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View Full Version : Jerry Angelo Free Agent Guru or Bonehead ??



Bulldog76
09-02-2008, 02:28 PM
What grade would you give Angelo and his free agent acquisitions / departures...

Soop
09-02-2008, 02:39 PM
Faneca was my biggest disappointment.

DamnGoat
09-02-2008, 03:27 PM
Faneca was my biggest disappointment.
We'd have been in cap hell though, that's why I'm not too disappointed.

There's a chance we'd have lost either Harris or Hester by signing Faneca. We need a dominant OL, but not at the expense of the rest of your core players.

There were other lesser name FA OL available and we didn't even bother with them. Someone like Ryan Lilja for example. To me that's more disappointing than throwing a crapload of money at Faneca.

Bulldog76
09-02-2008, 03:31 PM
2003
Kordell Stewart...2years 4.75m 1.75guaranteed;
Desmond Clark...a six year deal
Stanley Pritchett...a one year deal and gone
Cory Sauter...one year deal

2004
Trade: Marty Booker out - Adawale Ogunleye in
Thomas Jones...nice player for 3 years, than traded away for nothing
Ruben Brown...Still had some left in the tank
Jon Tait...PAID BIG MONEY and has been the anchor of the 0-line since
Corey Jenkins...never made the team
Lewis Moore...never made the field
Chad Hutchinson...ewwww, he sucked
Jonathon Quinn...Eeeewww, he started and really sucked

2005-
QB-Jeff Blake...Never made the active roster
FB-Marc Edwards...Played one season in a reserve roll
WR-Moose Muhammad...BIG money; gone after 3 seasons
WR-Eddie Berlin..Barely made the team, than went on IR
T- Fred Miller...2 seasons of production; 1 of terrible play; gone after 3 seasons (Ryan Diem was offered less money than Miller got from the Bears, 3 years later Diem is in the prime of his career and one of the best in the game)
G- Roberto Garza...Nice player, still a starter

2006
Brian Greise...gone 2 years later
Tony Hollings...never made the team
Ricky Manning Jr.,...good nickel for 2 years...but gone
Dante Wesley...good special teams player, but wanted out after one year

2007
Ruben Brown...earned a one year extension
Lance Briggs...the saga began
Trade: Darwin Walker acquired for 5th round pick and $5m

2008
Brandon Lloyd...Brought in on a one year deal
Marty Booker...brought back for one more year
Lance Briggs...the saga ends

cambovenzi
09-02-2008, 03:38 PM
no real great acquisitions except like tait, and some other nice stop gap guys.
he does a good job of keeping around the good players already on the team.
also cant do too much b/c the owners are cheap.

Muttman73
09-02-2008, 03:38 PM
Mediocre I think says it best, he has done a nice job of keeping talent though...

Bulldog76
09-02-2008, 03:42 PM
seems like in 04/05 JA was aggressive on the market and the team went to the playoffs/super bowl in the following years...now the past two years he seems to have reverted to building thru the draft, where he has failed to hit any picks of note...

not to mention that after the super bowl season, we did not sign any free agents...which is confusing because the franchise should have been swimming in money after that and high on the attractiveness scale to high end free agents who were looking to play for a contender...guys like Eric Steinbach, Kevin Curtis, Donte Stalworth, Kris Dielman, DJ Hackett, Brandon Stokely, Max Starks, Marc Colombo, Tony Pashos, Yeremiah Bell, Michael Lewis...

Instead we trade for Adam Archulettembyme and Darwin Walker...just a poor use of resources...considering how much we threw at those two stiffs to be benched by midseason..

cambovenzi
09-02-2008, 03:47 PM
seems like in 04/05 JA was aggressive on the market and the team went to the playoffs/super bowl in the following years...now the past two years he seems to have reverted to building thru the draft, where he has failed to hit any picks of note...

not to mention that after the super bowl season, we did not sign any free agents...which is confusing because the franchise should have been swimming in money after that and high on the attractiveness scale to high end free agents who were looking to play for a contender...guys like Eric Steinbach, Kevin Curtis, Donte Stalworth, Kris Dielman, DJ Hackett, Brandon Stokely, Max Starks, Marc Colombo, Tony Pashos, Yeremiah Bell, Michael Lewis...

Instead we trade for Adam Archulettembyme and Darwin Walker...just a poor use of resources...considering how much we threw at those two stiffs to be benched by midseason..
when you get to the superbowl, everyone wants more money.
he had to keep the guys around.

Bulldog76
09-02-2008, 03:50 PM
Free Agents lost off the top of my head:
Rosevelt Colvin, Warrick Holdman, Ian Scott, Todd Johnson, Bernard Berrian, Justin Gage, Marc Colombo, Tony Parrish and Marcus Robinson...

Let's not forget trading away...
Marty Booker, Thomas Jones and releasing Big Cat

Bulldog76
09-02-2008, 03:52 PM
when you get to the superbowl, everyone wants more money.
he had to keep the guys around.

They only re-signed Briggs and Ruben Brown...not sure who "everyone" is that you are referring to, but these guys were going to be street free agents otherwise and Brown was signed to a one year deal...

The money was spent to acquire Adam Archuletta and Darwin Walker...neither of whom are still on the team...

Not exactly a great evaluation of talent...

cambovenzi
09-02-2008, 04:12 PM
They only re-signed Briggs and Ruben Brown...not sure who "everyone" is that you are referring to, but these guys were going to be street free agents otherwise and Brown was signed to a one year deal...

The money was spent to acquire Adam Archuletta and Darwin Walker...neither of whom are still on the team...

Not exactly a great evaluation of talent...

who is everyone you say?
hes kept everyone around.
resigned all kinds of guys from the superbowl team.

and the AA move probably had alot to do w/ lovie.

Bulldog76
09-02-2008, 04:14 PM
he re-signed a lot people THIS offseason...but going into last year he only resigned 2 (briggs one year franchise tag 7m+; brown 1 year 2.4m)...

Please tell me who else you are talking about...

cambovenzi
09-02-2008, 04:17 PM
he re-signed a lot people THIS offseason...but going into last year he only resigned 2 (briggs one year franchise tag 7m+; brown 1 year 2.4m)...

Please tell me who else you are talking about...

and if he signed big free agents, he wouldnt be able to resign the guys now...
its called money management.

Bulldog76
09-02-2008, 04:29 PM
Super Bowl Roster; Players who were not re-signed, traded away or released in bold letters...not exactly the same team now as we had back then.

Grossman, Orton, Greise
Jones, Benson, Peterson
McKie
Moose, Berrian, Justin Gage, Bradley, Davis
D. Clark, J. Gilmore, G. Reid
J. Tait, M. Levoir
R. Brown, T. Metcalf
O. Kreutz, A. Oakley
R. Garza,
F. Miller, J. St. Clair

A. Brown, M. Anderson
A. Ogunleye, I. Idonije
T. Harris, A. Boone
I. Scott, T. Johnson, Antonio Garay
H. Hillenmeyer, R. Wilson, D. McClover
B. Urlacher, B. Ayandbadejo
L. Briggs, J. Williams
C. Tillman, D. Wesley, D. Hester
N. Vasher, Ricky Manning Jr.
M. Brown, T. Johnson, C. Worrell
C. Harris, D. Manning, T. Everett

R. Gould
P. Mannelly
B. Maynard

Of all those players...Grossman got a one year extension, T. Harris got a long term deal, Urlacher got his extension extended, R. Brown got a one year deal and is now gone, Briggs got a long term deal, Hester got overpaid...and I can't really think of anyone else who has been re-signed to any significance.

Bulldog76
09-02-2008, 04:42 PM
and if he signed big free agents, he wouldnt be able to resign the guys now...
its called money management.


23 of the 53 man roster for that season have been sent elsewhere...

define big free agents, because paying a safety 4m as we did with Archuletta last year (and we are still paying him 2.5m this year) would be considered a big free agent in my mind...

and the 6year 30m contract we signed Darwin Walker to when we signed him after the trade seemed to be big money too...

But I guess we needed to acquire another strong safety when we had Chris Harris, Mike Brown and drafted Kevin Payne...

And we needed a $5m per year DT, especially considering Tommie Harris, Dusty Dvoracek and the available young free agents that were out there for less...

Not sure where you are on this one Cambo...are you saying
-we couldn't sign big name free agents
-that Archuletta and Walker weren't big acquisitions
-that they were brought in, they sucked and we are still paying for those players...in which case it was poor money management by our GM

Maybe, just maybe...Angelo flopped on the free agency market...chose not to extend Berrian when he was cheap...and passed on free agents like Marc Colombo, Jon Stinchcomb, Tony Pashos, Eric Steinbach, Vonnie Holiday, Robaire Smith, Ken Hamlin or Michael Lewis...most of which signed for less than Archuletta or Walker got...

But that would mean that Angelo made a mistake, something you are very hesitant to admit to...

Bulldog76
09-02-2008, 04:44 PM
and if he signed big free agents, he wouldnt be able to resign the guys now...
its called money management.

we are 9 million dollars under the cap STILL

we could have signed two offensive lineman at over 4m per year and still been under the cap...that has nothing to do with money management, it has to do with poor talent evaluation, cheap owners and poor draft choices...

how can you see this any other way...

Soop
09-02-2008, 04:58 PM
We'd have been in cap hell though, that's why I'm not too disappointed.

There's a chance we'd have lost either Harris or Hester by signing Faneca. We need a dominant OL, but not at the expense of the rest of your core players.

There were other lesser name FA OL available and we didn't even bother with them. Someone like Ryan Lilja for example. To me that's more disappointing than throwing a crapload of money at Faneca.

Not really. We have a little more than 9 million under the cap now. Faneca's contract w/ the Jets is around 4 year deal for 32 mil. It would've left us over a mil still to pocket.

cambovenzi
09-02-2008, 07:35 PM
you guys seem to think going right under the cap, with no wiggle room is an option.
the owners are cheap, they dont like big payouts.
and that leaves you with very little options later.
yeah, 9 mil now, and who knows what will need to happen next year and in future years.

cambovenzi
09-02-2008, 07:37 PM
23 of the 53 man roster for that season have been sent elsewhere...

define big free agents, because paying a safety 4m as we did with Archuletta last year (and we are still paying him 2.5m this year) would be considered a big free agent in my mind...

and the 6year 30m contract we signed Darwin Walker to when we signed him after the trade seemed to be big money too...

But I guess we needed to acquire another strong safety when we had Chris Harris, Mike Brown and drafted Kevin Payne...

And we needed a $5m per year DT, especially considering Tommie Harris, Dusty Dvoracek and the available young free agents that were out there for less...

Not sure where you are on this one Cambo...are you saying
-we couldn't sign big name free agents
-that Archuletta and Walker weren't big acquisitions
-that they were brought in, they sucked and we are still paying for those players...in which case it was poor money management by our GM

Maybe, just maybe...Angelo flopped on the free agency market...chose not to extend Berrian when he was cheap...and passed on free agents like Marc Colombo, Jon Stinchcomb, Tony Pashos, Eric Steinbach, Vonnie Holiday, Robaire Smith, Ken Hamlin or Michael Lewis...most of which signed for less than Archuletta or Walker got...

But that would mean that Angelo made a mistake, something you are very hesitant to admit to...

yeah, those signings werent good in hindsight.
but you wanted even more and bigger signings.
to which i pointed out we wouldnt have been able to resign all these guys now.

Bulldog76
09-03-2008, 10:06 AM
We woudl have been able to sign up to 9M in contracts... AND why wouldn't we have been able to sign the same people we signed extensions with in addition to bringing in one mid level free agent (2-3m/year)... Because I'm not going to point the finger at the ownership, because they have spent big money on players that Angelo picked out (moose instead of plaxico is looking like a nice move)...

Your comments about the owners not wanting to shell out big paydays, doesn't really add up considering the money they just gave tommie harris, brian urlacher, lance briggs, nate vasher, charles tillman, devin hester, olin kreutz's extension midway thru last season, and the contracts of jon tait, moose muhammad and fred miller were not considered small peanuts when they signed...

Do you even think before you type?

AND the signings were bad when they happened...if we needed a strong safety why did we draft one and trade for archuletta; if we needed a dt why didn't we draft one last year when we had the chance? It all points back to Angelo...that is money mgmt...draft a 2nd round DE when you need a DT...draft a 3rd round OLB when you need a SS...why can't you grasp that he has made thes mega mistakes?

cambovenzi
09-03-2008, 01:02 PM
We woudl have been able to sign up to 9M in contracts... AND why wouldn't we have been able to sign the same people we signed extensions with in addition to bringing in one mid level free agent (2-3m/year)... Because I'm not going to point the finger at the ownership, because they have spent big money on players that Angelo picked out (moose instead of plaxico is looking like a nice move)...

Your comments about the owners not wanting to shell out big paydays, doesn't really add up considering the money they just gave tommie harris, brian urlacher, lance briggs, nate vasher, charles tillman, devin hester, olin kreutz's extension midway thru last season, and the contracts of jon tait, moose muhammad and fred miller were not considered small peanuts when they signed...

Do you even think before you type?

AND the signings were bad when they happened...if we needed a strong safety why did we draft one and trade for archuletta; if we needed a dt why didn't we draft one last year when we had the chance? It all points back to Angelo...that is money mgmt...draft a 2nd round DE when you need a DT...draft a 3rd round OLB when you need a SS...why can't you grasp that he has made thes mega mistakes?
you think maxing the cap, like its madden 08 or something is a good idea.
you need room to make moves, both now, and in future years.

i do think obviously. its not debatable. yet, you are trying to complain or argue about it to try and make JA look bad.
btw ownership DOES have a reputation of being cheap.
why do you think we have contract issues w/ players and coaches all the time?
yes, they kept around some key players. in their situation you have to do that.
and once in awhile sign some decent FAs.
i never said they are cheao to the point of not trying to field a team.

once in awhile they do try to make a big free agent signing.
but its mostly a few so-so guys.

you think its an accident or something that we are 9 mill under the cap?

BowDown
09-03-2008, 01:33 PM
I think if Angelo wasn't as handcuffed as he is under the McCasky's he might've brought us a Superbowl Championship.

I know every year there were a couple big name players who if say Snyder was our owner, Angelo would of easliy brought in to play for us. I mean what player wouldn't want to play here if that were the case. Angelo does what he can with the drafts and every 5 years when the owners decide this is the year they made enough money that he can spend some, he does.

Angelo does what he can. I say if we really have a problem the way things are run, we need to hope the team is sold to someone who doesn't mind putting in money where their mouth is.