknell
09-28-2008, 08:14 PM
naw my good man i'm back i see we lost 26-24 rival game to the redskins better my mightly cowboys lost but i never said they would go 19-0 and they didn't get blown out by the worst team in the league they just got out played plain and simple in texas we don't make excuses like N.E people and i just had a question how are the cowboys on the decline?
O yea a while back somebody told me i couldn't bait you N.E fans well guess what lol? i did, i know YALL love me in here lol yall check this forum just to see if i post any to keep this fire going..This thread wasn't even about Manning and Brady or the cowboys lol...O by the way N.E still sucks

elements1985
09-28-2008, 08:23 PM
Your defense is pathetic and your team has a 2-year window. Later.

BostonHooligan1
09-28-2008, 08:34 PM
naw my good man i'm back i see we lost 26-24 rival game to the redskins better my mightly cowboys lost but i never said they would go 19-0 and they didn't get blown out by the worst team in the league they just got out played plain and simple in texas we don't make excuses like N.E people and i just had a question how are the cowboys on the decline?
O yea a while back somebody told me i couldn't bait you N.E fans well guess what lol? i did, i know YALL love me in here lol yall check this forum just to see if i post any to keep this fire going..This thread wasn't even about Manning and Brady or the cowboys lol...O by the way N.E still sucks

i dont think the cowboys are on a decline but definetly makes me think twice about how good they are, T.O had quite a few dropped passes. Washington STUFFED the running game, and Moss was burning the secondary, but all in all a good game. Especially when the cowboys end up losing.... and if the pats STILL suck...what does that mean for dallas, being as we whooped ur behinds last year? And you have no excuses, ur starting quarterback played, and still lost.... so therefor u guyz sucked. At least we have a un-expierenced QB to blame.... hahahah. And come on..everyone knew that cowboys arent good enough to go 19-0, or even 16-0..only one team was that good...oh yeah the team u said sucked...

BTownTeamsRKing
09-28-2008, 08:44 PM
naw my good man i'm back i see we lost 26-24 rival game to the redskins better my mightly cowboys lost but i never said they would go 19-0 and they didn't get blown out by the worst team in the league they just got out played plain and simple in texas we don't make excuses like N.E people and i just had a question how are the cowboys on the decline?
O yea a while back somebody told me i couldn't bait you N.E fans well guess what lol? i did, i know YALL love me in here lol yall check this forum just to see if i post any to keep this fire going..This thread wasn't even about Manning and Brady or the cowboys lol...O by the way N.E still sucks

nothing u said matters, heres wat does.

COWBOYS LOST.

blacknell
09-28-2008, 09:06 PM
i dont think the cowboys are on a decline but definetly makes me think twice about how good they are, T.O had quite a few dropped passes. Washington STUFFED the running game, and Moss was burning the secondary, but all in all a good game. Especially when the cowboys end up losing.... and if the pats STILL suck...what does that mean for dallas, being as we whooped ur behinds last year? And you have no excuses, ur starting quarterback played, and still lost.... so therefor u guyz sucked. At least we have a un-expierenced QB to blame.... hahahah. And come on..everyone knew that cowboys arent good enough to go 19-0, or even 16-0..only one team was that good...oh yeah the team u said sucked...

going 18-0 means nothing are 16-0 you know why they lost the superbowl nobody cares who finishes second and nobody cares about last year they can't win a superbowl based on what they did last year look how many players lost from the team the pats will be lucky to make the playoffs at all but dallas will be there

BTownTeamsRKing
09-28-2008, 09:18 PM
going 18-0 means nothing are 16-0 you know why they lost the superbowl nobody cares who finishes second and nobody cares about last year they can't win a superbowl based on what they did last year look how many players lost from the team the pats will be lucky to make the playoffs at all but dallas will be there

u will be seeing that 16-0 regular season mark forever. every time a team is undefeated past week 8, u will see it on every football network.

it does mean something; its another accomplishment.

3 Super Bowl Wins, 4 Appearnces
4 AFC titles, 5 Appearences
21 Game win Streak
21 Game Regular Season Win Streak
16-0 Regular Season.

All since 2001. what have the cowboys done lately?

blacknell
09-28-2008, 09:25 PM
the 72 dolphins are remembered because they also won the superbowl

bagwell368
09-28-2008, 11:00 PM
the 72 dolphins are remembered because they also won the superbowl

There is a news flash, what the hell did we do before you came here to save us? BTW with so few posts in PSD, why so many here, get drummed out of the 'Boys page?

Still waiting for an answer to why Manning sucks so much in the playoffs? You keep talking about how great the Boys are going to do in the playoffs (should do well this year, its the NFC after all...).

Maybe for all your talk you don't really understand that the post season comes after the regular season, if you did, you would have respect and reverence for a team that is mighty compared to not only yours but all others in the NFL teams since the end of the 2000 season, they have the records, the hardware and the reverence of those with brains such as Boomer Esiason - guess he must not be from Texas...

cmoneytakemoney
09-29-2008, 01:27 AM
the 72 dolphins are remembered because they also won the superbowl

What happened to your Cowboys? LOL. The Skins smacked them across the mouth.

The Intimidator
09-29-2008, 02:19 AM
the 72 dolphins are remembered because they also won the superbowl

What? They did? Holy **** I had no idea that the 72 Dolphins won the Super Bowl...where have I been?

BTownTeamsRKing
09-29-2008, 09:35 AM
the 72 dolphins are remembered because they also won the superbowl

if u gonna come in here and talk ****, then at least come with somethin better than this.

blacknell
09-29-2008, 04:01 PM
There is a news flash, what the hell did we do before you came here to save us? BTW with so few posts in PSD, why so many here, get drummed out of the 'Boys page?

Still waiting for an answer to why Manning sucks so much in the playoffs? You keep talking about how great the Boys are going to do in the playoffs (should do well this year, its the NFC after all...).

Maybe for all your talk you don't really understand that the post season comes after the regular season, if you did, you would have respect and reverence for a team that is mighty compared to not only yours but all others in the NFL teams since the end of the 2000 season, they have the records, the hardware and the reverence of those with brains such as Boomer Esiason - guess he must not be from Texas...

buff bagwell what division in the NFL i better than the NFC East? NONE Manning has a superbowl so he must not suck so much in the playoffs

cmoneytakemoney
09-29-2008, 04:34 PM
buff bagwell what division in the NFL i better than the NFC East? NONE Manning has a superbowl so he must not suck so much in the playoffs

Why don't you do me a favor and stay outta this forum until Tony Romo wins a Super Bowl and, from the way things looked yesterday that just is never going to happen.

BostonHooligan1
09-29-2008, 05:02 PM
buff bagwell what division in the NFL i better than the NFC East? NONE Manning has a superbowl so he must not suck so much in the playoffs


???arent you the same guy who said winning championships doesnt make you a good player? and yet here u are saying that because manning won one ring he doesnt suck??? hmmm sounds like ur a hipocrit. And just to let u know no one is better than the NFC EAST so far. Its only week 5 and if the pats win against 49ers, they have the same record as cowboys. Im sorry but your bareback mountain boys arent as good as you think..as proven by the defeat by your rival in your stadium. With your starting Q.B. maybe u can eat a lil piece of humble pie...if they serve that down there.

The Intimidator
09-29-2008, 05:58 PM
I decree that blacknell cannot post in here until Romo goes one game without throwing a dumb interception...

bagwell368
09-29-2008, 10:21 PM
buff bagwell what division in the NFL i better than the NFC East? NONE Manning has a superbowl so he must not suck so much in the playoffs

NFC East is good, rest of NFC which the "boys" also have games against tends to be weak.

Manning has one SB - but he must not suck so much? But in his career he has sucked compared to Brady in the playoffs - so if he is worse then Brady what does that make Brady - god - or are you just stubborn when faced with clear facts?

No amount of one liners (just one is all you have?) is going to prove anything on this topic, I already supplied you with the stats Mr. Texas - yet you seem unable or unwilling to do anything with it.

Manning makes less with more, Brady makes more with less, and Romo is too busy with his chicks to do anything in the post season. Thanks for checking in.

cowboys8
09-30-2008, 12:50 AM
NFC East is good, rest of NFC which the "boys" also have games against tends to be weak.

Manning has one SB - but he must not suck so much? But in his career he has sucked compared to Brady in the playoffs - so if he is worse then Brady what does that make Brady - god - or are you just stubborn when faced with clear facts?

No amount of one liners (just one is all you have?) is going to prove anything on this topic, I already supplied you with the stats Mr. Texas - yet you seem unable or unwilling to do anything with it.

Manning makes less with more, Brady makes more with less, and Romo is too busy with his chicks to do anything in the post season. Thanks for checking in.
Cowboys may have not won a playoff game w/Romo but the Pats will be remembered as the biggest choke artists in NFL history.That is a topic that can be argued or questioned,the Tom Brady era will go down as one of the best but best known for the Super Bowl flop.Not saying by any means that the Pats suck even w/Brady out,Its only one loss and a long season.Lookin at AFC it is up for grabs.Good Luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Intimidator
09-30-2008, 02:04 AM
Cowboys may have not won a playoff game w/Romo but the Pats will be remembered as the biggest choke artists in NFL history.That is a topic that can be argued or questioned,the Tom Brady era will go down as one of the best but best known for the Super Bowl flop.Not saying by any means that the Pats suck even w/Brady out,Its only one loss and a long season.Lookin at AFC it is up for grabs.Good Luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Choke? Get your facts straight buddy. The Giants played a great game in that Super Bowl, and Brady still managed to put the Pats in front with a little more than 2 minutes to go. Without one fluke pass to Tyree, the Pats go 19-0. That game is not the definition of a choke. What Romo did against the Giants earlier that postseason was indeed a choke.

Wake's Fastball
09-30-2008, 11:21 AM
Choke? Get your facts straight buddy. The Giants played a great game in that Super Bowl, and Brady still managed to put the Pats in front with a little more than 2 minutes to go. Without one fluke pass to Tyree, the Pats go 19-0. That game is not the definition of a choke. What Romo did against the Giants earlier that postseason was indeed a choke.

I really hate to add fuel to the fire, but his botched snap against the Seahawks the year before was a bigger goof.

bagwell368
09-30-2008, 01:11 PM
I really hate to add fuel to the fire, but his botched snap against the Seahawks the year before was a bigger goof.

good one.... I've got a ditty, it goes like this:



feed the troll, starve the troll, til there ain't a troll no more.

feed the troll, starve the troll, til there ain't no troll no more...


my appologies to Alvin Lee and 10 Years Afer. Heyya troll, going to drink some Lone Star (even the beer in Texas blows), and have some baby backs as you wonder how you can argue that Romo in tears after the snap isn't the same thing as Manning in tears in Foxboro.

No wonder you like Manning so much - another weak ***** QB from an over rated dome team. You'all come on up to Foxboro in January for a game with that bunch of pansies of yours, and then we'll talk, while you and Romo cry after we slap your team silly.

Super.
09-30-2008, 01:41 PM
Being a fan doesn't require that you just blindly go into every season believing that your team is going to win it all. That's just homerism... It’s about supporting your team even when you know they don’t have a chance…

YES IT DOES! ask some of the real fans from St. Louis...I bet you any REAL fan there still thinks his team is gonan win the superbowl (ok well maybe the insane ones =), personally what is faith with blind and UNWAIVERING devotion

cowboys8
09-30-2008, 02:26 PM
Choke? Get your facts straight buddy. The Giants played a great game in that Super Bowl, and Brady still managed to put the Pats in front with a little more than 2 minutes to go. Without one fluke pass to Tyree, the Pats go 19-0. That game is not the definition of a choke. What Romo did against the Giants earlier that postseason was indeed a choke.

I believe i did get the facts straight,pats lost,choked.Ahead 2 min or not still lost the game,Romo did choke i admit it but nothing compares to the Pats/Brady choke in the SB not an argueable fact.Fluke pass he caught it and pats d still had a chance to stop the giants didn't because they choked.I would hate to admit it to but the fact is that is the biggest choke in NFL HISTORY:D

cowboys8
09-30-2008, 02:29 PM
good one.... I've got a ditty, it goes like this:



feed the troll, starve the troll, til there ain't a troll no more.

feed the troll, starve the troll, til there ain't no troll no more...


my appologies to Alvin Lee and 10 Years Afer. Heyya troll, going to drink some Lone Star (even the beer in Texas blows), and have some baby backs as you wonder how you can argue that Romo in tears after the snap isn't the same thing as Manning in tears in Foxboro.

No wonder you like Manning so much - another weak ***** QB from an over rated dome team. You'all come on up to Foxboro in January for a game with that bunch of pansies of yours, and then we'll talk, while you and Romo cry after we slap your team silly.

You make the most goofy posts.Your team cheated and still couldn't win the big game.Belicheat needed more video on the giants offense i guess;)

cmoneytakemoney
09-30-2008, 02:41 PM
You make the most goofy posts.Your team cheated and still couldn't win the big game.Belicheat needed more video on the giants offense i guess;)

I guarantee that Tony Romo and your Cowboys will never win a Super Bowl. They'll be lucky to get out of the Wild Card Round because there's no way they're winning the division over the Giants and Eagles and, next year the Patriots will win it again so, looks like your routing for a team that doesn't have a chance. That sucks to be you.

cowboys8
09-30-2008, 03:07 PM
I guarantee that Tony Romo and your Cowboys will never win a Super Bowl. They'll be lucky to get out of the Wild Card Round because there's no way they're winning the division over the Giants and Eagles and, next year the Patriots will win it again so, looks like your routing for a team that doesn't have a chance. That sucks to be you.

Win it again(like last year)check your info.You always know when what your saying is right when someone gets flustered.Time will tell I guess I bet you guaranteed that NE was going to win it all last year as well.My guess is you don't gamble alot(hopefully):cry:

BostonHooligan1
09-30-2008, 04:24 PM
Win it again(like last year)check your info.You always know when what your saying is right when someone gets flustered.Time will tell I guess I bet you guaranteed that NE was going to win it all last year as well.My guess is you don't gamble alot(hopefully):cry:

well thats funny being as you guys didnt even make it out of the first round against the giants, who u were heavily favored over, and i bet when u herd that u thought u were going all the way. And who blames you...i mean if u guys only got the ball to T.O more u'd win right? hahahaha i tell u what i will bet on...how many dropped passes T.O will have this year.... but dont get mad at romo....thats his quarterback man... :cry:

cmoneytakemoney
09-30-2008, 04:41 PM
Win it again(like last year)check your info.You always know when what your saying is right when someone gets flustered.Time will tell I guess I bet you guaranteed that NE was going to win it all last year as well.My guess is you don't gamble alot(hopefully):cry:

Be prepared to see another interview with T.O. crying like a girl come playoff time.

bagwell368
09-30-2008, 07:01 PM
I hear and read an unusual amount of opinion from people/places I trust that says O'Connell is going to start if Cassel can't get it done against SF or SD.

Dunno if it is because they don't like Cassel or really like O'Connell (nice name for a NE QB dontcha think?) - or probably some of both, but if they do they would seem to be throwing the dice.

Cassel is bound to be gone no matter what at the end of the year, and the kid can't expect to take Bradys job for good, so - maybe this is the right idea.... at least we know if O'Connell is the heir or not.



Oh yeah: don't feed the troll

ERLynx
09-30-2008, 07:41 PM
enough playing into this guys baits. what else is going on around here?

cowboys8
09-30-2008, 08:16 PM
Be prepared to see another interview with T.O. crying like a girl come playoff time.

Thank you for proving my point.:clap:Its also nice when a troll can't respond cause you can't argue facts

Shock & Awe....
09-30-2008, 11:35 PM
YES IT DOES! ask some of the real fans from St. Louis...I bet you any REAL fan there still thinks his team is gonan win the superbowl (ok well maybe the insane ones =), personally what is faith with blind and UNWAIVERING devotion

I don't see how 'unwavering devotion' correlates with being foolish enough to think your team is going to win it every year... I guess, we'll just have to disagree...

The Intimidator
10-01-2008, 08:32 PM
Cowboys8 is secretly still in pain over the Pats routing the "Boys" 48-27 last year...

cowboys8
10-01-2008, 08:37 PM
Cowboys8 is secretly still in pain over the Pats routing the "Boys" 48-27 last year...

Not as much pain as Brady choking in Super Bowl:cry:

blacknell
10-01-2008, 09:26 PM
Choke? Get your facts straight buddy. The Giants played a great game in that Super Bowl, and Brady still managed to put the Pats in front with a little more than 2 minutes to go. Without one fluke pass to Tyree, the Pats go 19-0. That game is not the definition of a choke. What Romo did against the Giants earlier that postseason was indeed a choke.

no brady choked cuz they lost and the giants let it be known that Brady can't do **** when he is blitzed like the giants did

ERLynx
10-02-2008, 09:38 AM
this thread is still open? haha wow.

The Intimidator
10-02-2008, 10:28 AM
no brady choked cuz they lost and the giants let it be known that Brady can't do **** when he is blitzed like the giants did

Did you watch the Super Bowl? Brady put the Patriots ahead late in the fourth quarter. Let me repeat myself for the mentally challenged people from Texas: Brady put the Patriots ahead late in the fourth quarter. So, as much as the Giants blitzed, Brady still got it done when he had to. And, btw, what QB does particularly well when he is being blitzed constantly? Brady may not have been able to put up many points, but he didn't turn the ball over at all. The same cannot be said for your boy Romo, who would undoubtedly throw 2 or 3 picks if he was faced with the same blitzing from the Giants.

dolphins4life
10-02-2008, 11:17 AM
As a dolphin fan, i can't stand the patriots. I do respect Tom Brady though. I love to hate him, but he IS freakin awesome, i wish we had him. It is amazing how losing just Brady affects the whole team. As far as the playoffs go, if we beat you guys like a drum 38-13 don't be looking to go far.
P.S. There is a "WILDCAT" loose

bagwell368
10-02-2008, 12:10 PM
Did you watch the Super Bowl? Brady put the Patriots ahead late in the fourth quarter. Let me repeat myself for the mentally challenged people from Texas: Brady put the Patriots ahead late in the fourth quarter. So, as much as the Giants blitzed, Brady still got it done when he had to. And, btw, what QB does particularly well when he is being blitzed constantly? Brady may not have been able to put up many points, but he didn't turn the ball over at all. The same cannot be said for your boy Romo, who would undoubtedly throw 2 or 3 picks if he was faced with the same blitzing from the Giants.

Let's put it this way: Brady's QB rating in the last SB is higher then Mr. Peyton Mannings career playoff QB rating (and Mannings blah 7-7 record vs. Bradys 14-3 record should always make him and his fans blush with shame)

blacknell
10-02-2008, 12:18 PM
Let's put it this way: Brady's QB rating in the last SB is higher then Mr. Peyton Mannings career playoff QB rating (and Mannings blah 7-7 record vs. Bradys 14-3 record should always make him and his fans blush with shame)

none of that matters they LOST noone cares he had them ahead in the fourth he LOST plain and simple.. AS i recall the ya'll tend to bring up Romo dropping the field goal snap 2 years ago but you fail to realize how he drove the cowboys down the field to get up there

pc4celts39
10-02-2008, 12:54 PM
no brady choked cuz they lost and the giants let it be known that Brady can't do **** when he is blitzed like the giants did

ur right about brady not being productive when being blitzed THAT heavily, but who is, brady didnt choke the giant's dline just did a fantastic job. U cant compare romo dropping the ball to brady having an average game because of legitimate pressure. Maybe if romo had 3 or 4 of the best pass rushers in the game coming at him he would hav had an excuse

kbjohnson26
10-02-2008, 01:05 PM
Isnt the thread about Cassel? We're alitlle off-topic.


I don't see why all the Cassel negativity. I think he has done a fine job taking over. Instead of some guy coming in slinging the ball all over the place throwing INT's. I want to see what he is going to look like this week. I think we may see more deep balls.

Securb
10-02-2008, 01:09 PM
Isnt the thread about Cassel? We're alitlle off-topic.


I don't see why all the Cassel negativity. I think he has done a fine job taking over. Instead of some guy coming in slinging the ball all over the place throwing INT's. I want to see what he is going to look like this week. I think we may see more deep balls.


As a Dolphin fan I am absolutlly thrilled with Cassel :dance:

cowboys8
10-02-2008, 04:03 PM
Did you watch the Super Bowl? Brady put the Patriots ahead late in the fourth quarter. Let me repeat myself for the mentally challenged people from Texas: Brady put the Patriots ahead late in the fourth quarter. So, as much as the Giants blitzed, Brady still got it done when he had to. And, btw, what QB does particularly well when he is being blitzed constantly? Brady may not have been able to put up many points, but he didn't turn the ball over at all. The same cannot be said for your boy Romo, who would undoubtedly throw 2 or 3 picks if he was faced with the same blitzing from the Giants.

You did watch and know they still LOST.He apparantly didn't do enough to win the game.If he was faced w/ same blitzing he faces them twice a year.It doesn't matter what Brady did in that game if he was a perfect 100% comp,perfect QB rating,they still LOST THE BIG GAME:)

BostonHooligan1
10-02-2008, 05:10 PM
none of that matters they LOST noone cares he had them ahead in the fourth he LOST plain and simple.. AS i recall the ya'll tend to bring up Romo dropping the field goal snap 2 years ago but you fail to realize how he drove the cowboys down the field to get up there

dude ur just talking in a circle... read what u just said...no one cares he still lost.... then u go on to say what romo did before he dropped the ball....take your own advice...no one cares u still lost.... guess those texas boys are alot dumber than they think. Must be something in the water.... like T.O saying he needs to get tha ball more?? he got it 18 times? and dropped what 7 of them? Wow..i think the stupidity is spreading through texas like a hurricane...hahaha

The Intimidator
10-02-2008, 05:30 PM
You did watch and know they still LOST.He apparantly didn't do enough to win the game.If he was faced w/ same blitzing he faces them twice a year.It doesn't matter what Brady did in that game if he was a perfect 100% comp,perfect QB rating,they still LOST THE BIG GAME:)

Did you read my post? I was responding to blacknell's comment, which was that Brady choked in the Super Bowl, which he did not. Putting your team AHEAD with 2 minutes to go in the game is NOT choking. Brady does not play defense. Brady didn't give up the touchdown to Burress with 20 or so seconds left. Let me repeat: Brady did not choke. The team may have lost, but BRADY, the person I was talking about, did NOT choke. Now go back to the Cowboys forum where you belong.

cowboys8
10-02-2008, 05:39 PM
Did you read my post? I was responding to blacknell's comment, which was that Brady choked in the Super Bowl, which he did not. Putting your team AHEAD with 2 minutes to go in the game is NOT choking. Brady does not play defense. Brady didn't give up the touchdown to Burress with 20 or so seconds left. Let me repeat: Brady did not choke. The team may have lost, but BRADY, the person I was talking about, did NOT choke. Now go back to the Cowboys forum where you belong.

:laugh:

The Intimidator
10-02-2008, 07:21 PM
:laugh:

Is that always your response when you know that you're wrong?

cowboys8
10-02-2008, 07:48 PM
Is that always your response when you know that you're wrong?

My response to someone when they can't admit there wrong.:jumpy:

blacknell
10-02-2008, 08:13 PM
[QUOTE=BostonHooligan1;6859274]dude ur just talking in a circle... read what u just said...no one cares he still lost.... then u go on to say what romo did before he dropped the ball....take your own advice...no one cares u still lost.... guess those texas boys are alot dumber than they think. Must be something in the water.... like T.O saying he needs to get tha ball more?? he got it 18 times? and dropped what 7 of them? Wow..i think the stupidity is spreading through texas like a hurricane...hahaha[/QUOte

maybe people in Boston must be dumb because i was making a comparison to the Tom Brady drove NE down the field comment and you proved my point right nobody cares because dallas lost just like nobody cares NE lost no matter what you say brady did he choked and NE lost

blacknell
10-02-2008, 08:18 PM
hey bring up that big lead brady blew when they lost to the colts.... you know the year Manning won the superbowl

The Intimidator
10-02-2008, 09:24 PM
Do you realize that Tom Brady doesn't play defense? He led the Pats to 27 points in that game, (the other 7 came on an Asante Samuel interception return) and ONCE AGAIN put the Pats ahead late in the fourth quarter. It is NOT Tom Brady's fault that the defense allowed the Colts to score with about 1 minute to go. The team blew the lead late, Tom Brady did not single-handedly choke away either of the games that you are refering to. By your ******** logic, every time a team loses a game, the QB is the person who "chokes", and is the reason for the loss.

Bottom Line:

Tom Brady: 14-3 in postseason, 3 Super Bowls, 4 AFC Championships

Peyton Manning: 7-7 in postseason, 1 Super Bowl, 1 AFC Championship

Tony Romo: 0-2 in postseason, 0 Super Bowls, 0 NFC Championships, 1 botched snap

Choke on that.

Patsfreak1776
10-02-2008, 11:14 PM
Nice that you can tell that after 2 1/2 games with Cassel. I think things will be very different at about Week 10 when the Pats are 7-3 and in first. Just calm down. And on the other subject.....Romo is just like T.O.....the most overrated players in the history of the NFL.

blacknell
10-03-2008, 12:14 AM
Nice that you can tell that after 2 1/2 games with Cassel. I think things will be very different at about Week 10 when the Pats are 7-3 and in first. Just calm down. And on the other subject.....Romo is just like T.O.....the most overrated players in the history of the NFL.

How is Romo overrated please explain this two me...He came off the bench 2 years ago and took a .500 team to the playoffs and then won 13 games the next season and T.O being overrated man you just shutup he is #2 all time in touchdown recptions but i guess thats overrated..

blacknell
10-03-2008, 12:24 AM
Do you realize that Tom Brady doesn't play defense? He led the Pats to 27 points in that game, (the other 7 came on an Asante Samuel interception return) and ONCE AGAIN put the Pats ahead late in the fourth quarter. It is NOT Tom Brady's fault that the defense allowed the Colts to score with about 1 minute to go. The team blew the lead late, Tom Brady did not single-handedly choke away either of the games that you are refering to. By your ******** logic, every time a team loses a game, the QB is the person who "chokes", and is the reason for the loss.

Bottom Line:

Tom Brady: 14-3 in postseason, 3 Super Bowls, 4 AFC Championships

Peyton Manning: 7-7 in postseason, 1 Super Bowl, 1 AFC Championship

Tony Romo: 0-2 in postseason, 0 Super Bowls, 0 NFC Championships, 1 botched snap

Choke on that.

all thats good and all seeing Romo has only played in 2 seasons which is why he doesn't have 17 playoff games under his belt i notice you back peddle on your statments alot everytime we talk about the pats loosing its always the defense but when the colts or Cowboys loose its there star QB's huh? How bout you just shutup with that now. Also seeing that you really get cowboy games in Boston you don't know how Romo performs every week as i do cuz i see every game if you did you would know last season Crayton dropped a pass which he would have scored but we had to punt and the giants last scoring drive Reeves (the worst corner to ever play football) gave up a huge pass play then followed that play up with a 15 yard face mask which is why we lost not because of Romo who threw 0 interceptions and 0 fumbles.... The seahawks game yea he fumbled the snap but was perfect every other aspect of the game and if gramitica would have blocked Romo would have scored on the snap so and he threw 0 interceptions that game also so don't make it seem like Romo sucks and makes huge plays every week..Now NE loosing the big league they had against the Colts Brady's fault there defense has nothing to do with him not scoring on offense maybe it was that interception he threw

Patsfreak1776
10-03-2008, 12:43 AM
How is Romo overrated please explain this two me...He came off the bench 2 years ago and took a .500 team to the playoffs and then won 13 games the next season and T.O being overrated man you just shutup he is #2 all time in touchdown recptions but i guess thats overrated..

OK...Romo , nice job handling the snap on a FG try...INT in last year's playoff game...Proven choke in the big games...T.O. loves to talk but can never deliver in a big game. Ya he can get 3 TDs in a game against the Dolphins but in a big gamee, he lets it run down his leg....

BostonHooligan1
10-03-2008, 01:14 AM
Originally posted by blacknell
maybe people in Boston must be dumb because i was making a comparison to the Tom Brady drove NE down the field comment and you proved my point right nobody cares because dallas lost just like nobody cares NE lost no matter what you say brady did he choked and NE lost.


first off..could you please form a respectable sentence. I know down south people dont speak proper english but please...for the sake of everyone.... learn your grammer. And secondly, you still are a hipocrit. What you say for one quarterback goes for all quarterbacks, be a man and accept the fact that romo is the biggest choke artist. And finally Brady choke...he wasnt even on the field when they lost...in fact he had put the pats ahead of the giants. So please get a dictionary and look up choke...you will find a picture of tony romo dropping the snap and losing the game. And as much as you want to talk about how the patriot fans always say its the defense who loses the game it is because thats the truth...our quarterback didnt bobble the snap, or throw picks in the playoffs to lose the game...our defense crumbled in the final seconds of the superbowl. Please , please, please get your facts straight you ignorant texan. And dont forget the fact that your boy T.O got shut down in two straight weeks by two old time corners, woodson and springs. As much as you want to talk crap about the pats and brady you know you fu***** fear them...they are COWBOY KILLERS. And you know what... at least we made it to the superbowl...something you team hasnt been able to accomplish in what a decade? Why dont you just stick to talking choke football in the COWBOYS forum. Cant wait to see Chad johnson celebrate all over the dallas star!!!! Hey didnt another player do that one year.....?

BostonHooligan1
10-03-2008, 01:21 AM
Do you realize that Tom Brady doesn't play defense? He led the Pats to 27 points in that game, (the other 7 came on an Asante Samuel interception return) and ONCE AGAIN put the Pats ahead late in the fourth quarter. It is NOT Tom Brady's fault that the defense allowed the Colts to score with about 1 minute to go. The team blew the lead late, Tom Brady did not single-handedly choke away either of the games that you are refering to. By your ******** logic, every time a team loses a game, the QB is the person who "chokes", and is the reason for the loss.

Bottom Line:

Tom Brady: 14-3 in postseason, 3 Super Bowls, 4 AFC Championships

Peyton Manning: 7-7 in postseason, 1 Super Bowl, 1 AFC Championship

Tony Romo: 0-2 in postseason, 0 Super Bowls, 0 NFC Championships, 1 botched snap

Choke on that.

you are the STAT KING and quite possibly my new hero! hahahaha

cowboys8
10-03-2008, 06:29 AM
Guys there is no reason for the cheap shots,all said we all bust each others chops.This is what makes the forums fun,a fan will stick up for there team no matter what.You may have some KC fan tell u how our teams don't compare to his chiefs.

The Intimidator
10-03-2008, 11:14 AM
all thats good and all seeing Romo has only played in 2 seasons which is why he doesn't have 17 playoff games under his belt i notice you back peddle on your statments alot everytime we talk about the pats loosing its always the defense but when the colts or Cowboys loose its there star QB's huh? How bout you just shutup with that now. Also seeing that you really get cowboy games in Boston you don't know how Romo performs every week as i do cuz i see every game if you did you would know last season Crayton dropped a pass which he would have scored but we had to punt and the giants last scoring drive Reeves (the worst corner to ever play football) gave up a huge pass play then followed that play up with a 15 yard face mask which is why we lost not because of Romo who threw 0 interceptions and 0 fumbles.... The seahawks game yea he fumbled the snap but was perfect every other aspect of the game and if gramitica would have blocked Romo would have scored on the snap so and he threw 0 interceptions that game also so don't make it seem like Romo sucks and makes huge plays every week..Now NE loosing the big league they had against the Colts Brady's fault there defense has nothing to do with him not scoring on offense maybe it was that interception he threw

Well, first of all, if you look at my location, which is on the top right corner of my post, it says that I live in New Jersey, not Boston. Second of all, I have seen all four Cowboys games this year because they have been on in the primetime slots. So yes, I have seen how Romo performs on a week to week basis. No one in here is denying the fact that he can put up good numbers. We are just reminding you that you cannot call Tom Brady a "choke artist" in the two specific games that you brought up when your QB:

1) hasn't won a playoff game

2) has been the main reason why the team has lost

3) well, just look at his combined playoff numbers: 35/65, 390 yards, 2 touchdowns 1 interceptions, 1 botched snap (75.8 passer rating)

From those numbers, you can determine that Romo has an inability to get his team into the endzone. In the regular season, I have seen the Cowboys routinely score in the vicinity of 35-40 points, but yet in two playoff games with Romo the Cowboys have scored a total of 37 points. In addition, I would like to point out that when Romo throws an interception, he looks really bad doing it. The pick that he threw to Horton last week against the Redskins was a poor read of the defense, as was the interception that he threw week 2 against the Eagles to Asante. The bottom line is that I see Romo more than you might think, and that he is nothing more than a gunslinger, not unlike Brett Favre. When you throw crazy and creative defenses at him, like the Giants did last postseason, he makes very stupid mistakes. Now, Tom Brady did not play particularly well against the Giants in the Super Bowl either. I am not denying that. But the bottom line there is that Romo had a chance to put his team ahead late in that playoff game last January and he was picked off my McQuarters in the endzone. (Surprise Surprise) Tom Brady, meanwhile, threw a touchdown to Moss late in the game that put his team ahead, and if not for the defense collapsing, would have won the game for his team. Tom Brady comes through in the clutch on a regular basis. Let me know when Tony Romo does that.

BostonHooligan1
10-03-2008, 04:07 PM
Guys there is no reason for the cheap shots,all said we all bust each others chops.This is what makes the forums fun,a fan will stick up for there team no matter what.You may have some KC fan tell u how our teams don't compare to his chiefs.

your right Cowboys8, but your boy Blacknells ignorance goes a little to far sometimes. U dont see us going into your forum stirring up crap because we have nothing better to do. Have a little more class....

Skins4Life
10-03-2008, 04:20 PM
revive the moss-culpepper connection... only if culpepper unretires... that would be sweet

The Intimidator
10-03-2008, 04:26 PM
revive the moss-culpepper connection... only if culpepper unretires... that would be sweet

You missed the boat on that...the Culpepper rumors were swirling in here a couple weeks ago.

bagwell368
10-03-2008, 05:00 PM
Guys there is no reason for the cheap shots,all said we all bust each others chops.This is what makes the forums fun,a fan will stick up for there team no matter what.You may have some KC fan tell u how our teams don't compare to his chiefs.

No dice. On the general boards you can mix it up all you want. On a team board when your message is "your franchise QB is a choke" "your coach is a cheat" and all sorts of other vile garbage it isn't fun - it is baiting.

Say something interesting or constructive or leave.

bagwell368
10-03-2008, 05:02 PM
revive the moss-culpepper connection... only if culpepper unretires... that would be sweet

Culpepper couldn't run the Pats offense on his best day, best month or best year of his career (which are all behind him).

O'Connell or Brady is the next QB's to take over for Cassel.

BostonHooligan1
10-03-2008, 05:09 PM
Culpepper couldn't run the Pats offense on his best day, best month or best year of his career (which are all behind him).

O'Connell or Brady is the next QB's to take over for Cassel.

i agree, plus culpepper is to into the whole "i got black listed" thing. His personality would be a big conflict of interest. To bad Bulger was named starter again for the rams....and i dont know if this is true but someone told me that the pats may be interested in Brady Quinn???? Can anyone shed a little light on that? i hope its not true.

Crickr
10-03-2008, 05:50 PM
No dice. On the general boards you can mix it up all you want. On a team board when your message is "your franchise QB is a choke" "your coach is a cheat" and all sorts of other vile garbage it isn't fun - it is baiting.

Say something interesting or constructive or leave.

Way to go. We have had nothing but hate and baiting since the Pats started winning. Let the crap stay out of here...............

Crickr
10-03-2008, 05:55 PM
i agree, plus culpepper is to into the whole "i got black listed" thing. His personality would be a big conflict of interest. To bad Bulger was named starter again for the rams....and i dont know if this is true but someone told me that the pats may be interested in Brady Quinn???? Can anyone shed a little light on that? i hope its not true.

The only QB's you will see here in New England this year are Cassel , OcOnell and Guet. ( sorry don't know his spelled name lol)

cowboys8
10-03-2008, 06:10 PM
No dice. On the general boards you can mix it up all you want. On a team board when your message is "your franchise QB is a choke" "your coach is a cheat" and all sorts of other vile garbage it isn't fun - it is baiting.

Say something interesting or constructive or leave.

Since when is the truth baiting.You talk as much garbage as anyone in any chat.Some people can't admit when they are wrong or when they hear the truth and I see now your one of them.Everyone is entitled to their own opinion,whether right or wrong but the reaction of someone lets you know whether its the truth or not.

blacknell
10-03-2008, 06:15 PM
i just wannna know if Romo sucks so bad why has he been to the pro bowl every year he has been a starter which is twice and Manning has been 8 times in his 11 year career and has 3 time 1st team all pro while brady the greatest QB to ever live has only been 4 times and 1 first team all pro? Ithink its safe to say Manning is a better football player and thats coming from people who aren't bias..

BostonHooligan1
10-03-2008, 06:24 PM
i just wannna know if Romo sucks so bad why has he been to the pro bowl every year he has been a starter which is twice and Manning has been 8 times in his 11 year career and has 3 time 1st team all pro while brady the greatest QB to ever live has only been 4 times and 1 first team all pro? Ithink its safe to say Manning is a better football player and thats coming from people who aren't bias..

well if you do the numbers blacknell... 8 times out of a 11 year career means that there was only 3 years in his career he wasnt at the pro-bowl. well lets see.... Brady who has a 7 year career has been in to the probowl 4 times....so that means there is only 3 years he didnt make it to the probowl....in a shorter career.... also brady has 3 rings compared to mannings 1...seems like he has matched and surpassed Manning in a shorter career span. And Romo has gone to the Pro-bowl since being a starter becuase there isnt a Quarterback better in the N.F.C. its easy to go to the probowl when you have no Competition. Put Romo in the same division as Brady or Manning and he wouldnt come close.

BostonHooligan1
10-03-2008, 06:28 PM
Since when is the truth baiting.You talk as much garbage as anyone in any chat.Some people can't admit when they are wrong or when they hear the truth and I see now your one of them.Everyone is entitled to their own opinion,whether right or wrong but the reaction of someone lets you know whether its the truth or not.

and again here we go...dont you guys have anything better to do than go into other people's forums and talk crap... i mean is the conversations so bad in the Cowboys forum that you have to come to the pats forum to hear intelligent people talk? We love being the center of your attention guys but seriously.... im sure y'alls forum shure dus mis y'all

The Intimidator
10-03-2008, 06:58 PM
i just wannna know if Romo sucks so bad why has he been to the pro bowl every year he has been a starter which is twice and Manning has been 8 times in his 11 year career and has 3 time 1st team all pro while brady the greatest QB to ever live has only been 4 times and 1 first team all pro? Ithink its safe to say Manning is a better football player and thats coming from people who aren't bias..

The pro bowl is fan voting, just a popularity contest. You continue to duck the real issue here, you coward. Respond to my last post, it was at 11:14 am.

The Intimidator
10-03-2008, 07:05 PM
Since when is the truth baiting.You talk as much garbage as anyone in any chat.Some people can't admit when they are wrong or when they hear the truth and I see now your one of them.Everyone is entitled to their own opinion,whether right or wrong but the reaction of someone lets you know whether its the truth or not.

Okay, you got us. The fact that the Patriots were caught taping signals is the truth. But the fact that you continue to bring it up a year later is the baiting that you're guilty of. The fact that Tony Romo collapses under the pressure of the playoffs is also the truth, as shown by his 0-2 record and terrible QB rating. However, you don't see any of us going into the Cowboys' forum and reminding you about it all the time. So, let me tell you one more time: no one in here gives a **** about your opinion of the New England Patriots, because your opinions are completely biased and stubborn. Oh, and one more thing: it's also the truth that the Pats weren't taping anything when they destroyed the Cowboys by 21 points last season. Get over yourself and enjoy watching Chad Ocho Cinco kiss the star on Sunday.

blacknell
10-03-2008, 07:40 PM
well if you do the numbers blacknell... 8 times out of a 11 year career means that there was only 3 years in his career he wasnt at the pro-bowl. well lets see.... Brady who has a 7 year career has been in to the probowl 4 times....so that means there is only 3 years he didnt make it to the probowl....in a shorter career.... also brady has 3 rings compared to mannings 1...seems like he has matched and surpassed Manning in a shorter career span. And Romo has gone to the Pro-bowl since being a starter becuase there isnt a Quarterback better in the N.F.C. its easy to go to the probowl when you have no Competition. Put Romo in the same division as Brady or Manning and he wouldnt come close.

he missed the probowl twice this is his 11th season.. I think NE won the SB twice and Brady didn't make the pro bowl those years either??? and if the fans do the voting guess what....... THEY DON'T THINK HE IS THE GREATEST manning goes every year so guess what PEOPLE THINK IS HE BETTER.. and i couldn't find a post at 11:14

The Intimidator
10-03-2008, 07:53 PM
Well, first of all, if you look at my location, which is on the top right corner of my post, it says that I live in New Jersey, not Boston. Second of all, I have seen all four Cowboys games this year because they have been on in the primetime slots. So yes, I have seen how Romo performs on a week to week basis. No one in here is denying the fact that he can put up good numbers. We are just reminding you that you cannot call Tom Brady a "choke artist" in the two specific games that you brought up when your QB:

1) hasn't won a playoff game

2) has been the main reason why the team has lost

3) well, just look at his combined playoff numbers: 35/65, 390 yards, 2 touchdowns 1 interceptions, 1 botched snap (75.8 passer rating)

From those numbers, you can determine that Romo has an inability to get his team into the endzone. In the regular season, I have seen the Cowboys routinely score in the vicinity of 35-40 points, but yet in two playoff games with Romo the Cowboys have scored a total of 37 points. In addition, I would like to point out that when Romo throws an interception, he looks really bad doing it. The pick that he threw to Horton last week against the Redskins was a poor read of the defense, as was the interception that he threw week 2 against the Eagles to Asante. The bottom line is that I see Romo more than you might think, and that he is nothing more than a gunslinger, not unlike Brett Favre. When you throw crazy and creative defenses at him, like the Giants did last postseason, he makes very stupid mistakes. Now, Tom Brady did not play particularly well against the Giants in the Super Bowl either. I am not denying that. But the bottom line there is that Romo had a chance to put his team ahead late in that playoff game last January and he was picked off my McQuarters in the endzone. (Surprise Surprise) Tom Brady, meanwhile, threw a touchdown to Moss late in the game that put his team ahead, and if not for the defense collapsing, would have won the game for his team. Tom Brady comes through in the clutch on a regular basis. Let me know when Tony Romo does that.

How could you possibly have missed this?

bagwell368
10-03-2008, 08:37 PM
Since when is the truth baiting.You talk as much garbage as anyone in any chat.Some people can't admit when they are wrong or when they hear the truth and I see now your one of them.Everyone is entitled to their own opinion,whether right or wrong but the reaction of someone lets you know whether its the truth or not.

But sir, its my teams chat, and I have presented deep statistical analysis on the 3 sports I post on in PSD: baskebatall, football, and baseball (esp baseball) - go look. All you do is come in here, try and find a sore spot and say something snarky. In the past 48 hours I have posted more statistical information then your entire history on PSD.

Sir, I have been wrong about a great many things in my almost 52 years on the planet. But when it comes to something like Brady v. Manning or Brady v Romo I am adament because the facts and my own eyes agree. Or that I can faithfully compare Craig Morton with Tony Romo based on longevity with the Cowboys, career stats, and career results. If Romo wins two SB's I'll move him up. Hint: being compared to Craig Morton isn't really so good.

I do not believe you are entitled to come here - stage a hit and run attack under the banner of opinion or free speech - you are just inciting ill will, and I am sick of it. I do not believe you can change your spots , and I doubt that you are interested in taking that step. Therefore I am taking the step of adding you to my ignore list.

Have a pleasant life.

The Intimidator
10-03-2008, 08:40 PM
^^^Whipped!

cowboys8
10-03-2008, 09:27 PM
But sir, its my teams chat, and I have presented deep statistical analysis on the 3 sports I post on in PSD: baskebatall, football, and baseball (esp baseball) - go look. All you do is come in here, try and find a sore spot and say something snarky. In the past 48 hours I have posted more statistical information then your entire history on PSD.

Sir, I have been wrong about a great many things in my almost 52 years on the planet. But when it comes to something like Brady v. Manning or Brady v Romo I am adament because the facts and my own eyes agree. Or that I can faithfully compare Craig Morton with Tony Romo based on longevity with the Cowboys, career stats, and career results. If Romo wins two SB's I'll move him up. Hint: being compared to Craig Morton isn't really so good.

I do not believe you are entitled to come here - stage a hit and run attack under the banner of opinion or free speech - you are just inciting ill will, and I am sick of it. I do not believe you can change your spots , and I doubt that you are interested in taking that step. Therefore I am taking the step of adding you to my ignore list.

Have a pleasant life.

All you have proved is that you look through a magazine and copy someone elses work.You have also proved me on every topic of the Pats choked.A team that goes undefeated and loses the SB qualifies as the Biggest choke in Nfl history.So you know this is the USA and everyone that includes you are entitled to free speech.Its not my problem that you have not gotten over the loss.It would be great to go aroud and say my team went undefeated and won the SB,but reality you can't,you have to add my team choked,lost or how you may want to say it but a fact is a fact.Something you may want to look up in your book is Dallas is and always will be a more successful team,not an argueable stat.:D

The Intimidator
10-03-2008, 09:49 PM
All you have proved is that you look through a magazine and copy someone elses work.You have also proved me on every topic of the Pats choked.A team that goes undefeated and loses the SB qualifies as the Biggest choke in Nfl history.So you know this is the USA and everyone that includes you are entitled to free speech.Its not my problem that you have not gotten over the loss.It would be great to go aroud and say my team went undefeated and won the SB,but reality you can't,you have to add my team choked,lost or how you may want to say it but a fact is a fact.Something you may want to look up in your book is Dallas is and always will be a more successful team,not an argueable stat.:D

Who's being biased now? Your amazing Dallas Cowboys haven't won a playoff game since 1996. You shouldn't even be allowed to comment on this issue. And stop throwing around the word choke. A loss isn't a choke, and losing that Super Bowl is not the biggest choke in NFL history. You are getting on my nerves now. Nothing you say has any ****ing merit to it. Losing a game 17-14 isn't a ****ing choke. Get the **** out of our forum right now. Have I gotten over the loss? No, I haven't. But you characterizing a 3 point loss as a choke pisses me off. No, a choke is what your "amazing" team has done in back-to-back seasons. Your QB "choked" when he couldn't hang on to a football against Seattle, and then "choked" again when he was picked off by McQuarters when there were no receivers near where he threw the ball. So go back to Texas where you belong, because around here, not only are people not as mentally incapacitated as you are, but they also know how to put spaces in between their sentences you ****ing idiot.

BostonHooligan1
10-03-2008, 10:18 PM
he missed the probowl twice this is his 11th season.. I think NE won the SB twice and Brady didn't make the pro bowl those years either??? and if the fans do the voting guess what....... THEY DON'T THINK HE IS THE GREATEST manning goes every year so guess what PEOPLE THINK IS HE BETTER.. and i couldn't find a post at 11:14

once again you do nothing but contradict yourself...

The Intimidator
10-03-2008, 10:21 PM
once again you do nothing but contradict yourself...

Well what do you expect...he hasn't graduated from Kindergarten yet.

BostonHooligan1
10-03-2008, 10:27 PM
blacknell and cowboy i think your best bet would be to tuck your tail in between your legs and just go back to the dallas forum where you belong. You obviously cannot keep up with Intimidator,bagwell, myself and all the others that have day after day proved you wrong. I dont know how many more times Intimidator is going to have to post facts for you to understand your fighting a losing battle....i now suggest for every pats fan in this forum to ignore Cowboys8 and Blacknell no matter what they say in hopes that their lives arent that pitiful and they hopefully will stop ruining this forum with their ignorance and uneducated speaches. Cowboys8 and blacknell you are pathetic.

THE_FLASH_21
10-03-2008, 11:05 PM
It's not just Cassel... Your running game was great last season... but Maroney is hurt.. Let him get healthy and u guys will be fine!!

blacknell
10-03-2008, 11:24 PM
blacknell and cowboy i think your best bet would be to tuck your tail in between your legs and just go back to the dallas forum where you belong. You obviously cannot keep up with Intimidator,bagwell, myself and all the others that have day after day proved you wrong. I dont know how many more times Intimidator is going to have to post facts for you to understand your fighting a losing battle....i now suggest for every pats fan in this forum to ignore Cowboys8 and Blacknell no matter what they say in hopes that their lives arent that pitiful and they hopefully will stop ruining this forum with their ignorance and uneducated speaches. Cowboys8 and blacknell you are pathetic.


its funny because not one thing i have said can be proven to be wrong. Everything i put up is a proven stat wow after every post i put up you say well tom brady won 3 super bowls lol i'm afraid that doesn't make him the best end of the story on that.. So please put up a stat or statement i wrote that was incorrect.. all 3 of yall still posting have repeated the same crap over and over " brady has 3 superbowls" other than that he has nuttin on Manning no where close. And last time i checked the Giants used the same blitz the 2 times they lost to dallas last season as they did in the playoffs. I have already stated why that game was lost and it was not because of Romo go youtube the game and watch it then come talk to me. And the interception he threw was it was 4th down with 8 seconds left and noone was open....Also i know when the cowboys play at 3:15 pm your not getting those games up there so shutup especially if the pats are playing at the same time.... Last year is in the past who cares about it the cowboys will win the superbowl and not the pats they won't even make it if they even make the playoffs and i don't want top hear because Brady isn't there. The cowboys made the playoffs when a undrafted player who had been riding the pine for 3 years and never took an NFL snap took over and i'm talking about Tony Romo

The Intimidator
10-03-2008, 11:44 PM
its funny because not one thing i have said can be proven to be wrong. Everything i put up is a proven stat wow after every post i put up you say well tom brady won 3 super bowls lol i'm afraid that doesn't make him the best end of the story on that.. So please put up a stat or statement i wrote that was incorrect.. all 3 of yall still posting have repeated the same crap over and over " brady has 3 superbowls" other than that he has nuttin on Manning no where close. And last time i checked the Giants used the same blitz the 2 times they lost to dallas last season as they did in the playoffs. I have already stated why that game was lost and it was not because of Romo go youtube the game and watch it then come talk to me. And the interception he threw was it was 4th down with 8 seconds left and noone was open....Also i know when the cowboys play at 3:15 pm your not getting those games up there so shutup especially if the pats are playing at the same time.... Last year is in the past who cares about it the cowboys will win the superbowl and not the pats they won't even make it if they even make the playoffs and i don't want top hear because Brady isn't there. The cowboys made the playoffs when a undrafted player who had been riding the pine for 3 years and never took an NFL snap took over and i'm talking about Tony Romo

Hey ******, as I have said before, I live in NEW JERSEY!!!!!!!!!! I don't get Pats games up here. Let me list off the Cowboy games from this season:

Game 1: Dallas @ Cleveland 4:15 p.m. on FOX. I watched it.
Game 2: Dallas vs. Philadelphia 8:30 p.m. on ESPN Monday Night Football. I watched it.
Game 3: Dallas @ Green Bay 8:15 p.m. on NBC Sunday Night Football. I watched it.
Game 4: Dallas vs. Washington 4:15 p.m. on FOX. I watched it.

Don't speak out of your ***, and maybe get your facts straight.

blacknell
10-04-2008, 12:00 AM
Hey ******, as I have said before, I live in NEW JERSEY!!!!!!!!!! I don't get Pats games up here. Let me list off the Cowboy games from this season:

Game 1: Dallas @ Cleveland 4:15 p.m. on FOX. I watched it.
Game 2: Dallas vs. Philadelphia 8:30 p.m. on ESPN Monday Night Football. I watched it.
Game 3: Dallas @ Green Bay 8:15 p.m. on NBC Sunday Night Football. I watched it.
Game 4: Dallas vs. Washington 4:15 p.m. on FOX. I watched it.

Don't speak out of your ***, and maybe get your facts straight.

no you didn't come on now i went to school out in houston and couldn't get every cowboy game even though they came on fox but you telling me in New Jersey you get em all huh? I"ma stick with your lying and shutup

The Intimidator
10-04-2008, 12:11 AM
no you didn't come on now i went to school out in houston and couldn't get every cowboy game even though they came on fox but you telling me in New Jersey you get em all huh? I"ma stick with your lying and shutup

You can never admit when you're wrong, can you? Let me go deeper into this then.

Week 1: The Giants played the Thursday before, and the Jets played at 1. The next game on Fox was the Cowboys game, which I watched.

Week 2: National Television. You have nothing on me there.

Week 3: National Television. Again, you have nothing on me there.

Week 4: The Giants had a BYE week and the Jets played at 1. From there, the Washington game becomes a priority. They were playing the Cowboys, so yeah, I watched that one too.

As you can clearly see, I'm not lieing, you're just stubborn. And how dare you come into our forum and tell me to shut up. No, you shut the **** up and get the **** out of the Patriots forum you **** sucking mother ****er. Get a ****ing life besides baiting you ****ing piece of **** loser.

blacknell
10-04-2008, 12:31 AM
lol your a moron why would you even argue with me about that? you know what i was looking on nfl.com and checking out tom brady and before last season he just put up average numbers i see why he hasn't made the probowl that much i think its the defense winning and not him

The Intimidator
10-04-2008, 12:40 AM
lol your a moron why would you even argue with me about that? you know what i was looking on nfl.com and checking out tom brady and before last season he just put up average numbers i see why he hasn't made the probowl that much i think its the defense winning and not him

Oh yeah, it was your master plan to try and suck me into an argument. Yeah, you really fooled me. :rolleyes:

bagwell368
10-04-2008, 12:55 AM
lol your a moron why would you even argue with me about that? you know what i was looking on nfl.com and checking out tom brady and before last season he just put up average numbers i see why he hasn't made the probowl that much i think its the defense winning and not him

Hmmm.. what is Brady's all time QB rating? 5th all time, and with a very limited cast of skill position players until last year. Even if you toss out last year he's in the 10-15 all time slot for QB rating.

The Intimidator
10-04-2008, 01:05 AM
Hmmm.. what is Brady's all time QB rating? 5th all time, and with a very limited cast of skill position players until last year. Even if you toss out last year he's in the 10-15 all time slot for QB rating.

Don't bother trying to give him actual evidence, he enjoys forming opinions out of his ***.

BostonHooligan1
10-04-2008, 01:45 AM
its funny because not one thing i have said can be proven to be wrong. Everything i put up is a proven stat wow after every post i put up you say well tom brady won 3 super bowls lol i'm afraid that doesn't make him the best end of the story on that.. So please put up a stat or statement i wrote that was incorrect.. all 3 of yall still posting have repeated the same crap over and over " brady has 3 superbowls" other than that he has nuttin on Manning no where close. And last time i checked the Giants used the same blitz the 2 times they lost to dallas last season as they did in the playoffs. I have already stated why that game was lost and it was not because of Romo go youtube the game and watch it then come talk to me. And the interception he threw was it was 4th down with 8 seconds left and noone was open....Also i know when the cowboys play at 3:15 pm your not getting those games up there so shutup especially if the pats are playing at the same time.... Last year is in the past who cares about it the cowboys will win the superbowl and not the pats they won't even make it if they even make the playoffs and i don't want top hear because Brady isn't there. The cowboys made the playoffs when a undrafted player who had been riding the pine for 3 years and never took an NFL snap took over and i'm talking about Tony Romo

hey moron.... i got this thing called the NFL package...you should check it out... its amazing...you can watch any team ... maybe you can start seeing other games and have a valid opinion instead of being sheltered in your trailer watching fox on your rabbit ear antenna. and i dont know if your just ******** or ignorant but i believe intimidator has put up many stats to disprove about...everything you said. if you dont believe me scroll back and read wherever it says INTIMIDATOR or Bagwell.... maybe you will learn something.

BostonHooligan1
10-04-2008, 01:50 AM
its funny because not one thing i have said can be proven to be wrong. Everything i put up is a proven stat wow after every post i put up you say well tom brady won 3 super bowls lol i'm afraid that doesn't make him the best end of the story on that.. So please put up a stat or statement i wrote that was incorrect.. all 3 of yall still posting have repeated the same crap over and over " brady has 3 superbowls" other than that he has nuttin on Manning no where close. And last time i checked the Giants used the same blitz the 2 times they lost to dallas last season as they did in the playoffs. I have already stated why that game was lost and it was not because of Romo go youtube the game and watch it then come talk to me. And the interception he threw was it was 4th down with 8 seconds left and noone was open....Also i know when the cowboys play at 3:15 pm your not getting those games up there so shutup especially if the pats are playing at the same time.... Last year is in the past who cares about it the cowboys will win the superbowl and not the pats they won't even make it if they even make the playoffs and i don't want top hear because Brady isn't there. The cowboys made the playoffs when a undrafted player who had been riding the pine for 3 years and never took an NFL snap took over and i'm talking about Tony Romo


yeah the pats had the same scenario...except that rookie Q.B took us to the superbowl, won the superbowl and also won the MVP of the superbowl...he didnt choke everytime he got into the playoffs like romo. I believe that unbelievable Q.B's name is TOM BRADY. God you make this too easy.

The Intimidator
10-04-2008, 01:55 AM
yeah the pats had the same scenario...except that rookie Q.B took us to the superbowl, won the superbowl and also won the MVP of the superbowl...he didnt choke everytime he got into the playoffs like romo. I believe that unbelievable Q.B's name is TOM BRADY. God you make this too easy.

I'm going to predict exactly what Blacknell will say in response to this: Brady didn't deserve MVP y'all!!!! He sucks more than Peyton Manning because he doesn't go to the Pro Bowl y'all!!! Romo was undrafted and Brady was drafted so that means whatever Romo does is better y'all!!! I want Romo's **** y'all!!! Pats choked y'all!!!

BostonHooligan1
10-04-2008, 02:05 AM
I'm going to predict exactly what Blacknell will say in response to this: Brady didn't deserve MVP y'all!!!! He sucks more than Peyton Manning because he doesn't go to the Pro Bowl y'all!!! Romo was undrafted and Brady was drafted so that means whatever Romo does is better y'all!!! I want Romo's **** y'all!!! Pats choked y'all!!!


HAHAHAHA... you hit the nail on the head.

cowboys8
10-04-2008, 06:20 AM
Who's being biased now? Your amazing Dallas Cowboys haven't won a playoff game since 1996. You shouldn't even be allowed to comment on this issue. And stop throwing around the word choke. A loss isn't a choke, and losing that Super Bowl is not the biggest choke in NFL history. You are getting on my nerves now. Nothing you say has any ****ing merit to it. Losing a game 17-14 isn't a ****ing choke. Get the **** out of our forum right now. Have I gotten over the loss? No, I haven't. But you characterizing a 3 point loss as a choke pisses me off. No, a choke is what your "amazing" team has done in back-to-back seasons. Your QB "choked" when he couldn't hang on to a football against Seattle, and then "choked" again when he was picked off by McQuarters when there were no receivers near where he threw the ball. So go back to Texas where you belong, because around here, not only are people not as mentally incapacitated as you are, but they also know how to put spaces in between their sentences you ****ing idiot.
Could care less if choke pisses you off,get over it the word choke and cheat will always be the words used when describing your PATS.It doen't matter when the last time Dallas won.You want history,5SB to your 3SB,point is doesn't matter.Fact is Pats will go down as the most remembered team.1,undefeated and choked in big game,2 cheated and still choked and didn't win big game.One word that will never be used when talking about the Cowboys championships are the words choke and cheat unlike your team.:p

cowboys8
10-04-2008, 06:30 AM
blacknell and cowboy i think your best bet would be to tuck your tail in between your legs and just go back to the dallas forum where you belong. You obviously cannot keep up with Intimidator,bagwell, myself and all the others that have day after day proved you wrong. I dont know how many more times Intimidator is going to have to post facts for you to understand your fighting a losing battle....i now suggest for every pats fan in this forum to ignore Cowboys8 and Blacknell no matter what they say in hopes that their lives arent that pitiful and they hopefully will stop ruining this forum with their ignorance and uneducated speaches. Cowboys8 and blacknell you are pathetic.
What I miss.Keep up w/your ignorance.You guys are still in denile.The game is over and yes you lost(choked).Neither of you can honestly say you thought the giants would of made a game out of it.If you do your more pathetic than I thought.You didn't win last year,won't win this year and won't win next year.You guys need to seriously put your SI mags away because your not reading correctly.Check the stats your team choked.You can't use the word lost.The only person who gave the giants a chance was the G-men themselves.Should of video taped the walk through:laugh:

bagwell368
10-04-2008, 09:29 AM
One word that will never be used when talking about the Cowboys championships are the words choke and cheat unlike your team.:p

I got into the site w/o logging in, so regrettably I read your post.

Never is a long time young man, let's check the facts.

Dallas record in playoffs by year (including many chokes (gag), beatdowns (:smoking:), and a few rays of sun ((:).

1966: Dallas vs. Green Bay NFC Championship - Dallas loses 34 - 27 after being tied 14 - 14 - not a major choke.

1967: Dallas vs Green Bay NFC Championship - Dallas loses 21 - 17 on final GC drive after being up 17 - 14 - very major and famous up chuck. gag

1968: after going 12-2 lose first round playoffs to Browns (10-4) 31-20 - after being up 10-3 - another major choke job. gag

1969: after going 11-2-1 'Boys again bow out in the 1st round against the Browns 38-14 after being behind 24-0 and 38-7 - not a choke just a beat down. :smoking:

1970: 'Boys win two playoff games (finally) but lose to Colts in the SB 16-13 after being up 6-0 and 13-6 - gag

1971: win SB - nice job :)

1972: 10-4 record but get axed by Redskins 26-3 in NFC Championship game after beating 49'ers 30-28 in close game in round 1. :smoking:

1973: Beat Rams 27-16 in round 1, but go down to Vikings 27-10 in round 2. :smoking:

1975: Lose in SB to Steelers 21-17 after being up 7-0 and 10-9. gag

1976: Lose round 1 game to Rams 14-12 after being up 10-7. gag

1977: Win SB number two :)

1978: Get ahead of Steelers 14-7, then get outscored 28-3 at one point en route to 35-31 loss - a few late TD's make score look respectable while Steelers were in prevent. gag

1979: After being ahead 19-14 late, 'Boys lose first round game to Rams 21-19. gag

1980: after being tied 7-7, Eagles do a tap dance on 'Boys and win 20-7 in NFC Championship Game. :smoking:

1981: The 12-2 'Boys can't hold on to leads of 17-14 and 27-21 and lose to 49'ers 28-27. gag

1982: After getting to within 24-21 'Boys again run out of gas and lose to Redskins 31-17 in NFC Championship game. gag

1983: Again the 'Boys drop first round game 24-17 after having a lead (10-7) this time to the Rams. gag

1984: This time its not a choke, just an old fashioned beating as they get whacked by the Rams in Round 1 20-0. :smoking:

1991: 'Boys get destroyed in Round 2 38-6 by one of the weakest franchises ever - Detroit Lions. :smoking:

1992: Win SB number three :) *

1993: Win SB number four :) *

1994: 49'ers jump all over 'Boys in first half 31-14 en route to 38-28 elimination in Round 2. :smoking:

1995: Win SB number five :) *

1996: 'Boys lose in Round 2 to recently created Panthers 26-17 (after a 3-0 lead and closing to 17-14). gag

1998: Boys lose in Round 1 to that other mighty franchise - Cardinals 20-7. :smoking:

1999: After taking 10-3 lead in Round 1 Game to Vikings get outscored 24-0. gag

2003: Yawn... Panthers beat down 'Boys 29-10 in 1st Round game. :smoking:

2006: After taking leads of 17-13 and 20-13, Dallas can't hold off Seahawks and lose 21-20 in Round 1 Game. gag

2007: After taking a 14-7 lead 'Boys (13-3) lose 21-17 to the 10-6 Giants. gag

Now for the cheating:

The 3 SB wins marked w/ an asterix:


1. Illegal drug use by many members of team - some illegal in society and others illegal in the NFL

2. Many criminal acts and violent criminal acts commited by members of team - both #1 and #2 well documented elsewhere.

3. Jimmy Johnson has said that he had a taping operation going similar to BB's. He does not see what the big complaint against BB is. Hmm, so if the Pats are cheaters - I guess the self admission of the Head Coach of your team (2 of the last 3 SB winners) must then mean the Boys cheat as well. http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/patriots/index.php/2008/02/23/jimmy-johnson-thinks-spygate-is-overblown/


Summary: The Cowboys are well ahead of franchises like Buffalo and Minnesota that cannot seem to win the big one, and fit in well with other franchises that have between 3 and 5 titles:

49'ers, Steelers

Pats, Packers, Redskins, Giants, Raiders.

The fact that they have been in the playoffs more often then those teams over the past 45 years, but haven't gotten to six or seven titles means that they have more losses of both types - chokes and beatdowns then anyone else. The Pats therefore have a much higher percentage 21-13 in the playoffs then the Cowboys 32-24 - although less appearances over all.

But to claim Dallas never choked or cheated is I am afraid - false.

ZHawk1123
10-04-2008, 10:04 AM
Could care less if choke pisses you off,get over it the word choke and cheat will always be the words used when describing your PATS.It doen't matter when the last time Dallas won.You want history,5SB to your 3SB,point is doesn't matter.Fact is Pats will go down as the most remembered team.1,undefeated and choked in big game,2 cheated and still choked and didn't win big game.One word that will never be used when talking about the Cowboys championships are the words choke and cheat unlike your team.:p


What I miss.Keep up w/your ignorance.You guys are still in denile.The game is over and yes you lost(choked).Neither of you can honestly say you thought the giants would of made a game out of it.If you do your more pathetic than I thought.You didn't win last year,won't win this year and won't win next year.You guys need to seriously put your SI mags away because your not reading correctly.Check the stats your team choked.You can't use the word lost.The only person who gave the giants a chance was the G-men themselves.Should of video taped the walk through:laugh:


I got into the site w/o logging in, so regrettably I read your post.

Never is a long time young man, let's check the facts.

Dallas record in playoffs by year (including many chokes (gag), beatdowns (:smoking:), and a few rays of sun ((:).

1966: Dallas vs. Green Bay NFC Championship - Dallas loses 34 - 27 after being tied 14 - 14 - not a major choke.

1967: Dallas vs Green Bay NFC Championship - Dallas loses 21 - 17 on final GC drive after being up 17 - 14 - very major and famous up chuck. gag

1968: after going 12-2 lose first round playoffs to Browns (10-4) 31-20 - after being up 10-3 - another major choke job. gag

1969: after going 11-2-1 'Boys again bow out in the 1st round against the Browns 38-14 after being behind 24-0 and 38-7 - not a choke just a beat down. :smoking:

1970: 'Boys win two playoff games (finally) but lose to Colts in the SB 16-13 after being up 6-0 and 13-6 - gag

1971: win SB - nice job :)

1972: 10-4 record but get axed by Redskins 26-3 in NFC Championship game after beating 49'ers 30-28 in close game in round 1. :smoking:

1973: Beat Rams 27-16 in round 1, but go down to Vikings 27-10 in round 2. :smoking:

1975: Lose in SB to Steelers 21-17 after being up 7-0 and 10-9. gag

1976: Lose round 1 game to Rams 14-12 after being up 10-7. gag

1977: Win SB number two :)

1978: Get ahead of Steelers 14-7, then get outscored 28-3 at one point en route to 35-31 loss - a few late TD's make score look respectable while Steelers were in prevent. gag

1979: After being ahead 19-14 late, 'Boys lose first round game to Rams 21-19. gag

1980: after being tied 7-7, Eagles do a tap dance on 'Boys and win 20-7 in NFC Championship Game. :smoking:

1981: The 12-2 'Boys can't hold on to leads of 17-14 and 27-21 and lose to 49'ers 28-27. gag

1982: After getting to within 24-21 'Boys again run out of gas and lose to Redskins 31-17 in NFC Championship game. gag

1983: Again the 'Boys drop first round game 24-17 after having a lead (10-7) this time to the Rams. gag

1984: This time its not a choke, just an old fashioned beating as they get whacked by the Rams in Round 1 20-0. :smoking:

1991: 'Boys get destroyed in Round 2 38-6 by one of the weakest franchises ever - Detroit Lions. :smoking:

1992: Win SB number three :) *

1993: Win SB number four :) *

1994: 49'ers jump all over 'Boys in first half 31-14 en route to 38-28 elimination in Round 2. :smoking:

1995: Win SB number five :) *

1996: 'Boys lose in Round 2 to recently created Panthers 26-17 (after a 3-0 lead and closing to 17-14). gag

1998: Boys lose in Round 1 to that other mighty franchise - Cardinals 20-7. :smoking:

1999: After taking 10-3 lead in Round 1 Game to Vikings get outscored 24-0. gag

2003: Yawn... Panthers beat down 'Boys 29-10 in 1st Round game. :smoking:

2006: After taking leads of 17-13 and 20-13, Dallas can't hold off Seahawks and lose 21-20 in Round 1 Game. gag

2007: After taking a 14-7 lead 'Boys (13-3) lose 21-17 to the 10-6 Giants. gag

Now for the cheating:

The 3 SB wins marked w/ an asterix:


1. Illegal drug use by many members of team - some illegal in society and others illegal in the NFL

2. Many criminal acts and violent criminal acts commited by members of team - both #1 and #2 well documented elsewhere.

3. Jimmy Johnson has said that he had a taping operation going similar to BB's. He does not see what the big complaint against BB is. Hmm, so if the Pats are cheaters - I guess the self admission of the Head Coach of your team (2 of the last 3 SB winners) must then mean the Boys cheat as well. http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/patriots/index.php/2008/02/23/jimmy-johnson-thinks-spygate-is-overblown/


Summary: The Cowboys are well ahead of franchises like Buffalo and Minnesota that cannot seem to win the big one, and fit in well with other franchises that have between 3 and 5 titles:

49'ers, Steelers

Pats, Packers, Redskins, Giants, Raiders.

The fact that they have been in the playoffs more often then those teams over the past 45 years, but haven't gotten to six or seven titles means that they have more losses of both types - chokes and beatdowns then anyone else. The Pats therefore have a much higher percentage 21-13 in the playoffs then the Cowboys 32-24 - although less appearances over all.

But to claim Dallas never choked or cheated is I am afraid - false.


Owned.

bagwell368
10-04-2008, 01:00 PM
oops, let me rewrite the final bit:

The fact that the Cowboys have been in the playoffs more often then any other NFL team in the past 45 years is a credit to the franchise. The fact that they are tied for all time titles with two other teams at 5, and closely trailed by several other teams at 3 with less (and in some cases quite a few less) playoff appearances means that the Cowboys have taken more beatings (chokes (terrible reputation - much like Denver back in the 60's and 70's until they finally got one)) and beat downs) then any other "winning" franchise in the playoffs. For instance:

they have more appearances then the Pats (56 to 34) but the Pats have a better winning percentage (21-13 62%) to the 'Boys (32-24 57%). The Pats have also won its three SB titles while the Boys have been stuck on 5 for 13 years.

Pittsburgh has 5 titles with a 28-19 record.

49'ers has 5 titles with a 26-18 record.

Green Bay has 3 (9 pre SB) with a 25-15 record

Raiders has 3 with a 25-18 record

Redskins has 3 (2 pre SB) with a 23-17 record

Giants has 3 (4 won pre SB) won with a 20-23 records. I am sure they have happy to have 2 more titles then the Boys in 13 games less played despite the winning percentage.

But to claim Dallas never choked or cheated is I am afraid - false. To pretend that there post season record is somehow better then some other teams is also false. Just another team, much like ours. Your root for yours and we'll root for ours.

BostonHooligan1
10-04-2008, 04:42 PM
oops, let me rewrite the final bit:

The fact that the Cowboys have been in the playoffs more often then any other NFL team in the past 45 years is a credit to the franchise. The fact that they are tied for all time titles with two other teams at 5, and closely trailed by several other teams at 3 with less (and in some cases quite a few less) playoff appearances means that the Cowboys have taken more beatings (chokes (terrible reputation - much like Denver back in the 60's and 70's until they finally got one)) and beat downs) then any other "winning" franchise in the playoffs. For instance:

they have more appearances then the Pats (56 to 34) but the Pats have a better winning percentage (21-13 62%) to the 'Boys (32-24 57%). The Pats have also won its three SB titles while the Boys have been stuck on 5 for 13 years.

Pittsburgh has 5 titles with a 28-19 record.

49'ers has 5 titles with a 26-18 record.

Green Bay has 3 (9 pre SB) with a 25-15 record

Raiders has 3 with a 25-18 record

Redskins has 3 (2 pre SB) with a 23-17 record

Giants has 3 (4 won pre SB) won with a 20-23 records. I am sure they have happy to have 2 more titles then the Boys in 13 games less played despite the winning percentage.

But to claim Dallas never choked or cheated is I am afraid - false. To pretend that there post season record is somehow better then some other teams is also false. Just another team, much like ours. Your root for yours and we'll root for ours.


someone get Bagwell and Intimidator some baby powder cause they are just B**** slapping cowboy8 and blacknell....hahahaha

blacknell
10-04-2008, 05:23 PM
yeah the pats had the same scenario...except that rookie Q.B took us to the superbowl, won the superbowl and also won the MVP of the superbowl...he didnt choke everytime he got into the playoffs like romo. I believe that unbelievable Q.B's name is TOM BRADY. God you make this too easy.

hey moron Brady wasn't a rookie then it was his 2nd year in the league and this is a proven fact which can't be argued

ERLynx
10-04-2008, 05:33 PM
can we get a moderator to close this thread? It should be called "people arguing over past events in speculation regarding their personal favorite teams".

Hey are there any Texas teams in the MLB playoffs? Hmm.

blacknell
10-04-2008, 05:51 PM
Hmmm.. what is Brady's all time QB rating? 5th all time, and with a very limited cast of skill position players until last year. Even if you toss out last year he's in the 10-15 all time slot for QB rating.

o bagwell my good man Tony Romo QB rating is higher than Brady's so i guess your saying Romo is better huh? ROMO 96.8 and brady 92.9 manning 94.2 so if he's 3rd now i doubt he's 5th all time also let me throw this in i dont remember who it was who said it i recall seeing romo is nothing more than a gunslinger huh 64.8 completion % thats one good gunslinger might i add thats higher than brady.... I also noticed that when i bring up stats you say there not important but when yall throw some out there they are.. well let me throw some numbers out there and you tell me which one is better QB A or B
QB A- 26,446 passing yards 197 td 86 int 63.0 completion% 65 fumbles
QB B- 42,410 passing yards 309 td 157 int 64.1 % and 51 fumbles

i'll throw in this fun fact also QB A has 15,964 more passing yards 112 more touchdowns 71 more interceptions 1.1 better completion percentage and 14 less fumbles which QB would you rather have? also these stats are accurate these can not be argued look it up they are proven stats....Granted QB B has played 2 more seasons

LOL now i know what the comeback will be Brady has 3 superbowls are somebody will show me a postseason record lol so i'm telling you in advance bring something new

blacknell
10-04-2008, 05:53 PM
can we get a moderator to close this thread? It should be called "people arguing over past events in speculation regarding their personal favorite teams".

Hey are there any Texas teams in the MLB playoffs? Hmm.

hmmm don't know and who cares i dont watch baseball and i don't think to many texans care for it either

ERLynx
10-04-2008, 06:14 PM
way to prove the point that you're a homer. if the astros or rangers were in the playoffs you would be polluting those threads as well. thanks for nothing, as usual.

blacknell
10-04-2008, 06:20 PM
Look what i found Buff Bagwell.. also never compare NE to Dal ever again there is a reason we are Americas team..i mean come on 21 playoff wins in 45 years and only making the playoffs 15 times in 45 years

2008.....LOSE TO THE GIANTS WHICH IS THE LATEST CHOKE
Jan. 21, 2007 AFC Championship Indianapolis 38, New England 34 BIG TIME CHOKE
Jan. 14, 2006 AFC Divisional Denver 27, New England 13 CHOKE
Feb. 6, 2005 Super Bowl XXXIX New England 24, Philadelphia 21
Feb. 1, 2004 Super Bowl XXXVIII New England 32, Carolina 29 great game
Feb. 3, 2002 Super Bowl XXXVI New England 20, St. Louis 17 *refs cheated in the Raiders game if i believe correct and also taped the rams
Jan. 3, 1999 AFC Wild Card Jacksonville 25, New England 10 JUST LOST
Jan. 3, 1998 AFC Divisional Pittsburgh 7, New England 6 CHOKE
Jan. 26, 1997 Super Bowl XXXI Green Bay 35, New England 21 CHOKE IN THE BIG GAME AGAIN!!!!!!!
Jan. 1, 1995 AFC Wild Card Cleveland 20, New England 13 CHOKE
Jan. 4, 1987 AFC Divisional Denver 22, New England 17 CHOKE
Jan. 26, 1986 Super Bowl XX Chicago 46, New England 10 MURDERED REMEMBER THIS GAME? WILLIAM PERRY DOES
Jan. 8, 1983 First Round Playoff Miami 28, New England 13 DESTROYED
Dec. 31, 1978 AFC Divisional Houston 31, New England 14 CRUSHED
Dec. 18, 1976 AFC Divisional Oakland 24, New England 21 I'LL SAY CHOKE
Jan. 5, 1964 AFL Championship San Diego 51, New England 10 DESTROYED

Hey once again proven stats cant argue them you can look these up for yourself looks like i own all of you fans here huh????

blacknell
10-04-2008, 06:22 PM
way to prove the point that you're a homer. if the astros or rangers were in the playoffs you would be polluting those threads as well. thanks for nothing, as usual.

like i said i don't watch baseball i dont know whos in the playoffs nor do i care i couldn't tell you who won the last world series my man

Crickr
10-04-2008, 06:31 PM
This is BS why don't you two Texans go somewhere else or has everyone else kicked your sorry buts out of their forums too? Iam thinking a mod is needed to get this under control.

BostonHooligan1
10-04-2008, 07:13 PM
hey moron Brady wasn't a rookie then it was his 2nd year in the league and this is a proven fact which can't be argued

you are correct it was his second year but it was his first year starting, halfway through the season. regardless brady has done more FOR his team than Romo...and thats a fact that cant be argued. Win a playoff game with Romo than start talkin **** .

cowboys8
10-04-2008, 07:21 PM
Need to put away your stat book.Did you bother checking the stats of the SB especially the final score?I'd take drugies and criminals over cheaters any day.Every time you post you prove my point for me.I agree the cowboys will and always will be the most successful franchise like it or not.2 things 10-20 years from now you'll be able to posts your stas about:whenever the pats are brought up in a sports talk,first thing will be how they cheated to win,and how they choked after a record setting year.There wins, playoff and Sb will always be tainted in the minds of everyone but a pats fans.Your ignorance is very clear and now not really sure if you watch or no anything about football or just a NE bandwagon fan.All you post is something someone else had posted or written.You really have made no points at all.You have made great excuses for your team,that you do great.Post something you come up w/instead of getting out your old stat books.NFL isn't about stats its about winning and losing.;)

The Intimidator
10-04-2008, 07:53 PM
I don't know how many times I have to say this to you morons: there was NO Rams' walkthrough tape!!! I will repeat myself, because you obviously won't accept the truth if it doesn't help your argument: Matt Walsh admitted that he lied and that there was NO Rams' walkthrough tape. One more time, because apparently everything is bigger in Texas with the exception of its citizens' brains: NO TAPE!!!! We didn't tape the Rams' walkthrough, it was a lie and the Boston Herald had to print a retraction after Matt Walsh admitted that he lied. Super Bowl 36 was NOT tainted in any way. Okay Blacknell? Can you read this post or do you need your mother to help you sound out the words? Let me say it in terms even you can understand: Intimidator says NO TAPE y'all!!!

The Intimidator
10-04-2008, 07:56 PM
you are correct it was his second year but it was his first year starting, halfway through the season. regardless brady has done more FOR his team than Romo...and thats a fact that cant be argued. Win a playoff game with Romo than start talkin **** .

Romo needs to win several playoff games before Blacknell can talk ****, but he is too busy sucking Romo's dick to read this post anyway.

blacknell
10-04-2008, 08:01 PM
Romo needs to win several playoff games before Blacknell can talk ****, but he is too busy sucking Romo's dick to read this post anyway.

once again stats do not lie and i notice you are running away from what i posted because you know i am right and you are wrong just admit it

BostonHooligan1
10-04-2008, 08:01 PM
Need to put away your stat book.Did you bother checking the stats of the SB especially the final score?I'd take drugies and criminals over cheaters any day.Every time you post you prove my point for me.I agree the cowboys will and always will be the most successful franchise like it or not.2 things 10-20 years from now you'll be able to posts your stas about:whenever the pats are brought up in a sports talk,first thing will be how they cheated to win,and how they choked after a record setting year.There wins, playoff and Sb will always be tainted in the minds of everyone but a pats fans.Your ignorance is very clear and now not really sure if you watch or no anything about football or just a NE bandwagon fan.All you post is something someone else had posted or written.You really have made no points at all.You have made great excuses for your team,that you do great.Post something you come up w/instead of getting out your old stat books.NFL isn't about stats its about winning and losing.;)

first off you continue to contradict yourself, you start off by asking if we checked the stats of the super bowl in 01, then you finish your statement with stats dont matter, only winning or losing matters. And i believe we WON the super bowl. So thank you for proving our point once again.
It doesnt matter what other fans think, it only matters what is proven, and NONE of the superbowl championships were ever proven that because of the video we had is the reason we won, thats why the tapes were destroyed and the NFL has stated that no conclusive evidence was shown on the tapes. BB and the pats were only fined because they broke the rules of video taping, not because they used it to win. Because it would be impossible to win using video tapes of old signals. The teams change their signals every week. And we still havent herd your response to JimmyJohnson talking about how the cowboys have done simmilar taping...i guess your ignorance has no bounds. The cowboys are NOT the Most successfull team as they hold the same amount of titles with about three teams i believe? They are ONE of the most productive teams due to their success in the past. That cannot be argued, but as for the present thay are one of the biggest choke artists in the post season.

blacknell
10-04-2008, 08:03 PM
4:51 pm enough said since stats matter

BostonHooligan1
10-04-2008, 08:09 PM
4:51 pm enough said since stats matter

i guess you and cowboy havent talked today to plan what you two were going to say...even your own says stats dont matter...only winning and losing does. you guys are on the same page like Romo and T.O.

blacknell
10-04-2008, 08:31 PM
yea thats what i thought beat around the facts buddy.. everything matters