PDA

View Full Version : CBS Sport Top 20 Center Rankings



THE NATION
09-15-2008, 11:53 AM
http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/10977659



1. Dwight Howard, Orlando: Howard still has plenty of room and time to grow as an NBA star. The Superman cape he unveiled last All-Star Weekend might not be too much of a stretch. He should start leaping tall buildings soon, eager to continue expanding his game. The Magic have no excuse if they can't build a serious contender around this inside force.

2. Yao Ming, Houston: It's time for Yao to start acting and playing like a former No. 1 pick and lead the Rockets deep into the playoffs. With both Tracy McGrady and Ron Artest alongside him, there should be no reason why Yao can't get the Rockets past any of the Western contenders.

3. Andrew Bynum, Los Angeles Lakers: After missing all the playoff fun last season, Bynum could either disrupt what the Lakers had or put them over the top. Now going into his fourth season (directly from high school), he has shown some enormous talent. His trick will be making it fit on a team that reached the NBA Finals without him.



Looks like the experts disagree with some of you PSD experts, they put Bynum at 3 and a lot of you guys couldn't even give him the 4th spot. :clap: :D :clap:

still1ballin
09-15-2008, 11:57 AM
And people said that us laker fans have no knowledge for the game!

Tblaze
09-15-2008, 12:04 PM
who cares. I don't

cuttygiantsfan
09-15-2008, 12:08 PM
still dont think you have knowledge...

great job you got one guy's opinion and do you still really think so because he has Shaq 4th??? there are a lot of guys i would take before either of them

JMan17
09-15-2008, 12:09 PM
http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/10977659



1. Dwight Howard, Orlando: Howard still has plenty of room and time to grow as an NBA star. The Superman cape he unveiled last All-Star Weekend might not be too much of a stretch. He should start leaping tall buildings soon, eager to continue expanding his game. The Magic have no excuse if they can't build a serious contender around this inside force.

2. Yao Ming, Houston: It's time for Yao to start acting and playing like a former No. 1 pick and lead the Rockets deep into the playoffs. With both Tracy McGrady and Ron Artest alongside him, there should be no reason why Yao can't get the Rockets past any of the Western contenders.

3. Andrew Bynum, Los Angeles Lakers: After missing all the playoff fun last season, Bynum could either disrupt what the Lakers had or put them over the top. Now going into his fourth season (directly from high school), he has shown some enormous talent. His trick will be making it fit on a team that reached the NBA Finals without him.



Looks like the experts disagree with some of you PSD experts, they put Bynum at 3 and a lot of you guys couldn't even give him the 4th spot. :clap: :D :clap:

that's because people will never admit how great Bynum really is, shows those haters right i say :clap:

THE NATION
09-15-2008, 12:13 PM
still dont think you have knowledge...

great job you got one guy's opinion and do you still really think so because he has Shaq 4th??? there are a lot of guys i would take before either of them

Thats why you don't get paid to pick who is better or who you would take, because it doesn't seem like you are good at it. I'll go with the guys that make a living doing this, but thanks for playing...

still1ballin
09-15-2008, 12:14 PM
pwned

still1ballin
09-15-2008, 12:15 PM
who cares. I don't

If you don't care then why even post? Better yet why even open this thread?

PhxGiant
09-15-2008, 12:27 PM
Sheed number 6? Oden shouldn't even be on this list let alone number 8, this dudes nuts.

op12
09-15-2008, 12:34 PM
i am guessing this is his prediction for this season and i respect that, but having oden ahead of so many people makes me think this guy doesnt know what he is talking about. if bynum tears it up this season i will give him props, but right now that is too high. and kaman that low is just dumb.

Bulls4Lyfe
09-15-2008, 12:39 PM
al jefferson wasn't considered a center for these rankings...bynum would be third in our ranking as well had jefferson not been included...just putting that out there

Dol-Fan
09-15-2008, 12:50 PM
It is based on his projections for the 08/09 season, not the absolute 20 best centers in the NBA at this point in time based on what they have done. If it were based on that, Greg Oden would not be on the list and Bynum would be a bit lower, still not sure why Sheed is 6 though, or O'Neal being 7th. Don't like the list even if it is his projections.

$ NyC $
09-15-2008, 12:53 PM
Will you Lakers fans not understand. Right now, due to his past play and such i don't think he deserves #3. I will admit though if Bynum continues to improve at this rate he is a guaranteed All-Star. Before he went down with his injury he was beasting getting over 20 ppg and 12 rpg. He was a monster and then got injured. Now since he was injured, we can't say if he would have kept that up or went back to his 13 ppg 10 rpg stats. Either way he has enormous potential 4 the future.

cmellofan15
09-15-2008, 12:56 PM
Bynum 3? Oden 8?
Let's put Kevin Love in the top 5 for PF's!!!!!

cuttygiantsfan
09-15-2008, 01:05 PM
Thats why you don't get paid to pick who is better or who you would take, because it doesn't seem like you are good at it. I'll go with the guys that make a living doing this, but thanks for playing...

exactly he gets paid to write what people WANT to hear

THE NATION
09-15-2008, 01:11 PM
exactly he gets paid to write what people WANT to hear
You know this because?? Whoever he is, he is way more qualified than you are in the sports world, so Ill stick with what he said...

DQL
09-15-2008, 01:19 PM
that's a dumb list. Kaman who averaged 15.7-12.7-2.8 last season is even not in top 10

Here's my own list
1. Howard
2. Yao
3. Al Jefferson (he should be qualified as C)
4. Bynum
5. Kaman
6. Shaq
7. JO
8. Camby
9. Okafor
10. Chandler
11. Rasheed Wallace
12. Dalembert
13. Horford
14. Ilgauskas
15. Bogut
16. Miller
17. Briedrins
18. Okur
19. Haywood
20. Ben Wallace

IndyRealist
09-15-2008, 01:51 PM
Statistical analysis of the top 15 Centers in the NBA last year, based on "Wins Produced". The formula is somewhat arcane, but the gist is that if you total the Wins Produced for each player on the team, then you roughly get how many games the team won that year, so it seems a relatively accurate measure of player performance. David Berri, the author, does statistical analysis of sports teams, and writes for the New York Times.

http://www.wagesofwins.com/15C0708.html

His blog, along with NBA and NFL analysis, can be found here:
http://dberri.wordpress.com/

Nighthawk
09-15-2008, 02:53 PM
So some guy on a website lists Bynum as 3 and were haters. I think this guy is doing what all Laker fans are doing. Basing there opinions on potential and a teeny tiny sample size. Like i've said i wanna see what he can do for a full season before i say hes a top 5 center. Ill have no problem saying hes the BEST center in the league if he plays like it. I just want a full season. Any NBA player can go on a streak for a certain amount of games. I want consistent production for a full year. And then ill start giving respect and credit where its due.

THE NATION
09-15-2008, 02:56 PM
So some guy on a website lists Bynum as 3 and were haters. I think this guy is doing what all Laker fans are doing. Basing there opinions on potential and a teeny tiny sample size. Like i've said i wanna see what he can do for a full season before i say hes a top 5 center. Ill have no problem saying hes the BEST center in the league if he plays like it. I just want a full season. Any NBA can go on a streak for a certain amount of games. I want consistent production for a full year. And then ill start giving respect and credit where its due.

Some people on PSD didn't think Bynum was top 4, Im just saying Laker fans had a valid argument based on what some other sports writer thinks. He is more qualified to put a list together than any of us.

knicks1214
09-15-2008, 03:16 PM
But he is still basing it on predictions for the 08-09 season. That's why Oden is also that high on the list. RIGHT NOW, we don't know what's going to happen. That's why so many people were skeptical, including me, about putting Bynum 4th (although I would have said OK to 5). He did get hurt last year...but his numbers were solid.

Famous03
09-15-2008, 03:18 PM
Come on but a 20 year old that Avgs 15/11/2 just has Nasty upside. And dont be surpised if Bynum over takes Howard for best Center in the League in a year or two.

knicks1214
09-15-2008, 03:19 PM
Bynum isn't going to be 1 as long as Howard is in the league and is able to stay healthy...I will give him 2 but not best center in the NBA...

Sixerlover
09-15-2008, 03:19 PM
These are projections, not rankings. They are projecting him to be 3rd best next year, because if it was rankings why the hell would Oden be over Kaman?

Dol-Fan
09-15-2008, 03:20 PM
Come on but a 20 year old that Avgs 15/11/2 just has Nasty upside. And dont be surpised if Bynum over takes Howard for best Center in the League in a year or two.

13-10-2 thanks for checking the stats though.

bogdanrom
09-15-2008, 03:30 PM
I just want to point out "Here are the top 20 centers in the NBA, based on players' projected impact on the 2008-09 season:"

Nighthawk
09-15-2008, 03:37 PM
Some people on PSD didn't think Bynum was top 4, Im just saying Laker fans had a valid argument based on what some other sports writer thinks. He is more qualified to put a list together than any of us.

He listed projections


I was one of the many that didnt think Bynum deserved the 4 spot. Why should he. Theres other Centers that played the whole season. Until Bynum plays a whole season i cant really make an argument for him to be top 4.

cuttygiantsfan
09-15-2008, 03:39 PM
You know this because?? Whoever he is, he is way more qualified than you are in the sports world, so Ill stick with what he said...

highly doubting that

NYKnickFanatic
09-15-2008, 03:40 PM
Bynum does not deserve the #4 spot IMO, no one will change my mind.

LAKERS 24/7
09-15-2008, 03:48 PM
13-10-2 thanks for checking the stats though.

He was talking about his numbers as a starter, which more accurately describe his production.

07MVPPatBurrell
09-15-2008, 03:50 PM
how sad that there are only 2 legitiment centers in the league

Dol-Fan
09-15-2008, 03:53 PM
He was talking about his numbers as a starter, which more accurately describe his production.

It's impossible to "accurately describe" a player's production in 35 games, 25 started.

Based on that mindset, Andrea Bargnani would average 21-5-5, since every time he gets over 30 minutes he gets numbers like that. Fact is, that's only a small sample and it's impossible to judge a player based on such a small sample.

Mr.ATLHawks
09-15-2008, 03:59 PM
There is a total lack of talent at the center position. The days of Shaq, The Dream, Ewing, Duncan and so forth have come and pass...

Your #1 center has absolutely no post up game, dominates on defense but as shown in the Olympics, cant score to save his life it its not a dunk. Even after 4-5 seasons Shaq showed alot more development then that. I believe Howard never will live up to his offensive potential and whater P. Ewing is teaching him isnt working.

You can argue Yao Ming should be number one but he is completely the opposite of Howard. Tons of offensive skills but is a defensive liability with his lack of athleticism and no vertical.

Andrew Bynum is still very raw, does he deserve to be on this list, maybe, but until he shows me he can do more then catch a alley op from Kobe Bryant I am not impressed. For a guy to come in the league and say he is Shaq but can shoot free thows he sure hasnt lived up to anything the 3-4 years he's been in the league.

Im not going to argue with anybody's list but the overall list is weak, and these guys are taking entirely too long to develop. It seems like these guys can do one thing or the other...its sad to see

Chronz
09-15-2008, 03:59 PM
Like Ive been saying, Sheed is a C and one of the best defenders in the league. Its not a shock to see him above Kaman, and Bynum is very much in that class. After the top 2, the 3-9 spots can go to anyone.

G-Funk
09-15-2008, 05:03 PM
Will you Lakers fans not understand. Right now, due to his past play and such i don't think he deserves #3. I will admit though if Bynum continues to improve at this rate he is a guaranteed All-Star. Before he went down with his injury he was beasting getting over 20 ppg and 12 rpg. He was a monster and then got injured. Now since he was injured, we can't say if he would have kept that up or went back to his 13 ppg 10 rpg stats. Either way he has enormous potential 4 the future.


I Think that Lakers fans agree with this.

ShaunRiching9
09-15-2008, 05:21 PM
sure he has bynum at #3 but he also has Oden at #8 when the guy hasnty even played an Nba game yet and Al Jefferson isnt even on the list so How much do you think this guys Knows about the Nba?

Lakersfan2483
09-15-2008, 05:21 PM
http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/10977659



1. Dwight Howard, Orlando: Howard still has plenty of room and time to grow as an NBA star. The Superman cape he unveiled last All-Star Weekend might not be too much of a stretch. He should start leaping tall buildings soon, eager to continue expanding his game. The Magic have no excuse if they can't build a serious contender around this inside force.

2. Yao Ming, Houston: It's time for Yao to start acting and playing like a former No. 1 pick and lead the Rockets deep into the playoffs. With both Tracy McGrady and Ron Artest alongside him, there should be no reason why Yao can't get the Rockets past any of the Western contenders.

3. Andrew Bynum, Los Angeles Lakers: After missing all the playoff fun last season, Bynum could either disrupt what the Lakers had or put them over the top. Now going into his fourth season (directly from high school), he has shown some enormous talent. His trick will be making it fit on a team that reached the NBA Finals without him.



Looks like the experts disagree with some of you PSD experts, they put Bynum at 3 and a lot of you guys couldn't even give him the 4th spot. :clap: :D :clap:

Great thread. I am glad to see someone knows about basketball around here. People make these ignorant statements about Bynum, but have never seen him play. I think Bynum is a top 5 center. I have him at no. 4 on my list. Bynum has a great touch around the rim, has a solid post up game, is a good rebounder and is a presence on the defensive end.

Lakersfan2483
09-15-2008, 05:25 PM
Like Ive been saying, Sheed is a C and one of the best defenders in the league. Its not a shock to see him above Kaman, and Bynum is very much in that class. After the top 2, the 3-9 spots can go to anyone.

Agree, not too many players are locked after D. Howard and Yao Ming. I don't really see Al Jefferson as a center.

showtym24
09-15-2008, 06:03 PM
Bynum is top 3 without a doubt the haters will disagree, but he is and they know he is.

stevefrancis
09-15-2008, 06:21 PM
if andrew bynum can be number 3 for missing half the season then yao should be number one. with that said i'll put amare number one before anyone even though he might be a power foward he played center most of his career like duncan and dwight howard would suck withough his atheticism.

rhino17
09-15-2008, 06:25 PM
bynum at #3 is a total joke along with Shaq #4 and Cmaby #5

and Greg Oden being in the top 10 or even 15 is laughable

Westbrook36
09-15-2008, 06:26 PM
Bynum is top 3 without a doubt the haters will disagree, but he is and they know he is.

When he can play a Season it could be his, But It Def shouldnt be it right now, He played what 30 Games? Give me a break

Lost Art
09-15-2008, 06:42 PM
People just don't know about Bynum, they didn't watch enough Lakers games last season. Honestly, if he was that much of a chump would the Lakers even be talking to him about a Max salary deal? Would they have turned down numerous trades for proven allstars? Would they be banking the future of the franchise on him? Of course not. The kid is the real deal and the rest of you guys are going to find this out this season. I've been saying it all along, Andrew Bynum is the Lakers second best player and the third best C in the league. Mark it down.

FortyDubs
09-15-2008, 07:07 PM
I love how everyone is automatically labeled a "hater" if they don't see eye to eye with Lakers fans. It's amusing. Bynum very well could boast #3 stats at his position this year, I don't see many people disagreeing with that.

Westbrook36
09-15-2008, 07:08 PM
People just don't know about Bynum, they didn't watch enough Lakers games last season. Honestly, if he was that much of a chump would the Lakers even be talking to him about a Max salary deal? Would they have turned down numerous trades for proven allstars? Would they be banking the future of the franchise on him? Of course not. The kid is the real deal and the rest of you guys are going to find this out this season. I've been saying it all along, Andrew Bynum is the Lakers second best player and the third best C in the league. Mark it down.

I would of watched Bynum more but he only played 30 Games, Hes not the third best center in the League, He played 30 Games last season and his other seasons were tottally scrub. The reason the Lakers wont trade him is because hes only 22/23 He still has time to grow but to name him the third best Center after 30 Games is utterly Stupid, If hes a top center in the League then we can take any players 30 Games Straight and call them the best player.

23LBJCleBrowns
09-15-2008, 07:16 PM
bynum is overrated

THE NATION
09-15-2008, 07:21 PM
bynum is overrated

So are the Browns..

Lost Art
09-15-2008, 07:36 PM
I would of watched Bynum more but he only played 30 Games, Hes not the third best center in the League, He played 30 Games last season and his other seasons were tottally scrub. The reason the Lakers wont trade him is because hes only 22/23 He still has time to grow but to name him the third best Center after 30 Games is utterly Stupid, If hes a top center in the League then we can take any players 30 Games Straight and call them the best player.

Actually he's only 20 years old (he turns 21 later this month) and he played as efficiently as any big in the league in the last month and a half before he got injured. And the reason he was a "scrub" in his first two seasons is because Phil Jackson is notorious for not playing youngsters and he didn't see the light of day until last season.............although in the limited minutes he did play, you could tell that he had something special. And in the month and a half that he got appropriate minutes and touches he was averaging 17 points 12 boards 3 assists and 2.5 blocks per game on 70% FG while intimidating the hell out of anyone who brought the ball in the lane. Not to mention that he's 7'1" with a ridiculous 7'3" wingspan (Yao = 7'4" for reference), nice touch, unbelievable hands, and a ton of athleticism. He's a game changer, a guy that can dominate on both ends. Trust me, you're going to be eating your own words in a big way by the end of this season. Book it!

THE NATION
09-15-2008, 07:40 PM
Actually he's only 20 years old (he turns 21 later this month) and he played as efficiently as any big in the league in the last month and a half before he got injured. And the reason he was a "scrub" in his first two seasons is because Phil Jackson is notorious for not playing youngsters and he didn't see the light of day until last season.............although in the limited minutes he did play, you could tell that he had something special. And in the month and a half that he got appropriate minutes and touches he was averaging 17 points 12 boards 3 assists and 2.5 blocks per game on 70% FG while intimidating the hell out of anyone who brought the ball in the lane. Not to mention that he's 7'1" with a ridiculous 7'3" wingspan, nice touch, unbelievable hands, and a ton of athleticism. He's a game changer, a guy that can dominate on both ends. Trust me, you're going to be eating your own words in a big way by the end of this season. Book it!

End of October.

Lost Art
09-15-2008, 07:44 PM
End of October.

Oh yeah, why did I think it was October???? :confused:

Cavs_Fan24
09-15-2008, 07:47 PM
i dont care. the only people that think Bynum is a top 5 center are Laker fans, and the idiot that wrote this article.

THE NATION
09-15-2008, 07:47 PM
Oh yeah, why did I think it was October???? :confused:

Because you cant wait for Bynum to dominate the NBA. I can't wait, training camp opens in 2 weeks. Did you read where Luke said Bynum looks 100% in 5 on 5 pick up games? Im glad he is back and in great shape.

Lost Art
09-15-2008, 07:48 PM
i dont care. the only people that think Bynum is a top 5 center are Laker fans, and the idiot that wrote this article.

.........and probably every other sports writer ranking the top Centers nowadays ;)

THE NATION
09-15-2008, 07:49 PM
i dont care. the only people that think Bynum is a top 5 center are Laker fans, and the idiot that wrote this article.

And you are the only person that thinks the Cavs are going to win the championship next year. You don't even have an idiot writer backing you up..

ARMIN12NBA
09-15-2008, 07:58 PM
i dont care. the only people that think Bynum is a top 5 center are Laker fans, and the idiot that wrote this article.

And other sports websites as well as shows...

THE NATION
09-15-2008, 08:04 PM
FROM L4L on another forum:

Andrew Bynum... What many people don't realize is that this kid actually has a quality skill set in the post, when compared to other similar Cs, that shows potential to get better. The Lakers: 1) have trouble getting inside against a zone, 2) did not get Bynum enough touches in the post and every Laker fan noticed this throughout the beginning of the season. Only in the later parts of '07 and early '08 did we finally establish him as the second option instead of running everything through Kobe and he delivered with an 16-17 point average over the course of those ten or so games.

56% of Bynum's shots were assisted on 63.6% shooting. 31% of those shots were dunks and 66% of those dunks were assisted. Basically, about 1/5 of his shots were assisted alley-oops or dunks inside. Many people like to claim that his entire scoring out-put came from looks created by Bryant specifically the alley-oop plays. I've heard many a "fan" say, "All Bynum can do is dunk."

These same people don't account for the fact that Dwight Howard has a HIGHER % of his shots (21%) as assisted dunks. In fact, Dwight averages 9.45 shots a game that aren't dunks. Dwight shoots 47.3% on these shots (24.8% on jump shots and 53.1% on non-dunk inside shots). Bynum, by the same token, takes 5.8 FGAs a game that are not dunks. He's shooting 49.4% on these shots (36.2% on jump shots and 54.9% on non-dunk inside shots). To give an example of a player who is renowned for his post game, Duncan takes 14.1 shots that are not dunks and is shooting 48.4% on these shots this season (37.9% on jumpers and 63.7% on inside shots). My point being, if you're going to criticize Bynum for his ability to create shots you better be criticizing Dwight Howard as well. When comparatively looking at a guy like Duncan, both have pre-school post games. If you're going to say that Bynum can't be a franchise player because of his offensive skill set, I want to hear you say that about Dwight too because it is evident that Bynum could put up very similar numbers given more minutes and more touches(you know, like, on almost every post play a la Dwight). It is commonly accepted knowledge that Dwight is an elite center and an elite player. If Bynum is in the same realm, he is elite as well.

Bynum was getting 8.5 attempts per game. How many of you would consider 20 points on 50%+ shooting elite for a low post player? If the Lakers gave Bynum about 17.5 shots a game, he'd only have to go 3.5/9, on average, on those extra shots in addition to those that he was currently getting to be above 20 points on 50% shooting. That is 38.8% on those extra shots when he was shooting 49.4% on non-dunks as it was. Bynum was shooting 36.2% on jumpers. That's ALMOST the level of shooting he would need, on those 9 shots, to reach 20+ on 50%. What I'm saying is, even if Bynum sat there and took 10-13 foot jumpers, let alone getting nine extra post feeds, while actually getting some FGAs, he'd be damn near 20PPG on near 50% shooting and everyone would be fawning over his offensive prowess. However, because he limited his attempts to strictly high % looks by playing within the offense, was getting extremely limited touches because Kobe's usage was very high early on, and because Phil restricted his minutes to "bring him along", which he didn't need after 10-15 games, his offensive numbers are just "13/10".

Despite those seemingly pedestrian numbers, a large amount of people around the league were clamoring about this kid's game. Why is that? It's because of the impact. It's because those numbers were produced in limited minutes, with limited touches, and because he was converting when he was given opportunities.

Granted, Dwight and Duncan face a higher amount of double teams which skews the stats in a negative light for those players(Orlando surrounds him with 3 point shooters to limit this as much as possible). Despite that obvious fact, Bynum has actually shown the natural ability to pass out of these situations prompting Tex Winters to call him "the Lakers' best passing big man" (pre-Gasol). He's got an extremely high IQ for a ball player as evidenced by his grades in school and his ability, and hobby, of MAKING COMPUTERS in his spare time (I kid you not). Even so, his FG% is so high that he has plenty of room for it to drop as I demonstrated above when talking about his lack of FGA.

In addition, teams can't simply foul Bynum every single time he touches the ball because of his free throw line stroke which was well above 70% in HS and was near 70% this year in the NBA.

Then you get to the guys who are talking about how Bynum was "only" getting 10 rebounds. What people don't seem to realize is that he was grabbing 19.5% of the total rebounds available while playing next to Lamar Odom who has been a VERY good rebounder(15.4% of total rebounds available grabbed). Then you have a guy like Dwight Howard who grabs 14.5 rebounds a game which is a great number, but when you look at the total % of rebounds grabbed, it's 21.9%. That's tops in the league by a full percentage. However, there are only 6 guys ahead of Bynum in this category: Joel Pryzbilla, Marcus Camby, Tim Duncan, Dwight Howard, Tyson Chandler, and Tim Duncan. Outside of Duncan, most of those guys see limited to zero time next to a rebounder as good as better than Lamar Odom. No matter how much credence you grant to the LO presence argument, Bynum is a top 8 rebounder by the numbers in the time he did play.

It's pretty clear to anyone who watched Bynum in the early part of the season that are only three things holding him back from becoming a prominent player in this league(already, even without a polished offensive game): 1) Conditioning, 2) Phil Jackson, 3) Minutes and all three were interrelated. Phil doesn't, generally, trust young players and he was bringing Bynum along slowly to protect him. Many Laker fans would argue this was unnecessary after the first few games. As far as conditioning goes, Bynum has increased his minutes every single year and did every month this year besides January which is skewed because of his injury in the Memphis game(as well as too small of a sample). There should be NO DOUBT that Bynum's conditioning is a temporary issue. For one, he was only picking up 3.5 fouls per 36 minutes which is only 0.3 more than Howard. Secondly, and most importantly, he stashed himself away in Atlanta this summer and worked out FIVE hours a day on strength and conditioning with a personal trainer. His dedication is evident and apparent. Conditioning will be a problem of the past soon enough.

Defensively, Bynum held opposing Cs to 42.1 eFG% on the season. That is #1 in the ENTIRE NBA. In terms of blocked shots, Andrew swatted a shot on 5.1% of all possessions. That is 7th in the NBA among players who played at least 20mpg. He's got the best man defense numbers in the entire NBA AND he's top 10 in helpside blocks? That's the makings of an incredibly solid defender. Yes, he does have problems on the PnR, but so does Dwight Howard. Again, no one cites that as a reason Dwight isn't elite.

NO ONE would questions whether or not Howard is an elite player.


1. Bynum is 7'1" and 290lbs. Dwight Howard is 6'10" at 240lbs. Howard has a 36 inch vertical. Bynum has a 32 inch vertical. Both have freakish wing spans. The physical tools ARE, again ARE, comparable.
2. Bynum out-produced his opponets by 10.4 PER per 48 minutes. Howard out-produced his by 11.2 PER per 48 minutes. Again, HIGHLY comparable.
3. When Bynum matched up against Howard this year, in the minutes they played together, Bynum had 8 points, 4/5 shooting, 5 rebounds, and 4 blocks while Howard had 8 points, 2/5 shooting, 3 rebounds, and 1 block. HIGHLY comparable.
4. Bynum placed top 10 in both numbers reflecting man defense AND help defense.
5. Bynum placed 14th among ALL PLAYERS in PER (82games.com version). He was fourth among all Cs (Howard, Ming, Jefferson -- none beat him by more than 0.5 PER points). In terms of NET PER (player PER - opponent PER), Bynum was 12th among ALL PLAYERS and third among Cs.


Everyone considers Dwight an elite player. Bynum is highly comparable and on a similar level. Everyone considers top 20 players elite. Everyone considers players who are top 3 or 4 at their position elite. Bynum has a strong case to belong in both of the aforementioned groups. If we consider all these other players elite, why not Bynum?

The evidence says: one scoop Bynum one scoop minutes, blend, and you have an elite player in this league.

knicks1214
09-15-2008, 08:08 PM
The post above mine is a good one but PER doesn't mean anything. PER showed that Landry was a better PF than David West. BTW Howard weighs 265 according to NBA.com. I am a fan of Bynum though so don't distort what I said about PER and make it seem like I'm against him.

dre1990
09-15-2008, 08:14 PM
very bad list

ARMIN12NBA
09-15-2008, 08:22 PM
FROM L4L on another forum:

Andrew Bynum... What many people don't realize is that this kid actually has a quality skill set in the post, when compared to other similar Cs, that shows potential to get better. The Lakers: 1) have trouble getting inside against a zone, 2) did not get Bynum enough touches in the post and every Laker fan noticed this throughout the beginning of the season. Only in the later parts of '07 and early '08 did we finally establish him as the second option instead of running everything through Kobe and he delivered with an 16-17 point average over the course of those ten or so games.

56% of Bynum's shots were assisted on 63.6% shooting. 31% of those shots were dunks and 66% of those dunks were assisted. Basically, about 1/5 of his shots were assisted alley-oops or dunks inside. Many people like to claim that his entire scoring out-put came from looks created by Bryant specifically the alley-oop plays. I've heard many a "fan" say, "All Bynum can do is dunk."

These same people don't account for the fact that Dwight Howard has a HIGHER % of his shots (21%) as assisted dunks. In fact, Dwight averages 9.45 shots a game that aren't dunks. Dwight shoots 47.3% on these shots (24.8% on jump shots and 53.1% on non-dunk inside shots). Bynum, by the same token, takes 5.8 FGAs a game that are not dunks. He's shooting 49.4% on these shots (36.2% on jump shots and 54.9% on non-dunk inside shots). To give an example of a player who is renowned for his post game, Duncan takes 14.1 shots that are not dunks and is shooting 48.4% on these shots this season (37.9% on jumpers and 63.7% on inside shots). My point being, if you're going to criticize Bynum for his ability to create shots you better be criticizing Dwight Howard as well. When comparatively looking at a guy like Duncan, both have pre-school post games. If you're going to say that Bynum can't be a franchise player because of his offensive skill set, I want to hear you say that about Dwight too because it is evident that Bynum could put up very similar numbers given more minutes and more touches(you know, like, on almost every post play a la Dwight). It is commonly accepted knowledge that Dwight is an elite center and an elite player. If Bynum is in the same realm, he is elite as well.

Bynum was getting 8.5 attempts per game. How many of you would consider 20 points on 50%+ shooting elite for a low post player? If the Lakers gave Bynum about 17.5 shots a game, he'd only have to go 3.5/9, on average, on those extra shots in addition to those that he was currently getting to be above 20 points on 50% shooting. That is 38.8% on those extra shots when he was shooting 49.4% on non-dunks as it was. Bynum was shooting 36.2% on jumpers. That's ALMOST the level of shooting he would need, on those 9 shots, to reach 20+ on 50%. What I'm saying is, even if Bynum sat there and took 10-13 foot jumpers, let alone getting nine extra post feeds, while actually getting some FGAs, he'd be damn near 20PPG on near 50% shooting and everyone would be fawning over his offensive prowess. However, because he limited his attempts to strictly high % looks by playing within the offense, was getting extremely limited touches because Kobe's usage was very high early on, and because Phil restricted his minutes to "bring him along", which he didn't need after 10-15 games, his offensive numbers are just "13/10".

Despite those seemingly pedestrian numbers, a large amount of people around the league were clamoring about this kid's game. Why is that? It's because of the impact. It's because those numbers were produced in limited minutes, with limited touches, and because he was converting when he was given opportunities.

Granted, Dwight and Duncan face a higher amount of double teams which skews the stats in a negative light for those players(Orlando surrounds him with 3 point shooters to limit this as much as possible). Despite that obvious fact, Bynum has actually shown the natural ability to pass out of these situations prompting Tex Winters to call him "the Lakers' best passing big man" (pre-Gasol). He's got an extremely high IQ for a ball player as evidenced by his grades in school and his ability, and hobby, of MAKING COMPUTERS in his spare time (I kid you not). Even so, his FG% is so high that he has plenty of room for it to drop as I demonstrated above when talking about his lack of FGA.

In addition, teams can't simply foul Bynum every single time he touches the ball because of his free throw line stroke which was well above 70% in HS and was near 70% this year in the NBA.

Then you get to the guys who are talking about how Bynum was "only" getting 10 rebounds. What people don't seem to realize is that he was grabbing 19.5% of the total rebounds available while playing next to Lamar Odom who has been a VERY good rebounder(15.4% of total rebounds available grabbed). Then you have a guy like Dwight Howard who grabs 14.5 rebounds a game which is a great number, but when you look at the total % of rebounds grabbed, it's 21.9%. That's tops in the league by a full percentage. However, there are only 6 guys ahead of Bynum in this category: Joel Pryzbilla, Marcus Camby, Tim Duncan, Dwight Howard, Tyson Chandler, and Tim Duncan. Outside of Duncan, most of those guys see limited to zero time next to a rebounder as good as better than Lamar Odom. No matter how much credence you grant to the LO presence argument, Bynum is a top 8 rebounder by the numbers in the time he did play.

It's pretty clear to anyone who watched Bynum in the early part of the season that are only three things holding him back from becoming a prominent player in this league(already, even without a polished offensive game): 1) Conditioning, 2) Phil Jackson, 3) Minutes and all three were interrelated. Phil doesn't, generally, trust young players and he was bringing Bynum along slowly to protect him. Many Laker fans would argue this was unnecessary after the first few games. As far as conditioning goes, Bynum has increased his minutes every single year and did every month this year besides January which is skewed because of his injury in the Memphis game(as well as too small of a sample). There should be NO DOUBT that Bynum's conditioning is a temporary issue. For one, he was only picking up 3.5 fouls per 36 minutes which is only 0.3 more than Howard. Secondly, and most importantly, he stashed himself away in Atlanta this summer and worked out FIVE hours a day on strength and conditioning with a personal trainer. His dedication is evident and apparent. Conditioning will be a problem of the past soon enough.

Defensively, Bynum held opposing Cs to 42.1 eFG% on the season. That is #1 in the ENTIRE NBA. In terms of blocked shots, Andrew swatted a shot on 5.1% of all possessions. That is 7th in the NBA among players who played at least 20mpg. He's got the best man defense numbers in the entire NBA AND he's top 10 in helpside blocks? That's the makings of an incredibly solid defender. Yes, he does have problems on the PnR, but so does Dwight Howard. Again, no one cites that as a reason Dwight isn't elite.

NO ONE would questions whether or not Howard is an elite player.


1. Bynum is 7'1" and 290lbs. Dwight Howard is 6'10" at 240lbs. Howard has a 36 inch vertical. Bynum has a 32 inch vertical. Both have freakish wing spans. The physical tools ARE, again ARE, comparable.
2. Bynum out-produced his opponets by 10.4 PER per 48 minutes. Howard out-produced his by 11.2 PER per 48 minutes. Again, HIGHLY comparable.
3. When Bynum matched up against Howard this year, in the minutes they played together, Bynum had 8 points, 4/5 shooting, 5 rebounds, and 4 blocks while Howard had 8 points, 2/5 shooting, 3 rebounds, and 1 block. HIGHLY comparable.
4. Bynum placed top 10 in both numbers reflecting man defense AND help defense.
5. Bynum placed 14th among ALL PLAYERS in PER (82games.com version). He was fourth among all Cs (Howard, Ming, Jefferson -- none beat him by more than 0.5 PER points). In terms of NET PER (player PER - opponent PER), Bynum was 12th among ALL PLAYERS and third among Cs.


Everyone considers Dwight an elite player. Bynum is highly comparable and on a similar level. Everyone considers top 20 players elite. Everyone considers players who are top 3 or 4 at their position elite. Bynum has a strong case to belong in both of the aforementioned groups. If we consider all these other players elite, why not Bynum?

The evidence says: one scoop Bynum one scoop minutes, blend, and you have an elite player in this league.

:clap:

G-Funk
09-15-2008, 08:23 PM
still dont think you have knowledge...

great job you got one guy's opinion and do you still really think so because he has Shaq 4th??? there are a lot of guys i would take before either of them

Lakers fans are some of the most knowledgeable fans in the NBA. I Know so many people from ages 50-17 who will come here and teach you a couple of things about the NBA. Im not saying that we don't got some idiots but then again every team does.

stevefrancis
09-15-2008, 08:50 PM
if sayin bynum is goin to average 15 and 12 this year without a problem is like me sayin yao and tmac will play all 82 games and ron artest won't be a problem. dont get me wrong bynum is good and is going to be a great player i think better than dwight howard because he has an offensive game but can he do that without kobe on his team which makes it easier for him? just wait until he plays a few games and then brag that he is good just like the lakers are doing waiting to see if he is healthy and good they didn't give him that max deal yet.

Westbrook36
09-15-2008, 08:52 PM
Actually he's only 20 years old (he turns 21 later this month) and he played as efficiently as any big in the league in the last month and a half before he got injured. And the reason he was a "scrub" in his first two seasons is because Phil Jackson is notorious for not playing youngsters and he didn't see the light of day until last season.............although in the limited minutes he did play, you could tell that he had something special. And in the month and a half that he got appropriate minutes and touches he was averaging 17 points 12 boards 3 assists and 2.5 blocks per game on 70% FG while intimidating the hell out of anyone who brought the ball in the lane. Not to mention that he's 7'1" with a ridiculous 7'3" wingspan (Yao = 7'4" for reference), nice touch, unbelievable hands, and a ton of athleticism. He's a game changer, a guy that can dominate on both ends. Trust me, you're going to be eating your own words in a big way by the end of this season. Book it!

I cant eat anything because you wont prove anything on me, Save what I said, All Im saying is that to deem him the Third Best C after 30 games is STUPID. I dont think we can deem him in the top 5 untill he actually dose it for a full season

ShaunRiching9
09-15-2008, 09:15 PM
Who ever wrote this is Obviously a Laker fan because you laker fans are soo stubborn u dont listen to what anyone has to say just because the guy has 1 good season he is top 3 center? pfft if someone tried to say Lebron is better then Kobe u would guys would flip a biscuit and if someone like Al jefferson Signed and they lost Bynum all of a sudden Al Jeff would be the 3rd best center, i dont think you pick a player for how good he is i think you pick him cause he plays for the Lakers

23LBJCleBrowns
09-15-2008, 09:16 PM
big Z should be higher

$ NyC $
09-15-2008, 09:21 PM
I would take Camby right now over Bynum any day. Bynum and Kaman right now are about at the same level. With Kaman even being a little better. Potential wise he could be one of the best but right now he's good...but not great.

Beno7500
09-15-2008, 09:36 PM
Bynum at 3 is absurd.

Beno7500
09-15-2008, 09:37 PM
I also find it absurd to rank rookies. They have never played a game yet.

crew158
09-15-2008, 09:57 PM
Finally, someone with some sense.

lakersrock
09-15-2008, 10:03 PM
Bynum clearly showed his future of dominating last year and he's overrated? Why not talk about Gimpy Oden who hasn't even played being at 8 ahead of Okafor, Tyson, Kaman, Sammy, Bogut and Horford? Last time I checked, they've at least played A game.

lakersrock
09-15-2008, 10:05 PM
Who ever wrote this is Obviously a Laker fan because you laker fans are soo stubborn u dont listen to what anyone has to say just because the guy has 1 good season he is top 3 center? pfft if someone tried to say Lebron is better then Kobe u would guys would flip a biscuit and if someone like Al jefferson Signed and they lost Bynum all of a sudden Al Jeff would be the 3rd best center, i dont think you pick a player for how good he is i think you pick him cause he plays for the Lakers

Give it up. Kobe is the better shooter and on the ball defender on the wing. Say what you want, but in terms of basketball skills, Kobe is clearly better. Do they have Bynum overrated? Possibly. Could he continue dominating like he did last year? More than likely.


big Z should be higher

You meant to say lower right?

Beno7500
09-15-2008, 10:08 PM
I think he means higher in the numbers. He thinkks he should be rated #20

Lost Art
09-16-2008, 12:40 AM
I would take Camby right now over Bynum any day. Bynum and Kaman right now are about at the same level. With Kaman even being a little better. Potential wise he could be one of the best but right now he's good...but not great.

That's why Denver just traded Camby for a bag of chips and a soda? Please :no:

Chronz
09-16-2008, 02:02 AM
The post above mine is a good one but PER doesn't mean anything. PER showed that Landry was a better PF than David West. BTW Howard weighs 265 according to NBA.com. I am a fan of Bynum though so don't distort what I said about PER and make it seem like I'm against him.
PER has its purposes, its just you dont know how to break it down, as such you make fugly assumptions about what its revealing.

AllTheWay
09-16-2008, 02:29 AM
Bynum at 3 is absurd.

Yet you only say that because your a kings fan

BarryIsInnocent
09-16-2008, 02:34 AM
That is a joke. Oden hasnt even played a minute and hes on the list. and bynum at #3? he is not even the 3rd best in the west!!HAAHAHA

LAKERMANIA
09-16-2008, 03:19 AM
13-10-2 thanks for checking the stats though.

in 28 minutes.

DenButsu
09-16-2008, 07:29 AM
I can totally understand why Nene's not on that list at all, since he was out the entire season, but I'll go ahead and go out on a limb and say he'll be top 10, if not top 5, by season's end. All he needs to do is stay healthy - yeah, I know he's not so good at doing that. But if he can keep his level of conditioning high and stay injury free, all the pieces are there, and he will be called upon to step up his game bigtime for Denver this season with Camby out of the picture.

ShaunRiching9
09-16-2008, 07:50 AM
Give it up. Kobe is the better shooter and on the ball defender on the wing. Say what you want, but in terms of basketball skills, Kobe is clearly better. Do they have Bynum overrated? Possibly. Could he continue dominating like he did last year? More than likely.



You meant to say lower right?

This is Exactly my point

Vidball
09-16-2008, 01:02 PM
http://nba.fanhouse.com/2008/09/15/nba-top-50-andrew-bynum-no-24/#cont


If Andrew Bynum is real, you're looking at the only lizard in the league who can crash the Dwight Howard-Greg Oden party of Best Beasts of Tomorrow.

Before February's cruel injury, Bynum lit the galaxy ablaze. The numbers were unspeakable for a 20-year-old: a double-double with two blocks in less than 30 minutes of work. If he's still learning the game and finding his body, the rest of the league is in immense trouble.

Again: what Bynum did last season in 35 games ... no one saw that coming so quickly. Look how his age-20 season compares to these recent young behemoths at the same age. (see chart)

So, at age 20, Bynum was a better scorer, rebounder and shotblocker than every notable recent big man who was in the league by age 20 ... including Dwight Freaking Howard. And it can be argued Bynum's body was behind Howard and Jefferson at this point -- both those fellows came into the lig built like oxen. Bynum had baby fat and intsy calves last October when he started this mess.

No matter if Lamar Odom, Trevor Ariza, Luke Walton or Vlad Radmanovic start the small forward, Bynum combines with Pau Gasol to create one of the best rebounding lines in the NBA. All those problems competing on the glass against Boston? Gone, just because of Bynum's presence (and its bump of Gasol to his natural PF position). L.A. didn't need scoring help, and Bynum probably won't feature heavily in the offense, barring an injury to Kobe or Gasol. But the chances he gets, he'll convert. And the team certainly should look for him: he won't embarrass himself, with smart moves and a good mind to both protect the ball and find options when the interior gates close.

He's already L.A.'s best defender in the paint. Gasol's too slight, as we learned in June. Odom, while active, has neither the size nor the intuition to hold someone like David West or Tyson Chandler at bay. Bynum may not incite mirages of Bill Russell, but he's a stout, insistent player too proud to let himself be played a doll.

There's a chance Bynum went over his head in the first half of '07-08. There's a chance the injury has set him back a year and he won't keep improving right away. There's a chance Bynum was a breeze of excellence lone gone, replaced by a snake-bitten young curse, pricking Kobe's side is way far more innocent than Shaq did. As a fan of a division rival which thinks itself to be on an upswing, I desperately hope Bynum has already come ripe.

But science says that isn't the case. Get your helmets, Big Men of the NBA. It's gonna be a long decade.

It's not just Laker fans that think he'll be a top 3-5 center this year...basketball minds in general do.

robdesign13
09-16-2008, 01:57 PM
that's the worst list i have ever seen. ever.

Vidball
09-16-2008, 04:52 PM
so, what would your list be?

Chronz
09-17-2008, 01:59 AM
that's the worst list i have ever seen. ever.



so, what would your list be?

oooooooooooooooooooo HE CALLED YOU OUT SON