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View Full Version : without shaq would kobe and Dwade still be superstars today



lalakobe24
08-10-2008, 11:27 PM
topic

tbron
08-10-2008, 11:30 PM
wade would

madiaz3
08-10-2008, 11:33 PM
wade would

i wonder what makes you say that

PhillyLuver
08-10-2008, 11:47 PM
Yeah probably, Shaq certainly was key to Kobe's and Wade's though

Vinny642
08-10-2008, 11:48 PM
Champions IDK
Superstars yea Kobe is the greatest even without Shaq, is he a chapion no but he is the greatest active player. Wade its a little early to tell but i think he can be.

conway429
08-10-2008, 11:53 PM
ARRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!!!
I hate it when you guys make these stupid threads with obvious answers.
Of course Kobe and Wade would be superstars without Shaq... they're both superstars right now without Shaq.
Did it help that Shaq helped raise their game by assisting them in finding success and being champions early in their careers, sure. But Wade and Kobe (even though I hate him) are great players who are superstars for their own talents.
Your name is lalakobe24, are you really expecting anyone to say "no, Kobe is a terrible basketball player"
Is it really neccesary to start threads just to have 100 other Kobe-lovers come in here and suck him off.

lalakobe24
08-10-2008, 11:58 PM
ARRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!!!
I hate it when you guys make these stupid threads with obvious answers.
Of course Kobe and Wade would be superstars without Shaq... they're both superstars right now without Shaq.
Did it help that Shaq helped raise their game by assisting them in finding success and being champions early in their careers, sure. But Wade and Kobe (even though I hate him) are great players who are superstars for their own talents.
Your name is lalakobe24, are you really expecting anyone to say "no, Kobe is a terrible basketball player"
Is it really neccesary to start threads just to have 100 other Kobe-lovers come in here and suck him off.

wtf yu talking about i just wanted to know how much shaqs influence helped them out

and no without shaq im pretty sure kobe and dwade would not be as good

JWalk126
08-11-2008, 12:10 AM
I think they'd still be superstars, they'd have someone else influence them in some way.
would they be exactly the same? who knows
would their stats be slightly different? maybe

there is no way of knowing what level of superstardom they would have, but there is almost no doubt they would still be popular

Nets fan 93
08-11-2008, 12:16 AM
Kobe:yes
Wade: it was never shaq...its them dang refs :pity:

bogdanrom
08-11-2008, 12:16 AM
Both of them will still be superstars but I don't think they would still have a NBA Championship.

Jay22Redd
08-11-2008, 12:17 AM
Good question. I think they would though. It probably would have takin them longer to become who they are though.

LakerzDQ
08-11-2008, 01:23 AM
Good question. I think they would though. It probably would have takin them longer to become who they are though.

or, it might've sped up the process. I'm not sure, but Kobe might've developed faster if Shaq wasn't in the way, OR, Kobe would've been slower to develop without Shaq taking him under his wings.

I don't know about Wade, because he started playing good when Shaq got there.

LakersOrNothing
08-11-2008, 01:23 AM
WHAT!? :speechless:

Shaq's obviously is the main reason why Wade & Kobe are what they are today. Without Shaq, Kobe wouldn't even be sniffing those 3 rings he has or Wade wouldn't even have that ring + finals MVP! Duh! It really doesn't take a genius to know that even Shaq + Smush Parker = Champion contenders for many years to come, really.. MANY MANY YEARS TO COME. What's the point of this thread/question? We all know Shaq is the main reason people become superstars.

Anyone who disagrees that Shaq is the savior of these 2 players doesn't know a thing about basketball.

:D

*Superman*
08-11-2008, 01:43 AM
HE has influenced them greatly and got them the rings and Finals appearances or whatever, but they are individual players and would still be Superstars....not Champions, for now.....But Superstars.

Aapox
08-11-2008, 01:57 AM
Yes.

Reason:

T-Mac

He is basically considered a superstar because of his playing ability and numbers and he's had a terrible showing in the playoffs.

LakeShowRaider
08-11-2008, 02:37 AM
They would still be superstars, kobe would still be the best in the league, the only thing that would be different are the TITLES.

Mallpha
08-11-2008, 04:21 AM
Both superstars both rings imo but Kobe would rather not get 3 rings back than w/o Shaq.
Most likely he would won some mvp earlier and probobly Lakers would get him some quality guy to win it all.
As for Wade well no Shaq trade Heat keep Grant Odom and Butler with Riley in Miami i belive trio of Butler Odom and Wade and good role player could be a serious contender.

barreleffact
08-11-2008, 05:02 AM
WHAT!? :speechless:

Shaq's obviously is the main reason why Wade & Kobe are what they are today. Without Shaq, Kobe wouldn't even be sniffing those 3 rings he has or Wade wouldn't even have that ring + finals MVP! Duh! It really doesn't take a genius to know that even Shaq + Smush Parker = Champion contenders for many years to come, really.. MANY MANY YEARS TO COME. What's the point of this thread/question? We all know Shaq is the main reason people become superstars.

Anyone who disagrees that Shaq is the savior of these 2 players doesn't know a thing about basketball.

:D

or maybe you dont know as much as you think, actually. it was kobe and wade's work ethics that got them where they are today.

kobe is known for being 100% about basketball and for being arguably the hardest worker period. he obviously had tremendous upside to have been a guard taken for a wing position out of high school. would he have realized it as fast, i cant say, but would he have realized it? barring some cataclismic change in his life...i can answer no way other than yes.

wade- wade was on his way to becoming a star far before shaq. his rookie season he averaged like 16 points and was becoming the focal point of a good squad. he was chosen 5th in the 2005 draft mainly because of positional needs. everyone before him was a big man and lebron, who could play anything almost. shaq had 1 year that he actually helped wade, and that year wade was injured vs the pistons and they lost in the ecf. had he not been, he arguably would have had 2 chips. the following year shaq did nothing in the finals and his game was far less even in the regular season. wade was the focal point and yes, shaq helped, but he easily would have been a star w/o him. i mean cmon. if iggy is getting all this attention, and t-mac who has done nothing, then wade would have definately gotten his.

Chronz
08-11-2008, 05:15 AM
or maybe you dont know as much as you think, actually. it was kobe and wade's work ethics that got them where they are today.

kobe is known for being 100% about basketball and for being arguably the hardest worker period. he obviously had tremendous upside to have been a guard taken for a wing position/ would he have realized it as fast, i cant say, but would he have realized it? barring some cataclismic change in his life...i can answer no way other than yes.

wade- wade was on his way to becoming a star far before shaq. his rookie season he averaged like 16 points and was becoming the focal point of a good squad. he was chosen 5th in the 2005 draft mainly because of positional needs. everyone before him was a big man and lebron, who could play anything almost. shaq had 1 year that he actually helped wade, and that year wade was injured vs the pistons and they lost in the ecf. had he not been, he arguably would have had 2 chips. the following year shaq did nothing in the finals and his game was far less even in the regular season. wade was the focal point and yes, shaq helped, but he easily would have been a star w/o him. i mean cmon. if iggy is getting all this attention, and t-mac who has done nothing, then wade would have definately gotten his.

How young are you?

Drewlius
08-11-2008, 05:19 AM
First of all, you could counter argue the same point, and ask if Shaq would be the superstar he is today without Kobe/D-Wade/Penny..

Then, you could go further, and say, yeah Kobe/D-Wade wouldn't have won championships, and thus would go down the same road as guys like A.I./VC/T-Mac etc., who are still superstars but aren't on the same level.

barreleffact
08-11-2008, 05:19 AM
How young are you?

how young are you?

barreleffact
08-11-2008, 05:23 AM
First of all, you could counter argue the same point, and ask if Shaq would be the superstar he is today without Kobe/D-Wade/Penny..

Then, you could go further, and say, yeah Kobe/D-Wade wouldn't have won championships, and thus would go down the same road as guys like A.I./VC/T-Mac etc., who are still superstars but aren't on the same level.

much agreed, but like you said. you could argue if shaq would have been great or not...its far easier to argue he would have been considering he was one of the most physicaly dominant players ever. his rookie year he averaged like 23 and 13 or sumn along those lines.

LakerzDQ
08-11-2008, 05:32 AM
or maybe you dont know as much as you think, actually. it was kobe and wade's work ethics that got them where they are today.

kobe is known for being 100% about basketball and for being arguably the hardest worker period. he obviously had tremendous upside to have been a guard taken for a wing position/ would he have realized it as fast, i cant say, but would he have realized it? barring some cataclismic change in his life...i can answer no way other than yes.

wade- wade was on his way to becoming a star far before shaq. his rookie season he averaged like 16 points and was becoming the focal point of a good squad. he was chosen 5th in the 2005 draft mainly because of positional needs. everyone before him was a big man and lebron, who could play anything almost. shaq had 1 year that he actually helped wade, and that year wade was injured vs the pistons and they lost in the ecf. had he not been, he arguably would have had 2 chips. the following year shaq did nothing in the finals and his game was far less even in the regular season. wade was the focal point and yes, shaq helped, but he easily would have been a star w/o him. i mean cmon. if iggy is getting all this attention, and t-mac who has done nothing, then wade would have definately gotten his.


I wholeheartedly disagree. everything you said defied logic. Shaquille O'Neal is the only reason that Kobe Bryant became a star. Shaq pushed Kobe into working hard, Shaq's influence inspired Kobe into becoming a better player, and Shaq's pressure made Kobe faster, stronger, a betters shooter, a better dunker, and a better leaper. Without Shaq, Kobe would not be a superstar, but he would still be a pretty good roleplayer/starter. Without Shaq, I think Kobe would be something like a John Salmons.

Wade, who was growing into a good player, would've never been a superstar without Shaq. his climb to the top would've stopped, and he would've peaked early and gone into an early decline. Shaq saved him though. Shaq took Wade under his wing, just as he done to Kobe, and Shaq forced Wade to work harder than he could possibly imagine. With Shaq, Wade improved from a mediocre star that would've gone nowhere, to a superstar that won a championship. It doesn't matter how Shaq produced on the court, rather than how Shaq influenced the player OFF the court. Without Shaq, Wade wouldn't be a superstar. But as Shaq's health declined, Wade started getting hit by injuries. Without Shaq protecting Wade, he crumbled.

do you know why they call Shaq the big cactus? because a cactus makes players around it better. do you understand what Shaq attack means? Shaq Attack is another way of saying, "making Kobe better".

barreleffact
08-11-2008, 05:57 AM
I wholeheartedly disagree. everything you said defied logic. Shaquille O'Neal is the only reason that Kobe Bryant became a star. Shaq pushed Kobe into working hard, Shaq's influence inspired Kobe into becoming a better player, and Shaq's pressure made Kobe faster, stronger, a betters shooter, a better dunker, and a better leaper. Without Shaq, Kobe would not be a superstar, but he would still be a pretty good roleplayer/starter. Without Shaq, I think Kobe would be something like a John Salmons.

Wade, who was growing into a good player, would've never been a superstar without Shaq. his climb to the top would've stopped, and he would've peaked early and gone into an early decline. Shaq saved him though. Shaq took Wade under his wing, just as he done to Kobe, and Shaq forced Wade to work harder than he could possibly imagine. With Shaq, Wade improved from a mediocre star that would've gone nowhere, to a superstar that won a championship. It doesn't matter how Shaq produced on the court, rather than how Shaq influenced the player OFF the court. Without Shaq, Wade wouldn't be a superstar. But as Shaq's health declined, Wade started getting hit by injuries. Without Shaq protecting Wade, he crumbled.

do you know why they call Shaq the big cactus? because a cactus makes players around it better. do you understand what Shaq attack means? Shaq Attack is another way of saying, "making Kobe better".

wow...Kobe was aready a leaper coming in. That alone makes me inclined to disagree with you. HOWEVER, you do have a valid point here and there. Shaq probably did help Wade off the court using his experience from Kobe.

I disagree though about your saying whole heartedly, that basicly they could not have become what they are without Shaq. How many other players achieved greatness without Shaq? You have no idea at all if Kobe was self motivated to begin with or if it was in part due to Shaq. Maybe, wanting to be the best on the team and in the world made him hungrier to be better. That hunger doesnt just come to you though. Kobe grew up being the best and wanting to be the best. If anything, Jordan made kobe hungrier to attain greatness. To say Kobe ONLY became a star because of O'neal is absurd. Apparently the man has more talent than the majority of the league.

Wade...of all people, he is the easiest to argue for. He was the first guard chosen in 03 for a reason. Riley knew what he was getting in him, and saw his potential. He prayed for Wade to be on the board. Wade averaged solid numbers with a good team. He was surrounded by actual players in Odam and Butler. Had it been just him, he would have had more attempts and scored more. He took his team to the second round without Shaq and was clutch even his rookie season. You can not influence clutch. You can help someone get open, but Ice cold veins and killer instinct are one's alone. Shaq helped him, and his presence took some pressure off him, but centers help shooters. Wade's a slaser and driver. If anything, Shaq kept bigs in the paint waiting for him. Wade was bound to be great. That was evident after he torched baron davis in 04, more after he carried them to the ECF in 05, and blatantly obvious with his MVP in 06. of all things in the world, saying Wade had no shot at being the best or a HoF caliber player, thats hating to say the least if not border line insane.

lastly, a cactus??? what ever happened to being called deisel, big aristotle, superman, shaq, or all his other aliases? he chose that because he's in AZ. how could a cactus make anything better? it protects itself and sucks in water and hoards it...thats it. and as far as i can say, shaq attack could mean anything from breaking a board to showing his dominance that you have to foul him to stop him. as i said IDC about a nickname at all. people choose their own at times and those are the most ********...IE black mamba....and im a kobe fan too

LakerzDQ
08-11-2008, 06:35 AM
wow...Kobe was aready a leaper coming in. That alone makes me inclined to disagree with you. HOWEVER, you do have a valid point here and there. Shaq probably did help Wade off the court using his experience from Kobe.

I disagree though about your saying whole heartedly, that basicly they could not have become what they are without Shaq. How many other players achieved greatness without Shaq? You have no idea at all if Kobe was self motivated to begin with or if it was in part due to Shaq. Maybe, wanting to be the best on the team and in the world made him hungrier to be better. That hunger doesnt just come to you though. Kobe grew up being the best and wanting to be the best. If anything, Jordan made kobe hungrier to attain greatness. To say Kobe ONLY became a star because of O'neal is absurd. Apparently the man has more talent than the majority of the league.

Wade...of all people, he is the easiest to argue for. He was the first guard chosen in 03 for a reason. Riley knew what he was getting in him, and saw his potential. He prayed for Wade to be on the board. Wade averaged solid numbers with a good team. He was surrounded by actual players in Odam and Butler. Had it been just him, he would have had more attempts and scored more. He took his team to the second round without Shaq and was clutch even his rookie season. You can not influence clutch. You can help someone get open, but Ice cold veins and killer instinct are one's alone. Shaq helped him, and his presence took some pressure off him, but centers help shooters. Wade's a slaser and driver. If anything, Shaq kept bigs in the paint waiting for him. Wade was bound to be great. That was evident after he torched baron davis in 04, more after he carried them to the ECF in 05, and blatantly obvious with his MVP in 06. of all things in the world, saying Wade had no shot at being the best or a HoF caliber player, thats hating to say the least if not border line insane.

lastly, a cactus??? what ever happened to being called deisel, big aristotle, superman, shaq, or all his other aliases? he chose that because he's in AZ. how could a cactus make anything better? it protects itself and sucks in water and hoards it...thats it. and as far as i can say, shaq attack could mean anything from breaking a board to showing his dominance that you have to foul him to stop him. as i said IDC about a nickname at all. people choose their own at times and those are the most ********...IE black mamba....and im a kobe fan too

holy shat, what are you? some kind of basketball maniac or Zen Master or something? you don't play fair. fine, I give up, you win.

TMAC94
08-11-2008, 07:00 AM
def superstars but i dont think they woulda won championships

Chronz
08-11-2008, 07:41 AM
how young are you?
Im 22 years old, now how old are you kid? Have you ever heard of the term sarcasm?

MaZin420
08-11-2008, 08:24 AM
Without kobe or d-wade fatboy would have 0 titles.

midwestmadman
08-11-2008, 08:30 AM
Yes, they'd be superstars but they wouldn't have any championships rings.

JordansBulls
08-11-2008, 09:29 AM
Well Kobe wasn't a star and didn't put up good numbers until his 3rd season. Wade was a decent player without Shaq though.

frizbo72
08-11-2008, 09:30 AM
Yes but without any rings.

Wade3
08-11-2008, 09:40 AM
They would both still be great players but Kobe wouldn't have 3 rings if it werent for Shaq. Wade would still have his ring :D

Reezy
08-11-2008, 09:47 AM
I think both would still be.

$ NyC $
08-11-2008, 09:50 AM
no one aked about rings..who cares..they can still be super stars with out rings...so yea the answer is ofcourse they would...Shaq didnt give them their talent nor their skills/stats...

$ NyC $
08-11-2008, 09:50 AM
asked*

Reezy
08-11-2008, 09:59 AM
asked*

You don't necessarily have to make a new post to correct an error. Just use the edit button next time.

jmaest
08-11-2008, 10:58 AM
Stars=YES.
Championships=NO.

cambovenzi
08-11-2008, 11:24 AM
you guys didnt hear?!?!
Shaq taught kobe bryant and dwade how to shoot

duh...

Hazardous-taz
08-11-2008, 11:26 AM
Look at what Shaq did with Amare. Sure the Suns are worse Amare has always been good... But Stoudemire went from a great player to an absolute beast.

Hawkeye15
08-11-2008, 11:49 AM
Neither would have a ring, but they would both be still considered superstars.

Hawkeye15
08-11-2008, 11:53 AM
They would both still be great players but Kobe wouldn't have 3 rings if it werent for Shaq. Wade would still have his ring :D

How exactly would Wade have his ring???? Shaq was still a 20-10 player then, demanding doubles when the ball was thrown his way. NO WAY Wade has that ring without Shaq out there, sorry

Canucklehead
08-11-2008, 11:59 AM
Yes they would both be stars.

barreleffact
08-11-2008, 12:18 PM
Im 22 years old, now how old are you kid? Have you ever heard of the term sarcasm?

kind of lost. i was assuming you were dissing me but im 20

barreleffact
08-11-2008, 12:21 PM
How exactly would Wade have his ring???? Shaq was still a 20-10 player then, demanding doubles when the ball was thrown his way. NO WAY Wade has that ring without Shaq out there, sorry
woa....i dont think shaq was 20 10 still and if he was it was an uglier 20 and 10. you could argue wade would have because his team would have still been good, but lacking that center. i cant say what would have happened, but wade plays with such intensity and his game is getting to the line, theres no sure answer what would have happened

and about shaq with amare....amare played out of position before shaq. he never wanted to play center. now he's against smaller people and still does the same IMO....all he does is set a pic and jump or shoot

Westbrook36
08-11-2008, 12:22 PM
Shaq is like Moma Dog, He let Little Wade and Kobe feed off his skillss.

:hide:

blue collar B
08-11-2008, 12:26 PM
Both guys would have 0 championships. Wade I would say no. He might have decent numbers that's it. Kobe would still be a superstar, but it takes more than points to win championships and Kobe is one of those guys that doesn't make the guys around him better. So Kobe yes, Wade no. (In my own opinion of course) Shaq made them who they are today without a doubt.

ash71506
08-11-2008, 12:27 PM
IMO centers don't make individuals better they make teams better.Ball distributors make players better.Kobe is a superstar with or without him.Wade is very good also.Players dont win championships teams do.

Spridge 76
08-11-2008, 12:31 PM
Pointless question, along the lines of which came first the chicken or the egg?

In my opinion though, Shaq could well be the single most over-rated player in the history of the NBA. Without Kobe and D-Wheels he would have been the next Patrick Ewing.

People buy into his image of being the main man because he pretends to be this nice guy, surrounds himself with "yes people" and because of his size. He hated Kobe but knew he needed him.
I think he is a racist, arrogant, ignorant fraud who has fooled too many people for too long.
I for one can't wait to see him dumped on his fat backside a dozen times this season.

Hawkeye15
08-11-2008, 12:32 PM
woa....i dont think shaq was 20 10 still and if he was it was an uglier 20 and 10. you could argue wade would have because his team would have still been good, but lacking that center. i cant say what would have happened, but wade plays with such intensity and his game is getting to the line, theres no sure answer what would have happened

and about shaq with amare....amare played out of position before shaq. he never wanted to play center. now he's against smaller people and still does the same IMO....all he does is set a pic and jump or shoot

There was nothing but role players surronding those 2. So no, unless you gave Wade another star, he would not have gotten it done. Look at Shaq's stats that year. He was 20-10. And besides stats, he was still mobile enough that he required a defensive scheme, and constant double teams, freeing up Wade. He wouldn't have gotten to the line 15 times a game without Shaq down low, because they would have keyed into that.
As far as Amare, Shaq is so far gone now, he only hurts the team. Amare can't guard my grandma, he will never carry a team to the ring.

Hawkeye15
08-11-2008, 12:34 PM
Pointless question, along the lines of which came first the chicken or the egg?

In my opinion though, Shaq could well be the single most over-rated player in the history of the NBA. Without Kobe and D-Wheels he would have been the next Patrick Ewing.

People buy into his image of being the main man because he pretends to be this nice guy, surrounds himself with "yes people" and because of his size. He hated Kobe but knew he needed him.
I think he is a racist, arrogant, ignorant fraud who has fooled too many people for too long.
I for one can't wait to see him dumped on his fat backside a dozen times this season.
Not to mention career stats of 28/13, and being the most physically dominant player in history. Ask anyone in the NBA from 1997-2003, and they would have said Shaq was the most difficult man to stop. And I listen to players before anyone else.
I don't care too much for him, but he had a few years around 99-03, where he was the best player BY FAR.

daleja424
08-11-2008, 12:39 PM
Not to mention career stats of 28/13, and being the most physically dominant player in history. Ask anyone in the NBA from 1997-2003, and they would have said Shaq was the most difficult man to stop. And I listen to players before anyone else.
I don't care too much for him, but he had a few years around 99-03, where he was the best player BY FAR.

those years were spent with kobe... when he came to the heat in 04 he was already on the downswing... wade IS a superstar without Shaq. Kobe obviously is too.

barreleffact
08-11-2008, 12:41 PM
There was nothing but role players surronding those 2. So no, unless you gave Wade another star, he would not have gotten it done. Look at Shaq's stats that year. He was 20-10. And besides stats, he was still mobile enough that he required a defensive scheme, and constant double teams, freeing up Wade. He wouldn't have gotten to the line 15 times a game without Shaq down low, because they would have keyed into that.
As far as Amare, Shaq is so far gone now, he only hurts the team. Amare can't guard my grandma, he will never carry a team to the ring.

i completely agree about amare. partially on wade. its just so hard for me to ever argue against him maybe because im biased to he and kobe. but wade had butler and odam his rookie season i think. not saying that that team is good enough, but in the east, they could have made some noise and hey, a good run like he had in the finals and you never know. as far as shaq giving him open looks...its hard to agree with fully. yes shaq demanded attention but bigs help shooters not necessarily drivers. wade's game is to get in the paint. why would he want shaq's double team rollin over to try to triple team to stop him?a guard wasnt leaving wade. the biggest thing shaq helped with was if the D rolled too much, he could lob it back to shaq. but i have to disagree about getting to the line, however. iverson gets to the line almost more than anyone, yet never played with a legit center. same thing had wade not had shaq

NYstateofMinD
08-11-2008, 01:12 PM
I think that Kobe would have been a superstar quicker and would have averaged more Points with Shaq gone. As for Wade I think he would have also developed quicker and his stats would have been better as well. All 3 players would not have titles though in my opinion.

Chronz
08-12-2008, 11:35 PM
kind of lost. i was asuumining you were dissing me but im 20

I was being an *** but it was only because of how you approached that other guy who was OBVIOUSLY being sarcastic, I mean he said Shaq+Smush=CHIP, that right there shouldve told you not to take him serious, Smush is pretty much regarded as the worst player ever

barreleffact
08-13-2008, 01:10 AM
I was being an *** but it was only because of how you approached that other guy who was OBVIOUSLY being sarcastic, I mean he said Shaq+Smush=CHIP, that right there shouldve told you not to take him serious, Smush is pretty much regarded as the worst player ever

good point, but hey...sum peope really think shaq couldve destroyed the league by himself. i probably was blinded too much by the fact that everyone sayds shaq won those titles and basically snubs kobe worse than they snub pippen, to see the sarcasm

DODGERS&LAKERS
08-13-2008, 01:33 AM
They would both still be great players but Kobe wouldn't have 3 rings if it werent for Shaq. Wade would still have his ring :D

Depends on who you would have replaced Shaq with. You cant take Shaq off the team and not use his 20 million Dollars on another great player or split it between 2 good players. Saying Kobe would not win any rings without Shaq is pretty dumb. Of course Kobe would not have won with a lineup of

Sumaki Walker
AC Green
Glenn Rice
Kobe
Ron Harper.

Who are you going to give Kobe using Shaqs money? Tell me what star he gets to play with and Ill tell you if they win a championship or not. People should think about things before they post stupid $h1t

LakerzDQ
08-13-2008, 03:01 AM
you guys didnt hear?!?!
Shaq taught kobe bryant and dwade how to shoot

duh...

Really?! that's so cool!

roo3flash
08-13-2008, 03:46 AM
I wholeheartedly disagree. everything you said defied logic. Shaquille O'Neal is the only reason that Kobe Bryant became a star. Shaq pushed Kobe into working hard, Shaq's influence inspired Kobe into becoming a better player, and Shaq's pressure made Kobe faster, stronger, a betters shooter, a better dunker, and a better leaper. Without Shaq, Kobe would not be a superstar, but he would still be a pretty good roleplayer/starter. Without Shaq, I think Kobe would be something like a John Salmons.

Wade, who was growing into a good player, would've never been a superstar without Shaq. his climb to the top would've stopped, and he would've peaked early and gone into an early decline. Shaq saved him though. Shaq took Wade under his wing, just as he done to Kobe, and Shaq forced Wade to work harder than he could possibly imagine. With Shaq, Wade improved from a mediocre star that would've gone nowhere, to a superstar that won a championship. It doesn't matter how Shaq produced on the court, rather than how Shaq influenced the player OFF the court. Without Shaq, Wade wouldn't be a superstar. But as Shaq's health declined, Wade started getting hit by injuries. Without Shaq protecting Wade, he crumbled.

do you know why they call Shaq the big cactus? because a cactus makes players around it better. do you understand what Shaq attack means? Shaq Attack is another way of saying, "making Kobe better".

there is no way that shaq made wade the player he is today...wade had great potentail goin into the draft and had a very good rookie year...then he had matured like a LOT OF PLAYERS DO...only players on horrible teams produce superstar numbers on the first year...such as lebron and durant...al horford who is going to be a superstar big man did not produce superstar numbers his first year cause he was not the first option like bron and durant...also look at chris paul and wade rookie stats compared to now

Chris paul.
past present
ppg 16 21
apg 8 11
ppg 5 4

Dwayne wade
past present
ppg 17 25
apg 4 7
rpg 5 6

paul and wade were kinda the same rookie year my question is if shaq made wade then who made pau... tyson chandler...so before you go posting sum bull**** know wat your talkin bout please

roo3flash
08-13-2008, 04:03 AM
Look at what Shaq did with Amare. Sure the Suns are worse Amare has always been good... But Stoudemire went from a great player to an absolute beast.

wat r u talkin bout...shaq didnt make amare a beast...amare stats improved by three points nd thats it...the only reason that happend is because amare added a little 15 foot jumper to his arsenal

BigDaddyKaine
08-13-2008, 04:47 AM
what about this.... IF it wasn't for kobe, wade, and penny would shaq be a superstar

Chronz
08-13-2008, 06:42 AM
what about this.... IF it wasn't for kobe, wade, and penny would shaq be a superstar
Check the teams performance in the years the teammates were together, as in with Shaq and no side kick vs side kick with no Shaq and you'll have your answer.

CELTICS4LYFE
08-13-2008, 08:39 AM
Superstars Yes......champs No!!!!!

Rome
08-13-2008, 08:46 AM
ARRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!!!
I hate it when you guys make these stupid threads with obvious answers.
Of course Kobe and Wade would be superstars without Shaq... they're both superstars right now without Shaq.
Did it help that Shaq helped raise their game by assisting them in finding success and being champions early in their careers, sure. But Wade and Kobe (even though I hate him) are great players who are superstars for their own talents.
Your name is lalakobe24, are you really expecting anyone to say "no, Kobe is a terrible basketball player"
Is it really neccesary to start threads just to have 100 other Kobe-lovers come in here and suck him off.

Haha. Yea they would still be superstars without shaq daddy, not necessarily champions though.

younggunn113
08-13-2008, 09:02 AM
I agree, everyone says its Shaq who carried all of his team. Yes he was an integral part and the 1st option on all of his championship teams (VERY VERY questionable with Heat though) but he has always had the best "littles" playing with him. Check out the guards who have played with him: Penny, Kobe, Wade, Nash. Would Shaq have 4 rings if it wasnt for the help of Kobe and Wade? I say no. I believe regardless of how things turned out both Kobe and Wade would be superstars. Wade carried the corpse of Shaq to that '04 title and this is coming from a Wade hater. Mind you he got every call like he was Jordan in his prime, the heat still won it because of Wade. This is a stupid thread that doesnt need an answer.

I'm also a Laker fan first, Kobe fan second, but this is dumb. I actually get annoyed at some of the laker threads just to boost our egos. It is unecessary. The real answer is who cares? Im sure Kobe and Wade will win a championship without Shaq.. (if theyre not both playing in Europe)