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View Full Version : With Mo Will, should Cavs S&T for VC?



Prospect#13
08-14-2008, 03:31 AM
I remember reading an article that had Nets offering VC to the Cavs for Wally and a few picks, but the Cavs rejected it because Wally was playing on an exp contract. I didn't think the Cavs would go far w/ VC and Lebron teaming together and agreed the Cavs should have rejected the offer,but now with Mo Williams on board for the Cavs, do you guys think Danny Ferry shoudl reconsider the offer? Or would Nets even want to make that deal given the fact that Lebron would now have a potential champ contender to woo him into staying with Cleveland?

-Discuss. Is VC+Mo good enough to pusht he Cleveland back to the top? They hung in there vs the Celtics before they swarmed Lebron and could hold their own against most of the top teams. So what are your opinions?

Rhyming Rebel
08-14-2008, 03:58 AM
If the Cavs could get VC they better go for it.

reb422
08-14-2008, 06:57 AM
Absolutely Not! The expiring contract of Wally is golden. That contract is impressive now but will be twice as impressive to a struggling team around the midseason mark. In my opinion VC is just a shell of what he used to be. The Cavs next few moves have to be flawless in order to keep LeBron down the road. Using one of our biggest assets (Wally's exp. contract) to sign an older, often injured, and far less explosive player like VC is too much of a risk. I would much rather be patient and wait till around the all-star break and then find that Pau Gasol type deal that the Lakers made last year.

CHief_0_o_Wahoo
08-14-2008, 07:17 AM
Absolutely Not! The expiring contract of Wally is golden. That contract is impressive now but will be twice as impressive to a struggling team around the midseason mark. In my opinion VC is just a shell of what he used to be. The Cavs next few moves have to be flawless in order to keep LeBron down the road. Using one of our biggest assets (Wally's exp. contract) to sign an older, often injured, and far less explosive player like VC is too much of a risk. I would much rather be patient and wait till around the all-star break and then find that Pau Gasol type deal that the Lakers made last year.

I agree, we need to explore all options with Wally's contract. He is to valuable not to.

By the way it wasn't the Nets who offered Vince Carter, but it was the Cavaliers. Cavaliers offered Wally straight up for him and they thought about it, but they ended up rejecting it.

IndiansFan337
08-14-2008, 09:34 AM
VC is better than any other option we have at SG, but I believe if the Cavs wait this out they can get a better piece in exchange for Wally. If not, the option for VC should still be there. I don't see another team stepping up & taking him off their hands between now & the deadline, unless NJ would accept Zach Randolph in return.

CHief_0_o_Wahoo
08-14-2008, 02:16 PM
VC is better than any other option we have at SG, but I believe if the Cavs wait this out they can get a better piece in exchange for Wally. If not, the option for VC should still be there. I don't see another team stepping up & taking him off their hands between now & the deadline, unless NJ would accept Zach Randolph in return.

Which is a good point, if he is the best option come trade deadline to we pull the trigger on a trade with the Nets?

SeoulBeatz
08-14-2008, 03:54 PM
cavs should def do this. Vince Carter still has gas left in the tank, he just hasnt been motivated because he's been on ****** teams.

trade wally (expiring) and a first for him and im sure that would do the trick because the nets are rebuilding.

Mo Williams
Vince Carter
Lebron James
Big Ben
Big Z

West, Boobie, Varejao off the bench

thats a backcourt to fear.

CHief_0_o_Wahoo
08-14-2008, 04:04 PM
cavs should def do this. Vince Carter still has gas left in the tank, he just hasnt been motivated because he's been on ****** teams.

trade wally (expiring) and a first for him and im sure that would do the trick because the nets are rebuilding.

Mo Williams
Vince Carter
Lebron James
Big Ben
Big Z

West, Boobie, Varejao off the bench

thats a backcourt to fear.

It might be the best lineup on paper.

Cavs_Fan24
08-14-2008, 04:59 PM
i think getting Carter would definitely help us out, but you have to consider our other options.

If we trade Wally (and maybe some picks or w.e to get this deal done) for VC then we obviously dont have Wally's valuable contract anymore and we can use that money to either sign someone next year in the off-season, or save it to help to get LeBron back.

Right now, it sounds good. But future wise, idk if it'd be the best choice.

fire2last
08-14-2008, 05:44 PM
Why would NJ trade VC to the Cavs? Clearly NJ is trying to make room for a run at LBJ in 2010 but James said he would stay if CLE would put together a respectable team. If NJ traded VC to CLE then wouldn't LBJ have enough faith in CLE to re-sign? Plus NJ would have traded away all their stars and they would be wanting LBJ to come to a team that would need some rebuilding.
I just don't think this makes any sense for NJ to pull the trigger on this. Though I wouldn't mind seeing VC in a Cavs jersey.

CHief_0_o_Wahoo
08-14-2008, 06:39 PM
Why would NJ trade VC to the Cavs? Clearly NJ is trying to make room for a run at LBJ in 2010 but James said he would stay if CLE would put together a respectable team. If NJ traded VC to CLE then wouldn't LBJ have enough faith in CLE to re-sign? Plus NJ would have traded away all their stars and they would be wanting LBJ to come to a team that would need some rebuilding.
I just don't think this makes any sense for NJ to pull the trigger on this. Though I wouldn't mind seeing VC in a Cavs jersey.

Honestly at this point i think Ferry is granting every wish he wants. So when you NJ is denying us of Carter it doesn't matter. We still have the attractive pieces that will be able to get us another player and thats a fact.

He may be better or he may be worst then Carter, but as far as I know Williams is a great 2nd option.

monster_mash
08-14-2008, 07:21 PM
Ok...When we traded for Ben and Wally, Ferry knew that if they ended up sucking, they would still have value (Wally's 13m contract this year) (Ben's 17m contract next year). Would you look at Carters contract. It has 4 yrs left on it. That would F us in A in the long term. We can't get caught up in the moment and pull a Florida Marlins and buy a championship 1 yr and then have a wrecked team for the next 5 or 6. If we are going to do this, we need to do this right. The right way is sticking to our guns for the first few weeks of the season and see how this team meshes. Watching the other teams and seeing which of them are not living up to expectations. The wrong way is to trade for an aging star who has been injury prone. If VC's contract was only 2 years long then I'm all for it. But at 4 years and 13m+ I say hell naw.

Also, despite what you guys think, If LBJ doesn't bolt for Europe, I really think the Cavs can be big players with that free agent crop. With all the cap room we can/should have, we could have a real chance of doing what the Clippers couldn't. Sign a huge free agent then go over the cap to re-sign LBJ for the max.

I'd honestly rather have Randolph more than VC. Bad contract and baggage and all. Just hire a few undercover security guards to cover west 6th street bars and he might be ok.

jetsfan28
08-14-2008, 07:23 PM
The Cavs will be able to trade Wally for much, much more at the deadline

fabian11593
08-14-2008, 07:30 PM
Pull the trade.
Williams
Carter
James
Wallace
Ilgauskas
sick lineup....

CHief_0_o_Wahoo
08-14-2008, 07:31 PM
Pull the trade.
Williams
Carter
James
Wallace
Ilgauskas
sick lineup....

We can do better..

EdTheRevelator
08-14-2008, 07:45 PM
Ok...When we traded for Ben and Wally, Ferry knew that if they ended up sucking, they would still have value (Wally's 13m contract this year) (Ben's 17m contract next year). Would you look at Carters contract. It has 4 yrs left on it. That would F us in A in the long term. We can't get caught up in the moment and pull a Florida Marlins and buy a championship 1 yr and then have a wrecked team for the next 5 or 6. If we are going to do this, we need to do this right. The right way is sticking to our guns for the first few weeks of the season and see how this team meshes. Watching the other teams and seeing which of them are not living up to expectations. The wrong way is to trade for an aging star who has been injury prone. If VC's contract was only 2 years long then I'm all for it. But at 4 years and 13m+ I say hell naw.

Also, despite what you guys think, If LBJ doesn't bolt for Europe, I really think the Cavs can be big players with that free agent crop. With all the cap room we can/should have, we could have a real chance of doing what the Clippers couldn't. Sign a huge free agent then go over the cap to re-sign LBJ for the max.

I'd honestly rather have Randolph more than VC. Bad contract and baggage and all. Just hire a few undercover security guards to cover west 6th street bars and he might be ok.

I was with you 100% until the Randolph stuff. Although the security guards thing was funny.:p

salsyourpal
08-14-2008, 07:53 PM
actually it was the cavs who offered that trade and the nets turned it down. as a nets fan....its sad to say that vc is the only reason i would watch a nets game and i think thorn had that in mind when he turned down the trade.

monster_mash
08-14-2008, 08:02 PM
I know I might have gotten carried away with the Randolph stuff, but I'd really like to have another solid/starting big man that an aging guard. If we keep Delonte we have a young core of guards. With the Av situation up in the air after this year, we have 2 aging bigs and 2 young unproven bigs.

Sbank
08-14-2008, 08:04 PM
The Cavs will be able to trade Wally for much, much more at the deadline

That's what we have to be patient about trading with Wally. I would wait near dead line and trade him when his contract and his value is up there.

Jay22Redd
08-15-2008, 03:30 AM
Pull the trade.
Williams
Carter
James
Wallace
Ilgauskas
sick lineup....

Looks good. Maybe even ECFs good

roo3flash
08-15-2008, 04:09 AM
theres no way that the cavs would do this...it doesnt make sense...getting vince would be good for them for the moment but to look in the future they dont have any real young talent...big z and ben are old and boobie and anderson are not the answer...theyll be the worst team in history of the nba without lebron...they wouldnt have ne one to put up even 15 points a night by getting vince destroys their future cause they cant compete to get lebron or ne other big names during the 2010

J-Relo
08-15-2008, 04:39 AM
you are saying that keeping those expiring contracts to have cap to sign James is good, but do you think he will sign for a team that did nothing else to become better, that did everything to keep him, but not to get better and win!?

i really don't think that if team won't improve Lebron will sign... i think he would rather try to play in other teams, that would do smth more than just keeping him... if Cavs won't have championship run forget about Lebron...

CHief_0_o_Wahoo
08-15-2008, 11:16 AM
you are saying that keeping those expiring contracts to have cap to sign James is good, but do you think he will sign for a team that did nothing else to become better, that did everything to keep him, but not to get better and win!?

i really don't think that if team won't improve Lebron will sign... i think he would rather try to play in other teams, that would do smth more than just keeping him... if Cavs won't have championship run forget about Lebron...

Wake Up!

We just got Mo Williams, we are still bound to make some kind of trade. Mo is with us for a while and that's not going to change as long as he doesn't under perform.

I am pretty sure LeBron is staying now, I am not worried at all. I feel that we will make another move maybe this off-season or maybe during the season, and that will lock up LeBron in 2010.

Dahoodlifez
08-15-2008, 11:30 AM
I think we wait. I'm convinced that we can find better a little donw the road. for instance how is Mike miller going to fit into the young look T-wolves. Or with the abbundance of perimeter players what is to say that Al Harrington or Stephen Jackson won't be the odd men out in Golden State. All of those guys are better than VC in the cavs system. Do we really want an injury prone slasher who needs the ball in the hands to make a play. Can anyone say Larry hughes all over again

CHief_0_o_Wahoo
08-15-2008, 12:50 PM
I think we wait. I'm convinced that we can find better a little donw the road. for instance how is Mike miller going to fit into the young look T-wolves. Or with the abbundance of perimeter players what is to say that Al Harrington or Stephen Jackson won't be the odd men out in Golden State. All of those guys are better than VC in the cavs system. Do we really want an injury prone slasher who needs the ball in the hands to make a play. Can anyone say Larry hughes all over again

I wouldn't mind Stephen Jackson and Harrington now:

Mo Williams/Gibson/West
Jackson/West/Gibson/
LeBron/Harrington
Wallace/Harrington/Hickson
Z/Andy/Hickson

Jackson probably wouldn't average 20ppg, but he would be a nice addition as a defender and a tough player.

Harrington doesn't play defense, but he can be a nice scoring threat off the bench.

I think this lineup would be perfect, we don't need another 20ppg+ kind of guy with enough offense coming from, LeBron, Williams and Z. So adding a guy like Jackson I think would work well.

IndiansFan337
08-15-2008, 01:26 PM
Which is a good point, if he is the best option come trade deadline to we pull the trigger on a trade with the Nets?

Yes, but it's highly unlikely that we won't get a better offer for Wally's expiring $13 million contract.

That's why we simply have to be patient.

CHief_0_o_Wahoo
08-15-2008, 01:28 PM
Yes, but it's highly unlikely that we won't get a better offer for Wally's expiring $13 million contract.

That's why we simply have to be patient.

Alright sounds good I was just wondering what other people thought about in that situation.

23LBJCleBrowns
08-15-2008, 06:24 PM
I would do the trade for stephen jackson sounds like a good trade. I like it. Our line-up would be sick and we would much depth, and we would be serious contenders

EdTheRevelator
08-15-2008, 07:07 PM
"Patience" is indeed the key word for Danny Ferry. He better not **** this up.

Prospect#13
08-15-2008, 10:59 PM
I'm impressed that James carried the Cavs this far in the past few years. They may not be legitimate contenders but cmon....Hughes was his right hand man yet James was able to take them far into the finals, before the spurs swarmed him with 2 or 3 defenders. Same thing can be said about the Celtics. Cavs took took them to seven games. I was very impressed. With Mo Williams and VC you guys still don't believe they can go to the finals againthis year?

Edit- VC and MO gives James the spacing he needs to operate. That's the reason why he fell against the Spurs and Celtics. He passes one defender
he goes through another set of layers in the inside. KG or TD. He dishes it out to his teammaets and hopes they hit those shots and sometimse they just don't go through.

James operates best when he has free space, especially since his footwork needs to improve and he needs to learn some post up moves.

CHief_0_o_Wahoo
08-15-2008, 11:36 PM
I'm impressed that James carried the Cavs this far in the past few years. They may not be legitimate contenders but cmon....Hughes was his right hand man yet James was able to take them far into the finals, before the spurs swarmed him with 2 or 3 defenders. Same thing can be said about the Celtics. Cavs took took them to seven games. I was very impressed. With Mo Williams and VC you guys still don't believe they can go to the finals againthis year?

Edit- VC and MO gives James the spacing he needs to operate. That's the reason why he fell against the Spurs and Celtics. He passes one defender
he goes through another set of layers in the inside. KG or TD. He dishes it out to his teammaets and hopes they hit those shots and sometimse they just don't go through.

James operates best when he has free space, especially since his footwork needs to improve and he needs to learn some post up moves.

Now if we were talking about spacing I would rather us go hard after a Dunleavy (which I still do) or a Mike Miller.

I think a perimeter defender would help us tremendously, it would take a lot off of LeBron's back on the defensive end.
Ak-47 would be the best option for that. Stephen Jackson is pretty tough un D.
What kind of D does, Dunleavy and Mike Miller lay down?

fire2last
08-16-2008, 06:05 PM
Honestly at this point i think Ferry is granting every wish he wants. So when you NJ is denying us of Carter it doesn't matter. We still have the attractive pieces that will be able to get us another player and thats a fact.

He may be better or he may be worst then Carter, but as far as I know Williams is a great 2nd option.


I'm not a Nets fan, I'm a Cavs fan...have been all my life. I was just trying to point out that everyone is looking at this from a CLE standpoint and not a NJ one. It seems highly unlikely and very foolish for NJ to make this trade.

CHief_0_o_Wahoo
08-17-2008, 01:24 AM
I'm not a Nets fan, I'm a Cavs fan...have been all my life. I was just trying to point out that everyone is looking at this from a CLE standpoint and not a NJ one. It seems highly unlikely and very foolish for NJ to make this trade.

Probably, but it may seem just as foolish on our part. His contract is not good, no one knows how many games he will play. It's all very cloudy with Carter, so I don't think he is our best option even if the Nets were willing to give him up.

I would rather have a better contract, and a more durable player at the SG position as of now. I don't feel we need another offensive threat, I mean it would be nice to have a defensive player that can play solid from both end of the ball.

fabnfu2
08-17-2008, 04:50 AM
i think the cavs would love to have vince but cant take on that much more money as far as luxury tax concerns for the next two seasons and really dont see the nets doing the deal b/c of the lebron factor and not giving him another star while he's in cleveland

IndiansFan337
08-18-2008, 09:02 AM
Now if we were talking about spacing I would rather us go hard after a Dunleavy (which I still do) or a Mike Miller.

I think a perimeter defender would help us tremendously, it would take a lot off of LeBron's back on the defensive end.
Ak-47 would be the best option for that. Stephen Jackson is pretty tough un D.
What kind of D does, Dunleavy and Mike Miller lay down?

Dunleavy & Miller are both shooters. Neither is known for there work on D. They aren't abysmal on D, but probably not above average either.

Cavs_Fan24
08-18-2008, 09:22 AM
Dunleavy & Miller are both shooters. Neither is known for there work on D. They aren't abysmal on D, but probably not above average either.

i would still like either of them on the team.

Mike Miller is a good defensive player, idk bout Dunleavy though..

CHief_0_o_Wahoo
08-18-2008, 11:48 AM
Dunleavy & Miller are both shooters. Neither is known for there work on D. They aren't abysmal on D, but probably not above average either.

I wasn't saying they were good at defense. I was pointing out the fact if we needed spacing we probably would go after those guys.

Then I said I would rather have a perimeter defender.

Cavs_Fan24
08-18-2008, 12:57 PM
well, odds are that we could get either cuz both teams are in the rebuilding process, and those guys have large contracts, and are begginning to age, but they're both still legit players that we should seriously consider.