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papipapsmanny
08-06-2008, 01:21 PM
who do we kick out

say we sign him our rotation would be

Beckett
Sabathia
Matsuzaka
Lester
Buchholz/Wakfeild

Now looking at that make me drool, but who would get the 5th spot

i say give it to buchholz, because wake has maybe 2 years left max, and buch is all for the future.

Seriously though look at that rotation

as u can see though bowden is blocked by many which is why i think we need to package him for another hitter or something

but do we move wake to the pen or say no we dont want u anymore, or move buch to AAA or to the pen??

remembr hypothetical situation

Wake's Fastball
08-06-2008, 01:25 PM
I'm really not sure there's a ton of incentive for Theo and co. to go after CC. I mean, like you said above, we've already got 5 terrific starting pitchers, and that's already taking Masterson out of the picture, assuming Schilling doesn't try a comeback and adding in Bowden gives us 8 very good starters. I'd imagine the Sox stay pretty dormant this offseason, with the exception of making a few moves to shore up the bullpen.

TheKid
08-06-2008, 01:43 PM
why would they stay dormant? they have shed nearly $55MM in the past two seasons, they have the cash and arn't afraid to spended it (from what i hear)


i think they might make a run at CC or Sheets and a bat if they can... Tex is out there but with nowhere to play here... idk their lineup seems set with all those peices coming back... but if Clay can't figure it out during the remainder of this season, he might be in AAA next season with Wake in the 5th spot. Then when they inevitable happens, you have either clay or bowden to step-up.

Tragedy
08-06-2008, 02:19 PM
Plenty of things can happen for us to sign C.C.

Wakefield could retire, who knows?

Maybe we decide Masterson is our SU man for the next 10 years?

Maybe we decide that Masterson/Buchholz aren't part of the future, so we trade them?

I think we'll make an attempt at CC for sure.

Wake's Fastball
08-06-2008, 02:19 PM
why would they stay dormant? they have shed nearly $55MM in the past two seasons, they have the cash and arn't afraid to spended it (from what i hear)


i think they might make a run at CC or Sheets and a bat if they can... Tex is out there but with nowhere to play here... idk their lineup seems set with all those peices coming back... but if Clay can't figure it out during the remainder of this season, he might be in AAA next season with Wake in the 5th spot. Then when they inevitable happens, you have either clay or bowden to step-up.

Because what do they need? With Lowrie, they really appear pretty solid at shortstop, and that's really the only spot in the lineup that could be addressed well through FA (how many good catchers are really out there?). Meanwhile, Lester, Papelbon, Youkilis, Pedroia and Delcarmen are all coming up on arbitration years, and Okajima and Varitek are both eligible to hit the free agent market (and are likely to have the Sox making an effort to resign them). I'm not sure dormant was the right word as much as they're going to put most of their focus on keeping their current team together.

sboyajian
08-06-2008, 02:21 PM
Plenty of things can happen for us to sign C.C.

Wakefield could retire, who knows?

Maybe we decide Masterson is our SU man for the next 10 years?

Maybe we decide that Masterson/Buchholz aren't part of the future, so we trade them?

I think we'll make an attempt at CC for sure.

precisely.. with how much we freed up from bailing on Manny.. CC becomes much more affordable.

TheKid
08-06-2008, 02:33 PM
Because what do they need? With Lowrie, they really appear pretty solid at shortstop, and that's really the only spot in the lineup that could be addressed well through FA (how many good catchers are really out there?). Meanwhile, Lester, Papelbon, Youkilis, Pedroia and Delcarmen are all coming up on arbitration years, and Okajima and Varitek are both eligible to hit the free agent market (and are likely to have the Sox making an effort to resign them). I'm not sure dormant was the right word as much as they're going to put most of their focus on keeping their current team together.


you are right their lineup is pretty much set, i also mentioned that in my post. As for arbitration... i don't pretend to be a genius with this, but what has been the highest arbitration ruling? wasn't it Ryan howard at 10 mil a year after his NL MVP season? I don't think any of our guys are gunna get nearly that much... Like i said i'm not a genuis on these things and i'm no even sure how it works as far as who is eligible and for how long... so what do you see as the contracts for those players mentioned? btw i didn't add MDC cuz that's a laugh, he won't get a lot in arbitration... plus, hasn't Theo never gone to arbitration?

SHONIE
08-06-2008, 02:44 PM
It would be

Becket
CC
Lester
Dice K
Bucholz

I wouldn't mind seeing wake in the bullpen anyway.

papipapsmanny
08-06-2008, 02:49 PM
thing is we need to trade for a catcher asap that will be our main priority in the offseason

we really need one of those

even if it mean giving up bowden, kottoras, bard, and hunter jones for a guy like mccann

LA Sox Fan
08-06-2008, 03:10 PM
I'm sure that the Sox will kick the tires on guys like CC and Sheets but I agree with those saying that Theo and Co. probably won't make a big push to get them.

CC is going to demand huge money and despite all the payroll the Sox have shed, it doesn't make a lot of sense to spend a fortune at a position that we're already deep at. The other reason it doesn't make sense is because our ace Beckett is playing under a $10mil/year contract. It's not chump change but if you bring in a new guy for close to twice that you're probably going to have to redo Beckett's deal (adding years and major money) or else deal with a sticky club house situation and risk losing Beckett to FA after 2009.

The reality is that with the Manny drama over, this offseason probably won't be a terribly exciting one. It will be interesting to see how the Varitek situation plays out and there's a chance that the Sox will be able to make a change at SS. Mostly though I think that we'll make some good but not terribly "sexy" moves to get middle relief help.

Osiagledknarf
08-06-2008, 03:11 PM
Sign Sabathia when we have 8 cheaper, plus quality pitchers...trade for McCann...Wakefield in the bullpen when he's consistently eaten up innings for us year in and year out...

I think I am going to sit this thread out, I think it's giving me an aneurysm.

bagwell368
08-06-2008, 03:17 PM
Masterson stays in the pen
Bucholtz gets dealt
Bowden is #5 in '10
Wake retires after '09

yes, by all means, sign CC, just be ready to crank up the dough to Beckett if you do.

also Lowrie ends up at 3B in '09
Lowell is dealt
Lugo is dealt
we do not resign Tek, unless it is for 2 years

yaowowrocket11
08-06-2008, 03:19 PM
thing is we need to trade for a catcher asap that will be our main priority in the offseason

we really need one of those

even if it mean giving up bowden, kottoras, bard, and hunter jones for a guy like mccann

No way in hell the Braves trade McCann.

Anyways, I think that Wake will be the odd man out, unfortunately . Although, that is 4-5 months away, so we don't know what will transpire between now and then. Let's just worry about this season for now!

kbrill21
08-06-2008, 03:37 PM
Just sign CC to keep him away from the Yanks.

homie564
08-06-2008, 03:44 PM
wake doesnt have much left and will retire soon and imo buccholz needs a lot more time in the minors so wake would likly be our #5 until he retires then either buccholz or masterson become a starter then the other one gets traded in a monster deal

kazzy4080
08-06-2008, 03:46 PM
Masterson stays in the pen
Bucholtz gets dealt
Bowden is #5 in '10
Wake retires after '09

yes, by all means, sign CC, just be ready to crank up the dough to Beckett if you do.

also Lowrie ends up at 3B in '09
Lowell is dealt
Lugo is dealt
we do not resign Tek, unless it is for 2 years

why we trading my boy clay? cause hes not been doing tht well? i remember when everyone wanted to trade lester cause they thought at best hed be a 3 or 4 and now hes showing 1 or 2 stuff. clay has got the pitches to be an ace hes jsut gotta learn to be more confident and dominant and also theres the fact that clay wont cost us 20+ million

PeteyDoesKarate
08-06-2008, 03:50 PM
Can't have too much pitching, with Sabathia and Ben Sheets among other solid top of the rotation types coming up for free agency soon, the sox should seriously take a look at adding another arm. Also with the year Wake is having (win-loss aside) how could you ask him to go to the pen? Especially with how shaky Buchholz has been since he came back from AAA. You would have to start him at AAA again next year and let him play his way onto the big club. Injuries will happen, so having pitchers of Buchholz's caliber in the minors only makes the team better.

tc2deuce
08-06-2008, 04:33 PM
this is what I think will happen..
Lugo..traded for (nothing)
Crisp..traded
Lowell...will be kept
Cash..traded
Timlin...released
Masterson or Buchholz will be traded
we will receive (IDK who it will be but this will be our wishlist)
A big bat
a back up catcher
and CC!!

TDbank24
08-06-2008, 05:16 PM
If we land CC we will have the 2 pitchers that finished 1 and 2 in the Cy Young race last year. That would be downright scary, and with Dice-K as a number 3? Wow.. Theo needs to make it happen. Wakefield isn't going to last forever and who knows about Buchholz? We need another sure arm and we have the money to do it

Osiagledknarf
08-06-2008, 05:39 PM
this is what I think will happen..
Lugo..traded for (nothing)
Crisp..traded
Lowell...will be kept
Cash..traded
Timlin...released
Masterson or Buchholz will be traded
we will receive (IDK who it will be but this will be our wishlist)
A big bat
a back up catcher
and CC!!

Who is going to trade for Cash? He's not the kind of player who goes in trades. He's the type the gets DFA'd and picked up for $400,000 a year on a minor league contract. If you're keeping Lowell, where do you put the big bat? I would love to just hear someone...anyone...tell me where they would place this big bat on the roster when there's no room for him.

That being said, I think the question "Was what would happen if we got Sabathia?", not "Should we get Sabathia?"

If you spend the money necessary in order to bring in Sabathia, there's no way you have the bank left to go out and get this vaunted big bat.

So, what would happen IF we got Sabathia? Well...we'd get a logjam of good, young, talented pitchers that we'd trade away regrettably and watch become aces or number 2's somewhere else for millions less than we're paying Sabathia for the next 5-6 years. Awesome, well done. PLUS, we'd lose two draft picks for signing Sabathia and that further hurts your farm system. Awesome again.

Now, you've gone out and traded your young stud pitchers to bring in who? That big bat? Okay, well there was nowhere to put him so you had to have traded either Lowell, Youkilis, or Bay. You're not going to move Pedroia or Ellsbury, and you can't move Drew or Lugo. Lowell took less money over less years to stay here...so, nice...trade away players who love the team, city, and are great clubhouse presences. Youkilis puts up numbers which relatively match these big bats, for alot cheaper...trade him and you're wasting money. Same with Bay.

So, you went out and unnecessarily signed a huge contract pitcher, traded away very high upside, young pitchers (which is pretty much the most valuable baseball currency there is), hurt your farm system, got rid of a clubhouse leader who made personal sacrifices just to stay in town, and traded away an All-Star putting up All-Star numbers with arbitration years left under team control to get the same numbers from a player for whom you have to pay alot more.

That's what happens IF we sign Sabathia and follow some of the related suggestions. I can't wait.

tc2deuce
08-06-2008, 06:17 PM
"Who is going to trade for Cash? He's not the kind of player who goes in trades"

pkg deal

Osiagledknarf
08-06-2008, 06:30 PM
If they're asking for a catcher in a package...they'd ask for younger guys like Brown or Kottaras, not 31 year old Cash. That's my take at least.

sboyajian
08-06-2008, 06:59 PM
Who is going to trade for Cash? He's not the kind of player who goes in trades. He's the type the gets DFA'd and picked up for $400,000 a year on a minor league contract. If you're keeping Lowell, where do you put the big bat? I would love to just hear someone...anyone...tell me where they would place this big bat on the roster when there's no room for him.

That being said, I think the question "Was what would happen if we got Sabathia?", not "Should we get Sabathia?"

If you spend the money necessary in order to bring in Sabathia, there's no way you have the bank left to go out and get this vaunted big bat.

So, what would happen IF we got Sabathia? Well...we'd get a logjam of good, young, talented pitchers that we'd trade away regrettably and watch become aces or number 2's somewhere else for millions less than we're paying Sabathia for the next 5-6 years. Awesome, well done. PLUS, we'd lose two draft picks for signing Sabathia and that further hurts your farm system. Awesome again.

Now, you've gone out and traded your young stud pitchers to bring in who? That big bat? Okay, well there was nowhere to put him so you had to have traded either Lowell, Youkilis, or Bay. You're not going to move Pedroia or Ellsbury, and you can't move Drew or Lugo. Lowell took less money over less years to stay here...so, nice...trade away players who love the team, city, and are great clubhouse presences. Youkilis puts up numbers which relatively match these big bats, for alot cheaper...trade him and you're wasting money. Same with Bay.

So, you went out and unnecessarily signed a huge contract pitcher, traded away very high upside, young pitchers (which is pretty much the most valuable baseball currency there is), hurt your farm system, got rid of a clubhouse leader who made personal sacrifices just to stay in town, and traded away an All-Star putting up All-Star numbers with arbitration years left under team control to get the same numbers from a player for whom you have to pay alot more.

That's what happens IF we sign Sabathia and follow some of the related suggestions. I can't wait.

Bay makes 7.5 million next year -- removed from Manny's 20 million that is 12.5 million left over.

If we can get rid of Coco and his 5.75 million next year we're up to 18.25 million

Timlin is another 3 and Schillings is about 8.. so we have about 29 million just from those 4 players. CC is not so hard to get and we don't need a big bat.. we have no where to put him.

Nickday
08-06-2008, 07:33 PM
No way we sign CC. Someone in the F.O. might mention his name as a possibility. Before soon after getting laughed at, but no way does a pen come anywhere near his hand or any real negotiating go down. He's gonna want 7 years, at 17-20+million per easily. Theo would NEVER sign a morbidly obese 30 year old pitcher to that type of a deal. Never.

Osiagledknarf
08-06-2008, 07:38 PM
Bay makes 7.5 million next year -- removed from Manny's 20 million that is 12.5 million left over.

If we can get rid of Coco and his 5.75 million next year we're up to 18.25 million

Timlin is another 3 and Schillings is about 8.. so we have about 29 million just from those 4 players. CC is not so hard to get and we don't need a big bat.. we have no where to put him.

Well, I'll buy the argument that it is economically possible to get Sabathia, sure...it CAN be done.

I'd rather keep Crisp, I love his defense and as a 4th outfielder he's great. But I understand he's excellent trade bait. You'd still need to find a replacement 4th outfielder, which could probably be had cheaply.

Obviously though, I still disagree with the merits of signing Sabathia. That's not to say it might not ultimately happen, because I am sure it could....I'd just really NOT WANT to see it happen.

Osiagledknarf
08-06-2008, 07:39 PM
No way we sign CC. Someone in the F.O. might mention his name as a possibility. Before soon after getting laughed at, but no way does a pen come anywhere near his hand or any real negotiating go down. He's gonna want 7 years, at 17-20+million per easily. Theo would NEVER sign a morbidly obese 30 year old person to that type of a deal. Never.

YESSSSSSSSSSSSS!!! Right on.

Raidaz4Life
08-06-2008, 07:39 PM
don't want him, I'll stick with our young guns

Osiagledknarf
08-06-2008, 07:59 PM
don't want him, I'll stick with our young guns

YESSSSSS! Right on AGAIN!

Super.
08-06-2008, 08:08 PM
wake doesnt have much left and will retire soon and imo buccholz needs a lot more time in the minors so wake would likly be our #5 until he retires then either buccholz or masterson become a starter then the other one gets traded in a monster deal

wake doesnt hav much left? WHAT??? dude can throw the knuckle till he's 55! i guarentee wakey will be pitching into 2010 no doubt about it seriously everyone thinks wake is gonna be out but the knuckle is the ageless wonder

sboyajian
08-06-2008, 08:42 PM
^^ this is the most truth in the thread. Wake will go until he's physically out of gas, which will be a long time. How many 40 years old can still go as many innings as him.

He has an open option with the club, as long as they want him, he's ours. At the price we pay him, we will continue to pick up the option until his arm falls off.

Raidaz4Life
08-06-2008, 09:36 PM
^^ this is the most truth in the thread. Wake will go until he's physically out of gas, which will be a long time. How many 40 years old can still go as many innings as him.

He has an open option with the club, as long as they want him, he's ours. At the price we pay him, we will continue to pick up the option until his arm falls off.

"First and third with two outs Wake is ahead in the count 0-2, and YES strike 3 to end the inning but what's this??? It appears Wake's arm has finally fallen off. Yes folks I think its safe to say its over now for the 72 year old knuckler"

NESports2004
08-06-2008, 09:50 PM
with a guy of CC's talent on the market and you have the money for him how could you not try for him?

And all this theres no room for him...come on it's CC Sabathia Theo will make room!!

NESports2004
08-06-2008, 09:51 PM
if anything we sign him to keep him away from NY

Nickday
08-06-2008, 10:10 PM
No, he wont. Not at his cost. Theo HATES going over 3 years on a contract, but will occasionally. I highly doubt he'll more than DOUBLE his typical standard for that fat slob.

TotallySox9097
08-07-2008, 01:10 AM
I like sheets more and would rather have him than the fat lard known as sabathia

Dirty Dirk41
08-07-2008, 01:24 AM
I hate all the fat jokes about CC. We get it hes not jakked with a six pack. But hell hes a lefty pitcher who flat out dominates. How can anyone say they dont want CC on this team??? The money and years is the only issue. Hes going to command a whole lot of money. Zito money?? Maybe more considering Zito is grabage htis season. If we signed CC we would easily have one of the best rotations i think ive ever seen. Daisuke at 12-2(although a weird 12-2) would be a THIRD STARTER!! John Lester whos looking like the real deal and then some would be number 4. And then its take your pick wiht the fifth spot. Bucholz/Wake/Bowden....My god.

Nickday
08-07-2008, 01:53 AM
All of the fat jokes are very relevant, though! He's gonna want a 7 year deal (i believe his agent's already stated this) he'll be a THREE HUNDRED, THREE HUNDRED POUND 37 year old. And most of that... ain't the good weight.

Remember David Wells? He was a damn good lefty. He was 'only' 250ish and his weight did him well, didn't it? You remember all of those back and knee problems he had, don't you?

I do NOT want that anywhere NEAR my rotation.

Osiagledknarf
08-07-2008, 03:10 AM
I hate all the fat jokes about CC. We get it hes not jakked with a six pack. But hell hes a lefty pitcher who flat out dominates. How can anyone say they dont want CC on this team??? The money and years is the only issue. Hes going to command a whole lot of money. Zito money?? Maybe more considering Zito is grabage htis season. If we signed CC we would easily have one of the best rotations i think ive ever seen. Daisuke at 12-2(although a weird 12-2) would be a THIRD STARTER!! John Lester whos looking like the real deal and then some would be number 4. And then its take your pick wiht the fifth spot. Bucholz/Wake/Bowden....My god.


When has being a left-handed pitcher ever been a huge selling point at Fenway Park? I don't want Sabathia on the Red Sox for alot of reasons. First, I like the Red Sox, and hate seeing them make organizational blunders. Second, it would be a waste of money. Third, we have great pitching youth that probably will garner the same results for millions less. Fourth, Sabathia is going to be an injury risk. As far as doing it to have "one of the best rotations," well...we already do, and it's got upside.



if anything we sign him to keep him away from NY

I think signing a player simply to keep him away from another team could possibly be the worst player development/personnel strategy of all time. Making a move because a player might do well on another team as opposed to carefully acquiring players who will be a good fit is ruinous. It inflates your payroll, drains your farm system, leads to fragmented clubhouses, and more often than not doesn't add many, if any, wins in the standings. It sounds like the Yankees...and I FRIGGIN hate the Yankees.



with a guy of CC's talent on the market and you have the money for him how could you not try for him?

Because it would be a waste of money, and essentially consist of giving a long term contract to a guy you don't need with uncertain health prospects and plugging him into a rotation that is already full of high quality talent.

"All this no room for him talk" is well founded.

chomaru
08-07-2008, 05:39 AM
Anyone thats worried if we have enough cash to spend should really take a look at lil'papi's thread about how the Red Sox are a international marketing juggernaut. It basically says we have the right to print money...

Osiagledknarf
08-07-2008, 06:56 AM
Anyone thats worried if we have enough cash to spend should really take a look at lil'papi's thread about how the Red Sox are a international marketing juggernaut. It basically says we have the right to print money...

I don't think anyone is denying that the Red Sox have a large amount of money in their budget.

Just because you have money doesn't mean you should waste it on inadvisable player acquisitions at the expense of a balanced roster or that you are obligated to go over the luxury tax threshhold. No matter how much money the Sox have, they should spend it wisely.

Osiagledknarf
08-07-2008, 06:58 AM
Besides, look at the problems a gigantic payroll (brought about by impulsive free agent signing) have created for the Yankees. No thanks.

RedSoxtober
08-07-2008, 08:38 AM
Take a deep breath everyone. This is starting to get a little too heated. By all means keep debating but don't take things too personally.


I'm really not sure there's a ton of incentive for Theo and co. to go after CC. I mean, like you said above, we've already got 5 terrific starting pitchers, and that's already taking Masterson out of the picture, assuming Schilling doesn't try a comeback and adding in Bowden gives us 8 very good starters. I'd imagine the Sox stay pretty dormant this offseason, with the exception of making a few moves to shore up the bullpen.

I don't think that Schilling's desires to play baseball will have any impact on the Sox whatsoever. I think he coerced the Sox into a deal with several actions at the end of last season and then "coming back" to ride the 60-day DL train all year put a very bad taste in the Sox' mouths. He's history in BOS.


you are right their lineup is pretty much set, i also mentioned that in my post. As for arbitration... i don't pretend to be a genius with this, but what has been the highest arbitration ruling? wasn't it Ryan howard at 10 mil a year after his NL MVP season? I don't think any of our guys are gunna get nearly that much... Like i said i'm not a genuis on these things and i'm no even sure how it works as far as who is eligible and for how long... so what do you see as the contracts for those players mentioned? btw i didn't add MDC cuz that's a laugh, he won't get a lot in arbitration... plus, hasn't Theo never gone to arbitration?

Just as background, there are lots of ways to get there and the deals are not directly comparable. The type of arbitration that we're talking about here (and most often) is when a player with less than six years of service in MLB is offered arbitration to determine his contract value. Players who have completed 3, 4, and 5 years of service have that right (prior to that the club has complete discretion). At each year of service time the players get to compare themselves to an increasingly large pool of other players to determine their value: 3yr guys compare to the current class of 3yr guys, 4yr guys to everyone from all time with 4yrs of service, and 5yr guys compare to all MLB. Their reward varies a great deal as the pool of comparisons increases.

It was Soriano, not Howard, that set the record in this type of arbitration. He asked for $12M, lost his case, and still set the record at $10M.

FWIW, there is also arbitration that is offered to players with FA rights when their contract expires. It's usually a procedural move by the team because the players can typically get more on the open market with several teams bidding than they can through arbitration. The biggest showdown that I remember was when the Braves offered Maddux arbitration in 2003 and he accepted. Maddux claimed $16M, Braves countered with $13.5M, and they settled in the middle before the case was heard.

And just to clarify his record, Theo has been involved with arbitration. The process is that the players and team negotiate up to a certain date and then submit the values that they think are fair to an independent arbitrator. The arbitrator's job is to decide whether the players value is closer to the player's or the clubs and whoever is closer wins. The team and player present their case in a hearing to help the arbitrator to decide but player and team continue to negotiate right up until the hearing. What Theo has not done is go through an arbitration hearing; he's settled with every player before the hearing.


this is what I think will happen..
Lugo..traded for (nothing)
Crisp..traded
Lowell...will be kept
Cash..traded
Timlin...released
Masterson or Buchholz will be traded
we will receive (IDK who it will be but this will be our wishlist)
A big bat
a back up catcher
and CC!!

There are a few problems with this:
* With Moss traded, there is no one ready to fill the 4th OF slot if you move Coco
* Cora is about to walk through FA so trading Lugo means you need to address the IF UT slot (you can still do it, you just need to add it to the list)
* Cash can't or won't be traded -- he's on a one year deal

I do believe the Sox will talk to CC but won't sign him. I'm not as much in fear of his weight but I am afraid of his contract demands. Somewhere around roughly 100% of the long term (5yrs+) contracts given to pitchers in their thirties have been a bad deal for the team by the time the contract ended. If the Sox could get him at around $75M/4yr they'd probably be willing to do that (and I wouldn't complain too much). If not, they'll at least drive the deal up that high for the competition.

lil'papi
08-07-2008, 09:54 AM
Man I've gotten an aneurysm.....and dyslexia...and frontal lobe hemorrhages........and my spell check does too.

IF they already went after Sabathia , FACT, then why wouldn't they dabble in getting him as a FA. Bowden isn't a sure thing, Buchholz is FAR from a sure thing. Lester is one, Dicek is the shakiest pitcher on the planet, Beckett for all the adulation is 10-8 and Wakefield is well old.

I'm not sold they get CC , but I'm sold they try.

His weight must be assigned to his height he is 6'7" and a huge man. IF, he weighed 250 he would be a rail. His arm is my worry not his size. (how many games wells win btw)
He has rarely if ever been injured yet people assign injury to him. Beckett can get hurt too, same with EVERY pitcher.

His agent like Tex's can ask for the moon they still have to debate GM's about it. ;)

To NOT say he would be fun to watch in our rotation is moronic. He would create more competition which pitchers love and IMO that's hurt Beckett this year not having Schilling to mess with.

How would he fit in ~nicely~ if the dollars make sense. I believe the NYY's back up the brinks truck though. But, as mentioned that's a good strategy. IF, people here think we don't do that because it's ruinous they haven't paid attention. WE MUST drive the price up to limit what they(NYY) can do and afford. It HAS done what they wanted look at their roster. Old, longterm deals.....and 250mil w/tax. We HAVE hurt them and will continue too.

It's not ruinous for us as long as we don't get the player.

DiceK we coveted and NYY drove our price skyhigh. But that money didn't count against payroll. (we won)

OK, lets play devils advocate. Why can't LOWELL be traded? Why can't DREW? Why can't Coco? Fans love Lowell but if its just about business then Teixera and Youk on the corners is a better BB team, period.

There is alot more than 29mil being saved too. Remember they are 15mil under last years salaries. Nevermind the cap going up.

Am I convinced we must make a deal, no, but to think we are a great team now is hogwash. We now have the flexibility to be for sure. We need more guys that hit good pitching if that's not evident someone isn't watching.:speechless:

Maineiac
08-07-2008, 10:00 AM
I like the CC idea. Beckett,Dice K, Lester, Wake, Bucholtz are all gonna be back but with the rest they like to give everyone along the way and with injuries and so forth a sixth starter isn't a bad idea. Start the season with Bucholtz and Masterson in the pen and use them for long relief and spot starts as needed.......................
Playoff rotation of Beckett, CC, Lester, Dice K....................We have enough offense for this rotation.

Dirty Dirk41
08-07-2008, 11:40 AM
Because it would be a waste of money, and essentially consist of giving a long term contract to a guy you don't need with uncertain health prospects and plugging him into a rotation that is already full of high quality talent.

"All this no room for him talk" is well founded.

You see what hes doing for the Brewers?? He won the friggin Cy Young award last year. Theres risk injury with every player. We wouldnt be signing CC JUST TO HAVE THE BEST ROTATION.You can never have enough pitching, and pitchin wins W.S. CC, Sheets, ether of those guys could come here and just dominate. We have a Solid lineup except at the C position so either pitcher would have solid run support. I wanna see the Sox go after CC or Sheets in the worst of ways. Hell for all we know Lester could get a serious injury next year. One of our "younger, cheaper" pitchers could have some freak injury. knock on wood that doesnt happen but injuries do occur. CC is a proven winner in this league and on the SOX HE COULD SUCCEED..if we dont sign em i wont be to worried as we'll still be contending for another ring next year either way. But sheets or cc in a sox uniform would just be an awesome sight. for me atleast

Dirty Dirk41
08-07-2008, 11:44 AM
Man I've gotten an aneurysm.....and dyslexia...and frontal lobe hemorrhages........and my spell check does too.

IF they already went after Sabathia , FACT, then why wouldn't they dabble in getting him as a FA. Bowden isn't a sure thing, Buchholz is FAR from a sure thing. Lester is one, Dicek is the shakiest pitcher on the planet, Beckett for all the adulation is 10-8 and Wakefield is well old.

I'm not sold they get CC , but I'm sold they try.

His weight must be assigned to his height he is 6'7" and a huge man. IF, he weighed 250 he would be a rail. His arm is my worry not his size. (how many games wells win btw)
He has rarely if ever been injured yet people assign injury to him. Beckett can get hurt too, same with EVERY pitcher.

His agent like Tex's can ask for the moon they still have to debate GM's about it. ;)

To NOT say he would be fun to watch in our rotation is moronic. He would create more competition which pitchers love and IMO that's hurt Beckett this year not having Schilling to mess with.

How would he fit in ~nicely~ if the dollars make sense. I believe the NYY's back up the brinks truck though. But, as mentioned that's a good strategy. IF, people here think we don't do that because it's ruinous they haven't paid attention. WE MUST drive the price up to limit what they(NYY) can do and afford. It HAS done what they wanted look at their roster. Old, longterm deals.....and 250mil w/tax. We HAVE hurt them and will continue too.

It's not ruinous for us as long as we don't get the player.

DiceK we coveted and NYY drove our price skyhigh. But that money didn't count against payroll. (we won)

OK, lets play devils advocate. Why can't LOWELL be traded? Why can't DREW? Why can't Coco? Fans love Lowell but if its just about business then Teixera and Youk on the corners is a better BB team, period.

There is alot more than 29mil being saved too. Remember they are 15mil under last years salaries. Nevermind the cap going up.

Am I convinced we must make a deal, no, but to think we are a great team now is hogwash. We now have the flexibility to be for sure. We need more guys that hit good pitching if that's not evident someone isn't watching.:speechless:

What i was trying to say.....


if we dont get CC WELL BE FINE. but how can any1 say THEY DONT WANT CC. its just silly. ANYONE we sign is going to get alot of money. Every year the price for players increases. Players arent gunna be cheap and CC is one of the best pitchers in baseball. if anything he deserves the money hes goin to make. hes a cy young winner

sboyajian
08-07-2008, 12:23 PM
His weight must be assigned to his height he is 6'7" and a huge man. IF, he weighed 250 he would be a rail. His arm is my worry not his size. (how many games wells win btw)
He has rarely if ever been injured yet people assign injury to him. Beckett can get hurt too, same with EVERY pitcher.


most logical thing said in this thread.. I know a few people that are 6'7".. one of them weighs 230 and his coach wants him up to 250-260 because he is to skinny right now. I think CC could stand to shed about 15 - 20.. but to say he's a "big fat man" is certainly not the case, not when you are 6' 7".

gosawks
08-07-2008, 11:04 PM
Wakefield to the bullpen...?

So, what happens then. We have to carry three catchers for every game? Say Varitek starts a Beckett start. He goes 6, and Wakefield comes in. Bring Cash (or whoever they get to catch the knuckleball) in for the inning or two Wakefield throws... and then insert a third catcher for the ninth? I don't know. Putting Wakefield in the pen seems to add more to the roster than just Wakefield in the pen. Unless we just hope that Varitek can catch the knuckleball. I know he had to for a few weeks a few years ago when Mirabelli was out, but I also remember crapping my pants in 2004 in extra innings and runners on base with Varitek trying to trap that knuckler.

celticfan
08-08-2008, 10:25 AM
I think that CC can really help our rotation and we go to the NL where pitchers can hit he can be a pinch hitter too. I don't think that the brewers will resign him, and the yankees I think are frontrunners

y2shoes
08-08-2008, 10:58 AM
We will make a big splash looking for a younger catcher to take the ease off of Tek next year. Plus Wakefield might be moved to the pen depending on if he stays healthy. Plus i think this is the last year we will see Timlin in a red soxs uniform.
Plus they might go after a younger hard hitting outfielder to play the corner outfields incase one of those guys get hurt next year. Cause i am pretty sure Coco will be gone after this season so we do need a 4th outfielder.

RedSoxtober
08-08-2008, 12:30 PM
Wakefield is never going to the pen. Never, never, never. Please STOP!

Wake is 42. If he returns he's a starter. If he's not a starter he doesn't return.

I feel pretty confident that the Sox will make the decision easy for him in a year or two. When they are confident that the kids can adequately replace him they'll let him know that they don't plan to pick up his option and allow him to announce his retirement. In the mean time I am perfectly content getting the team leader in IP with a 3.67era, 1.18whip, and .208 oba at $4M/yr.

Osiagledknarf
08-08-2008, 05:54 PM
Wakefield is never going to the pen. Never, never, never. Please STOP!

Wake is 42. If he returns he's a starter. If he's not a starter he doesn't return.

I feel pretty confident that the Sox will make the decision easy for him in a year or two. When they are confident that the kids can adequately replace him they'll let him know that they don't plan to pick up his option and allow him to announce his retirement. In the mean time I am perfectly content getting the team leader in IP with a 3.67era, 1.18whip, and .208 oba at $4M/yr.

Bravo!

Osiagledknarf
08-08-2008, 06:58 PM
IF they already went after Sabathia , FACT, then why wouldn't they dabble in getting him as a FA. Bowden isn't a sure thing, Buchholz is FAR from a sure thing. Lester is one, Dicek is the shakiest pitcher on the planet, Beckett for all the adulation is 10-8 and Wakefield is well old.

His weight must be assigned to his height he is 6'7" and a huge man. IF, he weighed 250 he would be a rail. His arm is my worry not his size. (how many games wells win btw)
He has rarely if ever been injured yet people assign injury to him. Beckett can get hurt too, same with EVERY pitcher.

To NOT say he would be fun to watch in our rotation is moronic. He would create more competition which pitchers love and IMO that's hurt Beckett this year not having Schilling to mess with.

How would he fit in ~nicely~ if the dollars make sense. I believe the NYY's back up the brinks truck though. But, as mentioned that's a good strategy. IF, people here think we don't do that because it's ruinous they haven't paid attention. WE MUST drive the price up to limit what they(NYY) can do and afford. It HAS done what they wanted look at their roster. Old, longterm deals.....and 250mil w/tax. We HAVE hurt them and will continue too.

It's not ruinous for us as long as we don't get the player.


OK, lets play devils advocate. Why can't LOWELL be traded? Why can't DREW? Why can't Coco? Fans love Lowell but if its just about business then Teixera and Youk on the corners is a better BB team, period.


Beckett's 10-8...okay. He's pitched some games where's he given up 1 or 2 runs and lost or got ND'd. I am just not convinced that because he's not 15-0 that we have to go out and spend money on another expensive pitcher.

Pitchers definitely live off competing with each other...John Lester is going to start pushing Beckett in a big way. I don't know...I guess I'm just not sold on the necessity of it.

That being said, I also never said Sabathia wasn't a very talented pitcher. Nor did I say he wouldn't be fun to watch pitch. I just think 3 or 4 years into that contract, you are really going to start regretting it.

Would he fit in if the dollars make sense? Sure, why not...but they're not going to make sense. And I agree totally that we get involved to drive the price up for other teams, it's a great strategy and I have always thought so. AND I agree that it's not ruinous as long as we don't get the player...that's exactly my point when I say we should take a pass on Sabathia! It's also exactly why I question just how legitimate their interest is when the Sox say they are considering a player.

As far as playing Devil's advocate...I can certainly be as Machiavellian as the next guy. There probably would be takers for Lowell, and provided he doesn't have some kind of no-trade clause, I could handle that deal. It'd be absolutely stone cold, but I could do it. And, if you pulled that off I would be completely and whole-heartedly in favor of going after Teixeira...like, HUGELY in favor of it. Teixeira and Youkilis on the corners would be disgusting. Go for it.

The reason I don't think you can move Drew is because his contract is kinda heavy and I am not sure who'd take him. Besides that he's doing a decent job at the plate and playing A+ defense in one of the toughest right fields in all of baseball. He also posesses under-rated base running skills. So you're getting good value from Drew already...and besides if it's Drew you decide to move you still have the problem of figuring out who you want to play right field...and your options would be Lowell, Youkilis, or Teixeira...eww.

You certainly can move Crisp, and I suspect he could be...but he's your 4th outfielder. So that doesn't free up the roster spot you're looking to free up.



I like the CC idea. Beckett,Dice K, Lester, Wake, Bucholtz are all gonna be back but with the rest they like to give everyone along the way and with injuries and so forth a sixth starter isn't a bad idea. Start the season with Bucholtz and Masterson in the pen and use them for long relief and spot starts as needed.......................
Playoff rotation of Beckett, CC, Lester, Dice K....................We have enough offense for this rotation.


You have a sixth starter already. And a seventh. And an Eighth. Beckett, Matsuzaka, Lester, Wakefield, Buchholz, Masterson, Bowden getting worked in, and you can always bring Colon back for minimal cost. Everyone is upset with Buchholz and his slow progression this year...but if you stick him in the bullpen his development is only going to be slowed even more. Probably the same with Masterson this year...unless you really project him as a bullpen guy, which they don't.



You see what hes doing for the Brewers?? He won the friggin Cy Young award last year. Theres risk injury with every player. We wouldnt be signing CC JUST TO HAVE THE BEST ROTATION.You can never have enough pitching, and pitchin wins W.S. CC, Sheets, ether of those guys could come here and just dominate. We have a Solid lineup except at the C position so either pitcher would have solid run support. I wanna see the Sox go after CC or Sheets in the worst of ways. Hell for all we know Lester could get a serious injury next year. One of our "younger, cheaper" pitchers could have some freak injury. knock on wood that doesnt happen but injuries do occur. CC is a proven winner in this league and on the SOX HE COULD SUCCEED..if we dont sign em i wont be to worried as we'll still be contending for another ring next year either way. But sheets or cc in a sox uniform would just be an awesome sight. for me atleast


Sure, all those guys could get injuries. So could Sabathia and obviously Sheets isn't a pillar of physical health. As much as I am against Sabathia I am even more against Sheets. I'd rather let someone else take that risk. Again, I think I've been pretty open about Sabathia...if you can get him less years.



What i was trying to say.....


if we dont get CC WELL BE FINE. but how can any1 say THEY DONT WANT CC. its just silly. ANYONE we sign is going to get alot of money. Every year the price for players increases. Players arent gunna be cheap and CC is one of the best pitchers in baseball. if anything he deserves the money hes goin to make. hes a cy young winner


I think this presumes we MUST sign some huge name player...and I don't think any of the big name free agents are advisable, sound moves this winter...unless you find a legitimate spot on the roster for Teixeira. Of course the asking price goes up every winter, but at some point you have to put these guys to a current AND prospective cost/benefit analysis...and I think Sabathia fails that unless you can get him for like, $14-$15 million a year and 4 years maximum. Obviously there's alot of disagreement on that, but it's personally the conclusion I come up with.



most logical thing said in this thread.. I know a few people that are 6'7".. one of them weighs 230 and his coach wants him up to 250-260 because he is to skinny right now. I think CC could stand to shed about 15 - 20.. but to say he's a "big fat man" is certainly not the case, not when you are 6' 7".


As far as Sabathia's weight...man, I give up. I can't believe anyone would deny that overweight athletes face a much more significant injury risk than others. And besides, I never said he was "a big fat man" or obese...but he IS overweight. It concerns me.



This is a pretty intense thread, huh? It's going to be exciting in the offseason to see how it all turns out. Whichever way it goes, I am sure the gloating will be merciless. Haha...I can't wait.

lil'papi
08-09-2008, 08:43 AM
Moving
DREW frees up Hollidays spot. :D Moving Lowell gives us Tex. Getting CC gives the kids more time to develope. Get'er done. Drews contract would only have two years left. where are all the Drew lovers saying his value is sky high? Didn't think so. His contract after this year is very movable, will it happen , no.

I'm pretty sure this current team isn't that good. We aren't going to win a WS this year , notta chance. As much as I wish for it......

I see major weaknesses and holes in the lineup. Chemistry seems off. Ozzie Guillen mentioned last night we just pitch around Ortiz. Does that TELL Theo something? Does me.

Make it so he can't!

Mark Buerhle should have gotten lit up last night. We didn't touch him. Straight FB's ....normally get crushed. We just seem either out of sync or we simply aren't that good.

The whole gist of this is how we finish this year. If we suck it up we spend some coin, if we roll at some point, we make minor moves and a serious BP move or two.

the end....

gosawks
08-09-2008, 01:24 PM
Wakefield is never going to the pen. Never, never, never. Please STOP!

Thank you. I hoped my post made sense to someone...

bagwell368
08-09-2008, 03:19 PM
most logical thing said in this thread.. I know a few people that are 6'7".. one of them weighs 230 and his coach wants him up to 250-260 because he is to skinny right now. I think CC could stand to shed about 15 - 20.. but to say he's a "big fat man" is certainly not the case, not when you are 6' 7".

I'm 6' 8" and 290, in my prime 235, and CC weighs 260-285 range period. I'd guess 272.

lilboytwister99
08-09-2008, 04:54 PM
Who isnt gonna be going for CC in the offseason? I honestly think the Red Sox are GREAT with the pitching they have now, and I dont think the team really needs CC. Yankees may go for him, but when it comes down to it, I dont know for sure that CC may go for NY. Besides, I hear all this garbage about Manny wanting to go to NY, which I think is a bunch of nonsense.

I dont see CC getting signed by Milwaukee. He will demand a lot of money. Wish the Astros could snag him in the offseason, it might make for an interesting 2009!

Id rather see yall spend the money that CC demands on younger talent and keeping an impressive farm system.

Later yall! Keep rockin!

Osiagledknarf
08-09-2008, 09:40 PM
Moving
DREW frees up Hollidays spot. :D Moving Lowell gives us Tex. Getting CC gives the kids more time to develope. Get'er done. Drews contract would only have two years left. where are all the Drew lovers saying his value is sky high? Didn't think so. His contract after this year is very movable, will it happen , no.

I'm pretty sure this current team isn't that good. We aren't going to win a WS this year , notta chance. As much as I wish for it......

I see major weaknesses and holes in the lineup. Chemistry seems off. Ozzie Guillen mentioned last night we just pitch around Ortiz. Does that TELL Theo something? Does me.

Make it so he can't!

Mark Buerhle should have gotten lit up last night. We didn't touch him. Straight FB's ....normally get crushed. We just seem either out of sync or we simply aren't that good.

The whole gist of this is how we finish this year. If we suck it up we spend some coin, if we roll at some point, we make minor moves and a serious BP move or two.

the end....


Ugh...haha, we disagree. Has Holliday ever played right field? And didn't Drew get a 5 year deal...which would leave 3 years after this one? Besides, if you trade Drew and Lowell just to replace them with new guys...every prospective free agent you want to bring in for the near future is going to have that in their head. "Yeah, I can sign here but they're just going to trade me as soon as the next fad pops up. Screw that." I think it sets a bad precedent. I could buy moving Lowell, even though I love him, to bring in Teixeira. That would make sense business-wise and baseball-wise. If you trade Drew I think it makes you a little more imbalanced...because your replacement would be Holliday and you'd be getting a right-handed hitter heavy lineup. If his value isn't "sky-high," that certainly doesn't make Drew so easy to move at $15 million+ per year anyway. We agree he's not going anywhere anyway, haha.

I don't think the current team is terrible. The pitching has actually been decent. Beckett, Matsuzaka, and Lester are all pitching well and Wakefield is his usual self. The defense looks decent. I think the lineup will take a little time adapting to the void left by Manny, but they will adapt. Could they use Teixeira...sure. And like I said, if you can move Lowell...go for it. But no one is going to replace Manny, and you are still going to have nights where you get shut out by the Mark Buerhle's of the world. It happens.

No matter what happens, I think you're right...definitely bullpen related moves this offseason.

The other stuff...I'm obviously hoping they take a more conservative, measured approach...with a few exceptions. I guess we'll see!

lil'papi
08-10-2008, 09:41 AM
We agree, basically.

I just feel our ending this year decides our beginning next year.
The money is another factor. You simply can't raise ticket prices and have a 100mil payroll while the team overall is making 450mil per....or whatever ridiculous number it is.....

They must stay near the cap and eating Lugo's coin will add to it. We must over take the TB Rays too. I believe CC would suffice and BP arms. ;)

Yankees will be on a spending spree positively. So if we stand pat will these other two teams over take us? Looks to me its a possibility they can't ignore.

athlete9393
08-10-2008, 10:13 AM
buch and then move wake to the pen. he would be a nasty long reliever.

athlete9393
08-10-2008, 10:15 AM
Ugh...haha, we disagree. Has Holliday ever played right field? And didn't Drew get a 5 year deal...which would leave 3 years after this one? Besides, if you trade Drew and Lowell just to replace them with new guys...every prospective free agent you want to bring in for the near future is going to have that in their head. "Yeah, I can sign here but they're just going to trade me as soon as the next fad pops up. Screw that." I think it sets a bad precedent. I could buy moving Lowell, even though I love him, to bring in Teixeira. That would make sense business-wise and baseball-wise. If you trade Drew I think it makes you a little more imbalanced...because your replacement would be Holliday and you'd be getting a right-handed hitter heavy lineup. If his value isn't "sky-high," that certainly doesn't make Drew so easy to move at $15 million+ per year anyway. We agree he's not going anywhere anyway, haha.

I don't think the current team is terrible. The pitching has actually been decent. Beckett, Matsuzaka, and Lester are all pitching well and Wakefield is his usual self. The defense looks decent. I think the lineup will take a little time adapting to the void left by Manny, but they will adapt. Could they use Teixeira...sure. And like I said, if you can move Lowell...go for it. But no one is going to replace Manny, and you are still going to have nights where you get shut out by the Mark Buerhle's of the world. It happens.

No matter what happens, I think you're right...definitely bullpen related moves this offseason.

The other stuff...I'm obviously hoping they take a more conservative, measured approach...with a few exceptions. I guess we'll see!

i agree with you, drew had an awesome year this year. and we should look at getting pitching this year as well as a third base and catching prospect.

Osiagledknarf
08-10-2008, 12:12 PM
We agree, basically.

I just feel our ending this year decides our beginning next year.
The money is another factor. You simply can't raise ticket prices and have a 100mil payroll while the team overall is making 450mil per....or whatever ridiculous number it is.....

They must stay near the cap and eating Lugo's coin will add to it. We must over take the TB Rays too. I believe CC would suffice and BP arms. ;)

Yankees will be on a spending spree positively. So if we stand pat will these other two teams over take us? Looks to me its a possibility they can't ignore.

Ehhh...the Rays have done it overwhelmingly with prospects and cheap signings. The Yankees have been on a spending spree for a decade and have exactly 0 championships since they started signing every big name they saw. What's more, their chances to win another this year are limited by the fact that they have a roster full of old, injured players. So I guess I'm not convinced that we'll be overtaken...the Rays certainly could...but they're doing it with a miniature payroll. So what does that say?

Win OR Lose, I'm not opposed to making a big signing...IF it's a special player. I could take adding to payroll as long as the return justifies the outlay. You know, a player like Lugo...haha.

lil'papi
08-11-2008, 08:17 AM
Why do you keep bringing up Yankeee signings because I want CC? Are you forgetting they bought tons of players since before you were born.
I remember them buying the Oakland A's roster at one point. They won a whole bunch of games too. They were horrendous for years until they did the buying sprees. ;)

They've won the division like ten times in a row. All kinds of luck plays into winning a WS ring.

We need to mix in FA's with our system, period. We don't have every answer in our system, nor will we.

CC looks better to me every time I see Buchholz throw or Wake go down with a bad back. We could use one more stud.
Maybe he is in our system and needs time, but this would give us it.
I don't want EVERY bigname. I would like them to objectively look at a few signings that look to me to be well , on the weak side. A couple of the prospects aren't going to pan out either. life...

Osiagledknarf
08-11-2008, 09:20 AM
I'm not opposed to free agent signings at all! Some really appeal to me. And I certainly am not under the impression that we have every answer within our own system. I just am not convinced of Sabathia.

I cite the Yankees because in my baseball watching lifetime, I've seen the free agent orgy come back and bite them pretty hard. I'm sure it's a cyclical pattern, but it just seems to create problems I'd rather not deal with...especially with today's agents and today's contracts. I mean, I LOVE the Sox, and I would love for them to have 5 aces out there...but I think you have to make the right choices. Obviously I don't think Sabathia is the guy.

Would it be the end of the world for me if we got Sabathia...of course not. I am sure he'd have at least a couple good years here...I just worry about the back end of the contract.

RedSoxtober
08-11-2008, 10:06 AM
Would it be the end of the world for me if we got Sabathia...of course not. I am sure he'd have at least a couple good years here...I just worry about the back end of the contract.

I agree with that. Contrary to Tragedy, I think Sheets would do well in BOS and would be a better sign than CC. He likely gets shorter offers which fits into the Sox' mold. I think that he's really past the injury issues, too. His DL time last year was freak injuries.

acecrusher06
08-11-2008, 01:41 PM
wow some interesting suggestions. but yeah sox got enough...what we need is some offense....

JWalk126
08-11-2008, 05:37 PM
I just realized that CC has a Sabbatical ring to his last name

Osiagledknarf
08-11-2008, 07:36 PM
Sheets still scares me, but when he's on he's nasty. I'd almost consider it if you could get him for 3 years at a reasonable rate, plus incentives. I think that would be fair to both sides.

I wish there was someway to improve the offense instead. I've been trying to think of ways to find room for Teixeira, haha...it's a dream but I think it'd be awesome. I honestly think our pitching has been pretty good overall...we're not giving up alot of runs. In fact...in August, opponents are averaging only 2.9 runs a game on us. Our offense seems lethargic and the LOB's are killing us.

Side note, I just got back from Shea Stadium...where I watched the Mets give up a late inning 4 run lead to the Pirates...

Thank Christ we don't have their bullpen woes...Eesh.

RedSoxtober
08-12-2008, 07:38 AM
Side note, I just got back from Shea Stadium...where I watched the Mets give up a late inning 4 run lead to the Pirates...

Thank Christ we don't have their bullpen woes...Eesh.

Seems like they've done that a lot this year. To turn the old ABC Wide World of Sports phrase, "Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory."

lil'papi
08-12-2008, 08:05 AM
Sheets still scares me, but when he's on he's nasty. I'd almost consider it if you could get him for 3 years at a reasonable rate, plus incentives. I think that would be fair to both sides.

I wish there was someway to improve the offense instead. I've been trying to think of ways to find room for Teixeira, haha...it's a dream but I think it'd be awesome. I honestly think our pitching has been pretty good overall...we're not giving up alot of runs. In fact...in August, opponents are averaging only 2.9 runs a game on us. Our offense seems lethargic and the LOB's are killing us.

Side note, I just got back from Shea Stadium...where I watched the Mets give up a late inning 4 run lead to the Pirates...

Thank Christ we don't have their bullpen woes...Eesh.

Now you want Tex? welcome to the dark side......

Might as well throw in Holliday too. CC for an orderve. Jeez we will be like the Yankees....except much better. :p

lil'papi
08-12-2008, 08:05 AM
BTW, 16 straight one run losses on the road new team record to be proud of........

KingPapelbon
08-12-2008, 11:43 AM
I can't see any possibly scenario in which Epstein signs Sabathia. He's a CLASSIC breakdown candidate. Anybody that gives him 7-8 years is going to really regret it once 2010-2011 gets here.

Just my opinion as to how the 2009 rotation/pitching staff looks:

Let's identify what we know, 100% stone cold lock will be in bold, in regular font will be how I see other's falling into place, and italics will be free agent signings

Rotation:
1. Josh Beckett
2. Daisuke Matsuzaka
3. Jon Lester
4. Justin Masterson
5. Clay Buchholz/Jason Jennings/Kip Wells

Bullpen:
1. Javier Lopez
2. Manny Delcarmen
3. Hideki Okajima
4. David Aardsma
5. Will Ohman
6. Dan Wheeler
7. Jonathan Papelbon

Depth/Minors:
Kip Wells
Jason Jennings
Michael Bowden
Charlie Zink
David Pauley

** I see Timlin walking away, believe it or not I think Wakefield calls it a career as well as he has lingering shoulder issues **

RedSoxtober
08-12-2008, 01:35 PM
I can't see any possibly scenario in which Epstein signs Sabathia. He's a CLASSIC breakdown candidate. Anybody that gives him 7-8 years is going to really regret it once 2010-2011 gets here.

...

** I see Timlin walking away, believe it or not I think Wakefield calls it a career as well as he has lingering shoulder issues **

I am concerned about CC but not necessarily about the breakdown. And I agree about Timlin and Wake. Running into the DL again at the end of the season IMO will cause him to tip the scales towards retirement.

Dirty Dirk41
08-12-2008, 01:48 PM
Why do you keep bringing up Yankeee signings because I want CC? Are you forgetting they bought tons of players since before you were born.
I remember them buying the Oakland A's roster at one point. They won a whole bunch of games too. They were horrendous for years until they did the buying sprees. ;)

They've won the division like ten times in a row. All kinds of luck plays into winning a WS ring.

We need to mix in FA's with our system, period. We don't have every answer in our system, nor will we.

CC looks better to me every time I see Buchholz throw or Wake go down with a bad back. We could use one more stud.
Maybe he is in our system and needs time, but this would give us it.
I don't want EVERY bigname. I would like them to objectively look at a few signings that look to me to be well , on the weak side. A couple of the prospects aren't going to pan out either. life...

I AGREE WITH THIS

I dont think signing CC to a 6 or 7 year deal would be good. Id def do a 5 year deal.

Beckett
CC
Dice-K
Lester
Bucholz/Wakefield/Masterson

What a right lefty righty lefty combo. As a fifth starter any of those 3 can be more than serviceable. Bucholz hasnt been even close to good recently but i have faith he can turn it around. CC in a redsox uniform would be great. But ill just wait till the off-season gets here.

celticfan
08-12-2008, 03:06 PM
I like our future rotation and Sabathia would only make us better

lil'papi
08-12-2008, 05:49 PM
I can't see any possibly scenario in which Epstein signs Sabathia. He's a CLASSIC breakdown candidate. Anybody that gives him 7-8 years is going to really regret it once 2010-2011 gets here.



No way we do 7-8 yrs or anyone of right mind and clear conscious. That leaves only Hank Stienburger.:p

Wake imo is close to the end. His flabdominals are killing his back. :speechless:

Osiagledknarf
08-13-2008, 12:53 PM
You know...Brandon Webb is a free agent after next year...haha.

Osiagledknarf
08-13-2008, 12:55 PM
I can't see any possibly scenario in which Epstein signs Sabathia. He's a CLASSIC breakdown candidate. Anybody that gives him 7-8 years is going to really regret it once 2010-2011 gets here.

Just my opinion as to how the 2009 rotation/pitching staff looks:

Let's identify what we know, 100% stone cold lock will be in bold, in regular font will be how I see other's falling into place, and italics will be free agent signings

Rotation:
1. Josh Beckett
2. Daisuke Matsuzaka
3. Jon Lester
4. Justin Masterson
5. Clay Buchholz/Jason Jennings/Kip Wells

Bullpen:
1. Javier Lopez
2. Manny Delcarmen
3. Hideki Okajima
4. David Aardsma
5. Will Ohman
6. Dan Wheeler
7. Jonathan Papelbon

Depth/Minors:
Kip Wells
Jason Jennings
Michael Bowden
Charlie Zink
David Pauley

** I see Timlin walking away, believe it or not I think Wakefield calls it a career as well as he has lingering shoulder issues **

I actually don't have anything to say about all that...I just wanted to say, great homage to Super Troopers. Awesome.

RedSoxRok34
08-13-2008, 10:14 PM
I actually don't have anything to say about all that...I just wanted to say, great homage to Super Troopers. Awesome.

im confused i dont see a super troopers homage there.

Osiagledknarf
08-14-2008, 11:35 AM
im confused i dont see a super troopers homage there.

Haha...it's in his little tag thing at the bottom...I thought if I quoted it, that the tag thing would show up too...but it didn't, and I look like an idiot. Super Troopers is great though, haha.

lil'papi
08-14-2008, 05:28 PM
You know...Brandon Webb is a free agent after next year...haha.

Throw him in there too....

Beckett
CC
Webb
Lester
Sheets
Dicek

I'd roll with that.....:D

Pawtucket would have a serious staff too.

Osiagledknarf
08-14-2008, 08:11 PM
Haha...well, I was suggesting holding off on Sabathia and Sheets in favor of Webb.

RedSoxtober
08-15-2008, 08:26 AM
Haha...well, I was suggesting holding off on Sabathia and Sheets in favor of Webb.

Webb is signed through 2009 ($6.5M) and has an $8.5M club option for 2010. Just a hunch but I think that his option will be picked up. He won't hit FA until 2011.

Tragedy
08-15-2008, 09:51 AM
Webb is signed through 2009 ($6.5M) and has an $8.5M club option for 2010. Just a hunch but I think that his option will be picked up. He won't hit FA until 2011.
Darn.

Okay, back to Sheets/CC!

lil'papi
08-16-2008, 09:02 AM
My hunch is the Sox take one or the other. CC the Yankees according to Gammons will open the vault for....for those not wanting him hope you enjoy facing him.

Sheets might be a consolation prize. hehehe

Yankees will be buyers after this year, bigtime. We all know dropping payroll under 250/w-tax ain't happenin.

RS will make them pay an exorbanent price and he might get 7-8 yrs at 20mil.... 150-160mil thats peanuts ..if you consider ARods deal. :D

Two guys combined salary higher than some countries GNP.