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PHX-SOXFAN
09-03-2008, 05:22 PM
The McCain campaign says the election is not about issues:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080903/pl_politico/20552

Thoughts?

To me this sounds like a party that doesn't want to talk about failed economic policy and their plans to continue with the same plans. It is hilarious to me that the economy is being completely avoided as a topic from the Republican Party from top to bottom.

b1e9a8r5s
09-03-2008, 05:48 PM
The McCain campaign says the election is not about issues:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080903/pl_politico/20552

Thoughts?

To me this sounds like a party that doesn't want to talk about failed economic policy and their plans to continue with the same plans. It is hilarious to me that the economy is being completely avoided as a topic from the Republican Party from top to bottom.

What's hillarious to me is that someone who responds to virutally every argument for McCain and against Obama as being a talking point of Rush/Hannity has just created a thread devoted to a talking point from the Obama campaign.

abe_froman
09-03-2008, 05:58 PM
What's hillarious to me is that someone who responds to virutally every argument for McCain and against Obama as being a talking point of Rush/Hannity has just created a thread devoted to a talking point from the Obama campaign.

well one is 2nd part that trys to convince people they're 3rd(rush/sean) and one is from the 1st party themselves.or are rush/hannity the republican ticket?

PHX-SOXFAN
09-03-2008, 09:02 PM
What's hillarious to me is that someone who responds to virutally every argument for McCain and against Obama as being a talking point of Rush/Hannity has just created a thread devoted to a talking point from the Obama campaign.

I was referencing quotes directly from the McCain campaign spokesmen and the Obama campaign in that article. Both were represented. One says the election is about issues, the other that it's about personality.

I then found it humorous considering the current economic situation and the McCain economic policy. Do you defend the economic policy of McCain? If so, I'm very interested as to why considering the results of very similar policies of the past 25+ years.

ari1013
09-03-2008, 10:00 PM
Of course they're going to want to tip-toe around Bush's policies. I don't really see what the big deal is here :confused:

In_Ned_I_Trust
09-03-2008, 11:31 PM
The McCain campaign says the election is not about issues:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080903/pl_politico/20552

Thoughts?

To me this sounds like a party that doesn't want to talk about failed economic policy and their plans to continue with the same plans. It is hilarious to me that the economy is being completely avoided as a topic from the Republican Party from top to bottom.

Congress makes policy (laws) so what has the DEMOCRATIC congress done in their tenure?

I know Democrats don't like the Constitution but if you need a refresher from 8th grade history

Article I of the U.S. Constitution states that Congress will consist of two separate houses. A lawmaking body with two houses is called a bicameral legislature. The two houses that make up the U.S. Congress are the House of Representatives and the Senate.

Congress is the primary lawmaking body in the U.S. government. To solve problems, Members of Congress introduce legislative proposals called bills or resolutions. After considering these proposals, Members vote to adopt or to reject them. Members of Congress also review the work of executive agencies to determine if they are following government policy, and may introduce new legislation based on what they discover.

Please just tell it like it is if I wanted spin I'd watch MSNBC.

PHX-SOXFAN
09-04-2008, 12:11 AM
Congress makes policy (laws) so what has the DEMOCRATIC congress done in their tenure?

I know Democrats don't like the Constitution but if you need a refresher from 8th grade history

Article I of the U.S. Constitution states that Congress will consist of two separate houses. A lawmaking body with two houses is called a bicameral legislature. The two houses that make up the U.S. Congress are the House of Representatives and the Senate.

Congress is the primary lawmaking body in the U.S. government. To solve problems, Members of Congress introduce legislative proposals called bills or resolutions. After considering these proposals, Members vote to adopt or to reject them. Members of Congress also review the work of executive agencies to determine if they are following government policy, and may introduce new legislation based on what they discover.

Please just tell it like it is if I wanted spin I'd watch MSNBC.

are you referring to that 51-49 majority in the senate which includes two senators who have been out with an anuerism and brain cancer? How exactly is that supposed to get anything passed a guy who vetoes health care for children?:speechless:

ink
09-04-2008, 01:41 AM
It's all about the personality baby ... :laugh:


"You judge a book by its cover (sic), and we've been waiting for that chance with her," said Nagel, dressed in a hockey jersey like the rest of the Michigan delegation. "We want to see how tall she is, if she wears heels, how she wears her hair. That's stuff us Republican women need to know."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/04/women_react_to_palin_speech.html

Hey, she said it ...

In_Ned_I_Trust
09-04-2008, 03:40 AM
are you referring to that 51-49 majority in the senate which includes two senators who have been out with an anuerism and brain cancer? How exactly is that supposed to get anything passed a guy who vetoes health care for children?:speechless:

You still have the speaker of the house

Admit it your congress has messed up.

SmthBluCitrus
09-04-2008, 09:51 AM
You still have the speaker of the house

Admit it your congress has messed up.

"Our" congress has been in there for under 18 months. There isn't enough "D" votes to overcome a veto in the House, and there isn't enough to block a filibuster in the Senate. They're dealing with a obstinate partisan President that is in his final few months -- and the took over in his final two years.

Maybe look at the Republican brand. Among nationwide polling, it's more than likely that Democrats are going to expand their majority in both the House and the Senate. Why do you think that is?

PHX-SOXFAN
09-04-2008, 01:57 PM
"Our" congress has been in there for under 18 months. There isn't enough "D" votes to overcome a veto in the House, and there isn't enough to block a filibuster in the Senate. They're dealing with a obstinate partisan President that is in his final few months -- and the took over in his final two years.

Maybe look at the Republican brand. Among nationwide polling, it's more than likely that Democrats are going to expand their majority in both the House and the Senate. Why do you think that is?

exactly, there's nothing to admit with this congress other than they can't get things like childrens healthcare passed without a veto.

On the other hand, the republicans continue to ignore more economic bad news:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080904/ap_on_bi_st_ma_re/wall_street

These type of reports are pretty consistent and this economy is not good. Those are the facts, in addition to not hearing one bit of an economic plan during this week's convention. Convenient, don't you think?

SLY WILLIAMS
09-04-2008, 02:08 PM
Both are personality and issues are important to me. Charecter and a love for America is very high on my list as well.

I dont see Mccain as Bush. If that was the case Kerry wouldnt have considered Mccain as VP nor would Biden have said he would be happy to run with Mccain. In fact I believe the democrats at one point tried to get Mccain to switch parties. Mccain is a guy (like Joe Liberman) that does what he thinks is right. He will cross party lines to do it. Republicans including Bush hated his Mccain/Feingold bill. Mccain/Kennedy also angered many Republicans.

PHX-SOXFAN
09-04-2008, 02:11 PM
Both are personality and issues are important to me. Charecter and a love for America is very high on my list as well.

I dont see Mccain as Bush. If that was the case Kerry wouldnt have considered Mccain as VP nor would Biden have said he would be happy to run with Mccain. In fact I believe the democrats at one point tried to get Mccain to switch parties. Mccain is a guy (like Joe Liberman) that does what he thinks is right. He will cross party lines to do it. Republicans including Bush hated his Mccain/Feingold bill. Mccain/Kennedy also angered many Republicans.

it speaks volumes about both leiberman and mccain character that they still think the iraq war was right. Not to mention the vp candidate says it is a task from god

SLY WILLIAMS
09-04-2008, 02:20 PM
it speaks volumes about both leiberman and mccain character that they still think the iraq war was right. Not to mention the vp candidate says it is a task from god

I believe both Mccain and Liberman are both very honorable people with a lot of character. Just because somebody disagrees on an issue doesnt mean they are less than honorable.

They believe it was right to remove one of the most horrible murderous dictators this planet has ever seen. They both also followed credible intel from multiple countries that people on both sides pushed (including Clinton, Gore and Kerry) before Bush was even in office. I personally wish we did not go to Iraq but I'm selfish and I cant say that removing Saddam Hussain ever hurts the world. I dont want to be the worlds policeman. Selfishly I would like to be an isolationist country and ignore all the worlds atrocities but when you have a guy that commits major atrocities and ignores the UN treaties he has signed what do you do? We ignored Hitler for years and millions of people were burned in ovens and gassed during that time. So is there 1 easy answer?

PHX-SOXFAN
09-04-2008, 02:30 PM
I believe both Mccain and Liberman are both very honorable people with a lot of character. Just because somebody disagrees on an issue doesnt mean they are less than honorable.

They believe it was right to remove one of the most horrible murderous dictators this planet has ever seen. They both also followed credible intel from multiple countries that people on both sides pushed (including Clinton, Gore and Kerry) before Bush was even in office. I personally wish we did not go to Iraq but I'm selfish and I cant say that removing Saddam Hussain ever hurts the world. I dont want to be the worlds policeman. Selfishly I would like to be an isolationist country and ignore all the worlds atrocities but when you have a guy that commits major atrocities and ignores the UN treaties he has signed what do you do? We ignored Hitler for years and millions of people were burned in ovens and gassed during that time. So is there 1 easy answer?

to stubbornly stand by the false intel, failed policies, etc continues to speak volumes about judgement and character

ink
09-04-2008, 02:37 PM
Both are personality and issues are important to me. Charecter and a love for America is very high on my list as well.

I dont see Mccain as Bush. If that was the case Kerry wouldnt have considered Mccain as VP nor would Biden have said he would be happy to run with Mccain. In fact I believe the democrats at one point tried to get Mccain to switch parties. Mccain is a guy (like Joe Liberman) that does what he thinks is right. He will cross party lines to do it. Republicans including Bush hated his Mccain/Feingold bill. Mccain/Kennedy also angered many Republicans.

I think you're talking about the earlier McCain in those examples.

And if character and a love for America is important, why isn't it obvious that EACH of these candidates has an equal love of country? I don't believe for a second that McCain, Palin, Obama, and Biden are anything but patriots. It should be off the table as a discussion point - expressly because that's where the biggest danger of propaganda lies.

Everyone loves their country. Some have different ways of expressing that. The Rs are conveniently forgetting that Ronald Reagan ran on a "restoring the country" to greatness platform in 1980 and NO ONE questioned his patriotism! He wanted the best for his country, just like the Dems and Obama do. I think it's really unethical what the Rs are doing right now, in criticizing Obama for wanting to restore the country to its past level. Again, if people have a problem with that, they should have a major problem with Ronald Reagan saying it too.

SLY WILLIAMS
09-04-2008, 02:49 PM
I think you're talking about the earlier McCain in those examples.

And if character and a love for America is important, why isn't it obvious that EACH of these candidates has an equal love of country? I don't believe for a second that McCain, Palin, Obama, and Biden are anything but patriots. It should be off the table as a discussion point - expressly because that's where the biggest danger of propaganda lies.

Everyone loves their country. Some have different ways of expressing that. The Rs are conveniently forgetting that Ronald Reagan ran on a "restoring the country" to greatness platform in 1980 and NO ONE questioned his patriotism! He wanted the best for his country, just like the Dems and Obama do. I think it's really unethical what the Rs are doing right now, in criticizing Obama for wanting to restore the country to its past level. Again, if people have a problem with that, they should have a major problem with Ronald Reagan saying it too.

I never said anyone didnt love their country. I just said thats important to me. I want somebody that thinks America first.

I'm not on the my side your side stuff. I'm on America's side. I like people that will go against their own party and work with everyone.

ink
09-04-2008, 02:58 PM
I never said anyone didnt love their country. I just said thats important to me. I want somebody that thinks America first.

I'm not on the my side your side stuff. I'm on America's side. I like people that will go against their own party and work with everyone.

Good. There's been too much slagging of Obama and his wife because of this issue. It happened countless times at the RNC last night and drew huge applause. The digs at Obama on this issue cross the line IMO. They should know better than to accuse another American of being unpatriotic, especially one who has already served his country to the extent that Obama has, whether as a community organizer, a constitutional law professor, or as a United States senator.

hoosiercubsfan
09-04-2008, 03:34 PM
The McCain campaign says the election is not about issues:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080903/pl_politico/20552

Thoughts?

To me this sounds like a party that doesn't want to talk about failed economic policy and their plans to continue with the same plans. It is hilarious to me that the economy is being completely avoided as a topic from the Republican Party from top to bottom.

Here is a bit of news about what the public really thinks of the economy.


Barack Obama during his acceptance speech played a riff on Phil Gramm's impolitic remarks about a "mental recession" and a "nation of whiners." Like a succession of Democrats at the podium, he painted the economy in the darkest, most hopeless of colors -- never mind that the economy is actually growing and unemployment is still lower than it was during much of the Clinton presidency.


She finds that 76% of Americans say they are actually optimistic about the direction of their own lives and their personal economic situations -- even though only 18% are optimistic about the country. That's the big disconnect. "These numbers haven't changed much over time," Ms. Bowman tells me.


What's the No. 1 economic worry for Americans? Gas prices. Some three-quarters of Americans in Gallup's July 2008 survey blame high gas prices for financial hardship, compared to 40% eight years ago. Mr. Obama last night offered a vague but dramatic promise to "end our dependence" on Middle East oil within a decade. (The AP candidly led its report by pointing out this "goal likely would be difficult -- perhaps impossible -- to achieve and flies in the face of how global oil markets work.") Voters don't seem to buy that either. Repeated polling has shown that, with their mantra of "drill, drill, drill," Republicans seem to be offering a solution voters find more credible.

I asked Ms. Bowman what accounts for the gap between people's attitudes about their own lives and the economy in general. Her answer is no big surprise: "The relentless negativity of the media."

The Democratic message in Denver was about all that is wrong in America, though any balanced perspective would notice how resilient the U.S. economy has been amid the housing bust and surging oil prices. Former Clinton economist Brad DeLong noted in his blog recently: "If you had asked me a year ago whether this degree of financial chaos was consistent with a domestic U.S. economy not clearly in recession, I would have said no."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122015517555886239.html?mod=rss_opinion_main

You keep banging the drum about how bad the economy is and the economic decissions. But it sure doesn't seem to agree with the rest of Americans. Am I saying the economy is strong? Absolutely not but it sure isn't as bad as you make it out to be.

ari1013
09-04-2008, 07:32 PM
Here is a bit of news about what the public really thinks of the economy.






http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122015517555886239.html?mod=rss_opinion_main

You keep banging the drum about how bad the economy is and the economic decissions. But it sure doesn't seem to agree with the rest of Americans. Am I saying the economy is strong? Absolutely not but it sure isn't as bad as you make it out to be.
The most recent survey on national priorities for Gallup, Diageo, and Fox News all have "The Economy" as the number one issue with over 40%. The next closest issues are either energy or Iraq with no more than 15%.

http://pollingreport.com/prioriti.htm

The Economic Optimism Index btw is at 37.4. During our last recession back in 2002 it was at 60. Basically the way that works is 50 means people view the economy next year about the same as this year. More than 50 means they think it will be better. Less than 50 means they think it will be worse.

Consumer Confidence has fallen to 50.4. What that means is that the average American feels like they are living about half as well as they were during the base year (1985). Comparing that to the Bush-era peak in early 2007 we see it was at 111.2. That's a sharp decline in less than 2 years. Back in November 2004 when Kerry tried to paint Bush as bad for the economy, CC was just a tad under 100. So people weren't buying it then. As an FYI, when median household incomes hit their highest mark in history, CC was right around 150.

PHX-SOXFAN
09-05-2008, 03:30 PM
The most recent survey on national priorities for Gallup, Diageo, and Fox News all have "The Economy" as the number one issue with over 40%. The next closest issues are either energy or Iraq with no more than 15%.

http://pollingreport.com/prioriti.htm

The Economic Optimism Index btw is at 37.4. During our last recession back in 2002 it was at 60. Basically the way that works is 50 means people view the economy next year about the same as this year. More than 50 means they think it will be better. Less than 50 means they think it will be worse.

Consumer Confidence has fallen to 50.4. What that means is that the average American feels like they are living about half as well as they were during the base year (1985). Comparing that to the Bush-era peak in early 2007 we see it was at 111.2. That's a sharp decline in less than 2 years. Back in November 2004 when Kerry tried to paint Bush as bad for the economy, CC was just a tad under 100. So people weren't buying it then. As an FYI, when median household incomes hit their highest mark in history, CC was right around 150.

thanks, and I'll add to that:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/06/business/economy/06econ.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

The economy is weakening everyday. As to it being lower than under Clinton as Hoosier said:

http://www.miseryindex.us/URbyyear.asp

The facts are rough. Clinton lowered it to 6.1 by his second year and took it much further to the better under his administration. It's now going well over 6% this year. It's going in the opposite direction under this administration and that's with a $600 check to everyone.

Keep the reports coming and keep the republican plan blank to change this economic situation.:speechless:

PHX-SOXFAN
09-05-2008, 03:31 PM
Here is a bit of news about what the public really thinks of the economy.






http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122015517555886239.html?mod=rss_opinion_main

You keep banging the drum about how bad the economy is and the economic decissions. But it sure doesn't seem to agree with the rest of Americans. Am I saying the economy is strong? Absolutely not but it sure isn't as bad as you make it out to be.

6.1% unemployment! I didn't think it would get there until another month or so. It's going to be 6.5-7% by election time. This is an unavoidable topic and a glaring hole in the republican campaign. bad news for anyone running under the conservative republican banner in november