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Lakersfan2483
09-03-2008, 05:51 AM
Based on Shaq's career numbers and accomplishments is Shaq a top 10 player of all time? Top 5? Why or why not?

stawka
09-03-2008, 06:09 AM
Top 10 easy, close top 5. Magic/Jordan are definitely ahead of him and are 1 and 2. In my opinion, the other 10 can go either way.

barreleffact
09-03-2008, 06:12 AM
he most definately is, but he would have to be behind kareem IMO. id take shaq as a rookie and in his prime though because shaq was so dominant. his dominance alone has to make him a top 10 all time. they changed the rules to limit him. the man anchored 3 championship teams plus averaged 3 blocks 13 boards and 23 points as a rookie. the top 10 is for people who in their prime could do no wrong and beasted everyone. shaq, jordan, bird...im uneasy on wilt and bill russel because they had no competition, but id put him high in my HoF top and wouldnt look back

Tom81
09-03-2008, 06:17 AM
I think top 10

innovator
09-03-2008, 07:15 AM
for me RIGHT NOW
1. mj
2. mj2
3. kareem
4. wilt
5. shaq
6. bird
7. robertson
8. kobe

astrosmaniac
09-03-2008, 07:38 AM
shaq pver bird? wow, and kobe at 8 :pity: your homerism

GCOOKIE7
09-03-2008, 07:45 AM
most dominant of all time. No other Center in any era would be able to hold him!
Easy top 10

GCOOKIE7
09-03-2008, 07:46 AM
and Shaq does have more championships than Bird

innovator
09-03-2008, 07:50 AM
^and had only 1 hof by his side when he won his championships(kobe in LA,wade in heat) but bird had more than 1

$ NyC $
09-03-2008, 07:52 AM
I'd give him top 10 4 sure

bostncelts34
09-03-2008, 07:55 AM
without a doubt. Most DOMINANT center of all time. No one past/present could stop him in his prime.

in no order...

MJ
bird
Magic
Russell
Shaq
Kareem
robertson

then you would have to consider Duncan in the top 10. and POSSIBLY KG roughly around the top 10.

phils07
09-03-2008, 08:04 AM
shaq is in the top 10 easily.

ok i understand everyone placing MJ first, but how is it not Bill Russell? if winning is the desired result, theres no other option. it doesnt matter that Jordan had a more all around game. if a person affects a game to the point where theyve won the most in history, it doesnt matter what position they play. it doesnt matter that his game was not as "aesthetic" (i think he made it amazing. similar to what oden will do). bill russell destroyed everyone on defense and wouldve won no matter who was on his team. hence even after cousy left and the team changed, they still won. bill russell is the best player of all time. then MJ.

JordansBulls
09-03-2008, 08:12 AM
Based on Shaq's career numbers and accomplishments is Shaq a top 10 player of all time? Top 5? Why or why not?

He was voted #9.

Top 10 Players (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6110754#post6110754)

innovator
09-03-2008, 08:18 AM
^nah that wasnt accurate hahaha j/k

blue collar B
09-03-2008, 08:49 AM
Is he a top 10??? All this talk about different guys that are ahead of him is garbage. I am sure Shaq will never get the respect he is due. I agree with the dominance comment that has him compete for #1. Shaq's game was more than numbers. He opened up the floor for everyone else and the game plan was always contain Shaq priority #1 for opposing teams. Shaq dominanted period. Far more than anyone in my opinion. Don't judge his career on the last couple of seasons. In his prime no one dominated like he did. That's my opinion of course. I think stat wise you can make whatever case you want, in reality he was bigger than his numbers.

thunder2335
09-03-2008, 09:03 AM
and Shaq does have more championships than Bird

Robert Horry has more championships than both of them?

97'bulls
09-03-2008, 09:13 AM
top 10 maybe even back to 15. Definitly not top 5 though:
JORDAN
BIRD
MAGIC
OSCER ROBERTSON
BILL RUSSELL

bagwell368
09-03-2008, 09:13 AM
Sorry, not top 10. With his abysmal foul shooting at the end of close games it is all too easy to beat his team.

He didn't run the floor at all - so its a slowdown with him on the floor. He couldn't copy well w/ the Hakeem type centers in that way.

He got a good amount of rebounds, and a fair amount of blocks - but not an extraordinary amount of either. It was offense he existed for.

On that basis - inside of 6 feet - with the ball, the only other guy that could match him was Wilt. That is a lot, but it isn't enough. As the recent poll showed, there were what 4 or 5 centers named in the top 10 by this board... can't field a team of half centers.

For offensive dominance - Shaq and Wilt
For defensive dominance - Bill

For all around play - Hakeem and Kareem (still a dissapointment on the boards).

I'll stick with Hakeem as my starter and go for a big body to mash with the big guys (Walton probably if a short career peak is allowed)

Seventh King
09-03-2008, 09:53 AM
shaq is in the top 10 easily.

ok i understand everyone placing MJ first, but how is it not Bill Russell? if winning is the desired result, theres no other option. it doesnt matter that Jordan had a more all around game. if a person affects a game to the point where theyve won the most in history, it doesnt matter what position they play. it doesnt matter that his game was not as "aethetic" (i think he made it amazing. similar to what oden will do). bill russell destroyed everyone on defense and wouldve won no matter who was on his team. hence even after cousy left and the team changed, they still won. bill russell is the best player of all time. then MJ.

I agree. Russell would have been very hard for Shaq (even in his prime) to dominate. A younger Wilt would have been very effective against Shaq as well. If a person goes back and looks at the year that the Bulls played the Magic in the ECF, they will see that Rodman was able to bother Shaq's game to a large extent . . .and Rodman was giving up lots of height and weight. Overall, I'd have Shaq in the top ten. . .no way top five.

prash
09-03-2008, 10:35 AM
He was voted #9.

Top 10 Players (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6110754#post6110754)

I agree with this list. The only one I might debate is Tim Duncan at 10. Maybe if he wins one more title I might agree.

DrHoops21
09-03-2008, 12:16 PM
not my personal opinion, but it could be argued that shaq is the most valuable ever.

ratatat
09-03-2008, 12:29 PM
without a doubt. Most DOMINANT center of all time. No one past/present could stop him in his prime.

in no order...

MJ
bird
Magic
Russell
Shaq
Kareem
robertson

then you would have to consider Duncan in the top 10. and POSSIBLY KG roughly around the top 10.

i dont understand why you wold consider duncan and KG in the top ten, but not kobe.

Rome
09-03-2008, 01:06 PM
Definitely bigger than his numbers. He was way to dominate in his prime and I'd put him close to top 5. Its not easy where to place the older players just because of how much the game has changed and level of competition.

You have to put him top ten though. Too dominate.

sep11ie
09-03-2008, 01:07 PM
he most definately is, but he would have to be behind kareem IMO. id take shaq as a rookie and in his prime though because shaq was so dominant. his dominance alone has to make him a top 10 all time. they changed the rules to limit him. the man anchored 3 championship teams plus averaged 3 blocks 13 boards and 23 points as a rookie. the top 10 is for people who in their prime could do no wrong and beasted everyone. shaq, jordan, bird...im uneasy on wilt and bill russel because they had no competition, but id put him high in my HoF top and wouldnt look back

You mean back when Hakeem made him look foolish?

CowboysKB24
09-03-2008, 01:11 PM
Top ten easy of all time. Definitely top 5 center of all time.

mrblisterdundee
09-03-2008, 01:12 PM
You can't really group all players into one top list. A basketball team has different positions for a reason. Each player performs a different function. Basketball games aren't won by a player, but by a group. Even LeBron James would lose if he went out on to the court alone. I wouldn't try to parallel Shaq's skill set with that of Jordan or Magic. Shaq is definitely one of the top centers of all time.

Hellcrooner
09-03-2008, 01:16 PM
no one could hold hold him?

Hakeem Did 4-0 remeber?

and David Robinson did TWICE.


He is just Brute force he is by no means a bettr PLAYER than Kareem Wilt Robinson, Hakeem or even EWING, just stronger.

And about dominance, he never dominated the leauge in the way MIKAN did or WILT did.

Ahead of him are Magic, Jordan, Bird, O RObertson, Kareem, WIlt, Tim DUncan, Mikan, Dr J.....

mamba24
09-03-2008, 01:17 PM
without a doubt. Most DOMINANT center of all time. No one past/present could stop him in his prime.

in no order...

MJ
bird
Magic
Russell
Shaq
Kareem
robertson

then you would have to consider Duncan in the top 10. and POSSIBLY KG roughly around the top 10.

i would not put garnett in the top 20 of all time

knicks1214
09-03-2008, 01:20 PM
And I might not put Duncan in the top 20 either...he's a good player, top 50 probably top 40 or 30 but he has been on a good team each year he has played...he's had good stars but there are some older players who I would put ahead of him.

mamba24
09-03-2008, 01:21 PM
no one could hold hold him?

Hakeem Did 4-0 remeber?

and David Robinson did TWICE.


He is just Brute force he is by no means a bettr PLAYER than Kareem Wilt Robinson, Hakeem or even EWING, just stronger.

And about dominance, he never dominated the leauge in the way MIKAN did or WILT did.

Ahead of him are Magic, Jordan, Bird, O RObertson, Kareem, WIlt, Tim DUncan, Mikan, Dr J.....

k idiot remember that when wilt played the next tallest guy after russell was like 6'9".. mikan had the same benefit. shaq had great footwork and dominated the league for 10 years. ewing had no titles no mvps... not even an allstar game mvp... he is not just strength. his only flaw in his game in his prime was his free throw shooting

mamba24
09-03-2008, 01:27 PM
top 10 maybe even back to 15. Definitly not top 5 though:
JORDAN
BIRD
MAGIC
OSCER ROBERTSON
BILL RUSSELL

magic over bird. russell and wil should come before bird and big o

Phili4life
09-03-2008, 01:47 PM
top ten for sure!!(6 or 7 Bird, Magic, Mike, Russel, Big O, Wilt,)4 rings..hes done it all. hes a monster and da league had to bring the zone back after the rings started to pile up..oh..and Tim Duncan is for sure top 20!!

Lone Maverick
09-03-2008, 02:49 PM
Top 15 for sure maybe top 10

Its hard to compare players from different positions. Shaq is the most dominate but he didn't have the best skills. He did his thing and did it very well.

A side note me personally I consider Tim Duncan the greatest PF of all time so I'd say Timmy is top 10-12 of all time.

_Sn1P3r_
09-03-2008, 04:20 PM
I say Shaq is a possible top ten but not top 5. My top five: Jordan, Magic, Russell, Russell and Wilt.

Chronz
09-03-2008, 04:32 PM
You mean back when Hakeem made him look foolish?

When did that ever happen, Shaq never looked foolish against anyone, he always held his own despite the fact that he was a youngster barely learning the NBA game.

And yes easily top 10, arguably top 5, but most likely top 7.

sep11ie
09-03-2008, 06:21 PM
When Houston whooped the Magic in the finals. The Dream made Shaq look stupid the whole finals! He completely domitated him.

Hawkeye15
09-03-2008, 06:24 PM
top 10. If he shot 75% from the line, top 3. He is the most physically dominant player of all time. Stronger than Wilt. The thing that just kills him is free throw shooting when talking best all time.

Hawkeye15
09-03-2008, 06:25 PM
When Houston whooped the Magic in the finals. The Dream made Shaq look stupid the whole finals! He completely domitated him.

are you referring to the Dream who was in his prime, vs a 23 year old Shaq? Sure, then. If the 2000 Lakers were to play the Rockets from that year, it may have been a little bit better matchup.

Lakersfan2483
09-03-2008, 11:07 PM
Shaq is in the top 5 of all-time. His presence alone down low was a nightmare for opposing teams, he was in top form during the playoffs. He put up monster numbers during his title runs. His career has been great, he has some of the top stats of all-time. He's in the top ten in scoring, rebs., he's also won 4 titles, 3 finals MVPs, been an all-star more then ten times and every team he's on, wins. He's a top 5 player for sure, a rare breed of a player. He's up there with the all of the other greats, meaning: MJ, Magic, Wilt, Kareem.

dre1990
09-03-2008, 11:13 PM
He was voted #9.

Top 10 Players (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6110754#post6110754)

that was a good idea but not list top 15 imo

SwaggaIke
09-03-2008, 11:16 PM
Shaq has been in my top 10 for a long time. There has never been a more dominant player in the league. His finals statistics are just mind blowing. Hell, his statistics for the career are mind blowing. Not to mention his 4 championship rings. A lot of people don't agree w/ me and that's fine, but Shaq is the 2nd greatest center of all times IMO.

Lakersfan2483
09-03-2008, 11:31 PM
Shaq and Kareem are the 2 best centers of all-time. Wilt was the best statistically, but in terms of making others better, I will take either Kareem or the Diesel.

Chronz
09-04-2008, 03:41 PM
When Houston whooped the Magic in the finals. The Dream made Shaq look stupid the whole finals! He completely domitated him.
Prove it


Shaq more than held his own, he didnt look like Ewing or Robinson against Dream. Besides Shaq made Hakeem look plenty stupid himself, especially when he knocked him out of the first round of the playoffs.

RoyalG333
09-04-2008, 03:47 PM
top 10

1.) Michael Jordan
2.) Bill Russel
3.) Wilt Chamberlin
4.) Kareem Abdul Jabbar
5.) Magic Johnson
6.) Larry Bird
7.) Oscar Robertson
8.) Shaquille O'neal
9.) Hakeem Olijuwon
10.) Kobe Bryant

Havoc Wreaker
09-04-2008, 03:55 PM
and Shaq does have more championships than Bird

So, Horry >>>>>>>>> Bird?

That said:
Mj
Wilt
Russel
Magic
Kareem
Oscar
Hakeem
Bird
Malone
Shaq

RoyalG333
09-04-2008, 03:56 PM
^^ haha I bet if Larry Bird was a journeyman and played for ONLY teams who had a shot at winning rings, he would have had a few more.

Havoc Wreaker
09-04-2008, 04:02 PM
^^ haha I bet if Larry Bird was a journeyman and played for ONLY teams who had a shot at winning rings, he would have had a few more.

I was pointing out that championships bare no meaning on how good a player is

I.E. Malone Stockton

SwaggaIke
09-04-2008, 06:29 PM
^^ haha I bet if Larry Bird was a journeyman and played for ONLY teams who had a shot at winning rings, he would have had a few more.

But didn't Shaq give those teams the shot at winning the rings by signing up? Who were the Lakers of the mid 90s before Shaquille? Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel? Shaq immediately made them a threat. They draft Kobe. They pay their dues as a team as every young team has to do before winning a title. Before you know it, all hell breaks lose. The Lakers run off 3 straight championships and a 4th appearance. Kobe did his thing each and every year, but the cog that made the Lakers go was Shaq. As evidenced by his astonishing career statistics during his stint w/ the Lakers. His finals numbers alone stand in a land of few. He gets traded to the Miami Heat. A team on the rise w/ a young star fresh off a 41 win season and a pretty nice season to season improvement. Automatically takes them from a 41 win team to a 59 win team while being a LEGITIMATE threat to Steve Nash for the MVP in the season of 04-05. You can't tell me Shaq hasn't paid his dues and taken teams to the next level. He's been a winner since day 1. The only blemish on his win total is the first half of the 07-08 season. He's a proven winner and champion. The Magic were nowhere w/o him, the Lakers were average at best and we all know what happened w/ my guys last year. Give that man his respect, he grinded for it.

Hawkeye15
09-04-2008, 07:23 PM
for me RIGHT NOW
1. mj
2. mj2
3. kareem
4. wilt
5. shaq
6. bird
7. robertson
8. kobe

who is mj2?

Hawkeye15
09-04-2008, 07:27 PM
^and had only 1 hof by his side when he won his championships(kobe in LA,wade in heat) but bird had more than 1

and Bird played FAR better competition. The teams he beat, LAL, had Magic, Worthy, Jabbar, Scott, etc. Ummmmmmmmmmmm, I think that means more than knocking out any of the teams the Lakers did with Shaq. Oh, and Bird knocked out Philly with Dr J, Moses Malone, Big Bobby, Mo Cheeks. And a Houston team with Hakeem, Sampson, Malone again, do I need to continue you idiot?

Hawkeye15
09-04-2008, 07:31 PM
1. MJ
2. Wilt
3. Bird
4. Magic
5. Kareem
6. Oscar
7. Russell
8. Shaq
9. Dr. J
10. Cousy

Ballah0liC1
09-04-2008, 07:37 PM
def top 5 i think he is better than russel and wilt, shaq dominated a league where 7 footers were common, during russel and wilts time they were basically the only 7 footers

bogdanrom
09-04-2008, 09:52 PM
He is a top 10. By far the most dominant center EVER. He's kind of weird, especially lately but that's a different story. Even when he is old and fat he's still a top center in the league.

bogdanrom
09-04-2008, 09:53 PM
who is mj2?

Magic Johnson

Hawkeye15
09-04-2008, 10:01 PM
Magic Johnson

my b, dang