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americanoutlaw
08-25-2008, 11:31 PM
Seeing peoples have all ready posting posts about The upcomming offseason I made this post for we all can talk about the offseason like on what moves the sox need to make.

BeAn 5 ToWnE
08-25-2008, 11:38 PM
But this season isn't even over...

americanoutlaw
08-25-2008, 11:39 PM
peoples been posting there ideas

athlete9393
08-26-2008, 01:18 AM
Seeing peoples have all ready posting posts about The upcomming offseason I made this post for we all can talk about the offseason like on what moves the sox need to make.

we need to sign ben sheets and get a prospect cathcer and/or prospect 3b.

Osiagledknarf
08-26-2008, 01:44 AM
I had to re-read the title of this thread like 3 times before I understood what he meant...holy awesome grammar, Batman.

After that...I think we need to NOT sign Ben Sheets. And NOT sign Sabathia.

I'm A-OK with going after prospects, cool...go for it.

The only major kind of trade I would be okay with would involve trading Lowell for prospects, moving Youkilis to third, and signing Teixeira...though I doubt highly that it would happen anyway. I love Lowell, but that kind of move would make us instantly younger and better...not bad. It'll never happen though, haha.

RedSoxtober
08-26-2008, 08:25 AM
Great, another "what should we do this offseason" thread before September. That makes... 3 or 4 this month.

lil'papi
08-26-2008, 08:51 AM
I'm guessing people that make them... have given up this year.

We have all winter to whine, complain , argue then cajole or is that console, on off season deals.

We want Holliday, CC or Sheets, Putz and Teix. After that they can do whatever. Keep Lowell as a back up 3b & 1b. Lose Cora.....keep Casey just don't let him use Drew's pillow anymore.

Osiagledknarf
08-26-2008, 09:13 AM
I'm guessing people that make them... have given up this year.

We have all winter to whine, complain , argue then cajole or is that console, on off season deals.

We want Holliday, CC or Sheets, Putz and Teix. After that they can do whatever. Keep Lowell as a back up 3b & 1b. Lose Cora.....keep Casey just don't let him use Drew's pillow anymore.


I think you're throwing "we" around a little loosely! Haha...just kidding, kinda. I don't want any of those first 4! I REALLY don't want Sabathia or Sheets...maybe I've mentioned that? I'll take Teixeira gladly though. That's the first time I had even thought of keeping Lowell as a backup...kinda expensive...but I'd love to keep him! I think if you do that though it's farewell Casey.

lil'papi
08-26-2008, 09:22 AM
We , as in me and my Rottweilers. :D They can't type.

Osiagledknarf
08-26-2008, 09:38 AM
Haha...fair enough...my Yellow Lab can't type either. She's a Mets fan though (her name is Shea), so I'm not sure she cares about what the Red Sox do this winter, haha.

futureheisman
08-26-2008, 10:23 AM
Red sox offseason checklist

1. Bolster the Bullpen: Many games have blown many games by not having a good enough bullpen. Soulution: Sign will ohman and juan cruz.

2. get another starter: The backend of the rotation worrys me and with josh beckett's injury. Sign C.C and burnett and really bolster this rotation C.C will be about 6 years 18 per you could probably get burnett for 5 65 mill. I would do that.
2009 rottion

Beckett
C.C
lester
Dice K
Burnett

Bullpen:

Lefties: Will ohman okijima Lopez

Righties:MDC Cruz Smith bard Pauley-long man

Closer: paps


3. get matt holliday

RedSoxtober
08-26-2008, 01:06 PM
Aside from being the cheapest lefty available at the trade deadline, can anyone tell me what is so compelling about Ohman's career?



SEASON TEAM W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR HBP BB SO
2000 Chicago Cubs 1 0 8.10 6 0 0 0 0 0 3.1 4 3 3 0 0 4 2
2001 Chicago Cubs 0 1 7.71 11 0 0 0 0 0 11.2 14 10 10 2 0 6 12
2005 Chicago Cubs 2 2 2.91 69 0 0 0 0 3 43.1 32 14 14 6 3 24 45
2006 Chicago Cubs 1 1 4.13 78 0 0 0 0 0 65.1 51 30 30 6 5 34 74
2007 Chicago Cubs 2 4 4.95 56 0 0 0 1 1 36.1 42 20 20 3 1 16 33
2008 Atlanta Braves 3 0 3.35 69 0 0 0 1 4 51.0 39 22 19 3 1 20 48

It appears that most of the buzz that he got was related to one great month (July 1.46 era) and a few good ones. He's posted a 7+ era since Aug 1 and is migrating back to his career averages... which I don't see as an improvement to this pen.

yaowowrocket11
08-26-2008, 02:04 PM
Is there a reason everyone wants Holliday? I believe we have one of the best OF's in the game. Bay is signed until after 2009, Ellsbury will be here a while, Drew is signed until after 2011.........

Osiagledknarf
08-26-2008, 03:09 PM
Is there a reason everyone wants Holliday? I believe we have one of the best OF's in the game. Bay is signed until after 2009, Ellsbury will be here a while, Drew is signed until after 2011.........


YES! Amen!



Red sox offseason checklist

1. Bolster the Bullpen: Many games have blown many games by not having a good enough bullpen. Soulution: Sign will ohman and juan cruz.

2. get another starter: The backend of the rotation worrys me and with josh beckett's injury. Sign C.C and burnett and really bolster this rotation C.C will be about 6 years 18 per you could probably get burnett for 5 65 mill. I would do that.
2009 rottion

Beckett
C.C
lester
Dice K
Burnett

Bullpen:

Lefties: Will ohman okijima Lopez

Righties:MDC Cruz Smith bard Pauley-long man

Closer: paps


3. get matt holliday


1.) Will Ohman is going to get rocked hard in the AL, Juan Cruz will probably fare only slightly better. None of the free agent bullpen guys out there is really a reliable solution...if we're gonna fix the 'pen, we're going to need to get more creative than just signing the only guys out there because they had a good year this year...these would be average to poor signings, and in my opinion would totally avoid the purpose of improving the bullpen.

2.) I don't want to come off as arrogant...but the money and years you are throwing around for Sabathia and Burnett are just absurdly ridiculous. You would absolutely regret both of those moves within 3 years at the most...even if you only did one of them. Doing both is just...I don't even know...just...really, really, really bad business and personel planning. Both are unnecessary anyway...what happened to Wakefield, Buchholz, Masterson, Bowden, or any other of the plethora of cheaper, comparable pitchers you could have instead via free agency or trade? Both those moves would run us inextricably into the ground in the long run...there's going to be baseball seasons after 2009 that you might want to consider. I think that rotation you have planned there is totally unrealistic, and I think those signings would be terrible to catastrophic. I'll be brutally honest, I just could not believe that whole suggestion.

You also have like...9 guys in the bullpen...you have a 14 man pitching staff. Which means our bench would be like...2 guys, and you get to pick from the lot of Crisp, Casey, Cash, and Lugo...wow. I hope Lugo can catch. So all that just doesn't make any sense.

Also...try and try as I may to get confirmation on what exactly MDC stands for, no one will clue me in. Is it Manny Delcarmen? Delcarmen is one word. I don't get it.

3.) There's no room for Holliday...you already have all three outfield positions locked up. And besides that...do you want to take a guess as to what Colorado is going to ask for Holliday? A whole metric butt-load of players and probably money. Also...Holliday is the same player as Bay...pretty much the exact same skillset. Why would you do that? That makes no sense at all. It would require a huge outlay of prospects and draft loss, for exactly the same product. That trade would be non-effectual to poor, at best.


With all respect of course, I have to say...I seriously and categorically disagree with every single suggestion you made, haha.

PapelbonLester
08-26-2008, 03:57 PM
Is there a reason everyone wants Holliday? I believe we have one of the best OF's in the game. Bay is signed until after 2009, Ellsbury will be here a while, Drew is signed until after 2011.........

im with yaowowrocket here. Bay is the ****in MAN and we should extend his contract this offseason. Ellsbury is our franchise CF and will probably patroll the great finds of fenways CF for a long time. Drew got the contract and proved he was worth it this season so he will be here till 2011. Dont look for our outfield to change in the next 3 years imo. If they are all heathy we do have a top outfield. just hope we can sign sheets this offseason. cuz the yanks are going to throw enuf money at cc that he could buy the mcdonalds franchise. look for cc to be in pinstripes and if we can counter with sheets. UHHHHH how would Beckett, Sheets, Dice- K, Lester, Wakefield look......imagine?????????????

futureheisman
08-26-2008, 04:38 PM
YES! Amen!





1.) Will Ohman is going to get rocked hard in the AL, Juan Cruz will probably fare only slightly better. None of the free agent bullpen guys out there is really a reliable solution...if we're gonna fix the 'pen, we're going to need to get more creative than just signing the only guys out there because they had a good year this year...these would be average to poor signings, and in my opinion would totally avoid the purpose of improving the bullpen.

2.) I don't want to come off as arrogant...but the money and years you are throwing around for Sabathia and Burnett are just absurdly ridiculous. You would absolutely regret both of those moves within 3 years at the most...even if you only did one of them. Doing both is just...I don't even know...just...really, really, really bad business and personel planning. Both are unnecessary anyway...what happened to Wakefield, Buchholz, Masterson, Bowden, or any other of the plethora of cheaper, comparable pitchers you could have instead via free agency or trade? Both those moves would run us inextricably into the ground in the long run...there's going to be baseball seasons after 2009 that you might want to consider. I think that rotation you have planned there is totally unrealistic, and I think those signings would be terrible to catastrophic. I'll be brutally honest, I just could not believe that whole suggestion.

You also have like...9 guys in the bullpen...you have a 14 man pitching staff. Which means our bench would be like...2 guys, and you get to pick from the lot of Crisp, Casey, Cash, and Lugo...wow. I hope Lugo can catch. So all that just doesn't make any sense.

Also...try and try as I may to get confirmation on what exactly MDC stands for, no one will clue me in. Is it Manny Delcarmen? Delcarmen is one word. I don't get it.

3.) There's no room for Holliday...you already have all three outfield positions locked up. And besides that...do you want to take a guess as to what Colorado is going to ask for Holliday? A whole metric butt-load of players and probably money. Also...Holliday is the same player as Bay...pretty much the exact same skillset. Why would you do that? That makes no sense at all. It would require a huge outlay of prospects and draft loss, for exactly the same product. That trade would be non-effectual to poor, at best.


With all respect of course, I have to say...I seriously and categorically disagree with every single suggestion you made, haha.




Man you would use will ohman as a guy to get lefties out and juan cruz hsd pitched well in the american league. the contracts for burnett and C.C are what they would be seeking on the market. You want bucholz starting next year????? Materson is going to be in the bullepn and bowden wouldn't be ready. With holliday how is he a jason bay type player. He hits for more power than bay and this year he has a .339 average. He had 36 Hr and 120 RBI's last year.

RedSoxtober
08-26-2008, 06:56 PM
Please look at my earlier post (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6417692&postcount=12) and tell me what is exciting about Ohman's track record. He looked good at the break when he was compiling a 1.46 era and great numbers against lefties but he's been terrible this month and that's put him right back as an average 4+ ERA MR.

Osiagledknarf
08-27-2008, 01:41 AM
Man you would use will ohman as a guy to get lefties out and juan cruz hsd pitched well in the american league. the contracts for burnett and C.C are what they would be seeking on the market. You want bucholz starting next year????? Materson is going to be in the bullepn and bowden wouldn't be ready. With holliday how is he a jason bay type player. He hits for more power than bay and this year he has a .339 average. He had 36 Hr and 120 RBI's last year.


Concerning Ohman and Cruz:
Ohman is not excellent, he's not above average...he's only sporadically good. Like Redsoxtober suggested, look at his numbers...there's very little to be impressed by. You already have Lopez...you don't need two lefty specialists.

Juan Cruz has pitched exactly one year in the American League...2005 with the Oakland Athletics. His numbers were as follows:

0-3, 7.44 ERA with 38 hits allowed, 22 walks allowed and 27 earned runs allowed in 32.2 innings through 28 games.

So...he hasn't pitched well in the American League at all...in fact he's pitched horribly in the American League.

Based on that, how is it that Ohman and Cruz are likely to be anything more than sub-par in Boston?


Concerning Sabathia and Burnett
The money/years on Sabathia and Burnett may very well be what they ask for...and some teams might even flirt with those numbers. That doesn't change the fact that they would be horrible, progress inhibiting moves that you would definitely regret. You'll stunt your young guys' development, jam your rotation with over-payed pitchers whose contracts you will have very little chance of moving if...and most probably when...you decide you need to, and seriously limit your payroll flexibility. This idea is completely flawed and bound for failure in every way, in my opinion.

I totally and completely disagree with the Sabathia idea, but I at least understand the impulse behind it. This Burnett idea is utterly absurd though...and to actually believe getting both of them would be either possible or advisable suggests a serious lack of foresight and understanding, in my opinion.

Of course I want Buchholz pitching next year, that's precisely why we drafted him and have so closely monitored his development with such high hopes. He has tremendous talent and upside, and to write him off now because of a rough 2008 is another very poor decision.

As far as Masterson, I haven't heard any release in which the Red Sox have committed to keeping him in the bullpen, and to the best of my knowledge he will be slotted as a started in Spring Training next year. So, he'll be competing for a spot in the Major League rotation and he's proven he can be a competent and successful starter at that level. So, if this is true...and it so far certainly seems to be...he should be given that chance. It's cheaper, just as effective, and better for the organization as a whole.

You don't need to march an ace out to the mound everyday, and indeed it's prohibitive in terms of development and money to do so. If for some reason Buchholz or Masterson or both don't work out, there are plenty of available options to turn to...and they don't need to cost you massive contracts over many years.


Concerning Holliday and Bay
Holliday and Bay are similar in that they will each provide you comparable offensive production and defensive support. Their average homeruns per year are very similar (Holliday: 25.4, Bay:24). Holliday has also benefitted from substantially better protection around him in the Colorado lineup than has Bay in the meager Pittsburgh lineup. Put either one of them in the Boston lineup and the production will very likely be convincingly similar.

Holliday is hitting .339 this year, true. Since joining the Red Sox, Bay is hitting .341. In that same time, Holliday has only 2 more homeruns than Bay. Holliday has 15 RBI's in that time...Bay has 20.

My point is not that one is better than the other, but rather that on the Red Sox...they will produce about the same. And that's exactly how Holliday and Bay are very similar players.

Aside from that...you already have Bay. Rightfield is set, Centerfield is set, Leftfield is set, and your Fourth Outfielder will certainly not be from a choice of Holliday, Bay, Ellsbury, or Drew. You're stuck with Drew for at least another year contractually and you're not likely to find a trading partner for him. Ellsbury is the future and you're not moving him. I've already demonstrated how Bay and Holliday are most likely effectively the same.

So, it makes no sense to move Bay in favor of Holliday since you are not likely to see much greater production...especially when you already have Bay under contract for 2009. And, there's no other spot available for Holliday on the roster anyway! Besides that...Holliday is not a free agent and it would take a fortune to pry him out of Colorado. Consider what they asked for Fuentes at the deadline, and then consider that Holliday is many, many times more valuable than Fuentes.

So while you may want Holliday...it would be a nonsensical, unnecessary, and costly move that...again...would considerably cost the Sox in the long run, in my opinion.

Osiagledknarf
08-27-2008, 02:23 AM
UHHHHH how would Beckett, Sheets, Dice- K, Lester, Wakefield look......imagine?????????????


I think it looks about the same as Beckett, Matsuzaka, Lester, Wakefield, and some combination of Masterson and Buchholz.

If you want to bolster your depth, get creative. Go after more Bartolo Colon-type deals. Do it for Colon another year...do it for Mark Prior...try Kris Benson...or Jason Jennings. These are all guys who would be looking for short term deals at very affordable rates so they can re-establish their value and try to get better deals after 2009. I'm not entirely sure what the situation is with Freddy Garcia, but you might be able to pull off the same thing with him. These are low cost, very low risk signings that could be very fruitful...and you avoid the long term, heavy signings like Sheets and Sabathia and Burnett that everyone is talking about but that have a good chance of coming back to bite you in the long run.

I don't know...I just think it seems more sensible.

RedSoxtober
08-27-2008, 08:14 AM
I think it looks about the same as Beckett, Matsuzaka, Lester, Wakefield, and some combination of Masterson and Buchholz.

If you want to bolster your depth, get creative. Go after more Bartolo Colon-type deals. Do it for Colon another year...do it for Mark Prior...try Kris Benson...or Jason Jennings. These are all guys who would be looking for short term deals at very affordable rates so they can re-establish their value and try to get better deals after 2009. I'm not entirely sure what the situation is with Freddy Garcia, but you might be able to pull off the same thing with him. These are low cost, very low risk signings that could be very fruitful...and you avoid the long term, heavy signings like Sheets and Sabathia and Burnett that everyone is talking about but that have a good chance of coming back to bite you in the long run.

I don't know...I just think it seems more sensible.

I'm split about the type of deal that might get done this offseason. The Sox general trend has been to make the kinds of deals your suggesting for Benson and they may well do it to provide depth no matter what else happens. I think the big name starters will be too expensive but they really are the only attractive pieces on the FA market. For that reason I would not be surprised to go after one of those names and then deal a high prospect to fill a hole somewhere else.

hdanb
08-27-2008, 09:25 AM
Let's stop mortgaging the future! We got Lars Anderson Lefty 1B and Josh Reddick Lefty OF in AA and one more year away. We have Mike Bowden RHSP in AAA and Dan Bard RHRP in AA both can make the team next year. After that we have a bunch that will be ready by 2010-2011. Why mortgage all this for CC (who is done every September and out of gas for the Playoffs. Or AJ who's time on the DL would be Chat room fodder if it wasn't for Pavano.

Right now we have from the farm system, Youk, Pedroia, Lowrie, Lester, Delcarmen, Papalbon, Ellsbury and Masterson. Where would we be without them. You could also put Lopez in there. We have Buckholtz who has to season a little more, but should be ready by mid-2009. Why spend big bucks to block the pipeline or trade away others for deadwood (remember Gagne) Look at Murphy, Moss, Shoppach, Murton, Hanley Ramerez, and Fredy Sanchez, I am sure we would all like to have them back.

Just think how much younger and stronger the Sox would be if we didn't trade away prospects (Remember Bagwell).

This year we had injuries to Manny (when here) Ortiz, Wakefield, Becket (twice) Drew, Lugo, Dice-K, Lowell, and others and we loss Manny for good and we are still in the race because we had a farm system that gave us young athletes that can play.

Manny is gone, Schilling will retire, Lugo will be traded, Renteria's deal will be over (we've been paying $9,000,000 per year on this guy, another Big Buck Bust)That's about $45,000,000 in savings. Put in the farm system. Sign these topnotch guys like this year who everyone else thinks are going to college.

Let the Yankees, Mets, Tigers, Rangers, and the rest overpay for middle-aged talent, give me hungry young athletes, in top shape, never on steroids and spend the bucks on the pipline.

RedSoxtober
08-27-2008, 04:44 PM
Let's stop mortgaging the future! We got Lars Anderson Lefty 1B and Josh Reddick Lefty OF in AA and one more year away. We have Mike Bowden RHSP in AAA and Dan Bard RHRP in AA both can make the team next year. After that we have a bunch that will be ready by 2010-2011. Why mortgage all this for CC (who is done every September and out of gas for the Playoffs. Or AJ who's time on the DL would be Chat room fodder if it wasn't for Pavano.

...

Let the Yankees, Mets, Tigers, Rangers, and the rest overpay for middle-aged talent, give me hungry young athletes, in top shape, never on steroids and spend the bucks on the pipline.

First, welcome to PSD.

Second, can you explain how we would "mortgage the future" for Sabathia? He is a free agent this offseason and the conjecture is about trying to sign him as a free agent. He would cost nothing but cash and a draft pick next year.

It's also a bit absurd to complain that Sabathia "is done every September and out of gas for the Playoffs". That is not a problem with CC it is a problem with his managers. He has been out of gas (for one playoff run) because his managers threw him 240+ innings during the season. Go back and look at what he's done the past few Aug/Sep and then imagine that in the playoffs if his innings were managed so that he were hitting October with only 210-220IP.

Last, in what way is Sabathia "middle aged"? He just turned 28 and, if he took Wake's place, would make the Sox average age in the rotation around 27.

I'm not in favor of signing him because of the length and total value of the contract that he's likely to command. If he were in the $90M/5yr range I'd be all over him but when you add 2yrs and probably $3M-5M/yr more he's not worth it.

lil'papi
08-28-2008, 10:11 AM
If you scrutinize every deal then look at our team with the same eyes. ;)

lil'papi
08-28-2008, 10:26 AM
Let's stop mortgaging the future! We got Lars Anderson Lefty 1B and Josh Reddick Lefty OF in AA and one more year away. We have Mike Bowden RHSP in AAA and Dan Bard RHRP in AA both can make the team next year. After that we have a bunch that will be ready by 2010-2011. Why mortgage all this for CC (who is done every September and out of gas for the Playoffs. Or AJ who's time on the DL would be Chat room fodder if it wasn't for Pavano.

HUH, CC is a plain cash deal. The yrs and money must be right. No mortgaging anything.... RST summed it up nicely.

Right now we have from the farm system, Youk, Pedroia, Lowrie, Lester, Delcarmen, Papalbon, Ellsbury and Masterson. Where would we be without them. You could also put Lopez in there. We have Buckholtz who has to season a little more, but should be ready by mid-2009. Why spend big bucks to block the pipeline or trade away others for deadwood (remember Gagne) Look at Murphy, Moss, Shoppach, Murton, Hanley Ramerez, and Fredy Sanchez, I am sure we would all like to have them back.

Where would they fit in? We lose Beckett in this wonderful idea and the WC he helped bring here last year.

Just think how much younger and stronger the Sox would be if we didn't trade away prospects (Remember Bagwell).

Not much, really no room for them. Would you start Sanchez over Pedy? Moss over Bay I can go on and on. You can't drive from the back seat.

This year we had injuries to Manny (when here) Ortiz, Wakefield, Becket (twice) Drew, Lugo, Dice-K, Lowell, and others and we loss Manny for good and we are still in the race because we had a farm system that gave us young athletes that can play.

Plus adding Bay, Byrd and now Kotsay.

Manny is gone, Schilling will retire, Lugo will be traded, Renteria's deal will be over (we've been paying $9,000,000 per year on this guy, another Big Buck Bust)That's about $45,000,000 in savings. Put in the farm system. Sign these topnotch guys like this year who everyone else thinks are going to college.

We've already been doing that... nicely I might add.B]

Let the Yankees, Mets, Tigers, Rangers, and the rest overpay for middle-aged talent, give me hungry young athletes, in top shape, never on steroids and spend the bucks on the pipline.

[B]We already are , how do you know which ones used steroids? And which ones did use them currently? That's the inference correct?



I am all for loading up the farm they already are doing that and to spend the 45mil more on the farm is just wasting money.

We can't just fill every need from the farm system. We need to kick tires when the need is there. Sorry...

The farm serves several purposes one is to use them as needed the other to use as trade bait.

No sure things in the minors...ask the Yankees Hughes and Kennedy were pegged for stardom just last year. ;)

Osiagledknarf
08-28-2008, 11:13 AM
I am all for loading up the farm they already are doing that and to spend the 45mil more on the farm is just wasting money.

We can't just fill every need from the farm system. We need to kick tires when the need is there. Sorry...

The farm serves several purposes one is to use them as needed the other to use as trade bait.

No sure things in the minors...ask the Yankees Hughes and Kennedy were pegged for stardom just last year. ;)


Hmmm. I'm obviously big on prospects, but I agree with lil'papi when he says that the farm system is there to serve a number of needs, including trade pieces. Also, I'm really not that well versed in how the organization allocates the budget, but $45 million on player acquisition for the minor leagues does seem like a mighty hefty sum.

At the same time I do agree with hdanb, whole-heartedly...very, very whole-heartedly, when he says not to sign Sabathia. I know it's a straight cash transaction with Sabathia, but I think the terms of any such deal (money and years) would just be logically prohibitive. I'm personally comfortable enough with the pitchers we currently have in the system (MLB and Minors) and I think you could still put together a very formidable staff with only smaller scale trades and signings. I know that's obviously a contentious issue in these threads, but I feel pretty confident in the more conservative line of thought, and I'm also not at all convinced of the need to sign another top flight, high priced pitcher.

As far as Hughes and Kennedy...they're both still going to be very good. They've both had some setbacks, but they're going to bounce back. I wouldn't write them off at all...I really hope the Yankees are...but I certainly wouldn't.

futureheisman
09-06-2008, 12:08 PM
the priorties need to be to bolster the bullpen: You sign a starter lets say it is c.c its probably 18 mill out of the 45 mill The other 27 million will be spent this way:

Bullpen: arthur rhodes and brandon lyon do to bolster this pen. So this would be your pen

LHP:Rhodes okjima and lopez

RHP: Lyon materson pauley-long man

Closer: Papelbon

The Intimidator
09-06-2008, 12:21 PM
I'm not sure that they would make that big of an attempt to get Rhodes. I mean, it's good to have lefties in the pen, but do we really need three situational lefties? I don't think so. We need to go out and search for a legit set-up man, unless they really feel that Manny DelGagne is the right man for the job.

Tragedy
09-06-2008, 12:23 PM
the priorties need to be to bolster the bullpen: You sign a starter lets say it is c.c its probably 18 mill out of the 45 mill The other 27 million will be spent this way:

Bullpen: arthur rhodes and brandon lyon do to bolster this pen. So this would be your pen

LHP:Rhodes okjima and lopez

RHP: Lyon materson pauley-long man

Closer: Papelbon
They'll likely stick with two lefties, and they're obviously going to put in Aardsma and Delcarmen.

Papelbon, Okajima, Delcarmen, Aardsma, Lopez are the locks for next year, IMO. I think it's anyones guess what they decide on those final two spots. Maybe they ask Masterson to SU for the next season until they push him to the rotation in 2010, or maybe they won't.

The Intimidator
09-06-2008, 12:32 PM
They'll likely stick with two lefties, and they're obviously going to put in Aardsma and Delcarmen.

Papelbon, Okajima, Delcarmen, Aardsma, Lopez are the locks for next year, IMO. I think it's anyones guess what they decide on those final two spots. Maybe they ask Masterson to SU for the next season until they push him to the rotation in 2010, or maybe they won't.

He has been the unsung hero in this bullpen this year, IMO. And I hope that, if they don't feel that Masterson is needed in the rotation, they try to slide him into the set-up role. DelGagne scares me.

futureheisman
09-06-2008, 04:07 PM
hahaha delgagne try to trade him this offseason

RedSoxtober
09-06-2008, 06:22 PM
I think MDC is just a MR guy. As tantalizing as his FB is he simply cannot repeat it when the pressure is on for any length of time.

The Intimidator
09-06-2008, 07:17 PM
I think MDC is just a MR guy. As tantalizing as his FB is he simply cannot repeat it when the pressure is on for any length of time.

He also can't seem to put back-to-back solid outings together, regardless if they are in a pressure situation or not.

Tragedy
09-06-2008, 07:48 PM
I think Soxtober is right - Delcarmen is probably a MR for 2009. I think they'll still give him the opportunity to pitch in the 8th inning in the beginning, but he'll ultimately prove to be a MR going forward. The Red Sox would be smart to invest some cash/prospects in a trade in bringing in someone that can be the top SU man.

The Intimidator
09-06-2008, 09:00 PM
Who do you think will be out there?

SocksPhan
09-06-2008, 10:50 PM
The offseason is far away, but its clear that the top need is for a catcher to replace Varitek in a few years. They should also consider Burnett or Sheets. (CC will be a Yankee .. no doubt)

Get the Tek deal done...maybe look to deal for a set-up guy, and see if you can make a deal for a real catching prospect..other than that they are in good shape for next year..

Osiagledknarf
09-07-2008, 07:29 AM
The offseason is far away, but its clear that the top need is for a catcher to replace Varitek in a few years. They should also consider Burnett or Sheets. (CC will be a Yankee .. no doubt)

Get the Tek deal done...maybe look to deal for a set-up guy, and see if you can make a deal for a real catching prospect..other than that they are in good shape for next year..


You know, I think you're right. They should consider Burnett or Sheets...but they should do so only when they are making the list of "Players We Should Definitely NOT Sign."

futureheisman
09-07-2008, 10:28 AM
how about this japense guy there trying to sign

The Intimidator
09-07-2008, 11:47 AM
You keep asking about him, but there isn't any new news. :mad:

MinnesotaSoxfan
09-07-2008, 07:07 PM
how about Eddie Guardardo as a lefty out of the pen or Dennys Reyes, Twins will let one go.

Would also like to see them try and sign another starter to add depth, this can be anyone from AJ Burnette, Been Sheets, or CC Sabathia (gotta ask). Also wouldn't mind if they passed on those 3 and resigned Paul Byrd to start the year and then maybe let Buchholtz mature some more in the minors.

Watch Jon Garland he could be someone to look at if the Angles pass on him.

The Intimidator
09-07-2008, 07:37 PM
^^^Good thought, but we don't need another situational lefty. Sabathia is most likely a Yankee next year though, and I would stay away from Burnett. I do like your idea of possibly re-signing Byrd though. He could be a valueable 4th or 5th starter.

76YazwSideburns
09-07-2008, 08:26 PM
how about this japense guy there trying to sign

Yu Darvish?

If it's him you're talking about I'd be in favour of the sox signing him

Osiagledknarf
09-07-2008, 08:28 PM
A bunch of guys have said it already, but we have no need for Guardado or Reyes or any other situational lefty. We're all set on that.

Jon Garland isn't necessary either. Burnett is the same story. so is "Been" Sheets. I like that...Freudian slip? Haha. I dislike the Sabathia idea as well.

I wouldn't mind seeing Byrd back for a year...why not? I'm not sure how much more Buchholz can learn in AAA though. We'll see I guess.

The Intimidator
09-07-2008, 08:44 PM
If the Sox feel that Buchholz has gotten his head out of his rear end, then I'm sure they'll let him have a crack at being their 4th or 5th starter.

Osiagledknarf
09-07-2008, 09:08 PM
I sure hope so...for me, it's definitely the most appealing plan.

The Intimidator
09-07-2008, 09:27 PM
Appealing and low-cost.

Osiagledknarf
09-08-2008, 04:54 AM
Dude...seeing that Brady picture on the bottom of your posts is depressing me!

MagicBucsSox
09-12-2008, 01:05 PM
man I'm supporting the sheets over sabathia bandwagon, but I'd be happy with either
I'm close to starting the trade mike Lowell thread I so wish he went to philly, if we can get youk at third n mark tex at first n I definately could see ortiz shipped out in a yr or two cas he simply our version of fred taylor, he did a 180 to the guy he was in 05 n o6

futureheisman
09-12-2008, 05:21 PM
i like the text and youk idea... one thing we to do is get rid of timilin

The Intimidator
09-12-2008, 06:03 PM
man I'm supporting the sheets over sabathia bandwagon, but I'd be happy with either
I'm close to starting the trade mike Lowell thread I so wish he went to philly, if we can get youk at third n mark tex at first n I definately could see ortiz shipped out in a yr or two cas he simply our version of fred taylor, he did a 180 to the guy he was in 05 n o6

Never met a Sox fan who didn't want Mike Lowell around...why do you wish he went to Philly?

MagicBucsSox
09-12-2008, 08:29 PM
I'm just dont like him ya he had a great yr n was ws MVP but he' old n all I just think youk is a better player for 3rd n tex can be our cleanup hitter to get David ortiz back to Big Papi

The Intimidator
09-12-2008, 08:35 PM
Hate to burst your bubble, but we aren't going to sign Teixeira.

MagicBucsSox
09-12-2008, 10:18 PM
Idk si.com claims the stankees gone resign giambi so idk

MagicBucsSox
09-12-2008, 10:23 PM
ps I believe in matt cassel too, last time pats started a nobody backup he won 3bowls n a Asante Samuel dropped int from having greatest season ever

76YazwSideburns
09-12-2008, 10:33 PM
man I'm supporting the sheets over sabathia bandwagon, but I'd be happy with either
I'm close to starting the trade mike Lowell thread I so wish he went to philly, if we can get youk at third n mark tex at first n I definately could see ortiz shipped out in a yr or two cas he simply our version of fred taylor, he did a 180 to the guy he was in 05 n o6

I'm in favour of signing neither - one due to his injury history, the other for his injury future.

Plus, we'll pay through the nose for both.

On the Lowell front, I'd wait until Lars Anderson is ready. When he is, shift Youk to 3rd, Lars at first. Lars' arrival should dovetail nicely with the expiration of Lowell's contract.

Besides, we'll need Anderson's minimal salary on the books because by the time he comes up, Youk, Pedroia, (in our infield) will be getting paid what they should - which is well, because they're good. Tex doesn't make our finances pretty that way.

Freel for prez
09-12-2008, 10:36 PM
ps I believe in matt cassel too, last time pats started a nobody backup he won 3bowls n a Asante Samuel dropped int from having greatest season ever

Is this a baseball forum or a football forum?

GrkGawdofWalkz
09-13-2008, 07:39 AM
Trade for Jared Burton of the Reds. Call me crazy, but this kid is going to be a stud set up man for the next 5 years. In free agency, I would go hard after Brandon Lyon, and invoke conversation in the CC Sabathia mix. He's probably going somewhere warm.

Ewagner
09-13-2008, 09:48 AM
our biggest need is to get a catcher. i am for keeping varitek even if we have to over pay. we just need someone who can split time with him. let a young catcher come in and catch the veterans and let varitek catch the younger guys and teach them how to pitch. pitching is not as big a need as some people keep staying. with lester, beckett, and dice-k we have a solid one through three. i beleive we can resign byrd and let the five spot revolve with younger guys ie buchholz, bowden, or even zink.

MagicBucsSox
09-13-2008, 10:28 AM
u guys think Epstein would go after Krod over the beloved papelbon?

BeAn 5 ToWnE
09-13-2008, 10:35 AM
u guys think Epstein would go after Krod over the beloved papelbon?

Hell. No.

Sportfan
09-13-2008, 11:22 AM
YES! Amen!





1.) Will Ohman is going to get rocked hard in the AL, Juan Cruz will probably fare only slightly better. None of the free agent bullpen guys out there is really a reliable solution...if we're gonna fix the 'pen, we're going to need to get more creative than just signing the only guys out there because they had a good year this year...these would be average to poor signings, and in my opinion would totally avoid the purpose of improving the bullpen.

2.) I don't want to come off as arrogant...but the money and years you are throwing around for Sabathia and Burnett are just absurdly ridiculous. You would absolutely regret both of those moves within 3 years at the most...even if you only did one of them. Doing both is just...I don't even know...just...really, really, really bad business and personel planning. Both are unnecessary anyway...what happened to Wakefield, Buchholz, Masterson, Bowden, or any other of the plethora of cheaper, comparable pitchers you could have instead via free agency or trade? Both those moves would run us inextricably into the ground in the long run...there's going to be baseball seasons after 2009 that you might want to consider. I think that rotation you have planned there is totally unrealistic, and I think those signings would be terrible to catastrophic. I'll be brutally honest, I just could not believe that whole suggestion.

You also have like...9 guys in the bullpen...you have a 14 man pitching staff. Which means our bench would be like...2 guys, and you get to pick from the lot of Crisp, Casey, Cash, and Lugo...wow. I hope Lugo can catch. So all that just doesn't make any sense.

Also...try and try as I may to get confirmation on what exactly MDC stands for, no one will clue me in. Is it Manny Delcarmen? Delcarmen is one word. I don't get it.

3.) There's no room for Holliday...you already have all three outfield positions locked up. And besides that...do you want to take a guess as to what Colorado is going to ask for Holliday? A whole metric butt-load of players and probably money. Also...Holliday is the same player as Bay...pretty much the exact same skillset. Why would you do that? That makes no sense at all. It would require a huge outlay of prospects and draft loss, for exactly the same product. That trade would be non-effectual to poor, at best.


With all respect of course, I have to say...I seriously and categorically disagree with every single suggestion you made, haha.

you think wake, bucholz, masterson, or bowden are COMPARABLE to CC?
oh yeah MDC is delcarmen.

Osiagledknarf
09-13-2008, 12:49 PM
you think wake, bucholz, masterson, or bowden are COMPARABLE to CC?
oh yeah MDC is delcarmen.


I think with Beckett, Lester, and Matsuzaka holding down the 1-3 spots, and Wakefield or Byrd or someone similar in the 4 spot, the rotation seems very solid. There are plenty of options for the 5 spot.

I do not think any of those guys (Wakefield, Buchholz, Masterson, or Bowden) are as good as Sabathia in a head to head, one on one sense. Absolutely not. Sabathia is an outstanding pitcher.

What I mean by "comparable" is that the aggregate results you would achieve with Wakefield, Buchholz, Masterson, Bowden, etc. would be similar to those you would get if you had Sabathia in the rotation. That is, I think the final season record would probably be very similar with Sabathia as it would with the other group, give or take a few games. If that is so, I don't see Sabathia is a worthwhile investment. Obviously, some people disagree with me. Some others agree.

But, hopefully that clarifies what you were asking about!

lil'papi
09-14-2008, 10:41 AM
So what if we trade for a catcher. The reports are getting stronger they are. We lose a top pitching prospect. Take one of the B's off your list. (possibly)

Again, when the availablility is there you jump on it.

We almost got Santana , I said then , wait for CC. No lost prospects. They thought long and hard on Santana and almost had a deal. CC is no different.

Lester came on is one reason they wouldn't. But Becketts elbow is a reason they will. I'm not limiting this to CC either. Try Sheets, Burnett the guy that handed us our lunch yesterday.

I dunno, should be interesting.

lil'papi
09-14-2008, 10:43 AM
our biggest need is to get a catcher. i am for keeping varitek even if we have to over pay. we just need someone who can split time with him. let a young catcher come in and catch the veterans and let varitek catch the younger guys and teach them how to pitch. pitching is not as big a need as some people keep staying. with lester, beckett, and dice-k we have a solid one through three. i beleive we can resign byrd and let the five spot revolve with younger guys ie buchholz, bowden, or even zink.


Exactly, hence the need for a pitcher, we are about to lose one.

Osiagledknarf
09-14-2008, 04:27 PM
If you trade a pitcher to pick up a catcher, then sure...you'll need another pitcher. Where we disagree, however, is that I don't think you'll need a 1A type pitcher to replace a prospect pitcher. You can replace that prospect with a lesser free agent pitcher or minor trade.

I'm sure most of you have noticed, but lil'papi and I have debated this back and forth, haha.

I was really against the proposed Santana deal. While I'm still opposed to this Sabathia business, I'd be even more opposed to Sheets or Burnett.

futureheisman
09-17-2008, 04:51 PM
mlbtraderumors.com says the sox are in on salty

lil'papi
09-18-2008, 08:41 AM
I'm not debating, wait , yes I am.

We lose a prospect pitcher who they project to win X amount of games and X amount of innings we then sign a slob and pay 200 a seat at Fenway, people will get twisted. :D

CC by the time the markets finish crashing will be cheap. Problem is Henry will be broke too.

CanadianSoxFan
09-18-2008, 11:45 AM
anyone still interested in sheets? he may be done for the season after leaving last nights start. Initially it appeared that he hurt his arm on an ugly swing but he has stated that there has been pain in the elbow for the last few weeks. Message to Theo: don't waste your time and money on these kinds of risks (sheets) or inconsistent pitchers (burnett). If you are going to make a move, go get CC. You're the red sox and you can afford anything. If you don't want to sign CC then just go with the Colon type guys. It's all or nothing for me.

RedSoxtober
09-18-2008, 04:03 PM
anyone still interested in sheets? he may be done for the season after leaving last nights start. Initially it appeared that he hurt his arm on an ugly swing but he has stated that there has been pain in the elbow for the last few weeks. Message to Theo: don't waste your time and money on these kinds of risks (sheets) or inconsistent pitchers (burnett). If you are going to make a move, go get CC. You're the red sox and you can afford anything. If you don't want to sign CC then just go with the Colon type guys. It's all or nothing for me.

Still, it's about cost vs value. The injury strikes through the notion that he's beyond the injury bug... but does it mean that he might come as a cheap, make-good guy on a 1yr deal? That could be a good bridge for the Sox if they help Wake retire.

Osiagledknarf
09-18-2008, 04:42 PM
I'm not so convinced that Sheets would be willing to go for one of those 1 year, make-good type of deals. He's had a good year, clearly pitching through pain, but still a good year. Depending on the severity of this most recent injury, it seems to me that a guy with that type of injury history has no guarantee of another relatively healthy year like this one. He may try and strike while the iron is hot, so to speak. That being said, if you can get Sheets on a Colon-type deal like that...I'm ALL for it, go for it...hard.

I will say, this latest injury speaks directly to why I have been so opposed to guys like Sheets and Burnett, who are pitching great in contract years but have obviously not eliminated major shortcomings. It's important to look at all angles.

CanadianSoxFan
09-18-2008, 05:12 PM
Agreed. I am sure someone will offer Sheets a 4 year deal for over 10mil per even with this injury (assuming it doesn't require major surgery). If that's the case, I would prefer spending double that to get the best out there and someone who you can be confident will be dominant in the AL and doesn't have the same health concerns. That said, if you can get sheets on a 1 year then definately go for it. low risk, high potential reward.

Osiagledknarf
09-18-2008, 05:14 PM
Well, I'm don't really want to pay twice more than a $10 million per contract for anyone this year...but I'm totally with you on the Sheets for 1 year thing. But like you said, I doubt highly that's even an option.

Sportfan
09-18-2008, 08:24 PM
i'd rather give up bowden than buchholz. bowden to me is just a decent #4 starter, while clay still has the potential to be an ace. I think we're giving up on him a little too quick.

76YazwSideburns
09-18-2008, 08:59 PM
anyone still interested in sheets? he may be done for the season after leaving last nights start. Initially it appeared that he hurt his arm on an ugly swing but he has stated that there has been pain in the elbow for the last few weeks. Message to Theo: don't waste your time and money on these kinds of risks (sheets) or inconsistent pitchers (burnett). If you are going to make a move, go get CC. You're the red sox and you can afford anything. If you don't want to sign CC then just go with the Colon type guys. It's all or nothing for me.

I saw that Sheets was done for this year - mind you, done for this year only means 15 day DL at this point - so we should probably wait and see what's wrong.

Personally, I don't want to touch him, and I suspect this latest injury (if only minor) made him about 2-3 million cheaper, per year, over the length of the contract he signs this off season - if it's significant, well, he's just lost a ton of money and interest.

76YazwSideburns
09-18-2008, 09:12 PM
i'd rather give up bowden than buchholz. bowden to me is just a decent #4 starter, while clay still has the potential to be an ace. I think we're giving up on him a little too quick.

He has superior stuff to Hansen and it took us 4 years to give up on Hansen.
Clay ought to be around for a while.

Tragedy
09-18-2008, 10:01 PM
i'd rather give up bowden than buchholz. bowden to me is just a decent #4 starter, while clay still has the potential to be an ace. I think we're giving up on him a little too quick.
Absolutely not.

Bowden has #2 stuff. You're about the only person that I know that believes otherwise.

Osiagledknarf
09-19-2008, 12:45 AM
I think both Buchholz and Bowden still have enough promise that, for me, it should still be very difficult to pry either one of them away. There's alot of talent in both of those arms, so rightfully it should really take a very impressive offer to get either.

futureheisman
09-19-2008, 07:01 PM
how about brandon lyon as a seup man next year

Osiagledknarf
09-19-2008, 07:34 PM
Eh...I'd pass on Lyon, but I understand why some people would be intrigued by him, I guess. He's not having a really good year, so I suppose if you could get him cheap it would be worth the risk. However, seeing as how he's been the Arizona closer this year, he may be asking for larger amounts of dollars and years.

Honestly, I'm really not that impressed with him. Admittedly, he had two very good years...2006 and 2007, both in the NL West for Arizona. Take away those two years though, and he's got a lifetime ERA hovering around 5.30. His strikeout per innings are far from impressive either. I do not think he would be even a good setup man in Boston.

futureheisman
09-20-2008, 11:38 AM
who would you guys like to see added to the bullpen im looking at kerry wood is as an 8th guy so your pen would look like

RhP: MDC Wood Materson papelbon
LHP:Okijima lopez
longman: pauley


I think that would be a lights out pen


were looking at staters such as burnett C.C and sheets personally i wouldnt go after sheets.

Our top 3 is back Beckett Lester Dice K are back you dont need a marquee guy. C.C would be nice to have but its not a need. I would love to see derck lowe back here to the 4th spot then sign a guy like freddy garcia or kyle loshe.


so heres what ur roatation

beckett
lester
dice K
lowe
garcia

Tragedy
09-20-2008, 12:40 PM
1) No, we will not sign two of Lowe/Garcia. One of those could be a slight possibility, but certainly not both. I have to asusme the Red Sox will go the same approach as last year - Sign someone cheap for year like (Colon), hope he can give you innings, and throw in Masterson/Buchholz/Bowden when said pitcher goes down with an injury.

2) Your 2009 plans don't seem to include Wakefield. Where is he? I personally would love to see him retire and move on (As much as I love him), but we don't know for sure yet what he's doing.

3) Kerry Wood has a 30 Save season going. He's going to want some decent money this offseason, including continuing to pitch from the 9th inning. He'll either sign with a team in need of a Closer or he'll be retained by the Cubbies.

lil'papi
09-21-2008, 08:48 AM
who would you guys like to see added to the bullpen im looking at kerry wood is as an 8th guy so your pen would look like

RhP: MDC Wood Materson papelbon
LHP:Okijima lopez
longman:pauley


I think that would be a lights out pen


were looking at staters such as burnett C.C and sheets personally i wouldnt go after sheets.

Our top 3 is back Beckett Lester Dice K are back you dont need a marquee guy. C.C would be nice to have but its not a need. I would love to see derck lowe back here to the 4th spot then sign a guy like freddy garcia or kyle loshe.


so heres what ur roatation

beckett
lester
dice K
lowe
garcia

Poor Knarf, he is going to type his fingers off here. :D

What about Buchholz, Bowden or Bard? Nevermind Wake. Derek Lowe has as much chance of getting me pregnant as coming back to Boston.

I'd prefer Paul Byrd over Garcia.

If we lose Tek, a prospect pitcher, to get another catcher, then I'm for looking deeper into a Burnett or Sheets or load up and get CC.

I just feel Tek comes back. All we have to do is show him film of 80% of his AB's his price gets reduced.:p Borass can't argue value here either. Guy drops more called third strikes than anyone ever. He leads the league in throws to first after a K.:o

I am beginning to think some in the FO are saying let him go. Hence the Salty-Teagarden-Ramirez-Laird rumors. I'm starting the later two.....:p

Why sign Garcia when we get get Wake at 4mil. He's pitched 12 games in two years. :eyebrow: Too iffy....

futureheisman
09-21-2008, 12:30 PM
whatever papi i have been listening to people who have been saying we need to trade for a yound 3rd base prospect. Prince feilder is on the market. What about trading anderon/bowden for Feilder and then moving youk to 3rd and trading mike lowell for bullepn help. then this would your lineup


CF:Ellsbury
2B:periodia
DH:Papi
1b:Feilder
3rd:Youk
LF:Bay
RF:drew
SS: lowrie
C:Tec-as of right now



I was reading that dontrelle Wills for julio lugo swap could happen this offseason. willis has looked like @#$% this year but could be a project and if the sox could ever get him straightened out what a rotaion you would have.



Another guy for the bullpen is on the market he has an ERA up around 5.4 but he has a high number of strikeouts. Taking a shot on him i would think about doing.

The Intimidator
09-21-2008, 02:33 PM
^^^ :smoking:

lil'papi
09-22-2008, 08:25 AM
^^^ :d

lil'papi
09-22-2008, 08:33 AM
whatever papi i have been listening to people who have been saying we need to trade for a yound 3rd base prospect. Prince feilder is on the market. What about trading anderon/bowden for Feilder and then moving youk to 3rd and trading mike lowell for bullepn help. then this would your lineup


CF:Ellsbury
2B:periodia
DH:Papi
1b:Feilder
3rd:Youk
LF:Bay
RF:drew
SS: lowrie
C:Tec-as of right now



I was reading that dontrelle Wills for julio lugo swap could happen this offseason. willis has looked like @#$% this year but could be a project and if the sox could ever get him straightened out what a rotaion you would have.



Another guy for the bullpen is on the market he has an ERA up around 5.4 but he has a high number of strikeouts. Taking a shot on him i would think about doing.

Do you buy the Enquirer by chance?

Top 3b prospect? We have YOUKILIS-LOWELL and Lowrie. Why trade for one? Who said this anyway , who are you talking too?

You also like Lugo for Dontrelle Willis? Did the headline on the paper you read say aliens invaded the moon?

Please Lugo is still a MLB player . Dontrelle is a minor leaguer now. Lugo will be used next year, most likely, as a utility guy. Why would we try and straighten him out when we have Buchholz to straighten our first.

Prince, or Prince Fielder? The Enquirer said we would go after Prince.

RedSoxtober
09-22-2008, 08:38 AM
whatever papi i have been listening to people who have been saying we need to trade for a yound 3rd base prospect. Prince feilder is on the market. What about trading anderon/bowden for Feilder and then moving youk to 3rd and trading mike lowell for bullepn help. then this would your lineup


CF:Ellsbury
2B:periodia
DH:Papi
1b:Feilder
3rd:Youk
LF:Bay
RF:drew
SS: lowrie
C:Tec-as of right now



I was reading that dontrelle Wills for julio lugo swap could happen this offseason. willis has looked like @#$% this year but could be a project and if the sox could ever get him straightened out what a rotaion you would have.



Another guy for the bullpen is on the market he has an ERA up around 5.4 but he has a high number of strikeouts. Taking a shot on him i would think about doing.

Fielder? Yuck. Absolutely no interest here. Good 1B for the NL where you don't have the DH to add some power. I wouldn't want him anywhere near the Sox. He'd eat Pedroia for lunch. Literally.

No big fan of Willlis either. Big splash at the start and then never delivered. How much time did he spend in single A this year? He was seriously messed up.

Please, FH, give some links to the rumors you share. It helps all of use evaluate their credibility. You don't have to cite everything, but for the most part you don't cite anything. My fear is that you're running into a "sports blog" maintained by some average joe who's spouting off his unqualified insights. A more qualified source would have looked at the Sox' recent draft and international FA signing history and recognized the Sox have loaded up on talent on the left side of the IF, not to mention the possibilities of accelerating Anderson, using Bailey, etc with Youk moving back to 3B.

lil'papi
09-22-2008, 08:43 AM
There's that blanket again. Cold and wet, unforgiving.

Cecil Fielder has a better chance of playing for us. Prince was lucky his father didn't eat his young. I did read that in the Enquirer. :D

RedSoxtober
09-22-2008, 09:47 AM
There's that blanket again. Cold and wet, unforgiving.

Cecil Fielder has a better chance of playing for us. Prince was lucky his father didn't eat his young. I did read that in the Enquirer. :D

Cold and calulating perhaps. I really react against people who go to the extremes. I'll even argue against what I truly believe (when I can see the validity in other arguments) if only to get discussions back to reality.

And if you think that was a wet blanket, you'll love what I wrote in the playoff hopes thread (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6721268&postcount=14). :rolleyes:

ThreeIfBaerga
09-22-2008, 11:50 AM
Why the hate for Prince Fielder? Kids fat, yeah, but he's an extremely athletic guy who can't seem to keep the weight off. He wouldn't be the first guy in baseball to have a damn fine career like that (Puckett, Wells, Sabathia). He's not a DH stuck at 1b either, he can pick it over there. Adding his bat would go a LOOOOONG way towards replacing Manny.

That said, I like Lars too much to get excited about that, even though it would be a decent move.

The Intimidator
09-22-2008, 02:20 PM
Why the hate for Prince Fielder? Kids fat, yeah, but he's an extremely athletic guy who can't seem to keep the weight off. He wouldn't be the first guy in baseball to have a damn fine career like that (Puckett, Wells, Sabathia). He's not a DH stuck at 1b either, he can pick it over there. Adding his bat would go a LOOOOONG way towards replacing Manny.

That said, I like Lars too much to get excited about that, even though it would be a decent move.

Fielder has hit for a lower average, driven in fewer runs, and played worse defense than Youkilis has this year. In fact, Fielder has 15 errors at 1B this year, so I'm not sure what you mean by saying that he can "pick it". Pick the ball up off the dirt after he drops it, maybe. So, in other words, he provides absolutely no upgrade at 1B.

CanadianSoxFan
09-22-2008, 03:16 PM
lars is the future at 1b. the kid has way too much potential to trade away unless you're getting someone like pujols back. the way the front office values youth I wonder if they would even do that deal. The sox are setup very nicely to replace lowell when his contract expires with either youk or one of the many IF they have drafted recently. 3B and 1B are not a problem. In fact I think the entire infield is fine for years to come (either with the guys there now or the kids coming up). The only moves to be made are for a C and BP help. Maybe a stud starter if they are worried they won't be able to retain Beckett.

futureheisman
09-22-2008, 03:22 PM
Fielder? Yuck. Absolutely no interest here. Good 1B for the NL where you don't have the DH to add some power. I wouldn't want him anywhere near the Sox. He'd eat Pedroia for lunch. Literally.

No big fan of Willlis either. Big splash at the start and then never delivered. How much time did he spend in single A this year? He was seriously messed up.

Please, FH, give some links to the rumors you share. It helps all of use evaluate their credibility. You don't have to cite everything, but for the most part you don't cite anything. My fear is that you're running into a "sports blog" maintained by some average joe who's spouting off his unqualified insights. A more qualified source would have looked at the Sox' recent draft and international FA signing history and recognized the Sox have loaded up on talent on the left side of the IF, not to mention the possibilities of accelerating Anderson, using Bailey, etc with Youk moving back to 3B.


mlbtraderumors.com pretty good source there buddy

RedSoxtober
09-22-2008, 03:27 PM
Why the hate for Prince Fielder? Kids fat, yeah, but he's an extremely athletic guy who can't seem to keep the weight off. He wouldn't be the first guy in baseball to have a damn fine career like that (Puckett, Wells, Sabathia). He's not a DH stuck at 1b either, he can pick it over there. Adding his bat would go a LOOOOONG way towards replacing Manny.

That said, I like Lars too much to get excited about that, even though it would be a decent move.

Why is it that not liking him is now 'hate'? I am not that impressed with him overall but that's a long, long way from hating on him.

His weight is a problem and it likely only gets worse. The guy sports a nice .370 lifetime OBP, getting on base 763 times in 2027PA, but he's scored only 276 runs and a large chunk of those (113) on his own HR. If he doesn't knock it out he doesn't get around the bases.

I also don't like to see the high k-rate (22%) from a heart-of-the-order hitter. That leaves him too likely to strikeout when you need him to produce.

RedSoxtober
09-22-2008, 03:30 PM
mlbtraderumors.com pretty good source there buddy

I appreciate it, pal. When you learn to quote sources and include links to them everyone else will, too. Grammar and punctuation would be nice, too, but that can wait until you graduate from HS.

futureheisman
09-22-2008, 04:29 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/09/dontrelle-for-l.html There is the link if you guys would like to read the story and what is so wrong with feilder idea???????????????

The Intimidator
09-22-2008, 06:45 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/09/dontrelle-for-l.html There is the link if you guys would like to read the story and what is so wrong with feilder idea???????????????

Read my previous post for a reason why Fielder would not be worth trading for, especially if Milwaukee wants top prospects for him, which they will. I believe it was at 2:20 p.m.

futureheisman
09-22-2008, 07:08 PM
How about taking a chance on aron heilman

Osiagledknarf
09-23-2008, 01:58 AM
How about taking a chance on aron heilman

Holy ****! Have you ever seen Aaron Heilman pitch? He's an absolute train wreck! Where in God's name do you get these ideas from?!?!?!

DaaBoTownSox
09-23-2008, 02:45 AM
http://soxprospects.com/

^^ Good site for info on the Sox prospects, along when they might be expected to debut in the MLB.

Just posting for anyone who may not have heard of the site.

Osiagledknarf
09-23-2008, 03:29 AM
who would you guys like to see added to the bullpen im looking at kerry wood is as an 8th guy so your pen would look like

RhP: MDC Wood Materson papelbon
LHP:Okijima lopez
longman: pauley

I think that would be a lights out pen

were looking at staters such as burnett C.C and sheets personally i wouldnt go after sheets.

Our top 3 is back Beckett Lester Dice K are back you dont need a marquee guy. C.C would be nice to have but its not a need. I would love to see derck lowe back here to the 4th spot then sign a guy like freddy garcia or kyle loshe.

so heres what ur roatation

beckett
lester
dice K
lowe
garcia


I guess I agree that we don't need Sabathia. There is a ton of nonsense in there too though.

Lowe is done in Boston. He'd be an awfully expensive number 4 anyway. So scratch that.

Where did this whole Kerry Wood idea even come from? Because he's having an okay year in 2008? Seriously? His numbers look okay, but he's one of those guys who comes in, pitches himself into trouble, and then sometimes gets out of it. Also, there is the SLIGHT issue of his injury riddled past. In all of 2006 and 2007, Wood pitched a total of 44 innings. How many of you are surprised that he's put something reasonable together in his contract year? How many of you think he's probably still an injury timebomb? This is a horrible idea.

As for Garcia, if you can get him on a Colon-type deal, then sure...go for it...but you have to understand that you're not signing him as your number 4 pitcher. It would be a rehab and development centered contract, and he'd probably start in extended spring training, then make a slow climb through the minors, and maybe make you a handful+ of starts...which is why the money would have to be cheap. Otherwise, let him go somewhere else.

Kyle Lohse actually had a decent year, no denying that. I'm not sure that in one year he's made a complete turn around from his career average (4.67 ERA, .490 WPCT). Again, I guess if you can sign him to like a one year deal for reasonable money, then sure...why not? However, odds are that he's going to try and cash in on his contract year performance. I'm sure he'll ask for 4 years at something like $10 million per, which we should absolutely laugh at and move right on to the next option. This idea is very, very unlikely.

Also...please note:

O-K-A-J-I-M-A, not Okijima
M-A-S-T-E-R-S-O-N, not Materson
D-E-R-E-K (Lowe), not Derck
S-T-A-R-T-E-R-S, not Staters
L-O-H-S-E, not Loshe
R-O-T-A-T-I-O-N, not Roatation
Delcarmen is one word, so the abbreviation of MDC doesn't really logically follow.



Poor Knarf, he is going to type his fingers off here. :D


I've been really busy lately, so I really didn't have the energy or time to lay into it like I would have probably wanted, haha. It's sweet you thought of me though, haha.



whatever papi i have been listening to people who have been saying we need to trade for a yound 3rd base prospect. Prince feilder is on the market. What about trading anderon/bowden for Feilder and then moving youk to 3rd and trading mike lowell for bullepn help. then this would your lineup

CF:Ellsbury
2B:periodia
DH:Papi
1b:Feilder
3rd:Youk
LF:Bay
RF:drew
SS: lowrie
C:Tec-as of right now

I was reading that dontrelle Wills for julio lugo swap could happen this offseason. willis has looked like @#$% this year but could be a project and if the sox could ever get him straightened out what a rotaion you would have.

Another guy for the bullpen is on the market he has an ERA up around 5.4 but he has a high number of strikeouts. Taking a shot on him i would think about doing.


Who are the savants to whom you have been listening? If they're so hot to trade for 3B prospects to replace Lowell, why are they also advocating moving Youkilis to that same position? The only Prince Fielder rumor I saw involved the Giants, in which it also stated that the Brewers wanted alot more than just Matt Cain in exchange for Fielder. So while I don't think Fielder would be a bad offensive addition...to any team...that trade would be WAY too expensive.

Anderson is a great prospect, and there's absolutely no reason to trade him (did I see you say AND Bowden?!?!?!) for anyone other than like, Pujols or Jesus...who CAN hit a curveball (AWESOME Major League reference for you there). You are WAY under-valuing both Anderson and Bowden.

However, I don't deny the fact that with Lowell's mounting injury problems, the Red Sox may have to figure out what to do with 1B and 3B, and I do think moving Youkilis to 3B may be part of that solution. Fielder is surprisingly athletic, but there's no way I would trade for him to have him be the first basemen. For me, he'd be a David Ortiz replacement only, and I am sure he could thrive in that role. But we still have Ortiz, and for a while.

If Lowell can't play or is relegated to a lesser role, then you can simply explore the free agent market for first or third basemen, and avoid having to give up prospects all together while still addressing the problem. That's a great option that still allows for Anderson to make contributions to the team in a year or two.

The point is...Prince Fielder would be too expensive, and there are plenty of other...probably better...options available. For me, Fielder is an unnecessary move considering those other options for 1B and/or 3B and the fact that we already have a DH. Trading for Fielder would make no sense at all.

As for trading Mike Lowell (an idea I have even thrown out there at times), it's highly unlikely now that his injury problems seem to be serious. What would you be willing to give up for an injured third basemen who will be 35 at the beginning of next season? Nothing that would help the other team, that's for sure. So this option is probably off the table now.

As for Dontrelle Willis...come on, really? You would trade for Willis to put him in the bullpen? $10 million dollars a year to have him give you probably the same thing Timlin could give you? Seriously? That's an awfully expensive "shot" to take. You have to realize that's absurd, right? For that money, I'd rather keep Lugo and have him be some sort of super Utility player. There would be alot more value in that than having Willis pitch in Portland with a 4.50 ERA. Silly idea with very little merit in the first place.

Also, please note:

Y-O-U-N-G, not Yound
F-I-E-L-D-E-R, not Feilder
A-N-D-E-R-S-O-N, not Anderon
B-U-L-L-P-E-N, not Bullepn
P-E-D-R-O-I-A, not Periodia
T-E-K...as in Varitek, not Tec or Varitec




Prince, or Prince Fielder? The Enquirer said we would go after Prince.


I don't know...Dave Chappelle and Charlie Murphy both have said that "Prince can ball." That seems to me to be about as credible a source as mlbtraderumors.



mlbtraderumors.com pretty good source there buddy


That's a mediocre source, at best. There is a TON of conjecture and wishful thinking on there...which is exactly what you seem to be keying in on. What's with the whole "there buddy" crap? Don't be arrogant when you have nothing to be arrogant about.



http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/09/dontrelle-for-l.html There is the link if you guys would like to read the story and what is so wrong with feilder idea???????????????


See above.

ThreeIfBaerga
09-23-2008, 11:21 AM
Why is it that not liking him is now 'hate'? I am not that impressed with him overall but that's a long, long way from hating on him.


It's just an expression, that's all I meant by it, is that people are against getting one of the most impressive young power hitters in baseball.



His weight is a problem and it likely only gets worse. The guy sports a nice .370 lifetime OBP, getting on base 763 times in 2027PA, but he's scored only 276 runs and a large chunk of those (113) on his own HR. If he doesn't knock it out he doesn't get around the bases.


Fair enough, but he scored 109 runs last year while he had a good power hitter behind him (Braun), and will likely finish ~90 RS this year with Corey Hart's .306 OBP batting behind him, so it's not like he's clogging up the bases, the guys behind him just aren't driving him in consistently. All things even, I gotta think he'd score just as much as Ortiz in this lineup.



I also don't like to see the high k-rate (22%) from a heart-of-the-order hitter. That leaves him too likely to strikeout when you need him to produce.


FWIW, Manny Ramirez' career K-rate is 22%. 22% isn't that bad a number for a premier power hitter.


EDIT:
And yes, MLBTradeRumors.com is a terrible awful site. So many times they've just made things up.

Edit #2:

I agree with Osiagledknarf about the grammar thing. How hard is it to type coherently so that people can read, understand and respond easily? C'mon guys, it's not that tough.

RedSoxtober
09-23-2008, 11:41 AM
That's a mediocre source, at best. There is a TON of conjecture and wishful thinking on there...which is exactly what you seem to be keying in on. What's with the whole "there buddy" crap? Don't be arrogant when you have nothing to be arrogant about.

To wit, if you take (waste) the time to follow the mlbtr trackback you'll find that the "rumor that something is in the works for this winter" is purely the speculation of one of the Detroit beat writers. He sets it up like this:

"Justin Verlander, Jeremy Bonderman, Nate Robertson and Dontrelle Willis combined to win 56 games in 2006 -- and 20 this season. If they all are on next year's Opening Day roster, it's likely some will produce one of the hardest-to-predict phenomena in baseball: the bounce-back season."

Then goes on to explain how difficult this is:

"Research by Dave Smith of Retrosheet.org revealed that such "bounce-back" years have occurred 65 times since the 2000-01 cycle (including this season)."

And finally the RS connection:

"The Tigers could trade one of those three before Opening Day, but Dombrowski might have to swap one unfavorable contract for another.

Consider Willis' deal: He is due $22 million over the next two seasons. Dombrowski could shop around to see if another general manager is looking to move someone with a similar salary.

One possibility: Boston shortstop Julio Lugo, who is batting .268 this year and is currently on the disabled list with a strained left quadriceps.

Lugo, like Willis, is signed through 2010. He is due a guaranteed $18 million during that time, which is not an identical match for Willis' salary but at least in the same range."

So, futureheisman, maybe now we can settle the whole issue of posting references. You (poorly) related mlbtr which had distilled a beat writers musings for headlines, as they often do. The original article was just a list of guys who have sucked this year with some personal ideas about how they might be dealt with. There is no justification provided for the Sox to have interest other than the quote from Jim Duquette that basically runs along the lines of "they both suck so it's an even swap of bad contracts." The implication is that the Sox would be interested because of their reclamation work with guys like Colon and Runelvys, but what is completely overlooked is that the reclamation projects came in for around $1M.


It's just an expression, that's all I meant by it, is that people are against getting one of the most impressive young power hitters in baseball.
I understand the phrase but I don't think saying that I'm not impressed is hating on him at all. My past comments about Manny or J.DL. Drew (sorry for the slip the DL kinda comes out whenever I think of Drew) could be.

MagicBucsSox
09-23-2008, 12:25 PM
I wish we could get prince fielder to bat 4th taking manny spot. I dont think the tankees r gon get CC cause they're gon overpay for that new Japanese pitcher we're suppose to get

futureheisman
09-23-2008, 03:39 PM
Aron heiman would be signed for cheap.

Osiagledknarf
09-23-2008, 04:04 PM
I wish we could get prince fielder to bat 4th taking manny spot. I dont think the tankees r gon get CC cause they're gon overpay for that new Japanese pitcher we're suppose to get


What? Dude, we already have a resident grammar/spelling challenged contributor in futureheisman...we really don't have room for another. Please pick it up! Haha.



Aron heiman would be signed for cheap.


Why, oh why, are you so utterly incapable of even once typing coherently?

A-A-R-O-N
H-E-I-L-M-A-N

Do you do it on purpose? Honestly, if you have dyslexia or something then I'm sorry for calling you out like that, because that would be unfair. But if not...it's really annoying.

Aside from that, Aaron Heilman is a terrible pitcher. I'm all for cheap signings, but they have to have some promise or upside to them. Heilman does not. He's definitely not the kind of guy you put in there in the 7th or 8th inning, which is exactly the kind of bullpen help the Red Sox should be looking for. He doesn't fit. Cheap or not, he wouldn't make the Red Sox any better, and in fact...he'd more than likely be a liability to the team's success.

Are you going to address anything I said in the last post? Or are you going to just skip over it? I'd really love to hear some defense of your arguments. At the very least, I'd like some clarification on this spelling issue, haha.

MagicBucsSox
09-23-2008, 04:36 PM
hey imma throw out done names tell me what u guys think:
Oliver perez
juan rincon
lackey
jose reyes(fa 2010)
pedro but as reliever
john garland
Ceasar izutris
blalock
texeria
Milton Bradley as dh

what u thuink of these guys individually in 09 for us my fellow nation members?

futureheisman
09-23-2008, 05:34 PM
bradley for DH-oritz is blocking his spot?? Has bradley ever played first
Perdo-NO WAY if as a reliever
Oliver Perez- Good starter could be a #4 guy for us
Lackey-with his troubles at fenway park i wouldnt do it
blalock-the position is blocked by lowell but if a trade were to happen i wouldnt mind seeing him. Great glove and has some pop
jun rincon-was DFA be a low risk signing
textiera-is he already wearing pinstripes???
john garland-wouldnt mind see him here as a #4 or 5 starter
ceasar izutris-would be good as a bench guy
reyes-be AWESOME in a couple years him and ellsbury at the top of our lineup would be fun to watch

Osiagledknarf
09-23-2008, 05:40 PM
hey imma throw out done names tell me what u guys think:
Oliver perez
juan rincon
lackey
jose reyes(fa 2010)
pedro but as reliever
john garland
Ceasar izutris
blalock
texeria
Milton Bradley as dh

what u thuink of these guys individually in 09 for us my fellow nation members?


bradley for DH-oritz is blocking his spot?? Has bradley ever played first
Perdo-NO WAY if as a reliever
Oliver Perez- Good starter could be a #4 guy for us
Lackey-with his troubles at fenway park i wouldnt do it
blalock-the position is blocked by lowell but if a trade were to happen i wouldnt mind seeing him. Great glove and has some pop
jun rincon-was DFA be a low risk signing
textiera-is he already wearing pinstripes???
john garland-wouldnt mind see him here as a #4 or 5 starter
ceasar izutris-would be good as a bench guy
reyes-be AWESOME in a couple years him and ellsbury at the top of our lineup would be fun to watch


Wow. It's like a meeting of mega minds. Outstanding. Almost entirely filled with horrible ideas. Plus we're sticking with the copious spelling errors theme, awesome.

futureheisman
09-23-2008, 05:49 PM
so you actully agree with me something

Osiagledknarf
09-23-2008, 05:54 PM
No, that was sarcasm. Almost all of those ideas are crap or not even available. Good point about Lackey though, I'd give you that. You're still 0 for 350 on spelling and grammar.

MagicBucsSox
09-23-2008, 06:00 PM
but ya heisman I dont kno word is this Lowell hip injury is bad, I want the guy gone anyway and youkilis can simply go back to 3rd

ThreeIfBaerga
09-23-2008, 10:58 PM
I don't think Darvish is coming over this off-season, considering how young he is. His team still has him under control for another 3 or 4 years, so I don't think we'll see him anytime soon. Would I like to bring him in? Yeah, I think the Matsuzaka move has worked out, all things considered he's performed pretty well, especially this year. His WHIP and BB-rate doesn't bode well for future success, but it's worked out well this year.

I think the Sox have enough pitching that they can wait and make a move for the exact kind of pitcher you want, another Matsuzaka/Beckett type who won't cost you a giant long term deal and is still young enough that he's got upside. They only come around once in a blue moon, but the Sox have a history of making the moves needed to have that guy, starting with Clemens, then the move for Petey, then Beckett. They've got a few guys in the minors who can be that guy, but they've got the flexibility they need so they won't have their backs against the wall.

lil'papi
09-24-2008, 08:52 AM
Sigh...really?

Again, do either of you wish to actually address or support any of the baseball issues that you've brought up, and my response to them...or do you just want to keep going with childish, uninspired insults?

And futureheisman, I'm still waiting on your reasons why I know nothing about baseball.

Man you're getting toasted by the Enquirer boys. I knew you'd like an entrance into this thread. Welcome to the Twi-Light Zone.
Where names are written in tongue and words are written in streetlingo.

Twi_light zone.....or Fringe......

Pedro coming back to Boston would be great. He'd make a serious reliever. At that point we can trade Papelbon before he gets big money. Trade him for Dontrelle. ;)

RedSoxtober
09-24-2008, 09:15 AM
hey imma throw out done names tell me what u guys think:

...

what u thuink of these guys individually in 09 for us my fellow nation members?

Oliver perez
Pretty long track record as a mediocre pitcher. He might be turning the corner at age 27 but overall his numbers are not that impressive. Likely to be overpaid by someone desperate for a #2-3

juan rincon
Two straight seasons with a 5+ era and 1.50+ whip suggests that his luck has run out. A funky delivery only gets you success for a while. Not worth what he'll get on the market.

lackey
Irrelevant. The Angels have a $9M option on him for 2009.

jose reyes(fa 2010)
For some reason I've never been a huge fan of Reyes. Good batting eye; doesn't k very often but has a surprisingly low OBP for that kind of discipline. He'd make things very interesting with Jacoby at the top of the order but he's not only signed through 2010 but the Mets also have an $11M option on him for 2011. If he continues at his current pace and progression that will be a bargain. Besides the Mets are one of the big market teams that could afford to keep the young star. Very, very unlikely.

pedro but as reliever
IMO wouldn't work. His shoulder would not stand up to it and his ego would not deign to serve out of the pen. He believes that he's a starter, and a good one, when he hits the market. I'd make a run at a cheap contract to finish in BOS but that's about it.

john garland
Averaging about 14 wins/yr and could be slightly better with a solid club. ERA and whip generally argue for him to get a good contract but this year's whip (1.71) and declines in k/9 and k/bb suggest that he's quickly declining. Most likely to be far overpaid considering the Sox could have similar numbers from Buchholz/Bowden/Masterson/etc for a fraction of the price.

Ceasar izutris
.258/.316/.616? Horrible line and pretty obvious why he's only backed into his first starting role in three years.

blalock
Depending on how Drew's herniated disk situation plays out he could be a decent option as a 4th OFer. He's been damaged goods for 2 seasons so I'd be worried about any more significant action (and obviously none if Drew returns).

texeria
Just thankful that FA season is still a couple months away. Knowing Boras there will be no rush to a contract for Tex, either. That means plenty of time to see whether or not Lowell's labrum injury can be corrected. If not then I'd be happy to sink money into Tex but I suspect that the Yankee turnstile at 1B means they've been biding time to buy him. More likely (IMO) that he ends up in the Bronx.

Milton Bradley as dh
Don't we have a DH for three more years (two guaranteed, one option)? :confused:

Osiagledknarf
09-24-2008, 12:30 PM
Man you're getting toasted by the Enquirer boys. I knew you'd like an entrance into this thread. Welcome to the Twi-Light Zone.
Where names are written in tongue and words are written in streetlingo.

Twi_light zone.....or Fringe......

Pedro coming back to Boston would be great. He'd make a serious reliever. At that point we can trade Papelbon before he gets big money. Trade him for Dontrelle. ;)


Eh. I think I was unfairly grouped with them in the message deletion process, haha. I'm sure the All Seeing Eye has his reasons, but in my defense...I did not call names, repeatedly begged to have them address the baseball issues at hand, and when the personal attacks started all I did was address them...without retaliating. I think I responded the same way any reasonable person would, and I wasn't fighting. Oh well...moving right along.

I think Pedro would like to come back to Boston, and RedSoxtober mentioned a 1 year gig to finish out there. Eh...I understand the sentiment, but would definitely pass. I've seen him make a couple good starts at Shea over the last couple of years, but that dreaded pitch countdown to destruction seems to keep getting shorter and shorter, and I'm not sure how much he could really contribute to the Red Sox success at this point.

Hermie13
09-24-2008, 12:46 PM
our biggest need is to get a catcher. i am for keeping varitek even if we have to over pay. we just need someone who can split time with him. let a young catcher come in and catch the veterans and let varitek catch the younger guys and teach them how to pitch. pitching is not as big a need as some people keep staying. with lester, beckett, and dice-k we have a solid one through three. i beleive we can resign byrd and let the five spot revolve with younger guys ie buchholz, bowden, or even zink.

Any chance you guys would want Kelly Shoppach back? Tribe could use a guy like Masterson and Shoppach is expendable......

Just a thought though....

Osiagledknarf
09-24-2008, 12:49 PM
Haha...unfortunately, Masterson isn't expendable. Thanks, but no thanks.

Hermie13
09-24-2008, 12:51 PM
hmm, a 5th bullpen arm isn't expendable.....fair enough....

ThreeIfBaerga
09-24-2008, 12:56 PM
hmm, a 5th bullpen arm isn't expendable.....fair enough....

Not only is Masterson likely the 3rd option out of the pen (behind Okajima and Papelbon) but he's likely to get burn as a starter down the line, probably in 2010.

I do like Shoppach and would love to bring him back to Boston, but not for Masterson. If they're giving up Masterson I'd want someone younger than 28.

Osiagledknarf
09-24-2008, 12:58 PM
He's a young, high upside pitcher under contractual control for 5 more years. He's playing a strong, stabilizing role in the Red Sox bullpen. He's been taking the ball in increasingly important situations, and succeeding. He's not simply the 5th arm in the bullpen, he's an important piece of the Red Sox puzzle.

You obviously want him for some reason, right?

I wasn't saying it was a stupid offer, not by any means. Shoppach's had a good year, I just value young versatile pitching pretty heavily, and it's not like the Red Sox have any dearth of catching prospects. It just wouldn't make sense for us, in my opinion.

Hermie13
09-24-2008, 01:09 PM
Shoppach is under contractual contract for 3 more years so not like Masterson is going to be around for that much longer. I know Masteron has flexibility as he can be a starter or reliever...but seems with your abundance of options in the rotation that the pen is a better spot for him at this time. Just don't see how a reliever even with the upside of Masterson is worth more than Shoppach (yeah I realize that's not exactly what you're saying....just that Masterson is valuable to the Sox).

I guess I also feel that Varitek is nearing the end....don't think there's much left in the tank. Will he take a pay cut and short term deal to come back? maybe....but think outside options would make sense for the Sox as an organization going forward....

But then again bringing him back could be for the best, not 100% familar with your catching prospects....

ThreeIfBaerga
09-24-2008, 01:16 PM
Shoppach is under contractual contract for 3 more years so not like Masterson is going to be around for that much longer.

Umm. Masterson is going to be under contract for another 5 years, and Shoppach is just starting to get expensive.

Osiagledknarf
09-24-2008, 01:29 PM
As for our catching prospects, we've got guys that can probably carry the load as a backup catcher (Brown, Kottaras, Cash if we bring him back), giving us time to figure out a better plan A for when Varitek does leave (I think most of us have a pretty good feeling that he's likely to be back though).

Our bullpen has been a big issue for us this year, there's been some serious rough spots. Masterson has helped turn that around. He's been a very important player for the Red Sox.

Relievers are very important, and catcher is not a position that the Red Sox absolutely need tons of power and production from. They can get buy with Varitek or comparable players, and have done so with great success. As for Shoppach's 3 years being left on the contract to Masterson's 5...2 years is a long time, especially to have a dominant young player like Masterson. Additionally, Masterson won't hit arbitration for a couple more years...and Shoppach should be getting there much sooner. Young pitchers are pretty valuable commodity.

I'm sure there are some people who would make that trade, all I'm saying is...I definitely wouldn't.

Hermie13
09-24-2008, 01:35 PM
Shoppach is arbitration eligible this year....but probably will only get $1.5-2M since this is his first year of starting and performing well. Not that pricy. He won't get more than $6-7M even when he hits his last year in 2011.

2 years is a long time....but you never know how a young pitcher will develop. Could blow out his arm or could turn out to be 'beginner's luck' (not saying it's luck, but being unkown of sorts to hitters makes him very tough now, he may not adjust as well as they do). Not saying either will happen with Masterson (obviously I wouldn't want him if I thought it was the 'most' likely case)....but still could happen. We're talking about something that'll happen in the 2012 season (Shoppach being a free agent/gone that is).....hard enough for us (let alone experts) to predict how players will develop by then.....

There's a risk involved with every trade. Figured Masterson would be a reasonable enough gamble for you guys to get Shoppach (but appears I was mistaken). Any chance you guys would go after any catcher this winter then or no? Like one of the Texas guys.....or bring back Bard after he gets non-tendered? ;) lol, j/k


ha, plus the World is supposively going to end in 2012 so you won't get to keep Masterson for the full 5 years anyways ;)

futureheisman
09-24-2008, 03:52 PM
horrible deal for the sox in that coco trade you could of had our catcher next year. What bullpen guys do you think we should go after

Hermie13
09-24-2008, 03:58 PM
horrible deal for the sox in that coco trade you could of had our catcher next year. What bullepn guys do you think we should go after

Not the best of deals for either club. I SOOOO wanted Pedroia at the time (ranked your #3 prospect I believe) instead of Marte (ranked as your #1 prospect at the time).....Tribe definately made the wrong choice there....


Basically it's turned out to be Shoppach for Crisp.....Crisp was a need for you guys at the time....both are currently backups of sorts on there teams.....

futureheisman
09-24-2008, 05:32 PM
i thought that shoppach was a starter there

76YazwSideburns
09-24-2008, 05:38 PM
horrible deal for the sox in that coco trade you could of had our catcher next year. What bullepn guys do you think we should go after

Well, we did need a center fielder and all. And that's a pretty important position.

futureheisman
09-24-2008, 06:59 PM
Well, we did need a center fielder and all. And that's a pretty important position.

youre right everyone thought at the time that he was going to be the next Johnny Damon. He has been a very solid guy for us in the outfeild and has provided speed on the basepaths.


What do you guys think of these bullpen guys

Jeremy Affeldt (30)-would be a good 7th inning guy along with MDC
Luis Ayala (31)-bad numbers for the nationals/mets.
Joe Beimel (32)-very very good numbers worth a strong look
Joe Borowski (38)-nothing left in the tank
Doug Brocail (42)-wouldnt be a hoorible option i think ill pass
Shawn Chacon (31)-high ERA voilent he cant stay far away from here
Juan Cruz (30)-Bad ERA in the american league
Alan Embree (39) - He was DFA a few years ago. very little chance he comes back here
Scott Eyre (37)- probably going to return to philly
Kyle Farnsworth (33)- Headcase struggles on the big stage and very wild. No thanks
Casey Fossum (31)-NO WAY
Keith Foulke (35)-:rolleyes:
Tom Gordon (41) - old and has been becoming more and more ineffective No Way
LaTroy Hawkins (36)- had a 37.1 inning scoreless streak in houston he is worth a shot
Mark Hendrickson (35)-Pitches horribly in the AL
Matt Herges (39)- Old
Bob Howry (35)-hasnt been good Nope
Jon Lieber (39)-nope
Jason Johnson (35)--enough said
Damaso Marte (34) -Not for the money he is looking for
Trever Miller (36) - would be a good guy for cheap
Guillermo Mota (35)-enough said
Will Ohman (31)-been talked about a lot get lewfties out thats about it
Darren Oliver (38)-been effective for the angels could be a look for a longman/spot starter
Chan Ho Park (36)-:badidea:
Horacio Ramirez (29)-has struggled and is a long man no way
Al Reyes (38)-Nope
Dennys Reyes (32)-worth a look
Arthur Rhodes (39)-be a good option
Juan Rincon (30)-was DFA this past season and looked like @#$# has use steroids in the past no thanks.
Glendon Rusch (34)-good longman
Rudy Seanez (40)-been there done that
Brian Shouse (40)-:badidea:
Russ Springer (40)-Nope
Mike Timlin (43)-goodbye
Ron Villone (39)-has been a good journeyman throughout the years
David Weathers (39)-
Kip Wells (32)-He may be able to pitch well for lowell?????
Matt Wise (33)-ineffective
Jamey Wright (34)-Nope

Osiagledknarf
09-25-2008, 01:48 AM
i thought that shoppach was a starter there


Well, we did need a center fielder and all. And that's a pretty important position.

I don't really think it ended up being that terrible of a trade. Marte didn't really pan out the way people had expected, Guillermo Mota was a juice head and nothing special, and Shoppach wasn't likely to see much playing time here anyway. In exchange we got David Riske, who we soon thereafter flipped for Javier Lopez (which has worked out pretty well), Josh Bard (who isn't really anything special, but at least we got Mirabelli back for him*), and Coco Crisp...who's been an absolutely splendid 4th Outfielder. All in all, it was...at worst...a roundly even trade. Not too bad.

*I'm skipping right over the fact that we got Mirabelli back by also giving up Cla Meredith...lame, but it's a different trade...so the argument still stands, haha.

Hermie13
09-25-2008, 09:07 AM
i thought that shoppach was a starter there

He is only because Victor Martinez was hurt for most of the year. He's the backup when he's healthy....which is why I think Shopppach will get traded this winter. He's too good to just be a backup.



Don't forget the Tribe also got Randy Newsom in the coco deal. He's still at AA (with some AAA experience this year), but is turning out to be a very nice bullpen arm.

I'd call the trade pretty even as well.....if he can turn into a reliable setup guy though down the line I'd give the Indians the slight advantage.....but that's getting pretty nitpicky, lol

Tragedy
09-25-2008, 10:34 AM
He is only because Victor Martinez was hurt for most of the year. He's the backup when he's healthy....which is why I think Shopppach will get traded this winter. He's too good to just be a backup.
Well, Martinez is back, yet Shoppach is still playing. I'm willing to bet that Kelly takes the starting Catcher job (He's good both offensively and defensively), and they push Martinez to 1B, considering all he brings to the table is offense.

Hermie13
09-25-2008, 11:06 AM
Well, Martinez is back, yet Shoppach is still playing. I'm willing to bet that Kelly takes the starting Catcher job (He's good both offensively and defensively), and they push Martinez to 1B, considering all he brings to the table is offense.

Tribe doesn't want to put too much on Victor since he just came back. I don't think the Tribe will move Victor to 1B. He's an All-Star caliber catcher...but at 1B he'd just be average. Plus Garko is our best clutch hitter; I see him getting another shot at 1B. Victor is also better defensively than Shoppach....though not saying Shoppach is bad because he's above average as well. Victor has the better arm and blocks balls in the dirt better. He brings a LOT more to the table than just offense :rolleyes:

RedSoxtober
09-25-2008, 03:21 PM
Well, Martinez is back, yet Shoppach is still playing. I'm willing to bet that Kelly takes the starting Catcher job (He's good both offensively and defensively), and they push Martinez to 1B, considering all he brings to the table is offense.

Martinez has improved behind the plate. He was average when he broke but has posted rate2s of 107 and 112 last year and this year respectively.

Shoppach has gone in the opposite direction. He's declined noticeably the more playing time he's had: 122 in 40 games then 112 in 54 games and now 99 in 107 games (and counting).

Looks like you get max production with Shoppach backing Victor.

BigEric
09-25-2008, 05:51 PM
we need to sign ben sheets and get a prospect cathcer and/or prospect 3b.

I'm not sold on Ben Sheets. He is one of the most injury prone players in the MLB.

futureheisman
09-25-2008, 06:44 PM
^^^^^^^^

exactly right i wouldnt go after sheets

lil'papi
09-26-2008, 08:59 AM
Martinez has improved behind the plate. He was average when he broke but has posted rate2s of 107 and 112 last year and this year respectively.

Shoppach has gone in the opposite direction. He's declined noticeably the more playing time he's had: 122 in 40 games then 112 in 54 games and now 99 in 107 games (and counting).

Looks like you get max production with Shoppach backing Victor.


Shoppach at best would be stop gap.

Osiagledknarf
09-26-2008, 09:02 AM
I honestly think the Shoppach ship has sailed from Boston for the foreseeable future.

Hermie13
09-26-2008, 09:57 AM
I honestly think the Shoppach ship has sailed from Boston for the foreseeable future.

agreed....

RedSoxtober
09-26-2008, 10:35 AM
Shoppach at best would be stop gap.

I don't want him. I was only responding to Tragedy who was suggesting that the Tribe would go with Shoppach at C and Martinez at 1B because (a) Shoppach was better defensively -- he's not if playing FT and (b) Martinez is purely offensive.

lil'papi
09-26-2008, 04:30 PM
I don't want him. I was only responding to Tragedy who was suggesting that the Tribe would go with Shoppach at C and Martinez at 1B because (a) Shoppach was better defensively -- he's not if playing FT and (b) Martinez is purely offensive.

Yeah, figured that and was agreeing.;) He hit 21 hrs and .265 I'm of the ilk it was his career year , not some new up and comer.

ThreeIfBaerga
09-26-2008, 05:04 PM
Yeah, figured that and was agreeing.;) He hit 21 hrs and .265 I'm of the ilk it was his career year , not some new up and comer.

I wouldn't say he's having a career year, this is far and away the most AB's he's ever gotten in a MLB season, he's just making the most of his opportunity. I think he'd easily replicate these numbers, probably surpass them if he gets a starting gig somewhere, which I think he will this offseason.

futureheisman
09-26-2008, 05:13 PM
how about scot shields for our bullpen next year??? he has always rumored to be on the block

The Intimidator
09-26-2008, 06:47 PM
^^^ I'm not liking his 1.36 WHIP.

lil'papi
09-27-2008, 08:18 AM
I wouldn't say he's having a career year, this is far and away the most AB's he's ever gotten in a MLB season, he's just making the most of his opportunity. I think he'd easily replicate these numbers, probably surpass them if he gets a starting gig somewhere, which I think he will this offseason.

We shall see...

Career year means break out season to me. He just had his IMHO.

lil'papi
09-27-2008, 08:48 AM
Last night they said every rain out costs the team 2mil in lost revenue. Add up the gate for a full season. 164mil to spend. Payroll 138mil......
That's just gate. They can pay the staff out of the rest and whatever is made in outside revenues is pocket coin. Why do people worry about money here. They are literally printing it. 300mil a year in income. Well lets just say the lights at fenway don't use that kinda of juice.

The estimated revenue at 234mil in 2006. Then another 13% in 2007 and another 13% in 2008. Add up the numbers. 26% rise in revenues. (2yrs)
They are close to 300mil now in revenues from sponsers and outside enterprises of which isn't including in BB's sharing plans.
These guys are smart and super wealthy.

Point is we CAN afford big dollar guys. Also our new stars -Youk-Paps-Pedy-Ells- etc.....
Read below:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3064537

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26628148/

This is the threads theme who can we afford in 2009, well it looks like anyone they choose. ;)

futureheisman
09-27-2008, 12:23 PM
despite his whipe he is the best arm out there that isnt a closer. I would deal for him and sign one more guy that sort of a high risk high reward kind of guy like a joe beimel who has had a very good season for the dodgers and has been very effective but his splits are just about the same so your bullpen would look like:

RHP: Sheilds Materson MDC longman:Pauley
LHP:okjima lopez beimel
CL:Papelbon


The rotation has its top 3 Beckett Lester Dice K coming back. There is no need to pay 20 million a year for C.C or over pay for ben sheets Who i think is overrated in this market anyway. i love thought of getting burnett here. your 5th starter can be anyone. I wouldnt mind seeing a guy like randy wolf or gulp carl pavono come in here and take that job. another name that ive heard is john smoltz. I would bring him in on a minor league contract see if he has anyting left.

Osiagledknarf
09-28-2008, 03:07 AM
What exactly is it that you want to give up in order to get Scot Shields? I'm not against the idea of Shields in the Red Sox bullpen, but not via trade. His number still seem stable overall, and I'm not sure the cost would be appetizing.

As for Beimel, I think three lefties in the pen is a little heavy. Lopez is probably back and Okajima definitely will be back. What do you mean by "high risk, high reward"? As a rule, I would avoid ANYTHING that was high risk! What's the point? What you want to look for is "LOW risk, high reward".

If Wakefield retires, it changes the offseason landscape in terms of pitching. I'd still be opposed to Sabathia based on the years and dollars per that he is sure to ask for. Sheets would be a horrible idea. I hate the idea of Burnett...he is surely talented, but he's streaky and injuries can certainly be an issue with him. Also, he's sure to ask for a hefty salary. No thanks, bad idea. If Pavano were willing to take a Colon-type deal...then sure, go for it. Absolutely. That is, however, the only way I would even briefly consider Carl Pavano. As for Smoltz, I doubt the Braves won't pick up his option...so that's not likely to be an option. Even if it was, there's no need for that when the Red Sox have a lot of good young pitchers coming up.

Osiagledknarf
09-28-2008, 03:11 AM
Last night they said every rain out costs the team 2mil in lost revenue. Add up the gate for a full season. 164mil to spend. Payroll 138mil......
That's just gate. They can pay the staff out of the rest and whatever is made in outside revenues is pocket coin. Why do people worry about money here. They are literally printing it. 300mil a year in income. Well lets just say the lights at fenway don't use that kinda of juice.

The estimated revenue at 234mil in 2006. Then another 13% in 2007 and another 13% in 2008. Add up the numbers. 26% rise in revenues. (2yrs)
They are close to 300mil now in revenues from sponsers and outside enterprises of which isn't including in BB's sharing plans.
These guys are smart and super wealthy.

Point is we CAN afford big dollar guys. Also our new stars -Youk-Paps-Pedy-Ells- etc.....
Read below:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3064537

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26628148/

This is the threads theme who can we afford in 2009, well it looks like anyone they choose. ;)

I don't think anyone is arguing that the Sox aren't filthy rich. My big point was always that expenditure should be measured against past trends, likely developments, and overall need. I also don't like to spend large sums of money just because I can.

They are rich though, no doubt. And you're right, if they really set their minds to someone they want...they can certainly compete with anyone to get them. No doubt.

The Intimidator
09-28-2008, 03:14 AM
Right, no one is questioning the fact that we have money. We have proven that we don't necessarily have to open the wallet in order to win, though.

futureheisman
09-28-2008, 08:59 AM
[QUOTE=Osiagledknarf;6794330]What exactly is it that you want to give up in order to get Scot Shields? I'm not against the idea of Shields in the Red Sox bullpen, but not via trade. His number still seem stable overall, and I'm not sure the cost would be appetizing.

you would have to give up Manny declarmen and probably ryan khalish to get him in here. which a year ago it would take a B prospect to get him here b/c they didnt know who would pitch the 7th inning. now with Jose Arredondo out there they can now move sheilds. If K Rod leaves then I think the will go out and sign a guy like kerri wood.

The Intimidator
09-28-2008, 09:32 AM
you would have to give up Manny declarmen and probably ryan khalish to get him in here. which a year ago it would take a B prospect to get him here b/c they didnt know who would pitch the 7th inning. now with Jose Arredondo out there they can now move sheilds. If K Rod leaves then I think the will go out and sign a guy like kerri wood.

First of all, it's Kerry Wood, not Kerri Wood. :laugh: Second of all, why would you give away a guy like Kalish, who you could use in a bigger trade down the road, and Delcarmen for Scot Shields? Sure, Shields' body of work as a major league reliever is pretty impressive, but just take this season as an example of why the trade you proposed would be a steal for the Angels.

Shields: 6-4, 2.74 era, 4 saves in 9 opportunities, 1.36 whip.
Delcarmen: 1-2, 3.36 era, 2 saves in 5 opportunities, 1.12 whip.

I don't like Shields' 1.36 whip. Sure, the guy has a lower era than Delcarmen, but the bottom line is that he still puts more guys on than Manny does. Considering the fact that Delcarmen is younger than Shields, I call them equal in terms of value. Throwing in a guy like Kalish just tips the scales in the Angels favor.

I mean, I know that I made a habit of calling him DelGagne, but the fact is that Manny Delcarmen is a more than capable late-inning reliever who has been lights out as of late. Shields is a glorified middle-reliever who has sometimes succeeded in a late-inning role, IMO. In addition, it is unlikely that the Angels would part with a guy who they're comfortable with in their pen with the likelihood that K-Rod will leave them for more money elsewhere.

Osiagledknarf
09-29-2008, 01:43 AM
[QUOTE=Osiagledknarf;6794330]What exactly is it that you want to give up in order to get Scot Shields? I'm not against the idea of Shields in the Red Sox bullpen, but not via trade. His number still seem stable overall, and I'm not sure the cost would be appetizing.

you would have to give up Manny declarmen and probably ryan khalish to get him in here. which a year ago it would take a B prospect to get him here b/c they didnt know who would pitch the 7th inning. now with Jose Arredondo out there they can now move sheilds. If K Rod leaves then I think the will go out and sign a guy like kerri wood.

I think you are willing to give up entirely too much for Shields. Delcarmen is 7 years younger than Shields, and puts up strong numbers as well. His age suggests his best years are ahead of him, whereas Shields' age suggest his best years are behing him. Kalish is a strong prospect, but he's only at the A level. The Sox should watch develop much longer and see what he can do before shipping him off, and if they do decide to trade him...they should be packaging him in order to get alot more than Scot Shields.

Osiagledknarf
09-29-2008, 01:47 AM
First of all, it's Kerry Wood, not Kerri Wood. :laugh: Second of all, why would you give away a guy like Kalish, who you could use in a bigger trade down the road, and Delcarmen for Scot Shields? Sure, Shields' body of work as a major league reliever is pretty impressive, but just take this season as an example of why the trade you proposed would be a steal for the Angels.

Shields: 6-4, 2.74 era, 4 saves in 9 opportunities, 1.36 whip.
Delcarmen: 1-2, 3.36 era, 2 saves in 5 opportunities, 1.12 whip.

I don't like Shields' 1.36 whip. Sure, the guy has a lower era than Delcarmen, but the bottom line is that he still puts more guys on than Manny does. Considering the fact that Delcarmen is younger than Shields, I call them equal in terms of value. Throwing in a guy like Kalish just tips the scales in the Angels favor.

I mean, I know that I made a habit of calling him DelGagne, but the fact is that Manny Delcarmen is a more than capable late-inning reliever who has been lights out as of late. Shields is a glorified middle-reliever who has sometimes succeeded in a late-inning role, IMO. In addition, it is unlikely that the Angels would part with a guy who they're comfortable with in their pen with the likelihood that K-Rod will leave them for more money elsewhere.

I posted above, and then realized you said the same things as me (although I do think Shields is a legitimate 7th-8th inning guy). But, sorry for stealing your thoughts!

futureheisman
09-29-2008, 07:13 PM
Sheets is constantly hurt. I would nt even condiser signing him for the money he is looking for. It would be idiotic

futureheisman
09-30-2008, 06:18 PM
For our shortstop problems I was thinking why not move pedroia over to short and sign orlando hudson to play 2nd. Deal lowrie in a deal to get a young catcher or move him to 3rd. This would be the defense a lot better having 3 gold gloves on that infield. Also if you could find a way to deal lowell and sign hank blalock I think that would be a very good move as well. Make it the best defensive infeild in baseball.

Osiagledknarf
10-02-2008, 03:42 AM
Surprisingly, I don't really think any of the above mentioned ideas are in the realm of "terrible." Orlando Hudson is a great fielder, but I suspect he is also past his offensive prime and any contract you sign him to will watch him depreciate in value annually. So I wouldn't do that.

I'm not opposed to trading Lowrie if the right proposal comes along, but it would have to be substantial...and for me, a prospect Catcher would not qualify as such. So I wouldn't do that either.

Blalock is a decent fielder, but not a gold glover. He's not really panned out as well as many would have hoped offensively though, and I'm not sure he could be more than a role player for the Red Sox. I'm not interested in Hank Blalock.

As for trading Lowell...I used to entertain that idea alot as well, but I think now we can probably forget it. He's going to be getting some kind of surgery this offseason, and potentially a serious one. He'd be a very, very hard sell in a trade. He's going to be here next year. The best scenario is that he gets the surgery, rehabs well and quickly, and can play 3B fulltime or close to it. At the least, he comes back in some kind of backup 1B/3B role, and we need to find a new starting first or third baseman.

The Mets are talking about changing their "core" of players, I wonder what they're willing to give up? Haha.

RedSoxtober
10-02-2008, 08:25 AM
I haven't really paid attention to what the Mets were doing or planning but they could be another force this off season. Delgado, Pedro, Alou, and Hernandez all have mid+ size contracts coming off the books to the collective tune of $39M (net). I would not be at all surprised to learn that "changing core players" is code for "we're not re-signing most of our FAs".

Since they are not shy about throwing around big money for longterm deals and Minaya has had a proclivity for Latin players I would not be at all surprised to see him make a major play for Sabathia. The alure of running out Santana and Sabathia on consecutive days will be very strong and the retiring deals make that very possible.

They could also work pretty hard on Tex. Given that the Yankees have a question mark beside Posada's name they could win out there.

Most likely they would only sign one and then spend like a drunken sailor on relief pitching; maybe a huge deal for K-Rod? It would certainly fit the mold.

Osiagledknarf
10-02-2008, 08:36 AM
I think, though I'm not certain, that Sabathia is African American, and not Latin at all. Minaya does have a proclivity for going after Latin players though, that's definitely for sure.

RedSoxtober
10-02-2008, 09:12 AM
I thought he had Latin roots (in the same way I have Irish & French roots), not particularly impossible for a kid from Vallejo, CA.

futureheisman
10-02-2008, 05:40 PM
I thought blalock had an errorless streak a couple of years broken after 100+ games.

Osiagledknarf
10-03-2008, 03:22 AM
I thought he had Latin roots (in the same way I have Irish & French roots), not particularly impossible for a kid from Vallejo, CA.

Maybe...I'm pretty certain he identifies himself as African American though. I remember reading an article in which Sabathia spoke at some length about the troublesome nature of the shortage of African American ballplayers.

In fact, here it is:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2798719

lil'papi
10-03-2008, 09:27 AM
CC will add a Z to the end of his name , if there is a 25mil per year deal sitting in front of him. Sabathiaz.....

The Intimidator
10-03-2008, 10:42 AM
I posted above, and then realized you said the same things as me (although I do think Shields is a legitimate 7th-8th inning guy). But, sorry for stealing your thoughts!

Thought stealer! :mad:

:p

The Intimidator
10-03-2008, 10:44 AM
For our shortstop problems I was thinking why not move pedroia over to short and sign orlando hudson to play 2nd. Deal lowrie in a deal to get a young catcher or move him to 3rd. This would be the defense a lot better having 3 gold gloves on that infield. Also if you could find a way to deal lowell and sign hank blalock I think that would be a very good move as well. Make it the best defensive infeild in baseball.

By this logic, we would have a 5 or 6 man infield...

futureheisman
10-03-2008, 05:12 PM
why would have a 6 man infeild 1st youk 2nd o-dog 3rd-blalock SS-pedey

The Intimidator
10-03-2008, 06:52 PM
Well you were making it sound like we were keeping Lowell or Lowrie...regardless, they aren't moving Pedroia to shortstop. He was drafted as one and they converted him to 2B because they didn't think his arm was strong enough. Most importantly, if it aint broke, don't fix it. Pedrois is a potential Gold Glove 2B, and Lowrie, despite last game's error, is a Gold Glove caliber SS. Lowell isn't going to be trade bait either, especially if there are concerns about his health.

76YazwSideburns
10-03-2008, 09:02 PM
^^^ - Even if they were thinking of attempting to trade him, offseason surgery on his hip diminished his trade value substantially.

Osiagledknarf
10-04-2008, 03:54 AM
I would suggest that offseason hip surgery diminishes his trade value, or the likelihood of his being traded, much more than substantially. I think it would make it a virtual certainty that Lowell would be unable to be traded.

futureheisman
10-05-2008, 04:58 PM
no chance he will be traded

Adalbjorg
10-06-2008, 02:12 PM
Between Manny Ramirez ($13 million more salary than Bay), Jason Varitek ($9 million) Curt Schilling ($8 million), Mark Kotsay ($8 million), Paul Byrd ($7.5 million) and Julian Tavarez ($3.85 million) the Red Sox will have over $40 million coming off the books this year.

Using that money, and the prospects were currently have, what moves do you think the Red Sox should make this offseason to improve the team?

mooz
10-06-2008, 02:20 PM
Between Manny Ramirez ($13 million more salary than Bay), Jason Varitek ($9 million) Curt Schilling ($8 million), Mark Kotsay ($8 million), Paul Byrd ($7.5 million) and Julian Tavarez ($3.85 million) the Red Sox will have over $40 million coming off the books this year.

Using that money, and the prospects were currently have, what moves do you think the Red Sox should make this offseason to improve the team?

I don't think they need to use prospects. Just sign a solid utility IF if Cora leaves and sign a solid RP and SP. Doesn't need to be C.C. or Ben Sheets or Burnett if he opts out...just sign a solid Paul Byrd 5th Starter type.

They already have 4 OF's, 4 Solid SP's, a solid bullpen, closer, productive IF at every position with Lowrie in and a power-hitting DH. You really just need to worry about re-signing Tek until he retires and make sure he has a capable backup since he's slowing down.


P.S. I really hate replying to these threads when the Sox are still in the playoffs...lol.

Adalbjorg
10-06-2008, 02:32 PM
As far as backups, I'd be very happy with free agents Mark Kotsay (if he would accept a backup role) and Juan Uribe. But I would prefer an improvement over Paul Byrd. I agree it doesn't have to be C.C. Sabathia, Ben Sheets or Jake Peavy. But I think A.J. Burnett would be a solid pickup. And I have to believe he would be a bargain relative to Sabathia because of his injury history and the fact that he's coming off an off year. The Red Sox have a lot of money to spend, so why should they settle for Byrd?

And I agree that the Red Sox do need to get a more solid backup catcher. They've expressed interest in the three Rangers backups (Laird, Saltalamacchia and Teagarden).

And finally they do need at least one more reliever. The problem is, there aren't that many free agent relievers out there. Francisco Rodriguez is really the only reliever of any quality and he's asking for way too much money, not to mention he wouldn't want to be the set up guy for Papelbon. I think this is one area where the Red Sox will have to make a trade.

futureheisman
10-06-2008, 03:05 PM
shouldnt this be in the 2008-2009 offseason thread

Adalbjorg
10-06-2008, 03:08 PM
I don't know, I just joined today so I'm sorry if I put this in the wrong place.

Ewagner
10-06-2008, 03:11 PM
i beleive the only dire need is a catchering prospect. i beleive byrd would be a solid 5th starter if he resigns. lester, dice-k and beckett make up the top three with buchholz getting another shot or another one of the young guns in that four whole. i do beleive we need to retool our lineup a bit. i don't believe pedroia is a number two hitter. he hits for power and may be better suited in the three hole like utley in philadelphia. it will need to be seen how ortiz comes back from the wrist. ortiz's eventual replacement will be lars anderson.

Crucis
10-06-2008, 04:00 PM
Ewagner, I actually think that Lars Anderson is Lowell's eventual replacement, with Youk moving over to 3rd and Anderson taking the 1B job.

Who eventually replaces Ortiz? First off, it depends on how much longer he's around. If he were to retire after this season (hardly likely, just bring using it for discussion purposes), Chris Carter might make a good, cheap replacement, since Carter's terrible defensively, but can certainly hit. Longer term, who knows.

As far as the rotation goes, a lot will depend on whether Wake retires or not.

futureheisman
10-06-2008, 06:10 PM
lars anderson is a 1st baseman not a 3rd

The Intimidator
10-06-2008, 06:30 PM
lars anderson is a 1st baseman not a 3rd

Crucis said that Anderson would play first and Youkilis would play third. Read before you post.

BostonHooligan1
10-06-2008, 06:45 PM
Between Manny Ramirez ($13 million more salary than Bay), Jason Varitek ($9 million) Curt Schilling ($8 million), Mark Kotsay ($8 million), Paul Byrd ($7.5 million) and Julian Tavarez ($3.85 million) the Red Sox will have over $40 million coming off the books this year.

Using that money, and the prospects were currently have, what moves do you think the Red Sox should make this offseason to improve the team?

hold up, u really think their going to let V-TECK and Mark Kotsay go? they just signed BYRD why not keep him?

Adalbjorg
10-06-2008, 06:49 PM
I just listed the free agents who were coming off the books. I'd very much like for them to resign Varitek and Kotsay, but I wanted to hear what other thoughts people might have on the subject. If their contract is up after 2008, I included them on the list.

As far as Byrd, I'm REALLY not a fan. He's going to be 38 next year and he hasn't had an ERA below 4.50 or a WHIP below 1.30 since 2005.

Tekmosis
10-06-2008, 06:51 PM
Manny is not a red sock anymore, get over it.

Wake's Fastball
10-06-2008, 06:59 PM
hold up, u really think their going to let V-TECK and Mark Kotsay go? they just signed BYRD why not keep him?

Kotsay I absolutely hope they let go. He hasn't hit the broad side of a barn in a month, and with guys like Bailey/Carter having much better bats for that roster spot, I hope they move on past him. I'd personally love to have Byrd back, he's the perfect "model of consistency" starter to complement the coin flips that are Dice-K and Wakefield (and Beckett at times). However, I suspect he was just a filler to end the season, especially with Buchholz and Masterson chomping at the bit.

Adalbjorg
10-06-2008, 07:00 PM
Tekmosis, that's the point. His salary is coming off the books, that's the only reason he was mentioned.

Adalbjorg
10-06-2008, 07:03 PM
The only thing Byrd's consistent at is making bad starts. I don't understand the appeal of a 38-year-old coming of an ERA of 4.60.

Wake's Fastball
10-06-2008, 07:05 PM
The only thing Byrd's consistent at is making bad starts. I don't understand the appeal of a 38-year-old coming of an ERA of 4.60.

Given our offense, I'll happily take Byrd's consistent 6/7 innings with 3/4 runs. It's a terrific bit of stability in the rotation.

Adalbjorg
10-06-2008, 07:09 PM
Byrd did average 6 innings a start last year, I'll give him that.

Crucis
10-06-2008, 07:45 PM
Kotsay I absolutely hope they let go. He hasn't hit the broad side of a barn in a month, and with guys like Bailey/Carter having much better bats for that roster spot, I hope they move on past him. I'd personally love to have Byrd back, he's the perfect "model of consistency" starter to complement the coin flips that are Dice-K and Wakefield (and Beckett at times). However, I suspect he was just a filler to end the season, especially with Buchholz and Masterson chomping at the bit.

I see no reason to expect Kotsay to stay. IIRC, this is a guy who is a starting grade OF'er, and is not likely to want to stay on this team as a backup. Personally, I see Bailey as being better for this role, since he's
never been a starting major leaguer and will accept a bench role, and because he'll be much cheaper. OTOH, I think that Carter's defense is too suspect to make him a good bench option on this team, particularly when you have a guy like Bailey to compete against.

Wake's Fastball
10-06-2008, 08:11 PM
I see no reason to expect Kotsay to stay. IIRC, this is a guy who is a starting grade OF'er, and is not likely to want to stay on this team as a backup. Personally, I see Bailey as being better for this role, since he's
never been a starting major leaguer and will accept a bench role, and because he'll be much cheaper. OTOH, I think that Carter's defense is too suspect to make him a good bench option on this team, particularly when you have a guy like Bailey to compete against.

Oh, I'll absolutely give you that Carter's defense isn't great. However, with Coco on the roster, there's not a gaping need for great outfield defense as it goes with the position, and given that Bailey's more than likely able to get legitimate ABs somewhere else next year, I'd put somewhat good odds on Carter sticking in the majors next year in Casey's PH role.

lil'papi
10-07-2008, 09:46 AM
**cough-cough** Lugo has to be dealt with. I believe you are looking at one of our utility players next year. They also were under the cap this year. Loads of questions need answering.

The rest I'll wait for winter. I'm all peetered out on this subject for now.

KingPapelbon
10-07-2008, 10:07 AM
1) Lugo remains on the team in a "super-sub" capacity - Starting 2 games, or so, a week, and rotating between 3B, SS, and the Outfield. Alex Cora is not re-signed.

2) Jason Varitek is re-signed.

3) I envision a trade with Texas, my best guess would be sending Kris Johnson or Dustin Richardson for Gerald Laird. If the Sox up the ante and involve Clay Buchholz than I can potentially envision Buchholz for Saltalamacchia, even though I'm not a big Salty fan.

4) The Bullpen: I see David Aardsma non-tendered and Mike Timlin retiring. I see the Sox signing Juan Cruz (3/$21M), Jeremy Affeldt (2/$12M), and Matt Wise (1/$3.5M)

5) Rotation: Byrd leaves via free agency. Buchholz is potentially traded. I can see Boston signing at least one SP, potentially two. Best guesses: Jason Jennings, Mark Mulder, and Odalis Perez. I think the #5 spot in the rotation will be Michael Bowden's by mid-season.

6) Mark Kotsay leaves, Sean Casey is re-signed.

RedSoxtober
10-07-2008, 10:26 AM
Between Manny Ramirez ($13 million more salary than Bay), Jason Varitek ($9 million) Curt Schilling ($8 million), Mark Kotsay ($8 million), Paul Byrd ($7.5 million) and Julian Tavarez ($3.85 million) the Red Sox will have over $40 million coming off the books this year.

Using that money, and the prospects were currently have, what moves do you think the Red Sox should make this offseason to improve the team?

You've overstated this by a wide margin. Kotsay and Byrd are "coming off the books", but they only cost the Sox the pro-rated portion of their salary for the time they spent on the Boston roster. I don't have a hard figure but I suspect it's in the range of $2.5-3M. There's still plenty of room to work given that they're roughly $15M under the cap (with the cap increasing), just not $40M off the books.


shouldnt this be in the 2008-2009 offseason thread

Yes, and it will be very soon. :D


hold up, u really think their going to let V-TECK and Mark Kotsay go? they just signed BYRD why not keep him?

They did not "sign Byrd." They did a waiver-wire trade for him that cost them only cash. He's a FA and would not be here were Wake not hurt at the time. His future with BOS is contingent upon the same thing: WWWD? (What Will Wake Do)

Kotsay was a starting CF and will continue to be one. No doubt he's enjoying the playoffs with Boston but there's no chance in hell that he stays in Boston with Bay, Coco, Ellsbury, and Drew on solid contracts.


Manny is not a red sock anymore, get over it.

And all God's people said, "Amen." We don't have to "get over it"; we're thrilled, and Bay is icing on the cake.


**cough-cough** Lugo has to be dealt with. I believe you are looking at one of our utility players next year. They also were under the cap this year. Loads of questions need answering.

The rest I'll wait for winter. I'm all peetered out on this subject for now.

I sure hope we can. The Sox were battling for the ALCS and we're still obsessed with what to do for next year? It ain't right.

Ewagner
10-07-2008, 01:21 PM
1. get bullpen help. I'm not sure if marte is a free agent but that is the kind of guy we should target.

2. Get Tex. move youk to third and lowell out of town. i knew at the time resigning him was a mistake. good player for fenway way but he is older and i saw him after he signed that big contract with the marlins.

3. a catching prospect. i would still go for teagarden which i have been saying for four months. he seems the most attainable from the rangers. they are invested in salty.

4. rollins. now if we can not get tex i beleive this may be an option. rollins will be in a contract year and has already bad mouthed the philly fans which is a no no. this will obviously cost us. i think a package of lowell and few minor league prospects. i believe moving pedroia in the three whole rollins in the one ellsbury in the two would make top seven batters amazing. rollins would be a better lead off because he can hit for more power from the lead off. it would also make ellsbury's speed even more valuable. this would make it nearly impossible to hit into a double play.

5. no to cc, burnett, or sheets. we are set in the top 3 spots. byrd would be a good 4 or 5. also we have enough young pitchers that we can rotate the 5th pitcher until something sticks.

futureheisman
10-07-2008, 04:27 PM
1. get bullpen help. I'm not sure if marte is a free agent but that is the kind of guy we should target.

2. Get Tex. move youk to third and lowell out of town. i knew at the time resigning him was a mistake. good player for fenway way but he is older and i saw him after he signed that big contract with the marlins.

3. a catching prospect. i would still go for teagarden which i have been saying for four months. he seems the most attainable from the rangers. they are invested in salty.

4. rollins. now if we can not get tex i beleive this may be an option. rollins will be in a contract year and has already bad mouthed the philly fans which is a no no. this will obviously cost us. i think a package of lowell and few minor league prospects. i believe moving pedroia in the three whole rollins in the one ellsbury in the two would make top seven batters amazing. rollins would be a better lead off because he can hit for more power from the lead off. it would also make ellsbury's speed even more valuable. this would make it nearly impossible to hit into a double play.

5. no to cc, burnett, or sheets. we are set in the top 3 spots. byrd would be a good 4 or 5. also we have enough young pitchers that we can rotate the 5th pitcher until something sticks.


1. getting rollins is almost impossible you would have to give up probably materson anderson and lowrie for him but I would love to see him at the top of the order with ellsbury but the price is way too high.

2. Get Tex would be good except how are you go to be able to trade lowell with his contract and injury problems?? again a good idea but its near impossible to trade lowell

I agree that we should not go after cc with his playoff meltdowns sheets with his torn muscle in his pitching shoulder and burnett with his history of injury problems. A guy like jon garland would be great here

Osiagledknarf
10-08-2008, 03:22 AM
4) The Bullpen: I see David Aardsma non-tendered and Mike Timlin retiring. I see the Sox signing Juan Cruz (3/$21M), Jeremy Affeldt (2/$12M), and Matt Wise (1/$3.5M)



$7 million a year for Juan Cruz?! Scot Shields doesn't even make $5 million a year, and he's one of the best setup men in baseball. Juan Cruz would NOT be setting up in Boston. For me, that much money for a guy who's been hit hard in the AL and had moderate success in a weak dvision in the NL is something NOT to do.

As for Marte, I believe he has an option year on his contract...which the Yankees are likely to pick up.

Fixing the bullpen is going to require creativity, and I suspect they'll lean heavily on Delcarmen, Masterson, and Okajima next year again anyway.

futureheisman
10-08-2008, 03:53 PM
^^^^^^^

agree with this i wont spend 7m for aguy your uncertain on to prefrom in this market and has a poor track record in the american league. I think you got great arms in delcarmen Materson and oki and of course paps are going to be the key guys next year. declarmen seems like he has turned around and looks like he will be your 7th inning guy next year. I wouldnt mind signing a guy who a low risk high reward guy like a matt wise or even a john smoltz coming off of shoulder surgery. I think the bullpen next year will be the best in the game.

76YazwSideburns
10-08-2008, 06:43 PM
The problem with the idea of "getting bullpen help" is that bullpen pitchers (with the exception of several consistently good closers) tend to be inconsistent at best. Probably because most of them really aren't that great relative to starters.

Tampa Bay '08- case in point. Goes from having the worst bullpen ERA in baseball to the best in one season.
Boston - '07 - best bullpen in baseball to having a mediocre bullpen in '08 without any major subtractions.
Toronto - great bullpen in '08, average bullpen in '07.
Cleveland - good bullpen in '07 - shite awful bullpen in '08.

The problem, generally, is that there are so few middle relievers who perform well year after year that teams tend to hold onto them - Scott Shields being the first example that leaps to mind. To note Shields value, think back to when we tried to shop Manny to LAA and Santana and Shields were what we were hoping for in return. That, clearly, speaks to what a valuable piece a consistently strong setup/middle relief pitcher is.

I suggest that the management will look for a few spare parts (like with Donnelly 2 years ago) and look within to solve this.

futureheisman
10-08-2008, 07:23 PM
get some arms that have low risk high reward sp if tyhey dont work out youre not stuck with a bad contract.

Osiagledknarf
10-09-2008, 03:23 AM
The problem with the idea of "getting bullpen help" is that bullpen pitchers (with the exception of several consistently good closers) tend to be inconsistent at best. Probably because most of them really aren't that great relative to starters.

Tampa Bay '08- case in point. Goes from having the worst bullpen ERA in baseball to the best in one season.
Boston - '07 - best bullpen in baseball to having a mediocre bullpen in '08 without any major subtractions.
Toronto - great bullpen in '08, average bullpen in '07.
Cleveland - good bullpen in '07 - shite awful bullpen in '08.

The problem, generally, is that there are so few middle relievers who perform well year after year that teams tend to hold onto them - Scott Shields being the first example that leaps to mind. To note Shields value, think back to when we tried to shop Manny to LAA and Santana and Shields were what we were hoping for in return. That, clearly, speaks to what a valuable piece a consistently strong setup/middle relief pitcher is.

I suggest that the management will look for a few spare parts (like with Donnelly 2 years ago) and look within to solve this.

I think you are probably very right. The names on the market are far from impressive...there's no need to make a signing just for the sake of making a signing. I think it will come down to some creative role re-assignment, pulling from within the organization, maybe some creative trades, and finally...some fringe free agent signings.

Greenmonster24
10-09-2008, 04:37 PM
I think you guys are jumping the gun on Lowell. Also Texierra will cost 25 million a year. I don't mind him but he is in my mind the same class as Manny or Vlad or Arod or others he is a good players but I not sure about putting that much years and money at first base as we should save it for a pitcher like Peavy or Oswalt or another Santana if they become available. I also think Lowell people are jumping the gun on. First of all the contract he deserve and turned down more years from Philies to sign in boston. If not for he injury missing end of year he would have had his 3rd straight 20 homerun season. He plays gold glove defense and is the model of a team player. A great veteran example for our rookies to look up to. I love the idea of getting Rollins as he be awesome at shortstop and if he on the market I try to pry him away. I like Lugo for Willis only because there is no good free agent pitchers worth the money this offseason. Sheets and Burnett have series health factors. I think Willis could suceed and bring Schilling back which he says starting in June and be a mid season addition like Clemens has done.
Wakefield I almost want to see him go as we need a platoon young catcher to be with Varitek who we must resign 2 years. I like Texas Catcher. As for Holliday I love Matt Holiday but chances are with Boras as a agent we can go after him after 2009 or at Deadline if Drew or Bay get hurt. I think we keep Drew and Bay.
People are going to hate me for saying it but we should trade Crisp if he can't be a everyday player. He hit really well when Drew was out for last month of year and has a team option of 8.5 million which won't be picked up if he is our 4th outfielder. Its not fair for him to enter free agent market as a backup and not get used as guys like Gary Mathew JR and company showed what doing great on contract year can do.

Osiagledknarf
10-10-2008, 01:07 AM
I don't think anyone is saying that Lowell isn't a great guy, a great clubhouse presence and leader, or a very good ballplayer. The simple fact of the matter is though, he's going to be 35 at the start of next season, and his back problems have been an issue two years running now. The current injury to his hip is a serious one. He's not necessarily done, but the nature of this injury is very suggestive. Personally, I am really hoping he can pull through. Whether or not he deserved the contract is not what I am concerned with (of course he deserved it), I think it was a bad move for the Sox...but I didn't gripe too much when it happened...I understood the sentiment.

I'm sure Teixeira and Boras will ask for $25 million a year...but I'm not convinced they will get it. He'll go for a substantial contract, no doubt...but for some reason, I feel like$25 million might be a little high. I guess we'll see. For me though...I look at it this way:a healthy, in their prime Youkilis and Teixeira at the corners makes the Red Sox a far better team than having a injured, limited, past his prime Lowell at 3rd base. That's indisputable. I wouldn't mind Lowell playing the role Sean Casey did this year though.

Jimmy Rollins is playing in Philadelphia next year. Where did these Rollins rumors start? He'd be great, sure...but there's no way it's going to happen.

I would definitely NOT do the Willis for Lugo trade. I think the whole premise of that rumor is flawed anyway, it was a tongue-in-cheek statement simply meant to compare contracts and player situations. Aside from it being probably nothing, if there WAS any credibility to it...I still think Lugo could offer more to the Red Sox as a super-utility player than Willis could offer trying to figure out how to pitch in the AL.

I totally agree with you on Sheets and Burnett...yuck.

Personally, I'd love to see the Red Sox and Schilling go their seperate ways. Thanks for 2004 Curt, and good luck in the future.

If Wakefield wants to come back at $4 million a year and eat up innings and get 10-14 wins...I'm A-OK with that.

They'll figure something at catcher. I totally agree with you on Varitek...bring him back, 2 years, 3rd year option...no more than $30 million total package value. As far as a young guy for Varitek to groom, I'm sure they'll do something...I doubt it will be blockbuster.

Holliday is enticing...I don't think it happens.

I do love Coco Crisp, because I think he's one of the most exciting CF's to watch in the game today...and I always feel secure with him out there. However, if they have an opportunity to get something better in return...then they should trade him. I am not so concerned with things being "fair" to Crisp though...he signed the contract willingly, and I expect players to uphold their contractual agreements. It's nice having Crisp to plug in if Drew goes down again.

Ewagner
10-10-2008, 01:39 PM
The only thing that scares me about the lowell situation is he always comes up big in contract years and the rest of the time he is average. he is an excellent defensive fielding 3B but with his injuries i could see him slowing down. in game three against the angels you could notice his limited range. it also scares me because i'm curious if the reason they kept him was because they were afraid of the public backlash. i'm not 100% sure of other options of the plan but it seems there could have been better options with his age and other factors.

as for rollins. i brought up rollins for one reason. next year is his contract year and i beleive he will not resign with the phillies. he expressed that during the year this year that he did not like philadelphia and took a pounding in the press. if they win the world series or has a good playoffs that could all change but i believe phildelphia will move him before the trade deadline and possible before the season if they feel his value is high

i would hate to seem them trade crisp but they may have to package him with lugo just to get lugo out of town. he is a great insurance policy for anyone in the outfield which is nice. it will be sad when he does leave.

i beleive there bullpen should be fixed from within. that always seems to be the best way. the life of a middle reliever is 3 years tops. they are generally average pitchers who throw a lot of innings. i would hate to see the sox waste masterson there because i think he could be a productive starter. that way be where buchholz ends up but he would be more valuable as a starting pitcher when trading.

I would not put it past the sox going after Tex. he is solid in the field and as a hitter. we do need another solid power bat behind ortiz. the sox do not have a single player ranked as one of the top 10 paid players. now i know that is not a real point, but it does show they have some money to spend. i also know i will get blasted for even bringing it up

one last thing. our OF is set for awhile with drew, ellsbury, and drew. there is no reason to mention holliday.

futureheisman
10-10-2008, 08:00 PM
how about the idea of getting jake peavey this offeseason it will probably take bucholtz khalish bard at least to get him. he is still young and one of the best young pitchers in baseball right now. i think its a steep price for a pitcher who has pitched in a pitchers park and in the national league for his entire career. The whole thing with the pen your core guys right now are going to be your core guys next year as well. MDC materson okijima and papelbon are going to make it work next year and bard coming up in july will add what any FA out there will add to this pen

Osiagledknarf
10-11-2008, 04:15 AM
The only thing that scares me about the lowell situation is he always comes up big in contract years and the rest of the time he is average. he is an excellent defensive fielding 3B but with his injuries i could see him slowing down. in game three against the angels you could notice his limited range. it also scares me because i'm curious if the reason they kept him was because they were afraid of the public backlash. i'm not 100% sure of other options of the plan but it seems there could have been better options with his age and other factors.

as for rollins. i brought up rollins for one reason. next year is his contract year and i beleive he will not resign with the phillies. he expressed that during the year this year that he did not like philadelphia and took a pounding in the press. if they win the world series or has a good playoffs that could all change but i believe phildelphia will move him before the trade deadline and possible before the season if they feel his value is high

i would hate to seem them trade crisp but they may have to package him with lugo just to get lugo out of town. he is a great insurance policy for anyone in the outfield which is nice. it will be sad when he does leave.

i beleive there bullpen should be fixed from within. that always seems to be the best way. the life of a middle reliever is 3 years tops. they are generally average pitchers who throw a lot of innings. i would hate to see the sox waste masterson there because i think he could be a productive starter. that way be where buchholz ends up but he would be more valuable as a starting pitcher when trading.

I would not put it past the sox going after Tex. he is solid in the field and as a hitter. we do need another solid power bat behind ortiz. the sox do not have a single player ranked as one of the top 10 paid players. now i know that is not a real point, but it does show they have some money to spend. i also know i will get blasted for even bringing it up

one last thing. our OF is set for awhile with drew, ellsbury, and drew. there is no reason to mention holliday.


For the most part, I agree with you! Especially on the Lowell thing...it was a move that limited the Red Sox in what they can do positionally for a while...and I suspect that "feeling good" was a motive. Lowell's a great guy, no one can argue that. If this hip injury is serious, you WILL definitely see his range and ability in the field diminish...let alone at the dish. He'll be 35 at the start of next season...this all should have been expected.

Put in the light that you did, I suppose I at least understand the Rollins hooplah. However, is one year of Rollins worth the price the Phillies are bound to ask for? Probably not...actually, definitely not.

I'm with you on Crisp...I love the guy, honestly. He's an amazing outfielder and probably the most exciting position player to watch field on the Red Sox roster.

There's alot of talk about moving Lugo...for me though, I don't see it happening. I'm not in favor of throwing a good player into a package with a bad one, just to get rid of the bad one. That doesn't make sense to me. Put Lugo on unconditional waivers...see if anyone bites. If not, have him come back as a super-utility player and give the bench a ton of versatility. Not a bad approach, in my opinion.

I totally agree with you on the bullpen, and I think they are likely to go that route...with some minor free agent signings and trades sprinkled in here and there. I used to be one of the biggest "Masterson should be a starter" proponents, but I have to admit I am almost completely converted to the idea of having him be Papelbon's setup guy. He's doing it very well, and being able to respond to the pressure of late inning, playoff baseball speaks highly for his ability to prosper and thrive in that role.

I don't think the point you brought up about the Red Sox payroll, and not having any of the top 10 paid players, is actually all that irrelevant. It definitely suggests that a large market team...and Boston is one of the largest...could add a player of Teixeira's contractual magnitude. Not a bad point. I'm still not sure they're going to go after Teixeira though, I'd love them too, but not sure they will. Ask lil'papi about the "long lineup" concept, I think that's the route the Sox are going for.

Totally agreed on the outfield, at least for 2009. Bay, Ellsbury, and Drew.

Osiagledknarf
10-11-2008, 04:20 AM
how about the idea of getting jake peavey this offeseason it will probably take bucholtz khalish bard at least to get him. he is still young and one of the best young pitchers in baseball right now. i think its a steep price for a pitcher who has pitched in a pitchers park and in the national league for his entire career. The whole thing with the pen your core guys right now are going to be your core guys next year as well. MDC materson okijima and papelbon are going to make it work next year and bard coming up in july will add what any FA out there will add to this pen


No doubt Peavy would be expensive...and with the state of the Red Sox starting rotation, there is no need to forfeit those kinds of prospects. No thank you. Peavy would be great (and I suspect he would thrive on most teams, NL and AL BOTH), I don't doubt that...it's just not a match for the Red Sox.

As for the bullpen, I think you are right.

futureheisman
10-11-2008, 10:08 AM
The pitching an dfense on this team is probably the best right now in the league. Osiagledknarf is right about peavey way too expensive. We may need to do something with the offense though.

I wouldnt mind seeing a guy like Holliday or texteria in here to add some pop to the lineup. If you could some how get text and move youk to third it would add already to a defense but a huge bat in the middle of the lineup. This would be your lineup in 2009:


CF:Ellsbury
2B:pedroia
DH:Ortiz
1b:Texteria
3B:Youk
LF: Bay
RF:Drew
SS:lowrie
C:Tec

I hope tec is not back next year

The Intimidator
10-11-2008, 11:21 AM
The pitching an dfense on this team is probably the best right now in the league. Osiagledknarf is right about peavey way too expensive. We may need to do something with the offense though.

I wouldnt mind seeing a guy like Holliday or texteria in here to add some pop to the lineup. If you could some how get text and move youk to third it would add already to a defense but a huge bat in the middle of the lineup. This would be your lineup in 2009:


CF:Ellsbury
2B:pedroia
DH:Ortiz
1b:Texteria
3B:Youk
LF: Bay
RF:Drew
SS:lowrie
C:Tec

I hope tec is not back next year

You have Tek in the lineup as our catcher, but you say in the next line that you don't want him here? What's next? And where, pray tell, is Mike Lowell in this lineup? Do you think he will be traded? Do you honestly think that Teixeira will be here next season?

futureheisman
10-11-2008, 01:05 PM
i think the red sox will do anything in there power to trade lowell and I do think that textiera will be here or there is a very good chance of it. I think that th red sox well resign tec but i think it is a bad idea his skills are going downhill and offers very very little to this team.

ThreeIfBaerga
10-11-2008, 01:18 PM
i think the red sox will do anything in there power to trade lowell and I do think that textiera will be here or there is a very good chance of it. I think that th red sox well resign tec but i think it is a bad idea his skills are going downhill and offers very very little to this team.



Dude it's PAINFUL to read your posts. Please, I'm begging you, put some effort into what you're typing, it's not that difficult. Punctuation, sentence structure, proper spelling. . . C'mon man.

The Intimidator
10-11-2008, 01:55 PM
i think the red sox will do anything in there power to trade lowell and I do think that textiera will be here or there is a very good chance of it. I think that th red sox well resign tec but i think it is a bad idea his skills are going downhill and offers very very little to this team.

If you think that the Red Sox are going to focus their entire off-season on trading Mike Lowell, then you're extremely disillusioned. And as long as our corner infield positions are occupied, there will be no Mark Teixeira. Sorry. You're entitled to your opinions, but just don't get your hopes up.

serGeant
10-11-2008, 03:58 PM
The Sox could win their second straight World Series with their current roster, so I don't see any huge changes being necessary. If they win their second straight, they deserve to reward themselves. Imagine if they can add an arm like CC Sabathia. A rotation of Beckett, Sabathia, Matsuzaka, Lester, and Wakefield/Bucholz in 2009? Now that would be a shot at the trifecta. No need to change the offense if you can win two championships with it AND give yourself the best rotation in the modern era. Plus there is the simple appeal of keeping CC away from the Yankees or Angels as well. That's worth a few extra million in itself. Any rotation with Jon Lester as its #4 is destined for another World Series appearance.

Osiagledknarf
10-11-2008, 09:04 PM
Osiagledknarf is right about peavey way too expensive.



I remember you saying something to the effect of "you know nothing about baseball" to me. I guess you don't think that's true now. Hmmm.

The Intimidator
10-11-2008, 09:07 PM
I remember you saying something to the effect of "you know nothing about baseball" to me. I guess you don't think that's true now. Hmmm.

We all just need to get used to the fact that future heisman is going to contradict himself multiple times per thread. :D

Osiagledknarf
10-11-2008, 09:15 PM
Haha. Yeah...the spelling absolutely murders me though. I don't doubt for a second that he loves baseball...inconsistency is aggravating though. I'm sure he's young though...the whole "future heisman" concept kinda suggests that...so maybe he'll get more credible at some point.

As far as Peavy though...he is right. Way too expensive. I like what he said about the 'pen too, they'll most likely draw from within and sprinkle some external additions here and there.

futureheisman
10-12-2008, 01:43 PM
haha. Yeah...the spelling absolutely murders me though. I don't doubt for a second that he loves baseball...inconsistency is aggravating though. I'm sure he's young though...the whole "future heisman" concept kinda suggests that...so maybe he'll get more credible at some point.

As far as peavy though...he is right. Way too expensive. I like what he said about the 'pen too, they'll most likely draw from within and sprinkle some external additions here and there.


whats wrong with my spelling.

hgtiger32
10-12-2008, 03:08 PM
-I’m a Brewers fan first off. I’m just wondering if you guys have any players “available.”

-I’m wondering who your UNTRADEABLE players are.

-Also, the guys that are available-let me know what you would want/expect for him in return.

-As well, can you put down your team needs…such as positions and stuff.

Humongo
10-12-2008, 04:24 PM
Alex Cora for Yovani Gallardo

ThreeIfBaerga
10-12-2008, 04:52 PM
I don't see the Red Sox making many big trades unless a Hanley Ramirez or Tim Lincecum becomes available, where I can see the Sox offering a package centered around Lowrie, Buchholz, Reddick or Bowden, or a combination of those players. Of the players currently on the roster, I don't see anyone really being moved (with the exception of Lowrie, and that really depends on how they feel about Lowrie's defense going forward).

They're pretty set in the rotation, so unless they sign CC or trade for someone's young established starter with huge upside I don't think we'll see much movement there. As for the offense, they'll need to bring in someone who they'd feel comfortable starting a large chunk of games at first or third depending on Lowell's overall health next season. I'd love to see Kotsay brought back as a super utility man to cover the outfield and 1b, but seeing as how the market for CFs this offseason looks like Kotsay, Crisp and Edmonds, I wouldn't be surprised to see him get a starting job somewhere.

The bullpen actually shapes up pretty decently for next season, they've got Papelbon-Delcarmen-Okajima-Masterson as definites, Lopez will likely be back that's 5 good relievers with Bard, Jones, Lentz and my sleeper pick of Bryan Price (http://www.soxprospects.com/players/price-bryan.htm) as possible mid-season additions.

As for why the Sox may want in a trade, their main need is at catcher where I'm sure they'd love to find a younger guy with some pop that can work with Tek in a 60/40 split in terms of playing time. They're all set at most positions, but Theo seems to always be on the hunt for relievers and possibly young established starters.

Tragedy
10-12-2008, 05:32 PM
-I’m a Brewers fan first off. I’m just wondering if you guys have any players “available.”
Julio Lugo.:laugh2:

Seriously, I don't see the Red Sox making any big trades this offseason.


-I’m wondering who your UNTRADEABLE players are.
Pedroia, Youkilis, Papelbon to start. I'd think guys like Masterson/Bowden will be untouchable as well.


-Also, the guys that are available-let me know what you would want/expect for him in return.
Julio Lugo. 6 pack of Miller Lite, and it's done.


-As well, can you put down your team needs…such as positions and stuff.
BULLLLLPEN!

Adalbjorg
10-12-2008, 07:49 PM
-I’m a Brewers fan first off. I’m just wondering if you guys have any players “available.”

-I’m wondering who your UNTRADEABLE players are.

-Also, the guys that are available-let me know what you would want/expect for him in return.

-As well, can you put down your team needs…such as positions and stuff.

PLAYERS ON THE TRADING BLOCK

Julio Lugo
Coco Crisp
Minor Leaguers

UNTOUCHABLES

Lester, Papelbon, Pedroia, Youkilis, Ellsbury, Buchholz, Lars Anderson, Michael Bowden

TEAM NEEDS

Starting pitcher, relief pitcher, backup catcher, backup infielder, backup oufielder

futureheisman
10-12-2008, 07:53 PM
materson you would have to put in that untouchable group as well

Osiagledknarf
10-13-2008, 12:27 AM
m-a-S!!!!!-t-e-r-s-o-n!!!

Osiagledknarf
10-13-2008, 12:30 AM
I think ThreeIfBaerga summed it up really well above. Congrats to the Brewers on a great season too!

Osiagledknarf
10-13-2008, 01:10 AM
Are you really seriously asking what's wrong with your spelling? Really?!

Your spelling is atrocious, haha. Just about every player's name you type is spelled incorrectly...everytime...over and over again.

RedSoxtober
10-13-2008, 10:35 AM
Are you really seriously asking what's wrong with your spelling? Really?!

Your spelling is atrocious, haha. Just about every player's name you type is spelled incorrectly...everytime...over and over again.

Justin Materhorn thanks you. :laugh:

RedSoxtober
10-13-2008, 10:58 AM
Are you really seriously asking what's wrong with your spelling? Really?!

Your spelling is atrocious, haha. Just about every player's name you type is spelled incorrectly...everytime...over and over again.


Justin Materhorn thanks you. :laugh:

Okay, I've got to call timeout on myself and everyone else here. The spelling is pretty bad and grammar sometimes difficult to read but the criticism has really gone on too long and across too many threads. fh needs to slow down and express himself more clearly and the rest of us need to cut him some slack. After all, if we could all write like Knarfie every post would be as long as a page of posts is now. :rolleyes:

futureheisman
10-13-2008, 11:11 AM
Thank you now back to dicussing offseason issues. Signing Teixeria would not only put power in the middle of the lineup but it would make them a better defensive team then they are right now. The only problem with this is that you will need to find a way to trade Lowell who over the pat few years has only produced during contract years and with his recent injury problems. If you could somehow trade Lowell. You would have sill have the best defense in the league and possibly in team history.

futureheisman
10-13-2008, 11:16 AM
congrats from me as well to the Brewers for a great season

76YazwSideburns
10-13-2008, 01:46 PM
Thank you now back to dicussing offseason issues. Signing Teixeria would not only put power in the middle of the lineup but it would make them a better defensive team then they are right now. The only problem with this is that you will need to find a way to trade Lowell who over the pat few years has only produced during contract years and with his recent injury problems. If you could somehow trade Lowell. You would have sill have the best defense in the league and possibly in team history.

Trading Lowell won't be easy at all if we're looking for anything more than the equivalent of Francona's playoff supply of Double Bubble in return.
Tex is also looking - this according to him - for a 10 year deal (he may have backed off of this, I don't know).

Considering our ownership group's longest contract is Dice-K's 5 years, I think Tex and Boras (who, is a ****, so it's said) won't like what we've got to offer them.

76YazwSideburns
10-13-2008, 01:49 PM
My big post-season question is:

If Youk shaved his beard and goatee would he be a dead ringer for Popeye?

Otherwise, not many post-season questions.

Greenmonster24
10-13-2008, 02:54 PM
Masterson and Bucholz should not be untouchable in a right package I trade them like for Peavy or Hudson or Holliday. I also think if Lowell not healthy someone like Dunn or Fielder or Howard if they were to become avaliable. If for some reason Jimmy Rollins is on trade market I think I give up a very lot to get him as he be a great long term answer. We have 2 cheap infielders that are allstars in Peroia and Youk that we control as a low price so we can afford to pay one alot. WIth Lars Anderson moving Youk to third or Carter when Lowell done we can afford him and he make our infield the best in baseball if Lowell comes back healthy next year and hits 20 homers 100 Rbi's. Lugo we dump if someone better at shortstop can be had if not he and lowrie are going to battle to see who the starter and who takes Alex Cora role as super utility infielder. They both can play shortstop and second and third as Lugo did it with Dodgers in 06.

KingPapelbon
10-13-2008, 03:07 PM
Masterson and Bucholz should not be untouchable in a right package I trade them like for Peavy or Hudson or Holliday. I also think if Lowell not healthy someone like Dunn or Fielder or Howard if they were to become avaliable. If for some reason Jimmy Rollins is on trade market I think I give up a very lot to get him as he be a great long term answer. We have 2 cheap infielders that are allstars in Peroia and Youk that we control as a low price so we can afford to pay one alot. WIth Lars Anderson moving Youk to third or Carter when Lowell done we can afford him and he make our infield the best in baseball if Lowell comes back healthy next year and hits 20 homers 100 Rbi's. Lugo we dump if someone better at shortstop can be had if not he and lowrie are going to battle to see who the starter and who takes Alex Cora role as super utility infielder. They both can play shortstop and second and third as Lugo did it with Dodgers in 06.

This post is so flawed, and scattered that it almost gave me a seizure. :(

KingPapelbon
10-13-2008, 03:22 PM
PLAYERS ON THE TRADING BLOCK

Julio Lugo
Coco Crisp
Minor Leaguers

UNTOUCHABLES

Lester, Papelbon, Pedroia, Youkilis, Ellsbury, Buchholz, Lars Anderson, Michael Bowden

TEAM NEEDS

Starting pitcher, relief pitcher, backup catcher, backup infielder, backup oufielder

I disagree on the untouchables, especially Clay Buchholz.

A trade of Buchholz to Texas has been banted about, with Jarrod Saltalamacchia, or Taylor Teagarden coming back - It makes too much sense to ignore.

Another one that interests me is the potential counter-punch that the Red Sox might make if the Yankees secure Sabathia and Teixeira.

The rotation appears to be 4 deep - Buchholz needs time, and Masterson is destined for a set-up role, so that leaves Beckett/Matsuzaka/Lester/Wakefield in no particular order.

I think if Boston acquires a starter it is NOT Ben Sheets, CC Sabathia, AJ Burnett, or the like. I don't think they would go as far as Jake Peavy, but there are many starters out there that make sense via trade that we probably have not even heard of.

For your consideration (merely speculation)

Crisp and Buchholz to Oakland for Justin Duchscherer?

Crisp, Reddick, and Dustin Richardson to Seattle for Erik Bedard?

Michael Bowden and Bubba Bell to Cincinnati for Aaron Harang?

Aaron Bates and Kris Johnson to Pittsburgh for Ian Snell, or perhaps Paul Maholm?

futureheisman
10-13-2008, 03:40 PM
peavey would cost way too much

RedSoxtober
10-13-2008, 03:51 PM
Trading Lowell won't be easy at all if we're looking for anything more than the equivalent of Francona's playoff supply of Double Bubble in return.
Tex is also looking - this according to him - for a 10 year deal (he may have backed off of this, I don't know).

Considering our ownership group's longest contract is Dice-K's 5 years, I think Tex and Boras (who, is a ****, so it's said) won't like what we've got to offer them.

Boras is his agent so that's no surprise. He won't drop the demand, either, until he knows that he cannot get it. I doubt anyone ponies up that kind of an offer.

Greenmonster24
10-13-2008, 04:53 PM
I taught Dice K contract was 6 years.

futureheisman
10-13-2008, 06:34 PM
yup 6 years 52 mill I think

futureheisman
10-13-2008, 06:38 PM
I disagree on the untouchables, especially Clay Buchholz.

A trade of Buchholz to Texas has been banted about, with Jarrod Saltalamacchia, or Taylor Teagarden coming back - It makes too much sense to ignore.

Another one that interests me is the potential counter-punch that the Red Sox might make if the Yankees secure Sabathia and Teixeira.

The rotation appears to be 4 deep - Buchholz needs time, and Masterson is destined for a set-up role, so that leaves Beckett/Matsuzaka/Lester/Wakefield in no particular order.

I think if Boston acquires a starter it is NOT Ben Sheets, CC Sabathia, AJ Burnett, or the like. I don't think they would go as far as Jake Peavy, but there are many starters out there that make sense via trade that we probably have not even heard of.

For your consideration (merely speculation)

Crisp and Buchholz to Oakland for Justin Duchscherer?

Crisp, Reddick, and Dustin Richardson to Seattle for Erik Bedard?

Michael Bowden and Bubba Bell to Cincinnati for Aaron Harang?

Aaron Bates and Kris Johnson to Pittsburgh for Ian Snell, or perhaps Paul Maholm?



Why would you trade for erik bedard. Who is aron bates and kris johnson. the whole harang for bowden is borderline idiotic. harang struggled mightly in the NL this year.

RedSoxtober
10-13-2008, 11:56 PM
I taught Dice K contract was 6 years.


yup 6 years 52 mill I think

The implication, I believe, was that the longest contract on the books is an obligation for five years. However, that's a bit exagerated. Dice-K was going to be club-controlled for 6yrs anyway so they just spread the payments out.

Tragedy
10-14-2008, 12:00 AM
The implication, I believe, was that the longest contract on the books is an obligation for five years. However, that's a bit exagerated. Dice-K was going to be club-controlled for 6yrs anyway so they just spread the payments out.
Exactly.

It's the same thing as having Pedroia, Papelbon, and Youkilis, just with more money going to Matsuzaka.

Osiagledknarf
10-14-2008, 02:47 AM
After all, if we could all write like Knarfie every post would be as long as a page of posts is now. :rolleyes:

Hey now!!! I've been trying to cut it down, haha!

KingPapelbon
10-16-2008, 11:40 AM
Why would you trade for erik bedard. Who is aron bates and kris johnson. the whole harang for bowden is borderline idiotic. harang struggled mightly in the NL this year.

It is hysterical to me that I'm the one being called idiotic by the guy that doesn't even know who the players are that I am referencing.

ThreeIfBaerga
10-16-2008, 12:04 PM
Until May 25th:

78.2 innings, 3.32 era .721 OPSa with a 1.194 whip

May 25th, Red-Padres extra inning game when on 2 days rest Harang throws 4 innings, 67 pitches.

Since May 25th:

77.1 innings, 7.07 era .996 OPSa with a 1.675 whip.

Thanks a lot Dusty Baker.

TotallySox9097
10-16-2008, 12:37 PM
Until May 25th:

78.2 innings, 3.32 era .721 OPSa with a 1.194 whip

May 25th, Red-Padres extra inning game when on 2 days rest Harang throws 4 innings, 67 pitches.

Since May 25th:

77.1 innings, 7.07 era .996 OPSa with a 1.675 whip.

Thanks a lot Dusty Baker.

did you expect any different bakers only claim to fame is that he is an expect in ruinpitcherology

TotallySox9097
10-16-2008, 12:38 PM
how about oliver perez instead of sheets, burnett, or cc

The Intimidator
10-16-2008, 01:18 PM
how about oliver perez instead of sheets, burnett, or cc

Perez made 6.5 million this season and went 10-7 with a 4.22 ERA. I see him as a decent #3 or #4 starter, and if he wants anything significantly higher than 7 or 8 million, I would say no deal. He had a lot of potential when he was with Pittsburgh, but he's too inconsistent for my liking.

futureheisman
10-16-2008, 03:24 PM
are top three next year are set Beckett Dice K and Lester. we could sign a guy like burnett or perez. So lets just say say we sign burnett who I have mixed feelings about. How about trading for a guy like Ian Snell. To get Snell you would probably have to get up someone like a khalish to get him but he I believe would a good fifth and has been very very good with the pirates. Giving up a guy like Khalish may seem foolish for a 4th or 5th starter but I think it would be worth in the long run with drew being locked up for years to come.

Tragedy
10-16-2008, 03:42 PM
are top three next year are set Beckett Dice K and Lester. we could sign a guy like burnett or perez. So lets just say say we sign burnett who I have mixed feelings about. How about trading for a guy like Ian Snell. To get Snell you would probably have to get up someone like a khalish to get him but he I believe would a good fifth and has been very very good with the pirates. Giving up a guy like Khalish may seem foolish for a 4th or 5th starter but I think it would be worth in the long run with drew being locked up for years to come.
No.

Beckett (Til 2010), Matsuzaka (2012), Lester (Here for a long time). We have Buchholz, Masterson, and Bowden as potential starters by the end of 2009. Why bring in two starters that take up these young players spots?

As the Red Sox have shown recently, they like giving the young kids a chance. There is no reason to bring in a Burnett when Bowden will likely be ready (Hopefully, anyways) to start for a full season in 2010.

futureheisman
10-16-2008, 04:24 PM
buchholz wont be up here till join next year and will be brought up slowly. Masterson will be in the pen for the forseeable future and bowden will not be ready for another year ro so to take over the job. you got keep in mind that one of these starters will be probably packaged for a young catcher.

Tragedy
10-16-2008, 04:40 PM
buchholz wont be up here till join next year and will be brought up slowly. Masterson will be in the pen for the forseeable future and bowden will not be ready for another year ro so to take over the job. you got keep in mind that one of these starters will be probably packaged for a young catcher.
I'm all for Masterson as a starter for next year and going forward, so until the Red Sox announce that he's going to be a BP guy next year and beyond, I won't stop assuming he'll be starting.

Bowden will probably act as the Masterson/Buchholz of 2009 - If he does well in the minors they'll probably allow him to start anywhere from 5-10 starts depending on how well he does/what type of injuries the starting staff suffers.

I understand that it's probably 2010 before Buchholz/Bowden are full time starters on this staff (Assuming they do not get traded), but bringing in AJ/Snell would hold back the young guys for BEYOND 2009. No sense in doing that.