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View Full Version : The pro-_______ Thread



brandonwarne52
08-18-2008, 02:44 AM
What surprises me a lot is that bleeding hearts' hearts don't bleed for unborn infants.

I don't get it at all.

WES445
08-18-2008, 12:59 PM
What surprises me a lot is that bleeding hearts' hearts don't bleed for unborn infants.

I don't get it at all.

What surprises me a lot is that far-right folks don't give a damn about children once they are here. Stopping drugs from coming into a neighberhood, using the excuse that they don't want to learn ( at one time they said they couldn't learn) to not fortify our education systems, healthcare for infants and children and letting children live in dangerous environments.
I get it, we don't want to do the heavy lifting to better our children lives.

b1e9a8r5s
08-18-2008, 01:12 PM
I thought this thread was supposed to be a simple I'm X years old and am a "_____". Instead I've learned that people on the right don't care about children, lol. You've all got to learn to play nice and have arguements based on substance, not name calling.

WES445
08-18-2008, 03:43 PM
I thought this thread was supposed to be a simple I'm X years old and am a "_____". Instead I've learned that people on the right don't care about children, lol. You've all got to learn to play nice and have arguements based on substance, not name calling.

Hey the guy made a blanket statement and I added mine own.

brandonwarne52
08-18-2008, 06:34 PM
Hey the guy made a blanket statement and I added mine own.

Yeah, only mine actually made sense.

WES445
08-21-2008, 03:00 PM
Yeah, only mine actually made sense.

I tried of the abortion debate. If you outlaw abortion, the rich will have their private doctor do it and the poor will be in the back alley getting it done by butchers. It is a evil that gets worse when it is illegal. It is not about not caring for the unborn, but controling the abortion industry.
A blanket statement just look good to the naive.

Raidaz4Life
08-21-2008, 04:28 PM
I tried of the abortion debate. If you outlaw abortion, the rich will have their private doctor do it and the poor will be in the back alley getting it done by butchers. It is a evil that gets worse when it is illegal. It is not about not caring for the unborn, but controling the abortion industry.
A blanket statement just look good to the naive.

Only problem is you can make that argument for just about anything illegal... "well people are doing it anyways even though its illegal so obviously we should just allow it"

WES445
08-21-2008, 06:14 PM
Only problem is you can make that argument for just about anything illegal... "well people are doing it anyways even though its illegal so obviously we should just allow it"

They did it with with beer, because the corruption, death toll, and the hoodlums making tons of money put a strain on the social system. Not everybody is religious, or think life begins at conception. Some consider it a woman's personal decision. I am against abortion pass the first tri-semster, but anything before that is a woman personal choice. Any religious feeling about it should be a personal expression not a political agenda. Hell, we don't even worry about the welfare of our nation's children, so this pious attitude about unborn babies is self-serving.

b1e9a8r5s
08-21-2008, 06:24 PM
They did it with with beer, because the corruption, death toll, and the hoodlums making tons of money put a strain on the social system. Not everybody is religious, or think life begins at conception. Some consider it a woman's personal decision. I am against abortion pass the first tri-semster, but anything before that is a woman personal choice. Any religious feeling about it should be a personal expression not a political agenda. Hell, we don't even worry about the welfare of our nation's children, so this pious attitude about unborn babies is self-serving.

I say we do it with Kiddy Porn too. People are doing it anyways, and as you say, "we don't even worry about the welfare of our nation's children".

Raidaz4Life
08-21-2008, 06:31 PM
They did it with with beer, because the corruption, death toll, and the hoodlums making tons of money put a strain on the social system. Not everybody is religious, or think life begins at conception. Some consider it a woman's personal decision. I am against abortion pass the first tri-semster, but anything before that is a woman personal choice. Any religious feeling about it should be a personal expression not a political agenda. Hell, we don't even worry about the welfare of our nation's children, so this pious attitude about unborn babies is self-serving.

I don't know what this has to do with religion... I mean my religion plays absolutely not roll in my view on abortion considering (to be completely honest) I haven't seen a verse of the Bible that gives an opinion on the subject.

However I do believe once a woman has exercised her right to consentual sex her choice has already been made. The basis of sex is reproduction and once a person makes the choice to engage in "the reproduction method" they should have to live with the results. To say otherwise puts each and every individual's life into the hands of someone who may or may not be responsible enough to handle it. For all we know someone who could have provided the world with the cure to cancer was aborted and never given the chance to offer the world something new, all because women all of a sudden have this right to deny life to the world and people who would love and care for it.

WES445
08-21-2008, 06:33 PM
I say we do it with Kiddy Porn too. People are doing it anyways, and as you say, "we don't even worry about the welfare of our nation's children".

sure, while we are being simple-minded, add animal sex too.

WES445
08-21-2008, 06:37 PM
I don't know what this has to do with religion... I mean my religion plays absolutely not roll in my view on abortion considering (to be completely honest) I haven't seen a verse of the Bible that gives an opinion on the subject.

However I do believe once a woman has exercised her right to consentual sex her choice has already been made. The basis of sex is reproduction and once a person makes the choice to engage in "the reproduction method" they should have to live with the results. To say otherwise puts each and every individual's life into the hands of someone who may or may not be responsible enough to handle it. For all we know someone who could have provided the world with the cure to cancer was aborted and never given the chance to offer the world something new, all because women all of a sudden have this right to deny life to the world and people who would love and care for it.
The religious right are the major backers of anti-abortion agenda. Come on you knew this.
I agree about missing greatness in aborting a child, but do we have the right to police a woman's body? Being a man, do I have the right to force mine views on a woman? Your beliefs are great for you, but may not be for someone else. Sorry got to go, work calls.

b1e9a8r5s
08-21-2008, 06:53 PM
The religious right are the major backers of anti-abortion agenda. Come on you knew this.
I agree about missing greatness in aborting a child, but do we have the right to police a woman's body? Being a man, do I have the right to force mine views on a woman? Your beliefs are great for you, but may not be for someone else. Sorry got to go, work calls.

You know the other side of this don't you? Do we have the right to police a baby by determining it should die? And there in lies the issue.

Raidaz4Life
08-21-2008, 08:22 PM
The religious right are the major backers of anti-abortion agenda. Come on you knew this.
I agree about missing greatness in aborting a child, but do we have the right to police a woman's body? Being a man, do I have the right to force mine views on a woman? Your beliefs are great for you, but may not be for someone else. Sorry got to go, work calls.

Well as much as woman may like to say otherwise, its not their right to police children.... and why shouldn't men have a say I'd say they have just as much claim to a child as a woman who "offered her body" in the first place.

SmthBluCitrus
08-21-2008, 09:39 PM
Well as much as woman may like to say otherwise, its not their right to police children.... and why shouldn't men have a say I'd say they have just as much claim to a child as a woman who "offered her body" in the first place.

Ok, to play devil's advocate here -- and the likely feminist card (mind you, I'm no feminist, and this isn't my personal argument, but it needs to be made).

How much say should the male reasonably have? They have a task that lasts all of 5 minutes ( ... I'm just saying, it doesn't always take long). Women have to actually deal with it.

-What's to say the father will even stick around or help in the raising of the child emotionally, physically, and monetarily.
-It also isn't the man's body. The woman has to carry the child.
-What if the mother's life ... or the baby's life ... is in danger? Do you let the mother die with little chance of survival for the child outside the womb?
-What about cases of rape? Should the woman be forced to carry the offspring of a rapist?

The thing is, you can't hold judgement over all the cases. Access to safe abortions needs to be legal, otherwise you'd be tying up the judicial system even more so than it already it.

I'm a woman, and personally I'm pro-life where it concerns my own body. I have never considered abortion (I have two children, the first was conceived prior to my husband and I getting married ... we were engaged at the time).

-HOWEVER- I will not hold judgement over the decision of another woman. I don't believe it should be used as a form of birth control, but it still isn't my place (nor is it anyone else's but hers). She can include the father in her decision, or not, but that's her perogative.

Abortion needs to remain safe, legal, and rare. Sexual education is always the best tactic to take so the expecting can make an informed decision.

Eastside Scott
08-21-2008, 10:00 PM
This has taken a strange turn, but I will drop my two cents in for what it is worth.

Intellectually I am pro-choice. However, I have a hard time justifying that position heavily.

I have two beautiful sons. In between those two sons, my wife had a miscarriage. I have to tell you that when that happened, it felt to both of us like we lost a child, not a cluster of cells. That is why it is even harder now for me to justify my base feeling that abortion should stay legal.

think about stories you read about women who lose babies during crimes (they are beaten, shot, whatever). What is your first reaction? For a lot of people it is "(blank) killed a baby". I am the same way, and yet I say I am pro-choice.

It is really tough and I cannot get on anyone for their opinion.

This is yet another reason why I hate partisan politics so much. What does aborton have to do with immigration? What does the Fed have to do with highway work? The list is endless, and yet each party creates a platform that encompasses every issue on Earth and creates a "with us or against us" mentality. It is ridiculous. I should be able to want low taxes, staunch national defense, and gay marriage. What relation do those things have to each other? None, but what party am I if I am for all of those things? If I am not a party, who serves my interests?

SmthBluCitrus
08-21-2008, 10:20 PM
You're right, this thread did veer a bit.

And, I absolutely respect your position. I think that it's a place where we both see eye-to-eye. And as a mother/parent, I feel for you and your wife. That's a horrible thing that I understand all to well. I suffered a miscarriage as well; very early, but it was still an absolute shock to my husband and myself. Our miscarriage was between our two children as well (daughter then son). It is much more common than people realize.

But, I absolutely agree. Politically speaking, I'm pro-choice. But, it's an entirely different issue when it becomes personal. And, although I tend to lean left on a lot of social issues (abortion, gay marriage, environment) and more centered on some (I like to think economy, trade, and foreign policy), there are very few candidates that one can truly align themselves behind.

I, for instance, was a huge John Edwards supporter. He was a populist labor candidate. But, the reason I got behind him was health care and tax reform. He had strong union support -- but I'm a free-trader.

Now, I don't know where I'm going with this. But, I just wanted you to know that I get where you're coming from.

DenButsu
08-21-2008, 11:08 PM
Seems it had to be made. The "age and affiliation" thread was getting completely derailed.

WES445
08-22-2008, 02:07 AM
This has taken a strange turn, but I will drop my two cents in for what it is worth.

Intellectually I am pro-choice. However, I have a hard time justifying that position heavily.

I have two beautiful sons. In between those two sons, my wife had a miscarriage. I have to tell you that when that happened, it felt to both of us like we lost a child, not a cluster of cells. That is why it is even harder now for me to justify my base feeling that abortion should stay legal.

think about stories you read about women who lose babies during crimes (they are beaten, shot, whatever). What is your first reaction? For a lot of people it is "(blank) killed a baby". I am the same way, and yet I say I am pro-choice.

It is really tough and I cannot get on anyone for their opinion.

This is yet another reason why I hate partisan politics so much. What does aborton have to do with immigration? What does the Fed have to do with highway work? The list is endless, and yet each party creates a platform that encompasses every issue on Earth and creates a "with us or against us" mentality. It is ridiculous. I should be able to want low taxes, staunch national defense, and gay marriage. What relation do those things have to each other? None, but what party am I if I am for all of those things? If I am not a party, who serves my interests?

Agree totally with your feeling on abortion. My late wife and I never considered it a option even when the first one was a surprise. It is a personal decision.

WES445
08-22-2008, 02:19 AM
You know the other side of this don't you? Do we have the right to police a baby by determining it should die? And there in lies the issue.

This all go to back to when you believe life begins. Before the first tri-semster, for me, no. For you, it made be conception. Thus we will never agree.

brandonwarne52
08-22-2008, 02:48 AM
Yeah, I didn't make this thread.

blenderboy5
08-22-2008, 02:57 AM
Hey if poor people want to scrape out their insides with a coathanger, be my guest. One of the many reasons poor people give birth to poor people who give birth to poor people is they can't keep their legs closed until marriage anyway.

But this thread is going to be a flamefest anyway. The topic sentence is just asking for flaming and discussion on abortion could start off a bit more intellectually

brandonwarne52
08-22-2008, 03:24 AM
I didn't create this thread and I want it ****ing closed.

It is my viewpoint, but I posted it in a thread.

DenButsu
08-22-2008, 03:31 AM
I didn't create this thread and I want it ****ing closed.

It is my viewpoint, but I posted it in a thread.

Your post was just the first in the derailment of that other thread, and I had to extract these posts out of there to keep it on track.


I would be perfectly fine with closing this and that being the end of it. Nobody is going to change anyone's mind on this issue anyhow, in my opinion. So that's what I'm going to do. I'm sure at some point it'll pop up again, but we'll cross that road when we come to it.