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Faces
09-14-2008, 05:18 PM
This thread stems from conversations and threads about Chris Bosh leaving the Toronto Raptors in favour of a “big market team” when his contract is up. This got me thinking… What defines a big market team and why isn’t Toronto considered to be one?

Toronto is the fifth-most populist municipality in North America with over 2.5 million people, being only behind only behind New York, L.A., Chicago and Houston. The Greater Toronto Area has a population of over 5.5 million while the area known as the Golden Horseshoe which makes up southern Ontario has a population of over 8.1 million. Basketball is quickly growing in popularity in Toronto and across Canada, especially after Steve Nash won his two MVP awards and since the Raptors have had a couple of relatively successful seasons. And the fact that the Toronto Maple Leafs and Toronto Blue Jays have sucked as of late has meant that the Raptors have been the city's only winning team, creating a lot of interest and excitement around them.

So what makes a place like Miami (which I’ve heard so many times as a “likely” destination for Bosh) a bigger market than Toronto? Miami only has a population of just over 400,000! I understand that Toronto is first and foremost a hockey town, but it can be argued that the number one sport in most “big market cities” in the US is not basketball either. I would guess that basketball is probably second to baseball in New York, third to Football and Baseball in Boston, second to Football in any of the southern states. Not only that, but the folks at Maple Leaf Sports have done a great job at marketing the team as Canada’s team, bringing in a fan base from across the country.

One thing I will agree that Toronto does not have going for them is American TV coverage. I think ESPN only shows one or two games a season, and this could be because it is believed that Americans might not be as interested in watching a Canadian team play as they would an American team (and really, I don’t blame them… Most people in Canada would rather watch a Canadian team play hockey than an American one too).

So why is that I keep hearing that Bosh is going to run off to one of these so called big market teams and why isn’t Toronto considered to be a big market?

This thread is just meant to spark some conversation about this topic and isn’t meant as an attack against any team, so let’s all try and keep things civil and not start making fun of each other cities and countries.

Mile High Champ
09-14-2008, 05:43 PM
Bosh aint going anywhere. The market in toronto is plenty big for bosh and unlike many of his other american counterparts has played in Toronto and enjoyed it. Chirs Bosh is always treated with respect and admiration here. People too often jump the gun and assume a player is leaving Toronto just because it is a Canadian city. Toronto is one of the best cities in North America. Its more likely that Wade, James and Anthony leave their current teams before Bosh does. Im tired of peole who post otherwise.

heyman321
09-14-2008, 05:51 PM
Nobody wants to play in Canada, let's be honest here.

Then why would players even sign in Toronto? Please shut up man, you're talking out of your ***.

Cavs_Fan24
09-14-2008, 05:53 PM
i think Bosh wants to stay in Toronto and he will.

rapswin98
09-14-2008, 06:10 PM
bosh ain't going no where

pwest6
09-14-2008, 06:11 PM
lets be honest here........Canada is a great country..compared the redneck country under us....

ouch...

fairandbalanced
09-14-2008, 06:11 PM
Big Market = Places tourists frequent. Most of us would rather visit Miami than Toronto.........heck i'll rather visit New Hampshire than Toronto.

Dol-Fan
09-14-2008, 06:15 PM
Nobody wants to play in Canada, let's be honest here.


This thread is just meant to spark some conversation about this topic and isn’t meant as an attack against any team, so let’s all try and keep things civil and not start making fun of each other cities and countries.

3 posts in and you already forget what the OP stated... congratulations you are an idiot.

Canada has the exact same weather patterns as Boston, New York, Cleveland, Minnesota, Milwaukee, Washington, Seattle, Denver, Utah and many other teams I'm sure. So throw out the "hey it's so cold up here" BS. The taxes hardly even affect a player making as much money as these guys do. It's simply the idea of living in a different country, which I understand, but a player with a reasonable head on their shoulders would have no problem playing in Toronto for all of the reasons that the OP gave.

Bosh has a great head on his shoulders, he knows what this city has to offer, he is a superstar around here and basketball is only getting bigger and the Raptors are only getting better. He knows that BC is trying to build a championship team and for that reason he will stay. Unless they collapse, Bosh has no reason to leave and the Raps can offer him a bigger contract than any other team.

Don't forget the cap space they will have in the heralded summer of 2010 when JO's contract comes off of the books...

Dol-Fan
09-14-2008, 06:17 PM
Big Market = Places tourists frequent. Most of us would rather visit Miami than Toronto.........heck i'll rather visit New Hampshire than Toronto.

do you forget that Toronto is 1 hour north of Niagara Falls, one of the biggest tourist draws in the world?

Nonetheless, a big market is not a place that tourists frequent. A big market basketball-wise is known as a big media market, something that Toronto certainly is.

FromDallas
09-14-2008, 06:22 PM
Nobody wants to play in Canada, let's be honest here.

I'm sure Canada is a beautiful place and true Toronto is a big market however SDBearsFan has a point. For big time stars they are not going to get the publicity and endorsements in Toronto that they could get in a major U.S. market. It's not the city that's the problem it's business.

I personally would love to see him come to Dallas. It's his home town and it's a large market. Kidd's contract will be coming off the books so Cuban and Donnie Nelson should be able to make a legit run at Bosh.

bogdanrom
09-14-2008, 06:24 PM
I think he will stay in Toronto. And yeah Toronto is a big market, maybe not as big as New York, Miami, and Los Angeles, but still.

blazerman
09-14-2008, 06:35 PM
I Like Bosh in Toronto,he's th face of the franchise,but lots of players in smaller markets want to play in a bigger market city.
A big market city is a city that is well known for sports such as L.A. or Chicago and generally can sustain multiple teams regardless of population and can attract viewers any day of the week even if there not playing a marquee opponent.
Players often are recognized by people that generally don't even follow their sport. Alot of players that play in small markets, feel like they might get more endorsements on a more visable franchise or just more exposure playing for a more household name team.
Most people could name numerous players past or present from the Lakers/Celtics/Bulls,but probably would have a hard tome naming one from a team such as Atlanta/Golden state or Toronto, if they didnt follow the sport.
My team the "trailblazers",probably are seen the same way in other parts of the U.S. and Canada as well,but it comes with the territory or should I say region.I am ok with it though,there are alot of big market teams that are gonna get embarrassed by my team in the near future and I look forward to watching it on tv even if its the only time they are televised all yr.

Nighthawk
09-14-2008, 06:37 PM
^^good point...Bosh is heading to a big market



NO WAY BOSH STAYS. His talents are to great to be on a team that isnt and wont be contending for titles. Bosh is going to get a hefty pay raise and i will be absolutely shocked if Bosh stays in Toronto. Im pretty sure he wants to play for a contender after he gets his cash.

Dol-Fan
09-14-2008, 06:39 PM
NO WAY BOSH STAYS. His talents are to great to be on a team that isnt and wont be contending for titles. Bosh is going to get a hefty pay raise and i will be absolutely shocked if Bosh stays in Toronto. Im pretty sure he wants to play for a contender after he gets his cash.

hahaha do some research before posting something stupid, give some evidence WHY Toronto won't be contending for titles in the future? They're core is young and they have A LOT of salary cap room in a very important summer. We can also assume that Bosh now has ties with the boys from his Olympic team.

Faces
09-14-2008, 07:34 PM
I was expecting the "No one wants to sign in Canada" comment... But for it to come out as the second response, that's impressive! :P

Do you guys think Toronto would get more attention and respect from the US media if we make it into the second round of the playoffs this year? Or maybe the conference finals? Exactly what would it take?

And a question for those of you who think no one wants to sign in Canada... Would you still think that if Toronto ends up being a real contender for a championship?

horry1ur
09-14-2008, 09:53 PM
IMHO, Bosh will go to Dallas where hes from

rapswin98
09-14-2008, 10:09 PM
Big Market = Places tourists frequent. Most of us would rather visit Miami than Toronto.........heck i'll rather visit New Hampshire than Toronto.new hampshire > toronto either your joking or your ****in ********.

NYKnickFanatic
09-14-2008, 10:13 PM
Who cares. Bosh is wack.

ramz.n
09-14-2008, 10:14 PM
the only reason bosh will leave is because of the climate in Toronto

Master P
09-14-2008, 10:16 PM
Funny that we only hear about playing in Canada as a problem for NBA players. Baseball fans don't focus on it, nor do hockey fans talk about Canadian NHL players signing with a Canadian team after being drafted to the states.

city of country aside: here is why chris bosh will resign with the Raptors: THEY CAN OFFER HIM MORE MONEY AND A LONGER CONTRACT. look into the cba, it's designed to keep franchise players with the team that holds their contract. Vince Carter had it right, if you want to go just play like crap and cry your way out of town as opposed to signing for less money / time.

so with that in mind, if he did decide to leave it would be for reasons beyond being in Canada. maybe he'll feel disrespected by the team, maybe he'll decide the ownership isn't committed to winning, etc.

Master P
09-14-2008, 10:18 PM
climate shouldnt be a real concern for players. look at the success of the bulls, where the average winter temperature is comparable if not colder than toronto. everytime i go to chicago i freeze my nuts off.

knowledgeGOD
09-14-2008, 11:12 PM
Who cares. Bosh is wack.

LOL the KNICKS are whack

Beno7500
09-14-2008, 11:14 PM
Bosh won't leave.

Dol-Fan
09-14-2008, 11:15 PM
What does 'whack' mean? Can someone please explain it really confuses me to see all this street language on here :confused:

DaNtHeMaN628
09-15-2008, 12:09 AM
So what makes a place like Miami (which I’ve heard so many times as a “likely” destination for Bosh) a bigger market than Toronto? Miami only has a population of just over 400,000!

Yeah...your wrong, if you ever traveled to Miami you would know that people really don't live in the city but rather in Miami Dade County which composes our fan base. Here are the actual stats on Miami. Enjoy!!!

Stats:
The Miami Urbanized Area (as defined by the Census Bureau) was the fifth most populous urbanized area in the U.S. in the 2000 census with a population of 4,919,036.[5] The United Nations estimated that in 2007, Miami had become the fourth largest urbanized area in the country, behind New York City, Los Angeles, and Chicago. [6]

hyphy king 88
09-15-2008, 12:26 AM
Money talks now a days and whoever he gets the most money from come 2010 he will end up with unless Toronto wants to sign him to an extention.

Fribbles
09-15-2008, 12:32 AM
Canada is a hockey country...not basketball.

ink
09-15-2008, 12:35 AM
So why is that I keep hearing that Bosh is going to run off to one of these so called big market teams and why isn’t Toronto considered to be a big market?

Because fans in every city are always paranoid they're going to lose their star players.

RocketsRule
09-15-2008, 12:48 AM
He could leave, depends on who has the money. Most likely, he will stay with Toronto, as long as they keep him happy.

Although I bet no one else shares this view, I could see him going to the Kings in 2010. They will have the money and a nice young team.

frescoelmo
09-15-2008, 12:58 AM
He probably wants to move to a market where he can actually show his face. Let's be honest. Aside from Toronto's sprawling metropolitan area, it's a hockey town and outside of the United States. He's never going to get any coverage or media with where he's at right now, and for a guy who's that talented it's a shame. A "big" market isn't categorized by the population of the city at all. Yes, usually the big market teams reside in the most populated cities. Look at Boston though; their population is lower than both Seattle AND Milwaukee. But year in and year out they get sellout crowds to every sporting event. Seattle is bigger and they just lost their team!

I bet Toronto can give him a huge contract that'll compare to any other team's, but that's not the point. The only time he's ever seen is on Sportscenter and it makes sense for him to move somewhere where he can finally be seen. The average basketball fan probably doesn't even know who Chris Bosh is, and the biggest reason for that unfortunately is because he plays for the Raptors.

jnb58
09-15-2008, 01:02 AM
What does 'whack' mean? Can someone please explain it really confuses me to see all this street language on here :confused:

You need the Jim Rome dictionary. I'm not kidding. He has changed the way people talk about sports.
Whack is a nicer substitute for stupid.
Grill = Teeth
Dome = Head
SoCal = Southern California
There are hundreds.

Lakersfan2483
09-15-2008, 01:06 AM
If Bosh gets offered a huge contract to go elsewhere, I think he will go.

hyphy king 88
09-15-2008, 01:25 AM
He could leave, depends on who has the money. Most likely, he will stay with Toronto, as long as they keep him happy.

Although I bet no one else shares this view, I could see him going to the Kings in 2010. They will have the money and a nice young team.

IMO I really believe most players now a days go for the most money offered and the Kings will have tons of that in 2010.

BigSteve
09-15-2008, 01:43 AM
I think where Bosh plays will have alot to do with how teh Raptors play this year. If O'Neal turns out to be a bad move and the team plays below its potential he may look to move on. If they improve on what they did last year and appear to be a team on the rise he will probably stay.

rico
09-15-2008, 02:37 AM
i dont see bosh leaving.

Iceman_9
09-15-2008, 07:28 AM
Bosh will sign with the LAKERS! :D

NYKnickFanatic
09-15-2008, 08:14 AM
I see Bosh retiring as a Raptor, unless the team completely falls apart, and he wants out.

Dol-Fan
09-15-2008, 09:49 AM
Canada is a hockey country...not basketball.

And the US is a baseball and football country over basketball? What exactly is your point? We're talking about Toronto, not Canada as a whole. Canada isn't this little block of ice that many of you picture it to be.

Toronto, on the other hand, is increasingly becoming a basketball city as hockey fans start to age, the Maple Leafs continue to suck, and the Raptors start to get better.

pebloemer
09-15-2008, 10:08 AM
He probably wants to move to a market where he can actually show his face. Let's be honest. Aside from Toronto's sprawling metropolitan area, it's a hockey town and outside of the United States. He's never going to get any coverage or media with where he's at right now, and for a guy who's that talented it's a shame. A "big" market isn't categorized by the population of the city at all. Yes, usually the big market teams reside in the most populated cities. Look at Boston though; their population is lower than both Seattle AND Milwaukee. But year in and year out they get sellout crowds to every sporting event. Seattle is bigger and they just lost their team!

I bet Toronto can give him a huge contract that'll compare to any other team's, but that's not the point. The only time he's ever seen is on Sportscenter and it makes sense for him to move somewhere where he can finally be seen. The average basketball fan probably doesn't even know who Chris Bosh is, and the biggest reason for that unfortunately is because he plays for the Raptors.

Everything you are speaking about here boils down to perspective and I am curious where your perspective comes from. Because I guarrantee you just about everyone in Ontario knows Bosh's face and sees it frequently in the media.

From my perspective (Hamilton, ON), the people that don't follow basketball up here know Bosh better than just about any NBA star not named Kobe or Lebron.

I assure you, he is seen, he is well known and he is admired by millions. Toronto is not the ignorant big market supporting a team that no one wants to play for anymore. As previously posted, if Bosh leaves it will be because he does not like the team's direction or he doesn't like how he is treated. I firmly believe that this is being as honest as can be...

Icebox922
09-15-2008, 11:07 AM
^^good point...Bosh is heading to a big market



NO WAY BOSH STAYS. His talents are to great to be on a team that isnt and wont be contending for titles. Bosh is going to get a hefty pay raise and i will be absolutely shocked if Bosh stays in Toronto. Im pretty sure he wants to play for a contender after he gets his cash.


Team that wont be contending for a title.

CELTICS before Garnet and Allen , would you say that this team is bound for a title? so why did Pierce stay?

Would you say that CELTICS is a much bigger market than Toronto?

Last time I checked toronto is one of the top teams in the nba when it comes to ticket sales.

THE PROBLEM WITH THESE FORUMS IS THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE HERE RUNS THEIR MOUTH , WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT IN THE HELL THEY ARE PROMOTING.


KNOW WHAT YOU PROMOTE PEOPLE!

Icebox922
09-15-2008, 11:16 AM
Originally Posted by Fribbles
Canada is a hockey country...not basketball.


Yes your right,

Canada is a Hockey country , Basketball Second then Football and Soccer third.


Naming FOOTBALL third why in the hell is your BILLS (AMERICAN TEAM) asking for Torontos help to keep their team alive. considering Toronto is not a big market for sports???

Mr.ATLHawks
09-15-2008, 11:29 AM
Nobody wants to play in Canada b/c of the damn excessive taxes...lets be honest nothing to do with market. Bosh isnt a flashy player so that hurts his marketablity. If he leaves I would say TAXES would be a valid reason

ugottabjoshinme
09-15-2008, 11:46 AM
I Like Bosh in Toronto,he's th face of the franchise,but lots of players in smaller markets want to play in a bigger market city.
A big market city is a city that is well known for sports such as L.A. or Chicago and generally can sustain multiple teams regardless of population and can attract viewers any day of the week even if there not playing a marquee opponent.
Players often are recognized by people that generally don't even follow their sport. Alot of players that play in small markets, feel like they might get more endorsements on a more visable franchise or just more exposure playing for a more household name team.
Most people could name numerous players past or present from the Lakers/Celtics/Bulls,but probably would have a hard tome naming one from a team such as Atlanta/Golden state or Toronto, if they didnt follow the sport.
My team the "trailblazers",probably are seen the same way in other parts of the U.S. and Canada as well,but it comes with the territory or should I say region.I am ok with it though,there are alot of big market teams that are gonna get embarrassed by my team in the near future and I look forward to watching it on tv even if its the only time they are televised all yr.

That is probably because these teams have won championships, where as golden state, toronto, atlanta have not. the question that then needs to be asked is....are the large market teams getting all the good players only because they are in a large media market? Has the media given large market teams an advantage when it comes to free agency?

Frank Costanza
09-15-2008, 12:00 PM
^^good point...Bosh is heading to a big market



NO WAY BOSH STAYS. His talents are to great to be on a team that isnt and wont be contending for titles. Bosh is going to get a hefty pay raise and i will be absolutely shocked if Bosh stays in Toronto. Im pretty sure he wants to play for a contender after he gets his cash.
If he felt that way in the past , that all changed with the aquistion of one guy and its not Jermaine oneal, it was Brain colangelo, BC singed CB4 to the extension. its BC that has promised all of canada , the raps and CB4 that he is building towards a championship, bosh is a character guy and this city and country love and embrace him as their biggest star. he aint going anywhere, and now for the JO talk, he now is apart of what will be considered the best and most talented front court from an offensive and defensive standpoint, he has made a home for himself here, made many freinds and great teamates, bosh will retire a raptor because he is an old fashioned traditionalist who belives you die inthe same colours your drafted in, and when he leaves the number 4 will be the first raptor retired number. one question boys, do you think VInCes 15 will be retired come 20 yrs down the road?????????

Lundbelievable
09-15-2008, 12:16 PM
So what makes a place like Miami (which I’ve heard so many times as a “likely” destination for Bosh) a bigger market than Toronto? Miami only has a population of just over 400,000!


Miami has a metro area(what really matters, its size in area is tiny compared to cities like New York, Los Angeles, San Antonio and Chicago) of like 5.4 million+. That's larger than the metro areas of Atlanta, Detroit, Boston and Phoenix.

When sports leagues(more specifcally, the NBA) decide where to put a team, they look at the metro areas. That's why Louisville, Pittsburgh and Cincinnatti don't have NBA teams despite large in-city-boundary populations.

deknow
09-15-2008, 12:39 PM
Then why would players even sign in Toronto? Please shut up man, you're talking out of your ***.

Contender!!!! its been a while man, what's good bro?

IndyRealist
09-15-2008, 12:45 PM
Media markets are defined as large or small depending on TV viewership, merchandise sales, etc. It has very little to do with the size of your area, but rather how many people across the nation watch your team. The Lakers have far more fans, who watch the games (and ads) and buy merchandise, than live in LA itself. They're all over the place. Case in point, 2007 NBA Finals. San Antonio Spurs vs. Cleveland Cavaliers, worst TV ratings in 20 years. 2008 NBA Finals, Boston Celtics vs. LA Lakers, highest TV ratings in 20 years. Which players do you think advertisers are going to throw their money at? A player who plays in a smaller market ends up with less endorsement deals, which fuels the majority of their income. If someone in a big market offers Bosh a max deal in a big market, he'll probably take it even though Toronto can offer an extra year. Why? Because the $20 million that he would make that extra year pales in comparison to the $30-$40 extra million he would make in endorsements should he play in say, New York. And he'd make the money in less time, allowing him to sign another lucrative contract while still relatively in his prime.

Canucklehead
09-15-2008, 12:54 PM
Toronto is a Huge Market you guys posting otherwise have no idea.

Nevermind Toronto's population you have the majority of the rest of Canadian basketball fans as well.

IndyRealist
09-15-2008, 12:58 PM
Team that wont be contending for a title.

CELTICS before Garnet and Allen , would you say that this team is bound for a title? so why did Pierce stay?

Would you say that CELTICS is a much bigger market than Toronto?

Last time I checked toronto is one of the top teams in the nba when it comes to ticket sales.

THE PROBLEM WITH THESE FORUMS IS THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE HERE RUNS THEIR MOUTH , WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT IN THE HELL THEY ARE PROMOTING.


KNOW WHAT YOU PROMOTE PEOPLE!

Ticket sales have nothing to do with it. Tickets are how the team makes it's money. The NBA itself makes it's money off of television viewership, and big time players like Bosh make their money off of endorsement deals, which are directly tied the TV viewership. Very few people in the US watch the Raptors games on TV, but everyone watches the Celtics, Lakers, etc.

Dol-Fan
09-15-2008, 01:19 PM
Ticket sales have nothing to do with it. Tickets are how the team makes it's money. The NBA itself makes it's money off of television viewership, and big time players like Bosh make their money off of endorsement deals, which are directly tied the TV viewership. Very few people in the US watch the Raptors games on TV, but everyone watches the Celtics, Lakers, etc.

Thank you for the solid points, that certainly makes sense and brings some light to what actually constitutes a big market team. I think if Jermaine is revjuvenated this year, however, that the Raptors will be a much more desireable team to watch and hopefully gain more TV viewership in the states.

It's very refreshing to see someone who backs up their points with intelligence, it has really deteriorated on this board within the last year or so.

Icebox922
09-15-2008, 02:32 PM
Ticket sales have nothing to do with it. Tickets are how the team makes it's money. The NBA itself makes it's money off of television viewership, and big time players like Bosh make their money off of endorsement deals, which are directly tied the TV viewership. Very few people in the US watch the Raptors games on TV, but everyone watches the Celtics, Lakers, etc.

you might have a point ... but i still think this is based in what you see where you from.

but where im from which is TORONTO if were talking about TV broadcasting. i am pretty sure in every state is much much diff. just like in indiana they show a lot of pacers game. were talking about a state here being compare to the whole country which is canada.

chris bosh is the face of canada rite now. being the raptors is the only team in canada in regards to basketball. and raptors being a multi cultural team. their game is being broadcast in a lot more countries compare to any other nba teams.


ABOUT ENDORSEMENT:

Bosh gets all the endorsement he can get from canada. The only thing is BOSH IS NOT A FLASHY player which doesnt help him that much. You need to be a flashy player to get a lot of ENDORSEMENTS. look at VC when he was playing for the raptors . dont tell me that this guy didnt get no endorsement when he was playing for the RAPTORS.

Look at one of the best player in the league who plays for a BIG MARKET COUNTRY... TIM DUNCAN .. HOW MANY ENDORSEMENTS DO YOU SEE THIS GUY IN?

Jaji
09-15-2008, 02:36 PM
Big Market = Places tourists frequent. Most of us would rather visit Miami than Toronto.........heck i'll rather visit New Hampshire than Toronto.

You've clearly never been to Toronto.


the only reason bosh will leave is because of the climate in Toronto

Good point but it's not like he's playing in Russia. Toronto has a better climate than my hometown, Buffalo, New York. They don't get as much snow.

It's hard to say whether he'll stay or go. I'd guess stay simply because Toronto can offer him more money. Vince Carter got plenty of exposure in the big market that is Toronto. What hurts Bosh's marketability more than the city he plays in is the position he plays. Perimeter guys get all the love in this league.

Toronto = NYC - the crime and debris

Sixerlover
09-15-2008, 03:00 PM
do you forget that Toronto is 1 hour north of Niagara Falls, one of the biggest tourist draws in the world?

Nonetheless, a big market is not a place that tourists frequent. A big market basketball-wise is known as a big media market, something that Toronto certainly is.

That's the problem though. It is not a big media market is the U.S, it is in Canada. MANY fairweather fans don't know about Jose Calderon, or Anthony Parker, or Jamario Moon simply because they get no media attention in the states. Toronto really isn't a media and public capital (aka a big market team) like NY, Miami, LA, Chicago is

FromDallas
09-15-2008, 03:04 PM
Bosh needs to come back to Dallas. Once Kidd's contract is off the books (which it will be by the time Bosh is a free agent) the Mavs will be able to make a run at him.

Mile High Champ
09-15-2008, 03:21 PM
the only reason bosh will leave is because of the climate in Toronto

thats just plain stupid..Toronto has the same climate as any city in the North Eastern United States... Do some research.

pebloemer
09-15-2008, 03:23 PM
That's the problem though. It is not a big media market is the U.S, it is in Canada. MANY fairweather fans don't know about Jose Calderon, or Anthony Parker, or Jamario Moon simply because they get no media attention in the states. Toronto really isn't a media and public capital (aka a big market team) like NY, Miami, LA, Chicago is

What could Bosh gain from media attention in the States that he can't gain from media attention in Canada?

Fame?
Ego?

I am not saying there is nothing that can be gained, I am only looking for someone to enlighten me. Endorsements have been discussed, but is that the only perk?

For me, the argument about media attention is only valid is if what is gained through it is something that Bosh wants. So the questions for me are:

What is gained by getting media attention in the U.S?
Does Bosh want this?

Dol-Fan
09-15-2008, 03:26 PM
thats just plain stupid..Toronto has the same climate as any city in the North Eastern United States... Do some research.

I think we can agree that these boards are losing a lot of credibility.


That's the problem though. It is not a big media market is the U.S, it is in Canada. MANY fairweather fans don't know about Jose Calderon, or Anthony Parker, or Jamario Moon simply because they get no media attention in the states. Toronto really isn't a media and public capital (aka a big market team) like NY, Miami, LA, Chicago is

You're right, but you have to remember that the team, at this point, has only been around for what, 10 years? When Vince Carter was here we got tons of publicity, and I think with JO and Bosh together, that publicity will start to return. Nonetheless, Toronto is still a bigger media market than say, Minnesota, Portland, Milwaukee, Atlanta, Charlotte, Denver, Utah, Oklahoma City, New Orleans etc. It can be debated that Toronto is a bigger market than say, Indiana or Orlando as well and I'm sure there are more. None of these teams get media coverage in the States (in fact, really only PHX, SA, LA, BOS, CHI, MIA, HOU, DAL get fair media attention in the states) and to say that those are the only teams that could ever sign big name players is ludacris.

marvILLous
09-15-2008, 03:28 PM
You've clearly never been to Toronto.



Good point but it's not like he's playing in Russia. Toronto has a better climate than my hometown, Buffalo, New York. They don't get as much snow.

It's hard to say whether he'll stay or go. I'd guess stay simply because Toronto can offer him more money. Vince Carter got plenty of exposure in the big market that is Toronto. What hurts Bosh's marketability more than the city he plays in is the position he plays. Perimeter guys get all the love in this league.

Toronto = NYC - the crime and debris

Actually toronto is pretty bad loll..

Sixerlover
09-15-2008, 03:37 PM
What could Bosh gain from media attention in the States that he can't gain from media attention in Canada?

Fame?
Ego?

I am not saying there is nothing that can be gained, I am only looking for someone to enlighten me. Endorsements have been discussed, but is that the only perk?

For me, the argument about media attention is only valid is if what is gained through it is something that Bosh wants. So the questions for me are:

What is gained by getting media attention in the U.S?
Does Bosh want this?
Why does anyone want to go to a big market team? For all those reasons.



You're right, but you have to remember that the team, at this point, has only been around for what, 10 years? When Vince Carter was here we got tons of publicity, and I think with JO and Bosh together, that publicity will start to return. Nonetheless, Toronto is still a bigger media market than say, Minnesota, Portland, Milwaukee, Atlanta, Charlotte, Denver, Utah, Oklahoma City, New Orleans etc. It can be debated that Toronto is a bigger market than say, Indiana or Orlando as well and I'm sure there are more. None of these teams get media coverage in the States (in fact, really only PHX, SA, LA, BOS, CHI, MIA, HOU, DAL get fair media attention in the states) and to say that those are the only teams that could ever sign big name players is ludacris.

I'm not arguing that he doesn't want to stay in Toronto, actually I've heard nothing about him even considering leaving. Just saying that there are markets with more media coverage with less of a population (I probably should have quoted the OP instead of you)

marvILLous
09-15-2008, 03:37 PM
I think we can agree that these boards are losing a lot of credibility.



You're right, but you have to remember that the team, at this point, has only been around for what, 10 years? When Vince Carter was here we got tons of publicity, and I think with JO and Bosh together, that publicity will start to return. Nonetheless, Toronto is still a bigger media market than say, Minnesota, Portland, Milwaukee, Atlanta, Charlotte, Denver, Utah, Oklahoma City, New Orleans etc. It can be debated that Toronto is a bigger market than say, Indiana or Orlando as well and I'm sure there are more. None of these teams get media coverage in the States (in fact, really only PHX, SA, LA, BOS, CHI, MIA, HOU, DAL get fair media attention in the states) and to say that those are the only teams that could ever sign big name players is ludacris.

CLE too cuz of Lebron lol

IndyRealist
09-15-2008, 03:44 PM
you might have a point ... but i still think this is based in what you see where you from.

but where im from which is TORONTO if were talking about TV broadcasting. i am pretty sure in every state is much much diff. just like in indiana they show a lot of pacers game. were talking about a state here being compare to the whole country which is canada.

chris bosh is the face of canada rite now. being the raptors is the only team in canada in regards to basketball. and raptors being a multi cultural team. their game is being broadcast in a lot more countries compare to any other nba teams.


ABOUT ENDORSEMENT:

Bosh gets all the endorsement he can get from canada. The only thing is BOSH IS NOT A FLASHY player which doesnt help him that much. You need to be a flashy player to get a lot of ENDORSEMENTS. look at VC when he was playing for the raptors . dont tell me that this guy didnt get no endorsement when he was playing for the RAPTORS.

Look at one of the best player in the league who plays for a BIG MARKET COUNTRY... TIM DUNCAN .. HOW MANY ENDORSEMENTS DO YOU SEE THIS GUY IN?

You're comparing countries though, in terms of TV viewership across North America, I'd imagine that the Raptors are rather low (I have no numbers to back this up and couldn't find any online, so if you have some I'd appreciate a post). I know that the Raptors have 2 nationally (US) televised games next year (Dec 5, Apr 10) versus 25 for the Lakers, 25 for the Celtics, 21 for the Mavericks, 13 for the Blazers, 13 for the Rockets, 11 for Orlando and 11 for the Wizards. If you were an advertising executive, where would you want to put your money?

Tim Duncan plays in a small market, San Antonio. They have a smaller city, a small fan base, and low TV viewership. That's why he doesn't get many endorsements. They do have 19 nationally televised games, but as the 2007 NBA Finals proved, no one really watches the Spurs.

Canada's estimated population is 33 million. The estimated US population is 300 million. Again, as an ad exec, where would you put your money?

Icebox922
09-15-2008, 03:55 PM
You're comparing countries though, in terms of TV viewership across North America, I'd imagine that the Raptors are rather low (I have no numbers to back this up and couldn't find any online, so if you have some I'd appreciate a post). I know that the Raptors have 2 nationally (US) televised games next year (Dec 5, Apr 10) versus 25 for the Lakers, 25 for the Celtics, 21 for the Mavericks, 13 for the Blazers, 13 for the Rockets, 11 for Orlando and 11 for the Wizards. If you were an advertising executive, where would you want to put your money?

Tim Duncan plays in a small market, San Antonio. They have a smaller city, a small fan base, and low TV viewership. That's why he doesn't get many endorsements. They do have 19 nationally televised games, but as the 2007 NBA Finals proved, no one really watches the Spurs.

Canada's estimated population is 33 million. The estimated US population is 300 million. Again, as an ad exec, where would you put your money?


No HOMO.

Im beginning to think that everywhere I post you kinda follow me around and qoute my post.

but to answer your questions since youre giving me numbers here.

TEXAS is not a small market - HOW CAN A STATE HAVE THREE TEAMS IN THE NBA be considered as a small market .

since youre giving me numbers MR AD EXECUTIVE .. PLEASE DO THE MATH ON THIS ONE AND YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO ANSWER YOUR OWN QUESTION WITHOUT MY HELP.

CANADA 33 million - Number of NBA TEAMS = 1 TORONTO RAPTORS
(all star player and face of the team = 1 Chris Bosh)

USA 300 million - Number of NBA TEAMS = 29 TEAMS
(all star players and face of their franchise = tooo many to mention)

Dol-Fan
09-15-2008, 04:05 PM
No HOMO.

Im beginning to think that everywhere I post you kinda follow me around and qoute my post.

but to answer your questions since youre giving me numbers here.

TEXAS is not a small market - HOW CAN A STATE HAVE THREE TEAMS IN THE NBA be considered as a small market .

since youre giving me numbers MR AD EXECUTIVE .. PLEASE DO THE MATH ON THIS ONE AND YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO ANSWER YOUR OWN QUESTION WITHOUT MY HELP.

CANADA 33 million - Number of NBA TEAMS = 1 TORONTO RAPTORS
(all star player and face of the team = 1 Chris Bosh)

USA 300 million - Number of NBA TEAMS = 29 TEAMS
(all star players and face of their franchise = tooo many to mention)

Putting your opinions in capital letters always makes it more believable, oh jesus, I suddenly have the urge to agree with you!

Canada: 33 million spread across the 2nd largest country (land mass) in the world.

USA: 300 million concentrated in a much smaller area with much more TV coverage of their basketball teams with much more prominent TV stations (ESPN, ABC, TNT) as opposed to what? ESPN Jr. aka TSN? The Score? Or that joke of a network RSN?

IndyRealist is right about the market difference, however I still see Bosh staying here. He doesn't seem like a 'big city' type of guy. He is very low-key and seems to really like it here, he should stay as long as the Raps management is focused on the same thing he is: winning a title.

IndyRealist
09-15-2008, 04:07 PM
What could Bosh gain from media attention in the States that he can't gain from media attention in Canada?

Fame?
Ego?

I am not saying there is nothing that can be gained, I am only looking for someone to enlighten me. Endorsements have been discussed, but is that the only perk?

For me, the argument about media attention is only valid is if what is gained through it is something that Bosh wants. So the questions for me are:

What is gained by getting media attention in the U.S?
Does Bosh want this?

1) Endorsements. Lots of them. Take the much publicized rumors that Lebron may move to New York. His endorsement deal with Nike apparently states that he will make an additional $40 million if he plays in LA, Chicago, or New York. $40 million, and he doesn't have to do any additional work. The Cavs can give him an extra year on his contract, worth around $20 million. He can make more money, in less time, and still be in his prime to sign another lucrative contract.
2) Payroll. Larger market teams make more money. They can afford to pay the luxury tax to acquire players for championship runs. Most teams can't, and so will be hobbled in trade negotiations. A small market team could acquire a max contract player like Bosh for a championship run -if- they already had the complementary players in place, and -if- those players had low salaries for their value, and -if- the team were willing to exceed the luxury tax to make a run at it.


Income varies from team to team, but many sources claim that the average NBA team makes $100 million dollars annually, with the Lakers and Knicks bringing in close to $150 million annually. All the small markets, except for Utah who made the playoffs and eventually the conference finals, brought in less than 85 million dollars. Subtracting the two mega-franchises(Knicks and Lakers) the average NBA gate income was around $750,000 dollars a game or $32,250,000 a year....The TV contracts with ABC, ESPN, and TNT bring each team 28 million for every one of the NBA teams. Merchandising also brings in close to 5 million a year and finally add in the 13 million for local TV contracts. If you’ve been following your math closely, you will see that the total here is not $100 million, its $78 Million. Here is where the differences between small and large markets begin to take effect. Large market teams get around $30-40 million dollars in corporate sponsors and advertisers. Medium markets average around $25 million, and the smaller markets $10-15 million.
Source : http://nbahoopsonline.com/Articles/2007-08/NBArevinuesharing.html

pebloemer
09-15-2008, 04:23 PM
1) Endorsements. Lots of them. Take the much publicized rumors that Lebron may move to New York. His endorsement deal with Nike apparently states that he will make an additional $40 million if he plays in LA, Chicago, or New York. $40 million, and he doesn't have to do any additional work. The Cavs can give him an extra year on his contract, worth around $20 million. He can make more money, in less time, and still be in his prime to sign another lucrative contract.
2) Payroll. Larger market teams make more money. They can afford to pay the luxury tax to acquire players for championship runs. Most teams can't, and so will be hobbled in trade negotiations. A small market team could acquire a max contract player like Bosh for a championship run -if- they already had the complementary players in place, and -if- those players had low salaries for their value, and -if- the team were willing to exceed the luxury tax to make a run at it.

I can definately see the endorsements thing as a potentially big draw.

In regards to payroll, the MLSE has plenty of money to go over luxury tax and bring in players for playoff run, but they have been reluctant to allow Colangelo to surpass the tax threshold. When the time comes Colangelo will surely make a pitch for them to spend over the luxury tax, but hopefully that time is while Bosh is stil on the team. I think the teams commitment to winning and commitment to doing what it takes will be a bigger deciding factor than endorsements for Bosh.

P.S - thank you for answering my question, it is a lot easier to discuss the situation when people are more specific and don't simplify things saying "he'll leave for a big market team where he can get more money" as if it is an accurate enough to describe every NBA player's aspirations.

Icebox922
09-15-2008, 04:39 PM
Putting your opinions in capital letters always makes it more believable, oh jesus, I suddenly have the urge to agree with you!

Canada: 33 million spread across the 2nd largest country (land mass) in the world.

USA: 300 million concentrated in a much smaller area with much more TV coverage of their basketball teams with much more prominent TV stations (ESPN, ABC, TNT) as opposed to what? ESPN Jr. aka TSN? The Score? Or that joke of a network RSN?

IndyRealist is right about the market difference, however I still see Bosh staying here. He doesn't seem like a 'big city' type of guy. He is very low-key and seems to really like it here, he should stay as long as the Raps management is focused on the same thing he is: winning a title.

Im still amazed how you typed all that and still didnt made any sense at all. now youre comparing TV stations?

why am i even bothering with you ? its kinda funny too that youre making fun of tv stations in canada when YOURE FROM ST CATHERINES..your city is a mooch.. you guys feed off toronto and niagara falls. and please please dont tell me that you dont have a RAPTORS JERSEY..

Dol-Fan
09-15-2008, 04:45 PM
Im still amazed how you typed all that and still didnt made any sense at all. now youre comparing TV stations?

why am i even bothering with you ? its kinda funny too that youre making fun of tv stations in canada when YOURE FROM ST CATHERINES..your city is a mooch.. you guys feed off toronto and niagara falls. and please please dont tell me that you dont have a RAPTORS JERSEY..

Haha TV stations = ratings = money for teams when their teams are televised on big networks. Canada does not have big networks, and therefore, teams make money when televised on large American networks. I am starting to understand what IndyRealist is saying and I hope you do soon as well.

I'm not making fun of the TV stations, I'm stating facts (BTW, do you not realize how brutal RSN is? Spelling mistakes in the tickers, hosts can't pronounce words, it's awful. Huge fan of the Score though I think the channel is great). I don't have a Raptors jersey, although I'm a huge fan I have better things to spend my money on, such as a university education which it seems like you don't have since you can't spell St. Catharines properly, even though it is displayed in my username :) Don't know how we're a mooch, what do we mooch off of Toronto and the Falls? Please explain.

THE NATION
09-15-2008, 04:47 PM
Big Market = Places tourists frequent. Most of us would rather visit Miami than Toronto.........heck i'll rather visit New Hampshire than Toronto.
Not a valid statement. Toronto is one of the biggest cities in the world, more tourists visit Toronto each year than they do Miami. Have you ever visited anywhere outside of the United States?

IndyRealist
09-15-2008, 04:54 PM
No HOMO.

Im beginning to think that everywhere I post you kinda follow me around and qoute my post.

but to answer your questions since youre giving me numbers here.

TEXAS is not a small market - HOW CAN A STATE HAVE THREE TEAMS IN THE NBA be considered as a small market .

since youre giving me numbers MR AD EXECUTIVE .. PLEASE DO THE MATH ON THIS ONE AND YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO ANSWER YOUR OWN QUESTION WITHOUT MY HELP.

CANADA 33 million - Number of NBA TEAMS = 1 TORONTO RAPTORS
(all star player and face of the team = 1 Chris Bosh)

USA 300 million - Number of NBA TEAMS = 29 TEAMS
(all star players and face of their franchise = tooo many to mention)

I post-hunt pretty much everyone, my job's pretty boring. :smoking:

Small, low-key city splitting Texas with two much bigger markets (Dallas, Houston). So yes, San Antonio is a small market. San Antonio is the NBA's 9th smallest market (source here (http://nbahoopsonline.com/Articles/2007-08/NBArevinuesharing.html), confirmation would be nice though).

Let's assume 10% of Canada watches every single Raptors game. One out of every 10 Canadian homes tunes in for a viewership of 3.3 million. There's more people who watch Laker games just in California. (I was going to use 20%, but I can't imagine that 1 in every 5 homes in Canada tunes in to Raptors basketball every game. If they do, then no way should Bosh leave.) We're not talking all 29 US teams splitting viewership evenly, we're talking about Bosh going to one of the major markets (LA, Boston, New York, Chicago, etc.) with tens of millions of viewers across the United States, yes, and Canada. He's not exactly going to sign in Indiana.

The bottom line is that large market teams can spend more on payroll and go to the Finals more often. From 1980-2002 (the article was written in 2002) only one Finals did not include a large market team (1990, Detriot/Portland), for a 96% rate. (Source http://espn.go.com/sportsbusiness/s/2002/0605/1391275.html)

2003: Spurs/Nets
2004: Lakers/Pistons
2005: Spurs/Pistons
2006: Mavericks/Heat
2007: Spurs/Cavs
2008: Lakers/Celtics

Out of 29 years cited, only 4 of those years was a large market team not involved in the Finals, and that was mostly due to the dominance of the Spurs (86% rate).

Just a note, people seem to be taking this rather personally.

Faces
09-15-2008, 05:14 PM
I have to say, this thread is creating even more drama than expected... :P

Apologies for my misleading info on Miami's population, I knew 400,000 was only the actual city and not the whole metro area... I just couldn't find a list of the largest metropolitan areas in North America.

Now, if Toronto goes far into the playoffs and begins being a serious threat to win it all, do you guys think the big US networks will give them more exposure or are the Raptors forever cursed with little exposure cause they're the "Canadian team"?

MiamiHeat
09-15-2008, 05:18 PM
Bosh your welcome in Miami
:up:

THE NATION
09-15-2008, 05:22 PM
I have to say, this thread is creating even more drama than expected... :P

Apologies for my misleading info on Miami's population, I knew 400,000 was only the actual city and not the whole metro area... I just couldn't find a list of the largest metropolitan areas in North America.

Now, if Toronto goes far into the playoffs and begins being a serious threat to win it all, do you guys think the big US networks will give them more exposure or are the Raptors forever cursed with little exposure cause they're the "Canadian team"?
I think they will get more exposure this year because they are a threat to get to the finals with JO. If JO is healthy, he is a big name with Bosh. They will play well this year and the Networks will have no choice to put the Boston Vs. Toronto or Toronto Vs. Lakers matchups on TV..

IndyRealist
09-15-2008, 05:24 PM
I have to say, this thread is creating even more drama than expected... :P

Apologies for my misleading info on Miami's population, I knew 400,000 was only the actual city and not the whole metro area... I just couldn't find a list of the largest metropolitan areas in North America.

Now, if Toronto goes far into the playoffs and begins being a serious threat to win it all, do you guys think the big US networks will give them more exposure or are the Raptors forever cursed with little exposure cause they're the "Canadian team"?

Nah, when the Pacers won 61 games they got tons of national airtime the following year (the Brawl year, ugh). San Antonio gets a decent amount because they've been so good the past decade. Winning trumps market size, location, etc.

alexanderkeiths
09-15-2008, 05:55 PM
the only reason bosh will leave is because of the climate in Toronto

I heard somewhere that the only place it snows or is cold is in Canada...

if a player wants to play in Miami or somewhere warm rather than a contender or team with upside then noone should want them. As far as endorsements there are about a handfull of players who need to worry bout that. Lebron never did to badly...and noone will mistake cleveland for LA will they

SensandRaps
09-15-2008, 06:02 PM
I heard somewhere that the only place it snows or is cold is in Canada...

if a player wants to play in Miami or somewhere warm rather than a contender or team with upside then noone should want them. As far as endorsements there are about a handfull of players who need to worry bout that. Lebron never did to badly...and noone will mistake cleveland for LA will they

dude wth man typical american attitude it always snows in canada thats bs. thats like us raptors fans saying that y would bosh play in miami, new orleans or one of the texas teams cuz their are a lot of hurricanes their. As for endorsments i agree with u if lebron can get endorsments in cleveland then bosh can get endorsments in toronto

airjesus50
09-15-2008, 06:20 PM
Bosh To The Cavs???

Bob_at_york
09-15-2008, 06:23 PM
Everyone please show more class and quit with the name calling and such. I know how this issue can get personal but don't break the rules. I am really close to shutting this thread down.

SwaggaIke
09-15-2008, 06:40 PM
Its going to be a sad day in Toronto when Bosh leaves after his contract is up. At least you'll have the Bills.

CKs Hairstylist
09-15-2008, 06:43 PM
The idea that Toronto has "the same climate as any other Northeastern US City" has been stated a couple of times in this thread, but this is false. Per Wikipedia, here are the average highs and lows for various NBA cities in January (the coldest month of the year), in Fahrenheit:

Highs:

Philadelphia: 39
New York: 38
Boston: 36
Cleveland: 34
Chicago: 32
Toronto: 30

Lows:

New York: 26
Philadelphia: 24
Boston: 22
Cleveland, Toronto: 19
Chicago: 18

In addition, players on the Raptors have to go through Customs every time they leave for a road trip and every time they return from one. This is quite tiring and was often cited as a reason why baseball players didn't want to play for the Blue Jays or Expos.

So with the Raptors, Bosh gets the worst weather, the worst travel, and the highest taxes of any NBA team. Not a guarantee that he would leave, but certainly reasons why he might consider it, IMO.

SwaggaIke
09-15-2008, 06:45 PM
I heard somewhere that the only place it snows or is cold is in Canada...

if a player wants to play in Miami or somewhere warm rather than a contender or team with upside then noone should want them. As far as endorsements there are about a handfull of players who need to worry bout that. Lebron never did to badly...and noone will mistake cleveland for LA will they

Miami doesn't have upside? One of the best players in the league who will just be entering his prime this year, a possible 19 year old stud in Beasley, a possible championship floor general in Chalmers. If that isn't upside, I don't know what is. Other than Portland it could be argued that Miami has the best future of any team in the league. Don't classify us. Toronto isn't a team bursting w/ potential. JO could be washed up for all we know. And a tandem of Bosh and Calderon is not enough to win a championship w/o a wing player who can take over a game. I'm not trying to knock Toronto and what they are doing up there. But don't knock Miami and what we're doing either. We're a steady center away from making a little bit of noise. By next year, I think we'll be pretty damn dangerous.

zambo4president
09-15-2008, 06:55 PM
come to chi-town

BALLER71
09-15-2008, 07:01 PM
Toronto might have it's natural beauty and everything but seriously do Basektball players want to see the Niagra falls? No...
I don't think Big Market has anything to do with this. Whoever offers the fatter contract will get Bosh. And that will be Toronto. But honestly who would rather play in Toronto rather than Miami?
I think Bosh will stay in Toronto I think the fans love him and he has alot of love for the organization but I believe Miami will make a run at him. Riley almost drafted him ;)

Lundbelievable
09-15-2008, 07:01 PM
Apologies for my misleading info on Miami's population, I knew 400,000 was only the actual city and not the whole metro area... I just couldn't find a list of the largest metropolitan areas in North America.


On Wikipedia, you can find anything you need and more. That's where I get my info

BALLER71
09-15-2008, 07:04 PM
I heard somewhere that the only place it snows or is cold is in Canada...

if a player wants to play in Miami or somewhere warm rather than a contender or team with upside then noone should want them. As far as endorsements there are about a handfull of players who need to worry bout that. Lebron never did to badly...and noone will mistake cleveland for LA will they

I'm not sure how the Heat team will do... hey we had the worst record in the league but to say this team has no upside is a little crazy...

hdxstunts1
09-15-2008, 08:25 PM
Come on down to Chicago Chris. Will take you and win our championships fianlly! All we need is a big scorer and then look out.

He's stated he likes Rose and would like to play with him!

I can see my bullies grabbing him and then makin their run!

knicks1214
09-15-2008, 08:32 PM
@hdxstunts 1:Bosh, and every other member of the USA Olympic team, said that they love playing for D'Antoni and his style of offense...but that doesn't mean that we are going to get the entire team to come to NY, no matter how much I wish for that...
I think Bosh can stay in Toronto, especially if the JO risk turns out well. They have one of the best point guards in the East, and possibly the NBA, with Calderon, they have a solid defender in Moon, and good shooters to stretch the defense. If they make a nice run in the playoffs this year, with a better sg, they can become a perennial powerhouse in the East in years to come. However, there is still the possibility that the JO thing turns out poorly, and in that case he would probably want to leave OR wait until Toronto is able to resign another star before they resign Bosh in the offseason. If they are able to lure another star there, then Bosh will likely stay. If they are not though, he's gone probably.

knowledgeGOD
09-16-2008, 04:08 PM
hes staying in toronto!

frescoelmo
09-21-2008, 02:22 PM
Everything you are speaking about here boils down to perspective and I am curious where your perspective comes from. Because I guarrantee you just about everyone in Ontario knows Bosh's face and sees it frequently in the media.

From my perspective (Hamilton, ON), the people that don't follow basketball up here know Bosh better than just about any NBA star not named Kobe or Lebron.

I assure you, he is seen, he is well known and he is admired by millions. Toronto is not the ignorant big market supporting a team that no one wants to play for anymore. As previously posted, if Bosh leaves it will be because he does not like the team's direction or he doesn't like how he is treated. I firmly believe that this is being as honest as can be...

My perspective was based on the average US fan more or less, not so much the NBA fan... About the same in terms of size. I'm sure Bosh is the face of Toronto sports right now, and right up there for all of Canada. But from what I've seen here in the United States, you have to be a considerably honest fan to know who he is. If you asked the average sports fan who Chris Bosh is, I'm not so sure you'd get the answer you're looking for. I'm sure he is admired by millions like you say he is, but I guarantee that a high percentage of those millions of people are all local to the Toronto metropolitan area. That's the way it is, plain and simple. Canada is not the United States, so I don't see what you're trying to get at. You basically just reiterated what I aforementioned.

And if it makes any difference, I'm from Chicago.

frescoelmo
09-21-2008, 02:24 PM
Come on down to Chicago Chris. Will take you and win our championships fianlly! All we need is a big scorer and then look out.

He's stated he likes Rose and would like to play with him!

I can see my bullies grabbing him and then makin their run!

I'd bet on Marion getting traded here before that happens. There's big sign-and-trade talk about Ben Gordon and Nocioni for Marion and a 1st right now, they're just awaiting the contract Gordon accepts.

heyman321
09-21-2008, 03:39 PM
Miami doesn't have upside? One of the best players in the league who will just be entering his prime this year, a possible 19 year old stud in Beasley, a possible championship floor general in Chalmers. If that isn't upside, I don't know what is. Other than Portland it could be argued that Miami has the best future of any team in the league. Don't classify us. Toronto isn't a team bursting w/ potential. JO could be washed up for all we know. And a tandem of Bosh and Calderon is not enough to win a championship w/o a wing player who can take over a game. I'm not trying to knock Toronto and what they are doing up there. But don't knock Miami and what we're doing either. We're a steady center away from making a little bit of noise. By next year, I think we'll be pretty damn dangerous.


Lol you are completely trying to knock Toronto. I wouldn't see Chalmers as a championship floor general. If you want to put it that way, you could say Calderon would be a legit top 2 point guard and Bosh could become the best power foward or Stephon Marbury could average 25-10 next year. Chalmers and Beasley could be washed up for all we know, after smoking all that marijuana.

Plus, why do you italicize all your posts? Just wondering.

Hawkeye15
09-21-2008, 04:15 PM
The only reason Bosh may leave is Toronto has unreal taxes. Other than that, it is a big market. Especially if they end up being a really good team in the next couple of years. I don't see him leaving. Not soon anyways

frescoelmo
09-21-2008, 04:20 PM
Lol you are completely trying to knock Toronto. I wouldn't see Chalmers as a championship floor general. If you want to put it that way, you could say Calderon would be a legit top 2 point guard and Bosh could become the best power foward or Stephon Marbury could average 25-10 next year. Chalmers and Beasley could be washed up for all we know, after smoking all that marijuana.

Plus, why do you italicize all your posts? Just wondering.

Agreed, that was a biased post. Marion is in the last year of his contract in Miami, they have yet to find a PG good enough to complement Wade. Beasley will be a 25ppg player, true, but you're not going to get much out of him as he projects as a 3 more than a 4. Since when was Miami a center away from the championship? Toronto's in just as close of a position to contend for the title as almost any other team in the east. I would take Toronto right now over Miami in a heartbeat. I seem to remember not too long ago Miami won... 15 games? You're telling me that a team who finished five games worse than any other team in the league is going to be a title contender? With the east coming back to prominence, I could see them hitting .500 in a good year. Probably not good enough to get any higher than an 7-8 at best. Toronto on the other hand could go as high as 4-5 in a good year.

SDBearsFan
09-21-2008, 06:20 PM
You guys are cry-babies if you take "Nobody wants to play in Canada" as an insult. Cry me a river, build me a bridge, and get over it.

How many people have deflected the NBA for Canada? They go to Europe before they go to Canada. It's nothing against the country. The country itself is a desirable place, very nice from my visits up there, but nobody in the NBA can really market themselves unless it's in a major city like New York, or Chicago, Miami, Los Angeles.

no need delete comments, sheesh.

Chaudhry
09-22-2008, 02:22 PM
Canada: 33 million spread across the 2nd largest country (land mass) in the world.

USA: 300 million concentrated in a much smaller area with much more TV coverage of their basketball teams with much more prominent TV stations (ESPN, ABC, TNT) as opposed to what? ESPN Jr. aka TSN? The Score? Or that joke of a network RSN?

yea but Canada's population is not spread evenly over that land mass... the majority of the population is on the or near the border... not alot of people live in the territories, and the territories are huge...


The idea that Toronto has "the same climate as any other Northeastern US City" has been stated a couple of times in this thread, but this is false. Per Wikipedia, here are the average highs and lows for various NBA cities in January (the coldest month of the year), in Fahrenheit:

Highs:

Philadelphia: 39
New York: 38
Boston: 36
Cleveland: 34
Chicago: 32
Toronto: 30

Lows:

New York: 26
Philadelphia: 24
Boston: 22
Cleveland, Toronto: 19
Chicago: 18

In addition, players on the Raptors have to go through Customs every time they leave for a road trip and every time they return from one. This is quite tiring and was often cited as a reason why baseball players didn't want to play for the Blue Jays or Expos.

So with the Raptors, Bosh gets the worst weather, the worst travel, and the highest taxes of any NBA team. Not a guarantee that he would leave, but certainly reasons why he might consider it, IMO.

im pretty sure the raps don't have many problems at customs... and the weather you yourself proved is within 9 degrees and 7 degrees either way of the above listed cities... 9 and 7 Fahrenheit aren't much...


The only reason Bosh may leave is Toronto has unreal taxes. Other than that, it is a big market. Especially if they end up being a really good team in the next couple of years. I don't see him leaving. Not soon anyways
according to http://strickland.ca/taxes.html ... the higher your income the more you get taxed in the US as compared to Canada... the point not being there are more taxes in Canada but that if there are more its not by such a large margin...


You guys are cry-babies if you take "Nobody wants to play in Canada" as an insult. Cry me a river, build me a bridge, and get over it.

How many people have deflected the NBA for Canada? They go to Europe before they go to Canada. It's nothing against the country. The country itself is a desirable place, very nice from my visits up there, but nobody in the NBA can really market themselves unless it's in a major city like New York, or Chicago, Miami, Los Angeles.

no need delete comments, sheesh.

they go to europe cause theres more money in european leagues then Canadian leagues... i don't even know of a canadian league to be honest... not because of the market... football players go to the CFL before nfl europe... yea football isn't nearly as big as basketball in europe...

quoting 4 posters... thats sure to get a response...

anyway to put my 2 cents in im sure bosh has made himself some kind of a life in toronto... to pick up and move just like that would require more then bad weather and a few extra dollars... the only way i see bosh leaving is if Toronto do something to make him leave... like not giving him a good supporting cast or not offering him a max contract when other are...

Blue Tiger
09-22-2008, 02:57 PM
This thread stems from conversations and threads about Chris Bosh leaving the Toronto Raptors in favour of a “big market team” when his contract is up. This got me thinking… What defines a big market team and why isn’t Toronto considered to be one?

Toronto is the fifth-most populist municipality in North America with over 2.5 million people, being only behind only behind New York, L.A., Chicago and Houston. The Greater Toronto Area has a population of over 5.5 million while the area known as the Golden Horseshoe which makes up southern Ontario has a population of over 8.1 million. Basketball is quickly growing in popularity in Toronto and across Canada, especially after Steve Nash won his two MVP awards and since the Raptors have had a couple of relatively successful seasons. And the fact that the Toronto Maple Leafs and Toronto Blue Jays have sucked as of late has meant that the Raptors have been the city's only winning team, creating a lot of interest and excitement around them.

So what makes a place like Miami (which I’ve heard so many times as a “likely” destination for Bosh) a bigger market than Toronto? Miami only has a population of just over 400,000! I understand that Toronto is first and foremost a hockey town, but it can be argued that the number one sport in most “big market cities” in the US is not basketball either. I would guess that basketball is probably second to baseball in New York, third to Football and Baseball in Boston, second to Football in any of the southern states. Not only that, but the folks at Maple Leaf Sports have done a great job at marketing the team as Canada’s team, bringing in a fan base from across the country.

One thing I will agree that Toronto does not have going for them is American TV coverage. I think ESPN only shows one or two games a season, and this could be because it is believed that Americans might not be as interested in watching a Canadian team play as they would an American team (and really, I don’t blame them… Most people in Canada would rather watch a Canadian team play hockey than an American one too).

So why is that I keep hearing that Bosh is going to run off to one of these so called big market teams and why isn’t Toronto considered to be a big market?

This thread is just meant to spark some conversation about this topic and isn’t meant as an attack against any team, so let’s all try and keep things civil and not start making fun of each other cities and countries.


Houston is not larger than Toronto. Houston has 2.1million and Toronto has 2.4million. 2.1million is not larger than 2.4million.:eyebrow:

ink
09-22-2008, 03:38 PM
Houston is not larger than Toronto. Houston has 2.1million and Toronto has 2.4million. 2.1million is not larger than 2.4million.:eyebrow:

And in the Greater Toronto Area there are 5 million (http://www.toronto.ca/toronto_facts/diversity.htm). It's a large market.

king4day
09-22-2008, 04:11 PM
I think given what happend to the Grizzlies, players may not take Canada as a serious BBall town. The dollar isn't the standard currency either. So my guess is, it makes players feel homesick... Unless ur drafted and sorta forced to play there, then they get comfy and don't mind it.

Dol-Fan
09-22-2008, 04:20 PM
I think given what happend to the Grizzlies, players may not take Canada as a serious BBall town. The dollar isn't the standard currency either. So my guess is, it makes players feel homesick... Unless ur drafted and sorta forced to play there, then they get comfy and don't mind it.

Did you just refer to Canada as a town?

The dollar isn't the standard currency but it's worth the same as the US $; it looks way cooler as well :D

How much more homesick could it be than playing in say, Milwaukee?


yea but Canada's population is not spread evenly over that land mass... the majority of the population is on the or near the border... not alot of people live in the territories, and the territories are huge...

I understand that but if you read the posts that I was referring to, the point is that American TV stations are broadcasting to 300 million people in the states and 33 million people in Canada That equals a big market. Canadian TV stations are broadcasting to 33 million Canadians. The Raptors are not seen by Americans very often, therefore they do not generate huge ratings when they are seen on ESPN and co., and therefore they are not put on ESPN and co.

Toronto has the potential to be a big market team but they are not there yet.

ink
09-22-2008, 04:25 PM
I think given what happend to the Grizzlies, players may not take Canada as a serious BBall town. The dollar isn't the standard currency either. So my guess is, it makes players feel homesick... Unless ur drafted and sorta forced to play there, then they get comfy and don't mind it.

You may not have followed the Grizzlies as closely as I did king. They were actually very well supported in Vancouver. The new owner of the franchise - Michael Heisley - lied about his intentions when he bought the team. He had already worked out a deal with FedEx in Memphis and moved the team as soon as he could. That was the motivator for the move, not attendance. The Vancouver edition of the team has consistently outdrawn the Memphis version in terms of attendance.

Homesickness I can understand to a degree, but it's really not that different here.

ink
09-22-2008, 04:53 PM
I understand that but if you read the posts that I was referring to, the point is that American TV stations are broadcasting to 300 million people in the states and 33 million people in Canada That equals a big market. Canadian TV stations are broadcasting to 33 million Canadians. The Raptors are not seen by Americans very often, therefore they do not generate huge ratings when they are seen on ESPN and co., and therefore they are not put on ESPN and co.

Toronto has the potential to be a big market team but they are not there yet.

I totally agree. And that big market will really become a basketball market when they have a contending team to cheer for. That's the missing piece of the puzzle right now. Bosh is fully committed to making that happen in Toronto. All this talk of him "leaving" is either paranoia from his own fan base, or wishful thinking from the fans that want someone of his calibre at the 4 on their team. ;)

fishfan79
09-22-2008, 05:05 PM
Well lets examine miami vs toronto.

Taxes in canada are horrible compared to the USA, there is a large diffference there. Add to that the difference for Florida compared to the rest of the USA. Florida does not have a state income tax like many others in the union do which makes it even more desirable.

Yes I can go into the weather (miami vs anywhere but hawaii or southern cal is a win for miami lets be honest here, there is a reason my winter is surrounded by Canadians down here. Not to mention my panthers hockey games have more people saying Zed then Z :) Not that there is anything wrong with it love their knowledge and insight into that sport for our land of less snow).

Next add to the point of Pat Riley turns centers into superstars and gets the most out of them. Lets look at his past, Shaq, Mourning, Patrick, Kareem?

Next part to consider, Wade + Bosh + B-Easy. That could be a 3some to rival any combo in the sport. Those 3 together are crazy good and could win the easy for the next decade.


Just some things to toss out there and consider.
Do I feel miami is going to sign him? I dont know honestly, but Riley wanted him in the draft more then Wade. Miam is going to have a LARGE sum of cap room and are doing everything to get cap room then to sign him or a player like him to go with Wade.

SwaggaIke
09-22-2008, 05:15 PM
Agreed, that was a biased post. Marion is in the last year of his contract in Miami, they have yet to find a PG good enough to complement Wade. Beasley will be a 25ppg player, true, but you're not going to get much out of him as he projects as a 3 more than a 4. Since when was Miami a center away from the championship? Toronto's in just as close of a position to contend for the title as almost any other team in the east. I would take Toronto right now over Miami in a heartbeat. I seem to remember not too long ago Miami won... 15 games? You're telling me that a team who finished five games worse than any other team in the league is going to be a title contender? With the east coming back to prominence, I could see them hitting .500 in a good year. Probably not good enough to get any higher than an 7-8 at best. Toronto on the other hand could go as high as 4-5 in a good year.

First off, learn to read. The English language is not one that is hard to comprehend. Nobody said Miami was a threat to ANYONE right now. I never uttered that. That man tried to make it out as if Toronto is a complete talent melting pot. While Miami has none and won't be in a position to be a threat in the future. What the hell did you call yourself reading? The only reason I even addressed the Raptors situation was because I was provoked. Stop being a yes man and read for yourself. Next, I never said we were a center away from contending for an NBA Championship. I said we were a decent center away from making a little noise. Meaning making the playoffs and giving our 1st round opponent something to look out for. A 7 game series against the Celtics or Pistons. READ. Who wouldn't take Toronto over Miami right now? That's a no brainer, something I NEVER disputed. But to say Miami has no potential, wtf. How does that sound? And why can't Chalmers be a championship FLOOR GENERAL. Nobody said he was going to be a superstar, all star or anything that would imply greatness. Derek Fisher is a CHAMPIONSHIP FLOOR GENERAL. He plays/played great defense, set the offense up and made plays when called upon. Chalmers has that same potential. Read, comprehend and then debate. You have a good evening.

SwaggaIke
09-22-2008, 05:17 PM
Well lets examine miami vs toronto.

Taxes in canada are horrible compared to the USA, there is a large diffference there. Add to that the difference for Florida compared to the rest of the USA. Florida does not have a state income tax like many others in the union do which makes it even more desirable.

Yes I can go into the weather (miami vs anywhere but hawaii or southern cal is a win for miami lets be honest here, there is a reason my winter is surrounded by Canadians down here. Not to mention my panthers hockey games have more people saying Zed then Z :) Not that there is anything wrong with it love their knowledge and insight into that sport for our land of less snow).

Next add to the point of Pat Riley turns centers into superstars and gets the most out of them. Lets look at his past, Shaq, Mourning, Patrick, Kareem?

Next part to consider, Wade + Bosh + B-Easy. That could be a 3some to rival any combo in the sport. Those 3 together are crazy good and could win the easy for the next decade.


Just some things to toss out there and consider.
Do I feel miami is going to sign him? I dont know honestly, but Riley wanted him in the draft more then Wade. Miam is going to have a LARGE sum of cap room and are doing everything to get cap room then to sign him or a player like him to go with Wade.

And this collection of facts is nothing but truth.

nikkumar84
09-22-2008, 05:24 PM
Bosh is not goin anywhere until he bring toronto to the final and win the championship. even if it take 5 or decade more years, he will remain a raptor.

Chaudhry
09-22-2008, 06:06 PM
I understand that but if you read the posts that I was referring to, the point is that American TV stations are broadcasting to 300 million people in the states and 33 million people in Canada That equals a big market. Canadian TV stations are broadcasting to 33 million Canadians. The Raptors are not seen by Americans very often, therefore they do not generate huge ratings when they are seen on ESPN and co., and therefore they are not put on ESPN and co.

Toronto has the potential to be a big market team but they are not there yet.

but someone else pointed out its 33 mill for 1 team and 300 mil for 29 teams...
if you mean bosh won't be as well known i don't think thats the case... if your talking about sponserships then your right but if sponserships were that big a deal new york would have the best team in the NBA...


Well lets examine miami vs toronto.

Taxes in canada are horrible compared to the USA, there is a large diffference there. Add to that the difference for Florida compared to the rest of the USA. Florida does not have a state income tax like many others in the union do which makes it even more desirable.

Yes I can go into the weather (miami vs anywhere but hawaii or southern cal is a win for miami lets be honest here, there is a reason my winter is surrounded by Canadians down here. Not to mention my panthers hockey games have more people saying Zed then Z :) Not that there is anything wrong with it love their knowledge and insight into that sport for our land of less snow).

Next add to the point of Pat Riley turns centers into superstars and gets the most out of them. Lets look at his past, Shaq, Mourning, Patrick, Kareem?

Next part to consider, Wade + Bosh + B-Easy. That could be a 3some to rival any combo in the sport. Those 3 together are crazy good and could win the easy for the next decade.


Just some things to toss out there and consider.
Do I feel miami is going to sign him? I dont know honestly, but Riley wanted him in the draft more then Wade. Miam is going to have a LARGE sum of cap room and are doing everything to get cap room then to sign him or a player like him to go with Wade.

again according to this website http://strickland.ca/taxes.html taxes aren't so lopsided...

about the weather what about hurricanes in miami? the only time toronto weather is deadly is if your 70+ and shoveling your driveway...

all 4 centers you mentioned were already accomplished and theres no reason to believe wouldn't be as good as they were without pat riley... now it could very well be that he helped them... but kareem was already an allstar... so was shaq... mourning was a standout in college and so was ewing...

mrblisterdundee
09-22-2008, 06:13 PM
Maybe rumors without merit should be discounted.

Sixerlover
09-22-2008, 06:16 PM
but someone else pointed out its 33 mill for 1 team and 300 mil for 29 teams...
...

Lets be real here. All 33 million people in canada aren't basketball fans. And to the ones who are fans of basketball, not all of them are raptors fans. Lakers (Kobe)/ Suns (the Nash factor) / Memphis (the old Grizzlies lure) / Pistons (people from the Wisconsion, Michigan area) / Cleveland (LeBron) all probably have a lot of fans of the basketball fans in toronto.

fishfan79
09-22-2008, 08:15 PM
but someone else pointed out its 33 mill for 1 team and 300 mil for 29 teams...
if you mean bosh won't be as well known i don't think thats the case... if your talking about sponserships then your right but if sponserships were that big a deal new york would have the best team in the NBA...



again according to this website http://strickland.ca/taxes.html taxes aren't so lopsided...

about the weather what about hurricanes in miami? the only time toronto weather is deadly is if your 70+ and shoveling your driveway...

all 4 centers you mentioned were already accomplished and theres no reason to believe wouldn't be as good as they were without pat riley... now it could very well be that he helped them... but kareem was already an allstar... so was shaq... mourning was a standout in college and so was ewing...

I have lived here 30 years never an issue, Many large stars and rich families keep houses here, I dont see them fleeing the hurricanes. Honestly places that dont get hit as often as us have alot more issues, as they arent prepared or built for it (our housing requirement is much more).

As for the centers, never know either way. But fact remains he has rarely been without an elite caliber center. I am not saying miami will go after him, or anyone for all I know they could just wanna cut themselves way below the cap for no reason or for booser or another. But just statements before of things that have been reported very often in the past.


For the taxes my point was Miami doesnt have a tax of it's own of the line that the province of Ontario does. No Estate and alot of other taxes as well down here. Overall it is cheaper then many places around to live. :D

But like said before I dont know where he goes nobody here does and if they say otherwise they are full of it. What shall come shall come

Raps18-19 Champ
09-22-2008, 08:33 PM
raptors could get 2 stars if bosh leaves in '10

Raps have bosh(about 16mil) and Jermaine(23 mil) and others(kapono,bargs etc)

so no biggie for raps but bosh actually has class and doesnt have attitude or whines like carter or mcgrady (theyre still good though)

I think bosh stays for 2-5 more years after '10
raps can sign him 17+ mill and sign a star for 10-15 mil(like ray allen, turkoglu, jefferson, johnson, redd, chandler,even jermaine)

IversonIsKrazy
09-22-2008, 08:36 PM
would u rather stay in a safe country in a safe city where u r a hero, or move to a new city where its known to have a lot of natural disasters??

fishfan79
09-22-2008, 08:46 PM
would u rather stay in a safe country in a safe city where u r a hero, or move to a new city where its known to have a lot of natural disasters??

considering Boca Raton and Palm Beach are two of the richest cities in the world and Miami Beach island communities are right up there most folks think your point is pretty insane :)

And nobody in Toronto is a hero that isnt on the Ice

Raps18-19 Champ
09-22-2008, 08:51 PM
considering Boca Raton and Palm Beach are two of the richest cities in the world and Miami Beach island communities are right up there most folks think your point is pretty insane :)

And nobody in Toronto is a hero that isnt on the Ice

Bosh might not be canadian but he's in toronto

Dol-Fan
09-22-2008, 09:36 PM
would u rather stay in a safe country in a safe city where u r a hero, or move to a new city where its known to have a lot of natural disasters??

I'd rather live in Miami, to be completely honest. Don't get me wrong, I love my city, country, etc, but how can you pass up those Miami beaches, Miami girls, Miami heat (not the basketball team), and of course my Miami Dolphins :D

Raps18-19 Champ
09-22-2008, 09:50 PM
would u rather stay in a safe country in a safe city where u r a hero, or move to a new city where its known to have a lot of natural disasters??

Actually I'd live in Miami

Toronto is way to cold in the winter

Even though Miami has alot of natural disasters, torontos overdue for a big snow storm in winter or tornado in the summer

bogdanrom
09-22-2008, 10:01 PM
I would mind either Toronto or Miami.I live in Fairfax County, VA. Second richest county in the US, but also the boringest f*c*i*g county too. I heard the drinking age in Canada is 18, and Miami's got the sexy mamas.

marvILLous
09-22-2008, 10:24 PM
I would mind either Toronto or Miami.I live in Fairfax County, VA. Second richest county in the US, but also the boringest f*c*i*g county too. I heard the drinking age in Canada is 18, and Miami's got the sexy mamas.

19 actually :D
but yeah, toronto is illin'

Dol-Fan
09-22-2008, 10:24 PM
I would mind either Toronto or Miami.I live in Fairfax County, VA. Second richest county in the US, but also the boringest f*c*i*g county too. I heard the drinking age in Canada is 18, and Miami's got the sexy mamas.

It's 19, but one province (Quebec) while it might speak french, the drinking age is 18 and within driving distance of Toronto (6 hours if I remember correctly). Canada has gorgeous girls too, the only difference is that Miami's ladies are in bikinis ;)

umh34
09-22-2008, 10:53 PM
Then why would players even sign in Toronto? Please shut up man, you're talking out of your ***.

Because you gotta get paid.

ink
09-22-2008, 11:00 PM
Maybe rumors without merit should be discounted.

I agree. Seems like some Heat fans just want to fantasize about Bosh on their team. :p

J$mo0th_3o5
09-22-2008, 11:09 PM
I agree. Seems like some Heat fans just want to fantasize about Bosh on their team. :p

Hell yea:rolleyes:

J$mo0th_3o5
09-22-2008, 11:10 PM
It's 19, but one province (Quebec) while it might speak french, the drinking age is 18 and within driving distance of Toronto (6 hours if I remember correctly). Canada has gorgeous girls too, the only difference is that Miami's ladies are in bikinis ;)

Yea the girls down here are HOT!!!:drool:

Chaudhry
09-22-2008, 11:23 PM
Lets be real here. All 33 million people in canada aren't basketball fans. And to the ones who are fans of basketball, not all of them are raptors fans. Lakers (Kobe)/ Suns (the Nash factor) / Memphis (the old Grizzlies lure) / Pistons (people from the Wisconsion, Michigan area) / Cleveland (LeBron) all probably have a lot of fans of the basketball fans in toronto.

by the same token not all 300 million americans are basketball fans... and similarly there maybe people in certain states whose favorite team is on the other cost and thus they can't watch their favorite team... my point is that raptors have their fair share of viewership... and followers...


I have lived here 30 years never an issue, Many large stars and rich families keep houses here, I dont see them fleeing the hurricanes. Honestly places that dont get hit as often as us have alot more issues, as they arent prepared or built for it (our housing requirement is much more).


well i didn't know that miami was that hurricane prepared... good to know... but i've lived in (well near) toronto for 15 years and have not only gotten used to the weather here but often look forward to winter (football in the snow is fun :up: )... and my brothers down in jacksonville and he hates the humidity there...

and the more i think about it the more i realize that considering bosh is from texas he would probably prefer warmer weather... but again for that to be a factor in his move would be very unbosh like, cause like people mentioned he's a laid back guy, id think he'd prefer consistency and job security over good weather... but i don't know bosh

fishfan79
09-23-2008, 10:13 AM
by the same token not all 300 million americans are basketball fans... and similarly there maybe people in certain states whose favorite team is on the other cost and thus they can't watch their favorite team... my point is that raptors have their fair share of viewership... and followers...



well i didn't know that miami was that hurricane prepared... good to know... but i've lived in (well near) toronto for 15 years and have not only gotten used to the weather here but often look forward to winter (football in the snow is fun :up: )... and my brothers down in jacksonville and he hates the humidity there...

and the more i think about it the more i realize that considering bosh is from texas he would probably prefer warmer weather... but again for that to be a factor in his move would be very unbosh like, cause like people mentioned he's a laid back guy, id think he'd prefer consistency and job security over good weather... but i don't know bosh

personally I think like most sports stars he follows the money :) Who knows where that will be at the time but I dont think Toronto should be ruled out they can pay him the most by the bird rule I believe.

GSRaider
09-23-2008, 11:47 AM
Bosh is coming to the Warriors

frescoelmo
09-23-2008, 06:56 PM
First off, learn to read. The English language is not one that is hard to comprehend. Nobody said Miami was a threat to ANYONE right now. I never uttered that. That man tried to make it out as if Toronto is a complete talent melting pot. While Miami has none and won't be in a position to be a threat in the future. What the hell did you call yourself reading? The only reason I even addressed the Raptors situation was because I was provoked. Stop being a yes man and read for yourself. Next, I never said we were a center away from contending for an NBA Championship. I said we were a decent center away from making a little noise. Meaning making the playoffs and giving our 1st round opponent something to look out for. A 7 game series against the Celtics or Pistons. READ. Who wouldn't take Toronto over Miami right now? That's a no brainer, something I NEVER disputed. But to say Miami has no potential, wtf. How does that sound? And why can't Chalmers be a championship FLOOR GENERAL. Nobody said he was going to be a superstar, all star or anything that would imply greatness. Derek Fisher is a CHAMPIONSHIP FLOOR GENERAL. He plays/played great defense, set the offense up and made plays when called upon. Chalmers has that same potential. Read, comprehend and then debate. You have a good evening.


My post wasn't in response to you, just my general thought about the team. Also, you should spell check your posts before you write them, a few of your sentences were a little rough to comprehend. Chalmers won a championship with 3 other players who were drafted this year; I would hope a team with 4 starting draft picks makes some noise in the big dance. You're taking this way out of proportion and it's kind of funny. You said 'a little noise' was to get in and give a 1st round opponent (namely Detroit or Boston) something to look out for. I believe in my last post I said '7th or 8th seed'. I can in fact read, you're just taking what I wrote differently than I had intended it to be. I'm sorry Dwayne Wade isn't Michael Jordan, I'm sorry he can't win 72 games in a season. It's going to be okay, have some faith. And change your pad please.

Raps18-19 Champ
09-23-2008, 07:02 PM
man just let the Heat fans dream about bosh

They wont get him in the end anyways

AFlagRules
09-23-2008, 07:05 PM
He won't be leaving anytime soon.

We've obviously made a concerted effort to make this team better. We hire the best GM in the league, we bring in a guy who was once among the best players in the league and wants to prove he still is.

At least we're not bringing in 3rd and 4th tier players like they do to a certain King and Cleveland who's most likely leaving next season.

SwaggaIke
09-23-2008, 09:02 PM
My post wasn't in response to you, just my general thought about the team. Also, you should spell check your posts before you write them, a few of your sentences were a little rough to comprehend. Chalmers won a championship with 3 other players who were drafted this year; I would hope a team with 4 starting draft picks makes some noise in the big dance. You're taking this way out of proportion and it's kind of funny. You said 'a little noise' was to get in and give a 1st round opponent (namely Detroit or Boston) something to look out for. I believe in my last post I said '7th or 8th seed'. I can in fact read, you're just taking what I wrote differently than I had intended it to be. I'm sorry Dwayne Wade isn't Michael Jordan, I'm sorry he can't win 72 games in a season. It's going to be okay, have some faith. And change your pad please.

Your post wasn't in response to me, yet you responded to every point I made in a previous paragraph. Also, don't attempt to belittle me when it comes to my sentence structure. It was such a laughable attempt that I won't defend myself against it. I didn't even bring up the fact that Chalmers won an NCAA championship. YOU DID. I said he has the potential to be a Championship caliber floor general because he defends well and can make plays when called upon. Who cares if Dwyane Wade isn't Michael Jordan, did I say he was? Who cares if he won't win 72 games in a season, who besides Jordan has? And that childish "pad" ******** went out a long time ago. Grow up bro.

Blue Tiger
09-23-2008, 10:10 PM
If this is true then I hope the big market is the Chicago Bulls since the New York Knicks sucks, the Los Angeles Laker don't need any stars and the Los Angeles Clippers are overshadowed by the Lakers.