View Full Version : Including 2010 Knicks Draft Pick In Proposed Trade Scenarios

08-07-2008, 12:03 AM
I am a huge Jazz fan, and a dreamer and a schemer as are most of you out here on this forum. I would still like the Jazz to upgrade the roster to keep up with some of the moves that have been made around the rest of the league.
In creating scenarios that could help the Jazz upgrade the roster many people have suggested trading the 2010 pick that comes from the Knicks. Unfortunately the Jazz are restricted from trading this pick right now because of scenarios that could occur whereby Philadelphia would have access to it. These mainly involve the Knicks doing amazingly well so the pick would not be protected in 2009, which is not likely to happen, but because it is a theoretical scenario the Jazz cannot trade that pick away at the current time. Additionally, if Philadelphia does not exercise their option to take the Jazz's pick in 2009, they get to choose the lower of the two draft picks in 2010. So Philadelphia's claim to that pick, whether or not the situation actually materializes, restricts the Jazz from moving the 2010 pick.

08-07-2008, 10:05 AM
Are you saying that if theoretically the Knicks are horrible in 09-10 and the pick is high that the Sixers can take that pick? I have never heard of that scenario. All the talk I hear on radio, newspaper, and message boards is that the pick is ours and that the Knicks (at least Isaiah) want(ed) it back desperately.

Do you know of any online resources where we can read more about it?

Lo Porto
08-07-2008, 10:10 AM

I thought the 2009 pick sent to Philly was protected on Utah's end. If Utah is in the lottery or top 10 in the draft, then Philly does not get the 2009 pick. I'm pretty sure that if Utah qualifies for the playoffs next year that Philly has to take their 2009 pick and waiting for 2010 is not an option. I also read something O'Connor said that the pick Philly gets can never be in the lottery or something to that effect.

08-07-2008, 03:32 PM

2009 first round draft pick from New York
New York's own 2009 1st round pick to Utah via Phoenix (top 22 protected in 2009, and unprotected in the 2010 Draft). [New York - Phoenix, 1/5/2004 and then Phoenix - Utah, 2/19/2004]


2009 first round draft pick to Philadelphia
Utah's own 2009 1st round pick to Philadelphia (top 22 protected in the 2009 Draft, top 15 protected in 2010, top 17 protected in 2011, top 16 protected in 2012, and top 16 protected in the 2013 Draft). However, if: (i) Utah's own 2009 first round draft is not protected, and (ii) Utah is entitled to receive New York’s own 2009 first round draft pick, then Utah shall convey to Philadelphia the more favorable of its own 2009 first round draft pick and New York’s 2009 first round draft pick.

In other words, if NY finishes high in the playoffs in 09 (22nd or better) and Utah finishes in the playoffs (22nd or better) then Philly gets the better of the two picks. If NY's pick is protected (they don't make the playoffs) and Utah's pick is unprotected (we do make the playoffs) philly gets our pick.

Further, if: (x) Utah did not satisfy its obligations to Philadelphia in 2009 and (y) if Utah's own 2010 first round draft is not protected, and (z) if Utah is entitled to receive New York’s own 2010 first round draft pick, then Utah shall convey to Philadelphia the least favorable of its own 2010 first round draft pick and New York’s 2010 first round draft pick.

If both Utah and NY finish 09 with protected picks, Philly gets the worst of the two in 2010. If you notice, we unprotected ours all the way down to the first pick after the lottery, so Philly will have the greatest chance of getting our crappy pick rather than the unlimited NY pick.

If Philadelphia does not receive a first round draft pick from Utah pursuant to the foregoing in any of the Drafts from 2009 through 2013, then Utah’s obligation to send a first round draft pick to Philadelphia shall be extinguished and Utah shall instead convey to Philadelphia Utah’s own 2014 second round draft pick and pay to Philadelphia cash. [Philadelphia - Utah, 12/29/2007]

Bottom line. No one makes trades involving completely unprotected first round picks like NY did, and there is simply no way in hell you ever even concieve of giving it up via trade unless you get a true superstar in return like a Kobe, Lebron or Wade. That NY could be a lottery winner, the top pick overall, and if you trade it away and suddenly there is the next Tim Duncan, Lebron James type player in the draft, whoa is the fool who traded it.

08-07-2008, 03:35 PM
Ahh - I feel much better now:)

Lo Porto
08-07-2008, 03:47 PM
Just because there are protections that could reach 2013 doesn't mean that we can't trade any 1st round pick for the next 5 years right? So we can trade our 2010 pick (not New York's). If we trade it, then that means Philly would have to take our 2011 pick if we somehow miss the playoffs in 2009.

I think we should be including that 2010 pick for trades like Michael Redd (doubt possible) or Josh Smith (possible).

Lo Porto
08-07-2008, 03:47 PM
Thanks for the homework HotRod...

08-07-2008, 04:21 PM
Nobody needs to be upset or worried about this. If the New York pick is a lottery pick in 2010 then the Jazz will get it. The deal is that there are scenarios out there whereby Philadelphia could have access to the pick, however those scenarios are unlikely, and if they did occur, the pick wouldn't be that desirable anyway because it would be worse than the Jazz's own pick that year. I posted this thread merely to illustrate that because of the existence of certain scenarios, the Jazz cannot trade the 2010 pick at this time because Philadelphia has a theoretical claim to it which may or may not ever materialize. As much as I would like to see Redd or Smith on the team other chips will have to be thrown onto the table instead of the 2010 NY pick.

PS thanks HotRod for including the details that I only implied.

08-07-2008, 09:09 PM
if boozer does opt out and leave, and if we do get rid of ak, the pick is a nice insurance policy, and it comes at the right time to keept us ticking along at the top of the league, i dont think we should trade it for anything at the moment.

08-08-2008, 07:50 AM
ya i would rather hold on to that pick anyways cause theres a chance the player we draft will be better than everyone else on our team. so we might as well trade brewer, miles, korver, harpring or almond with ak instead of the pick cause the player might be better than all of those guys.

08-08-2008, 08:19 AM
We should just trade our 2010 pick to Philly in a trade involving Iggi, that way there would be no confusion as to who or what gets that pick. Philly would love that, that would give them a plethora of draft picks in 09 and 2010 to trade or use.

Lo Porto
08-08-2008, 10:18 AM
All of our picks from now until 2014 are not on hold just because there are protections from Philly. In all likelihood, Philly will have to take our 2009 pick because we won't be in the lottery. If not, they take the next one that meets the criteria. All our 1st rounders the next 5 years are held hostage.

Lo Porto
08-08-2008, 10:18 AM
Excuse me - all 1st rounders the next 5 years are NOT held hostage.