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AIMelo=KillaDUO
09-02-2008, 12:19 AM
So... Tha ESPN "Experts" predicted 39 wins for us, this flat out disgusts me. :pity:

I can't wait till we prove tha WHOLE league wrong.

Camby didn't win us 11 games last year. But, that's my humble opinion
Let me know wat you guys think...


Heres tha link.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=WestOffseasonPredictions

DenButsu
09-02-2008, 12:34 AM
So... Tha ESPN "Experts" predicted 39 wins for us, this flat out disgusts me. :pity:

I can't wait till we prove tha WHOLE league wrong.

Camby didn't win us 11 games last year. But, that's my humble opinion
Let me know wat you guys think...

Yeah, I'd guess that even Nugs haters would deem that a foolishly low win prediction for Denver. That's ridiculous.

Got a link?

BenFrank
09-02-2008, 12:59 AM
Wow, that it.. I expect thay will will win more, I don't think the nugget's is done though, thay should still have cap for 1 more good fill in.. there up 2 something, thay have 2 be

liliverson819
09-02-2008, 01:08 AM
i hope were up to something but im not gonna get my hopes up cuz the last time we were really up to something was ai besides that its all been talk

AIMelo=KillaDUO
09-02-2008, 01:20 AM
Yeah, I'd guess that even Nugs haters would deem that a foolishly low win prediction for Denver. That's ridiculous.

Got a link?

Just edited and I added tha link sorry about that.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=WestOffseasonPredictions

AIMelo=KillaDUO
09-02-2008, 01:21 AM
I hopin tha same thing you guys are. :pray:

DenButsu
09-02-2008, 01:37 AM
Just edited and I added tha link sorry about that.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=WestOffseasonPredictions

No problem - just too lazy to dig it up myself. :smoking:

TheFuture6
09-02-2008, 06:26 PM
Until I see us play below the level we did last season, I believe that we will win 50 again.

C-Dub
09-03-2008, 07:20 AM
i think we are better than last season, there aint no way we only get 39

eman
09-03-2008, 12:48 PM
I was at a loss to why all the NBA analysts seemed to be down on the Denver Nuggets. Giving up on Marcus Camby, a player that refashioned and resurrected his career while in Denver, couldn't be the only reason why the Nuggets are slated to win 11 fewer games than they did last year. A year in which the Nuggets lost a key player to a cancer scare, had a player return from micro-fracture surgery, a backcourt in disarray and a mercurial up and coming superstar.

What I think the analyst are seeing is that Nuggets are slowly becoming the Denver 76'ers and they don't believe AI can make a team better, but with the passage of time the team will only become worse. This is totally a subjective view however as the analysts have a tendacy to use character issues to determine how good an athlete will be. Character issues can sometimes interfere with getting your game to the court but it doesn't determine who actually has game.

However there are still some ginormous questions that still need to be answered before the opinion makers will be swayed. Can Nene' and Kenyon fill the void left by Marcus and can they continue to recover from injuries and illness? Can there finally be a decision who will play opposite of AI at the point guard position? Will JR and Linas continue there maturation and raise the level of their games. Will addition by subtraction, losing Marcus, Eduardo, Bobby Jones and Yakhouba help? Can the addition of more athleticism to the bench in the persons of Sonny Weems, Birdman and Balkman help make the Nuggets better defensively. And the biggest question of all, will Melo use his inspirational play in this summers Olympics as a springboard to superstardom?

DenButsu
09-03-2008, 08:17 PM
eman, I'm not sure I really understand - what exactly do you mean when you say the "Nuggets are slowly becoming the Denver 76'ers"?

C-Dub
09-03-2008, 11:04 PM
he means its just like AI with the 76ers only in denver, so in a way, you guys agree with eachoher

DenButsu
09-04-2008, 03:50 AM
he means its just like AI with the 76ers only in denver, so in a way, you guys agree with eachoher

I understand the reference, but basically the usual rap on most of AI's Sixers teams is, "He took a crap team to the Finals", "He was the man on a crap team", etc. So what I was getting at was does he think the rest of the Nuggets besides AI are crap players?

C-Dub
09-04-2008, 04:41 PM
i hope not that is crazy to say that

DenButsu
09-04-2008, 07:55 PM
i hope not that is crazy to say that

Yeah - and just fwiw, eman's been posting here a pretty long time now, and I don't think that's where he was going with that. But it's just what it looks like on the surface, to me at least, which is why I'd like a more detailed breakdown of what that means.

IversonIsKrazy
09-04-2008, 07:55 PM
39, woah no way we'll b that low. i c us winning 45-48wins.

liliverson819
09-04-2008, 10:34 PM
well being overlooked worked for the pistons in 03 hopefully it will work for us. only they relied on defense to win

SUNDUNDIDIT
09-05-2008, 01:34 AM
eman, I'm not sure I really understand - what exactly do you mean when you say the "Nuggets are slowly becoming the Denver 76'ers"?


He's implyin the reason analysts are rankin us so below
, because they probably lookin at the Nuggets as the next 76ers....



Quote the whole sentence, not just that one part...


"What I think the analyst are seeing is that Nuggets are slowly becoming the Denver 76'ers"


Kapice???

DenButsu
09-05-2008, 10:16 AM
Well that still doesn't explain what it means, specifically - and he did say the same thing in another thread, too:


When I looked at this stat I understood what the Nuggets had become, the Denver 76'ers!

And don't get me wrong, eman - I'm not trying to give you a hard time or anything. I do just want to know what you mean, that's all.

eman
09-05-2008, 11:00 AM
Sorry that it took so long to get back here. AI did take the 76'ers to the finals one year and was the MVP of the league that year. From that point on they were trying to build a team around AI so that they could get back to the finals which they never did. What the Philadelphia front office finally did was give up on him and trade him to the Nuggets for three late first round picks and Andre Miller. Eventually the Denver front office will be faced with the same dilema, hell this board is full of lets get Livingston or Heinrich or somebody who will better fit in with AI's talent and obscure his difficiencies.

As I have said before I am a huge AI fan and have been watching his career since his Georgetown years when he crossed over on two 7 footers and dunked over both of them before they even had time to react. But the very reasons why he is a star in this league are the same reasons which make it difficult to build a team around him.

When the analyst talk about premier point guards in this league it is with the general understanding that they make the players around them better. I want you to answer this question honestly. Has anyone on the Nuggets gotten better since AI has been here?

SlowMo
09-05-2008, 11:53 AM
When the analyst talk about premier point guards in this league it is with the general understanding that they make the players around them better. I want you to answer this question honestly. Has anyone on the Nuggets gotten better since AI has been here?

Ok:
1. JR Smith
2. Anthony Carter (even though he's not great, without AI opposite him he would have been nothing)
3. LK

Essentially, all our shooters will get better with Iverson. He's gonna draw a lot of attention and when our shooters line up and stay open they get lots of good looks. Plus, a point will get lots of assists when he's got the option of AI an Melo.

The main reason people are interested in Livingston or Heinrich is to improve our ball movement. When AI starts out with the ball, he dribbles around for a long time, then drives once, twice, maybe three times before shooting or passing. So it would be nice to have someone else start with the ball to keep our players moving and involved.

Players don't work out for a team for so many reasons. Only one team wins the Finals, and tons of incredibly talented players don't win it. Don't start blaming AI because The Nuggets didn't win a playoff game last year. It wasn't AI's fault, it wasn't Camby's fault, it wasn't Melo's fault... Maybe it was AC's fault. JK.

Blame The Nuggets as a team and an organization. Things didn't mesh right.

eman
09-05-2008, 01:50 PM
The main reason people are interested in Livingston or Heinrich is to improve our ball movement. When AI starts out with the ball, he dribbles around for a long time, then drives once, twice, maybe three times before shooting or passing. So it would be nice to have someone else start with the ball to keep our players moving and involved.


AHA!! This is my point exactly because this is AI's game, he needs the ball in his hands to be effective. He is not a point guard, he is a scoring guard with a scorers mentality asking him to be something else would be asking him to not to be the "answer". This is the exact same rap that Kobe gets in LA, but when it all came down to it they needed Kobe to keep on being Kobe and the rest of the team to get better which the Pau Gasol trade did. The Nuggets before the trade for AI were a nice team that was always fighting for that last playoff spot. They did win the Midwest one year but again that was with fewer wins than they got last year and were promptly ousted in the first round of the playoffs. In the analysts eyes nothing has really changed in Denver, in fact things have gotten worse with giving away the dpoy and they feel, not me, that the league especially the West has gotten significantly better and passed the Nuggets by. I have been trying to play devils advocate in trying to explain what the analyst have seen to justify the Nuggets only winning 39 games.

jgonboricua
09-05-2008, 02:35 PM
camby was huge for you guys......unless you go something quik you wont even make the playoffs...maybe it will be good for you guys to be a lottory team again, grab a big man in the draft and get right back in the mix of things...

F15Eagle
09-05-2008, 04:44 PM
AHA!! This is my point exactly because this is AI's game, he needs the ball in his hands to be effective. He is not a point guard, he is a scoring guard with a scorers mentality asking him to be something else would be asking him to not to be the "answer". This is the exact same rap that Kobe gets in LA, but when it all came down to it they needed Kobe to keep on being Kobe and the rest of the team to get better which the Pau Gasol trade did. The Nuggets before the trade for AI were a nice team that was always fighting for that last playoff spot. They did win the Midwest one year but again that was with fewer wins than they got last year and were promptly ousted in the first round of the playoffs. In the analysts eyes nothing has really changed in Denver, in fact things have gotten worse with giving away the dpoy and they feel, not me, that the league especially the West has gotten significantly better and passed the Nuggets by. I have been trying to play devils advocate in trying to explain what the analyst have seen to justify the Nuggets only winning 39 games.


SlowMo is correct !!! Eman is very wrong on the facts !!!! SlowMO has a more intelligent and accurate presentation than Eman. Eman stop pretending to like Iverson, your writing suggests the contrary. The 2001 Sixers had more experienced and better players than any year afterwards. The 2001 team was replaced with a younger team with players like Dalenbert, Iggy, Green etc. They were not building around AI, they were rebuilding. Iverson is a combo guard, who has led the NBA four times in scoring, and ranks in the top five for several seasons in assists and steals, and a perenial top 10 in scoring, assists, and steals. He is the easiest person to build a team around.
Nuggets will win more games than last season barring any injuries, or unforeseen circumstances.

Perl567
09-05-2008, 06:10 PM
camby was huge for you guys......unless you go something quik you wont even make the playoffs...maybe it will be good for you guys to be a lottory team again, grab a big man in the draft and get right back in the mix of things...

Hey everyone- long time reader, first time poster. There is NO WAY we'll be a lottery team this year. Period. Camby is good- no doubt. I watched every game, and when he actually blocked shots and got rebounds, he was AWESOME. But I saw so many guys run around him and push him around that it was ridiculous. He did not get very many (if any at all) offensive rebounds. I understand that that is part of the offense (or I think it is) to bring the big man out of the middle so we can make cuts, but c'mon... hes our STARTING CENTER. He didn't score, unless you call his moon shot a great offensive weapon. I'll have to say he did pad his stats an awful lot. There were too many times I saw 'Melo go up for a rebound and look at Camby, who grabbed said rebound, like "What the f are you doing?" I think that if we even have a possibility at the trade deadline to make the playoffs, we will make a move that is already in the works to push us towards the top. Will we win it all? Probably not. Will we be first round out again? Probably, but I hope not. I was very impressed with how we played the Spurs throughout the season, so if we get them again, I think we got it this time.

All I can say is although he is a great guy, he is not what the Nuggets needed. The Nuggets won more games last year than back in the Doug Moe/Dan Issel/Mark Jackson days- barring stupid injuries, which is routinely common for Nuggets forwards/centers (like Raef Lafrenz, Laphanso Ellis, Antonio McDyess, Kenyon Martin, Nene, all potential all-stars that have not really been the same since, just to name a few) I definitely think we are at least a 45-50 wins team, even w/o Camby. As long as we don't have a donk like Bernie Bickerstaff running the FO, we should be good-to-go.

SlowMo
09-05-2008, 06:24 PM
camby was huge for you guys......unless you go something quik you wont even make the playoffs...maybe it will be good for you guys to be a lottory team again, grab a big man in the draft and get right back in the mix of things...

I agree that the Camby loss was huge. I loved the guy, and even though I cringed whenever he shot the ball, I also cheered like hell when he nailed that 3-pointer in the playoffs.

So yes Camby was a huge part of our team, and thus is a huge loss. But I don't really think it changes the talent of our starters. Nene (i think) is more talanted at D, just not as lanky. And he'll be a better post-up or dunk in your face offensive player. He'll got some blocks and a lot of rebounds, but not as much as Camby. Rather than this being a huge problem for the nuggets, I see it as a huge transition. Our forwards (mostly Melo) will not be able to run the floor as much cause they should be boxing out on D for the rebounds more this year.

I could still see a 50 win season this year.

With that said, I would love to see more depth behind Nene/Kmart/Hunter, I won't be surprised if at least one of them misses a lot of games from injury...

DenButsu
09-05-2008, 08:45 PM
SlowMo is correct !!! Eman is very wrong on the facts !!!! SlowMO has a more intelligent and accurate presentation than Eman. Eman stop pretending to like Iverson, your writing suggests the contrary. The 2001 Sixers had more experienced and better players than any year afterwards. The 2001 team was replaced with a younger team with players like Dalenbert, Iggy, Green etc. They were not building around AI, they were rebuilding. Iverson is a combo guard, who has led the NBA four times in scoring, and ranks in the top five for several seasons in assists and steals, and a perenial top 10 in scoring, assists, and steals. He is the easiest person to build a team around.
Nuggets will win more games than last season barring any injuries, or unforeseen circumstances.

ivyleague1

eman
09-06-2008, 04:43 PM
On a major sports website there is an analysis of the upcoming NBA season which predicts that the Denver Nuggets will only win 39 games. The person writing the analysis is obviously seeing something that the posters on this board cannot. I have been trying to explain what I believe this analyst is seeing.

As for my not liking AI, how in the world are you going to tell me who I don't like. Check all of my post I have never ever said anything negative about AI. When I make the statement that the Nuggets are becoming the Denver 76'ers it was only to mean that eventually they will be dominated by AI's performance just like the 76'er teams in Philadelphia. To suggest that the whole time that AI was with the Philadelphia 76'ers they were not trying to build around him especially after they went to the playoffs and he was the MVP is just ignorant.

SlowMo
09-07-2008, 02:57 PM
I know. I understand that you are just putting out an idea for why the sports analysts are expecting a 39W season from the nuggs. No hard feelings, no worries.

I was just saying why I think AI is a good fit for the nuggets, and that he has been a big factor in JR's improvement. More so than LK and Chucky. Cause although AI is not the greatest role model for a young problem guy JR, he's better than some of our other guys. I don't think I've ever seen AI take a night off, which Melo and K-Mart do sometimes.

Plus, I think all teams with future HOF players have a shot at winning the Finals. Even if it takes a little tweaking of some of the role players around them.

Rome
09-07-2008, 03:55 PM
39 is pretty low IMO. I'd say 45 at least.

AI
09-07-2008, 08:18 PM
Us loosing Najera to the Nets will be a key loss. You'll see what I mean!

DenButsu
09-07-2008, 09:04 PM
he has been a big factor in JR's improvement. More so than LK and Chucky. Cause although AI is not the greatest role model for a young problem guy JR, he's better than some of our other guys. I don't think I've ever seen AI take a night off

I understand what you're saying, and I think it makes sense in terms of AI providing an example of bringing it every night.

But I do think overall that AI's arrival stunted JR's development. And this is not Iverson's fault. It's situational. OF COURSE when they brought AI in they were going to give him his full due of minutes. And of course, because it's Karl, after the suspensions Melo would get a free pass out of the doghouse while J.R. would remain firmly stuck in there for a good long time. Most people don't remember this, but J.R. actually served TWO 9-game suspensions in the 2006-07 season - one at the hands of the NBA, and one bridging February and March at the hands of Karl, who benched him for that duration (with the exception of about 2 minutes in one game). So if anything, not only is it not AI's fault, but much more it's Karl's fault for using AI's presence as an excuse to limit J.R. (and thereby undermine his confidence).

But no matter what you attribute the cause to, if you look at what happened to J.R. after AI got here, his performance really dropped off (the gap between December and January marks both AI's arrival and the suspension):


J.R. Smith 2006-07 Season Game Log

Month Min FG Pct 3p Pct Reb Ast TO Stl Pts

NOV 29.5 41.1 31.8 2.7 1.9 2.2 1.2 16.9
DEC 28.9 42.6 42.2 2.4 1.3 1.3 0.7 16.4

JAN 26.7 45.6 37.5 2.7 1.3 1.7 0.7 14.8
FEB 22.4 38.4 35.6 2.1 1.8 1.4 0.7 12.7
MAR 18.4 39.4 30.7 2.6 1.9 0.6 1.0 9.2
APR 15.0 39.6 31.9 1.3 0.6 0.6 0.4 8.3




Date Min FG Pct 3p Pct Reb Ast TO Stl Pts
28-Nov 30 25 0 4 2 5 1 5
26-Nov 36 46.7 25 3 2 2 2 23
24-Nov 24 66.7 50 1 4 2 0 31
22-Nov 34 36.4 28.6 4 2 3 0 13
21-Nov 36 54.2 45.5 3 2 3 2 36
18-Nov 31 31.6 30.8 3 1 2 1 16
15-Nov 34 35.7 40 5 3 3 1 17
14-Nov 18 33.3 33.3 2 2 1 2 9
12-Nov 36 37.5 40 4 0 2 2 17
10-Nov 29 50 50 1 1 2 1 16
8-Nov 34 66.7 33.3 3 3 1 2 16
3-Nov 13 0 0 0 1 0 0 0
2-Nov 28 50 36.4 2 2 3 2 21
NOV 29.5 41.1 31.8 2.7 1.9 2.2 1.2 16.9

16-Dec 35 57.1 50 3 3 0 1 13
15-Dec 27 36.4 40 3 3 0 1 15
13-Dec 20 0 0 0 0 2 0 2
12-Dec 32 53.9 50 2 1 2 1 17
9-Dec 33 44.4 33.3 4 2 3 1 18
8-Dec 34 66.7 77.8 4 1 2 0 37
6-Dec 27 33.3 20 1 0 1 1 12
2-Dec 23 55.6 71.4 2 1 0 1 19
1-Dec 29 35.7 37.5 3 1 2 0 15
DEC 28.9 42.6 42.2 2.4 1.3 1.3 0.7 16.4

31-Jan 27 40 20 1 0 5 0 9
29-Jan 27 16.7 11.1 1 2 0 0 9
27-Jan 29 52.9 40 2 0 1 1 28
26-Jan 21 100 100 3 2 2 0 4
23-Jan 28 46.7 60 3 1 2 0 20
22-Jan 24 38.9 28.6 5 1 0 2 19
20-Jan 31 64.3 66.7 3 1 2 1 24
19-Jan 26 41.7 20 2 2 2 0 14
14-Jan 29 38.5 37.5 5 2 1 2 13
12-Jan 19 23.5 28.6 1 1 1 0 11
10-Jan 33 38.5 0 4 2 3 2 12
JAN 26.7 45.6 37.5 2.7 1.3 1.7 0.7 14.8

20-Feb 8 0 0 0 1 2 2 0
14-Feb 24 42.9 42.9 4 0 2 0 9
12-Feb 23 55.6 54.6 4 1 2 0 28
10-Feb 25 50 50 0 3 0 0 16
9-Feb 19 16.7 0 1 1 2 0 4
7-Feb 20 23.1 25 3 2 1 1 9
5-Feb 30 53.9 60 3 4 1 1 18
3-Feb 25 40 37.5 3 3 2 0 13
2-Feb 28 63.6 50 1 1 1 2 17
FEB 22.4 38.4 35.6 2.1 1.8 1.4 0.7 12.7

28-Mar 21 22.2 33.3 3 1 0 0 6
26-Mar 30 53.3 50 5 2 1 4 21
25-Mar 24 55.6 50 5 4 0 3 13
23-Mar 26 60 40 5 6 0 0 20
22-Mar 11 60 0 1 0 0 1 7
20-Mar 11 0 0 1 0 2 0 0
17-Mar 22 36.4 20 0 3 1 0 10
15-Mar 6 50 50 2 1 0 0 3
13-Mar 15 16.7 33.3 1 0 1 1 3
MAR 18.4 39.4 30.7 2.6 1.9 0.6 1.0 9.2

18-Apr 26 46.7 37.5 2 2 1 0 17
16-Apr 2 50 50 0 0 0 0 6
14-Apr 20 54.6 44.4 1 0 0 0 19
13-Apr 5 66.7 66.7 0 0 0 0 6
11-Apr 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
9-Apr 20 42.9 25 1 0 0 0 9
7-Apr 11 33.3 0 2 0 1 0 2
6-Apr 23 0 0 1 1 0 1 0
4-Apr 22 41.7 44.4 2 2 2 0 16
3-Apr 21 50 33.3 4 1 3 2 10
1-Apr 10 50 50 1 1 0 1 6
APR 15.0 39.6 31.9 1.3 0.6 0.6 0.4 8.3