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amare#1
09-20-2008, 10:02 AM
An article about the very real possibility of Barnes starting over Hill this season. Pay close attention to 'UPDATE' section at the end of the article:

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2008/09/19/matt-barnes-to-start-ahead-of-grant-hill/

IMO Barnes starting over Hill would be the best possible situation.

Another article about the topic and other stuff that went on at the Suns Fantasy Camp:

http://blackjesusdisciples.blogspot.com/2008/09/tired-legs-and-phoenix-suns-fantasy.html

Thoughts?

lavis
09-20-2008, 11:25 AM
I said earlier, Barnes has played most of his career against second units and reserve players where as Hill has played against starters. Hill should start.

leftie5
09-20-2008, 01:09 PM
I wouldn't mind that. For one it would limit Hill's playing time over the course of the season which would help for the playoffs. It would also give the second unit some veteran stability to go along with the younger guys. Sometimes it seems like our second unit would play too out of control, especially Leandro.

theimortalone
09-20-2008, 01:59 PM
I like it. I believe that Hill's leadership off the bench will be excellent!

1st Unit:
c : Shaq
PF: STAT
SF: Barnes(2nd coming of Marion for this team :D)
SG: Bell
PG: Nash
2nd Unit:
C : Rolo
PF: Diaw
SF: Hill
SG: Barbosa
PG: Dragic

kjfan
09-20-2008, 02:42 PM
when and where do I sign up for that fantasy camp thing? And how much does that cost? That would be sweet!!!

KiNgSuNs1
09-20-2008, 05:01 PM
in order for us to get back to our dominant form we have to have barnes start for spaceing reasons if you have 3 3pt threats it opens up the lanes for either nash to drive and dish and they wont be able to double team amare and shaq ......or if they do then we have a wide open 3 .....this is what made us so good in the past but with hilll starting they will let him shoot up 3's alll day and clog the lane....and hilll looks better with the 2nd unit because he can help control the ball and with his midrange shooting it will keep us going while nash is on the bench ...hill is a deadly midrange shooter u exspect it to go in everytime....

amare#1
09-20-2008, 08:36 PM
I like it. I believe that Hill's leadership off the bench will be excellent!

1st Unit:
c : Shaq
PF: STAT
SF: Barnes(2nd coming of Marion for this team :D)
SG: Bell
PG: Nash
2nd Unit:
C : Rolo
PF: Diaw
SF: Hill
SG: Barbosa
PG: Dragic

Yeah I completely agree. Barnes spaces the floor, is a great rebounder, slasher and shooter. Don't know if anyone else watched him during 06-07, but he averaged like 17ppg over a few months when he got decent minutes... was a gem in salary cap fantasy. IMO he's extremely underrated player.

Also agree that Hill's leadership off the bench will be important because otherwise they are too young and Barbosa could go out of control and just hog it. That second unit would be really solid.

Funbunch5
09-20-2008, 09:26 PM
in order for us to get back to our dominant form we have to have barnes start for spaceing reasons if you have 3 3pt threats it opens up the lanes for either nash to drive and dish and they wont be able to double team amare and shaq ......or if they do then we have a wide open 3 .....this is what made us so good in the past but with hilll starting they will let him shoot up 3's alll day and clog the lane....and hilll looks better with the 2nd unit because he can help control the ball and with his midrange shooting it will keep us going while nash is on the bench ...hill is a deadly midrange shooter u exspect it to go in everytime....

Exactly and we have been missing that 3rd 3-point threat since Joe Johnson left.

Nets fan 93
09-20-2008, 11:07 PM
I like it. I believe that Hill's leadership off the bench will be excellent!

1st Unit:
c : Shaq
PF: STAT
SF: Barnes(2nd coming of Marion for this team :D)
SG: Bell
PG: Nash
2nd Unit:
C : Rolo
PF: Diaw
SF: Hill
SG: Barbosa
PG: Dragic
That is an awesome bench...

JPHX
09-21-2008, 12:22 AM
im still down for grant to start. even if he just plays a couple minutes to start it out then barnes can shoulder some hefty minutes.

ptransfer
09-21-2008, 06:59 AM
i agree with KiNgSuNs1, spacing is a huge issue. Grant has only been truly productive when he's had the ball in his hands, that's why the Shaq trade hurt him the most, he saw a lot less of it. Matt however has never been a near 40% 3 point shooter, and thats concerning. Also when Hill saw less shots, he doubled his efforts defensively. That shouldn't be forgotten. If TP can work Hill in and make the offence work well, than he should start. But since i dont see that happening, and Nash, Stat and Shaq can basically create their own offence let Matt and Raja hit the open trays.

I hope they focus on allowing Goran and Hill to run the offence for the second unit. It will take pressure of Goran and Hills mid range game will bring some much needed versatility to a second unit where Leandro is the main scoring option. I actually feel that Leandro is better suited to playing in the Starting unit, if he could ever improve his defence!!!!!

amare#1
09-21-2008, 07:28 AM
i agree with KiNgSuNs1, spacing is a huge issue. Grant has only been truly productive when he's had the ball in his hands, that's why the Shaq trade hurt him the most, he saw a lot less of it. Matt however has never been a near 40% 3 point shooter, and thats concerning. Also when Hill saw less shots, he doubled his efforts defensively. That shouldn't be forgotten. If TP can work Hill in and make the offence work well, than he should start. But since i dont see that happening, and Nash, Stat and Shaq can basically create their own offence let Matt and Raja hit the open trays.

I hope they focus on allowing Goran and Hill to run the offence for the second unit. It will take pressure of Goran and Hills mid range game will bring some much needed versatility to a second unit where Leandro is the main scoring option. I actually feel that Leandro is better suited to playing in the Starting unit, if he could ever improve his defence!!!!!

I agree with basically all you said man.
In terms of Barbosa being suited to the first unit, I agree... but yeah we can't afford it because of his hopeless defense and occasional over-shooting offensive mentality.

rocky4104
09-21-2008, 09:45 AM
That is an awesome bench...

i agree

Tom81
09-21-2008, 09:54 AM
I like it. I believe that Hill's leadership off the bench will be excellent!

1st Unit:
c : Shaq
PF: STAT
SF: Barnes(2nd coming of Marion for this team :D)
SG: Bell
PG: Nash
2nd Unit:
C : Rolo
PF: Diaw
SF: Hill
SG: Barbosa
PG: Dragic

agreed

Sillysoft
09-21-2008, 11:39 AM
The bottom line is we have depth and Porter will hopefully use it. If Hill starts, then Barnes can allow the Suns to give Hill limited minutes to keep him fresh and healthy. Both can help though, Barnes can spread the floor and Hill can slash, pass and dribble. Its a good issue to have!

Silly

STAT32
09-21-2008, 07:02 PM
Why is this even a question? We all saw what happens when Hill is overplayed....

TheJason84
09-21-2008, 07:40 PM
Hi guys. Been reading this forum for quite some time now, and I want to add my 2 cents. :)

According to the 2nd link, near the bottom, the decision to start Barnes was coming from both Porter AND Hill.

Sounds to me that Hill knows his limits and is taking the right course of action.

amare#1
09-21-2008, 08:04 PM
Hi guys. Been reading this forum for quite some time now, and I want to add my 2 cents. :)

According to the 2nd link, near the bottom, the decision to start Barnes was coming from both Porter AND Hill.

Sounds to me that Hill knows his limits and is taking the right course of action.

Welcome bro. Good point.

BoltLakerPadre
09-21-2008, 09:15 PM
I think that'd be a good idea. Hill is good, but he's getting a little old. His best attribute now is his experience, so having him come off the bench, like they're talking about doing with Lamar Odom on my team, seems like a good idea. He'll provide leadership and stability to the second unit, and Barnes could flourish as Nash's third option.

chadillachembre
09-21-2008, 09:36 PM
i dont have a preference who starts. i see the 3 being a revalving door all season long and just going with the hot hand.

amare#1
09-23-2008, 06:41 AM
Found another article about the pros of this move:

http://rimshots.freedomblogging.com/2008/09/22/starting-barnes-makes-a-lot-of-sense/

Sounds like it's going to happen.

Rome
09-23-2008, 04:11 PM
Nice article amare1. Makes me feel better going into the season. Just makes more sense starting Barnes over Hill for the million reasons we've already gone over haha

hrf821
09-23-2008, 05:33 PM
What about Diaw. I just don't understand the point in having a bench player with that large of a contract who is not Ginobili. I'd start Diaw at 3. I like Barnes and I like Hill, however, Diaw performs as a starter. Play him for a couple months, get his value up and trade him. Then start Barnes. Just a thought.

Tom81
09-23-2008, 05:59 PM
What about Diaw. I just don't understand the point in having a bench player with that large of a contract who is not Ginobili. I'd start Diaw at 3. I like Barnes and I like Hill, however, Diaw performs as a starter. Play him for a couple months, get his value up and trade him. Then start Barnes. Just a thought.

not bad idea

Rome
09-23-2008, 06:14 PM
What about Diaw. I just don't understand the point in having a bench player with that large of a contract who is not Ginobili. I'd start Diaw at 3. I like Barnes and I like Hill, however, Diaw performs as a starter. Play him for a couple months, get his value up and trade him. Then start Barnes. Just a thought.

I wouldnt be against starting Diaw a few games. See if he can man up this year and show he's worth something :eyebrow:

amare#1
09-23-2008, 08:26 PM
What about Diaw. I just don't understand the point in having a bench player with that large of a contract who is not Ginobili. I'd start Diaw at 3. I like Barnes and I like Hill, however, Diaw performs as a starter. Play him for a couple months, get his value up and trade him. Then start Barnes. Just a thought.

I've always felt the same way bro. Now that we've got Barnes I don't think we need another potential starter playing at the 3, but before Barnes came I thought we should've started Diaw. When I first joined PSD I dropped this thread about it, but most people don't feel the same way.

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257349

I do think that if Diaw is going to do well in this league and live up to his contract he is going to have to harden up and become a bit more selfish.

hrf821
09-23-2008, 08:43 PM
Amare. I agree. It just p!sses me off because the dude can ball. And he can finish. And hit free throws. I posted somewhere on here before that we'll see a different Diaw this year. D'Antoni was a soft coach. He never said negative things to his players. In SSOL it says he actually thought the negative energy made them play worse. It is a basic management philosophy that constructive criticism is essential to growth and if someone can't handle it you don't want them on your team. Not just in B-Ball but in life. This is an old school coaching group. Let's hope they get in Diaw's ***** and Amare's too sometimes.

amare#1
09-23-2008, 09:05 PM
Amare. I agree. It just p!sses me off because the dude can ball. And he can finish. And hit free throws. I posted somewhere on here before that we'll see a different Diaw this year. D'Antoni was a soft coach. He never said negative things to his players. In SSOL it says he actually thought the negative energy made them play worse. It is a basic management philosophy that constructive criticism is essential to growth and if someone can't handle it you don't want them on your team. Not just in B-Ball but in life. This is an old school coaching group. Let's hope they get in Diaw's ***** and Amare's too sometimes.

Yeah man I agree. Let's hope Porter helps him get his sh-t together this season.

PhxOakFan3220
09-23-2008, 09:17 PM
hey guys im new to this website but im a huge suns fan so just thought i would introduce myself haha

but onto the topic
i think barnes should start over hill because we rly need to save hill 4 the playoffs with his leadership and his veteran presence. play him off the bench and help out the young guys.

amare#1
09-23-2008, 09:41 PM
hey guys im new to this website but im a huge suns fan so just thought i would introduce myself haha

but onto the topic
i think barnes should start over hill because we rly need to save hill 4 the playoffs with his leadership and his veteran presence. play him off the bench and help out the young guys.

I agree entirely.

PhxOakFan3220
09-23-2008, 09:44 PM
thx amare #1 im new 2 this but how do u get pics and stuff 4 ur profile and i love ur name bc im in love with amare haha (no homo) i try to base my game off his but ik i will nvr get it to his level haha ;)

amare#1
09-24-2008, 05:05 AM
thx amare #1 im new 2 this but how do u get pics and stuff 4 ur profile and i love ur name bc im in love with amare haha (no homo) i try to base my game off his but ik i will nvr get it to his level haha ;)

Haha fair enough man. You need to reach 110 posts to get a signature where you can posts pics and sh-t.

PhxOakFan3220
09-24-2008, 07:11 AM
alrite thx man :)

theimortalone
09-24-2008, 09:49 AM
Haha fair enough man. You need to reach 110 posts to get a signature where you can posts pics and sh-t.

Actually its 100 ;)

PhxOakFan3220
09-24-2008, 11:58 AM
haha thx theimortalone ;)

theimortalone
09-24-2008, 02:30 PM
haha thx theimortalone ;)

haha anytime :D

theimortalone
09-24-2008, 02:56 PM
I love how Grant Hill is such a team player!!!


“By the time training camp came, I had been going for four months and I was already mentally tired,” he said. “I have to be smart. This is a long season, and the things I did in November and December really didn’t matter much in April.

“At the end of the year, I had a long talk with (general manager) Steve Kerr and (senior vice president of operations) David Griffin, and the first thing we agreed was not to get back on the court so fast and be smart.”

That means playing less minutes, and it might mean coming off the bench behind Matt Barnes at small forward to save himself for later in the game.

“We’ve added some really good depth with people like Matt and Goran (Dragic) and Robin (Lopez), and we should all be a fresher bunch as a result,” Hill said. “I’ve started and I’m used to starting, but it doesn’t matter. What makes us the best team? What gives us the best chance?

“I want to be at my best at the end. Whatever it takes to get me there, I’m in favor of.”

Link: Grant Hill is willing to sit on the bench to stay fresh!! (http://www.nba.com/suns/news/tribune_080924.html)

amare#1
09-24-2008, 07:16 PM
Actually its 100 ;)

Pretty sure its not bro. They say between 100-110, but it took me 110. Anyway who cares its all pretty close.

theimortalone
09-25-2008, 02:34 AM
Pretty sure its not bro. They say between 100-110, but it took me 110. Anyway who cares its all pretty close.

lol true true.

In other news....I like the starting 5 of Nash...Bell...Barnes...Stat...Shaq. Very nice leaves our bench with Dragic...Lopez...Diaw...Hill...Barbs...Amundson... Singletary...Tucker...That is what you call a kick *** bench! :D

amare#1
09-25-2008, 03:44 AM
lol true true.

In other news....I like the starting 5 of Nash...Bell...Barnes...Stat...Shaq. Very nice leaves our bench with Dragic...Lopez...Diaw...Hill...Barbs...Amundson... Singletary...Tucker...That is what you call a kick *** bench! :D

Completely agree man. I think we're going to be a very solid rebounding team this season. Shaq, Amare, Barnes, Diaw, Lopez, Hill and Amundson are all solid rebounders. Barnes is actually a really good rebounder for his size... the combination of his long arms and toughness all him to rip them down.

Tom81
09-25-2008, 05:54 AM
Suns plan to limit Hill's minutes

Steve Nash won't be the only veteran the Suns hope to play fewer minutes this season.

The same approach will be taken with forward Grant Hill. The Suns hope to have Hill fit and fresh for the playoffs, and the decreased minutes will allow coach Terry Porter to use a deeper rotation and maybe start Matt Barnes in Hill's spot.

The move is not because of a theory that Hill's health problems during the 2008 playoffs resulted from his regular-season workload, an average of 31.7 minutes per game that was 0.8 more than the previous season.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2008/09/23/20080923sunshill0924.html

The Arizona Republic




nice Mr. d'antoni. good job.

certificial
09-25-2008, 09:51 AM
i cant remember who said it but someone said that barnes has played most of his minutes against second units. he actually started for a while @ golden state but he played outta position. they played a very small unit with him at the 4 and al harrington at the 5. i remember seeing that lineup against the mavs that year they 2 years ago. nevertheless he is a baller and i think he will remain productive playing alongside 3 future hall of famers. really lookin forward to the season!!!!!

PhxOakFan3220
09-25-2008, 09:54 AM
I'm glad they decided to finally lower grant hill's minutes. I think porter will really do wonders for this team. If he gets the players to believe in them, they will have a successful season.