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View Full Version : Anyone think the Sixers are heavily overrated



Frank Costanza
09-04-2008, 11:29 AM
I dont know if its just me but Im not sold on Elton Brand making the sixers a top 3 team in the east. I dont think they have enough of a full team around them to be considered as good or if not better than teams like the PIstons who altough aging are still an elite team, the Magic who finihsed 3rd last yr and won a divisoin title and not to mention their division rivals the Toronto Raptors who already had a better team then the sixers and added a player of equal if not greater status in Jermaine Oneal . I think sixers fan have a right to be excited but the rest of the out of market fan base is on crack if they think philly finishes with home court adv

Brosiff
09-04-2008, 11:51 AM
I am a sixers fan so i wont really touch this one 2 much, since it seems like you want fans outside of the sixers to react to this, but i will say this. I would take Elton Brand any day of the week over Jermaine O'neal. Plus i believe we have a very good core that can compete with anyone in the East. That being said i still think we have a little work to do to be the best, or wait it out till the Celtics get 2 old ;)

JMan17
09-04-2008, 12:13 PM
I dont know if its just me but Im not sold on Elton Brand making the sixers a top 3 team in the east. I dont think they have enough of a full team around them to be considered as good or if not better than teams like the PIstons who altough aging are still an elite team, the Magic who finihsed 3rd last yr and won a divisoin title and not to mention their division rivals the Toronto Raptors who already had a better team then the sixers and added a player of equal if not greater status in Jermaine Oneal . I think sixers fan have a right to be excited but the rest of the out of market fan base is on crack if they think philly finishes with home court adv

equal then Jermaine Oneal? are you high???

MJRiley26
09-04-2008, 12:20 PM
Look beyond the Elton Brand signing and see a more experienced Thaddeus Young, Andre Iguodala proving that he deserved his contract, Dalembert gaining a formidable big man to compliment his play, and Andre Miller gaining more talent to distribute to. Moreover, the addition of solid bench players like Royal Ivey, Kareem Rush, and Donyell Marshall.

I admit that I have been taken aback by some of the predictions out-of-towners are making about the Sixers' success this year, but on paper all looks good and that is all anyone has to go by right now.

Reezy
09-04-2008, 12:20 PM
If the Sixers got Jermaine O'Neal and the Raptors got Elton Brand, which team do you think would get more press?

agobbi17
09-04-2008, 12:22 PM
Actually i dont think their overrated at all. They had a good squad last year who played very well against houston which i recall the best. They just added Elton Brand to the mix so this season should be somethin great to watch. Look out for the 76ers.

JIDsanity
09-04-2008, 12:24 PM
Slightly, their core doesn't seem to be complete

rhino17
09-04-2008, 12:37 PM
yes, very overrated

FNM BOY
09-04-2008, 12:37 PM
Starting Five:

Miller
Iggy
Young
Brand
Sammy

Bench:
Lou
Evans
Rush
Ivey
Ratliff
Marhsall
Speights
Green

Solid team..with a solid bench...will be better than last year. Not overrated!! Go Sixers!

mrblisterdundee
09-04-2008, 12:42 PM
Every team that gets hyped before they prove themselves in play is overrated.

JordansBulls
09-04-2008, 12:51 PM
I dont know if its just me but Im not sold on Elton Brand making the sixers a top 3 team in the east. I dont think they have enough of a full team around them to be considered as good or if not better than teams like the PIstons who altough aging are still an elite team, the Magic who finihsed 3rd last yr and won a divisoin title and not to mention their division rivals the Toronto Raptors who already had a better team then the sixers and added a player of equal if not greater status in Jermaine Oneal . I think sixers fan have a right to be excited but the rest of the out of market fan base is on crack if they think philly finishes with home court adv

To me Boston is alone in the East and everyone else is fighting to knock them off and anyone can be the next best team in the east between Detroit (usually at the top), Cleveland, Washington, Philly, Orlando, Toronto and believe it or not Miami.

agobbi17
09-04-2008, 12:56 PM
i'd have to agree with you jordansbulls

29$JerZ
09-04-2008, 12:59 PM
Philly will be a lot better If healthy but a top 3 team is going a bit far. Detroit, Cleveland, Boston, Toronto IMO are all better than Philly. Philly should be a 5th seed or 6th depending on the play of Wizards.

qwestion13
09-04-2008, 01:08 PM
The talent is there, but they have to put it all together. I can see why some people would pick them to finish top 3, and I can see why people would think they are overrated.

I won't even give my opinion, I think you know where my loyalty is. But until the season is underway, there is no way to judge.

Frank Costanza
09-04-2008, 01:12 PM
equal then Jermaine Oneal? are you high???

NOt right now, at work, but maybe later. OK i know i may have offended some ppl in here . I like the guy who said what would we think if toronot go brand and philly got jermaine, honeslty becasue elton is undersized and it would move bosh to 5, i wouldnt like it as much and would maybe rank them as equal but Jermaine can play center and I do believe once he plays a full season ppl will forget a couple injuries of the past and realy judge him on his skills, not a recent image thanks though for the replies, all good stuff

spechtacular18
09-04-2008, 01:25 PM
i know you dont want philly fans in here, but i would just like to say that if the team last year could play with detroit and scare them a little bit, then why cant they be better than what they were last year? especially with the people they added to this team i tihnk they can definitely compete for one of the top spots. by no means am i saying they are a definite top 3 team, but i think that they should be given some credit for what they did last year and the people they added on where they had wholes. obviously it is before the season is even started, so let them play it out and finish peoples thoughts

Dol-Fan
09-04-2008, 01:25 PM
I think the Sixers are being overrated right now, they haven't even played a game with Brand and they're being projected to be at the top of the EC very prematurely. Iggy is good but not great, very good on the break but not a half court player. Brand, on the other hand, is a half court player very much. I'm still not sold on how well the players on the Sixers compliment Brand. They need a 3pt sniper at the 2 instead of Iggy and Thad as their wingmen, they don't have enough handles or shooting ability. Teams may be able to collapse on them. One guy I love is Lou Williams, if he can continue to improve he will have a massive impact on their bench. Reggie Evans is real nice as well.

Brand has been great over his career but I can't understand why people rate him so high above Jermaine O'Neal. I understand that Jermaine is a MUCH bigger injury concern however if he is healthy (TRULY healthy as he was 2-3 years ago) he will put up the same type of numbers as Brand with maybe a little more scoring and not quite as much rebounding. They were really on the same echelon a few years back so it doesn't make sense to me when people laugh at the comparison.

Tha Truth
09-04-2008, 01:44 PM
Fans are just a little too hyped.

They'll be better than last year though.

prash
09-04-2008, 01:45 PM
equal then Jermaine Oneal? are you high???
buahahahaha

Obviously Brand has been a far more consistent 20-10 guy than O'Neal, but O'Neal is still solid PF-C & in Toronto he could be a tough cover on Brand once the season starts.

Phiilli vs Toronto will be good games to watch.

SeoulBeatz
09-04-2008, 01:50 PM
me being a sixers fan, i wont say whether or not i think this team is being overrated.


I see them being the 4th-6th seed in the Eastern Conference.

All i would like to say is we took Detroit to 6 games last season, without a true post presence and no bench.

Now we have Elton Brand, Kareem Rush, Theo Ratliff, Donyell Marshall and Marreese Speights to shore up the bench, along with scorers Lou Williams, Reggie Evans and Wille Green.

Oh yeah, throw in Andre Iguodala, Andre Miller, Thaddeus Young, and Samuel Dalembert.

i dont see why this team would finish any less than 5th most likely.

Its a three way tie between Orlando Cleveland Toronto and Philly for the 3-6 spots, it should be fun.

fresh prince
09-04-2008, 03:05 PM
I dont know if its just me but Im not sold on Elton Brand making the sixers a top 3 team in the east. I dont think they have enough of a full team around them to be considered as good or if not better than teams like the PIstons who altough aging are still an elite team, the Magic who finihsed 3rd last yr and won a divisoin title and not to mention their division rivals the Toronto Raptors who already had a better team then the sixers and added a player of equal if not greater status in Jermaine Oneal . I think sixers fan have a right to be excited but the rest of the out of market fan base is on crack if they think philly finishes with home court adv

Youre kidding right? Jermaine Oneal shoots 42% from the field as PF-C and is lucky to play half the season. Elton is a model of health except for last year and consistently puts up around 20 and 10 with a high fg%

ElTON is also a better low post defender due to being stronger and having a better base than JO. Jo gets alot of weak side blocks but so does Elton. Elton is more likely to force the opposing big to work for his points.

The Sixers will be a top 3 team in the east. I don't think they are ovverated at all.

MiamiHeat
09-04-2008, 03:16 PM
I don't think they are heavily overrated
but they are overrated, maybe the fans overrated way too much
and is hype too.

JMan17
09-04-2008, 03:18 PM
buahahahaha

Obviously Brand has been a far more consistent 20-10 guy than O'Neal, but O'Neal is still solid PF-C & in Toronto he could be a tough cover on Brand once the season starts.

Phiilli vs Toronto will be good games to watch.

Oneal can play PF and Center, but same with Josh Smith, he can SF and PF but does that make him better then lebron James? O'neal would be as good IF he was actually healthy and PLAYS FOR ONE FULL F***ING SEASON! But that's not the case.

CHief_0_o_Wahoo
09-04-2008, 03:19 PM
They are very overrated.

GCOOKIE7
09-04-2008, 03:31 PM
all i know is Bosh + O'Neal > Brand + Dalembert

GCOOKIE7
09-04-2008, 03:31 PM
much better

Afridi786
09-04-2008, 03:32 PM
all i know is Bosh + O'Neal > Brand + Dalembert

True.

GCOOKIE7
09-04-2008, 03:34 PM
Calderone > Miller
there goes the positions that mater most

fresh prince
09-04-2008, 03:58 PM
Calderone > Miller
there goes the positions that mater most

Thats true but individual math ups don't make teams better than one another.

Lakers vs. Celtics

Fisher> Rando
Kobe > Allen
Radmonovic <Peirce
Odom< KG
Gasol> Perkins

The Lakers were individually better (very slightly in the case of Fisher v Rando) than the Celtics but we all saw how that turned out. Individual match ups aren't as important as how a team is constructed the Sixers are the far superior defensive team and there players compliment each other better than the Raps

IndyRealist
09-04-2008, 03:58 PM
Youre kidding right? Jermaine Oneal shoots 42% from the field as PF-C and is lucky to play half the season. Elton is a model of health except for last year and consistently puts up around 20 and 10 with a high fg%

ElTON is also a better low post defender due to being stronger and having a better base than JO. Jo gets alot of weak side blocks but so does Elton. Elton is more likely to force the opposing big to work for his points.

The Sixers will be a top 3 team in the east. I don't think they are ovverated at all.

Since coming to Indiana JO had 3 injured seasons, out of 8. His most recent relatively uninjured season he played 69 games in '06-'07, and averaged 19.4ppg, 9.6rpg, 2.6bpg, 2.4apg and shot .436 from the field. His field goal percentage was the second lowest of the career and was due to the system, not the player. He has NEVER shot .420 in his entire career, so I have no idea where you're getting your numbers.
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jermaine_oneal/career_stats.html

Brand's most recent uninjured season he averaged 20.5ppg, 9.3rpg, 2.2bpg, 2.9apg with a .533 FG percentage. Brand is more efficient than JO, true, but with O'Neal in a different system I expect his FG % to rise dramatically, and so statistically there isn't much difference between Brand and JO.

The major difference between the two of them is that JO is 6'11" 260lb, and Brand is 6'8" 258lb. Brand has a power game but he's short, JO has a finesse game and he's tall. If you're comparing microscopic differences in stats, then Brand is a slightly better scorer and passer, O'Neal is a slightly better rebounder and shot blocker. Just thought I should clear that up.

I do, in fact, think that the 76'ers are overrated. They did put together a good run at the end of the year to make the playoffs, but for 3/4 of the season they were as dysfunctional as the Pacers. It's hard to tell if they won alot of games because the team gelled, or because other teams were tanking/resting their stars. And before anyone gets all pissy because I said it, YES, teams were tanking and resting their stars at the end of the season. How much that accounted for wins, who knows. They were playing hard when everyone else was coasting though, and that's something to be proud of. They did put a scare into Detriot, but Detriot underestimated them and was caught unaware. Eventually Detriot got their act together and closed them out. Part of their offseason success could be because there wasn't any really good scouting on how Philly was playing, so it was harder to prepare for them. Just sayin'. If they're playoff success carries over into this season, then they're a top 5 EC team. Top 3 is a stretch considering they haven't really addressed their outside shooting deficiencies, or their general lack of depth. Besides Brand, I'm not excited about their offseason acquisitions, and their draft picks could be the next Al Horford....or the next Adam Morrison.

I hope things work out in Philly, but they are overrated. And no, I'm not hating, I'm a Pacers fan. I've got no right to hate on anyone. My team hasn't done squat in four years.

RoyalG333
09-04-2008, 04:07 PM
Watching plenty of Elton Brand here in LA, I say he is DEFINITELY going to help the Sixers. Not only that, with Iquodala in the mix, the Sixers have a shot at at least making the ECF. Think about how they stunned Detroit early in the playoffs.

Miller/Ivey/Williams
Iguodala/Green/Rush
Young/Evans/Smith
Brand/Marshall/Speights
Dalembert/Ratliff

Solid Starting 5 with good veteran guys off the bench in Marshall, Ratliff, Evans. It will be interesting to see the chemistry.

DerekRE_3
09-04-2008, 04:26 PM
Also Thaddeus Young was just a rookie last year, I expect him to be even better next year.

BowDown32
09-04-2008, 04:59 PM
Solid team, but they have to gel. A lot of rookies got playing time last year that they may not get with additions of Brand, Evans, Marshall and Ivey. Rookies sometimes come off the bench and feel they need to score the ball and mess up chemistry. I'm a Raps fan and I'm pissed that the Atlantic just keeps getting better and yes the Sixers are gonna be a tough game everytime we play them. There is a reason for all the hype, but I don't think they are as good as everyone says they are AND I feel the same about the Raps. I think either team could bust out, it all depends on chemistry.

futureman
09-04-2008, 05:03 PM
Sixers NO
Rockets YES

97'bulls
09-04-2008, 05:12 PM
yes

hockeypro68
09-04-2008, 05:23 PM
I dont know if its just me but Im not sold on Elton Brand making the sixers a top 3 team in the east. I dont think they have enough of a full team around them to be considered as good or if not better than teams like the PIstons who altough aging are still an elite team, the Magic who finihsed 3rd last yr and won a divisoin title and not to mention their division rivals the Toronto Raptors who already had a better team then the sixers and added a player of equal if not greater status in Jermaine Oneal . I think sixers fan have a right to be excited but the rest of the out of market fan base is on crack if they think philly finishes with home court adv


I am 100% in agreement with you. I feel that the addition of a healthy Arenas to the Wizards, JO to the Raptors, Mo Williams to the Cavs, and Pietrus to the already solid Magic will mean the Sixers are going to be 5th seed at best next season, I've always felt that way. Brand is solid, but he's coming off of basically a season ending injury. I love Iggy and both Speights and Thaddeus Young show promise, but the East has stepped it up this offseason, the 76ers are not quite there yet.

BADizzleBoY
09-04-2008, 05:26 PM
I think the Sixers are being overrated right now, they haven't even played a game with Brand and they're being projected to be at the top of the EC very prematurely. Iggy is good but not great, very good on the break but not a half court player. Brand, on the other hand, is a half court player very much. I'm still not sold on how well the players on the Sixers compliment Brand. They need a 3pt sniper at the 2 instead of Iggy and Thad as their wingmen, they don't have enough handles or shooting ability. Teams may be able to collapse on them. One guy I love is Lou Williams, if he can continue to improve he will have a massive impact on their bench. Reggie Evans is real nice as well.

Brand has been great over his career but I can't understand why people rate him so high above Jermaine O'Neal. I understand that Jermaine is a MUCH bigger injury concern however if he is healthy (TRULY healthy as he was 2-3 years ago) he will put up the same type of numbers as Brand with maybe a little more scoring and not quite as much rebounding. They were really on the same echelon a few years back so it doesn't make sense to me when people laugh at the comparison.

:confused:
I watch the sixers 82 games a season, so I know what I'm talking about when I say, you obviously don't know anything about our team.

1. That makes NO SENSE considering that the fast break starts with being good at both playing offense/defense in the half court. If he is good on the break, then he has to be as good playing halfcourt offense/defense?
2. Okay, Brand is a dominating player on the post. He will always demand the double team, either leaving Dalembert open on the otherside, Miller for the jumpshot, Iguodala on the wing, or Thad in the key, WIDE OPEN. When this team won games, Dalembert got double teamed. This team has Iguodala, Miller, Young, Dalembert, Marshall, Ratliff, Evans, & Green to all compliment that guy.
3. Because Jermaine, has been injured and not a tip top shape for about 3 or 4 years now, and yes people will say "Brand just go off an injury". Yes he did, but not as bad as Jermaine has, he basically has had 4 surgeries plus as many tears. Jermaine is a death sentence too a team, bad attitude and has been known for slacking off. People seem to forget that this is the same guy who threw punches at innocent fans at the palace.

bogdanrom
09-04-2008, 05:34 PM
I think they are overrated but not heavily. They have a good squad but not top 3 even in the East. And the fans are just hyped up and they have to support their team.

$ NyC $
09-04-2008, 05:52 PM
i think they gettin a top 4 seed 4 sure

BigRudy345
09-04-2008, 06:09 PM
PHilly is GOOD BUT OVERRATED BY FAR

IndyRealist
09-04-2008, 08:33 PM
:confused:
I watch the sixers 82 games a season, so I know what I'm talking about when I say, you obviously don't know anything about our team.

1. That makes NO SENSE considering that the fast break starts with being good at both playing offense/defense in the half court. If he is good on the break, then he has to be as good playing halfcourt offense/defense?
2. Okay, Brand is a dominating player on the post. He will always demand the double team, either leaving Dalembert open on the otherside, Miller for the jumpshot, Iguodala on the wing, or Thad in the key, WIDE OPEN. When this team won games, Dalembert got double teamed. This team has Iguodala, Miller, Young, Dalembert, Marshall, Ratliff, Evans, & Green to all compliment that guy.
3. Because Jermaine, has been injured and not a tip top shape for about 3 or 4 years now, and yes people will say "Brand just go off an injury". Yes he did, but not as bad as Jermaine has, he basically has had 4 surgeries plus as many tears. Jermaine is a death sentence too a team, bad attitude and has been known for slacking off. People seem to forget that this is the same guy who threw punches at innocent fans at the palace.

Funny, because I'd say that with all the time spent watching Sixers games, you didn't watch very many Pacer games with O'Neal playing. In '06-'07 he played 69 games averaging 19+ ppg, 9+ rpg, and 2.6bpg. O'Neal had repeatedly said that he did not want to be on a rebuilding team, and that if the Pacers were to rebuild, he would like to be traded to a contender, as a show of respect for what he's done for the franchise. That's what they did. Yes he was injured for basically 3 of the 8 years he was with the Pacers, but that amounted to two injuries, one shoulder and one knee. The knee injury reoccurred over the course of the four years, because he wanted to be on the court and came back without fully healing. Doesn't sound like a slacker to me.

I have watched my fair share of Sixers games, and I will say that I also don't think that the team is constructed to complement Brand. Philly has not played inside-out basketball since Barkley was there. For Brand to be effective you dump the ball into him in the post. That minimizes both Miller's passing and Igoudala's slashing ability. When Brand gets doubled and passes out of the post, who's going to take the jumper? Miller shoots 20% for his career 3pt%. I like Louis Williams, but he seems close to his maximum potential. Kareem Rush is a career backup and one-trick pony. He can shoot the three. And he's streaky. I should know, he was a Pacer last year.

What I see happening is Brand being doubled in the post by either Dalembert's man, or Miller's man. Each other player stays on his man. If Brand passes to Sam, the paint is clogged with 3 players, and they force him to take a jumper. Not his strength. If he passes out to Miller, the doubler cuts off the lane makes Miller pass or take the jumper (20% on 3's, remember). If he passes to anyone else, they already have a man on them, and the paint still has 3 players in it. If AI or Young get past their man, there are still two defenders in the paint, plus Brand in the way. Ask Nash if having Shaq in the paint all the time is helping with his ability to penetrate the defense.

The Sixers were best last year on the break, being quicker and more athletic than the competition. With Brand and Dalembert on the floor at the same time, you've got two players rebounding to start the break, but two players not running the break, either. And Andre Miller isn't the full-court outlet pass kinda PG. Maybe they'll work it out. But I think Brand is going to have to work to accomodate the team more than the other way around.

Nets fan 93
09-04-2008, 08:39 PM
I dont think EB is as good as everyone thinks... maybe he will have a good season though... I dont know... they are still a good team and he is a huge upgrade over Evans... we will just have to wait and see........

kylem4711
09-04-2008, 08:40 PM
yes they are overrated.
i dont see how people are comparing oneal and brand though.
brand is a 4, oneal is going to be a 5

Dol-Fan
09-04-2008, 08:42 PM
Funny, because I'd say that with all the time spent watching Sixers games, you didn't watch very many Pacer games with O'Neal playing. In '06-'07 he played 69 games averaging 19+ ppg, 9+ rpg, and 2.6bpg. O'Neal had repeatedly said that he did not want to be on a rebuilding team, and that if the Pacers were to rebuild, he would like to be traded to a contender, as a show of respect for what he's done for the franchise. That's what they did. Yes he was injured for basically 3 of the 8 years he was with the Pacers, but that amounted to two injuries, one shoulder and one knee. The knee injury reoccurred over the course of the four years, because he wanted to be on the court and came back without fully healing. Doesn't sound like a slacker to me.

I have watched my fair share of Sixers games, and I will say that I also don't think that the team is constructed to complement Brand. Philly has not played inside-out basketball since Barkley was there. For Brand to be effective you dump the ball into him in the post. That minimizes both Miller's passing and Igoudala's slashing ability. When Brand gets doubled and passes out of the post, who's going to take the jumper? Miller shoots 20% for his career 3pt%. I like Louis Williams, but he seems close to his maximum potential. Kareem Rush is a career backup and one-trick pony. He can shoot the three. And he's streaky. I should know, he was a Pacer last year.

What I see happening is Brand being doubled in the post by either Dalembert's man, or Miller's man. Each other player stays on his man. If Brand passes to Sam, the paint is clogged with 3 players, and they force him to take a jumper. Not his strength. If he passes out to Miller, the doubler cuts off the lane makes Miller pass or take the jumper (20% on 3's, remember). If he passes to anyone else, they already have a man on them, and the paint still has 3 players in it. If AI or Young get past their man, there are still two defenders in the paint, plus Brand in the way. Ask Nash if having Shaq in the paint all the time is helping with his ability to penetrate the defense.

The Sixers were best last year on the break, being quicker and more athletic than the competition. With Brand and Dalembert on the floor at the same time, you've got two players rebounding to start the break, but two players not running the break, either. And Andre Miller isn't the full-court outlet pass kinda PG. Maybe they'll work it out. But I think Brand is going to have to work to accomodate the team more than the other way around.

I was just about to post basically the exact same thing, but I'd like to thank you for adding a few years on to the use of my fingers :)

I'd just like to add on, that Jermaine does NOT have a bad attitude, he is grouped in with Artest, Jackson and Tinsley but really has been recognized as one of the best players in the community, twice winning the NBA community assist award. He is recognized as a great leader and a great team mate and only punched a fan when the FAN ran on to the court. Jermaine did not enter the stands so the poster who was quoted really needs to study Jermaine's past a little bit better. People forget that Jermaine's last healthy season was only 2 years ago when he put on 19+, 9+ and 2.5+. If he puts up those numbers on the Raptors for 70 games they will be a top 3 team.

Ph1lly Diehard
09-04-2008, 09:15 PM
I wont even say my opinion, because we all know what it is. People in the 76ers forum including myself all have around the same expectations. We all expect a 1st round win in the playoffs, and after that anything can go. We expect a 3-5 seed, 2 if everything goes right.

First of all though, I just want the "76ers have no 3 point shooting" to just stop talking. Really, just stop it. If you guys havn't noticed, we added Kareem Rush, who has always been a good 3 point shooter, and we recently added Donyell Marshall. Sure he won't get many minutes, sure he is 35 years old, but that won't effect his shot. Look at steve kerr, brent berry, robert horry. All of these guys came in and were basically only for strickly 3 point shooters from the very ends of there careers, and they still are.

Ok, i'm done with this. It just annoys me when people think were overrated when we have a good starting 5, and one of the best benches in the league, if not the best.

Cavs_Fan24
09-04-2008, 09:19 PM
i think the Sixers are overrated. Not saying they're not a good team cuz they definitely are, im actually a pretty big fan of them. but they'r not gonna be a top 3 team in the east

Ph1lly Diehard
09-04-2008, 09:22 PM
i think the Sixers are overrated. Not saying they're not a good team cuz they definitely are, im actually a pretty big fan of them. but they'r not gonna be a top 3 team in the east

I need to say 1 last thing.

I have noticed in this thread that around 4 Cavalier fans have posted, and all have said they are overrated. I know that you guys are going under the radar, and the 76ers are getting ranked higher then you, but who cares? I know that's the main reason, because it's been said before in other threads.

We are getting more press because we signed Elton Brand, and had the best offseason by any NBA team this year, and it's not an arguement really.

#1Mavericksfan
09-04-2008, 09:31 PM
There not overrated there underrated if you ask me...there team is stacked with young guys and vets which is not a bad thing at all.

Dol-Fan
09-04-2008, 09:33 PM
I wont even say my opinion, because we all know what it is. People in the 76ers forum including myself all have around the same expectations. We all expect a 1st round win in the playoffs, and after that anything can go. We expect a 3-5 seed, 2 if everything goes right.

First of all though, I just want the "76ers have no 3 point shooting" to just stop talking. Really, just stop it. If you guys havn't noticed, we added Kareem Rush, who has always been a good 3 point shooter, and we recently added Donyell Marshall. Sure he won't get many minutes, sure he is 35 years old, but that won't effect his shot. Look at steve kerr, brent berry, robert horry. All of these guys came in and were basically only for strickly 3 point shooters from the very ends of there careers, and they still are.

Ok, i'm done with this. It just annoys me when people think were overrated when we have a good starting 5, and one of the best benches in the league, if not the best.

But Donyell isn't even that good at shooting anyway, and Rush is a bench warmer. You guys need a 3pt shooter in your starting lineup or else they won't have much of an impact. Don't get offended, everyone here is making a decent argument and no one is making stupid points. You really don't need to get annoyed, just because people are making points that might show the weak points of your favourite team.

And sorry, but the Sixers bench really isn't all that great. Evans and Lou are great but I'm not convinced with the rest of the bench. Speights could be special as well.

Hawkeye15
09-04-2008, 09:57 PM
1. Celtics
2. Pistons
3. Magic
4. Raptors
5. Cavs
6. Sixers
7. Wiz
8. Indiana

heyman321
09-04-2008, 09:58 PM
Haha, agreed. You Sixers fans think KAREEM RUSH AND DONYELL MARSHALL will make a difference? The only reason I knew Kareem Rush existed was because I googled Kareem Abdul Jabbar's name one time and he came up as well. He is a streaky shooter. Donyell Marshall really isn't a reliable three point shooter. He was barely effective with Lebron drawing all the D on the Cavs and I must say the 3 pt record while he was on the Raptors (I watched that game) was a total fluke when he was in a groove. I bet he can't make 5 threes in a game ever again.

But basically yes, I do agree Sixers are overrated right now. All arguments of JO being unhealthy and injured make no sense. "Oh Brand just came off a season ending injury, but we won't take that account because O'Neal got injured four times but still played and put up good stats." Basically, see IndyRealist's arguments. He is making good points that nobody can deny.

dre1990
09-04-2008, 10:13 PM
not heavily overrated, but kinda over rated. i say a 4th or 5th seed team

MJRiley26
09-04-2008, 10:44 PM
Funny, because I'd say that with all the time spent watching Sixers games, you didn't watch very many Pacer games with O'Neal playing. In '06-'07 he played 69 games averaging 19+ ppg, 9+ rpg, and 2.6bpg. O'Neal had repeatedly said that he did not want to be on a rebuilding team, and that if the Pacers were to rebuild, he would like to be traded to a contender, as a show of respect for what he's done for the franchise. That's what they did. Yes he was injured for basically 3 of the 8 years he was with the Pacers, but that amounted to two injuries, one shoulder and one knee. The knee injury reoccurred over the course of the four years, ]because he wanted to be on the court and came back without fully healing. Doesn't sound like a slacker to me. [/B]

I have watched my fair share of Sixers games, and I will say that I also don't think that the team is constructed to complement Brand. Philly has not played inside-out basketball since Barkley was there. For Brand to be effective you dump the ball into him in the post. That minimizes both Miller's passing and Igoudala's slashing ability. When Brand gets doubled and passes out of the post, who's going to take the jumper? Miller shoots 20% for his career 3pt%. I like Louis Williams, but he seems close to his maximum potential. Kareem Rush is a career backup and one-trick pony. He can shoot the three. And he's streaky. I should know, he was a Pacer last year.

What I see happening is Brand being doubled in the post by either Dalembert's man, or Miller's man. Each other player stays on his man. If Brand passes to Sam, the paint is clogged with 3 players, and they force him to take a jumper. Not his strength. If he passes out to Miller, the doubler cuts off the lane makes Miller pass or take the jumper (20% on 3's, remember). If he passes to anyone else, they already have a man on them, and the paint still has 3 players in it. If AI or Young get past their man, there are still two defenders in the paint, plus Brand in the way. Ask Nash if having Shaq in the paint all the time is helping with his ability to penetrate the defense.

The Sixers were best last year on the break, being quicker and more athletic than the competition. With Brand and Dalembert on the floor at the same time, you've got two players rebounding to start the break, but two players not running the break, either. And Andre Miller isn't the full-court outlet pass kinda PG. Maybe they'll work it out. But I think Brand is going to have to work to accomodate the team more than the other way around.

You're right, that sounds ill advised and stupid to come back from an injury without being fully healed.

As for Louis Williams, he is entering his fourth NBA season and his minutes have risen from 4.8MPG(1.9PPG) to 11.3MPG(4.3PPG) to 23.3MPG(11.5PPG) throughout his first three years. After signing a $25mil contract, I'd expect him to get even more minutes, thus increasing his points per game. If the Sixers had a 4th quarter MVP last season it would have been Lou. He comes off the bench with explosiveness and the ability to shift momentum in his team's direction. I am not trying to call you out, perhaps you see something I do not, but I am interested in why you believe he is so close to his maximum potential at such a young age in a young career?

phillyphan4ever
09-04-2008, 11:02 PM
lmao at all the nets, celtics, raptors, and cavs fans being pretty much the only 1's that think the Sixers are overrated

btw, this thread was already made

$KnicksAndKobe$
09-04-2008, 11:03 PM
If Miller plays well and Brand is back then Philly will get 4th seed or 3rd

Dol-Fan
09-04-2008, 11:14 PM
lmao at all the nets, celtics, raptors, and cavs fans being pretty much the only 1's that think the Sixers are overrated

btw, this thread was already made

Same argument could be made that only Sixers fans think they are NOT overrated. What do the Nets or Celtics have to be worried about? Celtics won't be challenged for the top seed by anyone, let alone Philly, and the Nets won't even sniff the playoffs.

Sorry, but that was kind of a useless post.

ruslan898
09-04-2008, 11:42 PM
I dont see how the sixers will allocate the playing time amongst so many players.

phillyphan4ever
09-05-2008, 12:53 AM
Same argument could be made that only Sixers fans think they are NOT overrated. What do the Nets or Celtics have to be worried about? Celtics won't be challenged for the top seed by anyone, let alone Philly, and the Nets won't even sniff the playoffs.

Sorry, but that was kind of a useless post.

well obviously i wouldnt call my own team overrated :crazy:

and the only reason you are saying it is because your a raptors fan

bigmac8675
09-05-2008, 02:06 AM
I think they are overrated... but they are still a good team and being in the east they really have a good chance of becoming a high seeded team (top 5).

Dol-Fan
09-05-2008, 07:11 AM
well obviously i wouldnt call my own team overrated :crazy:

and the only reason you are saying it is because your a raptors fan

That has nothing to do with it man, I actually loved watching Philly play at the end of last year and I'm excited to see how well Brand plays with them. I'm not a person who hates a team just because they are a divisional rival. In fact, because I get to see those rivals more often I get a better appreciation for that teams. But I gave some pretty good reasons if you took the time to read my posts. IndyRealist and I gave pretty similar points which are valid reasons why the Sixers have been being overrated this offseason. I'm not going to waste my energy but if you feel like checking them out for once it's a few pages back.

ertanozgur
09-05-2008, 07:31 AM
Starting Five:

Miller
Iggy
Young
Brand
Sammy

Bench:
Lou
Evans
Rush
Ivey
Ratliff
Marhsall
Speights
Green

Solid team..with a solid bench...will be better than last year. Not overrated!! Go Sixers!



i dont think they have a solid bench

Sixerlover
09-05-2008, 11:55 AM
Lou Will is a great 6th man and is due for even more of a breakout season this year (according to ESPN, and Nba.com), Reggie Evans + Willie Green were starters on the team last year and we made the playoffs, so obviously they have game coming off the bench. Check Rush's 3Pt %, Theo + Donyell are two seasoned vets who will produce. It's one of the better benches in the East IMO.

Sixerlover
09-05-2008, 11:57 AM
I don't understand why people think we're overrated actually. A team that had the 3rd best record in the East does nothing but adds a top 6 PF to the lineup (making the starters much stronger), and moves two starters from last year to the bench (making the bench much stronger), along with signing other bench pieces like Rush, Ratliff, Ivey and Marshall. We're a top 4 team in the East EASY.

JJ81
09-05-2008, 01:00 PM
I don't think they will be that great but lets wait until they actually play a game before we call them overrated.

pebloemer
09-05-2008, 01:39 PM
I don't understand why people think we're overrated actually. A team that had the 3rd best record in the East does nothing but adds a top 6 PF to the lineup (making the starters much stronger), and moves two starters from last year to the bench (making the bench much stronger), along with signing other bench pieces like Rush, Ratliff, Ivey and Marshall. We're a top 4 team in the East EASY.

Didn't Orlando have the third best record in the East?

CowboysKB24
09-05-2008, 01:47 PM
Sixers overrated? NO

knowledgeGOD
09-05-2008, 02:35 PM
yeah they are overrated

Ph1lly Diehard
09-05-2008, 02:54 PM
yeah they are overrated

Defend your case. As it stands your just saying it because your following what everyone else is saying, or because your a Raptors fan.

IndyRealist
09-05-2008, 03:01 PM
For the record, Philly had the 7th best record in 2007-2008, at 40-42. They were 3rd in their division, behind Boston and Toronto.
http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Div.html

Yes, Philly improved this year, but so did 3 of the teams who ranked ahead of them last year. Toronto added Jermaine O'Neal. Cleveland added Mo Williams. Washington added Gilbert Arenas. Boston is still ahead of them, as is Detroit. Orlando got more mature. I have them tied for 4th in the East with Toronto and behind Boston, Cleveland, and Detroit.

Vincent
09-05-2008, 03:16 PM
Toronto has a weaker bench, and a question mark in O'Neal (much bigger question mark than Elton Brand IMO)
Washington does not have the inside presence to make their team a top3 type team.
Orlando got better, but I always have troubles putting confidence in a team that relies so much on the 3pt shot and jumpers.
The Cavs are one ankle tweak from LeBron James to becoming a cellar team.
Detriot is another year older, which is becoming more and more noticable every year.
Boston is still the team to beat, but it remains to be seen if they can maintain that drive and intensity that they had last year.

I think it depends on who you ask, are they a number one or two seed in the East? Probably not. But are they a top 4 team in the East, will the most likely get homecourt advantage in the first round? I think yes.

MylesKong
09-05-2008, 03:38 PM
FACT: Sixers are best team in the East. Most people just don't know it yet.

Defensively, we are better than just about every team in the NBA. We have 4lockdown defenders in our starting 5. The exception is Miller.

Toronto wants to be Phoenix of a few years ago. The Sixers are working their way to becoming the new Detroit. Detroit added Sheed and it put them over the top. The Sixers added Brand, so I expect the same result.

Three point shooting is overrated. But we got a few guys that can help set-up that last shot of the quarter by stretching the D.

But the biggest reason of all is that Iguadala no longer needs to be THE GUY. That's not what he's suited for. He can focus on winning a game by shutting down a guy instead of making a jumper.

Sixerlover
09-05-2008, 04:05 PM
Didn't Orlando have the third best record in the East?

I said the 3rd best record after the all star break (Once Thad young started, and the Billy King fiasco was over)

AirJordanXVIII
09-05-2008, 04:06 PM
Wow. We finally have a productive offseason, and we get happy. Then you guys say the Sixers are overrated. Damn. Theres no way to impress you guys.....

AirJordanXVIII
09-05-2008, 04:08 PM
For the record, Philly had the 7th best record in 2007-2008, at 40-42. They were 3rd in their division, behind Boston and Toronto.
http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Div.html

Yes, Philly improved this year, but so did 3 of the teams who ranked ahead of them last year. Toronto added Jermaine O'Neal. Cleveland added Mo Williams. Washington added Gilbert Arenas. Boston is still ahead of them, as is Detroit. Orlando got more mature. I have them tied for 4th in the East with Toronto and behind Boston, Cleveland, and Detroit.

Brand to the Sixers is better than ONeal to the Raps or Mo to the Cavs. Well not better, but it benifits the team more...

And Washing never added Gilbert. They retained him. If they stay healthy they're contenders.

Sixerlover
09-05-2008, 04:11 PM
Brand to the Sixers is better than ONeal to the Raps or Mo to the Cavs. Well not better, but it benifits the team more...

And Washing never added Gilbert. They retained him. If they stay healthy they're contenders.

I don't believe that. They've had the same team for what 4 years now? And have they sniffed the conference finals once? I think that barring a trade or a Caron Butler explosion the Wizards small window is closed.

Dol-Fan
09-05-2008, 04:23 PM
Brand to the Sixers is better than ONeal to the Raps or Mo to the Cavs. Well not better, but it benifits the team more...

And Washing never added Gilbert. They retained him. If they stay healthy they're contenders.

Defend that...if you're speaking of injury concerns, you're right but statistically the Raptors only problems were defense, shot blocking and rebounding last year and O'Neal brings an abundance of all three of those. I think JO is the best fit on his new team out of the three but Brand is more of an impact player there is no denying that.


FACT: Sixers are best team in the East. Most people just don't know it yet.

Defensively, we are better than just about every team in the NBA. We have 4lockdown defenders in our starting 5. The exception is Miller.

Toronto wants to be Phoenix of a few years ago. The Sixers are working their way to becoming the new Detroit. Detroit added Sheed and it put them over the top. The Sixers added Brand, so I expect the same result.

Three point shooting is overrated. But we got a few guys that can help set-up that last shot of the quarter by stretching the D.

But the biggest reason of all is that Iguadala no longer needs to be THE GUY. That's not what he's suited for. He can focus on winning a game by shutting down a guy instead of making a jumper.

Fact? :speechless: That's kind of impossible if no one knows it yet...

Wouldn't call Dalembert or Young a lockdown defender but believe what you wish, they are much better defensively than most teams in the east but I don't know about 4 lockdown guys.

Toronto doesn't want to be Phoenix, your argument lost all credibility when you said that. Philly is MUCH more of a fast break team than Toronto. In fact, Toronto almost never runs the ball they have one of the most conservative PGs that you will see in Jose Calderon, he always goes for the safe play.

3pt shooting is not overrated, if you're good at it you can score 3 points when the other team scores two. Only two of the Raps starters are shooters anyway, and only one is primarily a shooter. Moon, Bosh, and O'Neal are certainly not 3pt shooters and all have the potential to be good defenders (Moon is more weakside, Bosh is a good team defender).

att1114
09-05-2008, 04:31 PM
Funny, because I'd say that with all the time spent watching Sixers games, you didn't watch very many Pacer games with O'Neal playing. In '06-'07 he played 69 games averaging 19+ ppg, 9+ rpg, and 2.6bpg. O'Neal had repeatedly said that he did not want to be on a rebuilding team, and that if the Pacers were to rebuild, he would like to be traded to a contender, as a show of respect for what he's done for the franchise. That's what they did. Yes he was injured for basically 3 of the 8 years he was with the Pacers, but that amounted to two injuries, one shoulder and one knee. The knee injury reoccurred over the course of the four years, because he wanted to be on the court and came back without fully healing. Doesn't sound like a slacker to me.

I have watched my fair share of Sixers games, and I will say that I also don't think that the team is constructed to complement Brand. Philly has not played inside-out basketball since Barkley was there. For Brand to be effective you dump the ball into him in the post. That minimizes both Miller's passing and Igoudala's slashing ability. When Brand gets doubled and passes out of the post, who's going to take the jumper? Miller shoots 20% for his career 3pt%. I like Louis Williams, but he seems close to his maximum potential. Kareem Rush is a career backup and one-trick pony. He can shoot the three. And he's streaky. I should know, he was a Pacer last year.

What I see happening is Brand being doubled in the post by either Dalembert's man, or Miller's man. Each other player stays on his man. If Brand passes to Sam, the paint is clogged with 3 players, and they force him to take a jumper. Not his strength. If he passes out to Miller, the doubler cuts off the lane makes Miller pass or take the jumper (20% on 3's, remember). If he passes to anyone else, they already have a man on them, and the paint still has 3 players in it. If AI or Young get past their man, there are still two defenders in the paint, plus Brand in the way. Ask Nash if having Shaq in the paint all the time is helping with his ability to penetrate the defense.

The Sixers were best last year on the break, being quicker and more athletic than the competition. With Brand and Dalembert on the floor at the same time, you've got two players rebounding to start the break, but two players not running the break, either. And Andre Miller isn't the full-court outlet pass kinda PG. Maybe they'll work it out. But I think Brand is going to have to work to accomodate the team more than the other way around.

first of all, whos says andre miller will be standing behind the 3 point line?? he actually has a very consistant jump shot

and dalembert always runs the break...he is one of the fastest and most athletic centers in the league...

i do not think the 76ers are overrated at all...they have a very solid bench: green(starter last year, averages about 12 ppg), evans (great rebounder and hustler, started last year on the 76ers team, who made the playoffs), rush( DEFINITELY more than just a bench-warmer...i dont think hes that much worse than korver), marshall (he may be washed up, but you can't really determine it. he averaged 8 ppg just 2 seasons ago, he barely played last year), speights, and then lou williams (who averaged 12 ppg last year and will only keep getting better)

then you add igoudala, brand, dalembert, miller, and young and you definitely have yourself a top 4 team in the east

fresh prince
09-05-2008, 05:06 PM
Since coming to Indiana JO had 3 injured seasons, out of 8. His most recent relatively uninjured season he played 69 games in '06-'07, and averaged 19.4ppg, 9.6rpg, 2.6bpg, 2.4apg and shot .436 from the field. His field goal percentage was the second lowest of the career and was due to the system, not the player. He has NEVER shot .420 in his entire career, so I have no idea where you're getting your numbers.
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jermaine_oneal/career_stats.html

Brand's most recent uninjured season he averaged 20.5ppg, 9.3rpg, 2.2bpg, 2.9apg with a .533 FG percentage. Brand is more efficient than JO, true, but with O'Neal in a different system I expect his FG % to rise dramatically, and so statistically there isn't much difference between Brand and JO.

The major difference between the two of them is that JO is 6'11" 260lb, and Brand is 6'8" 258lb. Brand has a power game but he's short, JO has a finesse game and he's tall. If you're comparing microscopic differences in stats, then Brand is a slightly better scorer and passer, O'Neal is a slightly better rebounder and shot blocker. Just thought I should clear that up.


How CAN YOU BLAME A SYSTEM FOR A PLAYER MISSING SHOTS?

Sorry i WAS OFF BY 1,6 % POINTS. Jo has NEVER SHOT ABOVE 50% from the floor his highest being 48%. He has shot 45% or lower 6 times in his career! And 43% from the floor in 4 diffrent seasonsThats not good enough for a big unless he is taking and making a good amount of 3's.

Jo may be a better shot blocker but Elton is a better all around defender. The scoring differences are not microscopic. Elton scores more and at a much more efficient clip. The rebounding an defense are the only things that are even close

Chronz
09-05-2008, 05:10 PM
Brand crushes Jermaine offensively, but its not close defensively. Jermaine was my DPOY pick 2 years ago, Brand can play great defense but isnt very consistent and his man defense is suspect at times. Jermaine can guard the Duncans and Sheeds, Brand usually struggles against prime time PF's. You still have a better chance at winning the game if you have Brand but it wont be by locking down.

Sixerlover
09-05-2008, 05:16 PM
Defend that...if you're speaking of injury concerns, you're right but statistically the Raptors only problems were defense, shot blocking and rebounding last year and O'Neal brings an abundance of all three of those. I think JO is the best fit on his new team out of the three but Brand is more of an impact player there is no denying that.
And the Sixers main problem was interior scoring, and Brand brings an abundance of that, along with the defensive play that we had from Evans / Smith during last year at the 4. And I think that since we now have a solidified 20 / 10 dump it in the post type player, the offense will be much, much improved to go with an already very good defensive team.



Fact? :speechless: That's kind of impossible if no one knows it yet...

Wouldn't call Dalembert or Young a lockdown defender but believe what you wish, they are much better defensively than most teams in the east but I don't know about 4 lockdown guys.
Both of them are above average defenders, Dalembert being close to lockdown. Thad has only been in the league one year, so I won't call him lockdown, but seeing him defend people from Paul Pierce, to Lamar Odom, even to Rasheed and Bosh when he played the 4 and defend them well makes me believe that he is on the path to becoming a lockdown defender.


Toronto doesn't want to be Phoenix, your argument lost all credibility when you said that. Philly is MUCH more of a fast break team than Toronto. In fact, Toronto almost never runs the ball they have one of the most conservative PGs that you will see in Jose Calderon, he always goes for the safe play.
Really? I always thought that the whole Colangelo theme was to get up and down, and that Jose' and TJ were the perfect PG's for that system. And bringing in Kopono and Parker (the 3pt shooters) only enhanced that thought. Guess I was wrong

fresh prince
09-05-2008, 05:19 PM
Brand crushes Jermaine offensively, but its not close defensively. Jermaine was my DPOY pick 2 years ago, Brand can play great defense but isnt very consistent and his man defense is suspect at times. Jermaine can guard the Duncans and Sheeds, Brand usually struggles against prime time PF's. You still have a better chance at winning the game if you have Brand but it wont be by locking down.

I'd take Elton defensively...probably because I've seen him more than Jermaine..living in LA.. But either way its close. I've seen Elton lock up Duncan,KG and Amare. I wouldn't put Sheed in that class anymore.

JO hasn't had to face the bigs out west enough to give an accurate assessment:

1. Because he plays in the east
2.Because he's always injured

Sixerlover
09-05-2008, 05:19 PM
Brand crushes Jermaine offensively, but its not close defensively. Jermaine was my DPOY pick 2 years ago, Brand can play great defense but isnt very consistent and his man defense is suspect at times. Jermaine can guard the Duncans and Sheeds, Brand usually struggles against prime time PF's. You still have a better chance at winning the game if you have Brand but it wont be by locking down.

You can easily throw Dalembert on the Duncan's and Sheed's and Al Jefferson's because most of the teams with one real post presence do not have two post scorers, so Brand can defend the other one.

Chronz
09-05-2008, 05:20 PM
Neither team ran much last year, the Sixers were among the league leaders in fast break points but they didnt play at a break neck pace, they were very selective in their running game.

fresh prince
09-05-2008, 05:22 PM
You can easily throw Dalembert on the Duncan's and Sheed's and Al Jefferson's because most of the teams with one real post presence do not have two post scorers, so Brand can defend the other one.

Bingo! that is why I think the Sixers will beast and are not overrated at all.

They matchup too well with the teams they will most likely need to go through:

Boston and Detroit. Either Dalembert or Brand will be playing off the ball at all times. Roaming and wreaking havoc

On another note why do you guys keep tossing Sheed in with the Elite big men.. Rasheed like Jo is a high volume low FG % big. He's shot 43% or lower the last 3 years... and more frustrating than JO he relies on even more jumpers even farther away from the hoop. Sheed doesnt belong in the omg how do we stop him discussion anymore

rapswin98
09-05-2008, 05:24 PM
sixers and raps rivalry is back:)

Sixerlover
09-05-2008, 05:25 PM
And I love it ! Reminds me of '01 round 2, game 7 :)

Chronz
09-05-2008, 05:29 PM
I'd take Elton defensively...probably because I've seen him more than Jermaine..living in LA.. But either way its close. I've seen Elton lock up Duncan,KG and Amare. I wouldn't put Sheed in that class anymore.

JO hasn't had to face the bigs out west enough to give an accurate assessment:

1. Because he plays in the east
2.Because he's always injured
I live in LA too

Its not close, its about as close as Jermaine and Brand are offensively. And its not just about their 1 on 1 abilities as it is about their helpside ability, I just mentioned the 1 on 1 because its the one aspect Jermaine is clearly better at. Jermaine is annually among the most effective offensive foul drawers and shot blockers (its very hard to be elite at BOTH) his teams are consistently MUCH better defensively with him than without him, Brand has never had that kind of impact. He tries hard but being undersized has its weaknesses especially when you dont box out as much as you should. Ive always maintained that if Brand worked as hard as he did on the offensive glass on the defensive side then he would earn much more recognition/praise for his defense among the coaches and scouts.

And Im talking about when both are healthy.

Chronz
09-05-2008, 05:30 PM
You can easily throw Dalembert on the Duncan's and Sheed's and Al Jefferson's because most of the teams with one real post presence do not have two post scorers, so Brand can defend the other one.

Yea I fully expect that to happen, when Brand was playing for us we always put Kaman on the opposing teams best bigman. Jermaine would always take on the challenge.

rapswin98
09-05-2008, 05:31 PM
And I love it ! Reminds me of '01 round 2, game 7but this time it will end differently:D

Chronz
09-05-2008, 05:31 PM
Bingo! that is why I think the Sixers will beast and are not overrated at all.

They matchup too well with the teams they will most likely l need to go through:

Boston and Detroit. Either Dalembert or Brand will be playing off the ball at all times. Roaming and wreaking havoc

On another note why do you guys keep tossing Sheed in with the Elite big men.. Rasheed like Jo is a high volume low FG % big. He's shot 43% or lower the last 3 years... and more frustrating than JO he reliess on even more jumpers even farther away from the hoop. Sheed doesnt belong in the omg how do we stop him discussion anymore

I was speaking about Sheed when he was worth a damn, like for their careers in general.

fresh prince
09-05-2008, 05:34 PM
I was speaking about Sheed when he was worth a damn, like for their careers in general.

hAHAHA OK:cheers:

Dol-Fan
09-05-2008, 05:34 PM
And the Sixers main problem was interior scoring, and Brand brings an abundance of that, along with the defensive play that we had from Evans / Smith during last year at the 4. And I think that since we now have a solidified 20 / 10 dump it in the post type player, the offense will be much, much improved to go with an already very good defensive team.

Then I think we can agree that both players bring what their respective team lacks, there is no reason to say Brand does it better than O'Neal. I just don't think the Sixers have a player who can stretch the D yet and that will be key in shooting them to the top of the conference.


Both of them are above average defenders, Dalembert being close to lockdown. Thad has only been in the league one year, so I won't call him lockdown, but seeing him defend people from Paul Pierce, to Lamar Odom, even to Rasheed and Bosh when he played the 4 and defend them well makes me believe that he is on the path to becoming a lockdown defender.

I always looked at Sammy as being more of a weakside help defender, but maybe I'm wrong. He was garbage on Canada's national team and that's when I watched him most. I might be getting the wrong idea of him but I'm basing this off of what I've seen.


Really? I always thought that the whole Colangelo theme was to get up and down, and that Jose' and TJ were the perfect PG's for that system. And bringing in Kopono and Parker (the 3pt shooters) only enhanced that thought. Guess I was wrong

No they pretty much abandoned that thought after the first 10 games of Colangelo's first full season as Raps GM. Jose is FAR from the perfect PG for that system, he is a very conservative PG and always seems scared to push the ball too fast. He pulls back on the break very often and waits for the half court offense to set up. Kapono and Parker get their 3pt shots off of penetration from Calderon, screen and rolls, and kick outs from Bosh.

Sixerlover
09-05-2008, 05:53 PM
Yeah Dalembert is a pretty good man defender as well as a weak side shot blocker. It is just on people like Rasheed and Okur where he struggles. Pick and pops kill him.

IversonIsKrazy
09-05-2008, 07:53 PM
magic, pistons and celtics r 4srue still a force to b rekoned w/ and will be the top 3 of east. so lets compare them to raptors.

Starting Line-up

PG: Jose = Miller
SG: Moon < Iggy
SF: Parker = Young
PF: CB4 > Brand
C: JO > Dalembert

Bench:
PG: Ukic < Lou
SG: Adams < Willie
SF: Kapono > Mo
PF: Bargs > Smith
C: Hump/Jawaii = Reggie

Toronto - 4 advantages
Philly - 3 advantages
Ties - 3

Overall - Raps better than sixers.

Yes sixers are highly overrated.

IndyRealist
09-05-2008, 08:08 PM
How CAN YOU BLAME A SYSTEM FOR A PLAYER MISSING SHOTS?

Sorry i WAS OFF BY 1,6 % POINTS. Jo has NEVER SHOT ABOVE 50% from the floor his highest being 48%. He has shot 45% or lower 6 times in his career! And 43% from the floor in 4 diffrent seasonsThats not good enough for a big unless he is taking and making a good amount of 3's.

Jo may be a better shot blocker but Elton is a better all around defender. The scoring differences are not microscopic. Elton scores more and at a much more efficient clip. The rebounding an defense are the only things that are even close

Do you watch basketball? Haven't you seen what Avery Johnson did to Dallas, or Rick Carlisle did to the Pacers? Do you really believe that this game is all about individual talent, and that it is not a team game? That's the kind of thinking that cost Team USA the gold for 6 years.

Let me explain Carlisle's system for you. JO was asked to bulk up to play center, which directly led to the reoccurence of his knee injury. He was asked to take the toughest defensive post assignment for 38 minutes a game, getting banged up by 7fters. He then was asked to catch the ball in the high post and back down his man and shoot over double and triple teams. The team lacked 3pt shooting, and was crippled by the antics of Ron Artest and the poor attitude of Jamaal Tinsley. Instead of changing the system, allowing JO to catch the ball on the move, playing the pass-first motion offense that the team was built to play, they played a slow down, dump-it-into-the-post-and-fight-through-triple-teams offense. Instead of getting the true center that he wanted, instead of making changes to make the team work, they dumped it into JO. The entire '06-'07 season he played with three pounds of bandages on his shoulder, rather than sit out and heal.

JO always tried to live up to the "franchise player" moniker. He played injured. He did whatever was asked of him, and played within the system. He never complained. He never asked to be traded. He -certainly- never abandoned his team that stuck with him through injury in order to chase more money in Philly.

I realize this is a Philly thread, but the inevitable comparisons have come up, and it's only fair to tell the whole truth of the situation before passing judgement. Especially considering that people don't think that the team's system matters. I'm a Pacers fan, and I'm glad JO got traded. But he deserves for people to make educated opinions about his ability, instead of just looking at a stat line.

Oh, and like I said previously, I have Philly tied for 4th in the East.

Kc17.
09-05-2008, 08:34 PM
Are the Sixers overrated?Thats questionable.
Do they look like a good team on paper?Yes.

The real answer is..
none of us will know if they were overrated until the season starts and we see the team play together.

How ever..they do like a top 5 team in the East on paper.

cmellofan15
09-05-2008, 09:04 PM
magic, pistons and celtics r 4srue still a force to b rekoned w/ and will be the top 3 of east. so lets compare them to raptors.

Starting Line-up

PG: Jose = Miller
SG: Moon < Iggy
SF: Parker = Young
PF: CB4 > Brand
C: JO > Dalembert

Bench:
PG: Ukic < Lou
SG: Adams < Willie
SF: Kapono > Mo
PF: Bargs > Smith
C: Hump/Jawaii = Reggie

Toronto - 4 advantages
Philly - 3 advantages
Ties - 3

Overall - Raps better than sixers.

Yes sixers are highly overrated.

Wow really...CALDERON AND MILLER ARE NOT THE SAME!!!!!!!

I don't care much about either of these teams but c'mon Calderon isn't as good as Miller! Why do people just adore him? He's good but he's not even top 10 in PG and you think him and Miller are the same

Westbrook36
09-05-2008, 09:14 PM
Yeah the Sixers are so Overrated, I mean we dont have a Top 10 PG Top 10 PF a Top 10 SG and a 20 year old Stud with a 10/10 Center or anything, Add that all up and we are Overrated..Also we can add in the solid Bench of Reggie Evans Louis Williams Rush Ratliff Willie Green Etc, Why are we so Overrated.

Westbrook36
09-05-2008, 09:15 PM
magic, pistons and celtics r 4srue still a force to b rekoned w/ and will be the top 3 of east. so lets compare them to raptors.

Starting Line-up

PG: Jose = Miller
SG: Moon < Iggy
SF: Parker = Young
PF: CB4 > Brand
C: JO > Dalembert

Bench:
PG: Ukic < Lou
SG: Adams < Willie
SF: Kapono > Mo
PF: Bargs > Smith
C: Hump/Jawaii = Reggie

Toronto - 4 advantages
Philly - 3 advantages
Ties - 3

Overall - Raps better than sixers.

Yes sixers are highly overrated.

Thad is better then Moon and Andre Miller is better then Jose Calderon other then that looks pretty clean Jawii and Hump = Reggie Evans? Erm No..

cmellofan15
09-05-2008, 09:21 PM
Thad is better then Moon and Andre Miller is better then Jose Calderon other then that looks pretty clean Jawii and Hump = Reggie Evans? Erm No..

Exactly all Moon will rise to glory eventually and so will Young but right no Thad is better and like I said before Miller is better than Calderon...

MiamiHeat
09-05-2008, 09:24 PM
We all have to wait until the season starts
and see how they do and if they live up to the rating and hype

/THREAD

LakerzDQ
09-05-2008, 10:03 PM
I don't think they're overrated, they're a good team but not yet championship contenders. don't forget their young players, Iggy, Lou Williams, and Thad Young can all improve, so they certainly can be a good team.

Ph1lly Diehard
09-05-2008, 10:05 PM
magic, pistons and celtics r 4srue still a force to b rekoned w/ and will be the top 3 of east. so lets compare them to raptors.

Starting Line-up

PG: Jose = Miller
SG: Moon < Iggy
SF: Parker = Young
PF: CB4 > Brand
C: JO > Dalembert

Bench:
PG: Ukic < Lou
SG: Adams < Willie
SF: Kapono > Mo
PF: Bargs > Smith
C: Hump/Jawaii = Reggie

Toronto - 4 advantages
Philly - 3 advantages
Ties - 3

Overall - Raps better than sixers.

Yes sixers are highly overrated.

#1- Smith is injured, out, Theo is in his place
#2- Your forgetting Rush, our 7th man so to speak.
#3- Your forgetting Theo Ratliff.

Kc17.
09-05-2008, 10:17 PM
Wow really...CALDERON AND MILLER ARE NOT THE SAME!!!!!!!

I don't care much about either of these teams but c'mon Calderon isn't as good as Miller! Why do people just adore him? He's good but he's not even top 10 in PG and you think him and Miller are the same

Why do you think Miller is better?

Calderon has the better shot,better passing..Miller may have better scoring..but even thats questionable because Calderon's shown that when he wants he can score at will.

Miller has the experience edge..But if I had to choose one for my team it would be Calderon.

And I believe Calderon is about the 6th or 7th best PG in the league.

ShaunRiching9
09-05-2008, 10:24 PM
they will finish 5ht or 6th

heyman321
09-05-2008, 10:29 PM
Why do you think Miller is better?

Calderon has the better shot,better passing..Miller may have better scoring..but even thats questionable because Calderon's shown that when he wants he can score at will.

Miller has the experience edge..But if I had to choose one for my team it would be Calderon.

And I believe Calderon is about the 6th or 7th best PG in the league.

I was wondering this too. Calderon is clearly the better point guard? How can you argue that Miller is beter than Calderon when he put up those stats sharing time with TJ Ford? Miller had a pretty good year last season but he's past his days with the clips and nuggets. Calderon is an up and coming guard who will probably be on the all star team in the soon future.

Westbrook36
09-05-2008, 10:30 PM
I was wondering this too. Calderon is clearly the better point guard? How can you argue that Miller is beter than Calderon when he put up those stats sharing time with TJ Ford? Miller had a pretty good year last season but he's past his days with the clips and nuggets. Calderon is an up and coming guard who will probably be on the all star team in the soon future.

Incase you didnt know Calderon averaged 30 MPG..Sharing time dosnt matter when you get right around Miller's.

cmellofan15
09-05-2008, 10:31 PM
Why do you think Miller is better?

Calderon has the better shot,better passing..Miller may have better scoring..but even thats questionable because Calderon's shown that when he wants he can score at will.

Miller has the experience edge..But if I had to choose one for my team it would be Calderon.

And I believe Calderon is about the 6th or 7th best PG in the league.

First of all Miller's D is way better. Calderon has a better shot but his passing is not neccissarily better, and Miller has better scoring and can create his own shot.

Top PG's (not in order)

Nash
CP3
D-Will
Zero
Kidd
Parker
Miller
Chauncey
BDiddy
JET
maybe even Felton

cmellofan15
09-05-2008, 10:35 PM
I was wondering this too. Calderon is clearly the better point guard? How can you argue that Miller is beter than Calderon when he put up those stats sharing time with TJ Ford? Miller had a pretty good year last season but he's past his days with the clips and nuggets. Calderon is an up and coming guard who will probably be on the all star team in the soon future.

Oh My Goodness! He was sharing like 30 to 18 thats not sharing thats hogging, maybe we should say TJ Ford is better than miller b/c he put up 13 and 6 in a small amount of time he was "sharing" with Calderon...

Kc17.
09-05-2008, 10:46 PM
First of all Miller's D is way better. Calderon has a better shot but his passing is not neccissarily better, and Miller has better scoring and can create his own shot.

Top PG's (not in order)

Nash
CP3
D-Will
Zero
Kidd
Parker
Miller
Chauncey
BDiddy
JET
maybe even Felton

Lmao..

Your kidding.

CP3
Nash
D-Will
Kidd
Davis
Parker
Billups
Calderon
Miller
Arenas

You highly underrate Calderon.

bogdanrom
09-05-2008, 11:01 PM
Lmao..

Your kidding.

CP3
Nash
D-Will
Kidd
Davis
Parker
Billups
Calderon
Miller
Arenas

You highly underrate Calderon.


:speechless: Arenas is better than Calderon, Miller, Billups, and maybe Parker. He is a top 5 PG.

heyman321
09-05-2008, 11:08 PM
First of all Miller's D is way better. Calderon has a better shot but his passing is not neccissarily better, and Miller has better scoring and can create his own shot.

Top PG's (not in order)

Nash
CP3
D-Will
Zero
Kidd
Parker
Miller
Chauncey
BDiddy
JET
maybe even Felton

So you are telling me if you had a team in the NBA TODAY, you would rather have Miller running your team for 08-09 instead of Calderon?

Kc17.
09-05-2008, 11:11 PM
:speechless: Arenas is better than Calderon, Miller, Billups, and maybe Parker. He is a top 5 PG.

That could be true..however he plays more like an SG then a PG ..and didnt look good after coming back from the injury last year.

Dol-Fan
09-06-2008, 01:37 AM
Calderon (full season, including when he had to take the bench for Ford...)

30.3 MPG, 11.2 PPG, 2.9 RPG, 8.3 APG, 0.519 FG%, 0.908 FT%, 0.429 3PT%

Miller

36.8 MPG, 17 PPG, 4 RPG, 6.9 APG, 0.492 FG%, 0.772 FT%, 0.088 3FG%

Not sure how anyone could consider Miller better, Calderon is clearly the better distributer and shoots a better percentage in all categories. Miller may be more experienced and better defensively but to say that he is the clearcut leader is asinine. Also, Calderon is younger and still has potential to improve, as he has done significantly in each of his 3 years in the league.

And Calderon is a bigger point as well, 6'3 210 as opposed to Miller at 6'2 200.

And cmellofan, he was not sharing 30-18, do some research before making silly statements. TJ was injured for a good portion of the year and played 23.5 MPG when he was in the lineup.

AK-50
09-06-2008, 01:41 AM
If the Sixers got Jermaine O'Neal and the Raptors got Elton Brand, which team do you think would get more press?

Sixers still because they're in the states and the Raps aren't

Sixerlover
09-06-2008, 03:34 AM
So you are telling me if you had a team in the NBA TODAY, you would rather have Miller running your team for 08-09 instead of Calderon?

I would.

Sixerlover
09-06-2008, 03:36 AM
Calderon (full season, including when he had to take the bench for Ford...)

30.3 MPG, 11.2 PPG, 2.9 RPG, 8.3 APG, 0.519 FG%, 0.908 FT%, 0.429 3PT%

Miller

36.8 MPG, 17 PPG, 4 RPG, 6.9 APG, 0.492 FG%, 0.772 FT%, 0.088 3FG%

Not sure how anyone could consider Miller better, Calderon is clearly the better distributer and shoots a better percentage in all categories. Miller may be more experienced and better defensively but to say that he is the clearcut leader is asinine. Also, Calderon is younger and still has potential to improve, as he has done significantly in each of his 3 years in the league.

And Calderon is a bigger point as well, 6'3 210 as opposed to Miller at 6'2 200.

And cmellofan, he was not sharing 30-18, do some research before making silly statements. TJ was injured for a good portion of the year and played 23.5 MPG when he was in the lineup.

A premier go to man in Bosh and a lights out shooter in Kopono are two things Miller did not have last year when it comes to assists. Those two things greatly increase your assist totals. Compare his assists last year to Miller's this year and that'll be more of a fair assesment.

DeeNyC5
09-06-2008, 04:00 AM
the Toronto Raptors who already had a better team then the sixers and added a player of equal if not greater status in Jermaine Oneal .

O'neal only plays about 30 games a year.

lovingTO
09-06-2008, 05:00 AM
A premier go to man in Bosh and a lights out shooter in Kopono are two things Miller did not have last year when it comes to assists. Those two things greatly increase your assist totals. Compare his assists last year to Miller's this year and that'll be more of a fair assesment.

Kapono was shi+ last year. He didn't help pad anyones stats in the raptors line-up. What also hasn't been mentioned is the fact that Calderon NEVER turns over the ball. He was the reason the raptors turned the ball over less than any other team in the league(or they may have been 2nd to detroit...I'm too lazy to look up the numbers).

att1114
09-06-2008, 09:46 AM
miller is so ridiculously underrated, its not even funny....last year, andre miller was forced into the position of being the go-to-guy on the sixers, THAT is why his assist numbers were down(in 2002, he averaged 11 assists per game)...
miller has so much more of an impact on a team than calderon...if the sixers didnt have miller last year, they would have been the worst teams in the league. however, even if the raptors didnt have calderon, they still would have been around a .500 team

i just say wait until next season to determine who is better...you have to see how much calderon has improved

heyman321
09-06-2008, 09:52 AM
miller is so ridiculously underrated, its not even funny....last year, andre miller was forced into the position of being the go-to-guy on the sixers, THAT is why his assist numbers were down(in 2002, he averaged 11 assists per game)...
miller has so much more of an impact on a team than calderon...if the sixers didnt have miller last year, they would have been the worst teams in the league. however, even if the raptors didnt have calderon, they still would have been around a .500 team

i just say wait until next season to determine who is better...you have to see how much calderon has improved

What the hell are you talking about? If the Raptors didn't have Calderon, they'd be one of the worst teams because Ford was injured. We'd have no backup PG. Tell me, did ANY of you see the clutch play against Boston that Calderon made? Calderon probably gave us 10-12 more wins than TJ would have.

att1114
09-06-2008, 10:03 AM
What the hell are you talking about? If the Raptors didn't have Calderon, they'd be one of the worst teams because Ford was injured. We'd have no backup PG. Tell me, did ANY of you see the clutch play against Boston that Calderon made? Calderon probably gave us 10-12 more wins than TJ would have.


im just saying miller had much more of an impact on the sixers than calderon did on the raptors...miller didnt even have an all-star player like bosh to help

Dol-Fan
09-06-2008, 06:07 PM
im just saying miller had much more of an impact on the sixers than calderon did on the raptors...miller didnt even have an all-star player like bosh to help

You're just saying things with nothing to back it up, how many Raptors games did you actually watch? How far in-depth have you gone into the stats? Was Calderon not the one discussed to replace Kidd in the all-star game? Or was it Miller? I can't remember but I'm almost positive it started with a C...

BTW, Raptors would be a bottom feeder without Calderon with a stellar PG rotation of Juan Dixon/Darrick Martin :clap:

cmellofan15
09-06-2008, 06:10 PM
So are you saying that Calderon is better than Miller??? If you put Calderon on the Sixers they would have been almost as bad as the T'Wolves last season IMO

Dol-Fan
09-06-2008, 06:52 PM
So are you saying that Calderon is better than Miller??? If you put Calderon on the Sixers they would have been almost as bad as the T'Wolves last season IMO

hahaha ok, sorry I had to laugh, but this is my last post in this thread until people start backing up OPINION with FACT. Take your time, dig into the world wide web which is just overflowing with information waiting for you to grab!

AutomaticWeezy
09-06-2008, 07:13 PM
Andre Miller is more important to the Sixers than Jose Calderon is to the raptors.
He was the best player on the team last year, while Bosh was the best player on the raptors In my opinion.

But i am a Philly fan.

Hawkeye15
09-06-2008, 08:32 PM
Calderon (full season, including when he had to take the bench for Ford...)

30.3 MPG, 11.2 PPG, 2.9 RPG, 8.3 APG, 0.519 FG%, 0.908 FT%, 0.429 3PT%

Miller

36.8 MPG, 17 PPG, 4 RPG, 6.9 APG, 0.492 FG%, 0.772 FT%, 0.088 3FG%

Not sure how anyone could consider Miller better, Calderon is clearly the better distributer and shoots a better percentage in all categories. Miller may be more experienced and better defensively but to say that he is the clearcut leader is asinine. Also, Calderon is younger and still has potential to improve, as he has done significantly in each of his 3 years in the league.

And Calderon is a bigger point as well, 6'3 210 as opposed to Miller at 6'2 200.

And cmellofan, he was not sharing 30-18, do some research before making silly statements. TJ was injured for a good portion of the year and played 23.5 MPG when he was in the lineup.


Yeah, but that 3-4 pts more he gets on assists for his team doesn't equal the ppg difference, and Miller plays bigger and is a better rebounder. I don't even like Philly that much, so this is non biased, but Miller has been an underrated point his whole career. He is supposed to be on the decline, yet he goes for 17-7. He just knows how to get it done. Calderon is efficient, I will give him that, but he doesn't have a huge ceiling, and you really can't expect more than 12-8 out of him this season.

Knowledge
09-06-2008, 08:47 PM
Calderon (full season, including when he had to take the bench for Ford...)

30.3 MPG, 11.2 PPG, 2.9 RPG, 8.3 APG, 0.519 FG%, 0.908 FT%, 0.429 3PT%

Miller

36.8 MPG, 17 PPG, 4 RPG, 6.9 APG, 0.492 FG%, 0.772 FT%, 0.088 3FG%

Not sure how anyone could consider Miller better, Calderon is clearly the better distributer and shoots a better percentage in all categories. Miller may be more experienced and better defensively but to say that he is the clearcut leader is asinine. Also, Calderon is younger and still has potential to improve, as he has done significantly in each of his 3 years in the league.

And Calderon is a bigger point as well, 6'3 210 as opposed to Miller at 6'2 200.

And cmellofan, he was not sharing 30-18, do some research before making silly statements. TJ was injured for a good portion of the year and played 23.5 MPG when he was in the lineup.

To add to the post above me

If you bring up stats you have to include the fact that Miller has to make/take more shots for his team than Calderon does for his team.

Fgs made /attempts :
Miller: 569-1156
Calderon: 367-707

This is obviously going to make Calderon look better from the field. Also Miller didnt have a low post guy or a three point shooter for easy assists, so its hard to compare them because of how different their teams are. Miller is a more complete player in IMO.

*Superman*
09-06-2008, 09:01 PM
No doubt they are overrated, they haven't proved anything yet. Sure they will be a good team, but everything good gets overrated a bit.

A-TrainDopeMan
09-06-2008, 09:34 PM
Basically if you don't consider this current Sixers squad as greatest basket line-up in the history of everything you have them dangerously underrated.

Sixerlover
09-06-2008, 09:37 PM
So are you saying that Calderon is better than Miller??? If you put Calderon on the Sixers they would have been almost as bad as the T'Wolves last season IMO

Now I don't agree with that, but I do think that we wouldn't of been as good as we were last year (2nd half of last year)

GSW fan
09-06-2008, 09:50 PM
sixers are garbage

Enjoy the Show
09-06-2008, 09:51 PM
They haven't played a game yet. They're not overrated, underrated or rated. People are putting them in their preseason top 3 and others aren't. You can't be overrated without playing a game. Once they play a game and people say OMG They're the best, that could make them overrated.

The Sixers have a very solid team and they are very young. And if they aren't top 3 this year, you can expect them to be next year. They're fun to watch and make every game competitive.

Dol-Fan
09-06-2008, 11:13 PM
Yeah, but that 3-4 pts more he gets on assists for his team doesn't equal the ppg difference, and Miller plays bigger and is a better rebounder. I don't even like Philly that much, so this is non biased, but Miller has been an underrated point his whole career. He is supposed to be on the decline, yet he goes for 17-7. He just knows how to get it done. Calderon is efficient, I will give him that, but he doesn't have a huge ceiling, and you really can't expect more than 12-8 out of him this season.

So you think the extra 6-8 MPG that Calderon will get, paired with the fact that he won't have to worry about being taken out at random times, will only account for an extra one PPG? Hmmm... I'm gonna say 13-14, 9-9.5, depending on O'Neals play and how much he scores.

Chronz
09-06-2008, 11:17 PM
So you think the extra 6-8 MPG that Calderon will get, paired with the fact that he won't have to worry about being taken out at random times, will only account for an extra one PPG? Hmmm... I'm gonna say 13-14, 9-9.5, depending on O'Neals play and how much he scores.

DING DING DING

Per minute stats always reveal more about a player than raw per game averages do. Your suppose to combine both but most people ignore the other.

att1114
09-07-2008, 11:44 AM
You're just saying things with nothing to back it up, how many Raptors games did you actually watch? How far in-depth have you gone into the stats? Was Calderon not the one discussed to replace Kidd in the all-star game? Or was it Miller? I can't remember but I'm almost positive it started with a C...

BTW, Raptors would be a bottom feeder without Calderon with a stellar PG rotation of Juan Dixon/Darrick Martin :clap:

the sixers had just as good of a record as the raptors last year........even though calderon had a go-to-guy to rely on...miller didnt

in the future, calderon might be better than miller, but as of this point in their careers, there is no denying that andre miller is the better player

MTone8788
09-07-2008, 12:18 PM
I have not read every post in this thread to hear everyone's opinions, but I noticed some people thinking Andre Miller may be overrated, or not as good as Calderon. I think Calderon is very good, which is obvious from his play and numbers. However, Andre Miller is in no way overrated. And I really don't see how people are saying his shot is not as good, when Andre Miller kills it from the midrange nearly every game. And I think a lot of people here are too much into stats and numbers and "oh he played more minutes" and all that bs. Watch the games and look at the impact the players have on the teams. I would take either at point guard to be honest, as a Sixers fan, I am very content with Miller starting. And another thing, some people are bringing up Miller's age. His game is not based on speed and quickness, so I don't believe he is going to decline as rapidly. And up to this day, his game hasn't declined at all!

Beno7500
09-07-2008, 12:33 PM
I think they are a little overrated. Brand will help, but Iguodala will have to step up big time for them to make alot of noise.

Ph1lly Diehard
09-07-2008, 12:40 PM
I think they are a little overrated. Brand will help, but Iguodala will have to step up big time for them to make alot of noise.

Iggy will have to step up, I agree. But Brand is our goto guy, Iggy is the 2nd option .

MTone8788
09-07-2008, 12:49 PM
How much more do you want Iguodala to do? Is 20, 5.5, and 5 along with his defense not good enough for a second option?

Hawkeye15
09-07-2008, 05:27 PM
So you think the extra 6-8 MPG that Calderon will get, paired with the fact that he won't have to worry about being taken out at random times, will only account for an extra one PPG? Hmmm... I'm gonna say 13-14, 9-9.5, depending on O'Neals play and how much he scores.

he may get another basket or so, and yeah, if O'Neal is healthy, I see his scoring not going up at all, but 2-3 more assists. He is being given the team now, we will see if he can handle the pressure. Although, not looking over your shoulder, wondering if TJ is coming in for you helps. I would still take Miller for the upcoming season, but age has to catch him eventually. Still, I always stick up for Miller, he is one of the more underrated points in the last 6 years.