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BlueZoo
09-22-2008, 10:21 AM
There's a lot of talk, mostly swirling around Clint Hurdle/ Rockies, about laying down and basically 'rolling over' for teams because he hates the Dodgers.
Now I'm not saying it's true or not true, because I don't know...but it's definitely out there...big time.
It would be a very difficult thing to prove (maybe impossible), but I think if there's any substance to it, it should be investigated by ML BB.
With what has gone on with illegal substances and the black eye that BB has received from investigations and indictments, etc., this is the last thing the game needs. And it's not because it's directed obviously at one team, the Dodgers. It should never go on at any time
IMO, it is no different than shaving points in basketball , or playing games a la the Black Sox. It should be illegal... and how do the CO fans feel about this , I wonder? Is it OK with them?
If Selig had any balls he'd at least make it known to the fans of BB everywhere that he is aware of the possibilty of this occuring...in light of the recent public hatred stated by Hurdle and his curious lineups , and the Rockies position in controlling the outcome of the division winner, it should certainly be part of his duty as Commissioner of BB to do so.

DodgerBlue2008
09-22-2008, 10:44 AM
Colorado can roll over all they want, in the end it's still up to us to defeat our opponents. If somehow, everything falls apart and we don't win the west, we have no one to blame (including Colorado) but ourselves.

With that said, Go Dodgers!!

Sleeper
09-22-2008, 11:03 AM
Colorado can roll over all they want, in the end it's still up to us to defeat our opponents. If somehow, everything falls apart and we don't win the west, we have no one to blame (including Colorado) but ourselves.

With that said, Go Dodgers!!

:clap::clap:

BlueZoo
09-22-2008, 11:37 AM
Incredible.The two of you totally missed the point-went right over your head.
There's no way in a million years I would blame our losing to the Giants on Colorado or Hurdle or whatever. We lost to the Giants because they outplayed us and fought hard to beat us, and deserved to win and we deserved to lose. Plain and simple... they were better than we were.
What I wrote was meant to be an indictment of any suspicious behavior by teams that have some say in the outcome of the division; I even put a caveat in there so it wouldn't be taken any other way, as an excuse, but I guess it was totally lost on you. Your response has nothing to do with I wrote at all.
Any team at any time. It's low class and suspicious...
If the situation were different and the Giants were in our spot, would you want the Dodgers to roll over for the team chasing them?
That's not what it's all about.

bestlakersfan
09-22-2008, 12:09 PM
Blue, your point is taken and you are correct. If a certain attitude or level of purposeful “playing easy” is taken towards one specific team that is just as bad as any corrupt action by any person in any sport, taken to a whole new level because it would be a team conducting itself that way.

With that said, knowing baseball and all the rules of conduct, its unwritten rules and overall respect for the game, I would highly doubt this could get pulled off. It would mean every single person on the team would have to agree on it. The manager could in some ways, i.e. pitching BS pitchers, pinch hitting at incorrect times, etc…, do this single handedly, but just know that he would lose respect from everyone on the team and those players who respect the game would most likely let their displeasure be known.

Also, seeing that Rockies beat them once, and damn near did it again, I don’t think that they laid down by any means.

BlueMouse
09-22-2008, 12:36 PM
If you take what you said and change some of the words:
"Clint Hurdle/Rockies" --> Manny Ramirez
"teams" --> Red Sox
"the Dodgers" --> his contract

Then you sound like a whiney bawston fan.

In_Ned_I_Trust
09-22-2008, 12:41 PM
BlueZoo, I get what your saying but I think it would be really too hard to prove, especially when they beat the Dbacks in that series. We would like to think that professional athletes do have some pride in what they do and wouldn't just phone it in for the rest of the year.

darth550
09-22-2008, 12:46 PM
If Selig had any balls

LMAO! Big "IF"! How many times and how many ways has he proven he doesn't???? :):)

Fact is, what he should have done is levy a 50K fine (or something substantial) on Hurdle for exhibiting blatant indiscretion as a MLB mgr.

If he feels that way about the Dodgers then fine, but some things should never be said to reporters if you are in a position of authority and (supposed) respect in any organization.... period!

BlueZoo
09-22-2008, 01:53 PM
I agree...almost impossible to prove on any level. Just something you can get away with...I'm not even saying he's doing it. But that unbelievable tirade just before , like you said, was "conduct unbecoming"...even in the good 'ol 1st Amendment USA...
I don't understand what you are trying to write Mouse, if it's addressed to me...If you say I'm a whiney Boston -like fan because I care about the integrity of the game, and that it has something to do with Dodgers swoon, wherever it winds up, then you belong with the first two genius'...
WTF are you talking about? If I changed this and that? Ramirez? Contract?
Beyond ridiculous.

BlueMouse
09-22-2008, 02:12 PM
^ Boston fans were arguing about the integrity of the game as it related to Manny Ramirez. I just find a strong parallel between the two situations. Both are impossible to prove. Both are motivated by a selfish interest in one's team. You can take that for what it's worth. I'm not trying to be a jerk, so I apologize if I sound like I am.

I agree that Clint Hurdle's comment about hating the Dodgers was wrong. And if he had never said it, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. No matter what, I think the Dodgers are faced with a slight disadvantage in that everyone in our division thinks we are their rival, and they will always be up when playing us (even if it is on a subconcious level).

LAFord
09-22-2008, 02:26 PM
I agree that Clint Hurdle's comment about hating the Dodgers was wrong. And if he had never said it, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. No matter what, I think the Dodgers are faced with a slight disadvantage in that everyone in our division thinks we are their rival, and they will always be up when playing us (even if it is on a subconcious level).
I totally agree , especially the bold part.
IMO I do not think the Rockies are lying down, rolling over, trying to help AZ in anyway.

-To me, this is what happens when demoralized teams like COL, with nothing to play for, play like in September.
-It is a time to try out options for next year.
-Players like Holiday aren't going to play through injuries when there's no reason too. They would've played if they had a shot still. Instead, it's a good time to experiment.
-AZ has played against the NL West good all year.
-Adam Dunn is playing in an atomsphere he wasn't in earlier, and making the best of it.
-Haren and Webb are trying to salvage what were their best years, and have improved their games a bit lately.

LAFord
09-22-2008, 02:28 PM
Just a thought...

Is it possible that AZ deserves some credit for NOT throwing in the towel and beating COL? If that was the Dodgers, we'd be congratulating them for showing lots of heart.

FlawlessKB24
09-22-2008, 02:39 PM
^i agree
f' colorado
Arizona gets credit for doing their job. we gotta do ours now

LAdiablo
09-22-2008, 03:15 PM
I totally agree , especially the bold part.
IMO I do not think the Rockies are lying down, rolling over, trying to help AZ in anyway.

-To me, this is what happens when demoralized teams like COL, with nothing to play for, play like in September.
-It is a time to try out options for next year.
-Players like Holiday aren't going to play through injuries when there's no reason too. They would've played if they had a shot still. Instead, it's a good time to experiment.
-AZ has played against the NL West good all year.
-Adam Dunn is playing in an atomsphere he wasn't in earlier, and making the best of it.
-Haren and Webb are trying to salvage what were their best years, and have improved their games a bit lately.

+1 the only thing i can add is that integrity is a lost art in all facets, if he is trying out options it best be against both teams. sure seemed the rox played full tilt last week.

t327
09-22-2008, 03:41 PM
+1 the only thing i can add is that integrity is a lost art in all facets, if he is trying out options it best be against both teams. sure seemed the rox played full tilt last week.

I think they were mathematically still in it last week.

southerndodgerf
09-22-2008, 03:49 PM
Hurdle stated that he would play his best 9 and they would play their hardest even when eliminated out of respect for the game. It is obvious what happened. Anyone who does not see it, is not looking.

DodgerBlue2008
09-22-2008, 04:00 PM
Incredible.The two of you totally missed the point-went right over your head.
There's no way in a million years I would blame our losing to the Giants on Colorado or Hurdle or whatever. We lost to the Giants because they outplayed us and fought hard to beat us, and deserved to win and we deserved to lose. Plain and simple... they were better than we were.
What I wrote was meant to be an indictment of any suspicious behavior by teams that have some say in the outcome of the division; I even put a caveat in there so it wouldn't be taken any other way, as an excuse, but I guess it was totally lost on you. Your response has nothing to do with I wrote at all.
Any team at any time. It's low class and suspicious...
If the situation were different and the Giants were in our spot, would you want the Dodgers to roll over for the team chasing them?
That's not what it's all about.

First of all, where did I mention the Giants? I in no way said that you said we should balme our losing on the Giants to Colorado. Even if you are talking about the "integrity of the game" as you say, it basically sounds like you are setting up for someone to come off with "if we lose the division it's because Colorado rolled over and gave Arizona the easy wins to overtake us and we would have won if they didn't." What I'm saying is, even if Colorado (or any other team) were to roll over for a team(Arizona), it shouldn't matter. In the end, it's still up to team in 1st (Dodgers) to get their job done so a screw job like that wouldn't even be a factor. Because of that, I'd much rather do what I can to support my team than whine about the unfair things other teams are doing to beat us. Which by the way, as other people have posted, it doesn't seem like Colorado is laying down.

And by the way, you can talk about "keeping the integrity of the game" all you want but that integrity was lost a long time ago. If you think this game had any integrity at all in the first place, maybe you should reasearch all the instances of teams doing anything and everything they can to win (whether hidden or out in the open, fair or unfair). This game is full of one team doing anything they can to overtake the other, it may not be completely fair all the time, but that's what I love about it.

BlueZoo
09-22-2008, 04:08 PM
Just a thought...

Is it possible that AZ deserves some credit for NOT throwing in the towel and beating COL? If that was the Dodgers, we'd be congratulating them for showing lots of heart.

Absoluely, great point LAF...they are getting it done and kicking azz and playing tough; coming through when they need to...the exact opposite that we are doing.

BlueZoo
09-22-2008, 04:21 PM
Unless you fancy yourself as some kind of psychic, don't tell me what I'm "setting up" for....if you read this forum on a regular basis, then you know I don't mince words and I have no problem at all expressing myself and telling it like it is. None at all.
So instead of your psychlogical "spin" for what you erroneously think I'm going to say, just read the f***ing words...it's so much easier.
You didn't get what I posted initially and you put your own spin on it. It's not about the Dodgers losing and the situation now; it's only because it's been suggested many times recently that CO is rolling over.
There's no excuses for a team like the Dodgers that (before last game,1-0) gives up 32 or 33 runs in the four games preceding in a stretch run. 8+ runs per game? and you think I'm blaming Colorado for that abomination?
Only little kids and saps would blame another team.
And if most of the game's integrity was lost along time ago, like you say, what are we supposed to do - give up and just let it fester and get worse and worse...the game is worth fighting for and at least trying to save and keep as right as possible...unless of course we leave it to those who feel like you do.

BTW, I mentioned the Giants because we lost to the Giants right?

LAFord
09-22-2008, 04:53 PM
I think they were mathematically still in it last week.
Yes, that was they're last chance...and we disabled them.:)

DodgerBlue2008
09-22-2008, 05:05 PM
Unless you fancy yourself as some kind of psychic, don't tell me what I'm "setting up" for....if you read this forum on a regular basis, then you know I don't mince words and I have no problem at all expressing myself and telling it like it is. None at all.
So instead of your psychlogical "spin" for what you erroneously think I'm going to say, just read the f***ing words...it's so much easier.
You didn't get what I posted initially and you put your own spin on it. It's not about the Dodgers losing and the situation now; it's only because it's been suggested many times recently that CO is rolling over.
There's no excuses for a team like the Dodgers that (before last game,1-0) gives up 32 or 33 runs in the four games preceding in a stretch run. 8+ runs per game? and you think I'm blaming Colorado for that abomination?
Only little kids and saps would blame another team.
And if most of the game's integrity was lost along time ago, like you say, what are we supposed to do - give up and just let it fester and get worse and worse...the game is worth fighting for and at least trying to save and keep as right as possible...unless of course we leave it to those who feel like you do.

BTW, I mentioned the Giants because we lost to the Giants right?

I understand what you're saying and I'm saying who cares. Colorado can do what they want. If they want to screw up their season even more by intentionally losing games then good for them. And by the way, if it were true, I take it as a sign of respect to us that they feel like they have to lay down to let another team get over us. I really doubt this happens in today's game anyways. In the past, teams were like gangs and players did anything they could to get their "gang" ahead or stop the rival "gang" from getting ahead. In today's game, players are mainly concerned about their personal achievements and their paycheck. There aren't too many guys who really put their team ahead of personal gain, so I really don't think players would be willing to roll over so one team can beat another (even if their manager would like it to happen).

As far as the integrity of the game, or lack of, I see nothing wrong with it. It may not be fair all the time, but what really is? In that aspect, I see the game a lot like life. I'm not saying everyone who either played or plays has cheated, but I'm willing to guess 99% has cheated in one aspect or another. From the corked bats and pine tar, to pitchers modifying the ball, to steroids, even when a runner argues that he is safe when the world can see he was out and gets away with it, or a catcher catches a ball in a way to try to make a ball look like a strike. If there was no cheating at all in this game, it would be nothing like we know it now. You want so badly to stop the cheaters but if you think about it, some of our beloved Dodgers have probably cheated in some aspect through out the years.

G2BOAT
09-22-2008, 07:54 PM
Our division rivals do pack it in because they don't want the Dodgers winning the Division and going to the playoffs. Hurdle did his best by not playing Holiday because he hates the Dodgers. Just like last night, Yankees-Orioles, MLB probably a little something for the Orioles because they wanted the Yankees to win there last home game at Yankee Stadium.

CAIN=FUTURE
09-22-2008, 08:53 PM
This kind of things have been going on since the beginning of baseball. The only thing you can do is go out and just win. If you win then it makes no difference.

Last time I checked the dodgers are leading the division. If the Rockies roll over for the D-Backs all you can do is go out and win. If you win it won't mater.

One thing my Little League coach told me, a.k.a Jerry Rice (Yeah, that Jerry Rice), if you want to win you have to take it.

sizzlin
09-22-2008, 11:50 PM
This kind of things have been going on since the beginning of baseball. The only thing you can do is go out and just win. If you win then it makes no difference.

Last time I checked the dodgers are leading the division. If the Rockies roll over for the D-Backs all you can do is go out and win. If you win it won't mater.

One thing my Little League coach told me, a.k.a Jerry Rice (Yeah, that Jerry Rice), if you want to win you have to take it.

Yeah but the giants are playing good against us...its not fair.

CAIN=FUTURE
09-23-2008, 12:11 AM
Yeah but the giants are playing good against us...its not fair.

Life isn't fair. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the Giants are gonna turn up their game on the dodgers, especially with the given situation.

sizzlin
09-23-2008, 12:27 AM
Life isn't fair. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the Giants are gonna turn up their game on the dodgers, especially with the given situation.

I was being sarcastic with the not fair thing. I totally expect the giants to play their hardest against the dodgers now. I'm just mad that the dodgers are taking it like they are. It's time to step up.

CAIN=FUTURE
09-23-2008, 12:30 AM
I was being sarcastic with the not fair thing. I totally expect the giants to play their hardest against the dodgers now. I'm just mad that the dodgers are taking it like they are. It's time to step up.

I sensed a little sarcasm. Its not easy over the computer that's what these are for :):(:confused::mad::rolleyes::cool::p:eyebrow:;) :cry::clap::speechless::smoking::D etc.....

Anyways, that's the point I've been trying to make. If the dodgers lose this, they only have them self to blame.

IBleedBlue15
09-23-2008, 12:30 AM
I was being sarcastic with the not fair thing. I totally expect the giants to play their hardest against the dodgers now. I'm just mad that the dodgers are taking it like they are. It's time to step up.

LET'S FINISH THIS ****!!!

IBleedBlue15
09-23-2008, 12:31 AM
I sensed a little sarcasm. Its not easy over the computer that's what these are for :):(:confused::mad::rolleyes::cool::p:eyebrow:;):c ry::clap::speechless::smoking::D etc.....

Anyways, that's the point I've been trying to make. If the dodgers lose this, they only have them self to blame.

Strangely, I agree. It's our own fault if we lose it, I mean the Giants and the Padres are garbage.

CAIN=FUTURE
09-23-2008, 12:32 AM
Strangely, I agree. It's our own fault if we lose it, I mean the Giants and the Padres are garbage.

Just to let you know, the Giants have played just as well as the dodgers in the last few months.

IBleedBlue15
09-23-2008, 12:35 AM
Just to let you know, the Giants have played just as well as the dodgers in the last few months.

Strange and hard to beleive. The record doesn't show... That's probably why...

sizzlin
09-23-2008, 12:37 AM
I sensed a little sarcasm. Its not easy over the computer that's what these are for :):(:confused::mad::rolleyes::cool::p:eyebrow:;) :cry::clap::speechless::smoking::D etc.....

Anyways, that's the point I've been trying to make. If the dodgers lose this, they only have them self to blame.

sorry. I was afraid that you werent gonna sense the sarcasm and totally bash me for the post. Ill use a smilie face next time:)

CAIN=FUTURE
09-23-2008, 12:39 AM
sorry. I was afraid that you werent gonna sense the sarcasm and totally bash me for the post. Ill use a smilie face next time:)

Good :mad:

jk :D

CAIN=FUTURE
09-23-2008, 12:39 AM
Strange and hard to beleive. The record doesn't show... That's probably why...

They have a winning record in the second 1/2.

IBleedBlue15
09-23-2008, 12:41 AM
They have a winning record in the second 1/2.

I meant overall.

CAIN=FUTURE
09-23-2008, 12:53 AM
I meant overall.

Oh....

well we still have 7 or 8 teams to look down on.

IBleedBlue15
09-23-2008, 12:56 AM
Oh....

well we still have 7 or 8 teams to look down on.

I guess so...

CAIN=FUTURE
09-23-2008, 12:58 AM
I guess so...

And every team in the West will always have the Padres to look down on.