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SAVAGE CLAW
08-06-2008, 12:08 AM
Ok, there are people that Claim that Nba was much better in the 80s, and i m one of them.

How could We compare this two decades?

Well let me try my way, i will compare current best 3 players in each team with the top 3 players on the SAME team in the 89-90 season (I use this year in order to see those drafted between 78 to 84 being PRIME just like the Duncans or Kobes are right now )and ill rank them as if they were playing a 7 game series, Remember that Raptors, Grizzlies and Bobcats didnt Exist back then.

So this is It:

76: Igoudala,Miller,Brand vs Barkley,Hawkins,Dawkins 4-3 Current.

Celtics: Kg,Pierce,Allen vs Chief,Bird,Mchale 3-4 Oldies but 7h game was OT.

Knicks: Marbury?Crawford?Curry? vs Ewing,Oakley,Newman 0-4 Oldies.

Bullets: Arenas,Butler,Jamison vs Jeff Malone, Bernard King, Williams 4-2 Curr.

Heat: Wade,Beasley,Marion vs Seikaly,Rice,Douglas 4-1 Current.

Nets: Carter,Harris,Lopez vs Bowie,Hinson,Hopson 4-0 Current.

Pistons: Billups,Prince,Rip vs Thomas,Dumars,Aguirre 2-4 Oldies.

Bulls: Deng,Rose,Gordon? vs MJ,Pippen,Cartwright 0-4 Oldies +30 points every game.

Bucks: Redd,Jeffersson,Bogut vs Pierce,Sikma,Alvin Robertson 3-4 Oldies.

Cavs: Lebron,Wallace,Ilgauskas vs Ron Harper,Price,Daugherty 0-4 Oldies.

Pacers: Tj,Granger,Dunleavy vs Reggie,Person (Chuck) Schrempf 0-4 Oldies.

Hawks: Bibby,Smith,Hoford vs Wilkins, Willis, Mo Malone 0-4 Oldies.

Magic: Howard,Lewis,Turkoglu vs Catledge,Theus, Smith 4-0 Current.

Spurs: TD,TP,Manu vs Robinson,Cummings Strickland 4-1 Current.

Jazz: Deron,Boozer,AK47 vs Stockton,Malone,Griffith 2-4 Oldies.

Mavs: Dirk,Josh,Terry vs Blackman, Harper,Perkins 1-4 Oldies.

Nuggets: Melo,Iverson,Smith vs Lever,English,Davis 0-4 Oldies.

Rockets: Ming,Artest,T-Mac vs Olajuwon,Thorpe,Wiggins 4-2 Current.

Wolves:Jefferson,Love,???? vs Corbin,Sam Mitchell,T Campbell 4-2 Current.

Hornets: Paul,West,Peja vs Gilliam,Chapman,Curry. 4-0 Current.

Lakers : Kobe,Pau,Bynum vs Magic,Worthy,Scott 2-4 Oldies.

Blazers: Roy,Aldrige,Oden vs Clyde,Porter,Duckwort 1-4 Oldies.

Suns: Nash,Shaq,Stou vs K Johnson,Chambers,Hornacek 4-3 Current very Close.

Sonics: Durant,Green,Ridnour vs Ellis,McDaniel,Mckey 2-4 Oldies.

Warriors: Maggette,Ellis,Jackson vs Run Tmh 0-4 Oldies.

Clippers: Davis,Camby,Davis vs Manning, Norman, Benjamin 4-0 Current.

Kings: Martin,Miller,Udrih vs Tisdale,Ainge,Carr 3-4 Oldies.


So the final score is Current 11 vs Oldies 15, having on account that 4 of the Current victories are over expansion teams on their 1st or second season in the league (Wolves,Hornets,Heat,Magic).

The Number of Sweeps is Current vs Oldies 4-7, but taking on account again that 2 of the current sweeps are over expansion teams.

And the total number of victories is Current 61 vs Oldies 78 .

Well i guess its safe to assume the league was Greater back on the day.

Now the question is, How did the level go down?, Why?.

Maby it isnt that the world is catching up but that America is going down?.

lakers4sho
08-06-2008, 12:17 AM
80s was a really great decade. It would be unfair to compare most players now with the greats back then.

Main reason is that now players are relying too much on their athleticism. Not using their IQs anymore. And back then there wasn't much defense, and most of the times the teams were on a scoring rampage, so some "average" players on today's standards would be averaging 20-30 points a game back then.

Kyle N.
08-06-2008, 12:18 AM
Wow, that's a pretty good list. I don't think the level went down that much. I just think the 89-90 season had some good players.

SAVAGE CLAW
08-06-2008, 12:24 AM
In reality i would have liked to use 87-88 or 88-89 where you could even find players like Kareem , they were even more Solid than this one, but there were many less teams no Heat no Magic, No Wolves so i used the most similar in Numbers.

And take on account i had to leave out players that were absolute beasts because they where no Top three on their teams like Kiki Vandeweghe, Roy Tarpley, Orlando Wooldridge , Vern Fleming, Sam Elliot, Vernon Maxwell, Thurl Bailey............

GregOden#1
08-06-2008, 12:32 AM
That's a really really bad way to compare era's...

SAVAGE CLAW
08-06-2008, 12:42 AM
That's a really really bad way to compare era's...


Ok, give me some reasoning on why?.

:)

lakers4sho
08-06-2008, 12:56 AM
Just check the NBA's Greatest Shooting Guards thread in the NBA Comparisons forum. Total comparison of two different eras :D

GregOden#1
08-06-2008, 01:22 AM
Ok, give me some reasoning on why?.

:)

Well apart from it being completely subjective, your also subconsciously looking at players careers and comparing them. Guys like Sikma and Bird were nearing the end of their careers, but psychologically you see those names and go "wow HOFers!!". Then there are guys that just started their career, DRob and Kevin Johnson but again you look at that and go "wow HOFers!!".

Go back 7 years and compare the 99-00 Blazers to any team in the NBA today. You got Rasheed, multiple time allstar and MVP candidate, Scottie Pippen, HOFer, Sabonis, HOFer, Jermaine O'Neal, possible HOFer, Detlef Schrempf, multiple time allstar, Steve Smith, allstar. And other guys that had solid careers like Bonzi Wells and Damon Stoudamire. At face value you'd think that team was a GOAT candidate, but alot of those guys were just starting, or just ending their careers. So its really not fair to do it that way.

Hellcrooner
08-06-2008, 03:51 AM
You should have put Woolridge instead of Scott on the lakes...

He was sick!!!

lakersincebirth
08-06-2008, 03:57 AM
This time 20 years ago, lakerfans are still celebrating while magic aint celibating!!!

Chronz
08-06-2008, 04:04 AM
This time 20 years ago, lakerfans are still celebrating while magic aint celibating!!!
Dick move man, very shady

DaddyCool
08-06-2008, 04:11 AM
Dick move man, very shady

Agreed but I laughed at the comment. BTW I agree with Greg Oden on how this wasn't that great of a way to compare it.

abc123
08-06-2008, 04:45 AM
You cant compare the two eras. The current generation players are still completing their career, while the 80s already achieved numerous MVP, championships, and awards. The second reason includes how league has completely changed. the rules, playing style, talent, young ballers looking to get paid, athleticism, basketball iq, and the way "business" drives our league is completely different from back then.

Lakersfan2483
08-06-2008, 04:48 AM
Hard way to compare eras, but I will say this, the 80's was the greatest era for basketball. You had the "Showtime" Lakers with Magic, Kareem, and Worthy, the Celtics with Bird, Mchale, and Parrish, the Sixers with Dr. J and M. Malone, the young talent of MJ and Nique starring on their respective teams, the Bad Boy Pistons with Isaiah, Dumars, Rodman, Aguiree and company. The 80's produced some great games.

heyman321
08-06-2008, 04:54 AM
80s was a really great decade. It would be unfair to compare most players now with the greats back then.

Main reason is that now players are relying too much on their athleticism. Not using their IQs anymore. And back then there wasn't much defense, and most of the times the teams were on a scoring rampage, so some "average" players on today's standards would be averaging 20-30 points a game back then.

I'm pretty sure you have it the other way around. There is much less defense TODAY, not back then. If players like Wade and other slashers were playing back then, they wouldn't get so many foul calls. In fact, I'm not sure he would be an All-star let alone a finals MVP. The defense was much greater back then, eg. handchecking was allowed. I'm pretty sure if Kobe Bryant (probably your favourite player), played against the Showtime Lakers, the Big 3, the Bad Boys, and the Blazers/Bulls, he would not be MVP. In today's NBA, everytime someone touches someone else a foul is called.

On anotehr note, like others said, it's funny how the thread maker is comparing players. You're just guessing but I agree that most of hte 80s would whoop today's players.

GregOden#1
08-06-2008, 05:22 AM
Except in the 80s the league saw the highest FG% ever.

Chronz
08-06-2008, 05:45 AM
You guys are too caught up in trying to decide which era is better when what you should focus on is how the players stack up against their contemporaries and their league.

Let me put it this way, CP3 had one of the finest individual season we've EVER seen from a PG both statistically and subjectively. However if you were to put him through the rigors of the pre-handcheck, full on physicality stages of the game then he wouldnt be as effective. A guy like Deron would actually thrive more in that situation than CP3 would. Does that make CP3 any less of a player????

If your thinking yes then I have nothing else to say but CLICK ME (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/login.php?do=logout&logouthash=9183f2b21d129394e5b12a875830f016)

If not then you surely realize that given any situation, the players would adapt, some might thrive abit more but not enough to classify any era as "Weaker"

Just so we're clear though, I think some of the best teams and certainly the most entertaining to watch in NBA history were from the 80's.

lakers4sho
08-06-2008, 11:51 AM
I'm pretty sure you have it the other way around. There is much less defense TODAY, not back then. If players like Wade and other slashers were playing back then, they wouldn't get so many foul calls. In fact, I'm not sure he would be an All-star let alone a finals MVP. The defense was much greater back then, eg. handchecking was allowed. I'm pretty sure if Kobe Bryant (probably your favourite player), played against the Showtime Lakers, the Big 3, the Bad Boys, and the Blazers/Bulls, he would not be MVP. In today's NBA, everytime someone touches someone else a foul is called.

On anotehr note, like others said, it's funny how the thread maker is comparing players. You're just guessing but I agree that most of hte 80s would whoop today's players.

So a great defense means allowing the other team to score 115+ points?? :confused:

If you were watching films of the 80s, you would see that most shots were uncontested, and a majority of them are layups. Most of the teams just played a run-and-gun type gun, just like the D'Antoni's Suns, to entertain the crowd. That's why the Showtime Lakers existed. Teams averaged more possessions per game before compared to today's game.

And there was no zone defense back then. I think most players now (and before) would agree that they would rather have handchecking rather than zone. Why do you think Jordan was unstoppable? Why do you think now, Carter, who was once an unstoppable slasher, suddenly became ineffective?

GregOden#1
08-06-2008, 04:57 PM
So a great defense means allowing the other team to score 115+ points?? :confused:

If you were watching films of the 80s, you would see that most shots were uncontested, and a majority of them are layups. Most of the teams just played a run-and-gun type gun, just like the D'Antoni's Suns, to entertain the crowd. That's why the Showtime Lakers existed. Teams averaged more possessions per game before compared to today's game.

And there was no zone defense back then. I think most players now (and before) would agree that they would rather have handchecking rather than zone. Why do you think Jordan was unstoppable? Why do you think now, Carter, who was once an unstoppable slasher, suddenly became ineffective?

Nobody would rather have handechecking than zone defense.

stevefrancis
08-06-2008, 08:21 PM
they should make a video game from that season like 87-88 nba live 88 or nba2k88 it would be cool playing with those old players and not having to worry about trades. but put jordan in no reason for always leaving him out.

bagwell368
08-06-2008, 08:39 PM
It's quite true you can't take ever guy at peak in a given decade. Figure on a year you really like, and take that. Oden uses Unseld's rookie year as the best Center year on record, and its a heck of a year, although several of those guys would be PF's now.

I look at teams and to me the best 4 all come out of the 80's, with the earliest possible competitor for that title being the 62 Celts, then the 67 76'ers and 71 Lakers. Obviously at least one MJ team has to be listed, but I don't see them cracking the top 4.

One aside story is that I generally kept my sons from watching pro ball except for a few of the fast break teams in the past few years. They got interested in some of the Celtics DVD's I have and I went right to 85-86, and after two minutes they were both in awe of the passing. They were like its all isolation now, and down tempo, and these guys are running and passing like crazy. Smart boys.

G-Funk
08-06-2008, 08:57 PM
80s was a really great decade. It would be unfair to compare most players now with the greats back then.

Main reason is that now players are relying too much on their athleticism. Not using their IQs anymore. And back then there wasn't much defense, and most of the times the teams were on a scoring rampage, so some "average" players on today's standards would be averaging 20-30 points a game back then.

So true.

G-Funk
08-06-2008, 09:00 PM
Back then players and teams did not play well defense that's why they relied on hard fouls a lot. Todays defense is way more advanced and harder to play against. back then you were able to go one on one, now the best player on every team gets doubled, tripled etc. Now you can say that we are in a platinum era.

G-Funk
08-06-2008, 09:08 PM
Hard way to compare eras, but I will say this, the 80's was the greatest era for basketball. You had the "Showtime" Lakers with Magic, Kareem, and Worthy, the Celtics with Bird, Mchale, and Parrish, the Sixers with Dr. J and M. Malone, the young talent of MJ and Nique starring on their respective teams, the Bad Boy Pistons with Isaiah, Dumars, Rodman, Aguiree and company. The 80's produced some great games.

Well this decade we had Kobe & Shaq, Duncan, Parker and Ginobli, Kevin Garnett,Pierce and Allen, and don't forget about the Pistons with Rasheed, Billups and Rip. and talents like Lebron and Vince

lakers4sho
08-06-2008, 09:13 PM
Nobody would rather have handechecking than zone defense.

Yeah so it was easier to score back then than now.

G-Funk
08-06-2008, 09:15 PM
this is a perfect example to why todays era plays better defense, well is more effective. Besides, if you ask any coach or player and ask witch era had better defense they all say it would be todays but back then b-ball IQ was higher.

Teams figured it out that's why the games are slowed down, they stop the easy layups and fast breaks and would rather defend you half court so they can triple team your best player or guard you one on one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kYBeNQdSCc

DreamShaker
08-06-2008, 09:36 PM
I agree with alot of those if you are considering the primes of each player with a few exceptions....first off all....that Mavs team back in the day was horrible....and today's Mavs would crap all over them....and the Rockets team today would get decimated by any team with Hakeem on it....nobody on the team today would come close to him.....

Hellcrooner
08-07-2008, 01:21 AM
they should make a video game from that season like 87-88 nba live 88 or nba2k88 it would be cool playing with those old players and not having to worry about trades. but put jordan in no reason for always leaving him out.


In fact there was a game

it was by Ea sports , but for some strange reason the rosters were form a seaosn before ?

IT was only Allstar game and Playoffs

You had SOnics,SUns,Jazz and Lakers West and Knicks, BUlls, CEltiocs and Pistons.

It was fun to play back in the day, it was called Celtics vs Lakers and the nba finals.

I won the ship with every team except suns, somehow it was imposible.


Maby because yur center was adnrew lang :P

BillyHoyle35
08-07-2008, 01:41 AM
Nobody would rather have handechecking than zone defense.

I would much prefer having to go against handchecking than a zone defense. Zones are way harder to go against.

ARMIN12NBA
08-07-2008, 02:16 AM
Nobody would rather have handechecking than zone defense.

I would. Do you realize that hand checking happens every game anyways? What some people don't understand is, is that hand checking still goes on in todays game, but it can't be called every play. Zone defense or illegal defenses were called back then (ie 1981 NBA Finals).

Anyways, it is much easier to score and slash to the lane when a player is hand checking than when there is a zone defense clogging up the lanes. Pre-Zone defense eras were much more of a 1 on 1 game. Now, in todays game, there is much more flexibility to double and triple team because of the allowance of the zone defense. I guarantee any player would rather face hand checking (which they see anyways) than double and triple teams as well as more complicated defenses like the zone defense.

GregOden#1
08-07-2008, 02:26 AM
I would. Do you realize that hand checking happens every game anyways? What some people don't understand is, is that hand checking still goes on in todays game, but it can't be called every play. Zone defense or illegal defenses were called back then (ie 1981 NBA Finals).

The only one that is allowed to handcheck is Bruce Bowen. Everybody else gets called for it.

If zone defense was so tough you woudn't be seeying all-time highs in guard/small foward scoring.

ARMIN12NBA
08-07-2008, 02:47 AM
The only one that is allowed to handcheck is Bruce Bowen. Everybody else gets called for it.

If zone defense was so tough you woudn't be seeying all-time highs in guard/small foward scoring.

Not really. I have seen many players get away with hand checks.

Where are the statistics for guard/small forward scoring? Just wondering. I just know that FG% is down from the Pre-Zone Era. The reason is, is because of the zone defense. It is harder to shoot efficiently with the paint being clogged by the zone defense as well as being double and triple teamed.

GSW fan
08-07-2008, 04:54 AM
i think u can match up top two at each position

point
cp3/williams-magic/mullin

sg
kobe/wade-jordan/miller if u count him 80s

sf
lebron/mello-dawkins/bird

pf
kg/duncan-barkley/malone

c
dwight/oden-Olijuwan/ewing

pg 80s
sg 80s
sf current
pf current
c i give it a tie

ARMIN12NBA
08-07-2008, 05:22 AM
i think u can match up top two at each position

point
cp3/williams-magic/mullin

sg
kobe/wade-jordan/miller if u count him 80s

sf
lebron/mello-dawkins/bird

pf
kg/duncan-barkley/malone

c
dwight/oden-Olijuwan/ewing

pg 80s
sg 80s
sf current
pf current
c i give it a tie

How can you call that a tie? Oden has never played in the NBA and Howard has only been in the NBA for four years. Hakeem is a HOF, MVP, 2 Time NBA-Champion, Finals MVP, etc. Ewing is a HOF, 11 time All-Star, 7 All-NBA Teams, etc.

Dwight/Oden <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Hakeem/Ewing

JordansBulls
08-07-2008, 08:24 AM
i think u can match up top two at each position

point
cp3/williams-magic/mullin

sg
kobe/wade-jordan/miller if u count him 80s

sf
lebron/mello-dawkins/bird

pf
kg/duncan-barkley/malone

c
dwight/oden-Olijuwan/ewing

pg 80s
sg 80s
sf current
pf current
c i give it a tie

What the hell?
How is Mullin listed as a PG? And why is Miller over Drexler or Alex English? Dawkins should not be listed over Dr J either.

LakerzDQ
08-07-2008, 08:29 AM
What the hell?
How is Mullin listed as a PG? And why is Miller over Drexler or Alex English? Dawkins should not be listed over Dr J either.

lol.

and every position, 80s>current, except for PF, which is a tie.

Hellcrooner
08-07-2008, 11:57 AM
Mulling plahyiong point? Dawkins sf? wich Dawkins ? Darryl gorilla dawkins the CENTER or johny dawkins the Point GUard???????

Better try this way


Magic >>>Paul

Thomas>>>Deron

Jordan>Kobe

Drexler>Wade

Bird>>>T-mac

Bernard King>>>>>>>Melo

Malone<Tim Duncan

Barkley = Garnett

Olajuwon = Shaq.

Robinson > than any other center in the game no, YEAH including Dwigth.

Hellcrooner
08-07-2008, 11:58 AM
The 80s was so much deeper now that even some centers that where average or bellow average then like Joe Barry Carroll, BIll Lambieer, Blair Rasmussen or Kevin Duckworth would be All stars today.