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ATLPatsFan
08-10-2008, 03:47 PM
As much as I like Terry Francona I have 3 requests of him:
1. Please send Clay Buckholz to the minors to get his confidence back. He is throwing batting practice out there. Opponents are hitting almost .300 against him. He has confidence until he gives up his first baserunner which lately has been in the first inning.
2. Tell Varitek to stop switch hitting. Tell him to stick to the righthand side of the plate. As a lefthander he is killing the team.
3. For now, give up the idea of having Jacoby in the leadoff spot. Keep him in the number 9 spot to get and keep his confidence and get on-base for the top of the order. He has had a few good games in a row here. Have him maintain that confidence by keeping him in the bottom of the order. Someone please teach the guy to how to drop down a bunt. He could add 20 points to his batting average by learning the soft touch.

What am I missing?

ewhits24
08-10-2008, 04:19 PM
i agree with all 3 of those especially the first 2, ellsbury adds a new dimension to the team if he could just get on base a little more because he rarely ever gets thrown out and is almost a lock to steal a bag, but the first 2 are very good points.

captaintek33
08-10-2008, 04:37 PM
If Buchholz goes down to AAA, who takes his spot. Colon isn't ready. Masterson is now a releiver, and, oh by the way, Wakefield is now going on the DL...

Varitek will not stop switch hitting and Francona will not (and should not) force him to.

Ellsbury hasn't been in the leadoff spot in a while (until a couple of injuries today), and probably won't return there (at least regularly) until he starts hitting the ball consistently...

Francona has won TWO World Championships. Second guess him all you want....he knows what he's doing....

J-DAWGS SOX
08-10-2008, 05:30 PM
just get another bat. wether its shefield off the waiver wire if possible. maybe even try out bonds and see wether or not he can still hit. if so, i can deal with some extraordinary publicity for a bat like his. bay is good, but not the answer. btw, id love for lowerie to stay. offload lugo in offseason, which we will have to pay most of his salary to do it. easy come easy go!

Osiagledknarf
08-10-2008, 05:59 PM
You just got rid of Manny and you want to bring in Bonds...yikes. He's probably the ONE guy who'd be more destructive than Manny in the clubhouse. Haha. I don't know, I get the feeling this might not be a magical year...I'm not giving up hope by any means, but there just doesn't seem to be alot of options out there at this point. Anyone we could get off waivers who would REALLY help us is going to get snagged by the Yankees before we get to him anyway. If we're going to do it, we're gonna have to do it with the guys we have now.

It just feels like 2005 all over again.

The Varitek thing is interesting...I don't think it's something we should just dismiss out of hand. He's always been a far better hitter from the right side...They should at least consider it...he has been an empty spot in the lineup. They were trying to hit and run with him to get him going, and that didn't work...time for Plan B...actually it's probably Plan K at this point.

If we did decide to send down Buchholz, we could replace him in the rotation with a bunch of options. And yes, Wakefield is going down but word is it's only for 2-3 starts. So it should be okay.

Ellsbury is going to be fine, he's a rookie...sure he's missing elements. The thing about him learning to drop bunt-hits was great though...I don't care how he gets on, just that he does. Good point.

knittingmill
08-10-2008, 07:55 PM
keep varitek in the 9 spot.
can cash be sent to AAA and kottaras called up until wake comes back?

Tragedy
08-10-2008, 08:30 PM
1. Please send Clay Buckholz to the minors to get his confidence back. He is throwing batting practice out there. Opponents are hitting almost .300 against him. He has confidence until he gives up his first baserunner which lately has been in the first inning.
You do realize that it's Theo Epstein that makes the decision on call ups/send downs?

futureheisman
08-10-2008, 08:46 PM
keep varitek in the 9 spot.
can cash be sent to AAA and kottaras called up until wake comes back?

This is a great point and by the time wake comes back the rosters will have expanded so he will be able to stay up.

DaaBoTownSox
08-11-2008, 02:03 AM
As much as I like Terry Francona I have 3 requests of him:
1. Please send Clay Buckholz to the minors to get his confidence back. He is throwing batting practice out there. Opponents are hitting almost .300 against him. He has confidence until he gives up his first baserunner which lately has been in the first inning.
2. Tell Varitek to stop switch hitting. Tell him to stick to the righthand side of the plate. As a lefthander he is killing the team.
3. For now, give up the idea of having Jacoby in the leadoff spot. Keep him in the number 9 spot to get and keep his confidence and get on-base for the top of the order. He has had a few good games in a row here. Have him maintain that confidence by keeping him in the bottom of the order. Someone please teach the guy to how to drop down a bunt. He could add 20 points to his batting average by learning the soft touch.

What am I missing?

:clap:

lil'papi
08-11-2008, 08:32 AM
You do realize that it's Theo Epstein that makes the decision on call ups/send downs?

No he doesn't , not alone. Tito has a say...as does the pitching coach. ;)

Tek should bat right handed why not? LH he is Hellen Keller and his maid keeps moving the furniture around. He has more pop RH too. Cash only bats righty? :D

Ellsbury was a fillin yesterday. Tito mentioned that. Youk went down and he moved ellsy up. He was bunting earlier in the year teams started cheating in....and are still knowing full well he isn't hitting. He starts hitting they move back and he can bunt for hits.

How about Drew, Lowell, Ortiz start carrying their weight too. This gives us chances to win one run games. We suck at it......

Wake going down hurt , this is exactly why we need another ace type pitcher. Never enough, never, never , never.

lil'papi
08-11-2008, 08:39 AM
Tek vs LH/RH pitching anyone still think LH is ok?


AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS

vs. Left 45 73 8 20 3 0 2 8 9 19 0 0 .274 .361 .397 .759
vs. Right 91 242 17 49 14 0 6 24 29 72 0 0 .202 .292 .335 .627

captaintek33
08-11-2008, 08:58 AM
Tek vs LH/RH pitching anyone still think LH is ok?


AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS

vs. Left 45 73 8 20 3 0 2 8 9 19 0 0 .274 .361 .397 .759
vs. Right 91 242 17 49 14 0 6 24 29 72 0 0 .202 .292 .335 .627

Varitek has not seen right handed pitching from the right side of the plate probably since little league. At this point, if he were to bat RH against RH pitchers, there is NO WAY that he would continue to hit as well from that side as he is now...

Hitting is all about routine, and being comfortable. A guy who's been a switch hitter for 20 years will not be comfortable facing a righty pitcher from the right side of the plate.

You could argue that he doesn't look comfortable right now from the left side, and you're probably right. But, I believe that he is more likely to get comfortable by working through his issues, than he would be to completely change everything he's done for the past 20 years...

ATLPatsFan
08-11-2008, 09:44 AM
If Buchholz goes down to AAA, who takes his spot. Colon isn't ready. Masterson is now a releiver, and, oh by the way, Wakefield is now going on the DL...

Varitek will not stop switch hitting and Francona will not (and should not) force him to.

Ellsbury hasn't been in the leadoff spot in a while (until a couple of injuries today), and probably won't return there (at least regularly) until he starts hitting the ball consistently...

Francona has won TWO World Championships. Second guess him all you want....he knows what he's doing....
As far as what to do with Clay, I would say that changes have to be made. The guy is struggling to get past the first three innings. There are options available. Try Masterson or someone else from the PawSox. No sense letting Buckholz get his head handed to him every start and putting the team in a hole to fight out of. Did you see the look on his face when he was in the dugout after he was pulled on Sunday?
As for Tek, do you consider what is best for him or what is best for the team? Let him work on with swing or the RH pitcher situation before or after games or on off-days. Bottom-line for right now is that he has become a liability from the leftside of the plate.

As for second guessing Tito, if you can't second guess a player or a coach, you will not have any of these forums! Francona has forgotten more about baseball in the past week than I have learned in my lifetime. Part of the fun of being a fan is to second guess.

lil'papi
08-11-2008, 10:01 AM
Varitek has not seen right handed pitching from the right side of the plate probably since little league. At this point, if he were to bat RH against RH pitchers, there is NO WAY that he would continue to hit as well from that side as he is now...

Hitting is all about routine, and being comfortable. A guy who's been a switch hitter for 20 years will not be comfortable facing a righty pitcher from the right side of the plate.

You could argue that he doesn't look comfortable right now from the left side, and you're probably right. But, I believe that he is more likely to get comfortable by working through his issues, than he would be to completely change everything he's done for the past 20 years...

If he hits .203 he improves! Why not now if they are going to sign him for another yr or so.....
You can't say either way without the experiment taking place.

RedSoxtober
08-11-2008, 10:04 AM
Tek is at a point where lots of guys need to make changes to their approach at the plate. Picking one side of the plate is not necessarily out of line for most MLB players. I'm split on this. I think he'd improve if he stuck batting righthanded, but I like the flexibility he brings as a switch hitter. Keep Lowrie in the mix and that could change, though...

bosox2312
08-11-2008, 01:57 PM
I just think the relief pitching needs to come through. Okijima is not the same pitcher he was last year and everybody else has been shaky as well with the exception of probably just papelbon.

Tragedy
08-11-2008, 02:50 PM
I think everyone kind of figured Okajima pitched above his level last year, though.

He's still a serviceable reliever, of course.

Osiagledknarf
08-11-2008, 07:52 PM
They'll definitely address the bullpen in someway in the offseason...I think we all agree on that. There's not much we can do about it now though.

DaaBoTownSox
08-12-2008, 02:06 AM
I think everyone kind of figured Okajima pitched above his level last year, though.

He's still a serviceable reliever, of course.

Yes, he did pitch above expectations. I also think he was overused last year, which may be why he hasn't been as sharp this year.

DaaBoTownSox
08-12-2008, 02:09 AM
The Rotation is in just as much trouble as the bullpen I think.

Bucholz just doesn't seem ready yet.

Beckett isn't his dominant self. Perhaps relying on the fastball too much?

Wakefield has been up & down, although better recently.

Dice-K is living on the edge with all the walks.

The only guy that's been consistent has been Lester.

Osiagledknarf
08-12-2008, 02:27 AM
Beckett looked pretty damned good tonight.

RedSoxtober
08-12-2008, 07:11 AM
The Rotation is in just as much trouble as the bullpen I think.

Bucholz just doesn't seem ready yet.

Beckett isn't his dominant self. Perhaps relying on the fastball too much?

Wakefield has been up & down, although better recently.

Dice-K is living on the edge with all the walks.

The only guy that's been consistent has been Lester.

Not sure which Wakefield you've been watching. The one pitching for the Sox has been consistently good all year. He led the team in IP, IP/G until he hit the DL (a reflection of pitching well deep into games) and his 3.67 era (ERA+ of 121) and whip of 1.177 are no fluke. Really the only blemish on his record since mid-May was his start against NYY.

lil'papi
08-12-2008, 08:17 AM
Go look at Oki's stats from Japan. He was NEVER a stud more a servicable guy. We got lucky last year.

lil'papi
08-12-2008, 08:22 AM
Not sure which Wakefield you've been watching. The one pitching for the Sox has been consistently good all year. He led the team in IP, IP/G until he hit the DL (a reflection of pitching well deep into games) and his 3.67 era (ERA+ of 121) and whip of 1.177 are no fluke. Really the only blemish on his record since mid-May was his start against NYY.

He has been really good all year pretty much, for sure.
He has gotten heavier and heavier every year and that's starting to show up. He KILLS me when he says he worked out hard over the winter? Doing what? Flap jacks....

When you have back issues, you must core train....he obviously never got the memo. I'm older than him and my abs don't extend over my belt or is my arse getting wider than a prius.
Wake's back is a MAJOR concern he now has shoulder issues from it. Can't bend guess what takes the brunt...

I'd say he contemplates retirement a little more seriously this year.

Dirty Dirk41
08-12-2008, 11:10 AM
i Doubt Wake retires but who knows. I like Ellsbury in the 9 spot. If he can get on its gives the top of our order something to work with and makes them that much more deadly. Bucholz has been disappointing but what other options do we got. He was killing it in AAA. I think we gotta let em work it out in the majors if hes gunna make it.

DaaBoTownSox
08-13-2008, 01:28 AM
Not sure which Wakefield you've been watching. The one pitching for the Sox has been consistently good all year. He led the team in IP, IP/G until he hit the DL (a reflection of pitching well deep into games) and his 3.67 era (ERA+ of 121) and whip of 1.177 are no fluke. Really the only blemish on his record since mid-May was his start against NYY.

Although his stats seem fairly good, the games I have seen him in, he hasn't been pitching all that good. Only recently can I see that he has been pretty solid.

Another issue with him (although not technically an issue) is he never gets run support for some reason. It's been going on for years.

He misses a start, and his replacement gets 10 runs in the 1st inning lol.

No luck there.

RedSoxtober
08-13-2008, 07:22 AM
No doubt that Wake has gotten screwed by the Sox offense. He's got a bunch of 1- or 2-run, 6IP+ that got him a loss or ND. Running through his game log he could be 13-6 right now given the quality starts where he's had no run support.

Osiagledknarf
08-13-2008, 06:18 PM
I think Wakefield probably still has enough in the tank for one more year...he still seems to really enjoy competing. I guess we'll see how he bounces back from this DL stint. It'd be tough to replace his innings and presence.

Crucis
08-13-2008, 06:34 PM
keep varitek in the 9 spot.
can cash be sent to AAA and kottaras called up until wake comes back?

I think that the problem with this suggestion is that Cash might have no options and may have to be sent thru waivers... and I somehow doubt that the Sox want to risk losing him.

The Intimidator
08-13-2008, 07:12 PM
Why are we making suggestions to Tito? If we could do his job better than he does it, then we would be managing the team.

lil'papi
08-14-2008, 08:48 AM
Why are we making suggestions to Tito? If we could do his job better than he does it, then we would be managing the team.

How do you know? I know HS coaches that are fantastic in game coaches, but they never progress or even want too.

Doesn't mean they couldn't out coach ML coaches. Nevermind luck.....or connections.

I'm not saying he does a bad job either, he does a wonderful job overall. We have two titles. He is GREAT at player relationships. (except one) :D

We can still make suggestions not many of us could run a FO either. Might as well close this site down. :p

futureheisman
09-12-2008, 05:37 PM
dont put in timilin ANYMORE

The Intimidator
09-12-2008, 06:04 PM
You really like to resurrect these dead threads. :D

Celts22
09-12-2008, 08:26 PM
:bang:

The Intimidator
09-12-2008, 08:29 PM
Tell me about it...

76YazwSideburns
09-12-2008, 09:31 PM
In April I thought that we had a shot at being in the playoffs and defending our title. Then:

- Schilling done for season.
- Beckett begins year on DL
- Lowell goes DL
- Ortiz slumps in epic fashion, goes on DL
- Dice-K goes to DL
- Manny is a total knob - is traded.
- Bucholz is a total disaster - sent to AA
- Lugo out - Rookie at shortstop
- Lowell, back on DL.
- Beckett back on DL.
- Drew DL - doesn't play last month and a half of season.
- Bullpen doesn't come close to meeting last year's standard - not close.
- Youklis misses time.
- Ellsbury fails to meet expectations.

If you'd told me in April that all of that would have happened, I'd never have believed we'd be where we are - making the playoffs again and defending our title.

Thanks Tito, you clearly stink. Go Sox.

The Intimidator
09-12-2008, 09:34 PM
In April I thought that we had a shot at being in the playoffs and defending our title. Then:

- Schilling done for season.
- Beckett begins year on DL
- Lowell goes DL
- Ortiz slumps in epic fashion, goes on DL
- Dice-K goes to DL
- Manny is a total knob - is traded.
- Bucholz is a total disaster - sent to AA
- Lugo out - Rookie at shortstop
- Lowell, back on DL.
- Beckett back on DL.
- Drew DL - doesn't play last month and a half of season.
- Bullpen doesn't come close to meeting last year's standard - not close.
- Youklis misses time.
- Ellsbury fails to meet expectations.

If you'd told me in April that all of that would have happened, I'd never have believed we'd be where we are - making the playoffs again and defending our title.

Thanks Tito, you clearly stink. Go Sox.

Well said.

Freel for prez
09-12-2008, 10:40 PM
In April I thought that we had a shot at being in the playoffs and defending our title. Then:

- Schilling done for season.
- Beckett begins year on DL
- Lowell goes DL
- Ortiz slumps in epic fashion, goes on DL
- Dice-K goes to DL
- Manny is a total knob - is traded.
- Bucholz is a total disaster - sent to AA
- Lugo out - Rookie at shortstop
- Lowell, back on DL.
- Beckett back on DL.
- Drew DL - doesn't play last month and a half of season.
- Bullpen doesn't come close to meeting last year's standard - not close.
- Youklis misses time.
- Ellsbury fails to meet expectations.

If you'd told me in April that all of that would have happened, I'd never have believed we'd be where we are - making the playoffs again and defending our title.

Thanks Tito, you clearly stink. Go Sox.

Wow I thought my fans in Cincinnati were bad...
You guys are what? 2 GB the division race and are WC leaders?
Your team is beyond fine and your lineup is still nasty. Keep the faith and don't give up on your guys because you still have an amazing chance to repeat.

Tragedy
09-12-2008, 11:38 PM
In April I thought that we had a shot at being in the playoffs and defending our title. Then:

- Schilling done for season.
- Beckett begins year on DL
- Lowell goes DL
- Ortiz slumps in epic fashion, goes on DL
- Dice-K goes to DL
- Manny is a total knob - is traded.
- Bucholz is a total disaster - sent to AA
- Lugo out - Rookie at shortstop
- Lowell, back on DL.
- Beckett back on DL.
- Drew DL - doesn't play last month and a half of season.
- Bullpen doesn't come close to meeting last year's standard - not close.
- Youklis misses time.
- Ellsbury fails to meet expectations.

If you'd told me in April that all of that would have happened, I'd never have believed we'd be where we are - making the playoffs again and defending our title.

Thanks Tito, you clearly stink. Go Sox.
All I can say is this: Thank god there is someone out there who doesn't blame the 60 + losses a year on Tito. I was beginning to think I was the only one.

lil'papi
09-13-2008, 07:13 AM
I blame him for all 60 losses. But I praise him for all 86 wins too. :D Part of being a manager in Boston.

Seriously , he is the last of our worries. He is also trying to get in the playoffs and line our starters up properly, get guys proper rest, get guys work, keep guys happy, talk the fruit cake media and he still won 86.
On pace for mid -90s. Same as every other year despite all the crap he's been handed.

lil'papi
09-13-2008, 07:15 AM
I normally never bash coaches. :D Those that do , never wore them shoes...
Hardest part is being a psychiatrist.

Osiagledknarf
09-13-2008, 01:07 PM
I think Francona plays that last role pretty well too. He's well known for being able to handle and balance personalities. I think he let Manny walk over that clubhouse a little, but I still have to give him alot of credit for managing the personalities in there.

The Intimidator
09-13-2008, 02:08 PM
Yeah, that's really all a manager is. A guy who takes the team's pulse every day, and uses that information to put his team in the best position to win on said day. Dealing with all of Manny's crap on a daily basis was going above and beyond the call of duty.

Osiagledknarf
09-13-2008, 02:53 PM
Yeah, that's really all a manager is. A guy who takes the team's pulse every day, and uses that information to put his team in the best position to win on said day. Dealing with all of Manny's crap on a daily basis was going above and beyond the call of duty.

Well, I think the manager does alot in making situational play calls and matchups. I think Francona does that very well. He takes risks when necessary, and knows when to sit tight.

Case in point: Dave Roberts stealing 2nd in game 4 of the ALCS in 2004 and ultimately making my life alot happier.

The Intimidator
09-13-2008, 04:16 PM
Well, I think the manager does alot in making situational play calls and matchups. I think Francona does that very well. He takes risks when necessary, and knows when to sit tight.

Case in point: Dave Roberts stealing 2nd in game 4 of the ALCS in 2004 and ultimately making my life alot happier.

I think that made us all a lot happier...:D

Osiagledknarf
09-13-2008, 04:45 PM
I think that made us all a lot happier...:D

Haha...it was a good, good thing.

lil'papi
09-14-2008, 09:34 AM
Coaching is a lot easier with a good staff. He has a really good staff.
He doesn't make all the in game calls either. The pitching coach makes some, the bench coach absolutely makes some. Terry makes the crucial over rides though.

The game is so mental.

Tito does make mistakes though, but it's expected when you make a billion decisions per season. Nevermind old school guys have a different take on situational BB than the new stat oriented guys do. You MUST blend them. He does that extremely well , imho.

The Intimidator
09-14-2008, 09:46 AM
Yup.

RedSoxtober
09-15-2008, 08:20 AM
Yeah, that's really all a manager is. A guy who takes the team's pulse every day, and uses that information to put his team in the best position to win on said day. Dealing with all of Manny's crap on a daily basis was going above and beyond the call of duty.


Well, I think the manager does alot in making situational play calls and matchups. I think Francona does that very well. He takes risks when necessary, and knows when to sit tight.

Case in point: Dave Roberts stealing 2nd in game 4 of the ALCS in 2004 and ultimately making my life alot happier.

I have a bit of a different take. I think that Francona manages the team slightly differently during the season and during the playoffs -- and rightly so. During the season he is not always concerned with winning on any given day. He is concerned with having a winning ballclub but sometimes that means he's willing to stick with a struggling starter or a slumping slugger in a situation that have many win-now fans screaming for blood. Those situations are all about developing the individuals involved. The best example that I can think of at the moment was his decision to pinch hit Lowrie against the Angels. That's not a move you'd make in game 4 of the ALCS, but it is one you'd make to get Lowrie ready for game 4 of the ALCS.

lil'papi
09-15-2008, 08:42 AM
I have a bit of a different take. I think that Francona manages the team slightly differently during the season and during the playoffs -- and rightly so. During the season he is not always concerned with winning on any given day. He is concerned with having a winning ballclub but sometimes that means he's willing to stick with a struggling starter or a slumping slugger in a situation that have many win-now fans screaming for blood. Those situations are all about developing the individuals involved. The best example that I can think of at the moment was his decision to pinch hit Lowrie against the Angels. That's not a move you'd make in game 4 of the ALCS, but it is one you'd make to get Lowrie ready for game 4 of the ALCS.



He does what's best to win the marathon, so they have enough energy to win the sprint at the end. ;)

Osiagledknarf
09-16-2008, 05:10 AM
I have a bit of a different take. I think that Francona manages the team slightly differently during the season and during the playoffs -- and rightly so. During the season he is not always concerned with winning on any given day. He is concerned with having a winning ballclub but sometimes that means he's willing to stick with a struggling starter or a slumping slugger in a situation that have many win-now fans screaming for blood. Those situations are all about developing the individuals involved. The best example that I can think of at the moment was his decision to pinch hit Lowrie against the Angels. That's not a move you'd make in game 4 of the ALCS, but it is one you'd make to get Lowrie ready for game 4 of the ALCS.


That's exactly what I meant when I said he knows when to take risks, and when to sit tight.

futureheisman
09-17-2008, 04:45 PM
one of the best right now