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View Full Version : Anyone else skeptical of Ricky Rubio?



Padres Son
08-26-2008, 05:35 PM
We were talking about it in the Celts forum and everyone else seemed sold that this kid is a slam dunk (pardon the pun) to be an NBA All-Star someday. I'm not convinced and here's why:

-- He's 17 years old.
-- His jumpshot is disgusting.
-- He plays in a mediocre league (and avgs like 10 pts 4 ast)
-- His game looks just like Jason Williams (white chocolate, not limo-driver killer).

And also there's this... Look at the list of foreign players drafted in the first round from 2002-2006 who didn't play US college ball (I'm ignoring 2007-2008 drafts because it's too early to tell):

Andris Biedriņš
Pavel Podkolzine
Viktor Khryapa
Sergei Monia
Sasha Vujačić
Beno Udrih
Fran Vázquez
Yaroslav Korolev
Johan Petro
Ian Mahinmi
Andrea Bargnani
Mouhamed Sene
Thabo Sefolosha
Oleksiy Pecherov
Sergio Rodriguez
Joel Freeland
Darko Miličić
Mickaël Piétrus
Žarko Čabarkapa
Sasha Pavlović
Boris Diaw
Zoran Planinić
Carlos Delfino
Leandro Barbosa
Nikoloz Tskitishvili
Nene
Yao Ming
Boštjan Nachbar
Jiri Welsch
Nenad Krstić

That's five years of first round players and only ONE all-star (Yao Ming). Sure, a few of these players have done well (Bargnani, Barbosa, Diaw), but most were busts and aren't in the league anymore. There have been 12 all-stars from those drafts and only one was a foreign player?? That's not a very good showing.

I sure as hell wouldn't use the number 1 pick on this dude next year if I was a GM.

Beno7500
08-26-2008, 05:37 PM
Rubio is all hype. He is nothing special.

superkegger
08-26-2008, 05:38 PM
Well he's only 17, and with Rudy Fernandez coming to the NBA, Rubio will be getting the proverbial reigns of the team. So that will show even more what kind of player he is. I don't know if he's going to be a stud or not. I think he'll probalby wait until 2010 to come to the NBA, but I think he'll work out in the NBA personally.

MiamiHeat
08-26-2008, 05:38 PM
He's only 17 he has alot to learn and improve, he grew up watching Chris Paul that's how young this guy is

bothfeef
08-26-2008, 05:40 PM
lots of GMs draft on potential, and rubio has plenty of it. you forgot on that list tony parker, ginobili, nocioni, peja, big z, turkoglu, and dirk-- those are just off the top of my head.

JOSETHEALLSTAR
08-26-2008, 05:43 PM
imo he will be a good nba player.

*Superman*
08-26-2008, 05:45 PM
He is 17 and saying he will get drafted #1 is a laugh to me. When i heard that i thought to myself" Man he could be the next CP3" but when i saw his game, it made the commenter look stupid. I will take a US college player over him anyday.

jetsfan28
08-26-2008, 05:45 PM
lots of GMs draft on potential, and rubio has plenty of it. you forgot on that list tony parker, ginobili, nocioni, peja, big z, turkoglu, and dirk-- those are just off the top of my head.

He didn't forget to list them, please read what he was listing, they weren't 1st rounders from 2002-2006

PhxGiant
08-26-2008, 05:50 PM
The kids only 17 and look at the experience he's already getting playing against grown men. With Fernandez coming to the NBA he will only improve, he'll get stronger as he matures.

We have to remember he's not like a young stud over here, because here in the US your dominating against kids your own age. But Rubio is playing very well in professional leagues in Europe playing grown men.

DerekRE_3
08-26-2008, 05:56 PM
I'm not a big Rubio fan either. I think Jennings will be better.

ATX
08-26-2008, 05:56 PM
The kids only 17 and look at the experience he's already getting playing against grown men. With Fernandez coming to the NBA he will only improve, he'll get stronger as he matures.

We have to remember he's not like a young stud over here, because here in the US your dominating against kids your own age. But Rubio is playing very well in professional leagues in Europe playing grown men.


That's how I look at it. He's a sure fire lottery pick, however the #1 overall...that's probably not going to happen.

knicks1214
08-26-2008, 05:59 PM
The reason why there is a lot of hype is because he plays incredible defense, he is only 17 years old, and still plays in one of the best leagues in the world. Spain has a very very good league, no question about that. However, I have been a little skeptical about his jumpshot. If he can develop a good jump shot, I think he can be a top 5 pg in the NBA.

fredv
08-26-2008, 06:02 PM
Tony Parker is foreign and turned out a very good player. I think he can become good but not a #1 Draft Pick.

bogdanrom
08-26-2008, 06:09 PM
I'm not sold on him yet. He does have tremendous potential, but so many others had, and look what happened( Dajuan Wagner, Kwame Brown, Kandi Man and others). My biggest problem with him he has no outside shot whatsoever.

torontosports10
08-26-2008, 06:15 PM
top 5 in my mind. Ppl are like he is nothing special basing it off the olympics where he is 17 and playing against the best players in the NBA expecting him to dominate them?? He is gonna be good he has very good defense for his age and size

I Am Awesome-O
08-26-2008, 06:36 PM
He's definately overrated, especially with the Steve Nash comparisons. You have got to be kidding me with those. Still, I think he can be a good player, but not anywhere near as good as Nash or another top-flight point guard. He definately shouldn't be getting all of this top pick hype either.

pwest6
08-26-2008, 06:38 PM
He was holding his own against the best USA has to offer. He would only be a senior in high school right now. He is only 17,and IMO, he is pretty damn good for his age.

pwest6
08-26-2008, 06:40 PM
-- He's 17 years old.
-- His jumpshot is disgusting.
-- He plays in a mediocre league (and avgs like 10 pts 4 ast)
-- His game looks just like Jason Williams (white chocolate, not limo-driver killer).

And Lebron's wasn't coming out of high school???

cmellofan15
08-26-2008, 06:43 PM
What about 50 20 and 10 at the age of 16?
Does that impress anybody?

Mile High Champ
08-26-2008, 06:55 PM
I sometime have to think its an issue of race sometimes.. Im not saying that this is the case here but I feel as if some people dont think he can number 1 cause he is in fact a white Player, like its an insult or something or maybe its something against european players. His game IQ is incrdible, one of the best among pg's entering the draft. He plays outstanding defense for a pg, a true shutdown defender at the point guard spot. His jumpshot needs improving but what player does not need to work on their shot at the age of 17. He is also a great playmaker as well. You cant judge his playmaking by his assist numbers, it works a lot differently in europe..The only way for you to registar an assist essentially is for the player to get a basket without using a dribble. My guess is he could average 15 and 9 in the nba in the future.. HE has a lot of talent, cant deny it, im sorry... He is a future Star!

Hawkeye15
08-26-2008, 07:00 PM
Let's send our best 10th grader over to Europe and see what he can do. Rubio can be a fantastic player. Did you notice even against our team, he just lives in the passing lanes? His shot is no good, true, but that will improve. You saw his Nash like alleyoop passes against us, and he just seems to trick you into picking up your dribble, then there he is, in the passing lane. I think he will be sweet.

Hawkeye15
08-26-2008, 07:02 PM
What about 50 20 and 10 at the age of 16?
Does that impress anybody?

exactly. This kid should be starting his senior year today, and he just held his own, kind of, against the likes of Chris Paul and Deron Williams. Sorry, he is so far advanced for his age it is scary. Especially on defense

Mile High Champ
08-26-2008, 07:05 PM
exactly. This kid should be starting his senior year today, and he just held his own, kind of, against the likes of Chris Paul and Deron Williams. Sorry, he is so far advanced for his age it is scary. Especially on defense

defense is the big thing for him, he is an outstanding man on man defender and thats stranger cause in europe they only ever play zone...He though understands how to player proper man to man defense and move his feet and legs to his advantage. He is not a typical european player by any means...

MTar786
08-26-2008, 07:13 PM
he's a stud.. top 3 pick trust me

blacknell
08-26-2008, 07:20 PM
he really didn't impress me any he can't play chris paul and peeople like baron davis in the nba he should stay in spain and any gm using a #1 pick on him is dumb and there team sucks

Hawkeye15
08-26-2008, 07:22 PM
he really didn't impress me any he can't play chris paul and peeople like baron davis in the nba he should stay in spain and any gm using a #1 pick on him is dumb and there team sucks

he can't buy beer for 5 years here. I think you need to judge him a little different. In 8 years, when he is 25, Davis will be long gone, and he will be guarding the point guards we have in 12th grade right now. That is the point. He is a top 3 pick, easy

lalakobe24
08-26-2008, 07:24 PM
17 year old kobe would keeeel ricky rubio

BleedPurple
08-26-2008, 07:27 PM
Ive been following Rubio since i read an article in Slam magazine when he was 14,it caught my eye because they called him the next Magic Johnson, and Iam a Lakers fan.So Ive googled him alot in the past few years.He is not all hype,he is going to be the next CP3 maybe even better.People who say he will suck are just haters. This kid has a good head on his shoulders and all he wants is to be the best.Whoever drafts him will have a franchise point guard for at least 10 years. Quote me on that.

BleedPurple
08-26-2008, 07:30 PM
17 year old kobe would keeeel ricky rubio

Without a doubt, Kobe was far more advanced at his age. Rubio will be an amazing player though.

bogdanrom
08-26-2008, 07:35 PM
What about 50 20 and 10 at the age of 16?
Does that impress anybody?

Not really, since it was at the European U17 Tournament, and in a double overtime game. Still I know for sure I couldn't do it. He has tremendous potential,but nobody has mentioned his attitude, it'd good to be a little cocky, it even helps, but he kind of except calls, and I saw in NBADraft.net that he doesn't like to practice with his teammates. In the end depending on what team gets the first pick there is real good possibility he could go 1st

Hawkeye15
08-26-2008, 07:36 PM
17 year old kobe would keeeel ricky rubio

who knows? Kobe was playing against a bunch of high school kids. If Rubio were in US high schools today, his stats would be unreal. 20, 10 rbs, 10 asts, 8 stls, ridic. At least. Just the fact that he has played pro basketball for 2 years, I think he is farther than Kobe was. That being said, no, he doesn't have the upside Kobe had most likely. We are talking about a 17 year old kid, vs a top 20 player ever. Lets not predict the kids future until he is over here.

bogdanrom
08-26-2008, 07:37 PM
I sometime have to think its an issue of race sometimes.. Im not saying that this is the case here but I feel as if some people dont think he can number 1 cause he is in fact a white Player, like its an insult or something or maybe its something against european players. His game IQ is incrdible, one of the best among pg's entering the draft. He plays outstanding defense for a pg, a true shutdown defender at the point guard spot. His jumpshot needs improving but what player does not need to work on their shot at the age of 17. He is also a great playmaker as well. You cant judge his playmaking by his assist numbers, it works a lot differently in europe..The only way for you to registar an assist essentially is for the player to get a basket without using a dribble. My guess is he could average 15 and 9 in the nba in the future.. HE has a lot of talent, cant deny it, im sorry... He is a future Star!

1.He really does, it's sometimes amazing watching pass, and reading and reacting. He doesn't have a lot of faults(shooting, maybe defense), but he needs to improve and he will probably will since he 17 about to turn 18.

2. Me:D

Hawkeye15
08-26-2008, 07:40 PM
1.He really does, it's sometimes amazing watching pass, and reading and reacting. He doesn't have a lot of faults(shooting, maybe defense), but he needs to improve and he will probably will since he 17 about to turn 18.

2. Me:D

well then post your name so we can look you up on rivals.com

richardle9
08-26-2008, 07:41 PM
he is way overated and i dont care if he is 17

SensandRaps
08-26-2008, 07:42 PM
i think rubio can be a star in the nba if he learns to play up to his potential

mamba24
08-26-2008, 08:02 PM
lots of GMs draft on potential, and rubio has plenty of it. you forgot on that list tony parker, ginobili, nocioni, peja, big z, turkoglu, and dirk-- those are just off the top of my head.

last 5 yrs you dink...

IndyRealist
08-27-2008, 12:12 AM
One of the pitfalls of research is that researchers sometimes try to make the data fit their theory, ignoring or otherwise obscuring data that contradicts what they're trying to prove.

1) The list is skewed because it doesn't not include foreign players who chose to attend US universities. There's no reason not to include foreign born college students, except to eliminate from the pool international players who were recruited into the NBA's development pipeline.
2) The list is skewed because the selection of years 2002-2006 was not arbitrary. The dates were deliberately selected to exclude Pau Gasol, Vladimir Radmanovic, and Tony Parker, all selected in 2001.

If the list is extended just one more year, to the 2001 draft, then you have 3 of 33 possibilities as all stars, for a 9% all star rate. In that same period of time, 171 other players were drafted in the first round, with 22 all stars (my unofficial count), for a 16% all star rate. Seeing as many top name European talent chooses to play in Europe instead of playing in the NBA, a 9% rate is pretty high.

When Jason Williams came into the league, comparisons to Jason Kidd were inevitable. While those aspirations never materialized, the same comparisons can be made of Rubio. Maybe he'll pan out, maybe he won't. I'm just saying, look at all the facts.

narekolo
08-27-2008, 12:24 AM
The kid is 17...he played great against the best of the NBA

I think u shud give him a break since he has soooo much growing up to do until he is drafted...i think hes gna be a very solid point guard

Hellcrooner
08-27-2008, 12:26 AM
Ok lets take your point.

1 he does not score in his team because RUdy fernandez is the Best player and the leader, you have to add that euro game shares the ball much more than nba so you hardly see 1st option averagin 30 points second 18 and the rest bellow 10 like in nba

its more like all the starting five scores between 10 and 15 a game.

oh dont forget we play 40 minutes and not 48.

2 spanish league is recognised to be the second best national league in the world, and as far as i can remember Grizzlies, Raptors and 76ers got beat by Madird, barcelona and Unicaja malaga the last time they met.

3 14 years old americans were playing plystastion when he started to play top level.

4 his main focus is DEFENSE, something new in an euro, and passing, you know is stupid to compare him to maravich by his looks, the most acurate woudl be comparing him with Kidd since he is past first, good d and makes players around better, Kidd never was a 25 ppg guy and still got llabeled a star.

5 Of course he didnt score much in the olympcis, should he have shot more instead of looking for the pass to "scrubs" like Gasol, gasl II, Garbajsoa, Rudy, navaroo or Calderon who are Nba players????.

6 h DIDNT suck against the best THREE point guards in Nba, and more or less held his ground on an olympic final, i gruatee you the average american 17 year old player would have been so nervous that woldnt have been able to deffend even earl boykins.Oh and remeber he wont play one of those three every day, if he held his own against them, what makes you think he cant ALREADY dominate such starters as, Nelson, Watson, Fisher, Ridnour, duhon and so on...

7 he is still going to develop leadership and shooting sincehe will remain two more years perpring himself in euroleague.

8 yeah of course, all euros are busts, like Parker, Gasol, nowitzky, Stojackovic, divac, Sabonis, etc etc etc.

9 andall hs players were a success, like Dajuan Wagner, Curry, Kwame, Forte, etc etc et.

Stop the hate and the Chauvinism please.

bogdanrom
08-27-2008, 12:38 AM
Even though I'm skeptical of his scoring, especially shooting, he's one of the best passers I've ever seen. He could develop into one of the best European players ever, or he could be a bust. We don't know. There have been dozens of players just like him or with more potential that have been busts. He almost 18 and still can improve. Playing in the Olympics helped him a lot, also next year is a really important for him, since I think he will be receiving more minutes. Already comparing him to Nash, and Kidd? I mean c'mon these are HOF's, let's wait. In a way I hope the kid comes in the NBA and is going to be really good.

nbafan19
08-27-2008, 12:46 AM
The kid can play! He should be a top draft choice once he is joins the draft.

LA_Raiders
08-27-2008, 12:57 AM
That kid is going to be something special in the NBA...

Padres Son
08-27-2008, 12:59 AM
One of the pitfalls of research is that researchers sometimes try to make the data fit their theory, ignoring or otherwise obscuring data that contradicts what they're trying to prove.Yes, that's called making a point. I'm not doing scientific research... I'm stating an opinion and supporting it with facts that support my opinion.


1) The list is skewed because it doesn't not include foreign players who chose to attend US universities. There's no reason not to include foreign born college students, except to eliminate from the pool international players who were recruited into the NBA's development pipeline.The point of excluding foreign born players who played for US colleges was to show that players who don't play the American game before they get to the NBA have a lower success rate than those that do. If you want to look at the stats of the number of foreign players who succeeded in the NBA after playing in the NCAA, please do. It'll support my argument even further.


2) The list is skewed because the selection of years 2002-2006 was not arbitrary. The dates were deliberately selected to exclude Pau Gasol, Vladimir Radmanovic, and Tony Parker, all selected in 2001.No, I was initially going to look at drafts from the past five years, but in an effort to be more objective, because it's difficult to make a call about whether a player was a good selection or not in the first two years, I skipped the last two drafts and looked at the previous five. Including 2001 doesn't really change my point. Yes, Gasol and Parker are good. I don't know what your point is with Radmanovic.


If the list is extended just one more year, to the 2001 draft, then you have 3 of 33 possibilities as all stars, for a 9% all star rate. In that same period of time, 171 other players were drafted in the first round, with 22 all stars (my unofficial count), for a 16% all star rate. Seeing as many top name European talent chooses to play in Europe instead of playing in the NBA, a 9% rate is pretty high.Thanks for making my point for me.


When Jason Williams came into the league, comparisons to Jason Kidd were inevitable. While those aspirations never materialized, the same comparisons can be made of Rubio. Maybe he'll pan out, maybe he won't. I'm just saying, look at all the facts.I'm not going to pretend I know the future. But I do know the past and there has been a lot more hype than substance coming from foreign players in the draft. I think that we should see what this kid can do in the NBA before the comparisons to Pete Maravich, Steve Nash, and Chris Paul start.

FOBolous
08-27-2008, 01:06 AM
this kid started playing in the Euroleague since he was 15.

imagine if there is a kid who started playing college basketball at the age of 15.

Hellcrooner
08-27-2008, 01:09 AM
mmm
howy many unsuccesfull euros can you find among those who waited until they were either 23 years old + or after they played at least 2 or 3 years At a TOP euro team , like Pau or Manu or Peja, or Divac, or Claderon or Sabonis.


basically the ones who failed where guys like MIlicic or tKISVILI that made the jump TOO SOON because the had no EUROLEAGUE expericnec since they had played in rate b or rate c teams
or those who jumped directly form youth schemes of a team to nba witout a pro debut in europe like that poland guy in the knics.

Hellcrooner
08-27-2008, 01:10 AM
Lampe was the name.

This is not the case for rubio, he will arrive after 5 r 6 seaons of top level play.

Padres Son
08-27-2008, 01:37 AM
^^ Hey man, I hope you're right. I hope he does succeed. I'm just not putting him in the hall of fame before he plays a game.

LAKERS 24/7
08-27-2008, 03:38 AM
he played pretty well during the gold medal game. i think he'll do pretty damn good in the NBA

Faneik
08-27-2008, 12:57 PM
one word: INTANGIBLES

He'll be an all-star

Rome
08-27-2008, 12:59 PM
The kid is sick. How could you not like him? Only 17 and has been playing against grown men for awhile. He still has many years to work on his game, more importantly his jumper. They say he's the next pistol Pete. I think he played pretty decent against the us and for 17 that's saying something. He had some nice plays in that game.

True he won't be number one overall but I'd take him top 5 on potential. Get someone to work on his jumper and if he has a veteran point guard to learn from the kid could be an all star by 22.

bogdanrom
08-27-2008, 01:47 PM
Failure in the NBA has nothing to do with the continent and country he's from. Just because someone is from Europe means that he 's going to suck? What! That's the stupidest things I've ever heard. The only reason guys fail in the NBA is because they are overrated by scouts, coaches, because they don't want to work or because of something else not because he is from Europe. You guys act like the US has never had player who had tremendous potential and failed. I don't know the numbers but there have been a lot more American players that have not lived up to their potential than all foreign players that have not lived up to expectations. The thing is right now no one can call him a bust or a HOFer. He' way too young for that. He's at least 2 years away from the NBA.
I have another thing what if a European team or from another continent offers him a real big deal, higher than in the NBA?

Nighthawk
08-27-2008, 02:24 PM
his shot may be disgusting but its effective. he can drain shots...hes quick, excellent court vision, passing well, takes control. Hes still young.....hes 17 for christ sakes. SEVENTEEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hes going to be a stud

superkegger
08-27-2008, 02:59 PM
The one thing other than a jumper that rubio lacks is athleticism.

He's not terrible, but from what I've seen, he's not a spectacular athlete.

PhxGiant
08-27-2008, 03:19 PM
^^^ Yeah but people knock Nash's athleticism and he plays incredible. As long as you develope the right skill set and have a good basketball IQ you can do wonders without much athletic ability.

FOBolous
08-27-2008, 03:24 PM
^^^ Yeah but people knock Nash's athleticism and he plays incredible. As long as you develope the right skill set and have a good basketball IQ you can do wonders without much athletic ability.

especially if you're a PG.

bogdanrom
08-27-2008, 03:44 PM
his shot may be disgusting but its effective. he can drain shots...hes quick, excellent court vision, passing well, takes control. Hes still young.....hes 17 for christ sakes. SEVENTEEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hes going to be a stud

Actually he's about to be 18 but yeah I know he's really young.

IndyRealist
08-28-2008, 06:23 PM
Yes, that's called making a point. I'm not doing scientific research... I'm stating an opinion and supporting it with facts that support my opinion.


That's not called making a point because your point is invalid if the supporting data is flawed. a 16% vs 9% ratio of allstars is not a significant difference if you include all-star caliber players who choose never to play in the NBA. The collegiate system pulls quite a few talented foreigners to the US to play, the pool of US players has no such outlet for talent (until recently). So excluding foreign collegiate players reduces the available talent pool to make foriegn born players seem to have less talent. What you're doing is skewing data to reflect your opinion, a slightly larger data set clearly contradicts your opinion. If I limit the data to players named Vlade Divac, then Behold! There is one foreign born all star vs ZERO US all stars. I win. *sarcasm, in case you missed it*

You change your opinion to coincide with the facts, you don't change the facts to coincide with your opinion. Do you really not see anything wrong with how you presented your case?