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View Full Version : Lets talk about Larry Bird...



samxeyeam
08-20-2008, 12:24 PM
Maybe this is one of those "do not talk about" subjects... Maybe its too sensitive... Maybe he's not comparable... but im just DYING to know why... WHY isnt LARRY BIRD compared to any other player EVER! (that i know of...) We have plenty of michael jordan wannabe's, magic johnson wannabe's, Shaq wannabe's, etc... the list goes on and on... but NEVER a LARRY BIRD... Is he that untouchable? Why is "Michael Jordan" supposed to be the best player EVER being compared to other players almost every second? Is it because jordan is the best player ever, that is why people are saying that should be the goal for the youngin? Or is it because Larry Bird wasnt as good as a player with the list above? (I am pretty sure my last statement isnt the case) Are there no one else that played like him for all this time? What do you guys think?

knicks1214
08-20-2008, 12:33 PM
He was compared to Adam Morrison after coming out of college because both are incredibly slow, neither have an ounce of athleticism in their entire body, and both are good shooters.

nyyfan4life
08-20-2008, 12:34 PM
So few people can dominate the NBA like Bird did given his skill set. The closest that comes to Bird in today's NBA is probably Dirk.

BigSteve
08-20-2008, 12:38 PM
He is a pretty rough comparison. In order to compare someone to him you have to have a player come into the league that plays the way he did. All the players coming out today seem to be high flyers more worried about dunking than making-mid range shots. Larry Bird was not flashy or athletic, but he was about as fundamentally sound as any player to ever play the game.

DreamShaker
08-20-2008, 12:41 PM
He was compared to Adam Morrison after coming out of college because both are incredibly slow, neither have an ounce of athleticism in their entire body, and both are good shooters.

Did you ever watch Bird??? To say he didn't have an ounce of athletic ability in his entire body is a vast exaggeration to say the very least....

Zefflin
08-20-2008, 12:43 PM
Paul Peirce maybe?

DreamShaker
08-20-2008, 12:50 PM
He is a pretty rough comparison. In order to compare someone to him you have to have a player come into the league that plays the way he did. All the players coming out today seem to be high flyers more worried about dunking than making-mid range shots. Larry Bird was not flashy or athletic, but he was about as fundamentally sound as any player to ever play the game.

Truth....Magic and Bird were actually alot alike as far as the way they played....both were other-worldly passers and playmakers and both were clutch beyond anything weve seen outside of MJ in the past 25 years....of course Magic got more assists and Bird got more rebounds....but these guys played very similar....very few people know how to balance unselfishness with the ability to take over a game at exactly the right moment....they never seemed to force anything on a consistant basis like many players do today....

Also the obvious answer is people just don't compare black players to white players and since Bird....we just have not sdeen a white dude with even close to as much skill as him....that wasn't from Europe....

DreamShaker
08-20-2008, 12:52 PM
Paul Peirce maybe?

I can see it a little....but PP wasn't the playmaker Bird was....

Zefflin
08-20-2008, 12:52 PM
My thoughts exactly...plus both look nonathletic but both are secretly explosive.

samxeyeam
08-20-2008, 12:55 PM
Did you ever watch Bird??? To say he didn't have an ounce of athletic ability in his entire body is a vast exaggeration to say the very least....

Exactly one of my points, **** like these kinds of statement will make larry bird untouchable, get over it dammit... Ricky Davis, Vince Carter were compared to Michael Jordan... Did the people who compared those two watch jordan play? YES THEY DID!!! ...or maybe not???

But then DreamShaker does bring up a good point though... Maybe it is a skin color thing...

DreamShaker
08-20-2008, 12:56 PM
My thoughts exactly...plus both look nonathletic but both are secretly explosive.

Yeah....it's funny that people say Bird couldn't make it in today's NBA because he wasn't a premier athlete while Nash, Dirk, Pierce, and Duncan aren't anything to write home about athletically....

DreamShaker
08-20-2008, 01:02 PM
Exactly one of my points, **** like these kinds of statement will make larry bird untouchable, get over it dammit... Ricky Davis, Vince Carter were compared to Michael Jordan... Did the people who compared those two watch jordan play? YES THEY DID!!! ...or maybe not???

But then DreamShaker does bring up a good point though... Maybe it is a skin color thing...

Reason I asked if he had ever seen Bird play is because he compared to him ADAM FREAKIN MORRISON.....and his athletic ability was not THAT bad....if you saw him play....you would understand that....feel me?

And Bird isn't untouchable....Lebron actually has alot of Larry Bird in him being a big man who could pass like that....of course Larry was a better shooter and Lebron is an athletic freak.....Dirk has some Bird in them....but the reason Vince Carter might remind you of MJ is because he wants to be MJ.....everybody does.....so they copy him....

Hawkeye15
08-20-2008, 01:04 PM
Larry Bird is a top 5 player ever, and the best SF to ever play. Athletic ability comes in all dimensions, and his hands and small space quickness were unmatched. And his brain was a stronger muscle than anyone has had in the league. Anyone who questions him being listed as a top player of all time doesn't understand basketball AT ALL

Mile High Champ
08-20-2008, 01:08 PM
People may get pissed at me but I really think its a race issue. I think people don't want to even try and compare a player if he is not white to Larry Bird. I really think it is part of the reason but obviously not all of it.

knicks1214
08-20-2008, 01:08 PM
Fine...he was very unathletic. I know I'm going to take some heat for this, but I think Lebron is closing in on Bird...if he hasn't done so already.

samxeyeam
08-20-2008, 01:09 PM
To start off, DreamShaker, you seem like a very knowledgeable guy in basketball so dont take it like im trying to start an argument... I do feel you with adam morrison being compared to larry bird...(and yes i did see larry bird play) My point is, we both seen jordan play, does ricky davis and vince carter comparable to jordan? That is equally absurd with the comparison with adam morrison but people do it anyways... So why does ricky davis and vince carter gets away with it while adam morrison comparison gets bombarded?

I love the way you think about lebron james... I say he is more in the larry bird, kevin garnett, jason kidd category than the jordan/kobe category because of his overall game... I am glad someone else actually recognizes that...

Zefflin
08-20-2008, 01:12 PM
I love the way you think about lebron james... I say he is more in the larry bird, kevin garnett, jason kidd category than the jordan/kobe category because of his overall game... I am glad someone else actually recognizes that...

Yeah I've been saying that since he's joined the league, even throw in Dr. J and the Glide in there too.

samxeyeam
08-20-2008, 01:13 PM
Hawkeye15, what are you talking about? Who said larry bird wasnt one of the greatest players of all time?

Mile High Champ, agreeing with you, even though its sorta sad to think that way...

knicks1214, totally agree with you...

Hawkeye15
08-20-2008, 01:16 PM
Hawkeye15, what are you talking about? Who said larry bird wasnt one of the greatest players of all time?

Mile High Champ, agreeing with you, even though its sorta sad to think that way...

knicks1214, totally agree with you...

I wasn't replying to anyone, just making a statement on Bird. Wanted to throw my opinion out there in case anyone came onto the board thinking he was overrated in any way.

samxeyeam
08-20-2008, 01:17 PM
I wasn't replying to anyone, just making a statement on Bird. Wanted to throw my opinion out there in case anyone came onto the board thinking he was overrated in any way.

I thought you misread the starting comment to this thread... :D

Hawkeye15
08-20-2008, 01:24 PM
Fine...he was very unathletic. I know I'm going to take some heat for this, but I think Lebron is closing in on Bird...if he hasn't done so already.

LeBron has thousands of points and a hundred playoff games to go before he catches Bird. Sorry. A ring may help as well. Bird was a far better rebounder, even though he wasn't athletic, averaged more assists than LeBron, and take away the decline years, and his scoring was the same. 3 rings, rookie of the year, 3 time league MVP, 2 Finals MVP's, 10 time all star, 9 times first team all NBA, 3 times second team all Defense
LeBron has a long way to go people, seriously. If he stays healthy, and wins a ring, then I may agree he should be in the top 5 of all time.

DreamShaker
08-20-2008, 01:26 PM
Fine...he was very unathletic. I know I'm going to take some heat for this, but I think Lebron is closing in on Bird...if he hasn't done so already.

How has Lebron passed Bird?? Bird has 3 rings and won multiple MVP's....Lebron might be there but lets hit the brakes on that a little bit till he wins some rings and MVP's.....Lebron is just scratching the surface of his potential though.....so I do get where your coming from.....but to turn talent into production is totally different....

DreamShaker
08-20-2008, 01:28 PM
To start off, DreamShaker, you seem like a very knowledgeable guy in basketball so dont take it like im trying to start an argument...

I didn't take it as that....it's hard to detect motives and attitudes over the internet and you seem calm and nice so I didn't take it that way....

samxeyeam
08-20-2008, 01:31 PM
The only reason I can think lebron is right there with larry bird is because he took his team to the finals... Granted the East was abit weaker, it is still a very impressive performance granted he took out the pistons... If he had alittle bit more help, then yes I would not give him most of the credit, but I do have to give him ALOT of credit with the team he had.... (Not to FULLY take away the credit of his teammates...) And how DreamShaker said he only scratched the surface of his potential... It just runs shivers down my spine....

Joshtd1
08-20-2008, 01:41 PM
People may get pissed at me but I really think its a race issue. I think people don't want to even try and compare a player if he is not white to Larry Bird. I really think it is part of the reason but obviously not all of it.

Agreed. I can honestly say, that the only people I've ever heard compared to Bird have been white guys.

Hawkeye15
08-20-2008, 02:03 PM
The only reason I can think lebron is right there with larry bird is because he took his team to the finals... Granted the East was abit weaker, it is still a very impressive performance granted he took out the pistons... If he had alittle bit more help, then yes I would not give him most of the credit, but I do have to give him ALOT of credit with the team he had.... (Not to FULLY take away the credit of his teammates...) And how DreamShaker said he only scratched the surface of his potential... It just runs shivers down my spine....

Larry Bird won rookie of the year, and helped the Celtics win 28 games more than the previous season. He then led them to an NBA championship the following year. I think that trumps LeBron making the finals.
Not a criticism, but how old are you? I think it maybe because you never saw Bird until he was old and tired.

samxeyeam
08-20-2008, 02:09 PM
Ok lets change gears then... Kobe is right there with Jordan... By the way, that is sort of a "low blow" saying larry bird won the rookie of the year, C'mon now, we all know Lebron cant win that ever... I strongly believe Lebron shoulda won it over carmelo...

Zefflin
08-20-2008, 02:11 PM
Nope, not until he wins a ring as the true leader of his team. Which hopefully and probably will happen this year.

Mile High Champ
08-20-2008, 02:11 PM
Agreed. I can honestly say, that the only people I've ever heard compared to Bird have been white guys.

To me it just seems like it has been built into society, especially sports. African Americans want to be compared other great African American basketball players, not a white player. That is why the comparison is never made. Look at Rubio, the kid in Spain, he is being compared to Pete Marvich. I believe both those guys are white right..hahah.

Hellcrooner
08-20-2008, 02:13 PM
Because Jordan Wannabees (KObe, Carter, Lebron) At least have had some or A LOT (kobe) of success in theyr impersonators.

I think the media Gave up in seeking the New Larry after putting teh new bird Label on a lot of Crap.

DOnt you rmeber the list of new Birds?

Danny Ferry

TOm GUgliotta

Christian Laettner

Mike Miller.

Adam Morrison.


The funny thing is there IS someone who woudl be a good clone and its call3ed dirk

theuuord
08-20-2008, 02:15 PM
People may get pissed at me but I really think its a race issue. I think people don't want to even try and compare a player if he is not white to Larry Bird. I really think it is part of the reason but obviously not all of it.

LOL of course it is.

Think about how often you hear "unathletic," "no explosiveness," "weak" about white players.

Think about how often you hear "creative," "flashy," "colorful," "exciting" about Latin players. (this transcends into baseball as well)

Or "fundamentally sound," "strong jump shooter," "plays the game the right way" for Euro players...

There are a million of the same stereotypes for black players, so I won't even start there.

etc. etc.

The world is dominated by ethnocentric thinking, basketball is no different...

samxeyeam
08-20-2008, 02:15 PM
I could almost see the comparision with mike miller... but then larry bird does have that "greatness" with his name, while mike miller has the "6th man" vibe...

Mile High Champ
08-20-2008, 02:22 PM
LOL of course it is.

Think about how often you hear "unathletic," "no explosiveness," "weak" about white players.

Think about how often you hear "creative," "flashy," "colorful," "exciting" about Latin players. (this transcends into baseball as well)

Or "fundamentally sound," "strong jump shooter," "plays the game the right way" for Euro players...

There are a million of the same stereotypes for black players, so I won't even start there.

etc. etc.

The world is dominated by ethnocentric thinking, basketball is no different...

well know one else said it yet so clearly no one else was going to say it. But it is something that always with very good white basketball players, they always talk about their game IQ and their understanding of the game. Kevin Love is a great example of this for 2008. Though he actually is a very very smart basketball player.

Max Power
08-20-2008, 02:22 PM
Because Jordan Wannabees (KObe, Carter, Lebron) At least have had some or A LOT (kobe) of success in theyr impersonators.

I think the media Gave up in seeking the New Larry after putting teh new bird Label on a lot of Crap.

DOnt you rmeber the list of new Birds?

Danny Ferry

TOm GUgliotta

Christian Laettner

Mike Miller.

Adam Morrison.


The funny thing is there IS someone who woudl be a good clone and its call3ed dirk

Yes. there have plenty of guys labled the "Next Bird" all white, of course. And any bald black guy who dunks well is compared to MJ. Remember Baby Jordan?

For whatever reason people generally stay away from comparing white players to blacks and vice virsa. Even if they have similar skill sets.
I have heard a few compare Duncan to McHale. But that's kind of BS seeing Duncan is a much better player that McHale ever was.
After the draft last year i was asked by a friend, who, in the pros, would I compare Kevin Durrant to. I said if successful, he'll be comparable to Dirk. He said I was crazy to compare him to a white guy.
People, especially when it comes to basketball, don't like to cross racial lines when it comes to comparisions. It's pretty stupid.

DreamShaker
08-20-2008, 02:45 PM
I could almost see the comparision with mike miller... but then larry bird does have that "greatness" with his name, while mike miller has the "6th man" vibe...

The only thing Miller has in common with Bird is he's white and he can shoot....Bird could score in every way possible....much like Melo except with better shot selection and more range.....he could pass just as well as Magic....he averages nearly or above 10RPG his whole career....there is more than a name to Larry Bird....he was one of the greatest basketball players that we have ever seen....Mike Miller is decent....

BigSteve
08-20-2008, 02:49 PM
Its a shame the racial lines issue still comes up. This country has made great strides in race relations, but the truth is there is still a ways to go. That said, its two sided. Black youth tend to look up to black men while white youth tend to look up to white men. Like it or not, thats the way it is. There are exceptions to the rule, but truth be told they are just exceptions.

Alot of young players who do not know a ton about Larry Bird think he is completely nonathletic. When your coming out of college in order for your draft stock to be high generally you need to be looked at as "explosive" and "creative." If a young black man coming out of college is compared to Bird and all he knows is what he has seen in highlight videos he may in his head take it as an insult.

Also, I never understood comparing Lebron to Jordan. In my opinion they are worlds away in playing style. To me he is this generations Magic Johnson. A tall player who can run the point (or play any other position you need him to), an oustanding passer and solid scorer.

JordansBulls
08-20-2008, 02:50 PM
The guy who gets compared to Bird nowadays is Dirk Nowitzki.

Aapox
08-20-2008, 03:30 PM
People don't talk about Bird much because he wasn't flashy and he wasn't dominant. He was simply the one of the most fundamentally sound and headiest players ever. He used his adequate athletic talent on top of his extraordinary mentality to make some of the most amazing plays in the history of the NBA. From the game footage I've seen of Larry, I don't remember one mistake, big or small. And before I get burned for that--I'm young, and haven't seen much..never saw him play personally.

samxeyeam
08-20-2008, 03:31 PM
I might get crapped on again about this but I really dont care... I dont know how many people remember this but when Luke Walton was shooting lights out behind the arc... (It lasted alittle over the allstar break) He was shooting it at 60% and it sorta dropped to 45%ish... (Granted the NBA wont count the stat unless the shot is attempted a certain amount at a given time... For example, a player has to attempt of a total of 200 shots, lets say half way through the season, to be ranked) He can play the 4, 3, 2 and he has a pretty high basketball IQ and great court vision. Yes, he was nowhere near Larry Bird even at that point of his career but isn’t that one of those “there might be a chance of him being the next Larry Bird?” They both don’t make money with their athleticism, they both have great basketball IQ, they can shoot the 3 ball, and can rebound. (Granted Luke probably will never avg. 10 reb a game…)

MiamiHeat
08-20-2008, 03:33 PM
i think Larry Bird was a little overrated
(dont kill me :ohno:)

pippsux
08-20-2008, 03:38 PM
I agree that Dirk is the closest. Dirk lacks that extra killer instinct that Bird did, but Dirk is the closest.

NYMetros
08-20-2008, 03:44 PM
The closest guy I've seen that compares to Bird is Dirk. Dirk, however, still lacks that amazing passing ability that Larry Bird had. Larry was probably the clutchest shooter in NBA history. Not sure if you can place Dirk under that same category. Larry was a true leader as well.

Honestly, I don't think there will ever be another Larry. He was truly one of a kind.

knicks1214
08-20-2008, 03:48 PM
Mile-It's kind of hard to compare one player to another player who lacks the same qualities. The new age NBA forwards/guards are all quick and athletic. Bird was not quick or anywhere near as athletic as guys like Lebron, Melo, Vince or other players who play guards/forward position. You can't say that Shane Battier is like Michael Jordan because they both shoot the ball. It's the same thing with comparing players. You can't say that an athletic/quick player is similar to Bird except in shooting maybe. Fine, maybe Lebron isn't near Bird yet, BUT I can guarantee that when Lebron decides to retire, he will surpass every NBA player...possibly even Jordan if Lebron develops a good jump shot and wins some rings. And I do agree with the Dirk/Bird comparison.

Nighthawk
08-20-2008, 04:17 PM
i think Larry Bird was a little overrated
(dont kill me :ohno:)

no-one's going to kill you for anything you say.

BUTTTTT

instead of just saying "bird is overrated" and thats it can we have reasoning? how about an explanation on why Larry Bird, the greatest SF EVER is overrated???

NYMetros
08-20-2008, 04:21 PM
i think Larry Bird was a little overrated
(dont kill me :ohno:)

How? A 3-time MVP (consecutive years), 12 time NBA all-star, 9-time all-NBA first team player is overrated?

tkshy
08-20-2008, 04:22 PM
Mile-It's kind of hard to compare one player to another player who lacks the same qualities. The new age NBA forwards/guards are all quick and athletic. Bird was not quick or anywhere near as athletic as guys like Lebron, Melo, Vince or other players who play guards/forward position. You can't say that Shane Battier is like Michael Jordan because they both shoot the ball. It's the same thing with comparing players. You can't say that an athletic/quick player is similar to Bird except in shooting maybe. Fine, maybe Lebron isn't near Bird yet, BUT I can guarantee that when Lebron decides to retire, he will surpass every NBA player...possibly even Jordan if Lebron develops a good jump shot and wins some rings. And I do agree with the Dirk/Bird comparison.

Those are some big if's my friend. If he develops a jump shot, if he wins some rings. If Vince Carter had any heart and won some rings he would be better too. If Melo could make his teamates better and win some rings he would be better. If Kobe could stay unselfish and trust his team and win some more rings he could be better.
That is the difference, Jordan had no if's.

On the race thing it is sad we can't just compare players by skill set and we end up looking at color. Maybe one day we won't have to.

Nighthawk
08-20-2008, 04:32 PM
Those are some big if's my friend. If he develops a jump shot, if he wins some rings. If Vince Carter had any heart and won some rings he would be better too. If Melo could make his teamates better and win some rings he would be better. If Kobe could stay unselfish and trust his team and win some more rings he could be better.
That is the difference, Jordan had no if's.

On the race thing it is sad we can't just compare players by skill set and we end up looking at color. Maybe one day we won't have to.


Sadly........NEVER

knicks1214
08-20-2008, 04:40 PM
@Tk I hear you 100%. But, you have to admit, it seems that Lebron has a lot more drive right now than either of those players ever had. Just look, he took the Celtics last year to 7 games...ALONE...and he did the same thing the year before and took the Cavs to the finals single-handedly.

Hawkeye15
08-20-2008, 04:40 PM
How on earth is Larry Bird overrated? I have already listed his stats, his accomplishments, etc. This man led a nothing college team to the national championship. Indiana State was 33-0 going into the title game. And he had nobody on that team. His first year, he had the biggest win turnaround ever for a rookie, until Duncan beat it. He won an NBA title in his second season, 3 overall, against Magic, Dr J, in their primes. I am sorry, anyone who says he is overrated is so wrong it isn't even funny. He averaged 20-10-5 5 straight years. KG is the only other player to do that. Again, anyone who thinks he is not a top 5 player doesn't understand basketball, or didn't get to watch him play

Hawkeye15
08-20-2008, 04:43 PM
Ok lets change gears then... Kobe is right there with Jordan... By the way, that is sort of a "low blow" saying larry bird won the rookie of the year, C'mon now, we all know Lebron cant win that ever... I strongly believe Lebron shoulda won it over carmelo...

LeBron did win it. he won it before he even played a game though. Larry beat a player named Magic for it.

samxeyeam
08-20-2008, 04:48 PM
I dont know why I keep on thinking carmelo won it... I guess he won it before but he still had carmelo anthony and dwane wade to compete with... I know what you mean by Lebron winning it before he played though.

midwestmadman
08-20-2008, 04:49 PM
When he came out of College and into the league Tom Gugliotta got a lot of Larry Bird comparisons, the thing is that Larry by his own admission wasn't the most talented or athleticly gifted player, but he possessed a very vast basketball knowledge and seemed to have instincts that other didn't have. Many players today would compare to his shooting ability but none have both the shooting touch and smooth passing that made him a champion. Bird was a great team player and was almost like a PG in a F body, playmaking wise I could compare his game to maybe Lamar Odom, but Larry was less turnover prone and had a much better shooting game, also Larry always looked under control, while Lamar looks uncomfortable many times when the ball is in his hands.

midwestmadman
08-20-2008, 04:50 PM
Maybe I could say Chris Webber when he was in his prime but no longer dunking with the power he used to have. Weber again though didn't have the range but he had the smooth passing for a big man and made plays.

Lakersfan2483
08-20-2008, 04:56 PM
Bird was a great player, but not many players have his style, Dirk is the most similar, but Dirk is not nearly as good in the following areas: Leadership, Passing, and the ability to take over a game and hit shots.

vigilantex69
08-20-2008, 04:59 PM
Birds white. Nobody will compare anyone to him just for that reason.

Hawkeye15
08-20-2008, 05:02 PM
Birds white. Nobody will compare anyone to him just for that reason.

color doesn't matter. He would have been great no matter what. You can't find anyone that is like him. Maybe a poor mans version, like Dirk. But he isn't tough enough, clutch enough, or well rounded enough. And Bird's passing ability was insane. If Kevin Love can continue cutting weight, there is a really poor man comparison

ackar
08-20-2008, 05:32 PM
I am going to say this if there was draft one players from any era and I was draft fourth. Jordan would be gone at one slot, bill russel the two slot, Magic at the third slot i am taking Bird at the foruth slot yes I said shoot me Bird is the fourth greatest player of all time in my book. this coming form aman who saw Bird Celtics beats my Bulls for years no matter how great MJ was Bird found a way.

Larry Legend is called that for a reason. He was great and he was athletic go back watch some games whole games not just highlights.

Lebron is more like a Magic/Bird hybrid he can be scary if he gets better and get a robin to his batman.

_Sn1P3r_
08-20-2008, 05:40 PM
I dont know why I keep on thinking carmelo won it... I guess he won it before but he still had carmelo anthony and dwane wade to compete with... I know what you mean by Lebron winning it before he played though.

Probably cause Melo won the MVP for the RookieSophomore game??

And Bird is hard to compare to today. He can do literally everything on the court. Closest players to compare to Bird are Dirk and LeBron IMO.

18colts29
08-20-2008, 05:42 PM
I didnt want to read the whole thread but I would compare peja to bird.

76YazwSideburns
08-20-2008, 05:46 PM
Dirk is the Anti-Bird.

Bird was a player of superior smarts, toughness, hustle and performed at his best in the most important games...........not seeing any resemblance to Dirk there other than the tall white guy who can shoot angle.

All the things that made Bird special are things mostly abhorred by todays players so there won't be many like him again; his game was low on pretty, high on results.

76YazwSideburns
08-20-2008, 05:46 PM
I didnt want to read the whole thread but I would compare peja to bird.

And they wouldn't compare well at all.

knicks1214
08-20-2008, 05:48 PM
Lol that was shut down quickly...it is hard to compare someone to him as the game has changed dramatically. Now, athleticism and speed are really important, but when he was playing, if you were a smart/fundamentally sound player, then that was very important.

CB4AB7VC15
08-20-2008, 05:59 PM
Larry bird is Hedo and Magic is Boris Diaw............... its all an evolution, how we went from black and white tv to colored. I've seen alot of bird and magic games and they aren't all that impressive. They are slow, very unatheletic and can barely get off there feet. Players should just be compared to the era they play in. I would bet alot of money that Wilt would never score 100 and average all those crazy stats in todays game. The league is tooooooo talent today.

Hawkeye15
08-20-2008, 06:22 PM
Larry bird is Hedo and Magic is Boris Diaw............... its all an evolution, how we went from black and white tv to colored. I've seen alot of bird and magic games and they aren't all that impressive. They are slow, very unatheletic and can barely get off there feet. Players should just be compared to the era they play in. I would bet alot of money that Wilt would never score 100 and average all those crazy stats in todays game. The league is tooooooo talent today.

THen you don't understand basketball. No, I don't think there is a chance Wilt scores 100 now. But Magic and Bird would still be perennial all stars, and in the top 5 players today. They kicked Jordan's butt before he became Jordan.

CB4AB7VC15
08-20-2008, 11:38 PM
THen you don't understand basketball. No, I don't think there is a chance Wilt scores 100 now. But Magic and Bird would still be perennial all stars, and in the top 5 players today. They kicked Jordan's butt before he became Jordan.

63 points in 86 against celtics, he was kicking butt before they knew who he was. I speak from what I see and that is very unatheletic and way too hyped players that can't hold a candle to todays player. All I'm saying is players should just be compared to players in there own era cuz none of their stats would be achieved in todays game.

BigSteve
08-20-2008, 11:42 PM
THen you don't understand basketball. No, I don't think there is a chance Wilt scores 100 now. But Magic and Bird would still be perennial all stars, and in the top 5 players today. They kicked Jordan's butt before he became Jordan.

Actually, I think them kicking his butt when he was younger is part of what made Jordan the player he was.

barreleffact
08-21-2008, 12:58 AM
sadly, you are very right about the race thing. we, dont want to be compared to white people. its just offensive to us. sorry but its true. but even if bird was black, we couldnt want to be compared to him. the man was very good, but look at most black players....we are athletes. we want to be compared to people who are seen as supremely athletic. its like calling someone TD. its great cuz the man won, and because he is is incredibly sound, but when you see kg and his athleticism we'd rather be compared to him yet more clutch and dominant. thats the reality. bird loses as either race in our eyes. but he sho did win in the league so who cares. lastly i think id consider dirk then nocioni as birdesque. Lebron is magic johnson, not bird. but dirk is a given and nocioni is a hustler. not that athletic but he can score, play d, and do a lot. i think he is very underrated

barreleffact
08-21-2008, 01:00 AM
63 points in 86 against celtics, he was kicking butt before they knew who he was. I speak from what I see and that is very unatheletic and way too hyped players that can't hold a candle to todays player. All I'm saying is players should just be compared to players in there own era cuz none of their stats would be achieved in todays game.

i agree whole heartedly. the game has changed so much. who knows how great MJ would have been if the NBA allowed zone. cant argue because we will never know.

Hellcrooner
08-21-2008, 02:45 AM
Magic wouldnt make so much assists today, basically because the players that he passed the ball too woudl try to do that oh so nice and stylish move to appear on youtube, and the ball will go out of the ring...

S.J.Basketball
08-21-2008, 02:58 AM
He was compared to Adam Morrison after coming out of college because both are incredibly slow, neither have an ounce of athleticism in their entire body, and both are good shooters.


LOL WHHHAAATTTTT?!?!?!

primetimekings
08-21-2008, 08:07 AM
Larry bird is Hedo and Magic is Boris Diaw............... its all an evolution, how we went from black and white tv to colored. I've seen alot of bird and magic games and they aren't all that impressive. They are slow, very unatheletic and can barely get off there feet. Players should just be compared to the era they play in. I would bet alot of money that Wilt would never score 100 and average all those crazy stats in todays game. The league is tooooooo talent today.

WOW did really make that comparison.if those celtics or lakers teams were around 2day they would still win 60 games and be in the finals.they had athletes back then to they just didnt make a team or play alot because so were so horrible fundamentally.gerald green proves u have to be more than an athlete to make it in this league

primetimekings
08-21-2008, 08:08 AM
Dirk his MVP season i think could be in the talks of the next bird until he choked so hard against the warriors

JordansBulls
08-21-2008, 08:22 AM
Dirk his MVP season i think could be in the talks of the next bird until he choked so hard against the warriors

http://www.nba.com/mavericks/stats/2006/conf_quarter_stats.html

samxeyeam
08-21-2008, 10:14 AM
sadly, you are very right about the race thing. we, dont want to be compared to white people. its just offensive to us. sorry but its true. but even if bird was black, we couldnt want to be compared to him. the man was very good, but look at most black players....we are athletes. we want to be compared to people who are seen as supremely athletic. its like calling someone TD. its great cuz the man won, and because he is is incredibly sound, but when you see kg and his athleticism we'd rather be compared to him yet more clutch and dominant. thats the reality. bird loses as either race in our eyes. but he sho did win in the league so who cares. lastly i think id consider dirk then nocioni as birdesque. Lebron is magic johnson, not bird. but dirk is a given and nocioni is a hustler. not that athletic but he can score, play d, and do a lot. i think he is very underrated

He would have been good enough, granted he was averaging like 20pts 5 reb 5 assist when he was 40 years old with the wizards... And we cannot forgot players can adapt... I strongly believe a 20 year old jordan would adapt to this kind of play style in this era... I will probably get hammered for this but a larry bird or a magic johnson, i believe, probably either be a bench player or not be able to hang in this era... Jordan had that build, quickness, explosiveness that looks like he can adapt to this era... Bird and Magic, they were slow... How many 6'9" designated point guards after Magic? Yes, there are point forwards like LeBron James, Antoine Walker, or bigger guards like Larry Hugues, Bret Barry, Ray Allen (remember those two shared the responsibilities as PG in seattle) but they were all quick like guards...

Sixerlover
08-21-2008, 11:17 AM
http://www.nba.com/mavericks/stats/2006/conf_quarter_stats.html

Sorry to get OT, but you're saying he didn't choke?

ewing
08-21-2008, 11:22 AM
He was compared to Adam Morrison after coming out of college because both are incredibly slow, neither have an ounce of athleticism in their entire body, and both are good shooters.


What are you 12? Larry Bird was 6'10, strong enough to grab 10 rebounds a night, fast enough to drive past just about anyone who match him, plus he had the best hands and eyes in the game. He didn't have sprinter speed or great ups but to say he didn't have and once of athleticism is just dumb

ewing
08-21-2008, 11:26 AM
Also the obvious answer is people just don't compare black players to white players and since Bird....we just have not sdeen a white dude with even close to as much skill as him


thats the real answer. White guys are always compared to white guys and no one touches Bird

knicks1214
08-21-2008, 11:26 AM
He was not athletic or quick...the game has changed completely from when he played and now. He is about as athletic as Jerome James....back then, maybe his athleticism and speed was considered good, but today it would not even be considered average.

ewing
08-21-2008, 11:34 AM
People don't talk about Bird much because he wasn't flashy and he wasn't dominant. He was simply the one of the most fundamentally sound and headiest players ever. He used his adequate athletic talent on top of his extraordinary mentality to make some of the most amazing plays in the history of the NBA. From the game footage I've seen of Larry, I don't remember one mistake, big or small. And before I get burned for that--I'm young, and haven't seen much..never saw him play personally.



To say Bird wasn't flashy is a mistake. The guy probably made 8 of 10 most insanely flashy and creative passes I've ever seen

Nighthawk
08-21-2008, 11:36 AM
I'm sorry but you cant even compare Dirk to Larry Bird. Dirk is the closest thing the nba has to bird and hes still far far far far far away from EVER being Larry Legend. Dirk should be compared more to Big Bird. Bird and dirk were both shooter for there size. Excellent shooters. thats it. Bird brought toughness, was aggressive night in and night out. Dirk by many is considered soft and even got slapped by d. west in the playoffs and did nothing. We;'ve seen numerous bird fights. Bird was athletic, was he jordan athletic, NOO, but some of you are making him seem as athletic as Tractor Traylor. Bird was an fantastic passer as well. he could set anyone on his team up. he made the players around him better. im not quite sure we can say the same thing for Dirk. most of all Bird was a winner. when it mattered and mattered most. we've seen dirk get beat in the first round by the 8th seed. Also to anyone saying Larry is overrated?? i recomend u do lots of research. maybe purchase some old videos if you can and watch the man play for 48 minutes. cuz larry bird is as far away as you can get from being overrated.

3RDASYSTEM
08-21-2008, 11:51 AM
Cant Compare Him To No One Cuz No White/and Most Black Players Has Even Come Close To His Game/iq..u Can Compare More People With Mj Cuz Its So Many More Biterz/athletic Freaks(kobe) Who Spend Their Whole Life To Try And Pattern They Game After Mj And Then Its Like Oh Wait He Reminds Me Of This Guy(mj) Cuz He Duplicates The Same Moves That Made Mj So Great, Quick Note To Everybody: Jus Becuz A Guy Shoots Fadeaways,walks,talks And Tries To Show A Competitive Spirit Like Mj Doesnt Make Him Comparable To Mj If Anything He Falls Off,its Ok To Borrow A Lil Bit But Dont Strip Someonez Blueprint Then Act Like U Da Best, But Back To The Topic Dirks Not Even Close To Bird U Wanna Know Why...jus Go Back To Warriors Series

samxeyeam
08-21-2008, 12:06 PM
Cant Compare Him To No One Cuz No White/and Most Black Players Has Even Come Close To His Game/iq..u Can Compare More People With Mj Cuz Its So Many More Biterz/athletic Freaks(kobe) Who Spend Their Whole Life To Try And Pattern They Game After Mj And Then Its Like Oh Wait He Reminds Me Of This Guy(mj) Cuz He Duplicates The Same Moves That Made Mj So Great, Quick Note To Everybody: Jus Becuz A Guy Shoots Fadeaways,walks,talks And Tries To Show A Competitive Spirit Like Mj Doesnt Make Him Comparable To Mj If Anything He Falls Off,its Ok To Borrow A Lil Bit But Dont Strip Someonez Blueprint Then Act Like U Da Best, But Back To The Topic Dirks Not Even Close To Bird U Wanna Know Why...jus Go Back To Warriors Series


Why you hating on kobe? This thread is about Larry Bird and not how players "bite" each other. If you want to see people biting each other, go watch the tyson/holyfield fight... Well kobe's been doing a hell of a job "imitating" jordan right? (scoring titles, MVP, 3 rings,etc...)

Nighthawk
08-21-2008, 12:16 PM
Why you hating on kobe? This thread is about Larry Bird and not how players "bite" each other. If you want to see people biting each other, go watch the tyson/holyfield fight... Well kobe's been doing a hell of a job "imitating" jordan right? (scoring titles, MVP, 3 rings,etc...)

sorry but NOOOO kobe isnt imitating jordan good at all. You take jordan off those bulls teamS an no one thinks they would have 6 rings. While you take kobe off those laker teams and people still think shaq would of got them the rings. Jordan NEVER lost in the finals. What did Kobe do about 4 months ago? he was shut down by the eventual FINALS MVP and got his *** whipped in the finals. this thread isnt about KOBE though. Its about BIRDS AWESOMENESS

samxeyeam
08-21-2008, 12:37 PM
sorry but NOOOO kobe isnt imitating jordan good at all. You take jordan off those bulls teamS an no one thinks they would have 6 rings. While you take kobe off those laker teams and people still think shaq would of got them the rings. Jordan NEVER lost in the finals. What did Kobe do about 4 months ago? he was shut down by the eventual FINALS MVP and got his *** whipped in the finals. this thread isnt about KOBE though. Its about BIRDS AWESOMENESS

If you read the post that you "quoted" i did say this wasnt a thread about kobe... I just dislike it when people just come in randomly and hate on other players... Hating and being a critic is two different things I believe.

$KnicksAndKobe$
08-21-2008, 12:48 PM
Dannilo"ivan drago bird" Gallinari

BigSteve
08-21-2008, 02:07 PM
I think its funny when people say guys like Magic and Bird would never make in todays game. I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news, but the majority of NBA players today are trash. They are athletic and have next-to-no understanding of how to play the game. They are streetball guys that worry more about flashy highlight reals than winning. Mid 80's to mid 90's teams would destroy the current crop in the NBA. I'll take a slower less athletic group with a high basketball IQ over a bunch of high flyers.

76YazwSideburns
08-21-2008, 02:34 PM
I think its funny when people say guys like Magic and Bird would never make in todays game. I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news, but the majority of NBA players today are trash. They are athletic and have next-to-no understanding of how to play the game. They are streetball guys that worry more about flashy highlight reals than winning. Mid 80's to mid 90's teams would destroy the current crop in the NBA. I'll take a slower less athletic group with a high basketball IQ over a bunch of high flyers.

Totally Agree.

Further - Bird and Magic probably were two of the 3-4 smartest players EVER. They might figure out how to play today.

The other thing they've got over todays players is their intensity - todays stars absolutely fall all over themselves not to "disrespect" anyone - teammates, opponents, other superstars - it's sad; they've been so coddled for so long they lack toughness and intensity.

Magic fought his best friend in basketball on the court during the finals, Bird fought Magic and half the lakers during the finals.

Case in Point for the old school guys:

Lebron to Arenas before 2 key free throws in the playoffs: "These are pretty big shots".

Jordan to forget the player same situation: "You're a gutless a--hole and you'll miss both of these".

NBA'ers today are soft -

theuuord
08-21-2008, 02:41 PM
lol @ ANYONE saying Bird or Magic would not be able to play in today's game.

Like the rim suddenly shot up four feet or something.

It's ridiculous how many people put raw athleticism over actual basketball skills...

theuuord
08-21-2008, 02:43 PM
NBA'ers today are soft -

LOL. And let me guess, you're the weightlifting champion?

vigilantex69
08-21-2008, 02:54 PM
color doesn't matter. He would have been great no matter what. You can't find anyone that is like him. Maybe a poor mans version, like Dirk. But he isn't tough enough, clutch enough, or well rounded enough. And Bird's passing ability was insane. If Kevin Love can continue cutting weight, there is a really poor man comparison

This is true but the NBA is so ghetto now, you could never find a player of Birds talent or values in todays game. Just for the same reason that nobody cares about the NBA anymore anyway? They don't hustle, they don't play defense, they just simply don't care about anything but their contacts and putting out a friggin rap CD with Lil John and the southside queers. And its a damn shame because there was alot of potential.

breedlove2drug
08-21-2008, 03:00 PM
NBA'ers today are soft -


That's a good joke

Hawkeye15
08-21-2008, 03:08 PM
Actually, I think them kicking his butt when he was younger is part of what made Jordan the player he was.

Of course it is. Jordan changed from an athletic talent, which we have plenty of now (Kobe, LeBron, whomever), and added basketball IQ from watching those guys. Part of the reason he was the best ever. He was able to understand basketball in a way nobody does today, and add his physical talent, and his sheer refusal to lose, and there you have it. But the fact is, the 1986 Celtics for example, would have beat any team today in a 7 game series

samxeyeam
08-21-2008, 03:23 PM
This is true but the NBA is so ghetto now, you could never find a player of Birds talent or values in todays game. Just for the same reason that nobody cares about the NBA anymore anyway? They don't hustle, they don't play defense, they just simply don't care about anything but their contacts and putting out a friggin rap CD with Lil John and the southside queers. And its a damn shame because there was alot of potential.

Just cuz of a few bad apples, doesnt mean ALL of the players are like that... Look at what kevin, paul, ray... All superstars and they all got along with each other and hustled on defense. They also have another guy named Rajon Rondo is a PRIME example of "hustling" and "playing with heart"... Manu Ginobilli, knowing he's gonna get hit and thrown on the ground STILL drives in to take a shot... He had a towel over his head and crying because he was soo upset in the WCF... thats heart... Did you watch atleast ONE game of the olympics? Its a shame a couple of bad apples ruined the NBA... damn shame...

barreleffact
08-21-2008, 05:19 PM
I think its funny when people say guys like Magic and Bird would never make in todays game. I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news, but the majority of NBA players today are trash. They are athletic and have next-to-no understanding of how to play the game. They are streetball guys that worry more about flashy highlight reals than winning. Mid 80's to mid 90's teams would destroy the current crop in the NBA. I'll take a slower less athletic group with a high basketball IQ over a bunch of high flyers.

and probably lose too. long story short, theplayers today arent dumb, and they are so much more athletic, that it would curb the odds considerably. You can not say athleticism doesnt give you a huge advantage. obviously, if it didnt, the game never would have changed. and dont degrade the players of today so much. i mean yes, the league is 80 sumthn percent black. in a previous post i said we want to be athletes so even if he was black we wouldnt want to be larry. most players that get paid well arent trash; they play their roles. people truley dont understand that a player is limited by his role- like tayshawn or marion. and lastly, yes having highlight reels is horrible for a sport that is for entertainment. i mean lets stop running backs from trucking people, lets stop shooting guards from dunking on bg men, lets stop baseball players from...well america's past time is just that. it aint enterrtaining to watch on tv at least. i wonder why

samxeyeam
08-21-2008, 05:47 PM
And to add to this, Luke Walton has a very high basketball IQ but doesnt have build... There's this is soccer player that has the same problem but its the other way around... We call it... Great Hardware but lacks Software...

barreleffact
08-21-2008, 05:49 PM
This is true but the NBA is so ghetto now, you could never find a player of Birds talent or values in todays game. Just for the same reason that nobody cares about the NBA anymore anyway? They don't hustle, they don't play defense, they just simply don't care about anything but their contacts and putting out a friggin rap CD with Lil John and the southside queers. And its a damn shame because there was alot of potential.

I want to respond in so many ways, Im short for words. In the end, I'm just shocked at the blatant racism some people still have. Basicly he's mad at us for being more athletic and changing the game. He claims we dont hustle, but how is that the case when we are still a step ahead of everyone on the court? maybe we do hustle, but its harder to guard us now because we are all faster and stronger. In your little racist eyes, the game had so much potential when there were only a few blacks right? probably like football, and in ways baseball. allow these ******s in and they all come. i mean these ******s love that demon rap music. ban it...country, techno, and metal are wway better. these ******s aint nuthing but gang bangin hoods right? say some of that **** to anyone in the league. or any blacks in your town if u have any. you should probably get your head out your *** and realize that it wasnt us that changed the game. it was commisioner stern. we didnt draft ourselves. gm's did. apparently they saw something someone with your limited vision couldnt. and nobody cares for the league? thats for a few reasons....racists like you, and a bad promotional team. nobody cares about NBA CARES. idc about them commercials. its a great idea tho. but what isnt is, Where___ happens...really. all teh video footage in this sport and you choose photos? you choose photos with nash and duncan hugging? yea, NBA, where gay happens...wtf? get a good promotional team, or even an average guy to say have the comercial be 30 seconds of people dunking on others. start it w shawn bradley just to degrade guys like you vigilante. but the sport is for entertainment right? then show some damned entertainment.

and mods- yea i spoke somewhat out of line, but if you block or ban me and do nuthin to him you are just as racist as they and forget it. i wouldnt want to be on a forum like that anyway. some panzy *** decides to basically say remember when the world was good, and we had them colored is check. remmeber slavery, or the 60's when they were free but had no rights. remember the solid south, etc? i mean wow....seriously

Nighthawk
08-21-2008, 07:27 PM
I want to respond in so many ways, Im short for words. In the end, I'm just shocked at the blatant racism some people still have. Basicly he's mad at us for being more athletic and changing the game. He claims we dont hustle, but how is that the case when we are still a step ahead of everyone on the court? maybe we do hustle, but its harder to guard us now because we are all faster and stronger. In your little racist eyes, the game had so much potential when there were only a few blacks right? probably like football, and in ways baseball. allow these ******s in and they all cme. i mean these ******s love that demon rap music. ban it...country, techno, and metal are wway better. these ******s aint nuthing but gang bangin hoods right? say some of that **** to anyone in the league. or any blacks in your town if u have any. you should probably get your head out your *** and realize that it wasnt us that changed the game. it was commisioner stern we didnt draft ourselves. gm's did. apparently they saw something someone with your limited vision couldnt. and nobody cares for the league? thats for a few reasons....racists like you, and a bad promotional team. nobody cares and NBA CARES. idc about them commercials. its a great idea tho. but what isnt is, Where___ happens...really. all teh video footage in this sport and you choose photos? you choose photos with nash and duncan hugging? yea, NBA, where gay happens...wtf? get a good promotional team, or even an average guy to say have the comercial be 30 seconds of people dunking on others. start it w shawn bradley just to degrade guys like you vigilante. but the sport is for entertainment right? then show some damned entertainment.

and mods- yea i spoke somewhat out of line, but if you block or ban me and do nuthin to him you are just as racist as they and forget it. i wouldnt want to be on a forum like that anyway. some panzy *** decides to basically say remember when the world was good, and we had them colored is check. remmeber slaver, or the 60's when they were free but had no rights. remember the solid south, etc? i mean wow....seriously

Dude calm down, i think you took his words out of context. I some what agree with your points. But damn, you seem to be a little ticked at what he said huh..

DreamShaker
08-21-2008, 09:35 PM
Larry bird is Hedo and Magic is Boris Diaw............... its all an evolution, how we went from black and white tv to colored. I've seen alot of bird and magic games and they aren't all that impressive. They are slow, very unatheletic and can barely get off there feet. Players should just be compared to the era they play in. I would bet alot of money that Wilt would never score 100 and average all those crazy stats in todays game. The league is tooooooo talent today.

Yaknow Nash, Dirk, Duncan, and Billups have all won some sort of MVP this decade....and none of them were much more if at all more athletic than Bird and Magic.....

DreamShaker
08-21-2008, 09:36 PM
I want to respond in so many ways, Im short for words. In the end, I'm just shocked at the blatant racism some people still have. Basicly he's mad at us for being more athletic and changing the game. He claims we dont hustle, but how is that the case when we are still a step ahead of everyone on the court? maybe we do hustle, but its harder to guard us now because we are all faster and stronger. In your little racist eyes, the game had so much potential when there were only a few blacks right? probably like football, and in ways baseball. allow these ******s in and they all cme. i mean these ******s love that demon rap music. ban it...country, techno, and metal are wway better. these ******s aint nuthing but gang bangin hoods right? say some of that **** to anyone in the league. or any blacks in your town if u have any. you should probably get your head out your *** and realize that it wasnt us that changed the game. it was commisioner stern we didnt draft ourselves. gm's did. apparently they saw something someone with your limited vision couldnt. and nobody cares for the league? thats for a few reasons....racists like you, and a bad promotional team. nobody cares and NBA CARES. idc about them commercials. its a great idea tho. but what isnt is, Where___ happens...really. all teh video footage in this sport and you choose photos? you choose photos with nash and duncan hugging? yea, NBA, where gay happens...wtf? get a good promotional team, or even an average guy to say have the comercial be 30 seconds of people dunking on others. start it w shawn bradley just to degrade guys like you vigilante. but the sport is for entertainment right? then show some damned entertainment.

and mods- yea i spoke somewhat out of line, but if you block or ban me and do nuthin to him you are just as racist as they and forget it. i wouldnt want to be on a forum like that anyway. some panzy *** decides to basically say remember when the world was good, and we had them colored is check. remmeber slaver, or the 60's when they were free but had no rights. remember the solid south, etc? i mean wow....seriously

I thinbk you both need to calm down by alot.....

BigSteve
08-21-2008, 09:48 PM
Its funny barreleffact that his comments are considered racist by you, when your posts on here have been you explaining that black athletes are better than white and it is insulting to them to be compared to their white counterparts. How is that not a racist view point? In your post answering mine you claimed that 80% of the league is black, and you then used it as a point of reference implying that I was saying black athletes have low basketball IQ's. I said nothing of the kind. In fact, alot of the great players I talk about in these topics with great fundamentals are black. You can preach till your blue in the face that athleticism is more important than having solid fundamentals. Then again you could also look at the majority of great players from every era and see that they for the most part had some of the highest basketball IQ's combined with their athleticism. Thats what made them great and other players forgettable. Don't look to make things a arguement of race when it clearly was not meant to be.

Red_Sox_89
08-21-2008, 09:55 PM
I think he's not compared to those guys cuz he was so plain. He went out there, did his job VERY well, but wasn't flashy about it.

dre1990
08-21-2008, 10:16 PM
dIRK'S CLOSE

97'bulls
08-21-2008, 10:32 PM
Because he was unique, nobody else really resembles him

BRADfromOZ
08-21-2008, 10:33 PM
Maybe because there hasn't been anyone since Bird who really can be compared to him. When comparing scoring and ability to turn games around single handedly bring out the Jordan comparisons. All aspects of ball handling, Magic. But who has any serious shooting ability to deserve to be compared to Bird?

Hawkeye15
08-21-2008, 10:42 PM
and probably lose too. long story short, theplayers today arent dumb, and they are so much more athletic, that it would curb the odds considerably. You can not say athleticism doesnt give you a huge advantage. obviously, if it didnt, the game never would have changed. and dont degrade the players of today so much. i mean yes, the league is 80 sumthn percent black. in a previous post i said we want to be athletes so even if he was black we wouldnt want to be larry. most players that get paid well arent trash; they play their roles. people truley dont understand that a player is limited by his role- like tayshawn or marion. and lastly, yes having highlight reels is horrible for a sport that is for entertainment. i mean lets stop running backs from people, lets stop shooting guards from dunking on bg men, lets stop baseball players from...well america's past time is just that. it aint enterrtaining to watch on tv at least. i wonder why

Dr J was as good of an athlete as anyone playing today. So was Connie Hawkins. Moses Malone was as strong as Shaq. Those players are not from 1954. They still equate today. I get the fact that sports evolve, and if size, speed, and strength are a factor, modern era is better. That being said, the greats from earlier era's would still be great. Do I think Bill Russell would do what he did in 1960 now? No. I still think Bird would be a 26-10-5 player, with rings. Athleticism is not everything, as proved by our mulitple failures in international games.

Hawkeye15
08-21-2008, 10:43 PM
dIRK'S CLOSE

when Dirk grows a pair, maybe

Hawkeye15
08-21-2008, 10:45 PM
He was not athletic or quick...the game has changed completely from when he played and now. He is about as athletic as Jerome James....back then, maybe his athleticism and speed was considered good, but today it would not even be considered average.

do you mean vertical, or lateral quickness? Then yes. However, his hands were as fast as anyone todays, and his anticipation, which can not be taught, was of the highest level. Hand eye coordination as well. Basically, I think Gerald Green would have had a major problem guarding Larry. And isn't Green a great athlete in your opinion????? Think about it before you bring playground attributes into the conversation

Nighthawk
08-21-2008, 11:16 PM
when Dirk grows a pair, maybe


:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Raidaz4Life
08-21-2008, 11:57 PM
Larry just had such a unique combination of fundamentals, hustle, leadership, and shooting ability that it would be a miracle for someone to ever mimic his style

barreleffact
08-22-2008, 01:32 AM
Its funny barreleffact that his comments are considered racist by you, when your posts on here have been you explaining that black athletes are better than white and it is insulting to them to be compared to their white counterparts. How is that not a racist view point? In your post answering mine you claimed that 80% of the league is black, and you then used it as a point of reference implying that I was saying black athletes have low basketball IQ's. I said nothing of the kind. In fact, alot of the great players I talk about in these topics with great fundamentals are black. You can preach till your blue in the face that athleticism is more important than having solid fundamentals. Then again you could also look at the majority of great players from every era and see that they for the most part had some of the highest basketball IQ's combined with their athleticism. Thats what made them great and other players forgettable. Don't look to make things a arguement of race when it clearly was not meant to be.

its cool man. its just the way it was said. when you say stuff like streetball players and all they care about is highlight reels, i mean what do you generally think about. i wasnt offended by your stuff tho. the other guy, i was furious in all honesty. yours i was just ready to argue. lol. but im not saying that our not liking to be compared to other races isnt racist. it is, but its the truth. however, there are a lot iof other races that can do some amazing things in basketball and all sorts of sports so in that respect im not racist. i said if bird was black, we wouldnt want to be compared to him physically trying to negate that race was the only thing. also, i actually do think the game focuses too much on athleticism, however a great body always helps and can make up for so many deficiencies. thats my biggest thing with IQ vs athleticism. plus you have natural bodily limits, you can always improve your ball IQ with experience

barreleffact
08-22-2008, 01:40 AM
Dr J was as good of an athlete as anyone playing today. So was Connie Hawkins. Moses Malone was as strong as Shaq. Those players are not from 1954. They still equate today. I get the fact that sports evolve, and if size, speed, and strength are a factor, modern era is better. That being said, the greats from earlier era's would still be great. Do I think Bill Russell would do what he did in 1960 now? No. I still think Bird would be a 26-10-5 player, with rings. Athleticism is not everything, as proved by our mulitple failures in international games.

as a whole, other eras wouldnt cut it today athleticly. of course there were a few that woudl still be great, but our bodies are so much better now that a normal athlete now would be seen much higher back then. but thats time. in a few years lebron might be average ya know? but about the international failures, i cant say too much except larry brown isnt the right coach for a young team and the team was poorly constructed. i mean lebron wade and melo were rookies and expected tocompete with the bests. plus TEAMWORK had a lot to do with it. if you take a group that has played together for years but isnt that great, they can beat a team that is freshly put together and more talented. if everyone on the court knows what the other 4 guys on their team are gonna do, the game becomes much easier, and we didnt have that before. then again, the spurs are slow and win every year. lol. but IMO the league sped up and drafts for athletic purposes for a reason. most likely because the game can be learned but we have our natural bodily limits

cahawk
08-22-2008, 02:13 AM
Larry Bird was all about substance, not much sizzle.
He was the quintessential blue collar player.

He is hard to compare, I did not think much of him being a Laker fan, but after watching him in so many big games I came to appreciate him.
And I don't really have another player to compare him to.

It's like Barry Sanders in football, I just have never seen another player like him. You could stop him at the line 15 times and have him still gain 150+ yards and beat you.

barreleffact
08-22-2008, 02:23 AM
do you mean vertical, or lateral quickness? Then yes. However, his hands were as fast as anyone todays, and his anticipation, which can not be taught, was of the highest level. Hand eye coordination as well. Basically, I think Gerald Green would have had a major problem guarding Larry. And isn't Green a great athlete in your opinion????? Think about it before you bring playground attributes into the conversation

Can we choose someone a lot better to argue with than gerald green? Green cant even stay on a team. Im not overlooking your point, esp because i think bird would still score and rebound in the league, but please dont use him to make a valid argument. He reminds me of james white. A guy with all the athleticism in the world but sadly, cant shape it.

royalswine
08-22-2008, 02:31 AM
I don't know if anyone remembers this, but I specifically remember Bill Walton saying that Peja was becoming a Bird type players years ago before the constant injuries. This was when he was a King and Walton (although at times he makes me laugh) would get into the terrible habit of calling Peja's shots. It was fairly funny when he missed.

codes238
08-22-2008, 02:39 AM
i think boris diaw reminds me a lot of bird in soem ways, besides the fact that he cant shoot and has no balls... mike miller and adam morrison both made sense except those guys arent nearly the playmakers, defenders or rebounders that bird was... thats the thing, people say bird isnt a top 5 player of all time because he wasnt athletic?!? what do they base this notion on? the fact that he coldnt do 360 tomahawk dunks? bird was an insanely good playmaker and shooter (mid-range and 3)... he was an excellent rebounder and defender... he had great leadership and charisma... thats why therell neevr be another larry bird, its hard to mis all that in one player...

ahua
08-22-2008, 01:31 PM
Wow. I mean really wow. I'm gonna bypass the whole race and racism issue that was brought into this and address some of the comments on the merits of Bird, his greatness and his era's players and their ability to compete in today's NBA.

First, Larry Bird for as much as I couldn't stand him was a great great player. Was he the most athletic guy out there? By no means. However, the game of basketball is a primarily cerebral game that can be made somewhat easier if one possesses dominant athleticism. The catch is that such athleticism does little for the player possessing it if they do not have a superior understanding of how to properly play the game. The NBA today (like in other eras) is littered with players who were drafted on their athleticism and potential who turned out to be huge busts and disappointments. The list is long and familiar from #1 selections on down the line. There are all kinds of players from every era who were supposed to be sure things but lacked the combination of things that make a player great. Michael Jordan famously said that the game of basketball is about understanding it. That it is a mental game. Check out some quotes from some of the game's greatest players. They clearly show that what made them great was their approach and mind for the the game and for winning not only on the court but in life. In my opinion, only a fool could honestly suggest that players like Magic, Bird, Jordan, Russell and Dr. J could not compete and dominate in today's NBA. They had what it took to win, and that is why they won. It doesn't matter when they played. There may be more superior athletes in today's game (although I don't believe that is the case) but the greats are the greats for reasons reaching far beyond athleticism.


So much of becoming a good athlete involves bringing other things to the table, other than physical skills. It involves intelligence, it involves many of the things that you learn during the process of being educated. How to analyze, how to assess, how to equate, how to reason.
Julius Erving

The key to success is to keep growing in all areas of life - mental, emotional, spiritual, as well as physical.
Julius Erving


Do not let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
John Wooden


First, master the fundamentals!
Larry Bird


There are plenty of teams in every sport that have great players and never win titles. Most of the time, those players aren't willing to sacrifice for the greater good of the team. The funny thing is, in the end, their unwillingness to sacrifice only makes individual goals more difficult to achieve. One thing I believe to the fullest is that if you think and achieve as a team, the individual accolades will take care of themselves. Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence win championships.
Michael Jordan


Concentration and mental toughness are the margins of victory.
Bill Russell


I have no individual goals. We play for one reason and that's to win the title. Practice is more important than the games, and I will practice when I'm hurt, when 95 percent of the players in this league would sit out. I expect all of you to do the same thing. You will follow my lead.
Michael Jordan


Champions do not become champions when they win an event, but in the hours, weeks, and months, and years they spend preparing for it. The victorious performance itself is merely a demonstration of their championship character.
Michael Jordan


I've always believed that if you put in the work, the results will come. I don't do things half-heartedly. Because I know if I do, then I can expect half-hearted results.
Michael Jordan


When I was young, I never wanted to leave the court until I got things exactly correct.
Larry Bird


A winner is someone who recognizes his God-given talents, works his tail off to develop them into skills, and uses these skills to accomplish his goals.
Larry Bird


Leadership is getting players to believe in you. If you tell a teammate you're ready to play as tough as you're able to, you'd better go out there and do it. Players will see right through a phony. And they can tell when you're not giving it all you've got.
Larry Bird

There are many more great things the great ones have said that speak for themselves, but I am going to end this with a personal story. I'm obviously not one of the greats. I didn't get any further than playing some college ball. I can however share a story that gives credence to my claims. When I was going into my senior year of high school I got a scholarship to play at a camp at which John Wooden would appear. There were ex-pros who were consulting and current college players who coached us on a day to day basis. One night I forgot to change out of my "indoor" shoes and left them at the gym. I went back to get them and found the ex-pros (who were in their 50's) and college coaches playing against the current college players. There was on average a 25 to 30 year difference in age between the players on each team. The college guys needed one more and asked if I would run with them. As you can imagine I jumped at the chance. What happened next taught me a ton about the game of basketball. We (the young guys who were clearly more athletic, in better shape, more practiced, could jump higher, shoot better, run faster and longer) got killed in 3 straight games. The old guys schooled us so bad that we were left stunned. The college guys were not bad players either. Most were starters for D-1 schools. We lost because despite every advantage in age, fitness, current practice, athletic ability, and size the older guys understood the game far far far better than we did. This is the same advantage that Larry Bird had over his competition during his day. He was a great shooter, but it was his basketball understanding, and leadership and unshakable will that made him one of the greatest players of any era. I could not stand the Celtics or Bird and that stupid mustache, but he beat my Bulls and just about anybody else because he was great. Bird was great because of his mind.

BigSteve
08-22-2008, 02:28 PM
Awesome post.

barreleffact
08-22-2008, 05:40 PM
very tru...basketball is so multidimensional. athleticism is a lot like you said...a measure of potential and most turn out to be busts because they dont realize their potentials mentally. i can a coach in high school who stressed that like everything else basketball is 80% mental and 20% physical. the mental entailed everything from ball IQ, determination, teamwork, attitude(keeping a cool head and fighting pressure), etc. in no particular order. I do think this post did try to over play athleticism and IQ w/o taking into account all the other parts that were working with Bird and the greats. Teamwork esp is more important IMO maybe than most of the others. When you have a complete unit who knows the tendencies of the other 4 and that they all understand their roles and where they will be, the game is a lot easier and becomes more routine

SLY WILLIAMS
08-22-2008, 06:33 PM
As a Knicks fan I couldnt stand Larry Bird but he was the 2nd best player I have ever seen and the most clutch. His confidence and basketball IQ was off the charts. Even Jordan admitted he would get toasted when he tried to talk trash with Larry. I have seen several guys come and go that people hoped would be the next Bird.
Comparing Dirk to Larry is like comparing Vince to MJ. They may have some similarities but the original is far better than the sequel. :)

Beno7500
08-22-2008, 06:50 PM
He was so good you can't compare him.

IndyRealist
08-22-2008, 11:35 PM
The short list of what made Larry Bird great:
1) Killer instinct. What player short of MJ was better at last second heroics? Maybe Reggie Miller. Maybe.
2) Passing. Bird defined the point-forward. His court awareness was amazing for 6'9".
3) Hustle. Larry dived for loose balls, pressured full court, and ran out on fast breaks.
4) Leadership. He had the very rare ability to make the players around him better. Four, maybe five players in the NBA right now have it.
5) Basketball IQ. Bird understood the nuances of the game. Freakish athletes tend to rely on their athleticism, and never really learn how to play the game. Bird was not a freakish athlete to begin with, and had to play smarter and harder than the athletes to compete. He was all-defensive second team, without an ounce of athleticism to him.
6) Scoring. Lights out from the three point line, the baseline, in the paint, posting up, fading away, shooting free throws, shooting half-court buzzer beaters.

Dirk has #3, #5, and #6. He's half way there. If anyone should draw comparisons to Larry Bird, it should be Tim Duncan.

The Blue Baller
08-22-2008, 11:58 PM
Larry's not white... Larry's clear