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View Full Version : Cavs Might Go Small This Season



#1Mavericksfan
08-31-2008, 07:54 PM
Source: Cleveland Plain Dealer

The Cavs also are talking about some "small lineups" where LeBron James spends time at power forward, as he did with the Olympic team. We'll see how much that is used. The addition of Williams provides more speed and athleticism, which should help the team play more pressure defense with James as power forward."

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2008/08/terrys_talkin_about_the_browns.html

goku
08-31-2008, 07:58 PM
it will create mis matches for some teams that cant counter

Hawkeye15
08-31-2008, 07:58 PM
I don't think I would want LeBron playing PF for 82 games. He will be so beat up come playoff time, it wouldn't be worth it. Plus, with his passing and ball handling abilities, he should stay at the 3. Anyways, when you play small ball, you don't really have defined positions. You match up defensivley any way you can, then run

njnets
08-31-2008, 08:38 PM
i think it will help. with more guards, the lane will not be as congested, which allows him to operate. also, he is capable of playing there some minutes of the game but not all. i think this is smart of the cavs. me and dynasty started him at the 4 and everyone thought we were crazy lol.

DerekRE_3
08-31-2008, 08:43 PM
Ask Gerald Wallace how it feels to play PF...I wish Lebron the best. If it works out and he doesn't get too banged out it would create matchup hell for the defense.

KG#1
08-31-2008, 08:50 PM
it took them this long to figure this out

Cavs_Fan24
08-31-2008, 08:54 PM
well, he is the size of a PF at 6-9 260 lbs. and i think that he'd do pretty well playing at the 4 some of the time because other PFs would have to guard him and most aren't nearly quick enough to.

Hawkeye15
08-31-2008, 09:06 PM
well, he is the size of a PF at 6-9 260 lbs. and i think that he'd do pretty well playing at the 4 some of the time because other PFs would have to guard him and most aren't nearly quick enough to.

but why take away two of his great skills, ball handling, and passing? Unless you run a Dallas type offense I guess, since Dirk NEVER plays like a typicle PF.

Ph1lly Diehard
08-31-2008, 09:08 PM
Sure he would play good, but against athletic premier powerfowards such as Garnett/Brand/Oneal just to name a few in the East, he will have problems stopping them..

mcnasty54
08-31-2008, 09:08 PM
Ask Gerald Wallace how it feels to play PF...I wish Lebron the best. If it works out and he doesn't get too banged out it would create matchup hell for the defense.

LeBron has 2 inches and near 40 lbs. on Wallace. It will definitely be different than Wallace playing PF.

$ NyC $
08-31-2008, 09:18 PM
LeBron has 2 inches and near 40 lbs. on Wallace. It will definitely be different than Wallace playing PF.

i also doubt they're planning on making LeBron PF 4 the whole season...depending on match ups and what not...i think LeBron can definitely hold his own..the man has a god given body..6'9 250 or 260..and the speed/vision of a pg..body of a big man..when LeBron adds a solid 3 point shot...the league better watch out

stevefrancis
08-31-2008, 09:35 PM
the cavs are the most over rated team right now. if they called all the travels and charges lebron does he would suck.

MiamiHeat
08-31-2008, 09:38 PM
what would their lineup be if they were to play small ball?

Wallace
Lebron
Wally
West
Williams
:shrug:

_Sn1P3r_
08-31-2008, 09:39 PM
Probably.. ^^ He can hold up his own against the PFs 'cause he has the size but he's so talented and he could probably pull it off.

GCOOKIE7
08-31-2008, 09:48 PM
doesn't mean a PF has to guard Lebron. I would play my best defender on Lebron no matter what size that player is.

DerekRE_3
08-31-2008, 09:52 PM
Since when is Lebron 6'9 260? I thought he was 6'8 (at least he is listed at that, they always add an inch or two) and like 240-245 pounds.

EDIT: He's listed at 6'8 240.

bogdanrom
09-01-2008, 01:17 AM
He could play PF, but that would probably be limiting his skills a little. He would create even more problems for defenses. He doesn't need to back down low. He can make whoever is guarding step up, and the drive in and dunk it. I see no problem. I think it all depends on Lebron. If he wants to play PF, he will play PF, if he wants to play SF, he will play SF. Nobody, not the coach, not the owner, no one will make Lebron play a position he won't like.

SAVAGE CLAW
09-01-2008, 01:31 AM
Mmm bad move, how is he going to deffend 6,10 and 7 foot Pf like Duncan, Kg, Gasol, Dirk.....?

bogdanrom
09-01-2008, 01:34 AM
Mmm bad move, how is he going to deffend 6,10 and 7 foot Pf like Duncan, Kg, Gasol, Dirk.....?

He doesn't really need to defend these guys, maybe Ben Wallace will defend them.

bogdanrom
09-01-2008, 01:35 AM
Also a better question will be how are the others going to guard Lebron now?

eso
09-01-2008, 03:19 AM
i think this would be a great move if its only for short periods during games.
he would draw so many fouls against other bigs...

kid#8
09-01-2008, 03:39 AM
There will be many mismatches when they face the other team...they should hustle hard on their "D", specially on their rotation when they double a big man or the best scorer in their opponent...

They will find a hard time defending on big teams Like Lakers, Raptors and Houston...

DreamShaker
09-01-2008, 03:41 AM
what would their lineup be if they were to play small ball?

Wallace
Lebron
Wally
West
Williams
:shrug:

Yuck I forgot Wally was on their team....just yuck.

barreleffact
09-01-2008, 05:21 AM
this is a dumb move considering bron isnt great defensively and he has no post moves. so all this his body talk is stupid. he never posts. i hope they plan to just have him on the wing like dirk. if not, itll cause more problems than benefits. esp considering he cant shoot well enough to make bigs step out to guard him so he can blow by. hell, if i was a coach id go zone considering how poorly cleveland shoots

KiNgSuNs1
09-01-2008, 05:42 AM
yup yup i love to see lebron guard amare hahhahhaha

LeBrowns
09-01-2008, 01:42 PM
the cavs are the most over rated team right now. if they called all the travels and charges lebron does he would suck.

lol thanks "Steve Francis" I sure respect the opinion of someone that says Kwame Brown is one of the most underrated players in NBA history.

njnets
09-01-2008, 02:06 PM
run n gun team. i personally like it. opens the lane because of less bigs. Z over big ben though, need the height. and another big trying to guard him. wont work.

Chronz
09-01-2008, 02:42 PM
This was expected, many predict the Cavs to have a huge dropoff from their bigmen core. Lebron will help alleviate that burden. He wont play it full time, but having LeBron play 10 minutes a game at the 4 is better than leaving Ben Wallace out there.

dre1990
09-01-2008, 03:02 PM
some of the season this would be good, but he wo9uldnt be able to defed bigger PF's.

lakers4sho
09-01-2008, 03:09 PM
LeBron playing the PF?? You got to be kidding me...he can't do anything other than dribble drive. I know he has the size of a PF, but he can't post up.

And the Cavs doesn't have the offensive system to take advantage of that "mismatch" you guys are mentioning. So, LeBron would still be dribbling under that high pick and roll.

Chronz
09-01-2008, 03:22 PM
but why take away two of his great skills, ball handling, and passing? Unless you run a Dallas type offense I guess, since Dirk NEVER plays like a typicle PF.
I dont get why you think Bron playing the 4 would mean he cant handle the ball or play the same game anymore. Why would you even think he would post up bigger players if they are defending him?

Chronz
09-01-2008, 03:24 PM
LeBron playing the PF?? You got to be kidding me...he can't do anything other than dribble drive. I know he has the size of a PF, but he can't post up.

And the Cavs doesn't have the offensive system to take advantage of that "mismatch" you guys are mentioning. So, LeBron would still be dribbling under that high pick and roll.
And Ben Wallace can post up everyone huh, lmao cmon guys its like you guys think every position has a designed role, thats not how the game of basketball works. If Bron is playing the 4 it means hes surrounded by 3 shooters and 1 bigman, that means more space for his drives and the possibility of a slower defender on him or one of the other quicker players. Thats called taking advantage of the MISMATCH.

HiphopRelated
09-01-2008, 03:42 PM
Since when is Lebron 6'9 260? I thought he was 6'8 (at least he is listed at that, they always add an inch or two) and like 240-245 pounds.

EDIT: He's listed at 6'8 240.
that's when he came into the league

lakers4sho
09-01-2008, 03:51 PM
And Ben Wallace can post up everyone huh, lmao cmon guys its like you guys think every position has a designed role, thats not how the game of basketball works. If Bron is playing the 4 it means hes surrounded by 3 shooters and 1 bigman, that means more space for his drives and the possibility of a slower defender on him or one of the other quicker players. Thats called taking advantage of the MISMATCH.

Well then, he'd be playing the same role, and the Cavs will continue playing that high screen that they use 99% of their possessions. Most if not all teams know how to beat that pick and roll. They need a change of system.

Chronz
09-01-2008, 04:12 PM
Well then, he'd be playing the same role, and the Cavs will continue playing that high screen that they use 99% of their possessions. Most if not all teams know how to beat that pick and roll. They need a change of system.

Well yea they need to diversify their attack something they will do now that they have another weapon around LeBron but it will still be the staple of their offense. And yea he would still be playing his role, the only difference is that it will come from the 4 spot surrounded by more shooters increasing the effectiveness of his pick and roll sets. Good move so long as Bron doesnt suck defensively as a 4 man.

Hawkeye15
09-01-2008, 07:14 PM
Since when is Lebron 6'9 260? I thought he was 6'8 (at least he is listed at that, they always add an inch or two) and like 240-245 pounds.

EDIT: He's listed at 6'8 240.

they never change your height/weight after you come into the NBA for some reason. He was 18 when measured. He is bigger now. KG is listed at 6'11", and he is bigger than that for sure

Hawkeye15
09-01-2008, 07:18 PM
LeBron playing the PF?? You got to be kidding me...he can't do anything other than dribble drive. I know he has the size of a PF, but he can't post up.

And the Cavs doesn't have the offensive system to take advantage of that "mismatch" you guys are mentioning. So, LeBron would still be dribbling under that high pick and roll.

he can't do anything other than dribble drive? Please. With his power, who stops him on the block? Nobody. It is just risky because his body would take more abuse. I can see you are a Kobe fan. Kobe has a lifetime 34% three point percentage, James, 32.5%. And many consider Bryant a three point shooter.

barreleffact
09-02-2008, 04:21 AM
he can't do anything other than dribble drive? Please. With his power, who stops him on the block? Nobody. It is just risky because his body would take more abuse. I can see you are a Kobe fan. Kobe has a lifetime 34% three point percentage, James, 32.5%. And many consider Bryant a three point shooter.

kobe is a very consistent shooter. his lifetime is pretty low though but he is never open. im sure teams would gladly give lebron a 3 long befor they give kobe one. but with his power, who could ever stop him on the block? h/e he still never goes to it, so the answer is lebron stops himself on the block. lebron is very limited. he's a streaky shooter and basically a driver and thats it. no post moves, no post play, no great shot nor defense.

barreleffact
09-02-2008, 04:24 AM
And Ben Wallace can post up everyone huh, lmao cmon guys its like you guys think every position has a designed role, thats not how the game of basketball works. If Bron is playing the 4 it means hes surrounded by 3 shooters and 1 bigman, that means more space for his drives and the possibility of a slower defender on him or one of the other quicker players. Thats called taking advantage of the MISMATCH.

no mismatch if you go zone. the fact remains that clevelands isnt a very good shooting team. gibson can stroke, wally has lost his shot, or at least had a bad shooting season, and who else...west isnt there. isnt he overseas? a better team can run zone, double him, or just play man and give him space. drivers hate space. trust me, i know. he doesnt have a shot consistently, and everyone can get hot, but he wont for 48 minutes.

Chronz
09-02-2008, 05:59 AM
no mismatch if you go zone. the fact remains that clevelands isnt a very good shooting team. gibson can stroke, wally has lost his shot, or at least had a bad shooting season, and who else...west isnt there. isnt he overseas? a better team can run zone, double him, or just play man and give him space. drivers hate space. trust me, i know. he doesnt have a shot consistently, and everyone can get hot, but he wont for 48 minutes.

That has nothing to do with the subject at hand because you can zone up Cleveland regardless of what position Bron is playing. Having an extra shooter on the floor can only help against zones, **** put me out there instead of Ben Wallace and the Cavs will be better offensively. His only value against zones is roaming to the offensive boards so there are strengths and weaknesses to any lineup. This doesnt change the fact that you cant play zone an entire game either way its a mismatch somewhere, Bron is a mismatch whenever hes on the floor so thinking that zones somehow fully eliminate him is bogus. He struggles with an outside shot but for some reason manages to shoot a high percentage, go figure. Its not as easy as just zoning it up and making him shoot, hes just too relentless in his attack.

Gibson and Maurice are above 44% arent they and Sczerbiak should bounce back and even if he doesnt 36% from 3 is very respectable. Sasha had an injury plagued season so he should come back strong as ever and is a 40% shooter himself

barreleffact
09-02-2008, 07:08 AM
That has nothing to do with the subject at hand because you can zone up Cleveland regardless of what position Bron is playing. Having an extra shooter on the floor can only help against zones, **** put me out there instead of Ben Wallace and the Cavs will be better offensively. His only value against zones is roaming to the offensive boards so there are strengths and weaknesses to any lineup. This doesnt change the fact that you cant play zone an entire game either way its a mismatch somewhere, Bron is a mismatch whenever hes on the floor so thinking that zones somehow fully eliminate him is bogus. He struggles with an outside shot but for some reason manages to shoot a high percentage, go figure. Its not as easy as just zoning it up and making him shoot, hes just too relentless in his attack.

Gibson and Maurice are above 44% arent they and Sczerbiak should bounce back and even if he doesnt 36% from 3 is very respectable. Sasha had an injury plagued season so he should come back strong as ever and is a 40% shooter himself

lol about u bein better than ben. but seriously tho, it does pretain to the argument. i say he wouldnt be a gud 4 because he cant post and id go zone to force him to beat me by shooting. a 3-2 zone would be pretty gud i think. but ur right, a team cant go zone all game. itd be ********...almost as ******** as bron playing 4 all game. plus, i dont think i ever said eliminate him. you cant. hes on of the types of players that cant be stopped but you may be able to contain or limit. and id limit him by playing zone so he'd work harder or play man and have 1 big stay close and the one on him sag far off till he gets inside 12 to 17 feet.

Chronz
11-29-2008, 04:02 AM
BUMP

What do you guys think of the Cavs decision to play small? Has it worked???


Cavs Offensive Efficiency this year vs Last year (Ranks)

2009: 115.4 (1ST)
2008: 106.0 (19th)

Offensive Factors:
------ 2008 --- 2009
eFG% (26TH) -- (2ND)
Reb% (2ND) --- (7TH)
t.o.% (12TH) -- (8TH)
ft/a% (20TH) -- (5TH)

Pace:
2008 25th Slowest
2007 22nd Slowest

No change in pace relative to the league they are still pretty halfcourt oriented


WHO DO YOU CREDIT FOR SUCH AN ALARMING TURNAROUND?

Chronz
11-29-2008, 04:05 AM
lol about u bein better than ben. but seriously tho, it does pretain to the argument. i say he wouldnt be a gud 4 because he cant post and id go zone to force him to beat me by shooting. a 3-2 zone would be pretty gud i think. but ur right, a team cant go zone all game. itd be ********...almost as ******** as bron playing 4 all game. plus, i dont think i ever said eliminate him. you cant. hes on of the types of players that cant be stopped but you may be able to contain or limit. and id limit him by playing zone so he'd work harder or play man and have 1 big stay close and the one on him sag far off till he gets inside 12 to 17 feet.
Playing the 4 has made trapping or keying on Bron exceedingly painful, hes made best use of this spacing in the post. Surprising revelations?

DenButsu
11-29-2008, 04:46 AM
The Nuggets have played frontcourts this season where Melo, Kleiza and/or Balkman (who are all 6'8") were the biggest guys on the floor for them. They've done it quite a lot, actually, mainly during the time that Andersen was out with injury.