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View Full Version : Tigers may cut payroll, trade Ordonez in '09



Dalionking
08-14-2008, 01:12 AM
Posted by Scott Warheit August 13, 2008 06:52AM

While some Detroit Tigers fans may have visions of the Tigers signing big names for the 2009 season (like potential free agents CC Sabathia or closer Francisco Rodriguez), the payroll of the Detroit Tigers may not increase like fans hope. In fact, Lynn Henning of the Detroit News reports the payroll is likely to decrease, and some fan favorites, including Magglio Ordonez, may be casualties.

Auugst 13, Detroit News: The front office has taken a couple direct hits from the boss, and shock waves have been felt all the way to manager Jim Leyland's office, which might have had something to do with Leyland's 20-minute verbal lashing of his team before a nightmare of a game Aug. 3 at Tampa Bay.

And what this season's disaster almost certainly will mean is that the Tigers will cut their astounding payroll by a heavy sum -- perhaps by $40 million or more.

Trading Ordonez for any future help could prove more than tempting, even if that were the only consideration. But dealing Ordonez also might be a mandate. An owner who went for it all in 2008 has learned, painfully, that a hefty payroll and World Series appearances aren't always one and the same.

DetTigers
08-14-2008, 02:54 AM
Yea I really don't see them getting rid of Ordonez unless they get a bunch of top prospects for him. I think if they can't get rid of sheff during the season they will move him in the off season or cut ties with him. Renteria will most likely not get picked up so he will be gone. Rogers pointless to resign him and will probably retire anyways unless Texas wants him again. Jones is likely done also. They can cut down the payroll in smaller ways which can add up getting rid of Ordonez just doesn't make much sense to me. I still can see them trying for C.C. Sabathia or Francisco Rodriguez (Especially try for F-Rod since we won't sign Jones but you never know with how much Leyland likes him) Hopefully Garcia will step up and pitch well enough where he can be a starter next year for us and I am hoping Willis does to but a lot of work ahead of him still. Some may not agree on me with this but I live by Toledo and go to Mud Hens games often and Freddy Guzman has a ton of speed he has 45 stolen bases his average is around .270 a few homers and decent RBI why not call him up in September and see if we can bat him lead off and move granderson down to third if Guzman shows he can do well in the lead off role with the Tigers why not make him our lead off guy for 09 just a thought.

Sheffies Chef
08-14-2008, 04:55 AM
Guzman was once upon a time a top prospect in the Padres orginization.

mark1125
08-14-2008, 07:31 AM
Posted by Scott Warheit August 13, 2008 06:52AM

While some Detroit Tigers fans may have visions of the Tigers signing big names for the 2009 season (like potential free agents CC Sabathia or closer Francisco Rodriguez), the payroll of the Detroit Tigers may not increase like fans hope. In fact, Lynn Henning of the Detroit News reports the payroll is likely to decrease, and some fan favorites, including Magglio Ordonez, may be casualties.

Auugst 13, Detroit News: The front office has taken a couple direct hits from the boss, and shock waves have been felt all the way to manager Jim Leyland's office, which might have had something to do with Leyland's 20-minute verbal lashing of his team before a nightmare of a game Aug. 3 at Tampa Bay.

And what this season's disaster almost certainly will mean is that the Tigers will cut their astounding payroll by a heavy sum -- perhaps by $40 million or more.

Trading Ordonez for any future help could prove more than tempting, even if that were the only consideration. But dealing Ordonez also might be a mandate. An owner who went for it all in 2008 has learned, painfully, that a hefty payroll and World Series appearances aren't always one and the same.


Unless they get a blown-away offer for Maggs, they need to keep him. He is one of the few Tigers who earned their pay this year.

Other than the obvious players to unload (Rogers, Jones, Renteria, and Sheff) I wouldn't be heart broken if they find a taker for Robertson and Guillen. I like Guillen, but his play is starting to decline and I think we could find a taker for his bat at this point.

stanpapi
08-14-2008, 09:26 AM
Aside from cutting payroll, they need to reshape the team. Ordonez is a great bat, no glove player, and we have enough of those. Trade him to a contender for some top prospects.

m2j3
08-14-2008, 09:29 AM
I really wouldn't be surprised if he is dealt. While he will still be a great hitter, he does get paid a lot so the Tigers might be better off just dealing him.

MSK55
08-14-2008, 09:50 AM
I doubt it. Like Mark said, it's going to take something huge to ship Maggs out of town.

IndiansFan337
08-14-2008, 10:48 AM
I don't see this happening. He is one of the guys who isn't underachieving on this club.

Cabrera obviously isn't going anywhere. Willis & Sheffield are untradeable. Graderson is not going anywhere. Verlander isn't going anywhere either.

So I guess that leave Polanco, Ordonez, & Guillen as 3 guys who could possibly be moved if the team decides to tear things apart.

They need more young SP's & a closer.

DetTigers
08-14-2008, 12:06 PM
I looked guzman up he had 15 stolen bases at Erie and 45 at Toledo I'd like to see him get a look right away that gives us a lot more speed that we desperatly need.

smarkow
08-14-2008, 04:13 PM
Aside from cutting payroll, they need to reshape the team. Ordonez is a great bat, no glove player, and we have enough of those. Trade him to a contender for some top prospects.

No, ordonez is not the best glove in the majors. but he's far from a "no glove player." He is the basically the only person that has earned his pay this season. I love Ordonez and really do not want to see him traded.

Polanco? i dont see how we can trade him. he's amazing at 2nd base, and the guy gets base hits. Granderson obviously isnt going anywhere. Cabrera not going anywhere.

As excited as i was to see the Tigers spending, its obviously disappointing, and the high payroll should have been taken into account for future years. But spending all this money and then saying that we're going to trade our best hitter, arguably, in Ordonez, is not the way to go. Having Ordonez and Cabrera batting together is scary and i don't want to see that broken up.

smarkow
08-14-2008, 04:23 PM
adding to my last post about how IMO, ordonez is not a bad fielder, here are some stats since joining detroit:
05: .993 FP, 1 error
06: .974 FP, 7 error
07: .996 FP, 1 error
08: .983 FP, 3 error

While those are not "stellar" numbers, they are above average.

stanpapi
08-14-2008, 04:55 PM
Look, Ordonez is close enough to no-glove. He has flashes of brilliance, yes, and I think he might even be a capable defensive player. But I believe it comes down to one of two things. He is either (A) afraid of re-injuring himself (as he did originally blow out his knee on a daredevil play or (B) he is a lollygagger. Hard as I've been on Magglio, I've come around, a bit. And obviously, he is a great hitter. And I'd love it if he were to become our DH. But I don't want him out there in right pulling up on shallow flies. And when's the last time you saw him so much as graze the wall? It's a tough call when it comes to him. It's a plus-minus thing, because whatever you gain with him on offense, you lose some of that on his fielding.

Granderson and Polanco, however, are two of the few untouchables. Verlander, too. As much for their ability as their citizenry. Verlanders numbers this year don't faze me. You look at the year Jack Morris went 6 and 18, and you blow that off, too.

Now is the time for the organization to clear out guys with issues. Means you also make a point of protecting all the good guys, guys you want to find a role for. I'd put Thames on the keep list as well as Gallaraga, Miner, Santiago, Bobby Seay, and Clete Thomas. It's not that these are your best guys, just that they're all solid Tigers you can find a role for, useful long-term players. Otherwise, when you acquire new people, the lesson here is that character be a top consideration. And hey, I'm not saying trade the rest, but I'm open to listening. Certainly, a fair number of people have got to go. For starters, I'm looking at guys who can't help in the field. If all they can do is hit. Like if they can't steal bases, lay down a clean bunt, either, then I'm really looking at them.

Sorry guys, this was a fancy Tiger's team. Talent and dollars, but no balls. It didn't work and to a certain extent, it will be somewhat dismantled by the end of next year's training camp. The old, fat, slow, and ugly thing has got to go, and my guess is that they will be somewhat ruthless about it as off-season sales are in very big trouble at this point.

smarkow
08-14-2008, 08:29 PM
i'm glad you're coming around a little bit with maggs play in the outfield. I agree, he's not an outstanding guy that you can't live without in the field. However, i'm willing to sacrafice the things he does poorly in the field for his bat. If we get another solid guy that can play RF, allowing Mags to DH, thats gravy. That said, I don't think his just above average defense means that we need to get rid of him for someone who can play RF. He plays RF just fine. and like i said, if he continues to hit the way he has been the past few years, i can take it. Its like Manny in the outfield. IMO, he's definitely worse in the outfield, AND he plays LF, however, there's no talk of moving him to DH, obviously, now that he's in the NL. of course, having Ortiz on your team who can't play any position would make it pretty tough to move Manny to DH, but even when ortiz was injured, manny was still in the field....moving on... i really like Mags and i think haveing Mags and Miggy back to back is a scary sight for anyone. As some have said, if we can find a real leadoff guy, it would be pretty cool to have Granderson batting third:
leadoff,
polanco
Granderson
Maggs
Miggy
Guillen....I love guillen, but if he needs to go, then fine. I really do like this guy though. Fielding has obviously slipped. but he's still underrated...just hasnt had the power numbers this year.

overload792001
08-14-2008, 10:18 PM
Yea I really don't see them getting rid of Ordonez unless they get a bunch of top prospects for him. I think if they can't get rid of sheff during the season they will move him in the off season or cut ties with him. Renteria will most likely not get picked up so he will be gone. Rogers pointless to resign him and will probably retire anyways unless Texas wants him again. Jones is likely done also. They can cut down the payroll in smaller ways which can add up getting rid of Ordonez just doesn't make much sense to me. I still can see them trying for C.C. Sabathia or Francisco Rodriguez (Especially try for F-Rod since we won't sign Jones but you never know with how much Leyland likes him) Hopefully Garcia will step up and pitch well enough where he can be a starter next year for us and I am hoping Willis does to but a lot of work ahead of him still. Some may not agree on me with this but I live by Toledo and go to Mud Hens games often and Freddy Guzman has a ton of speed he has 45 stolen bases his average is around .270 a few homers and decent RBI why not call him up in September and see if we can bat him lead off and move granderson down to third if Guzman shows he can do well in the lead off role with the Tigers why not make him our lead off guy for 09 just a thought.


Lets think about this logically...Maggs has the experience for the young guys like Clete Thomas, Brent Clevlen and others to learn from, not to mention, he still has pop in the bat..Yes, he's paid highly, but on a team of overpaid, underachievers, I'd gladly pay him what he is getting to be able to produce, even at his age, with his skill set for the outfield. No, he's not a speed demon like Granderson, but he plays a lot harder now than he did before the World Series run, and for a guy who wasn't expected to do much when he was signed initially from his injuries, I think he's "earned his stripes". If I was looking to drop people, Sheff would go first, then Renteria and Rogers. Guillen would be an interesting drop. I'd like to see the offers if he is put on the block. As far as signings go, I think with Galarraga coming on as a solid 1-2 with Verlander, that the starting rotation will be fine with Garcia (hopefully) moving into the rotation to join Bonderman, and potentially Zach Miner or a FA in the offseason (not Sabathia). Dontrelle is not the answer for the rotation..Didnt like him when he was dealt here, and still dont like him now. My choice would be to go hard after K-Rod, since Jones wont be back, Zumaya is likely not going to be a factor next year either, and Rodney is just flat out terrible. I'd like to see a bullpen showing Bobby Seay as the setup man for K-Rod. That would give a consistent lefty/fireball righty combo, which was what Zumaya was to be once unseating Jones. Guys, give Leyland and Dombrowski credit, they put the pieces in place..it was the players who didn't gel enough to be able to put together a second breakout year.

stanpapi
08-14-2008, 10:28 PM
I don't think you've got me right -- that's the thing, I don't trust him out there, and this is a bad fielding team in a huge ballpark, even by extreme NL standards. I don't love Thames in left either, but at least I trust him. I mean, know he'll go after it. They've got to take the size of the ballpark into consideration at some point as they reshape the team. It has to be a smarter, faster team.

definc13
08-14-2008, 11:44 PM
here's what id like the line up and rotation be next year:
1. Rafael Furcal-SS
2. Polanco-2B
3. Granderson-CF
4. Ordonez-RF
5. Cabrera-1B
6. Guillen-DH
7. Thames/Joyce-LF
8. Michael Barrett/Rod Barajas-C
9. Inge-3B

SP-Verlander
SP-Bonderman
SP-Jon Garland/Randy Wolf
SP-Galarraga
SP-Willis/Zumaya/Porcello
CL-K-Rod/Kerry Wood/Brian Fuentes

It's going to cost a lot to get K-Rod, but I think he'd be worth it. If we lose out on that sweepstakes, then the next best closer would be Wood, and at a much cheaper price, but there's always the injury risk. Fuentes would be good as well. I'm really hoping for a Furcal signing, provided he is healthy, so that Granderson can move down in the order because he is not a true leadoff hitter. Furcal would provide us with a true leadoff guy, and a decent SS. Jon Garland as a #3 or 4 starter would be a solid addition. He's not a high K guy, but he gets a lot of groundballs and has had sucess in the AL central from his days with the White Sox. Randy Wolf would be interesting in that he gets some Ks, but he has pitched only in the NL, but he is a lefty and if the lose both Kenny and Nate, they'd need a lefty starter. I'm also hoping they sign a catcher to allow Inge to play where he belongs everyday at 3B. I know he's only going to hit .240, but the runs he prevents over there will make up for what he doesnt produce at the plate.

Bondomania
08-15-2008, 02:13 AM
Lynn Henning was calling for Maggs to be traded when we got off to that rough start.. i wouldn't look to much into it. This team was built to win now.. they had a set back and they were hit by the injury bug hard this year. I think they will get another year to proove that they are worth investing money into.

They may not sign a sheets or sabathia.. but they are going to have to consider going after a guy like Garland or Lowe.. a reliable guy that can go out there and keep you in the game.. not necessarily going to strike out a ton, but they are a horse that you can lean on and you know what you are going to get every time out.

I don't foresee us signing a ton of guys, i think SS will be covered internally, or at least looked at internally in spring training and if they deem that they don't have anyone, then i could see them making a move to get someone.

I just don't see us trading Maggs, he is a fan favorite, and we already kinda ruined some of our PR by trading away Pudge.. i know for a fact that most female fans LOVED pudge, regardless of stats. I just don't see them parting ways with one of the faces of the franchise. I think if anything, they will keep payroll between 120 and 138 mill. Due to contracts already in place and guys hitting arbitration, it will not be easy to get under 120 mill. So Lynn Henning can shove it, we have to many contracts that are not unloadable.. so we would have to eat a TON of salary..

MSK55
08-15-2008, 09:59 AM
I can second the bit about female fans loving Pudge. My mom was furious when he was traded.

Bondomania
08-15-2008, 11:04 AM
yea, my gf, mom, and sister were devastated when he was traded..