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BTownTeamsRKing
09-21-2008, 09:54 PM
i know it is easy to overreact after watching an awful game and losing to a team that we should have crushed so im going to make it easier.

GET A VETERAN QB OR THE SEASON IS A WASTE.

now im not saying todays loss was all Cassel's fault bc it wasnt. the defense and the defense lack of preparedness was at fault as well.

However, the fact is if we need to throw the ball and the other team knows we have to throw, WE CANNOT PASS. Cassel's throws were awful and he even got lucky that he didnt end up with 3 interceptions bc he easily could have if they could catch.

the defense will never play this bad again. in fairness to the defense, the miami gameplan was very odd and it was a total surprise so i dont blame them for not being ready for that stupid formation becuz if u prepare for that, then u have psychic power.

bottom line: just get an EXPERIENCED QB. if we dont get our WRs the ball, they will start to quit.

so now who do we get? NO BLEDSOE OR FLUTIE JOKES. not the time.

Hometeamrivals
09-21-2008, 10:39 PM
The Patriots should have signed Simms but Bill has faith in Cassel

The Intimidator
09-21-2008, 10:42 PM
I'm so sick and tired of this...we lost because of our DEFENSE! Was Cassel good? No. In fact, he looked kind of like a deer in the headlights today. But even if he looked good, we still would have lost because our defense was terrible. Stop jumping ship after one game. You guys have absolutely no faith in this team. WOW!

KingJamsI
09-21-2008, 11:01 PM
Its not jumping ship, it's just being realistic. Im not ready to pack it in for the season but watching Cassel today, regardless of the defense, was unsettling. He does not have the accuracy or the coolness that Brady had in his second start, and blowout loss to the Phins. Cassel doesn't throw a very nice ball, the WRs have to make a huge adjustment to almost every pass. He is easily flustered and very slow at reading. The only good thing I can say about him is he doesn't throw the "who the hell was that to" interceptions. at least not yet. But the bottom line is this is a 6-7 win team if Cassel is playing at this level, and we run a bastardized version of Brady's spread offense like we've been doing. We need a totally different level of QB play from Cassel or elsewhere, or we need to play smashmouth.
If it were up to me, i'd sign 2 TEs and just play Jumbo sets and hammer Lamont Jordan, but then again this line has been built for pass protection and they really dont excel at creating holes.

BTownTeamsRKing
09-21-2008, 11:05 PM
I'm so sick and tired of this...we lost because of our DEFENSE! Was Cassel good? No. In fact, he looked kind of like a deer in the headlights today. But even if he looked good, we still would have lost because our defense was terrible. Stop jumping ship after one game. You guys have absolutely no faith in this team. WOW!

it comes down to this man. if we need to throw to win, can we do it?

the answer is definitely not yes. i have faith in the team bouncing back. miami's gameplan was crazy and theres almost no way to prepare for it, but im looken at the rest of the season and the fact is we dont have a proven passer, which hurts Moss and Welker. we need to use to our weapons, and right now we cant.

im not sittin through a season of rotating young QBs. theres no point wen u know Brady will be back next year.

The Intimidator
09-21-2008, 11:08 PM
Its not jumping ship, it's just being realistic. Im not ready to pack it in for the season but watching Cassel today, regardless of the defense, was unsettling. He does not have the accuracy or the coolness that Brady had in his second start, and blowout loss to the Phins. Cassel doesn't throw a very nice ball, the WRs have to make a huge adjustment to almost every pass. He is easily flustered and very slow at reading. The only good thing I can say about him is he doesn't throw the "who the hell was that to" interceptions. at least not yet. But the bottom line is this is a 6-7 win team if Cassel is playing at this level, and we run a bastardized version of Brady's spread offense like we've been doing. We need a totally different level of QB play from Cassel or elsewhere, or we need to play smashmouth.
If it were up to me, i'd sign 2 TEs and just play Jumbo sets and hammer Lamont Jordan, but then again this line has been built for pass protection and they really dont excel at creating holes.

Making logical arguments such as the one you just made is fine. It's the illogical panic of others in this forum that gets under my skin. They are the first to complement Cassel after a win, such as last week, but after they lose those same people start asking why we didn't sign Chris Simms or when Kevin O'Connell is going to start. It's just annoying.

bagwell368
09-21-2008, 11:13 PM
There is not a thought or action that BB has not considered relating to his team, or to this issue. If and when action needs to be taken it will be.

If you think a guy like Culpepper can do better then Cassel, you don't know a thing about the Pats offense.

BTownTeamsRKing
09-21-2008, 11:17 PM
everyone answer this question:

if we need to throw the ball to win, can it be done with Cassel?

imo its no and our running game is not good enough to make up for it.

bagwell368
09-21-2008, 11:45 PM
everyone answer this question:

if we need to throw the ball to win, can it be done with Cassel?

imo its no and our running game is not good enough to make up for it.

I'm sure a lot of people on other pro football boards are getting a kick out of u tonight, but, it's getting old now. Take a chill pill.

bagwell368
09-21-2008, 11:46 PM
everyone answer this question:

if we need to throw the ball to win, can it be done with Cassel?

imo its no and our running game is not good enough to make up for it.

every team needs to throw, we have thrown in all 3 games and are 2-1. A 10-6 or 11-5 season is possible, perhaps a 8-8 one as well.

BTownTeamsRKing
09-21-2008, 11:51 PM
u just keep pretending Cassel will lead us to a SB and wen he does i will celebrate and say i was wrong, but until then im gonna question a team that lost by over 20 to the worst team in football.

phinzphan6288
09-22-2008, 12:11 AM
I'm so sick and tired of this...we lost because of our DEFENSE! Was Cassel good? No. In fact, he looked kind of like a deer in the headlights today. But even if he looked good, we still would have lost because our defense was terrible. Stop jumping ship after one game. You guys have absolutely no faith in this team. WOW!

they have no faith cuz their not real fans. real fans wont give up on a man cuz he had one bad game. all the nfl greats have had a bad game in their carrer. montana, marino, brady, manning all of them. and yes u are correct your D was horrible against us. even wit tom brady the out come woulda still been the same jus maybe not as bad.

cocossox
09-22-2008, 03:42 AM
To all the people with blinders on, who actually think Cassell is good your all in for a rude awakening...I realize the D played poorly & granted its not all on cassell but there were like 4 or 5 simple thows today that he shouldve completed and he didn't even come close. would it have made a difference probally not but those throws need to be completed & if he can't make the simple throws find a QB that can...:mad:

Patsfan56
09-22-2008, 07:57 AM
It is way too early to push the panic button. Our Defense was somewhere, but it wasn't on the football field for this game. Its not all on Cassell. We all discussed this in these forums before. This whole team needs to come together to have a good season. But we also knew there would likely be hiccups along the way. I will grant you, I did not think it would be this week. But that is what arrogance gets us. Overlook a team, and they shove it down your throat.

All this talk of veteran QBs, rotations, I don't know. BB has given Cassell an opportunity. It is too early to judge this decision. I questioned it before, I admit it. But now the season is still early.

I am confident we will not see the same kind of performance in the next game. And I am not panicking yet. Hell, I watched this team suck for decades. One game does not a season make....

griff141
09-22-2008, 09:16 AM
I think the biggest problem on offense were seeing is that this offense is built for Tom Brady. Matt Cassel is trying to run Tom Brady's offense and what needs to happen is for the coaching staff to go back to the drawing board and change things up on offense and make it work for Cassel. Matt can't make the quick reads like Tom can, he can't change his protection like Tom can, he can't read defenses like Tom can, and he can't throw the ball like Tom can. We need to see more of a ground game, and get back to the screens and quick passes, which might be hard to do because this offense is now built to be a high octane explosive passing machine.

MilledgeGomez
09-22-2008, 09:23 AM
We all need to calm down we are 2-1, we have a bye week to readjust the game plan and then we play the 49ers, we have one of the easiest schedules and can easily make the playoffs. Cassel had a bad game no need to jump off the bridge

BTownTeamsRKing
09-22-2008, 09:56 AM
To all the people with blinders on, who actually think Cassell is good your all in for a rude awakening...I realize the D played poorly & granted its not all on cassell but there were like 4 or 5 simple thows today that he shouldve completed and he didn't even come close. would it have made a difference probally not but those throws need to be completed & if he can't make the simple throws find a QB that can...:mad:

exactly.

i was not expecting Cassel to put up 40 points and win the game, but the fact is his throws were awful yesterday. he had problems throwing 5 yard passes and everyone thought they would let him throw deep a little this week. the guy couldnt connect with anyone.

u can say its 1 loss and its really no big deal, but it becomes a big deal if we cant run the ball.

another major point: There is no point in trying to train Cassel. he is NOT OUR FUTURE QB. we just need someone to run the offense this year. thats it. we are not rebuilding for the future. get someone who can step in now and everything will be good. i just dont see the point of trying to make this work and possibly wasting a season.

ERLynx
09-22-2008, 10:09 AM
I'd love to be able to add to this argument, but I didnt get to see the game. Do I think Cassel is good enough to win these games? Yes and no. Basically, right now, I am every "man on the street" from the south park "change the flag" episode. Do I think it's racist? But do I think it's part of history? yes.

The reason I've bothered to chime in is this: I've noticed people saying we "should have gotten Simms when he was available." But he is no longer available. Are there any other veteran QB's available that could right this ship?

Where's KG?
09-22-2008, 10:19 AM
Wasn't Maroney and another running back out for you guys too? That probably had a big impact. At any rate giving up a 40 spot to the freakin dolphins???? Brady himself may not have been able to help with that one...unless he was gonna play D-Back. Yall will have an OK season.....just so used to winning lately this is new for you. Don't think a SB is in the cards this year though....but who knows, crazier things have happened

ddudeman0101
09-22-2008, 11:59 AM
I think that having a bye week this week is great for the pats as they have a lot of work to do. Im not ready to completely give up on cassel but being at the game yesterday he threw some passes that everyone was like who was that to and most of the time the receiver was open. I also think the game changed on the touchdown that was called back in the 1st quarter. The game went from 7-0 pats to 7-0 miami and a matter of minutes.

bball11588
09-22-2008, 01:20 PM
Jeff Garcia is the answer. He's a winner and he's the third string QB for the Bucs. He can't be worth more than a 5th round pick. If we get Garcia the team will be rejuvenated and they could make a serious run with Garcia's experience at the helm.

Securb
09-22-2008, 01:43 PM
Bring back an Ex-Patriot like maybe Michael Bishop I think he is with the Saskatchewan Roughriders these days :laugh:

The Intimidator
09-22-2008, 01:47 PM
Jeff Garcia is the answer. He's a winner and he's the third string QB for the Bucs. He can't be worth more than a 5th round pick. If we get Garcia the team will be rejuvenated and they could make a serious run with Garcia's experience at the helm.

As I mentioned in another thread, it would take much more than a 5th rounder to acquire Garcia. The Bucs aren't going to just accomodate the Patriots; they know that if we contact them, it would be out of desperation. They would either ask for another player or a 2nd or 3rd round pick. Another factor would be the time it ould take for garcia to learn our offense, which differs from Tampa's. Unless the Pats acquired Garcia today and he crammed an entire playbook into his brain during the bye week, then it would still take a few games for him to adjust to our offense. By then, Cassel very well could have gotten a grip on being an NFL starter.

SoxPatsC'sB's#1
09-22-2008, 03:32 PM
Making logical arguments such as the one you just made is fine. It's the illogical panic of others in this forum that gets under my skin. They are the first to complement Cassel after a win, such as last week, but after they lose those same people start asking why we didn't sign Chris Simms or when Kevin O'Connell is going to start. It's just annoying.

I thought u used to have "I believe in Matt Cassel pictures and quotes in your comments page, what happened??? LOL

futureheisman
09-22-2008, 05:12 PM
chris simms jeff garcia maybe even matt leinart

R. Johnson#3
09-22-2008, 05:36 PM
so now who do we get? NO BLEDSOE OR FLUTIE JOKES. not the time.

VINNY TESTAVERDE

bagwell368
09-22-2008, 05:45 PM
Jeff Garcia is the answer. He's a winner and he's the third string QB for the Bucs. He can't be worth more than a 5th round pick. If we get Garcia the team will be rejuvenated and they could make a serious run with Garcia's experience at the helm.

Wrong. He is widely reported as a bad presence. If he was so freakin great why isn't he higher up in the depth chart? TB's refuse is going to suddenly make the Pats into a 500 point offensive club again? After how many weeks 83?

The Intimidator
09-22-2008, 06:50 PM
I thought u used to have "I believe in Matt Cassel pictures and quotes in your comments page, what happened??? LOL

First of all, welcome to PSD. Don't be a stranger. Second of all, as I mentioned in another thread to some idiot Dolphins fan by the name of hometeamrivals, I removed my Cassel pics because today is the beginning of hockey season, and I am a hockey fan first and foremost.

ERLynx
09-23-2008, 10:29 AM
Don't make multiple screen names because you want to flame a particular member of the site. If you have something to say, and a reason to back it up, be a man and do it.

Crickr
09-23-2008, 11:25 AM
Cassell is the man and we will have to see what happens good or bad. You can't put all the blame on the QB as I noticed the O line and D were not playing well at all on Sunday. I am not saying the QB is doing great but he needs more time then the O line was giving him.

cmoneytakemoney
09-23-2008, 11:41 AM
Cassell is the man and we will have to see what happens good or bad. You can't put all the blame on the QB as I noticed the O line and D were not playing well at all on Sunday. I am not saying the QB is doing great but he needs more time then the O line was giving him.

Yeah but, even if Cassel had protection it wouldn't make much of a difference because his arm is straight trash. A couple of plays when he had very good protection he missed the open receiver real bad and, when he tried to go deep a couple of times the ball was really shaky. He doesn't have a great arm and he is never going to have a great arm. This guy was so close to being released when the team trimmed down the roster to 53 and now everyone is saying the Patriots are going to stick with him. Why? He's not our QB of the future. The Patriots probably flipped a coin between him and Gutierrez to see who the final QB on the roster was. They should just bring in a veteran with a decent arm for one year and at least try to make a run because Brady's coming back next year and Cassel just isn't capable of winning at this level.

69centers
09-23-2008, 12:25 PM
double

69centers
09-23-2008, 12:26 PM
Yeah but, even if Cassel had protection it wouldn't make much of a difference because his arm is straight trash. A couple of plays when he had very good protection he missed the open receiver real bad and, when he tried to go deep a couple of times the ball was really shaky. He doesn't have a great arm and he is never going to have a great arm. This guy was so close to being released when the team trimmed down the roster to 53 and now everyone is saying the Patriots are going to stick with him. Why? He's not our QB of the future. The Patriots probably flipped a coin between him and Gutierrez to see who the final QB on the roster was. They should just bring in a veteran with a decent arm for one year and at least try to make a run because Brady's coming back next year and Cassel just isn't capable of winning at this level.

Absolutely, but more importantly, will Brady ever return to his normal form after the two knee tears? We need someone who's got experience, but not too old and can continue playing into next year, just in case Brady is ineffective to start next season. We can't just assume that come opening game next year, that Brady will be his same old self, because he might not be. It's a decision that affects not only this year, but possibly next.

bagwell368
09-23-2008, 01:27 PM
Yeah but, even if Cassel had protection it wouldn't make much of a difference because his arm is straight trash. A couple of plays when he had very good protection he missed the open receiver real bad and, when he tried to go deep a couple of times the ball was really shaky. He doesn't have a great arm and he is never going to have a great arm. This guy was so close to being released when the team trimmed down the roster to 53 and now everyone is saying the Patriots are going to stick with him. Why? He's not our QB of the future. The Patriots probably flipped a coin between him and Gutierrez to see who the final QB on the roster was. They should just bring in a veteran with a decent arm for one year and at least try to make a run because Brady's coming back next year and Cassel just isn't capable of winning at this level.

Utter rubbish. He missed the throws because they were off the page on who should be where.

Do you know how Pioli and BB came to draft Cassel? It's a good story. They liked a kid who didn't play QB - giving way to two Heisman guys - who was a special teams ace, and also played TE, and kept his mouth shut. They liked his QB drills (including excellent marks on arm strength), and they liked his brains. BB would never toss a coin to decide a roster spot, MG was cut because he was judged to be the most expendable - prove otherwise. Two other teams planned on signing him as a FA, but the Pats took the plunge. They have drafted in the top 2 overall since Pioli/BB got here, doesn't mean they are always right, but they are more right then other teams or draft "experts".

Is he ever going to be Brady? Odds are against it, because in the history of pro football there are 3 guys w/ higher QB ratings then Brady. But is he good enough to be Bartowski or Morrall (IE lead a team to a Championshp with the starter down)? We'll see.

futureheisman
09-23-2008, 04:04 PM
how about leinart

The Intimidator
09-23-2008, 05:07 PM
how about leinart

What the hell are you smoking, dude? What makes you think that Arizona would trade Matt Leinart? Kurt Warner is 37 years old. Leinart is still their QB of the future.

patsphilosophy
09-24-2008, 08:55 AM
I was praying to god the Chris Simms rumors werent true. I can't believe all the pats fans that are crazy enough to even want this guy. He played horrible in Tampa leading up to his injury. I've never in my life seen a QB have so many throws stuffed back in his face , and not only that he had one of the lowest QB ratings in the league up to that point. Simms was not a good QB in Tampa. But since when do you have to be a good QB to start for the Buccs? Here are three names I would seriously consider. Trent Green , Brad Johnson or maybe even Jamie Martin. All theses guys are game managers , have quality backup experience and would be willing to come back next year if Brady wasnt ready. None of them should cost more than a 4th round pick.

The Intimidator
09-24-2008, 10:21 AM
Trent Green is starting for St. Louis now, so he's out, for all intents and purposes. Jamie Martin-no way. Brad Johnson could be a good fit, but I'm not sure Dallas would give him away. Romo is one blow to the knee away from being right where Brady is right now, and I'm sure they want an experienced back-up in case he goes down.

patsphilosophy
09-24-2008, 10:55 PM
I'm not saying right this very second trade for Trent Green. Once St.Louis finally realizes their season is a waste Trent will suddenly be expendable. I really dont see Dallas giving up Johnson either. Jamie Martin could be a back up to Cassel. I wasnt saying any should come in and be the stater. Any veteran that would be brought in would be backup to Cassel. If something were to happen to Cassel I'm not very confident that ODonnel or Guty could get the job done.

The Intimidator
09-25-2008, 12:46 AM
It's O'Connell, and I'm sorry, I just don't see us picking up Trent Green.

BosoxPapi61
09-25-2008, 05:36 PM
Dante Culpepper anyone???

The Intimidator
09-25-2008, 06:23 PM
Dante Culpepper anyone???

You mean the retired shell of himself Daunte Culpepper? No thanks.

bagwell368
09-26-2008, 09:08 AM
Trent Green is 38. Trent Greens last two seasons look like this:

'06 QB rating 74.1 7 TD 9 INT
'07 QB rating 72.6 5 TD 7 INT

His signature season was in '00 - 8 years ago. Assuming a scenario in which Cassel goes down for the year in Game 12, and you get Green today I would be willing to bet that Green would play better then the kid - but not good enough to win the SB, if that costs more then a mid 5th round pick - it isn't worth it.

Of all the names floated so far that make any sense I see 3: Green, Garcia and Warner - all old, all immobile, all with no clue about we are doing here. Green would seem to have the least left in the tank of the three.

If you get one of these guys, its probably for two years - which will serve as a back-up next year and shut up? It would also be the end of MC and MG in season or right after, because the kid would be #3 on the charts, and after '09 will be #2. After '10 he might be #1 for several reasons:

#1 Brady's contract is up after '10, given the severity of his injury he may never be the same, and paying big money for a fading player is not the Pats way.

#2 O'Connel may get game action and show he's really something, and even if #1 is only half true, he may get the job in '11

The Intimidator
09-26-2008, 10:37 AM
Let's draft Tim Tebow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :p

ERLynx
09-26-2008, 03:54 PM
we drafted o'connell to be our next QB, after Brady. If they thought highly enough of him to use a 3rd round pick, I say he's our guy.

The Intimidator
09-26-2008, 04:41 PM
Well, I don't think that they drafted him to be Tom Brady's successor, even though they drafted him fairly high. I think that they simply identified him as a talent that they couldn't pass up. I mean, this is Brady's 9th season. He's only 31, and he hadn't shown any signs of slowing down. I mean, without the injury, Brady's looking at 5 more seasons at least. Who knows, maybe he can still come back and play 4 or 5 more seasons. But regardless, I don't think that they drafted O'Connell with the intention of having him sit for 5 years and then starting him at age 27 or 28...

BostonHooligan1
09-26-2008, 11:54 PM
i was just in a forum where the topic was Bulger possibly an option for the pats.There were alot of negative thought to this idea in that forum but I for one dont think its a bad idea. Up untill Bulgers pass happy Offensive coordinator left he was impressive. The problem with Cassel, i think, is that the offensive line will not respond to him. The main need for an experienced QB is the leadership quality. Brady has commanded the Offense for the last 4 years. You take away the general you have a disoriented army, and thats exactly what the pats problem is. The changes and audiable that should be called are not because of cassels lack of experiece. you take a proven QB and put him in the Belichik system we may have another tremendous year... but untill u take away the rock from the rookie we are in trouble. I still think we should let Cassel try to redeem himself... if he cant get past the 49ers then its proven..he sucks. Bulger would be a good option, if he puts up brady like numbers his stock will go up, and then we can trade him when brady comes back.

cocossox
09-30-2008, 10:51 AM
Sorry but I have no faith in Matt Cassell what so ever call me crazy but at this point I'd settle for Jeff Garcia, not a big arm I know that but know how to manage the game n can move a little n is tough...good choice n I can't imagine he's happy about not starting in TB...but he wouldn't make waves he's a real pro.

The Intimidator
09-30-2008, 11:07 AM
Sorry but I have no faith in Matt Cassell what so ever call me crazy but at this point I'd settle for Jeff Garcia, not a big arm I know that but know how to manage the game n can move a little n is tough...good choice n I can't imagine he's happy about not starting in TB...but he wouldn't make waves he's a real pro.

Hate to disappoint you, but if we were going to pick him up, we would have done it by now.

dolphins4life
10-01-2008, 08:39 PM
You guys can have John Beck if you want him! lol

BostonHooligan1
10-02-2008, 05:18 PM
i miss the days when we were so bad, that when we actually did win, we celebrated like it was the super bowl... man im so envious of the dolphins fans.....i wish we could only win one game a year.....

The Intimidator
10-02-2008, 05:24 PM
i miss the days when we were so bad, that when we actually did win, we celebrated like it was the super bowl... man im so envious of the dolphins fans.....i wish we could only win one game a year.....

Easy now...don't want to make the dolphins fans come back...