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Mile High Champ
09-09-2008, 09:49 PM
Here is the UPDATE: We will do the poll once more, I will still include Bynum in this poll.. Though I will not take your VOTE unless you provide an argument why you are voting for that player. I supsect people are voting based on BYnum's potential and not what he has done in the league so far. If you want to vote for someone make an argument for that player, I dont want to have just homers voting for Bynum and not explaining why he is being selected. I repeat this is not based on POTENTIAL but ON SKILL and what the player is doing right now in the LEAGUE. At the bottom of your post just tell people who you voted for. Thanks for understanding!

I also had a redo after I learned THE NATION made a poll on the laker board telling people to vote for Bynum. I warned people about that in previous polls.. There is no homer garbage here. This happened with Vince and the nets froum when the SG spot was going on. Its people Like the Nation who are screwing up the results of this poll..


Hey everyone, we will be continuing the series to find a true top 10 list at each position. We are on onto the CENTERS... Jefferson was the easy winner of the third poll so we will continue on.

Like I said before, I will add more players to the list as soon as we put another guy on the top 10 list.

PS: Please do not start any threads with the same title. I am capable of conducting the polls and completing the series of threads to find the top 10 players at each position. If I need some help I will ask for it. Thanks for your time.

An updated list of the polls we have completed can be found here..
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums...89#post6524689

1) Dwight Howard
2) Yao Ming
3) Al Jefferson
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)

A Quick Note: This is a poll for who is the best center, not which center has the best potential. The best centers in the league as of right now. Thanks.

Mile High Champ
09-09-2008, 09:54 PM
I believe based on What Jermaine O'neal has done in his career and what he is capable of he will be a dominant force next to bosh in toronto. He is just as good as any player on defense in my mind. HE had a great combination of offense and defensive skills which warrant him this spot.

Jermaine O'neal

THE NATION
09-09-2008, 09:57 PM
Here is the UPDATE: We will do the poll once more, I will still include Bynum in this poll.. Though I will not take your VOTE unless you provide an argument why you are voting for that player. I supsect people are voting based on BYnum's potential and not what he has done in the league so far. If you want to vote for someone make an argument for that player, I dont want to have just homers voting for Bynum and not explaining why he is being selected. I repeat this is not based on POTENTIAL but ON SKILL and what the player is doing right now in the LEAGUE. At the bottom of your post just tell people who you voted for. Thanks for understanding!

Hey everyone, we will be continuing the series to find a true top 10 list at each position. We are on onto the CENTERS... Jefferson was the easy winner of the third poll so we will continue on.

Like I said before, I will add more players to the list as soon as we put another guy on the top 10 list.

PS: Please do not start any threads with the same title. I am capable of conducting the polls and completing the series of threads to find the top 10 players at each position. If I need some help I will ask for it. Thanks for your time.

An updated list of the polls we have completed can be found here..
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums...89#post6524689

1) Dwight Howard
2) Yao Ming
3) Al Jefferson
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)

A Quick Note: This is a poll for who is the best center, not which center has the best potential. The best centers in the league as of right now. Thanks.
Who are you to decide, Stuart Scott ? Bynum won the poll and now you want a redo. Is it that serious because nobody on this site is an expert and you want a redo. Lok at the official poll guy people... Good job man, you take pride in your work. Why don't you just say laker fans can't vote.:clap:

Yogi
09-09-2008, 09:58 PM
O'Neal because he's him, the championships and such.

nbafan19
09-09-2008, 09:58 PM
Jermaine O'neal

bogdanrom
09-09-2008, 10:00 PM
There's a lot of people who can go here, but I went with Kaman. Last year he showed that he was a good player. He averaged 15.7 PPG, 12.7 RPG, 2.8 BPG, 1.9APG. Those are pretty good stats if you ask me. He is a true center, not a PF playing C. He is 7'0. He's only 26(even though he looks like he's in his 50's), and just entering his prime. He could be a 20 and 10 guy if paired with a passing PG.

THE NATION
09-09-2008, 10:00 PM
I believe based on What Jermaine O'neal has done in his career and what he is capable of he will be a dominant force next to bosh in toronto. He is just as good as any player on defense in my mind. HE had a great combination of offense and defensive skills which warrant him this spot.

Jermaine O'neal

HAHA JO sucks and hasn't been healthy in like 3 years. Lets see you are from Canada, a Raptors fan and you pick the washed up JO. I pick Gasol he was a Center last year and he is better than JO.

Beno7500
09-09-2008, 10:00 PM
Brad Miller

da wood
09-09-2008, 10:01 PM
you know what i voted for drew because i beluieve he's better than who you have up there oh and you know that guy jo that you want at for mile high yeah him DREW KILLED HIS *** TWICE last year ask about him. and drew won the damn pole stop being bias. if lakers fans had that much damn power drew would have been ranked number 1damnit

still1ballin
09-09-2008, 10:02 PM
Andrew Bynum....when the season started last year the lakers basically had the same exact team as the 2 previous years when they got bounced by the suns in the first round with the exception of Derek Fisher. Later on the season Lakers had the best record in the Western Conference. Now you may ask how is this possible when the lakers with the same exact team 2 yrs ago were at best 7/8th seed? Did Derek Fisher make the lakers from a 7/8th team to a #1 in the WC? No, Bynum was having his breakout year and outplaying everyone he faced. He gets my vote.

da wood
09-09-2008, 10:04 PM
:clap::clap:
Brad Miller

can you explain to me why you think brad miller is the 4th best center in the league. just so you know i'm laugh my as off right now make me laugh some more please:clap::clap::clap::clap:

da wood
09-09-2008, 10:06 PM
no matter how many times you have this vote drew will win deal with it and more on

bogdanrom
09-09-2008, 10:07 PM
you know what i voted for drew because i beluieve he's better than who you have up there oh and you know that guy jo that you want at for mile high yeah him DREW KILLED HIS *** TWICE last year ask about him. and drew won the damn pole stop being bias. if lakers fans had that much damn power drew would have been ranked number 1damnit

No because Bynum wasn't one of the choices in the previous polls.

LAKERS 24/7
09-09-2008, 10:08 PM
WTF, why is that we have to explain our opinions to you?

op12
09-09-2008, 10:09 PM
kaman had a solid year and is the best true C left right now. i think the arguement could be made for big z, camby, jo, and still shaq. but kaman has been very impressive.

still1ballin
09-09-2008, 10:10 PM
WTF, why is that we have to explain our opinions to you?

Just do it bro so then non laker fans aka haters dont cry again

astrosmaniac
09-09-2008, 10:10 PM
Who are you to decide, Stuart Scott ? Bynum won the poll and now you want a redo. Is it that serious because nobody on this site is an expert and you want a redo. Lok at the official poll guy people... Good job man, you take pride in your work. Why don't you just say laker fans can't vote.:clap:

He's the one who has been running these whole serious of polls in a fair and unbiased way? they did a re-do in the voting for best player all-time because it got to the point where it was kobe VS dr. J and only a few people were giving reasons for why they voted for that player. if you can provide a GOOD argument, outside of, "well he did it for 30 games, why can;'t he do it for a full season", or "hes the future, hell be the best in 2-3 years" then we will include your vote. i said dont use those arguments because plenty of people have played played well for a period of 30 games and not continued to do that in their career, and because this is for right NOW, not the future.

anyway i went with kaman, because he has proven he can score 15+ a game, rebound 13+ in a game, and block very well, while being the ONLY offensive threat for his team. and dont say that means his stats are inflated, because that means the other team if focused on stoping you, yet he still puts up great stats

knicks1214
09-09-2008, 10:12 PM
Kaman. He averaged 16, 13, and more than 2 bpg last year. Those are very impressive numbers. Plus, he is one of the few "real" centers we have in the NBA with post moves and players who can really rebound the ball. If O'Neal stayed healthy for a little bit more in his career thus far, I would have pencilled him in before starting this vote. But, as all of you know, he has been very injury prone. I would say he probably deserves 5, if not 6, but Kaman I think is the 4th best Center in the NBA now because he fulfills the true role of center which is-score on the low post with hook shots, dunks, etc, rebound the ball, block shots, and be a pretty good passer. Thanks Mile for creating a new thread...honestly it was a bit ridiculous that Bynum was winning by a landslide because all the ignorant Lakers fans, think that he is the second coming of Kareem...He is going to be a top 3 center in a few years, but he just isn't there yet...

astrosmaniac
09-09-2008, 10:13 PM
WTF, why is that we have to explain our opinions to you?

so that we know people who are voting are going off of a players play and not name recognition. trust me, plenty of causaul fans (for all teams) vote for their player, just because they know the players name

JMan17
09-09-2008, 10:15 PM
do i have to make a long story why i think Bynum is 4th best? ok fine...

Bynum Was the 3rd option (behind odom and Kobe) during the year before he got injured. Most of the Centers that are mentioned that are arguably 4th best have been number 1 options, such as Chris Kamen when Brand was injured and the fact that Bynum beat him in the head to head match up. The other choice is Andris Biedrins. Which is a pretty good case to make for this guy but with not only beating him in points, rebounds, blocks, but also FG%. Also Bynum is a much better not only Shot blocker but better defender.

There is 1 one center what i can't believe people even mention at all, Andrew Bogut. I have never heard such bull crap about this guy before, he hardly has a post game, he puts up pretty good numbers on an less then avg team, and for a guy that was the number 1 pick and has been in the league for 3 years should at least be what he was expected to be.

Bynum has also played for 3 years but not nearly or close to as much playing time or games as much as this guy, also Bynum is 3 years younger then this guy and has put better numbers in almost every category except points (which is only by 1 point) but also doing those numbers on a better and championship contending team.

Lastly the Currant NBA is so short on centers now a days. So even if 4th best Center does sound like a GREAT CENTER, does NOT mean that the player IS a great center. If players like Bogut, the old 37 year old shaq, and kamen, and Bynum are the only ones being compared to see which is the 4th best center, then that really shows a shortage of centers.

I rate Bynum 4 because from what i have watched from this guy, and as a laker fan i have this guy more then most of the non laker fans. Which is why i argue alot of people that say either he's soft, or doesn't have a post move. Please don't confuse soft with Gasol and Ming or No post move with Howard, Because from watching Bynum, he is certainly NOT soft and certainly has a good post game.

da wood
09-09-2008, 10:15 PM
No because Bynum wasn't one of the choices in the previous polls.

you know i was wondering how al jefferson ended up ahead of drew because drew got in his *** last year when we played minni yeah i remember that game drew killed him. you know us in the laker forms were very rough on drew last year i think that first game against minni is when people started believing in drew and he was ballin till he got hurt.

Mile High Champ
09-09-2008, 10:16 PM
WTF, why is that we have to explain our opinions to you?

Because I recieved more than 100 private messages saying how ******** it was that Bynum was winning. The only fair way was for the poll to be redone and ask the users to vote once more with a reason for their pick. This allows for both parties to seek a happy medium.. If you cant make an argument, dont vote in the poll. Its that SIMPLE..

THE NATION
09-09-2008, 10:17 PM
He's the one who has been running these whole serious of polls in a fair and unbiased way? they did a re-do in the voting for best player all-time because it got to the point where it was kobe VS dr. J and only a few people were giving reasons for why they voted for that player. if you can provide a GOOD argument, outside of, "well he did it for 30 games, why can;'t he do it for a full season", or "hes the future, hell be the best in 2-3 years" then we will include your vote. i said dont use those arguments because plenty of people have played played well for a period of 30 games and not continued to do that in their career, and because this is for right NOW, not the future.

anyway i went with kaman, because he has proven he can score 15+ a game, rebound 13+ in a game, and block very well, while being the ONLY offensive threat for his team. and dont say that means his stats are inflated, because that means the other team if focused on stoping you, yet he still puts up great stats

Ok. Since Duncan and Amare are on the PF list an expert has Bynum as 4th. He was also he 3rd option on the Lakers and putting up comparable numbers and holding his own if not better head to head against a lot of the guys on the list.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?sort=per&qual=true&pos=c&seasonType=2&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fstatistics%3fsort%3dper%26qual%3dtr ue%26pos%3dc%26seasonType%3d2



1 Amare Stoudemire, PHO 79 33.9 .590 .805 .656 6.5 9.6 24.7 8.2 21.1 15.2 27.61
2 Tim Duncan, SAS 78 34.0 .497 .730 .546 12.3 10.0 25.7 10.7 28.3 19.6 24.41
3 Dwight Howard, ORL 82 37.7 .599 .590 .619 6.3 15.1 21.4 10.9 31.6 21.7 22.98
4 Al Jefferson, MIN 82 35.6 .500 .721 .535 6.2 8.8 25.1 11.9 24.7 18.1 22.80
5 Yao Ming, HOU 55 37.2 .507 .850 .587 9.6 13.6 25.1 9.6 22.9 16.4 22.61
6 Andrew Bynum, LAL 35 28.8 .636 .695 .659 13.2 11.3 16.2 12.0 26.5 19.6 22.60

knicks1214
09-09-2008, 10:17 PM
All of you ignorant Lakers fans need to realize that 40 games is a **** load different than 82 games...when he can play like that for more than 60 games and put up consistent numbers, better than Kaman's, I'll be more than happy to put him 4...one on one game totals can't be relied on...there are so many times that one player outplayed another player, but the player that was outplayed is still the better player...honestly, Lakers fans need to think outside of their secluded areas...The Nation, PER doesn't mean anything...Carl Landy was ranked 7th in PER and David West was ranked 14...that doesn't mean that Landry is the better player...

JMan17
09-09-2008, 10:18 PM
this is also beyond ridicules when you made the poll before you're self and now you redue it because you thought the votes were unfair or something like that? Like what the other guy said, Why don't you just say laker fans can't vote?

Mile High Champ
09-09-2008, 10:18 PM
He's the one who has been running these whole serious of polls in a fair and unbiased way? they did a re-do in the voting for best player all-time because it got to the point where it was kobe VS dr. J and only a few people were giving reasons for why they voted for that player. if you can provide a GOOD argument, outside of, "well he did it for 30 games, why can;'t he do it for a full season", or "hes the future, hell be the best in 2-3 years" then we will include your vote. i said dont use those arguments because plenty of people have played played well for a period of 30 games and not continued to do that in their career, and because this is for right NOW, not the future.

anyway i went with kaman, because he has proven he can score 15+ a game, rebound 13+ in a game, and block very well, while being the ONLY offensive threat for his team. and dont say that means his stats are inflated, because that means the other team if focused on stoping you, yet he still puts up great stats

Thank you, Im glad someone understands.. SOME LAKER FANS NEED TO CHILL and JUST follow the format..

astrosmaniac
09-09-2008, 10:19 PM
you know i was wondering how al jefferson ended up ahead of drew because drew got in his *** last year when we played minni yeah i remember that game drew killed him. you know us in the laker forms were very rough on drew last year i think that first game against minni is when people started believing in drew and he was ballin till he got hurt.

dont even say that bynum is better than al jeff, dont even. thats 1 game. 1 game head to head is BS compared to someone who has better all around stats and did it for a WHOLE season

Mile High Champ
09-09-2008, 10:20 PM
this is also beyond ridicules when you made the poll before you're self and now you redue it because you thought the votes were unfair or something like that? Like what the other guy said, Why don't you just say laker fans can't vote?

If you dont like it, than dont post, dont vote. ITS THAT SIMPLE.. I wanted to make it fair for everyone. Every other poll had no problems what so ever but now with Bynum there maybe something. I want to avoid the casual homer voting just because a player is on their fav team. Back off..

knicks1214
09-09-2008, 10:20 PM
BTW Mile, this way is by far the best way to sort out who the 4th best center really is...it shows that people with actual basketball knowledge can determine the way the vote goes rather than people just voting for their hometown player...and btw the Lakers are my second favorite team so I'm not saying all the *** towards Bynum because I hate the Lakers...@Astronmanic, it's nice to see someone who agrees that head to heads don't mean anything...

astrosmaniac
09-09-2008, 10:20 PM
Ok. Since Duncan and Amare are on the PF list an expert has Bynum as 4th. He was also he 3rd option on the Lakers and putting up comparable numbers and holding his own if not better head to head against a lot of the guys on the list.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?sort=per&qual=true&pos=c&seasonType=2&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fstatistics%3fsort%3dper%26qual%3dtr ue%26pos%3dc%26seasonType%3d2



1 Amare Stoudemire, PHO 79 33.9 .590 .805 .656 6.5 9.6 24.7 8.2 21.1 15.2 27.61
2 Tim Duncan, SAS 78 34.0 .497 .730 .546 12.3 10.0 25.7 10.7 28.3 19.6 24.41
3 Dwight Howard, ORL 82 37.7 .599 .590 .619 6.3 15.1 21.4 10.9 31.6 21.7 22.98
4 Al Jefferson, MIN 82 35.6 .500 .721 .535 6.2 8.8 25.1 11.9 24.7 18.1 22.80
5 Yao Ming, HOU 55 37.2 .507 .850 .587 9.6 13.6 25.1 9.6 22.9 16.4 22.61
6 Andrew Bynum, LAL 35 28.8 .636 .695 .659 13.2 11.3 16.2 12.0 26.5 19.6 22.60

PER isnt the only stat that determines how good a player is

bogdanrom
09-09-2008, 10:21 PM
you know i was wondering how al jefferson ended up ahead of drew because drew got in his *** last year when we played minni yeah i remember that game drew killed him. you know us in the laker forms were very rough on drew last year i think that first game against minni is when people started believing in drew and he was ballin till he got hurt.

I do give Bynum credit though. Almost everyone was against him when he came, especially to the Lakers and the comparisons to Shaq, which he will never be. But he has pulled through, and he has a very bright future. But right now I'll give the nod to Kaman.

PS Why do some people compare what players did against the other. And if Bynum did so good against the other best big men doesn't it mean that the worse player dominated Bynum. Just asking. :shrug:By the way it's not direct to da wood. It's for everyone to answer.

JMan17
09-09-2008, 10:22 PM
If you dont like it, than dont post, dont vote. ITS THAT SIMPLE.. I wanted to make it fair for everyone. Every other poll had no problems what so ever but now with Bynum there maybe something. I want to avoid the casual homer voting just because a player is on their fav team. Back off..

i just posted my very long reason why it's bynum, read it :)

Mile High Champ
09-09-2008, 10:23 PM
BTW Mile, this way is by far the best way to sort out who the 4th best center really is...it shows that people with actual basketball knowledge can determine the way the vote goes rather than people just voting for their hometown player...and btw the Lakers are my second favorite team so I'm not saying all the *** towards Bynum because I hate the Lakers...@Astronmanic, it's nice to see someone who agrees that head to heads don't mean anything...

Thanks, yeah I think this was the only fair way of getting the list done. Every other poll had no problems. I want this to be accurate and not have it be a popularity contest..

Cheers

Mile High Champ
09-09-2008, 10:24 PM
i just posted my very long reason why it's bynum, read it :)

if you can make an argument not based on potential, the vote is fine. Just post an argument or reason that is somewhat intelligent and the vote counts... Thanks..


cheers

JMan17
09-09-2008, 10:26 PM
if you can make an argument not based on potential, the vote is fine. Just post an argument or reason that is somewhat intelligent and the vote counts... Thanks..


cheers

ill post it again just in case you did not catch the post...

do i have to make a long story why i think Bynum is 4th best? ok fine...

Bynum Was the 3rd option (behind odom and Kobe) during the year before he got injured. Most of the Centers that are mentioned that are arguably 4th best have been number 1 options, such as Chris Kamen when Brand was injured and the fact that Bynum beat him in the head to head match up. The other choice is Andris Biedrins. Which is a pretty good case to make for this guy but with not only beating him in points, rebounds, blocks, but also FG%. Also Bynum is a much better not only Shot blocker but better defender.

There is 1 one center what i can't believe people even mention at all, Andrew Bogut. I have never heard such bull crap about this guy before, he hardly has a post game, he puts up pretty good numbers on an less then avg team, and for a guy that was the number 1 pick and has been in the league for 3 years should at least be what he was expected to be.

Bynum has also played for 3 years but not nearly or close to as much playing time or games as much as this guy, also Bynum is 3 years younger then this guy and has put better numbers in almost every category except points (which is only by 1 point) but also doing those numbers on a better and championship contending team.

Lastly the Currant NBA is so short on centers now a days. So even if 4th best Center does sound like a GREAT CENTER, does NOT mean that the player IS a great center. If players like Bogut, the old 37 year old shaq, and kamen, and Bynum are the only ones being compared to see which is the 4th best center, then that really shows a shortage of centers.

I rate Bynum 4 because from what i have watched from this guy, and as a laker fan i have this guy more then most of the non laker fans. Which is why i argue alot of people that say either he's soft, or doesn't have a post move. Please don't confuse soft with Gasol and Ming or No post move with Howard, Because from watching Bynum, he is certainly NOT soft and certainly has a good post game.

THE NATION
09-09-2008, 10:26 PM
PER isnt the only stat that determines how good a player is

And this little psd poll is?

knicks1214
09-09-2008, 10:27 PM
Bogut actually has a good 15 foot and in game. He even hit a few 3 pointers in the Olympics where 3 points are 20 feet. Bogut has nice post moves including a hook shot and a pretty good drop step...I would say that more than 80% of Bynums points came off Dunks or put backs...those are not post moves. And to the person who said that Bynum is a better shot blocker, how do you explain that Kaman averaged more blocks than Bynum?

bogdanrom
09-09-2008, 10:28 PM
And this little psd poll is?

Exactly. Why are people getting so pissed off about a poll. It's basically a popularity contest.

astrosmaniac
09-09-2008, 10:29 PM
do i have to make a long story why i think Bynum is 4th best? ok fine...

Bynum Was the 3rd option (behind odom and Kobe) during the year before he got injured. Most of the Centers that are mentioned that are arguably 4th best have been number 1 options, such as Chris Kamen when Brand was injured and the fact that Bynum beat him in the head to head match up. The other choice is Andris Biedrins. Which is a pretty good case to make for this guy but with not only beating him in points, rebounds, blocks, but also FG%. Also Bynum is a much better not only Shot blocker but better defender.

There is 1 one center what i can't believe people even mention at all, Andrew Bogut. I have never heard such bull crap about this guy before, he hardly has a post game, he puts up pretty good numbers on an less then avg team, and for a guy that was the number 1 pick and has been in the league for 3 years should at least be what he was expected to be.

Bynum has also played for 3 years but not nearly or close to as much playing time or games as much as this guy, also Bynum is 3 years younger then this guy and has put better numbers in almost every category except points (which is only by 1 point) but also doing those numbers on a better and championship contending team.

Lastly the Currant NBA is so short on centers now a days. So even if 4th best Center does sound like a GREAT CENTER, does NOT mean that the player IS a great center. If players like Bogut, the old 37 year old shaq, and kamen, and Bynum are the only ones being compared to see which is the 4th best center, then that really shows a shortage of centers.

I rate Bynum 4 because from what i have watched from this guy, and as a laker fan i have this guy more then most of the non laker fans. Which is why i argue alot of people that say either he's soft, or doesn't have a post move. Please don't confuse soft with Gasol and Ming or No post move with Howard, Because from watching Bynum, he is certainly NOT soft and certainly has a good post game.

@ the last paragraph. i honestly dont think anyone in this thread has made an argument that he has no post game or is soft

Also bynum has been in the league for 3 years. in the year before last, he played 82 games and didnt do near what he did in this last year. so he hasnt done anything with CONSISTANCY. if he put up numbers like last year in the year before that, but got hurt last year, then id be voting for him, but he hasnt shown that conistancy

Mile High Champ
09-09-2008, 10:29 PM
And this little psd poll is?

I also had a redo after I learned THE NATION made a poll on the laker board telling people to vote for Bynum. I warned people about that in previous polls.. There is no homer garbage here. This happened with Vince and the nets froum when the SG spot was going on. Its people Like the Nation who are screwing up the results of this poll..

THE NATION
09-09-2008, 10:30 PM
Exactly. Why are people getting so pissed off about a poll. It's basically a popularity contest.

Ok, so Bynum won.

THE NATION
09-09-2008, 10:31 PM
I also had a redo after I learned THE NATION made a poll on the laker board telling people to vote for Bynum. I warned people about that in previous polls.. There is no homer garbage here. This happened with Vince and the nets froum when the SG spot was going on. Its people Like the Nation who are screwing up the results of this poll..
Ok J.A. Adande

astrosmaniac
09-09-2008, 10:32 PM
And this little psd poll is?

no, but you can look at other stats and circumstances to determine that. Like the other poster said, landry had the 7th best PER for PFs while David West had the 14th. does anyone here honestly believe that landry is a better player than west? i dont, and im a die hard rockets fan

da wood
09-09-2008, 10:32 PM
I do give Bynum credit though. Almost everyone was against him when he came, especially to the Lakers and the comparisons to Shaq, which he will never be. But he has pulled through, and he has a very bright future. But right now I'll give the nod to Kaman.

PS Why do some people compare what players did against the other. And if Bynum did so good against the other best big men doesn't it mean that the worse player dominated Bynum. Just asking. :shrug:By the way it's not direct to da wood. It's for everyone to answer.

no it just means that he wasn't getting owned last year actually the only player that owned him was that tandom in boston but the same way they teamed up on drew is how they teamed up on pau thats why everyone thing with pau and drew together it will be a better series next time. buyt back to this #4 stuff. yeah drew even shut ya boy timmie down when he matched up against him. that was the worst i had ever seen him play. oh and he killed amare i mean shut his *** down big time last year the first time he did that everyone in the lakers form was like aw he got lucky that time but then he did it again we were like wow. we really got something here.

knicks1214
09-09-2008, 10:32 PM
If people in the Lakers forum actually told other people to vote for Bynum, then the voting was rigged...it has to be redone and people with actual basketball knowledge now have a chance to show how much they know and make a point rather than being outdone by Lakers fans who think that every player on their team is the best at whatever position they play...da wood...head to head comparisons do not mean anything...get that through your think head...

Mile High Champ
09-09-2008, 10:32 PM
Ok J.A. Adande

No worries Rookie..

bogdanrom
09-09-2008, 10:33 PM
Ok, so Bynum won.

I don't mind. Arenas was chosen as the 8th best PG and I didn't get mad or upset and PM anyone saying this was stupid. You can argue and try to prove your results. I still think Kaman is better than Bynum right now.

astrosmaniac
09-09-2008, 10:35 PM
Ok J.A. Adande

that is low to make a poll about getting your fans to vote for a player. apparently some idiot did that in the rockets forum during the WCF voting (although i never saw the thread) and all the lakers fans got pissed, so we have a right to complain about what you did

also if this is "just a little poll" why go to the extremes to cheat and post in the lakers forum to vote for bynum?

BillyHoyle35
09-09-2008, 10:38 PM
i voted Kaman since he showed what he could be last season and has been a solid center before then. He can play both ends of the court well. A very very good rebounder as well as good shot blocker. The offensive end he can use either hand around the basket equally well, developing his jumper with a little more range and is actually quite quick and agile for a true 7"0' center.

He put up good numbers last season which were quite impressive especially on what was a rather weak team which meant he faced more double teams and with little outside shooting he faced a clogged middle.

da wood
09-09-2008, 10:39 PM
@ the last paragraph. i honestly dont think anyone in this thread has made an argument that he has no post game or is soft

Also bynum has been in the league for 3 years. in the year before last, he played 82 games and didnt do near what he did in this last year. so he hasnt done anything with CONSISTANCY. if he put up numbers like last year in the year before that, but got hurt last year, then id be voting for him, but he hasnt shown that conistancy

if thats the case yall gotta stop all this he hasn't don it consistantly and all that mess because other players i'm not saying any name yao or jo or shaq or kaman either arent putting up numbers any more or hadn't put numbers up for some time and you have the ones that can't play at a high level because they are injury prone. so make a choice. but don't waste everyones time because you don't agree with who everyone voted in because when nation made that thread in the lakers form adrew already had more votes than anybody not named bynum had when you closed the damnn thread

BowDown32
09-09-2008, 10:41 PM
How come no one is giving Marcus Camby any love? He is a defensive force more than any of the guys on this list, former defensive player of the year like what 2 or 3 years ago? He blocks shots, rebounds the basketball and although his shot is ugly as #$%^ he can still hit the 15 foot jimmy. What else do you want from a centre? He gets more rebounds and just as many blocks as anyone on this list. Just wait and see how bad Denver is this year. Kaman is gonna learn some things from Marcus.

ARMIN12NBA
09-09-2008, 10:43 PM
Andrew Bynum. I have explained why in the previous #4 thread so I will just copy and paste some stats I threw around there.

Andrew Bynum against Bogut:

25 points, 17 rebounds, 3 blocked shots, 77% shooting

Andrew Bynum against Amare:

28 points, 12 rebounds, 2 blocked shots, 85% shooting

14 points, 13 rebounds, 1 blocked shot, 70% shooting

Andrew Bynum against Andris Biedrins:

20 points, 11 rebounds, 5 blocked shots, 65% shooting

17 points, 16 rebounds, 1 blocked shot, 80% shooting

Andrew Bynum against Marcus Camby:

12 points, 13 rebounds, 1 blocked shot, 63% shooting

Andrew Bynum against Chris Kaman:

14 points, 9 rebounds, 6 blocked shots, 79% shooting

Andrew Bynum against Jermaine O'neal:

17 points, 10 rebounds, 4 blocked shots, 100% shooting (Jermaine shot 30%)

Andrew Bynum against Samuel Dalembert:

17 points, 16 rebounds, 3 blocked shots, 75% shooting

still1ballin
09-09-2008, 10:44 PM
No worries Rookie..

Flaming.

da wood
09-09-2008, 10:45 PM
so tell me this how many people really voted for bynum alread in which you haven't counted there vote mile high because i counted more than 5 laker fans inhere that expressed bynum and he's only at 5 hum something is fishy

THE NATION
09-09-2008, 10:45 PM
No worries Rookie..

HAHA from a guy that has been here for 5 months and thinks he works for the Toronto Star.

astrosmaniac
09-09-2008, 10:48 PM
if thats the case yall gotta stop all this he hasn't don it consistantly and all that mess because other players i'm not saying any name yao or jo or shaq or kaman either arent putting up numbers any more or hadn't put numbers up for some time and you have the ones that can't play at a high level because they are injury prone. so make a choice. but don't waste everyones time because you don't agree with who everyone voted in because when nation made that thread in the lakers form adrew already had more votes than anybody not named bynum had when you closed the damnn thread

im not saying that bynum doesnt deserve it JUST because he got injured. im saying that he hasnt done it for more than 30 games. Yao, JO, and Shaq have all done it for years, and camby has been big ever since brand was out and even before that he was showing up well. Im saying that before bynum got injured, he had been in the league for 2 years and 30 games. he only showed what he could do for the last 30. once hes showed it for more than that, ill vote him 4, but not before that

ugafan
09-09-2008, 10:49 PM
Id take 5 centers remaining over Bynum at least.

NYstateofMinD
09-09-2008, 10:49 PM
I'm going to have to go with Shaq on this one. One on One he is still a force to be reckoned with. He commands double teams even at his age. His huge frame takes up space and he boxes out well, which then helps other players get rebounds. He is a terrible defender but he does change shots in the paint no matter what. He averaged 13.6 ppg, 9.1 rb, 1.4 blks in just 28.7 minutes. In Phoenix he was the 4th scoring option behind Amare, Barbosa, and Nash. Bynum was 2nd or 3rd and he had similar stats. Even at 36 Shaq isn't dominant but is still a heck of a player.

astrosmaniac
09-09-2008, 10:50 PM
HAHA from a guy that has been here for 5 months and thinks he works for the Toronto Star.

HAHA from the guy who has only 100 something post, and about 40 of them were in this forum or the old #4 center thread

knicks1214
09-09-2008, 10:51 PM
Armin head to heads mean nothing...

da wood
09-09-2008, 10:51 PM
:mad:
Because I recieved more than 100 private messages saying how ******** it was that Bynum was winning. The only fair way was for the poll to be redone and ask the users to vote once more with a reason for their pick. This allows for both parties to seek a happy medium.. If you cant make an argument, dont vote in the poll. Its that SIMPLE..

you know thats some bull mile high drew had 30 percent of the votes of course you will have haters that what people do but drew was more than doubled up on everyone else.:mad:

da wood
09-09-2008, 10:52 PM
you i just noticed something nodies given that many explinations for jo so why do he have that many votes already whats the real deal mile high

still1ballin
09-09-2008, 10:52 PM
HAHA from a guy that has been here for 5 months and thinks he works for the Toronto Star.

Jeez!:speechless: 5 months and has 2,000+ posts! damn ive been here since march 07 and i only got 1,200 posts lol

ARMIN12NBA
09-09-2008, 10:54 PM
Armin head to heads mean nothing...

I explained that I gave my argument already and didn't feel like repeating it because some people disagree with the vote (I didn't realize that if people were upset then you can redo a voting). I said I was only going to copy and paste some stats and you can take it for what its worth. The fact is, is that Bynum dominates the centers he plays against. Read my post first then post on your own.

THE NATION
09-09-2008, 10:56 PM
HAHA from the guy who has only 100 something post, and about 40 of them were in this forum or the old #4 center thread

What are you his sidekick, dumb and dumber??

Vinny642
09-09-2008, 10:56 PM
I think Kaman should be it defintley, he is good posting he always brings the numbers. he isn't injury prone and he plays more then 50 games a season

ARMIN12NBA
09-09-2008, 10:57 PM
Because I recieved more than 100 private messages saying how ******** it was that Bynum was winning. The only fair way was for the poll to be redone and ask the users to vote once more with a reason for their pick. This allows for both parties to seek a happy medium.. If you cant make an argument, dont vote in the poll. Its that SIMPLE..

People say Laker fans are bias. Look at the outrage for the simple vote of Bynum, which happened to be a fair vote. There are more bias against the Lakers if anything.

BTW--Just because people are upset, it doesn't mean that you go on and redo and redo it. Many people are upset about 2000 and 2004 and there was no redo (if only). People are always upset with any vote. Now the Lakers fans are going to send you a 100 private messages about how it is unfair that Bynum wins and then people band against him so he can lose. Lose-Lose, huh?

astrosmaniac
09-09-2008, 10:59 PM
What are you his sidekick, dumb and dumber??

no ur just an idiot. you questioned him for only being here for 5 months, but uve only been here for less than 1. also, he is one of the most active posters on this site, and has proved to be (for the most part) an unbaised, intelligent poster

da wood
09-09-2008, 11:01 PM
If people in the Lakers forum actually told other people to vote for Bynum, then the voting was rigged...it has to be redone and people with actual basketball knowledge now have a chance to show how much they know and make a point rather than being outdone by Lakers fans who think that every player on their team is the best at whatever position they play...da wood...head to head comparisons do not mean anything...get that through your think head...

what do you mean it mean nothing if i go to the gym and we are playing pick up basketball and everyone knows you own me you best believe they gonna pick you first thats all i'm saying drew own these people i say that because like everyone say drew is our 3 option so its a limit to how much he can contribute. where as you get a kaman or a al jefferson and everything is run through them and don't give me that corey megetti stuff because he came off the bench most of last year. thats all i'm saying though

astrosmaniac
09-09-2008, 11:02 PM
I explained that I gave my argument already and didn't feel like repeating it because some people disagree with the vote (I didn't realize that if people were upset then you can redo a voting). I said I was only going to copy and paste some stats and you can take it for what its worth. The fact is, is that Bynum dominates the centers he plays against. Read my post first then post on your own.


People say Laker fans are bias. Look at the outrage for the simple vote of Bynum, which happened to be a fair vote. There are more bias against the Lakers if anything.

BTW--Just because people are upset, it doesn't mean that you go on and redo and redo it. Many people are upset about 2000 and 2004 and there was no redo (if only). People are always upset with any vote. Now the Lakers fans are going to send you a 100 private messages about how it is unfair that Bynum wins and then people band against him so he can lose. Lose-Lose, huh?

hes re-doing the vote becuase of the fact that the nation posted this in the lakers forum
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=269061
also, did you notice that only about 20-25 voters stated they voted for bynum, and only about 10 said WHY, yet he had over 50 votes, somethings not right there man

still1ballin
09-09-2008, 11:03 PM
no ur just an idiot. you questioned him for only being here for 5 months, but uve only been here for less than 1. also, he is one of the most active posters on this site, and has proved to be (for the most part) an unbaised, intelligent poster

Flamer

ARMIN12NBA
09-09-2008, 11:03 PM
hes re-doing the vote becuase of the fact that the nation posted this in the lakers forum
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=269061
also, did you notice that only about 20-25 voters stated they voted for bynum, and only about 10 said WHY, yet he had over 50 votes, somethings not right there man

He never said that...He said it was because of a bunch of angry PSD posters who were sending him messages.

THE NATION
09-09-2008, 11:04 PM
no ur just an idiot. you questioned him for only being here for 5 months, but uve only been here for less than 1. also, he is one of the most active posters on this site, and has proved to be (for the most part) an unbaised, intelligent poster
Whatever you say Chachi.

Vinny642
09-09-2008, 11:04 PM
People say Laker fans are bias. Look at the outrage for the simple vote of Bynum, which happened to be a fair vote. There are more bias against the Lakers if anything.

BTW--Just because people are upset, it doesn't mean that you go on and redo and redo it. Many people are upset about 2000 and 2004 and there was no redo (if only). People are always upset with any vote. Now the Lakers fans are going to send you a 100 private messages about how it is unfair that Bynum wins and then people band against him so he can lose. Lose-Lose, huh?

DUDE Bynum isn't top 5 for several reasons... one his stats arent that great, he is offensively challenged, he didn't last the season. For all we know he can be a one year wonder

astrosmaniac
09-09-2008, 11:04 PM
what do you mean it mean nothing if i go to the gym and we are playing pick up basketball and everyone knows you own me you best believe they gonna pick you first thats all i'm saying drew own these people i say that because like everyone say drew is our 3 option so its a limit to how much he can contribute. where as you get a kaman or a al jefferson and everything is run through them and don't give me that corey megetti stuff because he came off the bench most of last year. thats all i'm saying though

your right, jefferson and kaman were number one options. in fact, they were the only options, so defense's focused on stopping them all game, where people are focused on kobe so bynum gets better shots because teams are trying to stop kobe, not bynum

Vinny642
09-09-2008, 11:05 PM
He never said that...He said it was because of a bunch of angry PSD posters who were sending him messages.

I was one of those people

knicks1214
09-09-2008, 11:05 PM
If I continue to own u then they obviously will pick me first. But if I have only one good game in head to head compairison then bc head to head stats are usless, picking me would be stupid. Look at his season stats and how he contributed in every signel game bynum played...there is a reason why kamans stats are better.

da wood
09-09-2008, 11:07 PM
im not saying that bynum doesnt deserve it JUST because he got injured. im saying that he hasnt done it for more than 30 games. Yao, JO, and Shaq have all done it for years, and camby has been big ever since brand was out and even before that he was showing up well. Im saying that before bynum got injured, he had been in the league for 2 years and 30 games. he only showed what he could do for the last 30. once hes showed it for more than that, ill vote him 4, but not before that

are you for real. i thought this pole was about what the player is doing now not what they did in the past because if that were the case shaq would win this pole hands down but shaq aint **** now, jo ain't been **** now for about three years or since ron ron left indy. yao is hurt damn near every year and camby is hurt all the time too i think this past year was like the second or third year in which he played the full year or close to it. so don't give me that.

astrosmaniac
09-09-2008, 11:07 PM
He never said that...He said it was because of a bunch of angry PSD posters who were sending him messages.

he said that later on in the thread.

and dont call me a flamer and let him slide. he insults both me and milehigh and i responded

also to the nation, dont make a comment on why someone should be discredited if you A) cant back it up, B) if hes not worth listening to because of his time since he joined the site, then why should we listen to you, youve een here even less

still1ballin
09-09-2008, 11:10 PM
ROFL, I find it extremely pathetic that many people including Vinny642 to send messages to Mile High to re-do the vote because you guys were upset because bynum won for w/e reason. That is childish to do that. It is just a meaningless poll guys. Like I said before, there was a poll awhile back of the best trio and the trio of the rockets (tmac/artest/yao) had way more votes then the lakers trio (kobe/odom/pau) when the rockets trio haven't played a single game together. Did you see the laker fans sending messages to the person who made the poll to change it? It is just childish guys to do that.

astrosmaniac
09-09-2008, 11:10 PM
are you for real. i thought this pole was about what the player is doing now not what they did in the past because if that were the case shaq would win this pole hands down but shaq aint **** now, jo ain't been **** now for about three years or since ron ron left indy. yao is hurt damn near every year and camby is hurt all the time too i think this past year was like the second or third year in which he played the full year or close to it. so don't give me that.

What im saying (at l;east for yao and JO) is that even though they were hurt last year, they have been consistant and you know they will put up great numbers. bynum we dont know that

da wood
09-09-2008, 11:11 PM
no ur just an idiot. you questioned him for only being here for 5 months, but uve only been here for less than 1. also, he is one of the most active posters on this site, and has proved to be (for the most part) an unbaised, intelligent poster

well i've been here for longer that all of you but i'm not complaining about that i'm upset because mile high let people in his ear have him do a pole over where the winner was clear cut.

astrosmaniac
09-09-2008, 11:11 PM
ROFL, I find it extremely pathetic that many people including Vinny642 to send messages to Mile High to re-do the vote because you guys were upset because bynum won for w/e reason. That is childish to do that. It is just a meaningless poll guys. Like I said before, there was a poll awhile back of the best trio and the trio of the rockets (tmac/artest/yao) had way more votes then the lakers trio (kobe/odom/pau) when the rockets trio haven't played a single game together. Did you see the laker fans sending messages to the person who made the poll to change it? It is just childish guys to do that.

but he made a poll to help rigg the voting
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=269061
supposedly this happened in the rockets forum for the WCF voting and if i remember right, you were one of the people upset about it

still1ballin
09-09-2008, 11:12 PM
he said that later on in the thread.

and dont call me a flamer and let him slide. he insults both me and milehigh and i responded

also to the nation, dont make a comment on why someone should be discredited if you A) cant back it up, B) if hes not worth listening to because of his time since he joined the site, then why should we listen to you, youve een here even less

LOL sorry, I have been just uptight ever since JordanBulls gave me an infraction of "baiting" because i said "HATING AT ITS BEST" lol

astrosmaniac
09-09-2008, 11:12 PM
well i've been here for longer that all of you but i'm not complaining about that i'm upset because mile high let people in his ear have him do a pole over where the winner was clear cut.

im defending mile high because the nation is claiming that we should listen to mile high because hes been here for 5 months when hes been here less than a month

still1ballin
09-09-2008, 11:13 PM
but he made a poll to help rigg the voting
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=269061
supposedly this happened in the rockets forum for the WCF voting and if i remember right, you were one of the people upset about it


can you show me?

da wood
09-09-2008, 11:14 PM
hes re-doing the vote becuase of the fact that the nation posted this in the lakers forum
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=269061
also, did you notice that only about 20-25 voters stated they voted for bynum, and only about 10 said WHY, yet he had over 50 votes, somethings not right there man

no he said it was because he had recieved like 100 messeges from people complain that a crock of **** right there

THE NATION
09-09-2008, 11:15 PM
your right, jefferson and kaman were number one options. in fact, they were the only options, so defense's focused on stopping them all game, where people are focused on kobe so bynum gets better shots because teams are trying to stop kobe, not bynum

Acually when tha Lakers played those teams they didn't double Kaman or Jefferson, Bynum or Gasol played them straigt man.

da wood
09-09-2008, 11:17 PM
I was one of those people

now thats some punk stuff right there something like being a snitch did you used to tell the teach because you saw someone cut in line this is crazy people

astrosmaniac
09-09-2008, 11:17 PM
can you show me?
maybe it wasnt you but there are sooo many people with that avatar that i get confused, but there were several lakersfans POed about the same thing the nation did

no he said it was because he had recieved like 100 messeges from people complain that a crock of **** right there
the proof is right below this

I also had a redo after I learned THE NATION made a poll on the laker board telling people to vote for Bynum. I warned people about that in previous polls.. There is no homer garbage here. This happened with Vince and the nets froum when the SG spot was going on. Its people Like the Nation who are screwing up the results of this poll..

da wood
09-09-2008, 11:19 PM
If I continue to own u then they obviously will pick me first. But if I have only one good game in head to head compairison then bc head to head stats are usless, picking me would be stupid. Look at his season stats and how he contributed in every signel game bynum played...there is a reason why kamans stats are better.

what i'm saying is this is a pole about the here and now. and its not like he was doing it against a couple of people he was doing it against just about everyone he went up against.

astrosmaniac
09-09-2008, 11:20 PM
Acually when tha Lakers played those teams they didn't double Kaman or Jefferson, Bynum or Gasol played them straigt man.

i was talking over the course of the season, not against the lakers specificly. if you were the head coach who on the clippers would you worry about more than kaman last year? same with jefferson on the t-wolves?

da wood
09-09-2008, 11:21 PM
If I continue to own u then they obviously will pick me first. But if I have only one good game in head to head compairison then bc head to head stats are usless, picking me would be stupid. Look at his season stats and how he contributed in every signel game bynum played...there is a reason why kamans stats are better.

and kamans numbers were beter i bet he put up more shots and he also get this he was there go to man and they ran there offense through him i bet you if drew played for the clips he would give you like 28 and 15 and you can quote me on that one

madiaz3
09-09-2008, 11:24 PM
Bynum
Exceptional numbers but what most impressed me was his roughly 65% FG%.

He doesn't get dominated by other centers and his worst night will be a 10-10.

da wood
09-09-2008, 11:25 PM
What im saying (at l;east for yao and JO) is that even though they were hurt last year, they have been consistant and you know they will put up great numbers. bynum we dont know that

no yao is hurt all the time and jo has been hurt for the past couple of years so you don't know what he can give you listen to yourself you kinda sound like you don't know what you are talking about

astrosmaniac
09-09-2008, 11:26 PM
and kamans numbers were beter i bet he put up more shots and he also get this he was there go to man and they ran there offense through him i bet you if drew played for the clips he would give you like 28 and 15 and you can quote me on that one

not even players like dwight, who do get the offense run through them, average close to that. thats the equivalent of saying that bynum>dwight :pity: jk about the :pity: part

astrosmaniac
09-09-2008, 11:28 PM
no yao is hurt all the time and jo has been hurt for the past couple of years so you don't know what he can give you listen to yourself you kinda sound like you don't know what you are talking about

dude, you know yao will give you 22, 12, on a good % year in and year out. and you know JO will give you 18 and 10, bynum could give you what he gave you last year or the stuff from the year before, so you really dont know

SeoulBeatz
09-09-2008, 11:31 PM
and kamans numbers were beter i bet he put up more shots and he also get this he was there go to man and they ran there offense through him i bet you if drew played for the clips he would give you like 28 and 15 and you can quote me on that one



i agree that bynum is a solid player but.... 28 and 15.... cmon now... thats just plain ********, no big man let alone Andrew Bynum even averaged 28 and 15 last season, so how would Bynum magically achieve this feat?

please keep the homerism to urself.

i think he IS currently better than shaq, but not better than Kaman or Jermaine Oneal. Hence he SHOULD be #6


jesus 28 and 15, i just had a good laugh.

da wood
09-09-2008, 11:31 PM
im defending mile high because the nation is claiming that we should listen to mile high because hes been here for 5 months when hes been here less than a month

but why are we even talking about how long anybody has been here and i thing he was reffering to the fact that mile high let people get into his head to restart something that was finished oh and i saw that post in the laker forum and it had like 5 post on it and there were talking about nothing. so don't make it seem like he mustered everyone up and we all crashed the damn poles

ttam68
09-09-2008, 11:32 PM
Bynum...again.

13 pts, 10 reb, 2 blocks, 65% shooting in under 30 mpg as the 4th option.

:'(

hdxstunts1
09-09-2008, 11:33 PM
Kaman is a very underrated center. He is great. Rebounds and Scores for you big #'s daily.

da wood
09-09-2008, 11:34 PM
not even players like dwight, who do get the offense run through them, average close to that. thats the equivalent of saying that bynum>dwight :pity: jk about the :pity: part

thats because dwight does not have any post moves do you watch basketball or look at box scores man:clap::confused:

DODGERS&LAKERS
09-09-2008, 11:34 PM
Bynum
Exceptional numbers but what most impressed me was his roughly 65% FG%.

He doesn't get dominated by other centers and his worst night will be a 10-10.

Ditto. Bynum has not been out played by any of those guys and has outplayed some of them. Jermaine Oneal, Kaman, and Amare would vote for Bynum based on what he did to them. I vote for Bynum

astrosmaniac
09-09-2008, 11:34 PM
but why are we even talking about how long anybody has been here and i thing he was reffering to the fact that mile high let people get into his head to restart something that was finished oh and i saw that post in the laker forum and it had like 5 post on it and there were talking about nothing. so don't make it seem like he mustered everyone up and we all crashed the damn poles

hey, the nation is the one who brought up the amount of time on the site, i was simply defending mile high champ by refuting his point. alos the thread only had 5 posts because someone (TM or Mod) was smart enough to close it. doesnt mean it stoped people from going there, seing the link, and then voting just because hes a laker

astrosmaniac
09-09-2008, 11:37 PM
thats because dwight does not have any post moves do you watch basketball or look at box scores man:clap::confused:

yes, but anyone who thinks bynum is better thand DWight is Crazy or the biggest homer in the universe. yao has post moves, he doesnt put up those numbers, same with al jeff. face it, no big man in recent history (4-5 years) have put up those numbers

da wood
09-09-2008, 11:39 PM
i agree that bynum is a solid player but.... 28 and 15.... cmon now... thats just plain ********, no big man let alone Andrew Bynum even averaged 28 and 15 last season, so how would Bynum magically achieve this feat?

please keep the homerism to urself.

i think he IS currently better than shaq, but not better than Kaman or Jermaine Oneal. Hence he SHOULD be #6


jesus 28 and 15, i just had a good laugh.

you act like its never been done before give me a break if someone had the will and work ethic trust its getting done and i'm say if drew is all a team has then why is that so far stretched remember he also had odom rebounding just ting if them balls were loose i think drew could get at least 5 of odoms boards and as for scoring he alreadty had the highest fg% when he went down give him the touches and i think he can get very close to 28 if not more you will say well teams will target him hum i say get this drew can pass to yall

THE NATION
09-09-2008, 11:41 PM
hey, the nation is the one who brought up the amount of time on the site, i was simply defending mile high champ by refuting his point. alos the thread only had 5 posts because someone (TM or Mod) was smart enough to close it. doesnt mean it stoped people from going there, seing the link, and then voting just because hes a laker

No the Milehigh dude called me a rookie.

da wood
09-09-2008, 11:44 PM
yes, but anyone who thinks bynum is better thand DWight is Crazy or the biggest homer in the universe. yao has post moves, he doesnt put up those numbers, same with al jeff. face it, no big man in recent history (4-5) has put up those numbers

yoa doesn't put up them nubers because everytime he tries to play at that high level he gets hurt i'm not saying that he better than dwight but dwight didn't own him either trust me on that one. and don't talk abou al because i think drew should be in front of him

jgonboricua
09-09-2008, 11:44 PM
shaq....his age is up there but when healthy he is still one of the most dominate big men out there

da wood
09-09-2008, 11:46 PM
who would you vote for guest i know bynum there you have it lol i gues he found out about the pole from the laker form too huh lol

da wood
09-09-2008, 11:47 PM
shaq....his age is up there but when healthy he is still one of the most dominate big men out there

he is healthy but his motor just don't run the same

astrosmaniac
09-09-2008, 11:47 PM
No the Milehigh dude called me a rookie.

well compared to most people you are. no sig, no avatar, only been here for less than a month, not really giving a good argument

da wood
09-09-2008, 11:48 PM
shaq....his age is up there but when healthy he is still one of the most dominate big men out there

i see you like me though my man you like to read alot of the crap people put up here huh

NYK All the Way
09-09-2008, 11:48 PM
Big Z he's got mad skill

JMan17
09-09-2008, 11:51 PM
well compared to most people you are. no sig, no avatar, only been here for less than a month, not really giving a good argument

wtf does that mean? so wait, "OH LOOK AT ME I GOT AN AVATAR AND A PHELPS SIG AND I HAVE BEEN HERE FOR 2 YEARS YET I DON'T KNOW WHAT 2 + 2 IS?" So when a guy makes a good and well educated opinion that has only 50 posts while the other guy with 2,000 posts but is a complete d*****, it means the guy with 2,000 is smarter? :confused:

THE NATION
09-09-2008, 11:53 PM
well compared to most people you are. no sig, no avatar, only been here for less than a month, not really giving a good argument

What the @#$% do i need to hav a sig and avatar for? You act like you run this or something.

astrosmaniac
09-09-2008, 11:54 PM
wtf does that mean? so wait, "OH LOOK AT ME I GOT AN AVATAR AND A PHELPS SIG AND I HAVE BEEN HERE FOR 2 YEARS YET I DON'T KNOW WHAT 2 + 2 IS?" So when a guy makes a good and well educated opinion that has only 50 posts while the other guy with 2,000 posts but is a complete d*****, it means the guy with 2,000 is smarter? :confused:

no but i have been reading his argument, and its not a good one. then he attacks a poster that i know is a very intelligent poster from mocks and the sim league. and he is a rookie. rookie=newb. newb is someone who is new. he is new to the site, so yea hes a rookie compared to most people here

mosdef17
09-09-2008, 11:59 PM
I voted for Bynum.

If I was to pick a player for my team right now it would be him. He is very long and athletic as well as being 7 feet tall. He is a good rebounder and blocks a few shots. Yes he has potential to get better but right now I still think he is better then anyone else on that list.

EDIT: And the people saying Bynum will go to 28 and 15 are just kidding themselves. I think Bynum will be a steady 16-18ppg and 12rbpg most of his career. 28 and 15 is just ludicrous. There is no way he is getting 28ppg. The thought of that is quite insane actually.

THE NATION
09-10-2008, 12:02 AM
no but i have been reading his argument, and its not a good one. then he attacks a poster that i know is a very intelligent poster from mocks and the sim league. and he is a rookie. rookie=newb. newb is someone who is new. he is new to the site, so yea hes a rookie compared to most people here
I based my argument on an ESPN expert and Bynum's head to head stats against thoe other guys. I also stated he was a 3rd option and didn't shoot half as much as the other guys. He played about 10 less min per ame than the other guys and had numbers very close to them.

kntresistheheat
09-10-2008, 12:07 AM
I voted for Bynum, He has the size,attitude,and the youth! Not to mention He had great number last year if he did not get hurt he would of been one of the centers last year!

THE NATION
09-10-2008, 12:12 AM
oh no bynum is leading again. I see another do over.

JMan17
09-10-2008, 12:16 AM
oh no bynum is leading again. I see another do over.

dude there will be like 10 due overs at this rate, then the 11th time bynum will lead again but this time 2nd place would be brad miller :D

Nighthawk
09-10-2008, 12:21 AM
For the record i did believe Bynum being fourth was silly but NEVER once sent any PMS saying to change anything.....


HOWEVER The very first post states THE NATION is trying to get laker fans to vote. WHY DUDE???? Thats the exact reason everyone was complaining to begin with. We dont want every voting for Bynum just for some ****** laugh. But no matter what you Laker fans will never be objective or logical. Just vote for your guys players.

I went with Camby. Former DPOY. He'll be playing the four for the Clips next season but i think hes going to have a big year.

Vidball
09-10-2008, 12:25 AM
Stupid that this is being done again, but I am voting for Bynum because I think he'll be better than anyone on the list THIS SEASON. Last year he averaged 16 and 12 as a starter and he got better every single month. He's had a second summer to train with Dr. Z. He has Pau by his side now (note how Odom's numbers spiked when Gasol came on board both in points and rebounds). I expect 15-17ppg and 12-13rpg along with over 2 blocks and about 60% shooting from the field. Thats why I'm voting for Bynum (again).

ttam68
09-10-2008, 12:34 AM
It's a good thing we're redoing this. The terrible terrorists who corrupted the last poll aren't letting the D-league quality Bynum win this time...oh wait. He is winning again. By about the same ratio. Maybe its because he is the 4th best center you little b*tches.

LA_cabals
09-10-2008, 12:41 AM
BYNUM

Bynum Was the 3rd option (behind odom and Kobe) during the year before he got injured. Most of the Centers that are mentioned that are arguably 4th best have been number 1 options, such as Chris Kamen when Brand was injured and the fact that Bynum beat him in the head to head match up. The other choice is Andris Biedrins. Which is a pretty good case to make for this guy but with not only beating him in points, rebounds, blocks, but also FG%. Also Bynum is a much better not only Shot blocker but better defender.

There is 1 one center what i can't believe people even mention at all, Andrew Bogut. I have never heard such bull crap about this guy before, he hardly has a post game, he puts up pretty good numbers on an less then avg team, and for a guy that was the number 1 pick and has been in the league for 3 years should at least be what he was expected to be.

Bynum has also played for 3 years but not nearly or close to as much playing time or games as much as this guy, also Bynum is 3 years younger then this guy and has put better numbers in almost every category except points (which is only by 1 point) but also doing those numbers on a better and championship contending team.

Lastly the Currant NBA is so short on centers now a days. So even if 4th best Center does sound like a GREAT CENTER, does NOT mean that the player IS a great center. If players like Bogut, the old 37 year old shaq, and kamen, and Bynum are the only ones being compared to see which is the 4th best center, then that really shows a shortage of centers.

I rate Bynum 4 because from what i have watched from this guy, and as a laker fan i have this guy more then most of the non laker fans. Which is why i argue alot of people that say either he's soft, or doesn't have a post move. Please don't confuse soft with Gasol and Ming or No post move with Howard, Because from watching Bynum, he is certainly NOT soft and certainly has a good post game.

btw: This 2nd poll is :bs:

Vidball
09-10-2008, 12:46 AM
I know a lot of people hate PER's....but here is PER's for the Centers we have listed in this poll:

Dwight 22.98
Jefferson 22.80
Yao 22.61
Bynum 22.60
Biedrans 19.18
Ilgauskas 18.76
Kaman 17.62
Chandler 17.56
Bogut 17.55
Camby 17.24
Shaq 17.17
Miller 16.82
Dalembert 15.62
Okur 15.24
JO 14.40

Out of everyone on that list he was 4th in points per minute, first in FG%, and 6th in rebounds (3rd in rebounds per minute), tied for 4th in blocks, 5th in assists. Ridiculous that this poll is being done again.

JMan17
09-10-2008, 12:50 AM
BYNUM

Bynum Was the 3rd option (behind odom and Kobe) during the year before he got injured. Most of the Centers that are mentioned that are arguably 4th best have been number 1 options, such as Chris Kamen when Brand was injured and the fact that Bynum beat him in the head to head match up. The other choice is Andris Biedrins. Which is a pretty good case to make for this guy but with not only beating him in points, rebounds, blocks, but also FG%. Also Bynum is a much better not only Shot blocker but better defender.

There is 1 one center what i can't believe people even mention at all, Andrew Bogut. I have never heard such bull crap about this guy before, he hardly has a post game, he puts up pretty good numbers on an less then avg team, and for a guy that was the number 1 pick and has been in the league for 3 years should at least be what he was expected to be.

Bynum has also played for 3 years but not nearly or close to as much playing time or games as much as this guy, also Bynum is 3 years younger then this guy and has put better numbers in almost every category except points (which is only by 1 point) but also doing those numbers on a better and championship contending team.

Lastly the Currant NBA is so short on centers now a days. So even if 4th best Center does sound like a GREAT CENTER, does NOT mean that the player IS a great center. If players like Bogut, the old 37 year old shaq, and kamen, and Bynum are the only ones being compared to see which is the 4th best center, then that really shows a shortage of centers.

I rate Bynum 4 because from what i have watched from this guy, and as a laker fan i have this guy more then most of the non laker fans. Which is why i argue alot of people that say either he's soft, or doesn't have a post move. Please don't confuse soft with Gasol and Ming or No post move with Howard, Because from watching Bynum, he is certainly NOT soft and certainly has a good post game.

btw: This 2nd poll is :bs:

dude you copied my post :laugh:

IversonIsKrazy
09-10-2008, 12:51 AM
Well in my opinion ots outta these guys:

Jermaine O'Neal
Chris Kaman
Andrew Bogut

LA_cabals
09-10-2008, 12:53 AM
dude you copied my post :laugh:

You said it best. :cheers:

JMan17
09-10-2008, 12:54 AM
You said it best. :cheers:

you're lucky you're a huge suck up :D

oh well applaud you :clap:

IversonIsKrazy
09-10-2008, 12:54 AM
gotta go w/ JO though. hes a 20/10 guy when hes at his fullest. when he starts and is healthy, he can b a franchise guy. JO deserves this 1.

JMan17
09-10-2008, 12:59 AM
gotta go w/ JO though. hes a 20/10 guy when hes at his fullest. when he starts and is healthy, he can b a franchise guy. JO deserves this 1.

and when was the last he was healthy, let me check...the last healthy season was 03-04, yea dude this guy is never healthy. you're right he can be a franchise player but the fact is is that he's not, and never will be. also the quote where you say "he deserves this 1" is a bit of a stretch.

FortyDubs
09-10-2008, 01:06 AM
Just for the record there are several people on the list that I would take over Bynum at this point. Will that change in the coming 2 years? Almost certainly. My vote goes to Kaman. Just look at his numbers and tell me he isn't deserving of this spot. I don't think I need to go into any more detail.

FortyDubs
09-10-2008, 01:12 AM
Stupid that this is being done again, but I am voting for Bynum because I think he'll be better than anyone on the list THIS SEASON. Last year he averaged 16 and 12 as a starter and he got better every single month. He's had a second summer to train with Dr. Z. He has Pau by his side now (note how Odom's numbers spiked when Gasol came on board both in points and rebounds). I expect 15-17ppg and 12-13rpg along with over 2 blocks and about 60% shooting from the field. Thats why I'm voting for Bynum (again).

Not sure if you realize this but you described Kaman's numbers. No homerism at all, right?

kid#8
09-10-2008, 01:25 AM
This b**********.... My vote still goes to andrew...simply becoz... I still see he's greatness even he got injured early in the last season...

LAKERS 24/7
09-10-2008, 02:07 AM
I vote for bynum because not because of numbers, but by how he affects the game. IMO, not one of these guys can do what Bynum can do on both sides of the court. He's better defensively than he is offensively and his efficiency is off the charts.

S.J.Basketball
09-10-2008, 02:24 AM
Andrew Bynum because he pwns ur mom noob.

Seriously though the guy has incredible talent and was beasting last year. He's just going to be better. I would take Bynum over Kaman any day. Any ****ing day.

LA_fan_forewer
09-10-2008, 02:34 AM
I voted for Drew because he will be a beast. Last season he played only 35 games, but didn't you seen his potencial? BTW i don't understand why do we have to vote again, because someone is hater????...:? In my personal opinion Bynum is way better then AL, but i think he is going to muzzle you all during next season!!!!!!!

mamba24
09-10-2008, 02:35 AM
kaman had a solid year and is the best true C left right now. i think the arguement could be made for big z, camby, jo, and still shaq. but kaman has been very impressive.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha NO WAY!!!! hahahahahahahahahahahahaha kaman looks like he should be a janitor. im officially giving him the nickname "The Janitor". i wouldnt take the janitor over bynum camby big z jo or shaq.

The Janitor ha... number 4 ha...

FortyDubs
09-10-2008, 02:42 AM
I voted for Drew because he will be a beast. Last season he played only 35 games, but didn't you seen his potencial? BTW i don't understand why do we have to vote again, because someone is hater????...:? In my personal opinion Bynum is way better then AL, but i think he is going to muzzle you all during next season!!!!!!!

Did you even read the poll post at all? Holy balls man. This is becoming a bit too much for my brain to handle at this point.

S.J.Basketball
09-10-2008, 02:46 AM
Haterism causes recounts.

kid#8
09-10-2008, 03:13 AM
I vote for bynum because not because of numbers, but by how he affects the game. IMO, not one of these guys can do what Bynum can do on both sides of the court. He's better defensively than he is offensively and his efficiency is off the charts.


I voted for Drew because he will be a beast. Last season he played only 35 games, but didn't you seen his potencial? BTW i don't understand why do we have to vote again, because someone is hater????...:? In my personal opinion Bynum is way better then AL, but i think he is going to muzzle you all during next season!!!!!!!

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Antbanks21
09-10-2008, 03:35 AM
Bynum got my vote again cause he showed that he can play against the best centers in the league and do a great job.

bigmac8675
09-10-2008, 03:56 AM
Kaman... he is 26 years old. Averaged 15.7 PPG, 12.7 RPG, 2.8 BPG, 1.9APG FOR AN ENTIRE SEASON!!!! Stupid Bynum lovers... dude the guy hasn't even put up a full season of good numbers.

LakerzDQ
09-10-2008, 04:00 AM
I got shaq because even though injuries hampered him last season, he can still dominate any center in the league right now. he also made Amare a better player.

LakeShowRaider
09-10-2008, 04:36 AM
I vote Bynum because of the fear he puts in opposing guards who want to drive to the lane and the ease in which he gains his baskets. There is no way anyone on this list can compare. Shaq maybe 2 years ago, but thats all. Some of these dudes arent even Centers but just PF playing out of position.

rico
09-10-2008, 04:44 AM
i went with shaq, hes on his decline, but hes still got great game.

anytime you have a laker in a thread you are going to get homers, i mean its the forum with the most fans/posts so yeah.

bynum has great potential though.

lahoreda
09-10-2008, 04:45 AM
I voted for Bynum because he had amazing stats after he became a starter. He is a very good post defender, very good shot blocker, very good rebounder and contrary to popular belief has very nice post moves. All of these things are what I look for in a Center and both Kaman and Bynum have them. Either is a good choice, I just went with Bynum because I love his presence in the middle...

Tom81
09-10-2008, 04:47 AM
Chris Kaman

astrosmaniac
09-10-2008, 07:28 AM
I based my argument on an ESPN expert and Bynum's head to head stats against thoe other guys. I also stated he was a 3rd option and didn't shoot half as much as the other guys. He played about 10 less min per ame than the other guys and had numbers very close to them.

you based your argument on PER and once other posters explained why that was a flawed to stat to rank player by, and MHC brought up the thread you started, you started attacking him

astrosmaniac
09-10-2008, 07:32 AM
Stupid that this is being done again, but I am voting for Bynum because I think he'll be better than anyone on the list THIS SEASON. Last year he averaged 16 and 12 as a starter and he got better every single month. He's had a second summer to train with Dr. Z. He has Pau by his side now (note how Odom's numbers spiked when Gasol came on board both in points and rebounds). I expect 15-17ppg and 12-13rpg along with over 2 blocks and about 60% shooting from the field. Thats why I'm voting for Bynum (again).

you complained when this happened in the WCF voting (aleggedly, because i could never find that thread, and even though this one was closed i could still find in) so dont **** about it in one thread and then call it a BS reason as to why you need to redo the thread

astrosmaniac
09-10-2008, 07:35 AM
I know a lot of people hate PER's....but here is PER's for the Centers we have listed in this poll:

Dwight 22.98
Jefferson 22.80
Yao 22.61
Bynum 22.60
Biedrans 19.18
Ilgauskas 18.76
Kaman 17.62
Chandler 17.56
Bogut 17.55
Camby 17.24
Shaq 17.17
Miller 16.82
Dalembert 15.62
Okur 15.24
JO 14.40

Out of everyone on that list he was 4th in points per minute, first in FG%, and 6th in rebounds (3rd in rebounds per minute), tied for 4th in blocks, 5th in assists. Ridiculous that this poll is being done again.

yea but by PEr ratings, lndry was the 7tb best PF ahead of david west (14) and several other people on the top 10 list from this site. its a flawed stat

astrosmaniac
09-10-2008, 07:42 AM
Andrew Bynum because he pwns ur mom noob.

Seriously though the guy has incredible talent and was beasting last year. He's just going to be better. I would take Bynum over Kaman any day. Any ****ing day.
BUT THIS IS NOW, not the future. based solely on what he has done up till this offseason, including the fact that he only played 35 games last year, and before this year, never showed any signs of brilliance

This b**********.... My vote still goes to andrew...simply becoz... I still see he's greatness even he got injured early in the last season...
this is why we need to only count the posts of people who post a good argument as tho why hes deserves it. because of posters like this

I voted for Drew because he will be a beast. Last season he played only 35 games, but didn't you seen his potencial? BTW i don't understand why do we have to vote again, because someone is hater????...:? In my personal opinion Bynum is way better then AL, but i think he is going to muzzle you all during next season!!!!!!!
this has NOTHING to do with potential. were also redoing the thread because a homer lakers fan started a thread in th laker forum getting people to vote for bynum. he tried to rig the voting. this was all explained in the first post.

GCOOKIE7
09-10-2008, 07:45 AM
A 20 10 guy easily when he's healthy.... and he's now healthy
I got Jermain O'neal

GCOOKIE7
09-10-2008, 07:47 AM
there's more votes for Bynum........... So KAMAN WON?

$ NyC $
09-10-2008, 08:18 AM
Kaman...he's basically a white Camby but with a better scoring touch...has great numbers and is still young...

J-Relo
09-10-2008, 08:35 AM
SHAQ

Most dominant center ever... now he isn't that good, but nobody is.... maybe some people say that he is done, but it's not true... last year he posted pretty good numbers and i think next season they will be even better... watch out for Shaq and the Suns...

innovator
09-10-2008, 08:45 AM
Andrew Bynum....when the season started last year the lakers basically had the same exact team as the 2 previous years when they got bounced by the suns in the first round with the exception of Derek Fisher. Later on the season Lakers had the best record in the Western Conference. Now you may ask how is this possible when the lakers with the same exact team 2 yrs ago were at best 7/8th seed? Did Derek Fisher make the lakers from a 7/8th team to a #1 in the WC? No, Bynum was having his breakout year and outplaying everyone he faced. He ALSO gets my vote

innovator
09-10-2008, 08:48 AM
astrosmaniac please stop being a hater and stop ****ing up with people post do your own business and dont butt in other people's votes in not your job u hater

JermanJaysFan
09-10-2008, 09:01 AM
Kaman- true centre, great numbers.

pebloemer
09-10-2008, 09:21 AM
I'll take Shaq. Of the Centers listed, he would be the name I would fear most on the other team. The only other name that has that same effect is JO but after the past 4 seasons he has to prove he is healthy for me first.

Frank Costanza
09-10-2008, 09:50 AM
OK ITs not even close its Jermaine O'neal , not because we traded for him or becuase he claims he is healthy, Look at the guys you have him up against. This guy is a 7 time allstar in those yrs avg 20 /10 the guy who said "washed up" didnt check his birth certificate the mans 30 yrs old,with 4 really productive yrs ahead and 2-3 slow down twilight yrs left.IF JO had been traded to the lakers instead of Pau hed have a red carpet laid down for him and talks of the championship, hes still the same guy, even if ppl hate on TOr and INDY

Hawkeye15
09-10-2008, 10:03 AM
when a team loses the 4th best center in the NBA game 35, it does not go on to win the west and get to the finals. That alone showed Bynum wasn't necessary. The best thing he did all year was get hurt, so they could get Gasol for nothing. Bynum was not a top 10 center in the NBA last year. Kaman should win this, but alas, he won't with all the Laker fans throwing their biased opinion on here.

barreleffact
09-10-2008, 10:10 AM
im going bynum for a few reasons. 1 people argue that he is unproven and isnt good. sry. i see it differently. in 28 mins per game and only 25 starts he accomplished a double double average and 2.2 blocks. not only was he emerging but compared to most on the list he is already there. he works w kareem and has shown flashes of being able to create his own shot. people wanna argue against his production this season because of gasol and bynum....bynum is going to get a max deal. do you honestly believe buss would even hint at a max deal if he didnt see bynum as the future and as good enough now? bynum will get his touches and may have a better career than dwight because bynum isnt as soft. he wants to show out while dwight seems content. my pick...bynum. esp since all u pansies wanted to cry and complain. but you never fail to realize you just hate LA. i mean did we revote about pierce being the number 2 SF? i dont think so, but just to let you know...he isnt. people forgot all about him. 2 seasons ago Paul was injured for less than 20 games and nobody was a HUGE fan of his. 1 season turns a lot of attention to u, and now its bynums stage

barreleffact
09-10-2008, 10:14 AM
when a team loses the 4th best center in the NBA game 35, it does not go on to win the west and get to the finals. That alone showed Bynum wasn't necessary. The best thing he did all year was get hurt, so they could get Gasol for nothing. Bynum was not a top 10 center in the NBA last year. Kaman should win this, but alas, he won't with all the Laker fans throwing their biased opinion on here.

yea... ur very smart. the gasol trade and losing nothing helped nothing at all. I mean bynum wasnt anything special because they were able to steal a better scorer at this point for nothing and he fit in with them. i mean the fact that they had about 1/2 a season to mesh mattered not at all nor the fact that gasol fits in perfectly on the triangle offense. next thing ya know duncan is gonna go down and the spurs trade finley 2 picks and some scrubs for KG...all of a sudden, hey, tim duncan, one of the greatest forwards ever, means nothing because they filled a void well. thats moronic

barreleffact
09-10-2008, 10:17 AM
Andrew Bynum....when the season started last year the lakers basically had the same exact team as the 2 previous years when they got bounced by the suns in the first round with the exception of Derek Fisher. Later on the season Lakers had the best record in the Western Conference. Now you may ask how is this possible when the lakers with the same exact team 2 yrs ago were at best 7/8th seed? Did Derek Fisher make the lakers from a 7/8th team to a #1 in the WC? No, Bynum was having his breakout year and outplaying everyone he faced. He ALSO gets my vote

incredibly well said. thru 35 games they became great with bynum. they started and were going to slip w/o him had gasol not come

knicks1214
09-10-2008, 10:17 AM
im going bynum for a few reasons. 1 people argue that he is unproven and isnt good. sry. i see it differently. in 28 mins per game and only 25 starts he accomplished a double double average and 2.2 blocks. not only was he emerging but compared to most on the list he is already there. he works w kareem and has shown flashes of being able to create his own shot. people wanna argue against his production this season because of gasol and bynum....bynum is going to get a max deal. do you honestly believe buss would even hint at a max deal if he didnt see bynum as the future and as good enough now? bynum will get his touches and may have a better career than dwight because bynum isnt as soft. he wants to show out while dwight seems content. my pick...bynum. esp since all u pansies wanted to cry and complain. but you never fail to realize you just hate LA. i mean did we revote about pierce being the number 2 SF? i dont think so, but just to let you know...he isnt. people forgot all about him. 2 seasons ago Paul was injured for less than 20 games and nobody was a HUGE fan of his. 1 season turns a lot of attention to u, and now its bynums stage

He did not last the entire season...how can he be the 4th best center? He has shown flashes of being able to create his own shot but Jermaine, Bogut, and Kaman can already do it themselves. And Bynum is a lot softer than Howard...that's just something everyone knows.

THE NATION
09-10-2008, 10:20 AM
when a team loses the 4th best center in the NBA game 35, it does not go on to win the west and get to the finals. That alone showed Bynum wasn't necessary. The best thing he did all year was get hurt, so they could get Gasol for nothing. Bynum was not a top 10 center in the NBA last year. Kaman should win this, but alas, he won't with all the Laker fans throwing their biased opinion on here.
They were 1st place in the west when bynum went down. After that the dropped a bit to like 4th, but then traded for Gasol and took over 1st again. The team at the start of the season was the same team that was the 8th seed the season prior.

cardinals1226
09-10-2008, 10:26 AM
Even after redoing the thread a bunch of Laker homers still ruin it. What's the point anymore when it's clear every Laker fan is going to vote for Bynum whether he is really the fourth best center or not. It's clear that Karman, Jermaine, Camby, Bogut, Miller, and Chandler are more proven than Bynum. A fourth of the season doesn't prove a thing. If a fourth of the season was all that mattered then Chipper Jones' .450 batting average at the time would make him the MVP. Bynum needs to play an entire season before I even consider him being top 10.

barreleffact
09-10-2008, 10:29 AM
He did not last the entire season...how can he be the 4th best center? He has shown flashes of being able to create his own shot but Jermaine, Bogut, and Kaman can already do it themselves. And Bynum is a lot softer than Howard...that's just something everyone knows.

who cares if he didnt go the entire season. he proved he can average game numbers in 3/4 game minutes. jermaine was injured and IMO is a forward. he isnt a center. as far as I know, he lost all his talent because since his injury, he hasnt proven anything. neither has bynum, but bynums role will be different. he wont have to be a focal point...they have a main point and an entire starting line up that can score for themselves or for you. O'neal doesnt. he's pretty much a 3rd option on a team 3 options deep to me. Bogut...lol. Kaman...he is good. his bpg are really nice too. but he plays more minutes, and is basically just bynum right now if bynum could play as long. so when you think of it that way, you start to look at next season's stats. camby is coming in. that will take some blocks and a LOT of rebounding away that he isnt used to. Bynum is used to Odam geting boards, Kobe a little too. Gasol isnt a great boarder so bynums stats will probably stay the same or improve.

THE NATION
09-10-2008, 10:30 AM
Even after redoing the thread a bunch of Laker homers still ruin it. What's the point anymore when it's clear every Laker fan is going to vote for Bynum whether he is really the fourth best center or not. It's clear that Karman, Jermaine, Camby, Bogut, Miller, and Chandler are more proven than Bynum. A fourth of the season doesn't prove a thing. If a fourth of the season was all that mattered then Chipper Jones' .450 batting average at the time would make him the MVP. Bynum needs to play an entire season before I even consider him being top 10.
Thank you for letting us know what you would do.

knicks1214
09-10-2008, 10:34 AM
Barrel, we have no idea if he could have sustained those numbers when Pau came because he would be getting even less touches. He proved he can play well for not even half a season. Gasol averaged 8 rpg. That's 8 less rebounds for the rest of the team, meaning that Bynum will also average less rebounds. Bogut does have a lot more post moves than Gasol...idk why people don't give him enough credit. In your entire rebuttal, the only thing I agreed with was that JO should probably be a PF.

MassoDio
09-10-2008, 10:36 AM
you know i was wondering how al jefferson ended up ahead of drew because drew got in his *** last year when we played minni yeah i remember that game drew killed him. you know us in the laker forms were very rough on drew last year i think that first game against minni is when people started believing in drew and he was ballin till he got hurt.

um....Bynum played in one of the games against Minnesota last year. Bynum went for 10pts/10rbs/3blks on 50% shooting (4-8)
Jefferson went for 24pts/15rbs/2blks on 50% shooting (12-24)
So I don't really know what you are talking about.

This whole Bynum thing is ridiculous. He is going to be a fantastic player. He has all the skill potential in the world. He isn't there yet though. He has shown some brilliant flashes of what is most likely to come, but still shouldn't be looked at as better RIGHT NOW than a few other centers.

I selected Jermaine Oneal simply for the fact that if he is healthy, he is still one of the best centers in the league. If he continues to be unhealthy this year, it's Kaman until Bynum can prove that he can sustain a high level of play over the course of a season.

knicks1214
09-10-2008, 10:39 AM
The 4 spot belongs to Kaman now...Mile you should just give it to him then move along...or just get rid of Bynum because every person with NBA knowledge knows that it's way too early to say he's the 4th best center in the NBA.

JMan17
09-10-2008, 10:42 AM
The 4 spot belongs to Kaman now...Mile you should just give it to him then move along...or just get rid of Bynum because every person with NBA knowledge knows that it's way too early to say he's the 4th best center in the NBA.

so wait a min kamen as 1 good year and everyone thinks he's the 4th best while bynum doing the same thing at age 20 and as a 3rd option but it's too early to tell for bynum and not for kamen?

barreleffact
09-10-2008, 10:46 AM
Barrel, we have no idea if he could have sustained those numbers when Pau came because he would be getting even less touches. He proved he can play well for not even half a season. Gasol averaged 8 rpg. That's 8 less rebounds for the rest of the team, meaning that Bynum will also average less rebounds. Bogut does have a lot more post moves than Gasol...idk why people don't give him enough credit. In your entire rebuttal, the only thing I agreed with was that JO should probably be a PF.

8 rebounds from a below average rebounder is different from double figure rebounds from a great rebounder. bynum may be affected by pau, but thats probably 1 or 2 rebounds a game pau will take. He will average more than 28 minutes a game so im sure bynum will be able to make up for the possible 2 boards. I don't believe he will get less touches. He didnt get a lot of touches before. He might not be as high on an isolation play list, but he is probably higher than gasol on the pick and roll. both iso and pick and roll would probably change depending on the other team. some nights they would go for pau and others bynum. who ever's mismatch is greater. but really, he didnt get many touches before and with buss wanting him to prove he will deserve this max contract he's gonna get, im sure he'll have plenty more opportunities than people are trying to give him credit for.

FOBolous
09-10-2008, 10:49 AM
i think Laker fans should be banned from voting. first Odom than Bynum? this is complete BS.

da wood
09-10-2008, 10:50 AM
I voted for Bynum.

If I was to pick a player for my team right now it would be him. He is very long and athletic as well as being 7 feet tall. He is a good rebounder and blocks a few shots. Yes he has potential to get better but right now I still think he is better then anyone else on that list.

EDIT: And the people saying Bynum will go to 28 and 15 are just kidding themselves. I think Bynum will be a steady 16-18ppg and 12rbpg most of his career. 28 and 15 is just ludicrous. There is no way he is getting 28ppg. The thought of that is quite insane actually.

see to set the craziness straight for the record i said if everything was fynneled through him and he didn't have any othe options on his team ala kaman and he didn't have any other rebounders on his team ala kaman i do believe he can get those number or dam close to it.

knicks1214
09-10-2008, 10:51 AM
Oh, my bad. I didn't realize that 16, 13, and 3 is not better than 13, 10, and 3. I also didn't realize that 8 points, 6 rebounds is better than Kaman's 10 and 8 from last year. And, from the year before that, I didn't realize that 2 points, 2 rebounds for Bynum is better than 12 and 10 for Kaman. Kaman has been a lot more consistent...stop being a Lakers homer for one second and think outside the box. Kaman had 16, 13, and 3 last year yes as the first option, but teams would double team him and apply a lot more pressure on him than they would on Bynum because Bynum was only the third option on his team, usually 4th option. AKA he had a lot more free looks than Kaman. Kaman is also a lot more polished than Bynum. Bynum had more than 70% of his points coming from put backs and dunks whereas Kaman actually has offensive talent that he shows day in day out with an array of jump shots, hook shots, and drop steps-same with Bogut...Also, Gasol is definitely higher on the pick and roll than Bynum because if Gasol can't get to the rim, he can step out and hit a 15 foot jumpshot...Bynum can't do that yet.

barreleffact
09-10-2008, 10:52 AM
i think Laker fans should be banned from voting. first Odom than Bynum? this is complete BS.

good poiint. odam is way better than the number 9 SF in the game.:)

still1ballin
09-10-2008, 10:52 AM
The 4 spot belongs to Kaman now...Mile you should just give it to him then move along...or just get rid of Bynum because every person with NBA knowledge knows that it's way too early to say he's the 4th best center in the NBA.

You want to redo the poll again?

still1ballin
09-10-2008, 10:54 AM
i think Laker fans should be banned from voting. first Odom than Bynum? this is complete BS.

:cry::cry:boo hoo stop crying you baby:cry::cry:

knicks1214
09-10-2008, 10:55 AM
I never said we need to redo the poll...he should just take the second highest one because there are too many thick headed, ignorant Lakers fans here who think that because Bynum played well for half a season he is the 4th best center in the NBA and other Lakers fans who just think that they have the best players at every position on their team...And Barrel, you can't even spell the name right of your small forward...nice.

FOBolous
09-10-2008, 10:55 AM
Oh, my bad. I didn't realize that 16, 13, and 3 is not better than 13, 10, and 3. I also didn't realize that 8 points, 6 rebounds is better than Kaman's 10 and 8 from last year. And, from the year before that, I didn't realize that 2 points, 2 rebounds for Bynum is better than 12 and 10 for Kaman. Kaman has been a lot more consistent...stop being a Lakers homer for one second and think outside the box. Kaman had 16, 13, and 3 last year yes as the first option, but teams would double team him and apply a lot more pressure on him than they would on Bynum because Bynum was only the third option on his team, usually 4th option. AKA he had a lot more free looks than Kaman. Kaman is also a lot more polished than Bynum. Bynum had more than 70% of his points coming from put backs and dunks whereas Kaman actually has offensive talent that he shows day in day out with an array of jump shots, hook shots, and drop steps-same with Bogut...Also, Gasol is definitely higher on the pick and roll than Bynum because if Gasol can't get to the rim, he can step out and hit a 15 foot jumpshot...Bynum can't do that yet.


i agree completely :clap: opposing teams go into the game with plans specifically designed to stop Kaman. Bynum? to opposing teams even worry about him with Kobe, Odom, and Gasol on the team?

imo...if Bynum doesn't get the open looks and easy opportunties Kobe, Odom, and Gasol gets him...if Bynum actually have to fight through defense...he would have similar stats to Tyson Chandler.

da wood
09-10-2008, 10:56 AM
Well in my opinion ots outta these guys:

Jermaine O'Neal
Chris Kaman
Andrew Bogut

why do you think its out of those guys i thought they said you have to give a reason for your pick or was that just a reason why you picked bynum

barreleffact
09-10-2008, 11:00 AM
Oh, my bad. I didn't realize that 16, 13, and 3 is not better than 13, 10, and 3. I also didn't realize that 8 points, 6 rebounds is better than Kaman's 10 and 8 from last year. And, from the year before that, I didn't realize that 2 points, 2 rebounds for Bynum is better than 12 and 10 for Kaman. Kaman has been a lot more consistent...stop being a Lakers homer for one second and think outside the box. Kaman had 16, 13, and 3 last year yes as the first option, but teams would double team him and apply a lot more pressure on him than they would on Bynum because Bynum was only the third option on his team, usually 4th option. AKA he had a lot more free looks than Kaman. Kaman is also a lot more polished than Bynum. Bynum had more than 70% of his points coming from put backs and dunks whereas Kaman actually has offensive talent that he shows day in day out with an array of jump shots, hook shots, and drop steps-same with Bogut...Also, Gasol is definitely higher on the pick and roll than Bynum because if Gasol can't get to the rim, he can step out and hit a 15 foot jumpshot...Bynum can't do that yet.

really? you didnt realize that. only an idiot couldnt tell that! jp...but seriously though, i said pick and roll. not pick and pop. and regardless its all about the match-ups. their orders will be interchangeable. kaman may be more proven, i wont argue against it. but like you mentioned, he was the first option getting decent numbers. bynum got decent numbers that were great considering the minutes and option number. plus as far as the 70% dunks stuff, look at amare. he's good too right? idc about bynum for scoring. I'm high on him because he got double figure boards and more than 2 blocks in 28 minutes. thats why im a d-12 fan. i want my bigs in the post rebounding and payin D. forget a crappy jump shot. 7 footers are too big to be outside 10 feet IMO. And know your facts before you call somebody a Homer. I'm Tennessee born and raised and north carolina is my second home. Wade in MIA is my favorite player and throughout the 3 peat, i hated the lakers, shaq, and kobe as much as if not more than anyone else. i just respect people's games

knicks1214
09-10-2008, 11:04 AM
Amare can shoot the jumpshot within the 3 point line...and he has been working on that for some time now also. If Kaman is more proven then he is the better center out of the two...you just proved my point. Kaman had those numbers even though the defenses would key down on him...Bynum didn't have to worry about that because there was still Kobe and Odom on the floor...they had other players to worry about as well. So your high on him...he has potential...everyone knows that. But until he can average better numbers for an entire season, or at least for more than half a season, he's not the 4th best center...however, I do like it that you're a Wade fan-my favorite player also.

barreleffact
09-10-2008, 11:05 AM
I never said we need to redo the poll...he should just take the second highest one because there are too many thick headed, ignorant Lakers fans here who think that because Bynum played well for half a season he is the 4th best center in the NBA and other Lakers fans who just think that they have the best players at every position on their team...And Barrel, you can't even spell the name right of your small forward...nice.

lol...good point. it is Odom, but w/e he is better than his 9th rank. he is just soft. but as far as bynum. your biggest argument is that he didnt play a full season. what if he did? what would all you haters be saying then? It seems to me that anyone that likes or respects bynum is all of a sudden a laker homer and everyone else is just a hater. there is no median in your eyes. u got the median. im about as unbiased as it gets. I'm sceptical about everyone and everything. even CP3 because it just seemed too fast. and yes, I am sceptical of bynum, but what he did does put him at number 4 considering he was only getting better and more involved b4 the injury and that the center position is very weak.

da wood
09-10-2008, 11:05 AM
He did not last the entire season...how can he be the 4th best center? He has shown flashes of being able to create his own shot but Jermaine, Bogut, and Kaman can already do it themselves. And Bynum is a lot softer than Howard...that's just something everyone knows.

if thatss the case then yao *** shouldn't be number 2 or 1 or whatever he is. he only play a few more games than drew and just because he have soft hands doesn't mean hes softer than howard

knicks1214
09-10-2008, 11:11 AM
If Bynum played a full season and had those averages, then yeah, there would be many more people, including myself, who would not be saying that he doesn't deserve the 4th spot. I also respect Bynum a lot...in so many of my posts about him, I said in 2-5 years, he is going to be a top 3 center in the NBA...I recognize that he has gotten better year in year out, but I still don't think hes better than other people on that list NOW...@wood, Yao has proven each year that he is one of the best centers in the NBA...he's averaged 19 and 9 for his career...Bynum had one good season...and btw, if you actually think that Howard is weaker than Bynum and Howard is more soft than him, you are really mistaken...

barreleffact
09-10-2008, 11:13 AM
Amare can shoot the jumpshot within the 3 point line...and he has been working on that for some time now also. If Kaman is more proven then he is the better center out of the two...you just proved my point. Kaman had those numbers even though the defenses would key down on him...Bynum didn't have to worry about that because there was still Kobe and Odom on the floor...they had other players to worry about as well. So your high on him...he has potential...everyone knows that. But until he can average better numbers for an entire season, or at least for more than half a season, he's not the 4th best center...however, I do like it that you're a Wade fan-my favorite player also.

Amare can shoot now because of his injury. He had to work on it. but bynum is the better rebounder and the better blocker/defender. this isnt about them tho i was just pointing out that some great players get the bulk of their points off someone else. the list of people that do is really long and filled w sum spectacular players. but we wont know what bynum and kaman could do if they switched postitions because bynum was fortunate enough to be drafted a laker. however, what bynum has done is nothing short of spectacular IMO. few others could step in and do it. bynum is surrounded by talent yet still scores, boards, blocks, and demands respect. kaman was never surrounded by talent. he may crumble. this is his proving year because its the first since brand that he'll have someone as good or better in the paint with him. at the end of the day tho, im goin bynum. this board isnt that big of a concern. have your opinion. as long as we agree on wade...all is right. :)

barreleffact
09-10-2008, 11:20 AM
If Bynum played a full season and had those averages, then yeah, there would be many more people, including myself, who would not be saying that he doesn't deserve the 4th spot. I also respect Bynum a lot...in so many of my posts about him, I said in 2-5 years, he is going to be a top 3 center in the NBA...I recognize that he has gotten better year in year out, but I still don't think hes better than other people on that list NOW...@wood, Yao has proven each year that he is one of the best centers in the NBA...he's averaged 19 and 9 for his career...Bynum had one good season...and btw, if you actually think that Howard is weaker than Bynum and Howard is more soft than him, you are really mistaken...

and i understand that consistency is big. it should be but if bynum can maintain, as you said, it will be harder to vote against him. he is better off this year now that he has gasol. his numbers should boost even further IMO. Yao, as injury riddled as his career has been, has shown he can average some good numbers. I just honestly think with his height and body, he should average like 35 and 16. who should be able to stop him? but as far as howard goes...im not gonna argue his toughness. id rather fight bynum b4 howard. howard seems like a really nice guy that would kill you if provoked enough. idky. he just seemes so laid back that he's gotta be mean if pressed hard enough. but basketball wise, i do think dwight is softer. he doesnt seem to care that he cant score. his offensive game consists of dunk, dunk, and if im open dunk again. he doesnt care if he gets scored on, no I wanna go back at you mentality. when i said bynum was less soft, the best instance i can come up with is when shaq dinked on him, bynum went right back at him and after got overly excited and pissed shaq off. I dont see that from d-12

Vidball
09-10-2008, 11:23 AM
The 4 spot belongs to Kaman now...Mile you should just give it to him then move along...or just get rid of Bynum because every person with NBA knowledge knows that it's way too early to say he's the 4th best center in the NBA.

Every person with NBA knowledge...lol. I dont know if you've never seen Kaman play, or Bynum play--probably both. Kaman has ZERO defense...none. Did anybody see what Bynum did to Kaman this year? I don't think anyone who watched that game would even consider Kaman as a better center. He did put up strong numbers last year as his teams 1st option (which he won't be this season), but come on--Chris "Caveman" Kaman? The guy ONLY goes for blocks and has no solid post D at all. Take a look at what Bynum did to him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_gH72uDLkg

knicks1214
09-10-2008, 11:24 AM
IF Bynum has the same averages as last year, and the same impact as last year, in this coming season, I think he deserves to be 4th. But, he still has not done anything yet, so right now we are saying he is the 4th best based on potential. I do agree that Yao should have better averages though...he's too fragile. Vidball, how many times must I say head to head comparisons mean nothing...If Zach Randolph outplays KG one game or Stoudemire, does that make Zebo better? No. It doesn't. You do realize that being the team's number 1 option is harder than being the 3rd though right? The defense keys down on the first option, what Kaman was, and he was still able to put up good numbers. Just to show you Bynum also "playing defense," here is a clip...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXdbBQ-3Rxs...I don't think that reaching in for a steal instead of bodying up a person and trying to stop the dunk is playing defense. That's just me though. For the last time, I'm going to say so people don't think I hate the Lakers and Bynum: The Lakers are my second favorite team and in 2-5 years, Bynum will be a top 3 center in the NBA...just too many people are saying he is the 4th best center after seeing him have a solid first half of the season...

Vidball
09-10-2008, 11:39 AM
No big deal...I think Bynum will be the 4th best center in the NBA, you think it will be Kaman. I have no problem with that. To say that people with NBA knowledge wouldn't ever say Bynum will be the 4th best center this season is ridiculous though. I think he'll put up the kind of numbers Kaman will put up, but with much better D, about 15% better shooting from the field, and as a 3rd option.

BowDown32
09-10-2008, 11:47 AM
Every person with NBA knowledge...lol. I dont know if you've never seen Kaman play, or Bynum play--probably both. Kaman has ZERO defense...none. Did anybody see what Bynum did to Kaman this year? I don't think anyone who watched that game would even consider Kaman as a better center. He did put up strong numbers last year as his teams 1st option (which he won't be this season), but come on--Chris "Caveman" Kaman? The guy ONLY goes for blocks and has no solid post D at all. Take a look at what Bynum did to him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_gH72uDLkg

Thats why Camby needs some votes here. In a centre you want someone who changes the game on the defensive end and rebounds the basketball. I really don't know how this got into a Kaman vs. Bynum arguement.

NEITHER of these guys deserve that 4th spot!!! Bynum is going to be a great player but based on half a season you can't say hes the 4th best center in the league... you just CAN'T! His potential is through the roof, but the reason he has such great numbers is because he was the 3rd option.

If you have Kobe and Lamar giving you dishes that are tastier than your momma's home cookin then yah you will shoot 50% from the field. Numbers dont matter that much in this case. If he was the number one option on a team he wouldn't be that good. That team would lose to Memphis, trust me.

barreleffact
09-10-2008, 12:06 PM
Thats why Camby needs some votes here. In a centre you want someone who changes the game on the defensive end and rebounds the basketball. I really don't know how this got into a Kaman vs. Bynum arguement.

NEITHER of these guys deserve that 4th spot!!! Bynum is going to be a great player but based on half a season you can't say hes the 4th best center in the league... you just CAN'T! His potential is through the roof, but the reason he has such great numbers is because he was the 3rd option.

If you have Kobe and Lamar giving you dishes that are tastier than your momma's home cookin then yah you will shoot 50% from the field. Numbers dont matter that much in this case. If he was the number one option on a team he wouldn't be that good. That team would lose to Memphis, trust me.

your last knock was about his scoring. 13ppg is not really all too impresive. even with the 28 mpg thats about 6th man time and production. what made bynum great was the defense, rebounding, and blocking he brought in limited time. basically he did those 3 things around as well as camby did(a zero offensive option) in less minutes and also scored better. Camby would not be great as a number 1 option either. and even now, bynum would be a better number 1 option if he stays consistant

SpeeMN
09-10-2008, 12:09 PM
Go Big Al!! this is the hardest decision to make:
Camby is the Defensive Center of the past decade
Jermaine is the best player out of the bunch but hasn't shown he still has it
Bynum may now be the best but its still potential
Shaq was the best, keyword: 'was'
Kaman is a consistent double double guy who is now in his prime, he just needs to stay healthy- he gets my vote barely

Camby should be getting more love though... he should be top five

barreleffact
09-10-2008, 12:28 PM
bynum, camby, id even take dalembert over kaman. then kaman, both oneals, bogut, and chandler can fight for the last few spots

and dont sleep on dalembert. he should get some love soon. starting at maybe 6 when it gets more hazy

zachattach
09-10-2008, 12:42 PM
Here is the UPDATE: We will do the poll once more, I will still include Bynum in this poll.. Though I will not take your VOTE unless you provide an argument why you are voting for that player. I supsect people are voting based on BYnum's potential and not what he has done in the league so far. If you want to vote for someone make an argument for that player, I dont want to have just homers voting for Bynum and not explaining why he is being selected. I repeat this is not based on POTENTIAL but ON SKILL and what the player is doing right now in the LEAGUE. At the bottom of your post just tell people who you voted for. Thanks for understanding!

I also had a redo after I learned THE NATION made a poll on the laker board telling people to vote for Bynum. I warned people about that in previous polls.. There is no homer garbage here. This happened with Vince and the nets froum when the SG spot was going on. Its people Like the Nation who are screwing up the results of this poll..


Hey everyone, we will be continuing the series to find a true top 10 list at each position. We are on onto the CENTERS... Jefferson was the easy winner of the third poll so we will continue on.

Like I said before, I will add more players to the list as soon as we put another guy on the top 10 list.

PS: Please do not start any threads with the same title. I am capable of conducting the polls and completing the series of threads to find the top 10 players at each position. If I need some help I will ask for it. Thanks for your time.

An updated list of the polls we have completed can be found here..
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums...89#post6524689

1) Dwight Howard
2) Yao Ming
3) Al Jefferson
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)

A Quick Note: This is a poll for who is the best center, not which center has the best potential. The best centers in the league as of right now. Thanks.

well the reason i chose Bynum is because when i look at this list of centers 3 of them besides Bynum are in question for this 4th spot (JO, Shaq and Tyson)
JO has really had a tough time staying on the floor and for the past two years has not been the same. Some question if we ever will be, for that reason i place Bynum above him.

Shaq top 5 center of all time. But is really on the decline, still effective but reallly isnt all that mobile. Still a top ten center but not top 4.

Tyson, once he left Chicago really broke out and has been living up to his potential. He is a big presence in the middle and on the boards. After that his game consist of alley-oops and putbacks on offense. None of which are bad, but again dont make you a top 4 center in the league.

Bynum well i look at the top 3 centers and ask myself why are considered the best 3?? Well they all are good rebounders and create a big presence in the lane (Jefferson not so much). Both Howard and Yao are good shot blockers. Now what really sets them apart is the ablity to throw the ball down in the post and let them go to work. Well now Bynum gives you all of this. In 35 games if you recall correctly he started of slow playing much like Tyson getting most of his points off of alley-oops and put backs , but the more time and experiance he got he became that guy that you can put the ball in his hands and he can create his own shot on the post. People first started calling the Lakers championship contenders when he was in the lineup. He does everything the top 3 centers do while no one else on that list does except shaq and he isn't the same player anymore not even close to the old player. Pau outplays Shaq now a days.

damn i forgot Kaman. Simple one on one he owns Kaman. Simple as that. Bynum is also a better longer defender then Kaman (defense isnt only blocking shots)

Tom81
09-10-2008, 12:50 PM
it's time for 5 spot .

MassoDio
09-10-2008, 12:57 PM
damn i forgot Kaman. Simple one on one he owns Kaman. Simple as that. Bynum is also a better longer defender then Kaman (defense isnt only blocking shots)

Really? I looked at the head to head stats.....don't really favor Bynum.
One game Bynum had 6 blocks. That same game Kaman had 18/16. About the only thing that Bynum "owns" Kaman on head to head is FG%. And maybe blocking shots. But like you said defense isn't only blocking shots.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=bynuman01&p2=kamanch01

There is the link to the head to head match ups.

barreleffact
09-10-2008, 12:59 PM
Really? I looked at the head to head stats.....don't really favor Bynum.
One game Bynum had 6 blocks. That same game Kaman had 18/16. About the only thing that Bynum "owns" Kaman on head to head is FG%. And maybe blocking shots. But like you said defense isn't only blocking shots.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=bynuman01&p2=kamanch01

There is the link to the head to head match ups.

that was talked about on the last thread. long stry short bynum did own kaman THAT 1 GAME. but kaman did most of his damage while bynum was on the bench. both rebounding and point wise were like 60+% while bynum was gone

Nighthawk
09-10-2008, 01:00 PM
Laker fans amuse me BIG TIME. Everyone knows BYNUM has potential. People keep using the arguement he was AWESOME in 35 games HE HAS TO BE GOOD FOR A FULL SEASON. and why that MAY be true we dont know. NO-ONE knows what this kid will do.I like the Celts, i think Perk is a good young big man who over time will develop into a solid center but i wouldnt vote for him just because hes on my team. All the PSD homers are makin me dislike Bynum which sucks. Im hopin to see him fail just becuase of the people on here who bow before the man.


I much rather have CAMBY or Kaman RIGHT NOW then bynum. Maybe after a full season id want Bynum. Ill wait til the season starts to do aany more talking about Andrew Bynum

bdalakerdude32
09-10-2008, 01:01 PM
jefferson doesnt deserve to be 3... at all. his teams trash. guys like bynum n kamen wud b ruling **** on minisota. he aint proved himself at all. jefferson did alright in his last year in boston for the same reason its a team full of nobodys other than paul pierce but he needs help. bynum was the #2 option on a lakers team who was in 1st in the west b4 he went down. so until jefferson can establish himself on a legit team he shudnt even be in the top 5

Nighthawk
09-10-2008, 01:04 PM
that was talked about on the last thread. long stry short bynum did own kaman THAT 1 GAME. but kaman did most of his damage while bynum was on the bench. both rebounding and point wise were like 60+% while bynum was gone

own??????????? lookin at the stats i see NOOOO owning whatsoever.

Nighthawk
09-10-2008, 01:05 PM
jefferson doesnt deserve to be 3... at all. his teams trash. guys like bynum n kamen wud b ruling **** on minisota. he aint proved himself at all. jefferson did alright in his last year in boston for the same reason its a team full of nobodys other than paul pierce but he needs help. bynum was the #2 option on a lakers team who was in 1st in the west b4 he went down. so until jefferson can establish himself on a legit team he shudnt even be in the top 5

foooooooooooool.



exactly what is wrong with this whole poll/thread

barreleffact
09-10-2008, 01:07 PM
own??????????? lookin at the stats i see NOOOO owning whatsoever.

go back to the large thread or look it up. bynum controlled that game WHILE HE WAS ON THE COURT. kaman controlled it when bynum was gone. the end stats dont matter. the on heads up when both are on the floor do.

Afridi786
09-10-2008, 01:10 PM
Bynum is the number 4 center in the league because he averaged 13/10/2 for a couple of months, and has a career average of what 7 and 5? lmao homers.

barreleffact
09-10-2008, 01:10 PM
foooooooooooool.



exactly what is wrong with this whole poll/thread

u should chill on the name calling. he hasnt said anything that even analysts havent said themselves. except for the kaman and bynum being better in minnesota. thats wrong because theyd have no1 to learn from. the only reason i dont put jeff on this list is because hes a PF. a damned good one too, but we havent seen him ever on a contending team so we dont know how good a contributer he can be

barreleffact
09-10-2008, 01:12 PM
Laker fans amuse me BIG TIME. Everyone knows BYNUM has potential. People keep using the arguement he was AWESOME in 35 games HE HAS TO BE GOOD FOR A FULL SEASON. and why that MAY be true we dont know. NO-ONE knows what this kid will do.I like the Celts, i think Perk is a good young big man who over time will develop into a solid center but i wouldnt vote for him just because hes on my team. All the PSD homers are makin me dislike Bynum which sucks. Im hopin to see him fail just becuase of the people on here who bow before the man.


I much rather have CAMBY or Kaman RIGHT NOW then bynum. Maybe after a full season id want Bynum. Ill wait til the season starts to do aany more talking about Andrew Bynum

what can camby or kaman do that bynum cant besides have enough stamina to stay on the court? bynum is more valuable and can contribute just as much if not more already and is only 20

THE NATION
09-10-2008, 01:13 PM
go back to the large thread or look it up. bynum controlled that game WHILE HE WAS ON THE COURT. kaman controlled it when bynum was gone. the end stats dont matter. the on heads up when both are on the floor do.
Not really, Kamam shot 6 for 19 31% that game. He shot 19 times to get 18 points, that is not very good.

barreleffact
09-10-2008, 01:17 PM
Not really, Kamam shot 6 for 19 31% that game. He shot 19 times to get 18 points, that is not very good.

yes. but when bynum was gone he shot a far higher percentage. im gonna have to look it up but when bynum was out, kaman played a lot better

Nighthawk
09-10-2008, 01:18 PM
what can camby or kaman do that bynum cant besides have enough stamina to stay on the court? bynum is more valuable and can contribute just as much if not more already and is only 20

maybe, maybe not


well see


it was only a handful of games

I know what im getting with Camby and Kaman

Nighthawk
09-10-2008, 01:20 PM
Bynum is the number 4 center in the league because he averaged 13/10/2 for a couple of months, and has a career average of what 7 and 5? lmao homers.

:clap::clap: right


hahahahahaha

DerekRE_3
09-10-2008, 01:25 PM
Kaman. He is a 16 and 12 guy and got close to 3 blocks per game. As far as production goes, last year he produced more than Bynum, O'Neal, and every other Center on the list.

soriano2008WS
09-10-2008, 01:48 PM
I accidentially picked O'Neal but I'd actually take Kaman

SpeeMN
09-10-2008, 02:02 PM
jefferson doesnt deserve to be 3... at all. his teams trash. guys like bynum n kamen wud b ruling **** on minisota. he aint proved himself at all. jefferson did alright in his last year in boston for the same reason its a team full of nobodys other than paul pierce but he needs help. bynum was the #2 option on a lakers team who was in 1st in the west b4 he went down. so until jefferson can establish himself on a legit team he shudnt even be in the top 5

WOW- Jefferson is an offensive force, after watching KG for over a decade its nice to see a guy that doesn't shy from contact on the block. He is going to be a 20pt 10reb guy for a long time, and his offensive potential is better than bynum's. bdalakerdude32, you offend me with your misguided insight.

Tom81
09-10-2008, 02:11 PM
this thread is ****ing tiring

BoltLakerPadre
09-10-2008, 02:30 PM
There are some quality players on that list, but I think Bynum is the cream of the crop. I know you don't want us looking at their future potental, but I will mention his the momentum he was gaining last year before he go injured. He was averaging a solid double double, and had the best shooting percentage in the league, and was getting better every game before he went down.

He's got great size and wing span. He has some solid weight for banging down low, but it doesn't slow him down. His foot work is great (thank you KAJ for taking on such an intense project), and his instincts are better every game.

mitch91
09-10-2008, 02:40 PM
I believe based on What Jermaine O'neal has done in his career and what he is capable of he will be a dominant force next to bosh in toronto. He is just as good as any player on defense in my mind. HE had a great combination of offense and defensive skills which warrant him this spot.

Jermaine O'neal

fought it was based on what the player was doing now! your words not mine. jo has been injured quite abit and yes was one of the best and was an allstar but your contridictin yourself. i agree though that bynum should not be number for. personally i would go with kaman i mean chek his stats out las year

BoltLakerPadre
09-10-2008, 02:42 PM
So, now that I stated my case without discussing potential, I want to look at the future for just a second. This kid, Bynum, has all the necessary physical traits, 7'1", long reach, strong and getting stronger, quick feet, and in shape (trains like a beast, which is nice since he was kind of a tub coming out of high school).

But his advantages and potential aren't just due to his physical attriubutes. He's only 20 and already has three years experience. He's been the subject of a media firestorm because of Kobe's trade demands, he's sat on the bench unable to help his team in the finals, building his desire, and this has only made him stronger. He plays with Kobe, one of the smartest, hardest working, and most determined players of all time. He's coached by KAJ, the perfect compliment to Bynum's game, and hopefuly to his longevity. And now he gets to play with Gasol, who is a very smart, long and capable player entering his prime.

Bynum has years till he reaches his prime, but may be on a prime team this coming season. If you don't see this kid and this team coming, you might want to have your eyes check. The future is now, and Bynum is hungry for it.

JWalk126
09-10-2008, 02:47 PM
There's a lot of people who can go here, but I went with Kaman. Last year he showed that he was a good player. He averaged 15.7 PPG, 12.7 RPG, 2.8 BPG, 1.9APG. Those are pretty good stats if you ask me. He is a true center, not a PF playing C. He is 7'0. He's only 26(even though he looks like he's in his 50's), and just entering his prime. He could be a 20 and 10 guy if paired with a passing PG.

what he said

pebloemer
09-10-2008, 02:59 PM
So, now that I stated my case without discussing potential, I want to look at the future for just a second. This kid, Bynum, has all the necessary physical traits, 7'1", long reach, strong and getting stronger, quick feet, and in shape (trains like a beast, which is nice since he was kind of a tub coming out of high school).

But his advantages and potential aren't just due to his physical attriubutes. He's only 20 and already has three years experience. He's been the subject of a media firestorm because of Kobe's trade demands, he's sat on the bench unable to help his team in the finals, building his desire, and this has only made him stronger. He plays with Kobe, one of the smartest, hardest working, and most determined players of all time. He's coached by KAJ, the perfect compliment to Bynum's game, and hopefuly to his longevity. And now he gets to play with Gasol, who is a very smart, long and capable player entering his prime.

Bynum has years till he reaches his prime, but may be on a prime team this coming season. If you don't see this kid and this team coming, you might want to have your eyes check. The future is now, and Bynum is hungry for it.

What evidence is there that it has made him stronger?

I absolutely agree with the rest. He will be a very good player in this league.

duke22
09-10-2008, 03:08 PM
I guess your counting Tim Duncan as PF?if so then my top 5 is:

1. Amare Stoudemire
2. Dwight Howard
3. Yao Ming
4. Al Jefferson
5. Andrew Bynum

IndyRealist
09-10-2008, 03:15 PM
WTF, why is that we have to explain our opinions to you?

Really? Because it's his poll. If you don't agree with how he runs it, then don't participate. Bynum isn't the 3rd best Center in the league. Kaman puts up better numbers, JO put up the same numbers as Bynum while playing injured. Overall skill level, Jermaine O'Neal wins hands down. But if you factor in injuries, Kaman is always there for his team. Kaman.

soriano2008WS
09-10-2008, 03:17 PM
what can camby or kaman do that bynum cant besides have enough stamina to stay on the court? bynum is more valuable and can contribute just as much if not more already and is only 20

I like BYnum but how can he be more valuable if he doesn't have the stamina to stay on the court??

houseofcain
09-10-2008, 03:24 PM
I voted for Bynum for what he has done on the court at such a young age and because of the lack of talent at a position which once dominated basketball. Until Jordan it was thought you couldn't win without a legitmate low post threat.

knicks1214
09-10-2008, 03:31 PM
I voted for Bynum for what he has done on the court at such a young age and because of the lack of talent at a position which once dominated basketball. Until Jordan it was thought you couldn't win without a legitmate low post threat.

Even when another center on the list has more overall talent NOW you vote for the younger one because he is younger...age should NOT play a part on this poll...

LeonFSU
09-10-2008, 03:54 PM
Of the remaining centers:


C with the Best post game: Shaquille O'Neal
C with the best man to man defense: Shaquille O'Neal
C with the most experience, basketball IQ, court savvy: Shaquille O'Neal
C with the best weak side defense: Marcus Camby or Tyson Chandler
C that draws the most attention on offense opening up shots for teammates: Shaquille O'Neal
C that is the best passer: Shaquille O'Neal
C that is best in pick and rolls: Chandler
Best Offensive rebounding center: Biedrins, Chandler, or Dalembert
Best Defensive rebounding center: Camby

My vote goes for Shaq. Jermaine O'Neal has never and is still is not better than Shaq, and although Kaman may sometimes produce better stats, I don't think his overall impact on the game and his ability to help his team win exceeds Shaq's.

Vinny642
09-10-2008, 04:04 PM
Just give Bynum the 4th best so Lakers fans stop *****ing

bogdanrom
09-10-2008, 04:11 PM
Andrew Bynum. I have explained why in the previous #4 thread so I will just copy and paste some stats I threw around there.

Andrew Bynum against Bogut:

25 points, 17 rebounds, 3 blocked shots, 77% shooting

Andrew Bynum against Amare:

28 points, 12 rebounds, 2 blocked shots, 85% shooting

14 points, 13 rebounds, 1 blocked shot, 70% shooting

Andrew Bynum against Andris Biedrins:

20 points, 11 rebounds, 5 blocked shots, 65% shooting

17 points, 16 rebounds, 1 blocked shot, 80% shooting

Andrew Bynum against Marcus Camby:

12 points, 13 rebounds, 1 blocked shot, 63% shooting

Andrew Bynum against Chris Kaman:

14 points, 9 rebounds, 6 blocked shots, 79% shooting

Andrew Bynum against Jermaine O'neal:

17 points, 10 rebounds, 4 blocked shots, 100% shooting (Jermaine shot 30%)

Andrew Bynum against Samuel Dalembert:

17 points, 16 rebounds, 3 blocked shots, 75% shooting

OK, So if he did so good against he better centers in the league(with the stats that you provided he averaged 18.2 PPG, 13RPG, 2.89 BPG, and a 77%FG) doesn't that mean he got crushed or sucked against the other, lesser centers? You can't just take a bunch of games and use that to say that Bynum is better. Brandan Haywood averaged like a 18 and 13 during the first couple of games. So that makes him better than Bynum or Kaman? Hell no. And to anyone who is saying that Bynum has potential and that he's young the question asks right now.

Chronz
09-10-2008, 04:34 PM
OK, So if he did so good against he better centers in the league(with the stats that you provided he averaged 18.2 PPG, 13RPG, 2.89 BPG, and a 77%FG) doesn't that mean he got crushed or sucked against the other, lesser centers? You can't just take a bunch of games and use that to say that Bynum is better. Brandan Haywood averaged like a 18 and 13 during the first couple of games. So that makes him better than Bynum or Kaman? Hell no. And to anyone who is saying that Bynum has potential and that he's young the question asks right now.

Right now he has the potential to surpass Kaman as early as next year. **** what he did last year was up there with Kaman, its just that it was only 30 games so people doubt him.

DeeJay
09-10-2008, 04:40 PM
My vote goes to Camby.

Corey
09-10-2008, 04:52 PM
Whoever listed all of Bynum's stats against the "good" centers in the league...Just take a peek at what he did against Perkins this year:

(regular season)
Game 1: 4 pts, 9 rebs, 4 fouls, 2/7 from field
Game 2: 8 pts, 2 rebs, fouled out, 22 mins played

Hmm...

Nighthawk
09-10-2008, 05:08 PM
Whoever listed all of Bynum's stats against the "good" centers in the league...Just take a peek at what he did against Perkins this year:

(regular season)
Game 1: 4 pts, 9 rebs, 4 fouls, 2/7 from field
Game 2: 8 pts, 2 rebs, fouled out, 22 mins played

Hmm...

Perkins is very underrated imo. On defense i think he can match up with anyone. His weaknesses come on offense. Perk barely gives you scoring if any. It comes in random spurts where one game its a monster double double then the next night he's non-exsistant. With the Big 3 we dont need him scoring though. Perk can shut down other bigs with his defense. Im sure Perks offensive stats probably wernt that good either. But i'll say it again on defense KP43 IS A BEAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vinny642
09-10-2008, 05:33 PM
Perkins is very underrated imo. On defense i think he can match up with anyone. His weaknesses come on offense. Perk barely gives you scoring if any. It comes in random spurts where one game its a monster double double then the next night he's non-exsistant. With the Big 3 we dont need him scoring though. Perk can shut down other bigs with his defense. Im sure Perks offensive stats probably wernt that good either. But i'll say it again on defense KP43 IS A BEAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AHH EHHH EWWW I cant stand that garbage Perkins, he isnt close to a beast and he got an attitude problem...

Vinny642
09-10-2008, 05:35 PM
I guess your counting Tim Duncan as PF?if so then my top 5 is:

1. Amare Stoudemire
2. Dwight Howard
3. Yao Ming
4. Al Jefferson
5. Andrew Bynum

Amare is a PF now....

1. Dwight or Yao
2. Dwight or Yao
3. Al Jefferson
4. Chris Kaman
5. Marcus Camby

astrosmaniac
09-10-2008, 05:39 PM
astrosmaniac please stop being a hater and stop ****ing up with people post do your own business and dont butt in other people's votes in not your job u hater
im not being a hater, they made an argument and i pointed out why i think that argument is flawed

lol...good point. it is Odom, but w/e he is better than his 9th rank. he is just soft. but as far as bynum. your biggest argument is that he didnt play a full season. what if he did? what would all you haters be saying then? It seems to me that anyone that likes or respects bynum is all of a sudden a laker homer and everyone else is just a hater. there is no median in your eyes. u got the median. im about as unbiased as it gets. I'm sceptical about everyone and everything. even CP3 because it just seemed too fast. and yes, I am sceptical of bynum, but what he did does put him at number 4 considering he was only getting better and more involved b4 the injury and that the center position is very weak.
i respect bynum. i do, i think he is #6 or 7 right now, and if he had done those numbers over a full season, then id vote him #4 in an ainstant, but he hasnt done that yet


No big deal...I think Bynum will be the 4th best center in the NBA, you think it will be Kaman. I have no problem with that. To say that people with NBA knowledge wouldn't ever say Bynum will be the 4th best center this season is ridiculous though. I think he'll put up the kind of numbers Kaman will put up, but with much better D, about 15% better shooting from the field, and as a 3rd option.
he thinks hell be #3 in a few years, and so does eveyone else, just not yet

BRADfromOZ
09-10-2008, 05:48 PM
Here is the UPDATE: We will do the poll once more, I will still include Bynum in this poll.. Though I will not take your VOTE unless you provide an argument why you are voting for that player. I supsect people are voting based on BYnum's potential and not what he has done in the league so far. If you want to vote for someone make an argument for that player, I dont want to have just homers voting for Bynum and not explaining why he is being selected. I repeat this is not based on POTENTIAL but ON SKILL and what the player is doing right now in the LEAGUE. At the bottom of your post just tell people who you voted for. Thanks for understanding!
:clap::clap::clap: But it looks like it didn't work.

Tyson Chandler for me, he's a consistent double double, shoots a high FG% and averages almost 2 blocks per game.

S.J.Basketball
09-10-2008, 05:55 PM
Thread closes in a few hours. The same guy is in the lead by 5 votes. Way to waste time.

Haterism causes recounts....

Lakersfan2483
09-10-2008, 06:04 PM
Shaq

crew158
09-10-2008, 06:19 PM
Andrew, last year, held tim duncan to 5 pts. 5 pts! He also dominated, offensively and defensively, Tyson Chandler, who is a underrated center. Thats just a couple of instances off the top of my head. He has shown, so far, a soft touch around the basket, great rebounding, and great shot blocking. Centers around the league have all kind of trouble shooting over the guy. And he is only gonna get better. By the end of the year he WILL be in the conversation w/ Yao and Dwight. Drew is better than Jefferson, who has no D and avg. 20+ on one of the worst teams in the league. Charles Smith avg. 20ppg when he was on a crappy team too (Clipps). Stop hating on the dude and just watch him dominate your favorite teams center.

crew158
09-10-2008, 06:20 PM
Shaq, lol, maybe like 2 yrs ago. He is through

Vinny642
09-10-2008, 06:24 PM
Andrew, last year, held tim duncan to 5 pts. 5 pts! He also dominated, offensively and defensively, Tyson Chandler, who is a underrated center. Thats just a couple of instances off the top of my head. He has shown, so far, a soft touch around the basket, great rebounding, and great shot blocking. Centers around the league have all kind of trouble shooting over the guy. And he is only gonna get better. By the end of the year he WILL be in the conversation w/ Yao and Dwight. Drew is better than Jefferson, who has no D and avg. 20+ on one of the worst teams in the league. Charles Smith avg. 20ppg when he was on a crappy team too (Clipps). Stop hating on the dude and just watch him dominate your favorite teams center.

He dominated Chandler LOL yea right

_Sn1P3r_
09-10-2008, 06:34 PM
Voted for Shaq by accident 'cause cpu acting up on me again. I meant to vote for Kaman here. Oh and btw, Bynum's winning again.

Nighthawk
09-10-2008, 06:40 PM
AHH EHHH EWWW I cant stand that garbage Perkins, he isnt close to a beast and he got an attitude problem...

Dont really care if you can stand em or not dude. I doubt you watch Celtic basketball or even pay any attention to Perk. He defense is really good. Helping defense, straight up man, he can defend. On offense ill agree he's garbage. Theres lots of room to improve. But how can you deny the mans defense.

Vinny642
09-10-2008, 07:03 PM
Dont really care if you can stand em or not dude. I doubt you watch Celtic basketball or even pay any attention to Perk. He defense is really good. Helping defense, straight up man, he can defend. On offense ill agree he's garbage. Theres lots of room to improve. But how can you deny the mans defense.

He defense is OK but i dont like his attitude, he better watch hisself before he gets beat down

dre1990
09-10-2008, 07:04 PM
Tyson Chandler, but it could go to kamen