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View Full Version : Is Paul Pierce a top 15 player? Poll intended for NON Celtics/Lakers fans only!



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MoBASS
08-05-2008, 11:54 AM
A lot of Boston fans are adament that Paul Pierce is a top 10 player in the NBA, if not the "best" :)

Laker fans think mostly think he's an overrated bastard who should be out of the top 20 altogether.

That's why I rounded it out and made it 15. I am looking for an unbiased opinion on the matter. Please let me know what you all think.

If you are a Celtics or Lakers fan please do not vote! This poll will be public and we all know who the homers are from the Paul Pierce handcuffed thread!

Thanks.

daleja424
08-05-2008, 11:58 AM
I am a heat fan...

I voted yes... but I changed my mind. The answer is no. He wasn't a top 15 player until last year when he got two super sidekicks...making his job A LOT easier. He looked like a top 10 player in the playoffs...but as a whole I would put him just outside the top 15

Ph1lly Diehard
08-05-2008, 12:03 PM
Top 20, not 15 I don't think. #16-17 in my opinion

mikedesi1004
08-05-2008, 12:12 PM
i think his is in the top 15

NYMetros
08-05-2008, 12:17 PM
Without a doubt he is. He was amazing before he got Ray and Garnett, a consistent 25 PPG player. Now that he has won a Championship and been the Finals MVP, I think it's pretty obvious he is one of the best in the league.

marlinsfan24
08-05-2008, 12:18 PM
hes 16-17 for me

SHONIE
08-05-2008, 12:28 PM
I won't vote since I'm a celtics fan. But for people saying no... Name 15 players better than he is.

daleja424
08-05-2008, 12:35 PM
in no order: Kobe, Lebron, Paul, Williams, Wade, Howard, Ginobili, KG, Duncan, Amare, Parker, Dirk, T-Mac, AI, Melo, West, Johnson, Bosh, Yao, Davis, Jefferson...hmmm I'll stop b/c I'm at 21 already...

ugottabjoshinme
08-05-2008, 12:36 PM
i would say that he easily is a top 15 player. Looking at his stats from 2000-2007 he averaged around 25 ppg 4ast and 6.5 rpg. his points dropping off this season with the addition of other weapons shows that he is a team player. Easily a top 15 player in the league and one of the top shooting guards

AIMelo=KillaDUO
08-05-2008, 12:39 PM
Daleja i agree with your list, minus... Deron Williams, Joe Johnson, and David West, and Richard JEfferson.

knicks1214
08-05-2008, 12:39 PM
I wouldn't put him in the top 20...Then again, I am a Knicks fan...

ugottabjoshinme
08-05-2008, 12:40 PM
in no order: Kobe, Lebron, Paul, Williams, Wade, Howard, Ginobili, KG, Duncan, Amare, Parker, Dirk, T-Mac, AI, Melo, West, Johnson, Bosh, Yao, Davis, Jefferson...hmmm I'll stop b/c I'm at 21 already...

Pierce is ahead of Ginobli, AI, West, Yao, Jefferson, Johnson, Davis....top 15 sounds about right

BigPapi04
08-05-2008, 12:41 PM
Again I wont vote but he had great seasons with noone around him so it wasnt noticed. Now with a good team you actually see how good he really is. I would not take many of the people you named. When you actually look at what the other players you have named have done you will realize you just named big names not people actually better only about 10 people are right on your list and to even right jefferson whether its al or richard is a joke.

daleja424
08-05-2008, 12:41 PM
Pierce is ahead of Ginobli, AI, West, Yao, Jefferson, Johnson, Davis....top 15 sounds about right

Pierce is better then Manu, Yao, al jefferson, joe johnson, david west, allen iverson, and baron davis... WHHHHATTTT!?!?

daleja424
08-05-2008, 12:43 PM
Again I wont vote but he had great seasons with noone around him so it wasnt noticed. Now with a good team you actually see how good he really is. I would not take many of the people you named. When you actually look at what the other players you have named have done you will realize you just named big names not people actually better only about 10 people are right on your list and to even right jefferson whether its al or richard is a joke.

you think a 21/11/1.5 23 year old center is a joke?

sixers247
08-05-2008, 12:43 PM
I voted No but it is reallllly close.

daleja424
08-05-2008, 12:44 PM
Daleja i agree with your list, minus... Deron Williams, Joe Johnson, and David West, and Richard JEfferson.

Deron is clearly better. Al Jefferson is better IMo. and west and johnson are debatable...

ackar
08-05-2008, 12:44 PM
Yes!

Ph1lly Diehard
08-05-2008, 12:45 PM
in no order: Kobe, Lebron, Paul, Williams, Wade, Howard, Ginobili, KG, Duncan, Amare, Parker, Dirk, T-Mac, AI, Melo, West, Johnson, Bosh, Yao, Davis, Jefferson...hmmm I'll stop b/c I'm at 21 already...

All the bolds are questionable.. I think Pierce is better than all of them right now..

Jefferson I don't know, give him another year and I think he will be better. Johnson is close, same with Davis.

But he's definitally better than West/Parker/Ginobili..

daleja424
08-05-2008, 12:47 PM
All the bolds are questionable.. I think Pierce is better than all of them right now..

Jefferson I don't know, give him another year and I think he will be better. Johnson is close, same with Davis.

But he's definitally better than West/Parker/Ginobili..

Well I disagree...but even if I concede those people that would still put him 16-18 to you... which means hes not top 15...

sixers247
08-05-2008, 12:47 PM
Well even without the bolded names he still would be 16th haha. Definitly close.

BTownTeamsRKing
08-05-2008, 12:49 PM
in no order: Kobe, Lebron, Paul, Williams, Wade, Howard, Ginobili, KG, Duncan, Amare, Parker, Dirk, T-Mac, AI, Melo, West, Johnson, Bosh, Yao, Davis, Jefferson...hmmm I'll stop b/c I'm at 21 already...

ok ill already argued this plenty, but would u really EVERY NAME u got there is better than Paul Pierce? if so than hes more underated than i ever thought.

im not voting on this bc 1. i cant and 2. im interested in this.

heres Pierce's Career stats:

Year Team G .GS .MPG FG% 3P% ..FT% OFF DEFRPG APGSPG BPG TO PF .PPG
98-99 BOS 48 47 34.0 0.439 0.412 0.713 2.4 4.0 6.4 2.4 1.7 1.0 2.35 2.90 16.5
99-00 BOS 73 72 35.4 0.442 0.343 0.798 1.1 4.3 5.4 3.0 2.1 0.9 2.44 3.20 19.5
00-01 BOS 82 82 38.0 0.454 0.383 0.745 1.1 5.2 6.4 3.1 1.7 0.8 3.20 3.10 25.3
01-02 BOS 82 82 40.3 0.442 0.404 0.809 1.0 5.9 6.9 3.2 1.9 1.0 2.94 2.90 26.1
02-03 BOS 79 79 39.2 0.416 0.302 0.802 1.3 6.0 7.3 4.4 1.8 0.8 3.65 2.90 25.9
03-04 BOS 80 80 38.7 0.402 0.299 0.819 0.9 5.7 6.5 5.1 1.6 0.6 3.79 2.90 23.0
04-05 BOS 82 82 36.1 0.455 0.370 0.822 1.0 5.6 6.6 4.2 1.6 0.5 2.80 3.10 21.6
05-06 BOS 79 79 39.0 0.471 0.354 0.772 1.0 5.7 6.7 4.7 1.4 0.4 3.46 2.80 26.8
06-07 BOS 47 46 37.0 0.439 0.389 0.796 0.8 5.1 5.9 4.1 1.0 0.3 3.23 2.60 25.0
07-08 BOS 80 80 35.9 0.464 0.392 0.843 0.7 4.5 5.1 4.5 1.3 0.4 2.76 2.50 19.6
Career -- 732 729 37.6 0.442 0.363 0.795 1.1 5.3 6.4 3.9 1.6 0.6 3.09 2.90 23.1

along with 1 Finals MVP and a sick nickname

ugottabjoshinme
08-05-2008, 12:49 PM
Pierce is better then Manu, Yao, al jefferson, joe johnson, david west, allen iverson, and baron davis... WHHHHATTTT!?!?

David West is a product of Chirs Paul
Compare Manu's stats and you see pierce is better is ppg, ast, and rpg...easy choice
AI is not an all around better player
joe johnson's stats are inflated since he has been the only one on the hawks that is good
baron davis has less ppg and not as good of defense
yao is always hurt
al jefferson will be better eventually but not at this point, plus you cant really compare big men to guards

daleja424
08-05-2008, 12:52 PM
ok ill already argued this plenty, but would u really EVERY NAME u got there is better than Paul Pierce? if so than hes more underated than i ever thought.

im not voting on this bc 1. i cant and 2. im interested in this.

heres Pierce's Career stats:

Year Team G .GS .MPG FG% 3P% ..FT% OFF DEFRPG APGSPG BPG TO PF .PPG
98-99 BOS 48 47 34.0 0.439 0.412 0.713 2.4 4.0 6.4 2.4 1.7 1.0 2.35 2.90 16.5
99-00 BOS 73 72 35.4 0.442 0.343 0.798 1.1 4.3 5.4 3.0 2.1 0.9 2.44 3.20 19.5
00-01 BOS 82 82 38.0 0.454 0.383 0.745 1.1 5.2 6.4 3.1 1.7 0.8 3.20 3.10 25.3
01-02 BOS 82 82 40.3 0.442 0.404 0.809 1.0 5.9 6.9 3.2 1.9 1.0 2.94 2.90 26.1
02-03 BOS 79 79 39.2 0.416 0.302 0.802 1.3 6.0 7.3 4.4 1.8 0.8 3.65 2.90 25.9
03-04 BOS 80 80 38.7 0.402 0.299 0.819 0.9 5.7 6.5 5.1 1.6 0.6 3.79 2.90 23.0
04-05 BOS 82 82 36.1 0.455 0.370 0.822 1.0 5.6 6.6 4.2 1.6 0.5 2.80 3.10 21.6
05-06 BOS 79 79 39.0 0.471 0.354 0.772 1.0 5.7 6.7 4.7 1.4 0.4 3.46 2.80 26.8
06-07 BOS 47 46 37.0 0.439 0.389 0.796 0.8 5.1 5.9 4.1 1.0 0.3 3.23 2.60 25.0
07-08 BOS 80 80 35.9 0.464 0.392 0.843 0.7 4.5 5.1 4.5 1.3 0.4 2.76 2.50 19.6
Career -- 732 729 37.6 0.442 0.363 0.795 1.1 5.3 6.4 3.9 1.6 0.6 3.09 2.90 23.1

along with 1 Finals MVP and a sick nickname

No one asked about Pierces career or his resume. At one point Pierce was probably top 5-6 in the league. That wasn't asked though. The question is about right now. Today, is he top 15...and the answer is no. There are at least 20 people out there that are more productive then him on a nightly basis.

daleja424
08-05-2008, 12:56 PM
David West is a product of Chirs Paul
Compare Manu's stats and you see pierce is better is ppg, ast, and rpg...easy choice
AI is not an all around better player
joe johnson's stats are inflated since he has been the only one on the hawks that is good
baron davis has less ppg and not as good of defense
yao is always hurt
al jefferson will be better eventually but not at this point, plus you cant really compare big men to guards

-what does backing down your man and shooting jumpers over him have to do with Paul. Thats like saying that Duncan is good b/c of Parker. The Paul argument works with Chandler...but not west.
-manu has volunteered to play off the bench... but it is debatable...pierce might be better
-I agree AI is probably not as well rounded... but he is A LOT better at a couple things
-Josh Smith? Al Horford? Mike Bibby? they are all clearly scrubs... NOT. get with the times...
-Davis has MORE ppg, MORE assists... please check your stats
-Yao is always hurt...true... but he is still clearly better
-Al Jeff averages 21/11... and you have to compare big men and guards or how the heck do u make a top 15?

oh and I forgot Arenas on my list... and nash...and roy... maybe even brand?!?!

mitch91
08-05-2008, 12:58 PM
imo he is. its very close though. those of u saying manu parker jefferson etc r better then you guys dont no much about the sport. im from ireland and i no he is def beter than those 3!!

my first post so dont rip me please

CaleX(RR)MIA™
08-05-2008, 12:58 PM
id say no but he is one of the best in the NBA

daleja424
08-05-2008, 01:00 PM
imo he is. its very close though. those of u saying manu parker jefferson etc r better then you guys dont no much about the sport. im from ireland and i no he is def beter than those 3!!

my first post so dont rip me please

since its your first post I wont rip you too hard...but dont question my b-ball knowledge. The NBA is a league about what you can do NOW, not what you did in the past. Right now I would much rather have Jefferson, Manu, or Parker on my team then Pierce...by a lot...

LuCCi
08-05-2008, 01:01 PM
maybe a top 15 mos def not a top ten though top 20 for sure

ee
08-05-2008, 01:03 PM
around in the bottom end of the top 20.....

Drewlius
08-05-2008, 01:04 PM
All the bolds are questionable.. I think Pierce is better than all of them right now..

Jefferson I don't know, give him another year and I think he will be better. Johnson is close, same with Davis.

But he's definitally better than West/Parker/Ginobili..

Davis is better, but Parker is not? If Parker was on a team without Duncan/Ginobilli you would change your mind incredibly fast.

CaleX(RR)MIA™
08-05-2008, 01:05 PM
i think he is around 25ish maybe lower but not in the 30s

JordansBulls
08-05-2008, 01:06 PM
Of course he is. He was the best player on the floor in the finals.

daleja424
08-05-2008, 01:06 PM
by my list I have him around 25 I think...

ugottabjoshinme
08-05-2008, 01:06 PM
-what does backing down your man and shooting jumpers over him have to do with Paul. Thats like saying that Duncan is good b/c of Parker. The Paul argument works with Chandler...but not west.
-manu has volunteered to play off the bench... but it is debatable...pierce might be better
-I agree AI is probably not as well rounded... but he is A LOT better at a couple things
-Josh Smith? Al Horford? Mike Bibby? they are all clearly scrubs... NOT. get with the times...
-Davis has MORE ppg, MORE assists... please check your stats
-Yao is always hurt...true... but he is still clearly better
-Al Jeff averages 21/11... and you have to compare big men and guards or how the heck do u make a top 15?

Baron Davis Career ppg - 17.1
Paul Pierce Career ppg - 23.2

Sorry bud my math skill suck and i forgot that 17.1 > 23.2 Dont tell me to check my stats when you pull ******* out of your *****

And lets use the rookie and the acquired half way through when looking at johnsons career stats with the hawks. Are you serious?

daleja424
08-05-2008, 01:07 PM
Of course he is. He was the best player on the floor in the finals.

you tell me right now you would take pierce b4 the other 25 people I named...

MoBASS
08-05-2008, 01:08 PM
maybe a top 15 mos def not a top ten though top 20 for sure

That about sums it up :D

ee
08-05-2008, 01:08 PM
Baron Davis Career ppg - 17.1
Paul Pierce Career ppg - 23.2

Sorry bud my math skill suck and i forgot that 17.1 > 23.2 Dont tell me to check my stats when you pull ******* out of your *****

And lets use the rookie and the acquired half way through when looking at johnsons career stats with the hawks. Are you serious?

Baron is a PG, a PG can be a top 20 player even if he average just 15ppg.....scoring is secondary for a PG, one reason why Rose was picked 1st instead of Beasley, not because of scoring.....

stlramsgo81
08-05-2008, 01:08 PM
he has to be in the top 15. he was a consistent 23-26 PPG guy since 2000-2001 season. he didn't win because he had nothing to work with, he had walker and a few others but nothing that was a title contender. now that he has a championship and finals MVP to go along with the stats he is easily a top 15 player.

daleja424
08-05-2008, 01:09 PM
Baron Davis Career ppg - 17.1
Paul Pierce Career ppg - 23.2

Sorry bud my math skill suck and i forgot that 17.1 > 23.2 Dont tell me to check my stats when you pull ******* out of your *****

And lets use the rookie and the acquired half way through when looking at johnsons career stats with the hawks. Are you serious?

wTF? who is looking at career stats? Career stats are useless in this man... If career stats meant anything here then shaq would probably be the first person on this list. get outta here with that. The only stats that matter are last years stats smart guy...

ugottabjoshinme
08-05-2008, 01:10 PM
Baron is a PG, a PG can be a top 20 player even if he average just 15ppg.....scoring is secondary for a PG, one reason why Rose was picked 1st instead of Beasley, not because of scoring.....

i totally agree with you. i was just pointing out deja's false argument with the points

mitch91
08-05-2008, 01:10 PM
"since its your first post I wont rip you too hard...but dont question my b-ball knowledge. The NBA is a league about what you can do NOW, not what you did in the past. Right now I would much rather have Jefferson, Manu, or Parker on my team then Pierce.."

are ypu talking about al or richard???
peirce is a beter scorer beter passer beter rebounder than rj
i see the case for people liking al but he was with the t-wolves last year and it was obvious he would put up real good numbers on a weak team like that.

so you are talking about what people do NOW....ok then. and just for the record when did i mention anything about the past present or future?? never! anyway who was beter last year??? you can honestly not tell me that you trully beleve manu or tp has a better season the peirce....

ugottabjoshinme
08-05-2008, 01:11 PM
wTF? who is looking at career stats? Career stats are useless in this man... If career stats meant anything here then shaq would probably be the first person on this list. get outta here with that. The only stats that matter are last years stats smart guy...

pieces points were down last year since he was playing team ball. Look at last 5 years and you will still see that you are wrong..."smart guy"

MoBASS
08-05-2008, 01:12 PM
Wow it's nice to see a player besides Kobe getting loved and hated on so much!

p.s. Richard Jefferson is far worse than Paul Pierce.

daleja424
08-05-2008, 01:13 PM
"since its your first post I wont rip you too hard...but dont question my b-ball knowledge. The NBA is a league about what you can do NOW, not what you did in the past. Right now I would much rather have Jefferson, Manu, or Parker on my team then Pierce.."

are ypu talking about al or richard???
peirce is a beter scorer beter passer beter rebounder than rj
i see the case for people liking al but he was with the t-wolves last year and it was obvious he would put up real good numbers on a weak team like that.

so you are talking about what people do NOW....ok then. and just for the record when did i mention anything about the past present or future?? never! anyway who was beter last year??? you can honestly not tell me that you trully beleve manu or tp has a better season the peirce....

al jefferson...

and how quick we forget about manu. there was a point last year that people were calling for manu as the mvp when duncan and parker were out and he was dropping 30-40...

daleja424
08-05-2008, 01:14 PM
Wow it's nice to see a player besides Kobe getting loved and hated on so much!

p.s. Richard Jefferson is far worse than Paul Pierce.

no one is talkign about RJ... big al is the jefferson I was talking about

daleja424
08-05-2008, 01:14 PM
i totally agree with you. i was just pointing out deja's false argument with the points

it wasnt a false arguement. Baron averaged 21+ and pierce averaged 19+ last year....

SHONIE
08-05-2008, 01:15 PM
i would say that he easily is a top 15 player. Looking at his stats from 2000-2007 he averaged around 25 ppg 4ast and 6.5 rpg. his points dropping off this season with the addition of other weapons shows that he is a team player. Easily a top 15 player in the league and one of the top shooting guards

He's a SF

ugottabjoshinme
08-05-2008, 01:16 PM
it wasnt a false arguement. Baron averaged 21+ and pierce averaged 19+ last year....

once again you cant compare on last years points since pierce was playing team ball. Look at last 5 years ppg and tell me who is a better scorer

daleja424
08-05-2008, 01:19 PM
once again you cant compare on last years points since pierce was playing team ball. Look at last 5 years ppg and tell me who is a better scorer

why would you look at career stats for a guy that is on the wrong side of 30? Again... thats like looking at Shaq's career stats and concluding that he is the best player in the NBA. Most players on my list have other people to share the ball with on their team and still manage to get theirs to...

NYMetros
08-05-2008, 01:21 PM
in no order: Kobe, Lebron, Paul, Williams, Wade, Howard, Ginobili, KG, Duncan, Amare, Parker, Dirk, T-Mac, AI, Melo, West, Johnson, Bosh, Yao, Davis, Jefferson...hmmm I'll stop b/c I'm at 21 already...

None of those guys are better than Pierce. Parker, Dirk, Amare, and Ginobli aren't better either IMO.

CaleX(RR)MIA™
08-05-2008, 01:23 PM
None of those guys are better than Pierce. Parker, Dirk, Amare, and Ginobli aren't better either IMO.

Amare is better than Pierce

BTownTeamsRKing
08-05-2008, 01:23 PM
u know i should have expected that ppl would rank him so low when we had complete idiots saying the nets big 3 was better than Boston's.

or that the Bulls would be contending with us. or that the Celtics stood no chance against the anyone from the West.

or even some ppl who have the dumbass mind to think the WIZARDS 3 are better than Pierce, Allen, Garnett.

or even SOME COMPLETE IDIOT/HATER who was trying to convince ppl that CARON BUTLER IS BETTER than PAUL PIERCE.

we even had RAPTORS fans saying they will beat us in the division and there was even a bet about it, but i guess that was over after november.

and to the Person saying career stats dont matter. fine u can say stats from 5 yrs ago dont matter, but saying stats of LAST YR and the yr before mean nothing is BS.

just remember when comparing Pierce to other players. that player has to be CAPABLE of carrying a team through the playoffs and to a championship. as a Celtics fan, my honest opinion of the Celtics during the playoffs is that when things got tough and we needed baskets, KG shyed away. Ray lost his shot, and who was there to save the day?

Answer: the guy u ppl r saying isnt as good as manu or tony, or tmac (who has won NOTHING with yao ming), al jefferson,

just remember who volounteered to cover Kobe when down 18 at half time and led a furious charge that gave the lakers fans a night to remember.

next ur gonna tell me pau gasol is better or lamar odom bc of is versatility.

BTownTeamsRKing
08-05-2008, 01:25 PM
Amare is better than Pierce

if Amare and Nash are both so MUCH better than Pierce, why the heck couldnt the suns make it out of the 1st rd against an old SAS team that got destroyed by LAL?

ugottabjoshinme
08-05-2008, 01:26 PM
why would you look at career stats for a guy that is on the wrong side of 30? Again... thats like looking at Shaq's career stats and concluding that he is the best player in the NBA. Most players on my list have other people to share the ball with on their team and still manage to get theirs to...

with these 2 guys you can look further back at stats because they came into the league at the same time. Judging Pierce's stats on last year alone is not fair since he had other major weapons on his team. Baron Davis did not...hence this year he had to do more on his own. Judging the two players year to year clearly shows that pierce is a better scorer

MoBASS
08-05-2008, 01:26 PM
Here's my top 20, but unlike you babies I'll put it IN ORDER :)

Go ahead and critique... but if you're gonna bring it, bring the heat!

Note: this is not "starting a franchise," it's who would you want on your team for ONE season.

1. Kobe
2. Lebron
3. Chris Paul
4. Tim Duncan
5. Kevin Garnett
6. Dwyane Wade
7. Amare Stoudemire
8. Deron Williams
9. Dwight Howard
10. Carmelo Anthony
11. Chris Bosh
12. Dirk Nowitzki
13. Yao Ming
14. Gilbert Arenas
15. Carlos Boozer
16. Manu Ginobili
17. Paul Pierce
18. Elton Brand
19. Tracy Mcgrady
20. Joe Johnson

daleja424
08-05-2008, 01:26 PM
I love Pierce. I live in Boston brilliant guy! I am trying to be objective here. This sint hating on Pierce...this is being realistic. Pierce is over 30 and past his prime. He is no longer one of the best 15 players in the league...

NYMetros
08-05-2008, 01:26 PM
Amare is better than Pierce

How so? I haven't see him lead his team to the NBA Finals, even with Steve Nash and Shaq/Shawn Marion. Also, a lot of big men could average 25 PPG when they are playing with as good a passer as Nash.


Not to mention, Amare's defense = weak.

mitch91
08-05-2008, 01:27 PM
al jeferson is noway better than peirce at this time. maybe in the future but not now.

and manu?? sorry i dont think so.
consider this please.....do u trully think that manu could go toe to toe with lbj in the playoffs or kobe??? no!

MoBASS
08-05-2008, 01:28 PM
Answer: the guy u ppl r saying isnt as good as manu or tony, or tmac (who has won NOTHING with yao ming), al jefferson,

just remember who volounteered to cover Kobe when down 18 at half time and led a furious charge that gave the lakers fans a night to remember.

next ur gonna tell me pau gasol is better or lamar odom bc of is versatility.

I agree with some of what you had to say, but I had to put Manu just ahead of PP.. Ginobili's no joke AND he's got those leader qualities you're looking for.

CaleX(RR)MIA™
08-05-2008, 01:29 PM
if Amare and Nash are both so MUCH better than Pierce, why the heck couldnt the suns make it out of the 1st rd against an old SAS team that got destroyed by LAL?

were in my post did i say anything at all about nash?

If i had to build a team id take Amare he's a monster and can only get better

playoffs dont determine how good a player is just look at Karl Malone and John Stockton... 0 championships does that rank them below pierce? i think not

ink
08-05-2008, 01:31 PM
How so? I haven't see him lead his team to the NBA Finals, even with Steve Nash and Shaq/Shawn Marion. Also, a lot of big men could average 25 PPG when they are playing with as good a passer as Nash.


Not to mention, Amare's defense = weak.

I totally agree. Pierce is better than a lot of the players that have been listed ahead of him in this thread. He's got a bit of an ego problem lol but he's a great player. He led his team and produced well before KG and Ray joined the Celtics. I know, I watched him dismantle my team enough times even when the Celtics were horrible.

NYMetros
08-05-2008, 01:32 PM
were in my post did i say anything at all about nash?

If i had to build a team id take Amare he's a monster and can only get better

playoffs dont determine how good a player is just look at Karl Malone and John Stockton... 0 championships does that rank them below pierce? i think not

Playoffs mean a lot about a player. That is when the clutch players step up. You know, Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Kareem Abdul Jabar. Playoffs don't mean everything about a player, but they do tell us a whole lot about them.

BTownTeamsRKing
08-05-2008, 01:33 PM
I agree with some of what you had to say, but I had to put Manu just ahead of PP.. Ginobili's no joke AND he's got those leader qualities you're looking for.

is manu gonna beat Kobe? lebron?

i thought ginobli was criticized last year for losing his energy too quickly so he came off the bench to inject scoring for the Spurs.

Ginobli is a very good player, but he can never be in the positions Pierce has been. as in, being the the only talent on the team for a long time and at least contending for a while.

ginoble has had TD his whole career.

imagine if Pierce had KG a couple years ago.

mitch91
08-05-2008, 01:33 PM
im not sure about amare but im having my first post disagreement about some dude who is saying that al jeferson is betrer than peirce but imo amare is better than al jef. thats just my thoughts....anyways back to pp

ink
08-05-2008, 01:34 PM
Here's my top 20, but unlike you babies I'll put it IN ORDER :)

Go ahead and critique... but if you're gonna bring it, bring the heat!

Note: this is not "starting a franchise," it's who would you want on your team for ONE season.

1. Kobe
2. Lebron
3. Chris Paul
4. Tim Duncan
5. Kevin Garnett
6. Dwyane Wade
7. Amare Stoudemire
8. Deron Williams
9. Dwight Howard
10. Carmelo Anthony
11. Chris Bosh
12. Dirk Nowitzki
13. Yao Ming
14. Gilbert Arenas
15. Carlos Boozer
16. Manu Ginobili
17. Paul Pierce
18. Elton Brand
19. Tracy Mcgrady
20. Joe Johnson

I'd take Pierce ahead of any of the bolded players, and that includes Bosh, who is a great player.

Chicagofaithful
08-05-2008, 01:34 PM
Pierce is not better than Manu, Yao, Davis, or AI... not even close... sorry bro...Hes so overrated. THink about this, he proclaims to be the best player in the world after winning the Title. However he had the worst record in the NBA when it was just him. It took Garnett and Allen to win.. No offense but without Garnett, Pierce is no better than an above average Small Forward

hockeypro68
08-05-2008, 01:35 PM
Assuming everyone has a healthy season, and in no order: Lebron, Kobe, Dwight, Chris Paul, Duncan, Nowitzki, Arenas, Tmac, Yao, Garnett, Nash, Baron Davis, Deron Williams, maybe Carlos Boozer, AI, Melo, Bosh. I mean this is all subjective, but i think most can agree that if pierce is in the top 15, its much closer to the bottom. I could agree without reservation that he's in the top 20.

NYMetros
08-05-2008, 01:37 PM
Pierce is not better than Manu, Yao, Davis, or AI... not even close... sorry bro...Hes so overrated. THink about this, he proclaims to be the best player in the world after winning the Title. However he had the worst record in the NBA when it was just him. It took Garnett and Allen to win.. No offense but without Garnett, Pierce is no better than an above average Small Forward

LOL. You realize Pierce missed half of that season with an injury, right?

bogdanrom
08-05-2008, 01:37 PM
once again you cant compare on last years points since pierce was playing team ball. Look at last 5 years ppg and tell me who is a better scorer

In one of your previous posts you said that Joe Johnson wasn't better because he played with scrubs. We'll the last 5 years, before the big trades, Pierce played with scrubs. The rules don't apply to all players, then, hmmm. The question asks if Pierce IS a top 15 players, not better career stats or last 5 years. Now. Present. IMO he isn't. More like top 20 or top 25. Also he has games where he shows that he is at least Top 10 talent, but then games where he is just lazy.

In no order. Kobe, Lebron, Paul, Deron, Nash,Wade, Carmelo, Baron Davis, Allen Iverson, Tim Duncan, Garnett, Dwight Howard, Amare, Bosh, Al Jefferson, Boozer. Also considerable Al Jefferson, Tracy, Yao, Dirk.

Also, I know kind of homer, but Arenas a 30 ppg and 6 apg deserves consideration. Butler 20 ppg, 7 rpg, 5 apg, and 2 spg. Also Antawn Jamison, he is old but still 21ppg and 10 rpg.

BTownTeamsRKing
08-05-2008, 01:38 PM
the only thing about Pierce that makes him so underated is he is not flashy.

he just gets the job done. u wont see him jump over frederick weis like VC or cross someone up like AI, but if u need constant clutch scoring down the stretch, u want the ball in the hands of 3 players.

1. Kobe
2. Wade
3. Pierce

CaleX(RR)MIA™
08-05-2008, 01:38 PM
Playoffs mean a lot about a player. That is when the clutch players step up. You know, Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Kareem Abdul Jabar. Playoffs don't mean everything about a player, but they do tell us a whole lot about them.

I know they mean something but i wouldent judge a player on them.

cabernetluver
08-05-2008, 01:38 PM
As a Laker fan, I respect Paul Pierce, but as one can see, hi is way not in the top 10, and it can be argued, and has been as seen above, that he is not a top 15. I would agree that he is a solid top 20

Hawkeye15
08-05-2008, 01:39 PM
He is a top 25 player, possibly top 20. Until this year, he was a terrible defender. He gave up a ton of points. In his physical prime 3 years ago, he was unstoppable one on one, but he needs KG and Allen now to do a lot of damage.
As far as Al Jefferson goes, how does a 21/11/1.5 23 year old get looked over? Everyone talks about Bynum, and his potential. I would take AJ every day of the week before I took Bynum.

NYMetros
08-05-2008, 01:41 PM
I know they mean something but i wouldent judge a player on them.

Not soley on them, no. But it definitely is one of many factors on which to judge a player on. Paul Pierce proved in the playoffs this past year that he is one of the clutchest players in the NBA.

Padres Son
08-05-2008, 01:41 PM
I'd put him in the top 15. He's #14 or 15 IMO.

I wouldn't put Davis, Yao, Jefferson, Parker, Manu, Johnson, Roy, Smith, Bibby and West ahead of him.

BTownTeamsRKing
08-05-2008, 01:43 PM
I know they mean something but i wouldent judge a player on them.

wat would D-wade be without the show he put on in the Finals?

i disagree completely. take it from a city that knows champions, if u dont come through in the CLUTCH; U R NOTHING.

the only thing ppl remember about seasons is CHAMPIONSHIPS. nothing else

i dont remember who won mvp 3 yrs ago or even 2 yrs ago.

pressure either makes or breaks players. Pierce stepped up like Dwade did in 06, and thats wat ppl will remember.

thats the only i think i remember from Dal vs. Mia: D-wade torching the mavs to a title in Miami.

CaleX(RR)MIA™
08-05-2008, 01:44 PM
Not soley on them, no. But it definitely is one of many factors on which to judge a player on. Paul Pierce proved in the playoffs this past year that he is one of the clutchest players in the NBA.

he's always done that i didn't need the playoffs to know that he's a clutch player lol

i was going fro the C's in the playoffs btw :D

CaleX(RR)MIA™
08-05-2008, 01:46 PM
wat would D-wade be without the show he put on in the Finals?

i disagree completely. take it from a city that knows champions, if u dont come through in the CLUTCH; U R NOTHING.

the only thing ppl remember about seasons is CHAMPIONSHIPS. nothing else

i dont remember who won mvp 3 yrs ago or even 2 yrs ago.

pressure either makes or breaks players. Pierce stepped up like Dwade did in 06, and thats wat ppl will remember.

thats the only i think i remember from Dal vs. Mia: D-wade torching the mavs to a title in Miami.

i guess, but there are to many factors that go in determining how good a player is

mitch91
08-05-2008, 01:49 PM
people that are beter than pp are...and in no particular order ( not because im scared just because im can b bothered putting them in order lol)

lbj
kobe
kg
td
cp3
nash
dirk
howard
d-will
....there 9 people tha i think we can all agree on that are better
now there is others such as t-mac yao bosh a.i melo boozer brand arenas that you could possibly put ahead or bhind pp.
t-mac=not past 1st round
yao=still has to develop a tougher side and injured alot and imo will be like that for his whole careers as a result of his size and no d
bosh=??
a.i=still gr8 but not as all round as pp
melo=needs 2 grow but in a year possibly or 2 he will b def better than peirce its just with his experience i would take pp ahead of melo
boozer=good but not great
brand=few years back i would say he was a top guy but after his injurie year he needs 2 prove himself once more
gilbert=i would personally take him before pp but alot of people dont seem 2 give him his props

mitch91
08-05-2008, 01:50 PM
4got wade my bad

King Koopa
08-05-2008, 01:54 PM
heres my list

Kobe
Wade
Melo
Yao
Paul
Amare
KG
D.Williams
Boozer
B.Davis
t-Mac
T.Duncan
King James
E.Brand
Steve nash
A.I
Dirk
Bosh
D.Howard
A.Jefferson

Thats 20 And dont you dare tell me hes better then ANY of these Players Paul Piece is top 25 not even top 20. If you dont Agree then you just dont know anything about basketball.

King Koopa
08-05-2008, 01:58 PM
heres my list

Kobe
Wade
Melo
Yao
Paul
Amare
KG
D.Williams
Boozer
B.Davis
t-Mac
T.Duncan
King James
E.Brand
Steve nash
A.I
Dirk
Bosh
D.Howard
A.Jefferson

Thats 20 And dont you dare tell me hes better then ANY of these Players Paul Piece is top 25 not even top 20.


And i also have roy over paul..... i put paul with these players.
R.Artest, C.Butler, L.Deng, A.Iguodala, R.Lewis, J.Howard,T.Parker.

And butler is better then Paul.

madiaz3
08-05-2008, 02:01 PM
I'd put him just around 15.

madiaz3
08-05-2008, 02:03 PM
I'd put him in the top 15. He's #14 or 15 IMO.

I wouldn't put Davis, Yao, Jefferson, Parker, Manu, Johnson, Roy, Smith, Bibby and West ahead of him.

You wouldn't put Yao ahead of him? Are you crazy?

Czar
08-05-2008, 02:12 PM
Good poll question, some decent answers. Fact of the matter is, it IS debatable, but I'd say he is a top 15 players. And another thing, statistically speaking, he is superior to both Ginobli and Parker. (Put Pierce next to 2 stars and see what happened. Oh, wait...)

YankeeFan89
08-05-2008, 02:15 PM
He def. is a top 15 player.

mamba24
08-05-2008, 02:16 PM
I won't vote since I'm a celtics fan. But for people saying no... Name 15 players better than he is.

kobe, king james, yao, duncan, manu, tony parker, cp3, deron williams, carmelo, kg, ai, tmac, d wade, dwight howard, nash, nowitzki, amare... any other questions

staywithdaflow
08-05-2008, 02:20 PM
here are the players better than mR. Injury faker... haha..
kobe, lebron, wade, duncan, parker, melo, howard, paul, williams, nash, amare, nowitski, bosh, carter, AI, west, pau, davis, hmm...

beside's pierce isn't better than mamba.. the whole celtic team was!...
if it wasn't for kg and allen he's team still wouldn't make it...

BTownTeamsRKing
08-05-2008, 02:22 PM
And i also have roy over paul..... i put paul with these players.
R.Artest, C.Butler, L.Deng, A.Iguodala, R.Lewis, J.Howard,T.Parker.

And butler is better then Paul.

wow im done with this.

caron bulter?!?!?! wowowowowowowowowowwww

madiaz3
08-05-2008, 02:22 PM
kobe, king james, yao, duncan, manu, tony parker, cp3, deron williams, carmelo, kg, ai, tmac, d wade, dwight howard, nash, nowitzki, amare... any other questions

These are the 15 I'm most sure of. TP and Ginobili is arguable.

Kobe
James
Wade
Carmelo
Nash
AI
CP3
Deron
KG
TD
TMac (This is the year for him to prove himself now that he has help similar to the C's)
Dwight
Brandon Roy
Amare
Yao

cubfan23
08-05-2008, 02:27 PM
i look for an all around player and before last year if i recall correctly Pierce didnt like to play defense. So i could care less at how many ppg he averaged.

MoBASS
08-05-2008, 02:28 PM
I'd take Pierce ahead of any of the bolded players, and that includes Bosh, who is a great player.

Wow, you'd put Pierce ahead of Amare (All-NBA First team), Bosh, AND Carmelo... sorry but I have to disagree there.

And then you say "would Manu beat Kobe, and lebron?"

Well, PIERCE did not beat Kobe and Lebron. Overplaying somebody in the hopes that they drive the lane in the teeth of the Boston zone is is hardly beating someone.

MiamiHeat
08-05-2008, 02:30 PM
i think hes at the bottom in the top 15 maybe 14 or 15 or even in the top 20 at number 16 but def. not top 10, so im voting yes

Padres Son
08-05-2008, 02:32 PM
You wouldn't put Yao ahead of him? Are you crazy?No and no.

Yao has good numbers (21/10), but he's not going to add more to a team than PP does. That's what this question is all about. Pierce is more valuable to his team and creates more problems for defenses.

If Yao AND T-Mac are better than PP (and I don't think they are), then why can't they get out of the first round? And don't tell me it's because the West is such a difficult conference because the East has won three of the last five finals.

ink
08-05-2008, 02:34 PM
Wow, you'd put Pierce ahead of Amare, Bosh, AND Carmelo... sorry but I have to disagree there.

And then you say "would Manu beat Kobe, and lebron?"

Well, PIERCE did not beat Kobe and Lebron. Overplaying somebody in the hopes that they drive the lane in the teeth of the Boston zone is is hardly beating someone.

The highlighted part is the only thing I said. I think you're quoting someone else with the other stuff below it.

Carmelo is not mature yet, Bosh has been bashed around playing out of position (even though I love the guy, he's not as good as Pierce), and Amare is all talent and lacks the savvy - so far - to be the MVP all of us want him to be. All three of them are fairly young, and all of them have a chance to take it to the next level. But Pierce has already done that. Whether he's a jerk or not, or whether he's overrating himself doesn't matter at all. People have to let that stuff go and look at what he's done. Like I said, I remember seeing him when he was playing for HORRIBLE Boston teams, and he could still dismantle the other team. Dangerous player ... and I bet his opponents don't underestimate him like some fans do. :D

King Koopa
08-05-2008, 02:36 PM
wow im done with this.

caron bulter?!?!?! wowowowowowowowowowwww

2007-08 Statistics Butlers Stats
PPG 20.3
RPG 6.7
APG 4.9
SPG 2.2
BPG 0.3
FG% 0.466
FT% 0.901
3P% 0.357
MPG 39.9

Piece stats

2007-08 Statistics
PPG 19.6
RPG 5.1
APG 4.5
SPG 1.3
BPG 0.4
FG% 0.464
FT% 0.843
3P% 0.392
MPG 35.9

Hes better then Paul in every stat besides 3pt shooting ..... Hes not even top 25 in my list, i want to see him do something with out KG or Allen.

pippsux
08-05-2008, 02:40 PM
I am a rockets fan...

Absolutley he is top15. People make it sound like winning a championship and finals MVP is easy. Before the championship, I would say top 20, after this year definatley top 10, forget top 15.

gregd111
08-05-2008, 02:41 PM
Top 25.

It's hard to say he is even the best player on his own team.

NYMetros
08-05-2008, 02:44 PM
2007-08 Statistics Butlers Stats
PPG 20.3
RPG 6.7
APG 4.9
SPG 2.2
BPG 0.3
FG% 0.466
FT% 0.901
3P% 0.357
MPG 39.9

Piece stats

2007-08 Statistics
PPG 19.6
RPG 5.1
APG 4.5
SPG 1.3
BPG 0.4
FG% 0.464
FT% 0.843
3P% 0.392
MPG 35.9

Hes better then Paul in every stat besides 3pt shooting ..... Hes not even top 25 in my list, i want to see him do something with out KG or Allen.

Come on.

Caron Butler was the main option on his team. Pierce was playing with Garnett and Ray Allen. Look at Pierce's numbers in the past. They're better than Butler's. Also, has Butler ever led his team to the Finals?

Am I the only one who thinks the playoffs are important?

balla4life22
08-05-2008, 02:44 PM
since its your first post I wont rip you too hard...but dont question my b-ball knowledge. The NBA is a league about what you can do NOW, not what you did in the past. Right now I would much rather have Jefferson, Manu, or Parker on my team then Pierce...by a lot...

dude are u kidding me look at what he did in the playoffs even more in the finals

balla4life22
08-05-2008, 02:46 PM
people forget that he got to the ECF with antoine walker as the second option! twice!

ink
08-05-2008, 02:46 PM
:eyebrow:

Come on.

Caron Butler was the main option on his team. Pierce was playing with Garnett and Ray Allen. Look at Pierce's numbers in the past. They're better than Butler's. Also, has Butler ever led his team to the Finals?

Am I the only one who thinks the playoffs are important?

I'm with you there. I can't believe that people actually put TMac - for example - ahead of PP. :shrug: The playoffs are a whole new level of competition. There are no more pushover teams to run up your stats against like there are in the regular season!

balla4life22
08-05-2008, 02:50 PM
yeah i agree with ink. Very few players have performed as good as pierce has in the playoffs, not just this year but years past. Half of the players that ppl are mentioning before him cant even get past the first round.

NYMetros
08-05-2008, 02:50 PM
people forget that he got to the ECF with antoine walker as the second option! twice!

Wow, that completely slipped my mind. That makes only a stronger case for Pierce being a top 15 player. The man flat out gets it done in the playoffs.


I'm with you there. I can't believe that people actually put TMac - for example - ahead of PP. :shrug: The playoffs are a whole new level of competition. There are no more pushover teams to run up your stats against like there are in the regular season!

I agree 100%. McGrady hasn't proven anything in my eyes. Great players need to put their team on their shoulders and will them to victories when the odds are stacked against them (Paul Pierce did this in the NBA Finals when the Celtics were down 18 at the half). McGrady has not exemplified that quality thus far.

Padres Son
08-05-2008, 02:53 PM
I'm with you there. I can't believe that people actually put TMac - for example - ahead of PP. :shrug: The playoffs are a whole new level of competition. There are no more pushover teams to run up your stats against like there are in the regular season!:clap: Completely agree.

People are being biased simply because they don't like Pierce as a person. Caron Butler? Brandon Roy?? Al Jefferson?? Get serious. We're talking about the reigning finals MVP.

bagwell368
08-05-2008, 02:53 PM
He is, but not at the top.

Acording to Win Shares he is #70 all time. Of current guys that are better currently and career wise I count 5 for sure. Of guys that are up and coming but better now I count 8. Makes him #14 at best, and since I probably forgot two guys, let's call him #16.

Note to Celts/fans of big 3:

BTW his teammate KG is far better earlier and now, and will retire well ahead of Pierce. Allen is no longer elite and Pierce will top him in the end, although obviously two different players.

Who cares? The banner is hanging in the Gahden.

King Koopa
08-05-2008, 02:55 PM
I'm with you there. I can't believe that people actually put TMac - for example - ahead of PP. :shrug: The playoffs are a whole new level of competition. There are no more pushover teams to run up your stats against like there are in the regular season!

Bro T-Mac would school, Paul anyday..... Come on, who wouldnt have the finals that, Paul had when there puting 2 men on KG..... LEAVING paul in a one on one with Radmanovic, i bet that if anyone even Walker was getting played by Radmanovic they would have a Good series.

King Koopa
08-05-2008, 02:56 PM
wow hard to believe no one here know much about the game of Basketball.

NYMetros
08-05-2008, 02:57 PM
Bro T-Mac would school, Paul anyday..... Come on, who wouldnt have the finals that, Paul had when there puting 2 men on KG..... LEAVING paul in a one on one with Radmanovic, i bet that if anyone even Walker was getting played by Radmanovic they would have a Good series.

Someone else pointed this out already: Pierce made the ECF twice before having KG and Ray Allen. That just proves that Pierce is a winner, just extremely underrated.

balla4life22
08-05-2008, 02:59 PM
Bro T-Mac would school, Paul anyday..... Come on, who wouldnt have the finals that, Paul had when there puting 2 men on KG..... LEAVING paul in a one on one with Radmanovic, i bet that if anyone even Walker was getting played by Radmanovic they would have a Good series.

this isnt a one on one game bud. Piercer didnt just do this in the finals hes done this every series every year hes gotten to the playoffs. What has Tmac done? He has arguably the best center in the league on his team they double team him all the time. What about in the cavs series when lebron was guarding him? and pistons when tayshaun prince was guarding him? and hawks when josh smith and johnson were guarding him?

Jay22Redd
08-05-2008, 02:59 PM
Even though I dont like him, he's a top 1 player. BUT the only reason he is a top 15 player is because he has Garnett and Allen on his team to take attention off him. 06-07 he wuz not a top 15 nor top 20 player in the league.

balla4life22
08-05-2008, 03:00 PM
wow hard to believe no one here know much about the game of Basketball.

koopa ur the one saying tmac would school pierce when everyone knows basketball isnt a one on one game. Ur the one that doesnt know anything

balla4life22
08-05-2008, 03:02 PM
Even though I dont like him, he's a top 1 player. BUT the only reason he is a top 15 player is because he has Garnett and Allen on his team to take attention off him. 06-07 he wuz not a top 15 nor top 20 player in the league.

you can say that for allen and garnett too. Garnett has an easier job cuz they focus on allen and pierce and allen has an easier job cuz they focus on pierce and garnett. What about when he got to the ECF without them a couple years back

18colts29
08-05-2008, 03:04 PM
Pierce is better then Manu, Yao, al jefferson, joe johnson, david west, allen iverson, and baron davis... WHHHHATTTT!?!?

I would take Yao over everyone in the league except for about 5 or 6 people.

GSW fan
08-05-2008, 03:17 PM
i am a warriors fan of course and here is my top 15:

1. kobe (even though i dont like him)
2. lebron
3. cp3
4. dwight
5. kg
6. dwilliams
7. wade
8. tmac
9. baron
10. parker
11. duncan
12. PIERCE
13. manu
14. chauncey
15. mello

Storch
08-05-2008, 03:19 PM
Yes, top 15.

Marius
08-05-2008, 03:20 PM
Pierce is better then Manu, Yao, al jefferson, joe johnson, david west, allen iverson, and baron davis... WHHHHATTTT!?!?

Pierce is better than Manu and David West, but not the rest.

*Superman*
08-05-2008, 03:20 PM
You might be able to squeeze him in their, but that is only because of what he did, otherwise his career isn't that great.

King Koopa
08-05-2008, 03:25 PM
koopa ur the one saying tmac would school pierce when everyone knows basketball isnt a one on one game. Ur the one that doesnt know anything

wow first of all i didnt say.... he would school him in a one on one. (which he would.) But, who wouldnt be a good player when you have KG and Allen in your team, not to mention Rondo which is a Great Passing PG.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
08-05-2008, 03:27 PM
Deron is clearly better. Al Jefferson is better IMo. and west and johnson are debatable...


yea DWill might be better than peirce... i just like to argue cuz I like DWill but i think he's overrated.

Baller1
08-05-2008, 03:27 PM
Pierce is better then Manu, Yao, al jefferson, joe johnson, david west, allen iverson, and baron davis... WHHHHATTTT!?!?

Yes.

Pierce is top 15 easily IMO.

GSW fan
08-05-2008, 03:27 PM
David West is a product of Chirs Paul
Compare Manu's stats and you see pierce is better is ppg, ast, and rpg...easy choice
AI is not an all around better player
joe johnson's stats are inflated since he has been the only one on the hawks that is good
baron davis has less ppg and not as good of defense
yao is always hurt
al jefferson will be better eventually but not at this point, plus you cant really compare big men to guards

first of all baron is a great defender. he was top 5 in steals the 4 years i think and he locks down all the gaurds hes defending. secondly you can compare big men and gaurds. ex. you can say that diwght is better than boykins.

Marius
08-05-2008, 03:27 PM
1. Kobe Bryant
2. Lebron James
3. Dwight Howard
4. Dwayne Wade
5. Chris Paul
6. Tim Duncan
7. Kevin Garnett
8. Tracy McGrady
9. Baron Davis
10. Chris Bosh
11. Carmello Anthony
12. Carlos Boozer
13. Joe Johnson
14. Deron Williams
15. Steve Nash
16. Jason Kidd
17. STAT
18. Paul Pierce
19. Hedo
20. Durant

That's the top 20 in the NBA

balla4life22
08-05-2008, 03:28 PM
wow first of all i didnt say.... he would school him in a one on one. (which he would.) But, who wouldnt be a good player when you have KG and Allen in your team, not to mention Rondo which is a Great Passing PG.

koopa are u paying attention. He got to the ECF twice with antoine walker as their second best player, WITHOUT allen and KG. And Tmac would obv take him one on one no s**t genius

balla4life22
08-05-2008, 03:28 PM
How is Joe johnson better than pierce i dont get it

Marius
08-05-2008, 03:29 PM
first of all baron is a great defender. he was top 5 in steals the 4 years i think and he locks down all the gaurds hes defending. secondly you can compare big men and gaurds. ex. you can say that diwght is better than boykins.

Steals don't make you a good defender.
See: AI

balla4life22
08-05-2008, 03:31 PM
1. Kobe Bryant
2. Lebron James
3. Dwight Howard
4. Dwayne Wade
5. Chris Paul
6. Tim Duncan
7. Kevin Garnett
8. Tracy McGrady cant get outta the first round
9. Baron Davis
10. Chris Bosh hes gonna be great but he hasnt done anything yet
11. Carmello Anthony cant play defense for his life
12. Carlos Boozer what? imagine boozer on a team by himself withotu ak 47 and deron williams
13. Joe Johnson what has he done?
14. Deron Williams
15. Steve Nash
16. Jason Kidd He's getting old and couldnt do anything with carter and jefferson on the team.
17. STAT
18. Paul Pierce
19. Hedo
20. Durant

That's the top 20 in the NBA

he's easily ahead of a lot of these guys

Marius
08-05-2008, 03:32 PM
How is Joe johnson better than pierce i dont get it

Watch the series Boston vs. Atlanta.

I can't believe how blinded everyone !

KG or Ray Allen should have been finals MVPs. Without their performances Pierce is no one.

PSquared34MVP
08-05-2008, 03:33 PM
Here's my top 20, but unlike you babies I'll put it IN ORDER :)

Go ahead and critique... but if you're gonna bring it, bring the heat!

Note: this is not "starting a franchise," it's who would you want on your team for ONE season.

1. Kobe
2. Lebron
3. Chris Paul
4. Tim Duncan
5. Kevin Garnett
6. Dwyane Wade
7. Amare Stoudemire
8. Deron Williams
9. Dwight Howard
10. Carmelo Anthony
11. Chris Bosh
12. Dirk Nowitzki
13. Yao Ming
14. Gilbert Arenas
15. Carlos Boozer
16. Manu Ginobili
17. Paul Pierce(17th???)
18. Elton Brand
19. Tracy Mcgrady
20. Joe Johnson

I didn't vote because I'm a Celtics fan and a HUGE Pierce fan but I'll just make my point...

Underlined = Debatable
Bold = DEFINITE No!

1. Kobe- Pierce outplayed Kobe in the finals and won Finals MVP
2. Lebron- 2 seasons ago, Pierce scored 50 on Lebron in a Boston loss and even Lebron admitted that Pierce is the top forward in the league. Also, Pierce outplayed Lebron in the playoffs.
3. Chris Paul- I'm a Chris Paul fan, but I don't think he's better than Pierce yet.
4. Tim Duncan- I totally agree, Duncan has led his team deep into the playoffs every year since he got drafted.
5. Kevin Garnett- No way! Where was the great Kevin Garnett when Ray's shot was off and Pierce was meeting double teams every time he touched the ball? Where was he when we needed him most in the finals? Pierce was the man that the Celtics could depend on each and every night.
6. Dwyane Wade- Didn't the heat have the worst record in the league last year? Calm down heat fans, I know D-Wade was injured but you can look at their record in the games that Wade did play and it's still deeply sub .500 so tell me how he is better than Pierce and how he is ranked 6TH on this list right now. Please.
7. Amare Stoudemire Amare has one of the best point guards in the league on his team and he also has Shaq to take some of the defensive preasure off him...he better be scoring above 20 and grabbing 10 rebounds a game. He also better be getting past the 1st round of the playoffs...definitely not better than Pierce. He WAS better than Pierce that year before he got injured but that was when Pierce was top 5 in the league.
8. Deron Williams- WHAT!!!??? HOW can you compare Deron Williams to Paul Pierce? If people are going to say that Pierce only won because of the two all stars on his team then why isn't Deron Williams winning in the post season. He had a tough time against the EIGHTH seeded Warriors last year. Deron has Carlos Boozer who is an all star and AK-47 who is a borderline all star in the west each year but if AK played in the east, he'd definitely be an all star. So with those two players, shouldn't Deron be polishing his Finals MVP trophy right now?
9. Dwight Howard- Hm, this is a tough one. I'm not really a big fan of Dwight right now but I think he still needs time to develop. I definitely don't think he's better than Pierce right now. He has no outside game, no versatility. He's like a Shaq, but Shaq actually led his teams to victory.
10. Carmelo Anthony- Pierce outplays Carmelo in almost every game they play against each other...check the box scores.
11. Chris Bosh- NO WAY! Go compare the numbers. With the best 3pt percentage in the league last season and Bosh, "the unstoppable inside presence," Toronto should win every game.
12. Dirk Nowitzki- Pierce and Dirk were drafted in the same year so their career stats are actually comparable but all I'm going to say is that Dallas has been an elite team for the past 3-4 seasons and Dirk still can't lead them to that championship but instead chokes in the first round of the playoffs and gets knocked out by the eighth seed.
13. Yao Ming- Way too injury prone and undependable in games for me to want him on my team more than Pierce. Also, he has never been past the first round of the playoffs while he has T-Mac and one of the best perimeter defenders on his team. No way is he better than Pierce. I'm a Rockets fan too and with the addition of Ron Artest I think they're going to be a tough opponent this season.
14. Gilbert Arenas- Oooh, another tough one but if Washington also has a "big 3" that's "better than Boston's big 3" why didn't they make it past the 1st round?
15. Carlos Boozer- Same argument as Deron Williams.
16. Manu Ginobili- Ok, now this one kind of pissed me off. Can you honestly say that Manu is better than Pierce. I mean I'm a big Manu fan but I would never say he's better than Pierce. If you took Duncan and Parker off the Spurs team, Manu would be nothing. While Pierce was still averaging over 20 points a game without Garnett and Allen.
17. Paul Pierce(17th???)- Wow. he's even more underrated than I thought.
18. Elton Brand
19. Tracy Mcgrady
20. Joe Johnson[/QUOTE]

balla4life22
08-05-2008, 03:34 PM
people think this was pierces only good year but hes gotten to the playoffs and ECF multiple times before this year

GSW fan
08-05-2008, 03:35 PM
Steals don't make you a good defender.
See: AI

Thats true but he does other stuff on defense like stoppin pick'n'roll, contesting shots, and its almost impossible to drive on him. he is better on offense and defnse than pierce

balla4life22
08-05-2008, 03:35 PM
Watch the series Boston vs. Atlanta.

I can't believe how blinded everyone !

KG or Ray Allen should have been finals MVPs. Without their performances Pierce is no one.

yeah and kg and allen are no1 without pierce. And you obv didnt watch the finals cuz pierce absolutely took over. Joe johnson and ray allen guarded each other not pierce

Marius
08-05-2008, 03:37 PM
h
1. Kobe Bryant
2. Lebron James
3. Dwight Howard
4. Dwayne Wade
5. Chris Paul
6. Tim Duncan
7. Kevin Garnett
8. Tracy McGrady cant get outta the first round
9. Baron Davis
10. Chris Bosh hes gonna be great but he hasnt done anything yet [ He is great, he's a real franchise player, he's not in the ranks of the top 7... but he is a 20/10 player, stepped up his game in the playoffs when he had no HELP at all... and he will probably overtake the starting spot over Dwight does the same thing in half the minutes) -> Dwight is more dominant though, which is why he's up there.
11. Carmello Anthony cant play defense for his life -> He has an amazing offensive aresenal, can play SF/PF is not a horrible defender, is on the same level as Pierce. Pierce got lucky when Kobe got in a slump.
12. Carlos Boozer what? imagine boozer on a team by himself -> He had a bad playoff series, but he does everything you ask him for. He's easily a 20 and 10 guy.
13. Joe Johnson -> See First Round, he almost humilated the Cs single handedly
14. Deron Williams
15. Steve Nash
16. Jason Kidd -> Wince? and Richard "I suck" Jefferson? Before them he got to the finals. Check your book kid.
17. STAT
18. Paul Pierce
19. Hedo
20. Durant

That's the top 20 in the NBA
he's easily ahead of a lot of these guys

Anything else?

balla4life22
08-05-2008, 03:37 PM
i dont think pierce is top 10 but hes easily top 15

balla4life22
08-05-2008, 03:38 PM
Anything else?

is that all u have to say?

Marius
08-05-2008, 03:38 PM
yeah and kg and allen are no1 without pierce. And you obv didnt watch the finals cuz pierce absolutely took over. Joe johnson and ray allen guarded each other not pierce

If anything legit wing was single covered, they would go off too.

Were his three pointers double teamed?

Rofl.

I watched the finals buddy. Every single game.

Did you see Ray Allens performance?

KGs game changing and one play... where he hung in the air got fouled and hit the bucket?

I like the Cs, but PIerce is very arrogant in thinking he is #1 he's #20 in the NBA.

He's not even a franchise player.

GSW fan
08-05-2008, 03:38 PM
Watch the series Boston vs. Atlanta.

I can't believe how blinded everyone !

KG or Ray Allen should have been finals MVPs. Without their performances Pierce is no one.

KEYWORD: FINALS. not first round

Marius
08-05-2008, 03:39 PM
is that all u have to say?

If you read what I wrote, in response then yes it is.

Marius
08-05-2008, 03:39 PM
KEYWORD: FINALS. not first round

Pierce was single covered, he's a good talent, I'm not taking that away from him... but he's being overhyped.

balla4life22
08-05-2008, 03:41 PM
If anything legit wing was single covered, they would go off too.

Were his three pointers double teamed?

Rofl.

I watched the finals buddy. Every single game.

Did you see Ray Allens performance?

KGs game changing and one play... where he hung in the air got fouled and hit the bucket?

I like the Cs, but PIerce is very arrogant in thinking he is #1 he's #20 in the NBA.

He's not even a franchise player.

Ray had two good performances but was quiest pretty much all playoffs. KG had one huge bucket thats all u have for me. What about when pierce and lebron went head to head game 7. What about when pierce led the team through that historic comeback. He took over the finals bud wake up and accept it

GSW fan
08-05-2008, 03:41 PM
This is the real top 15
1. kobe
2. lebron
3. cp3
4. dwight
5. kg
6. dwilliams
7. wade
8. tmac
9. baron
10. parker
11. duncan
12. PIERCE
13. manu
14. chauncey
15. mello

Marius
08-05-2008, 03:42 PM
Davis is better, but Parker is not? If Parker was on a team without Duncan/Ginobilli you would change your mind incredibly fast.

Parker is amazing man, he put up a good fight with CP3, that matchup made me respect him a lot more.

balla4life22
08-05-2008, 03:42 PM
Pierce was single covered, he's a good talent, I'm not taking that away from him... but he's being overhyped.

Joe Johnson was single covered too

yaowowrocket11
08-05-2008, 03:42 PM
I think Pierce is a top 15 player. Probably in the 10-15 range.

Marius
08-05-2008, 03:43 PM
This is the real top 15
1. kobe
2. lebron
3. cp3
4. dwight
5. kg
6. dwilliams
7. wade
8. tmac
9. baron
10. parker
11. duncan
12. PIERCE
13. manu
14. chauncey
15. mello

Your crediblility is gone right when youput Tmac, Baron, before Duncan.

balla4life22
08-05-2008, 03:44 PM
Your crediblility is gone right when youput Tmac, Baron, before Duncan.
look whos talking you put guys like JJ ahead of pierce. Wtf has joe johnson done?

GSW fan
08-05-2008, 03:46 PM
Your crediblility is gone right when youput Tmac, Baron, before Duncan.

you can say tmac is better than baron and duncan
you can say duncan is better than tmac and baron
and you can also say baron is better than tmac and duncan

Marius
08-05-2008, 03:46 PM
Ray had two good performances but was quiest pretty much all playoffs. KG had one huge bucket thats all u have for me. What about when pierce and lebron went head to head game 7. What about when pierce led the team through that historic comeback. He took over the finals bud wake up and accept it

Are you really calling this years playoffs anything close to historic?

That's great that Pierce went off against Lebron James, but he isn't a great defender, Lebron is younger aswell... and isn't even in his prime, and still puts up great numbers.
The Celtics team is far more stacked than any team in this years playoffs and they were taken to 7 games in almost every series.

Allen and KG took a lot of pressure off him.

HesusdGOD
08-05-2008, 03:46 PM
after reading most of these post in here...its ****in sad to see that u people dont know not a damn thing about basketball

men lie, woman lie...STATS dont

PP not top 15...u must b out yall rabbit mind...u guys are nothing but a bunch of bandwagon,part time basketball watchers...

manu ahead of PP...in what way or form..dude has no D...what does he do better then PP..dude avgs..over 22 pts and grabs 6 rebounds a game...

parker ahead of PP..wow

granted CP3 had an excellent season last year...but he doesnt have the longevity to compare with PP..thats where the bandwagon comment comes in

but i dont even know y im commenting cus u fools dont know nothing...PP is the face of his team not only that..the new Face of the CELTIICS..his Jersey will b up there hanging with the greats

after LBJ hes the top SF in the league...when teams scout on the celtics...their main focus is to stop PP...y..because he's that all around player...that is..by far..MR.Fourth QUARTER

Marius
08-05-2008, 03:47 PM
look whos talking you put guys like JJ ahead of pierce. Wtf has joe johnson done?

He's hit so many clutch shots... he took a team that just barely made the playoffs and put up a fight against the stacked Cs.

That's what he did.

balla4life22
08-05-2008, 03:49 PM
Are you really calling this years playoffs anything close to historic?

That's great that Pierce went off against Lebron James, but he isn't a great defender, Lebron is younger aswell... and isn't even in his prime, and still puts up great numbers.
The Celtics team is far more stacked than any team in this years playoffs and they were taken to 7 games in almost every series.

Allen and KG took a lot of pressure off him.

Im calling the comeback historic u idiot. You know, one of the best comebacks in finals history? just admit that u didnt watch any of the finals bc its clear to me

GSW fan
08-05-2008, 03:49 PM
after reading most of these post in here...its ****in sad to see that u people dont know not a damn thing about basketball

men lie, woman lie...STATS dont



stats dont mean ANYTHING stats are only for fantasy leages

balla4life22
08-05-2008, 03:50 PM
He's hit so many clutch shots... he took a team that just barely made the playoffs and put up a fight against the stacked Cs.

That's what he did.
yeah well pierce is a champion and has actually gotten past the first round multiple times. let me know when JJ gets that done arright kid

Marius
08-05-2008, 03:50 PM
Im calling the comeback historic u idiot. You know, one of the best comebacks in finals history? just admit that u didnt watch any of the finals bc its clear to me

I watched EVERYGAME.

I'm not taking anything away from the Celtics performance.

I'm telling you that Pierce is getting overrated.

Marius
08-05-2008, 03:51 PM
yeah well pierce is a champion and has actually gotten past the first round multiple times. let me know when JJ gets that done arright kid

You're right... A PIerce lead team... last year was in the... umm... lotterry? right? yeah.

Put KG and Allen on his team... it's over.

Thatruth32
08-05-2008, 03:52 PM
im a warrior fan and i say yes.... top 15 for sure... best gimme a F break

GSW fan
08-05-2008, 03:53 PM
You're right... A PIerce lead team... last year was in the... umm... lotterry? right? yeah.

Put KG and Allen on his team... it's over.

he was injured that year

pwest6
08-05-2008, 03:53 PM
Pierce is ahead of Ginobli, AI, West, Yao, Jefferson, Johnson, Davis....top 15 sounds about right

Pierce is not ahead of Joe Johnson, the most underrated player in the L

balla4life22
08-05-2008, 03:53 PM
You're right... A PIerce lead team... last year was in the... umm... lotterry? right? yeah.

Put KG and Allen on his team... it's over.

yeah what about when he made the ECF with anotoine walker as the second option. And pierce was injured most of last season thats why they lost so many games helloooooo

Marius
08-05-2008, 03:55 PM
he was injured that year

What about the year before that?

pwest6
08-05-2008, 03:55 PM
Pierce is top 15 for sure though

Marius
08-05-2008, 03:56 PM
yeah what about when he made the ECF with anotoine walker as the second option. And pierce was injured most of last season thats why they lost so many games helloooooo

Antoine Walker isn't a bad player. He actually made the allstar team.

He's one of the reasons the heat won a championship.

Anything else?

HesusdGOD
08-05-2008, 03:56 PM
yeah well pierce is a champion and has actually gotten past the first round multiple times. let me know when JJ gets that done arright kid

PRICELESS!!!.....Good point

by the way...u can add plenty of players to that list also..T-mac maybe:confused:

Marius
08-05-2008, 03:57 PM
Pierce is not ahead of Joe Johnson, the most underrated player in the L

Thank you!

bogdanrom
08-05-2008, 03:57 PM
after reading most of these post in here...its ****in sad to see that u people dont know not a damn thing about basketball

men lie, woman lie...STATS dont

PP not top 15...u must b out yall rabbit mind...u guys are nothing but a bunch of bandwagon,part time basketball watchers...

manu ahead of PP...in what way or form..dude has no D...what does he do better then PP..dude avgs..over 22 pts and grabs 6 rebounds a game...

parker ahead of PP..wow

granted CP3 had an excellent season last year...but he doesnt have the longevity to compare with PP..thats where the bandwagon comment comes in
but i dont even know y im commenting cus u fools dont know nothing...PP is the face of his team not only that..the new Face of the CELTIICS..his Jersey will b up there hanging with the greats

after LBJ hes the top SF in the league...when teams scout on the celtics...their main focus is to stop PP...y..because he's that all around player...that is..by far..MR.Fourth QUARTER

You're calling others fools, when you say Paul Pierce is better than CP3. Listen if you want to talk just stats then Butler, put up numbers. But again, stop insulting everyone else when you say PP is better than CP3.

GSW fan
08-05-2008, 03:57 PM
What about the year before that?

i dont remembr. but i still think hes in the top 15. tell me who could go ahead of him

balla4life22
08-05-2008, 03:58 PM
What about the year before that?

he had guys like jiri welsch and ricky davis. haha are u kidding how could anyone do with that?

balla4life22
08-05-2008, 03:58 PM
You're calling others fools, when you say Paul Pierce is better than CP3. Listen if you want to talk just stats then Butler, put up numbers. But again, stop insulting everyone else when you say PP is better than CP3. Only a moron would do that.

yeah CP3 is top 5. Pierce is top 10-15

Marius
08-05-2008, 04:01 PM
he had guys like jiri welsch and ricky davis. haha are u kidding how could anyone do with that?

I'm just saying that a Pierce lead team does not go anywhere.

He only became someone when KG and Allen came :)

balla4life22
08-05-2008, 04:02 PM
I'm just saying that a Pierce lead team does not go anywhere.

He only became someone when KG and Allen came :)

dude he got the the ECF twice with anotoine walker as the second best player on the team , without kg and allen what do u have to say to that? You have nothing to say to that cuz ive mentioned it a hundred times and u have nothing to say

GSW fan
08-05-2008, 04:04 PM
I'm just saying that a Pierce lead team does not go anywhere.

He only became someone when KG and Allen came :)

he was always talked about before they came. he was compared to kobe all the time

balla4life22
08-05-2008, 04:05 PM
he was always talked about before they came. he was compared to kobe all the time

thank u GSW fan. marius dont know squat

ink
08-05-2008, 04:06 PM
This is a good thread guys. But please make your arguments without insults. We want this to be a forum, not a chat room where people diss each other. All insulting does is devalue your point anyway. This is a good debate because there are a lot of factors in play. So, please present your reasons and don't insult other posters when you're doing it. Thank you.

Marius
08-05-2008, 04:07 PM
he was always talked about before they came. he was compared to kobe all the time

Who compared Pierce to Kobe?

Their games are so different it's not even funny.

Kobe is double - tripled teamed...

balla4life22
08-05-2008, 04:07 PM
This is a good thread guys. Please make your arguments without insults. All it does is devalue your point anyway. This is a good debate because there are a lot of factors in play. So, please present your reasons and don't insult other posters when you're doing it. Thank you.

my bad...

balla4life22
08-05-2008, 04:08 PM
Who compared Pierce to Kobe?

Their games are so different it's not even funny.

Kobe is double - tripled teamed...

marius pierce has been double teamed his whole career. and do u have anything to say about going to the ecf with walker

ink
08-05-2008, 04:08 PM
my bad...

Not just you. But thanks. :clap:

GSW fan
08-05-2008, 04:09 PM
Who compared Pierce to Kobe?

Their games are so different it's not even funny.

Kobe is double - tripled teamed...

they both are outside scorers and pierce got double teamed even when kg and allen came

atl_braves_fan
08-05-2008, 04:12 PM
I didn't vote because I'm a Celtics fan and a HUGE Pierce fan but I'll just make my point...

Underlined = Debatable
Bold = DEFINITE No!

1. Kobe- Pierce outplayed Kobe in the finals and won Finals MVP
2. Lebron- 2 seasons ago, Pierce scored 50 on Lebron in a Boston loss and even Lebron admitted that Pierce is the top forward in the league. Also, Pierce outplayed Lebron in the playoffs.
3. Chris Paul- I'm a Chris Paul fan, but I don't think he's better than Pierce yet.
4. Tim Duncan- I totally agree, Duncan has led his team deep into the playoffs every year since he got drafted.
5. Kevin Garnett- No way! Where was the great Kevin Garnett when Ray's shot was off and Pierce was meeting double teams every time he touched the ball? Where was he when we needed him most in the finals? Pierce was the man that the Celtics could depend on each and every night.
6. Dwyane Wade- Didn't the heat have the worst record in the league last year? Calm down heat fans, I know D-Wade was injured but you can look at their record in the games that Wade did play and it's still deeply sub .500 so tell me how he is better than Pierce and how he is ranked 6TH on this list right now. Please.
7. Amare Stoudemire Amare has one of the best point guards in the league on his team and he also has Shaq to take some of the defensive preasure off him...he better be scoring above 20 and grabbing 10 rebounds a game. He also better be getting past the 1st round of the playoffs...definitely not better than Pierce. He WAS better than Pierce that year before he got injured but that was when Pierce was top 5 in the league.
8. Deron Williams- WHAT!!!??? HOW can you compare Deron Williams to Paul Pierce? If people are going to say that Pierce only won because of the two all stars on his team then why isn't Deron Williams winning in the post season. He had a tough time against the EIGHTH seeded Warriors last year. Deron has Carlos Boozer who is an all star and AK-47 who is a borderline all star in the west each year but if AK played in the east, he'd definitely be an all star. So with those two players, shouldn't Deron be polishing his Finals MVP trophy right now?
9. Dwight Howard- Hm, this is a tough one. I'm not really a big fan of Dwight right now but I think he still needs time to develop. I definitely don't think he's better than Pierce right now. He has no outside game, no versatility. He's like a Shaq, but Shaq actually led his teams to victory.
10. Carmelo Anthony- Pierce outplays Carmelo in almost every game they play against each other...check the box scores.
11. Chris Bosh- NO WAY! Go compare the numbers. With the best 3pt percentage in the league last season and Bosh, "the unstoppable inside presence," Toronto should win every game.
12. Dirk Nowitzki- Pierce and Dirk were drafted in the same year so their career stats are actually comparable but all I'm going to say is that Dallas has been an elite team for the past 3-4 seasons and Dirk still can't lead them to that championship but instead chokes in the first round of the playoffs and gets knocked out by the eighth seed.
13. Yao Ming- Way too injury prone and undependable in games for me to want him on my team more than Pierce. Also, he has never been past the first round of the playoffs while he has T-Mac and one of the best perimeter defenders on his team. No way is he better than Pierce. I'm a Rockets fan too and with the addition of Ron Artest I think they're going to be a tough opponent this season.
14. Gilbert Arenas- Oooh, another tough one but if Washington also has a "big 3" that's "better than Boston's big 3" why didn't they make it past the 1st round?
15. Carlos Boozer- Same argument as Deron Williams.
16. Manu Ginobili- Ok, now this one kind of pissed me off. Can you honestly say that Manu is better than Pierce. I mean I'm a big Manu fan but I would never say he's better than Pierce. If you took Duncan and Parker off the Spurs team, Manu would be nothing. While Pierce was still averaging over 20 points a game without Garnett and Allen.
17. Paul Pierce(17th???)- Wow. he's even more underrated than I thought.
18. Elton Brand
19. Tracy Mcgrady
20. Joe Johnson[/QUOTE]

Are you really saying that it is debatable that Paul Pierce is the second best player in the NBA?? You really are a homer.

For the record, I am a Rockets fan and I say that he is not in the top 15, but it is close. I would put him on par with McGrady (only because of McGrady's health issues), but there is no way that you would trade Yao for Pierce straight-up.

Dirty Dirk41
08-05-2008, 04:13 PM
This is a good thread guys. But please make your arguments without insults. We want this to be a forum, not a chat room where people diss each other. All insulting does is devalue your point anyway. This is a good debate because there are a lot of factors in play. So, please present your reasons and don't insult other posters when you're doing it. Thank you.


i disagree....all the insults ADD to the forums....nothing is devalued.. this is entertaining to read.

balla4life22
08-05-2008, 04:13 PM
yeah i think ppl are overrating him but i still think hes easily top 15

NYMetros
08-05-2008, 04:16 PM
i disagree....all the insults ADD to the forums....nothing is devalued.. this is entertaining to read.

We're here to get our points across and make the best arguments we can, not to diss each other.

As for the topic at hand, I think it's important that we all recognize Pierce's ability to perform in the playoffs. Most people really seem to be undervaluing that fact. But that is what elevates Pierce into the top 15 IMO. A lot of the other players that you guys are saying are better than Pierce haven't been nearly as successful as Pierce has.

balla4life22
08-05-2008, 04:17 PM
We're here to get our points across and make the best arguments we can, not to diss each other.

As for the topic at hand, I think it's important that we all recognize Pierce's ability to perform in the playoffs. Most people really seem to be undervaluing that fact. But that is what elevates Pierce into the top 15 IMO. A lot of the other players that you guys are saying are better than Pierce haven't been nearly as successful as Pierce has.

yeah i agree with all that

HesusdGOD
08-05-2008, 04:18 PM
You're calling others fools, when you say Paul Pierce is better than CP3. Listen if you want to talk just stats then Butler, put up numbers. But again, stop insulting everyone else when you say PP is better than CP3.


in what way is CP3 better then PP..neither won MVP..BOth made the ALL STAR team,Both Got past the first Round

differences...PP Team had the best record in the league,that means beating everyone else that u claim are better then him...multiple times...

He lead the celtics thru the playoffs, and then won the FInals MVP along with a Championship...CP3 was a good cenderella run...but he's not ready to take that next step into superstar just yet....

daleja424
08-05-2008, 04:19 PM
Underlined = Debatable
Bold = DEFINITE No!

1. Kobe- Pierce outplayed Kobe in the finals and won Finals MVP
2. Lebron- 2 seasons ago, Pierce scored 50 on Lebron in a Boston loss and even Lebron admitted that Pierce is the top forward in the league. Also, Pierce outplayed Lebron in the playoffs.
3. Chris Paul- I'm a Chris Paul fan, but I don't think he's better than Pierce yet.
4. Tim Duncan- I totally agree, Duncan has led his team deep into the playoffs every year since he got drafted.
5. Kevin Garnett- No way! Where was the great Kevin Garnett when Ray's shot was off and Pierce was meeting double teams every time he touched the ball? Where was he when we needed him most in the finals? Pierce was the man that the Celtics could depend on each and every night.
6. Dwyane Wade- Didn't the heat have the worst record in the league last year? Calm down heat fans, I know D-Wade was injured but you can look at their record in the games that Wade did play and it's still deeply sub .500 so tell me how he is better than Pierce and how he is ranked 6TH on this list right now. Please.
7. Amare Stoudemire Amare has one of the best point guards in the league on his team and he also has Shaq to take some of the defensive preasure off him...he better be scoring above 20 and grabbing 10 rebounds a game. He also better be getting past the 1st round of the playoffs...definitely not better than Pierce. He WAS better than Pierce that year before he got injured but that was when Pierce was top 5 in the league.
8. Deron Williams- WHAT!!!??? HOW can you compare Deron Williams to Paul Pierce? If people are going to say that Pierce only won because of the two all stars on his team then why isn't Deron Williams winning in the post season. He had a tough time against the EIGHTH seeded Warriors last year. Deron has Carlos Boozer who is an all star and AK-47 who is a borderline all star in the west each year but if AK played in the east, he'd definitely be an all star. So with those two players, shouldn't Deron be polishing his Finals MVP trophy right now?
9. Dwight Howard- Hm, this is a tough one. I'm not really a big fan of Dwight right now but I think he still needs time to develop. I definitely don't think he's better than Pierce right now. He has no outside game, no versatility. He's like a Shaq, but Shaq actually led his teams to victory.
10. Carmelo Anthony- Pierce outplays Carmelo in almost every game they play against each other...check the box scores.
11. Chris Bosh- NO WAY! Go compare the numbers. With the best 3pt percentage in the league last season and Bosh, "the unstoppable inside presence," Toronto should win every game.
12. Dirk Nowitzki- Pierce and Dirk were drafted in the same year so their career stats are actually comparable but all I'm going to say is that Dallas has been an elite team for the past 3-4 seasons and Dirk still can't lead them to that championship but instead chokes in the first round of the playoffs and gets knocked out by the eighth seed.
13. Yao Ming- Way too injury prone and undependable in games for me to want him on my team more than Pierce. Also, he has never been past the first round of the playoffs while he has T-Mac and one of the best perimeter defenders on his team. No way is he better than Pierce. I'm a Rockets fan too and with the addition of Ron Artest I think they're going to be a tough opponent this season.
14. Gilbert Arenas- Oooh, another tough one but if Washington also has a "big 3" that's "better than Boston's big 3" why didn't they make it past the 1st round?
15. Carlos Boozer- Same argument as Deron Williams.
16. Manu Ginobili- Ok, now this one kind of pissed me off. Can you honestly say that Manu is better than Pierce. I mean I'm a big Manu fan but I would never say he's better than Pierce. If you took Duncan and Parker off the Spurs team, Manu would be nothing. While Pierce was still averaging over 20 points a game without Garnett and Allen.
17. Paul Pierce(17th???)- Wow. he's even more underrated than I thought.
18. Elton Brand
19. Tracy Mcgrady
20. Joe Johnson

haha...if you really think that pierce is better then Wade you need to talk to someone...

GSW fan
08-05-2008, 04:19 PM
. A lot of the other players that you guys are saying are better than Pierce haven't been nearly as successful as Pierce has.

Alot of other players dont have kg and allen playing with them

balla4life22
08-05-2008, 04:21 PM
Alot of other players dont have kg and allen playing with them

but kg and allen have only been with pierce one year. Pierce has gottten to the playoffs and ECF many times before this year, everyone jsut forgets tho

daleja424
08-05-2008, 04:23 PM
I love how everyone on here says that pierce carried walker to the playoffs for so many year...HA! Walker wasnt always this bum... Walker wass an all-star player in his time in boston...

balla4life22
08-05-2008, 04:25 PM
I love how everyone on here says that pierce carried walker to the playoffs for so many year...HA! Walker wasnt always this bum... Walker wass an all-star player in his time in boston...

walker was a 1 time all star, worst shot taker ive ever seen, player. Not close to being on pierces level. he was lucky if he was ever a top 25 player. not exactly what u call a great number 2 option for a playoff team.

GSW fan
08-05-2008, 04:26 PM
walker was a 1 time all star, worst shot taker ive ever seen, player. Not close to being on pierces level. he was lucky if he was ever a top 25 player

hes lucky if he was top 50

knicks1214
08-05-2008, 04:26 PM
Pierce is not a top 15 player in the league...the ONLY reason he thinks he can say that he is the best is because he won the finals mvp...WITH TWO PROBABLY HOF PLAYERS...LeBron/Kobe are the best players in the NBA...no question about that. There are more than 15 players that are better than Pierce...MAYBE he is top 20...

NYMetros
08-05-2008, 04:27 PM
Alot of other players dont have kg and allen playing with them

Pierce made the Eastern Conference Finals twice without KG and Allen playing with him. So, I guess that destroys that theory.

The 2nd best player (behind Pierce) on Pierce's team at the time was Antoine Walker, lol. Pierce flat out carried his team throughout the playoffs.

Has Amare ever done this? Ginobli? McGrady? Yao? No.

MoBASS
08-05-2008, 04:27 PM
You people who say that Pierce "stopped" both Kobe and Lebron are out of your minds.

Are these are the same fans that were chanting "MVP" for Kobe IN Boston?

Lebron's game is all driving to the basket, and guess who was patrolling the middle? Kobe had to resort to jump shots for the same reason.

Sure Pierce made the big buckets, but his team would not have been there without KG. Garnett is the anchor, the glue that holds that team together.

GSW fan
08-05-2008, 04:28 PM
Pierce is not a top 15 player in the league...the ONLY reason he thinks he can say that he is the best is because he won the finals mvp...WITH TWO PROBABLY HOF PLAYERS...LeBron/Kobe are the best players in the NBA...no question about that. There are more than 15 players that are better than Pierce...MAYBE he is top 20...

name fifteen better than pierce

balla4life22
08-05-2008, 04:29 PM
You people who say that Pierce "stopped" both Kobe and Lebron are out of your minds.

Are these are the same fans that were chanting "MVP" for Kobe IN Boston?

Lebron's game is all driving to the basket, and guess who was patrolling the middle? Kobe had to resort to jump shots for the same reason.

Sure Pierce made the big buckets, but his team would not have been there without KG. Garnett is the anchor, the glue that holds that team together.

yeah and kobe cant win a championship without shaq. everyone needs help. duncan couldnt do it without parker and manu. kobe without shaq, billups without prince sheed and rip

HesusdGOD
08-05-2008, 04:30 PM
yea..Walker was an All star player..but PP was the STAR and THE face of the Celts..thats y Walker was expendable...

and granted..once he left..thats when the Celtics Fell off..but PP was still putting up 26 ,6, and 4 a game....

SportsFan1988
08-05-2008, 04:30 PM
Lets go through the positions:

Point guards I'd rather have: Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Baron Davis, Steve Nash.
SG: Kobe and Wade.
SF: L. James and Carmelo.
PF: Dirk, Duncan, Garnett, Brand, Bosh, and Boozer.
C: D.Howard and Yao Ming.

I am a Laker fan, but I am not biased. I'd say he just misses the top 15.

balla4life22
08-05-2008, 04:32 PM
everyone is forgetting pierce has been to the playoffs and ECF before this for many years. hes gotten far without kg and allen

BTownTeamsRKing
08-05-2008, 04:32 PM
i love how fans of other teams tell Boston fans who is the best player on the team.

ill say it again, when it gets tough, KG shyed away and Ray lost his shot.

at some point Pierce was the only real baller out there. Rondo didnt bother showing up on the road along with perkins.

Pierce carried the team in the toughest moments and never got nervous.

daleja424
08-05-2008, 04:35 PM
i love how fans of other teams tell Boston fans who is the best player on the team.

ill say it again, when it gets tough, KG shyed away and Ray lost his shot.

at some point Pierce was the only real baller out there. Rondo didnt bother showing up on the road along with perkins.

Pierce carried the team in the toughest moments and never got nervous.

the game is about more then scoring. defense? rebounds? ever heard of them? Garnett is the complete package and A LOT better then Pierce

HesusdGOD
08-05-2008, 04:38 PM
yeah and kobe cant win a championship without shaq. everyone needs help. duncan couldnt do it without parker and manu. kobe without shaq, billups without prince sheed and rip
agree

noone has won a championship by themselves... thats just dumb to make an excuse that he only won because of them....if my records are right...all 3 just won their first championship and first time in the finals...PP helped them out just as much as they did for him

NYMetros
08-05-2008, 04:38 PM
the game is about more then scoring. defense? rebounds? ever heard of them? Garnett is the complete package and A LOT better then Pierce

Sure, defense is very important. But you can't win if nobody is scoring. I saw it in the playoffs myself. Ray Allen was struggling terribly. Garnett had virtually disappeared for parts of games. Who did the Celtics lean on? Pierce.

Ex: Game 7 vs Cavs.

daleja424
08-05-2008, 04:40 PM
Sure, defense is very important. But you can't win if nobody is scoring. I saw it in the playoffs myself. Ray Allen was struggling terribly. Garnett had virtually disappeared for parts of games. Who did the Celtics lean on? Pierce.

Ex: Game 7 vs Cavs.

mhmmm...and KG in the middle scaring the **** outta Kobe didnt mean anything...

BTownTeamsRKing
08-05-2008, 04:41 PM
the game is about more then scoring. defense? rebounds? ever heard of them? Garnett is the complete package and A LOT better then Pierce

u know Pierce led his team in rebounding for few years in Boston. and as for defense, yes KG brought the attitude and talent, but Pierce caught on to it and he played GREAT defensive all year and into the Finals.

downsos
08-05-2008, 04:41 PM
I am a Bulls fan and I say he is a top 15 player, the only thing that changed between last year and the year before was he had a chance to prove it on a national stage, and I know he made the playoffs before but we all know that those teams sucked and he carried them to the playoffs.

bogdanrom
08-05-2008, 04:42 PM
in what way is CP3 better then PP..neither won MVP..BOth made the ALL STAR team,Both Got past the first Round

differences...PP Team had the best record in the league,that means beating everyone else that u claim are better then him...multiple times...

He lead the celtics thru the playoffs, and then won the FInals MVP along with a Championship...CP3 was a good cenderella run...but he's not ready to take that next step into superstar just yet....

Chris Paul Paul Pierce
PPG 21.1 > 19.6
RPG 4 < 5
APG 11.6 > 4.5
SPG 2.7 > 1.3
BPG .1 < .4
FG% 48% > 46%
Chris gets more points, assists, steals, and shoots a better field goald percentage. While Pierce is better than Chris at rebounding, by one rebound, and gets .3 more blocks. Also Chris Paul finished SECOND in the MVP Voting last year. And are you saying that just becasue his team had the best record that he is better then everyone else. I think it's time for someone bed time.

NYMetros
08-05-2008, 04:43 PM
mhmmm...and KG in the middle scaring the **** outta Kobe didnt mean anything...

When did I say that? I said that if there was no Pierce, there would have been no offense.

BTW, I was talking about the Cavs-Celtics game where Pierce dropped 45 points on Lebron.

atl_braves_fan
08-05-2008, 04:43 PM
dude he got the the ECF twice with anotoine walker as the second best player on the team , without kg and allen what do u have to say to that? You have nothing to say to that cuz ive mentioned it a hundred times and u have nothing to say
Antoine Walker averaged around 20 ppg, 7 rpg and 5 apg in the years that they went to the finals. That is pretty good for a second option in a then-weak eastern conference.

I think that you are discounting the effect that Walker had because he has completely fallen off the map and turned into a total 'chucker' as he has gotten older.

MoBASS
08-05-2008, 04:43 PM
i love how fans of other teams tell Boston fans who is the best player on the team.

ill say it again, when it gets tough, KG shyed away and Ray lost his shot.

at some point Pierce was the only real baller out there. Rondo didnt bother showing up on the road along with perkins.

Pierce carried the team in the toughest moments and never got nervous.

Buddy, have you ever heard the phrase "offense wins games, defense wins championships?"

Being a team leader is not just who can make the tough shots. Defense is 50% of basketball, maybe even more. In the case of Boston, it's a lot more than 50%.

KG is the defense leader, and therefore the leader of the team.

Padres Son
08-05-2008, 04:44 PM
I think he's in the top 15.

Obviously it's an objective call, though. It's just like when you step on the court with your boys; you know that some of them are better than you, and you know that you're better than some of the others... but there are always those few friends who you might be better than some days, and other days they got you beat.

That's why no one can agree when it comes to comparing PP to T-Mac, Melo, Yao, Parker, Arenas, Johnson, etc... Because any one of them can torch any other one of them on any given day. That's why they play the game.

I'm giving PP the benefit of the doubt because he was one with the Finals MVP hardware in his hand at the end of the year.

bogdanrom
08-05-2008, 04:44 PM
everyone is forgetting pierce has been to the playoffs and ECF before this for many years. hes gotten far without kg and allen

KG went to the WCF a couple years back.

NYMetros
08-05-2008, 04:46 PM
KG went to the WCF a couple years back.

We're not comparing KG to Pierce.

daleja424
08-05-2008, 04:47 PM
Buddy, have you ever heard the phrase "offense wins games, defense wins championships?"

Being a team leader is not just who can make the tough shots. Defense is 50% of basketball, maybe even more. In the case of Boston, it's a lot more than 50%.

KG is the defense leader, and therefore the leader of the team.

haha...ya Pierce is so good that he won defensive player of the year and was on the all nba first team... oh wait that was KG...

*Superman*
08-05-2008, 04:47 PM
Wow, close poll. Does this really take 15+ pages to see if he is top 15? Who cares.

daleja424
08-05-2008, 04:49 PM
haha...tied pollll wow!

ARMIN12NBA
08-05-2008, 04:50 PM
Of course he is. He was the best player on the floor in the finals.

So do you think Tony Parker is a top 15 player? Do you think Cedric Maxwell was a top 15 player after he won Final MVP? Do you think Dennis Johnson was a top 15 player after he won Finals MVP? Do you think Joe Dumars was a top 15 player after he won Finals MVP?

Your argument is incredibly flawed JordansBulls. You can't base a players worth over a course of 6 games!!! You have to base a players worth over a course of 82 and beyond.

GSW fan
08-05-2008, 04:51 PM
ima go on my laptop nd vote

GSW fan
08-05-2008, 04:52 PM
So do you think Tony Parker is a top 15 player? Do you think Cedric Maxwell was a top 15 player after he won Final MVP? Do you think Dennis Johnson was a top 15 player after he won Finals MVP? Do you think Joe Dumars was a top 15 player after he won Finals MVP?

Your argument is incredibly flawed JordansBulls. You can't base a players worth over a course of 6 games!!! You have to base a players worth over a course of 82 and beyond.

tony parker and joe dumars were top 15

midwestmadman
08-05-2008, 04:53 PM
I am a Pistons fan which automatically makes me hate both Boston Celtics and the L.A. Lakers. With that being said not even I can deny that Paul Pierce is a top 15 player in the league today. I wouldn't go so far as to put him in the top 15 All-Time like a crazy Boston fan might, but he's career isn't over and someday I might say top 15 All-Time! They guy is still pretty young, and he has a complete game, one that really pissed me off in the ECf last season, but you can't hate on a guy for winning. Whinning well that's another story for another thread.

HesusdGOD
08-05-2008, 04:54 PM
Chris Paul Paul Pierce
PPG 21.1 > 19.6
RPG 4 < 5
APG 11.6 > 4.5
SPG 2.7 > 1.3
BPG .1 < .4
FG% 48% > 46%
Chris gets more points, assists, steals, and shoots a better field goald percentage. While Pierce is better than Chris at rebounding, by one rebound, and gets .3 more blocks. Also Chris Paul finished SECOND in the MVP Voting last year. And are you saying that just becasue his team had the best record that he is better then everyone else. I think it's time for someone bed time.


wow..r u honestly going to try to compare last years stats..
PP been mentioned n MVP votes also..whats wrong with this guy...2nd or fouth in voting..if ur not the MVP..noone cares...

2ndly this was CP3s only year that he did something...a playa cant make top 5 just off one year..that year could b as fluke as ya basketball IQ dude...just my opinion ...not only that..PP had 2 other all stars on his team which took away from his stats..pierce is a multi all star..n a multi ECF shower..CP3 hasnt been there yet

GSW fan
08-05-2008, 04:55 PM
why do they call it threads?

ARMIN12NBA
08-05-2008, 04:55 PM
tony parker and joe dumars were top 15

That is your opinion and I respect that, but I can easily name 15 players that were better than Joe Dumars at the time and 15 players better than Tony Parker right now...

ARMIN12NBA
08-05-2008, 04:56 PM
I am a Pistons fan which automatically makes me hate both Boston Celtics and the L.A. Lakers. With that being said not even I can deny that Paul Pierce is a top 15 player in the league today. I wouldn't go so far as to put him in the top 15 All-Time like a crazy Boston fan might, but he's career isn't over and someday I might say top 15 All-Time! They guy is still pretty young, and he has a complete game, one that really pissed me off in the ECf last season, but you can't hate on a guy for winning. Whinning well that's another story for another thread.

If Paul Pierce is top 15 of All-Time then Kobe Bryant is clearly the greatest of all time and Michael Jordan among others are on another planet of greatness...

GSW fan
08-05-2008, 04:57 PM
That is your opinion and I respect that, but I can easily name 15 players that were better than Joe Dumars at the time and 15 players better than Tony Parker right now...

can u give me the list

JordansBulls
08-05-2008, 04:57 PM
It's kinda sad that people from both sides are voting and what is sadder is that many Lakers fans are not giving Pierce his due after he stepped up his game and outplayed the guy people say is the best in the league. Not only that but he held him down at that. You would think they would say Pierce was the man and a top 5 guy with that, but no, they say he isn't even top 15.
:pity:


NOTE: All I know is that if I was proclaimed the best in the NBA that I would want someone else who is top 5/10 to be the guy to outplay me not someone who is not even top 15 if that is the case.

JOSETHEALLSTAR
08-05-2008, 04:57 PM
top 25

Wake's Fastball
08-05-2008, 04:58 PM
Antoine Walker averaged around 20 ppg, 7 rpg and 5 apg in the years that they went to the finals. That is pretty good for a second option in a then-weak eastern conference.

I think that you are discounting the effect that Walker had because he has completely fallen off the map and turned into a total 'chucker' as he has gotten older.

Walker's shooting percentages are actually higher since he left Boston than they were in the last two years he was there.

To put things in perspective, while the guy is one of the league's least flashy players, if he keeps up at a pace similar to last season until he's 35 (not unreasonable to ask), he'll be top-15 in career points scored, top-100 in career rebounds, top-50 in career assists and top-20 in career steals. Are those kind of numbers, on top of being a reigning NBA champ and Finals MVP really not enough to put him in the top fifteen players of his era?

daleja424
08-05-2008, 04:58 PM
wow..r u honestly going to try to compare last years stats..
PP been mentioned n MVP votes also..whats wrong with this guy...2nd or fouth in voting..if ur not the MVP..noone cares...

2ndly this was CP3s only year that he did something...a playa cant make top 5 just off one year..that year could b as fluke as ya basketball IQ dude...just my opinion ...not only that..PP had 2 other all stars on his team which took away from his stats..pierce is a multi all star..n a multi ECF shower..CP3 hasnt been there yet

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

...get outta here with that arguement... thats :censored: and you know it... and if you dont then :speechless::speechless::speechless:

GSW fan
08-05-2008, 04:58 PM
If Paul Pierce is top 15 of All-Time then Kobe Bryant is clearly the greatest of all time and Michael Jordan among others are on another planet of greatness...

kobe is second behind jordan

knicks1214
08-05-2008, 04:59 PM
@GSWfan-Here are more than 15 players better than Pierce-no particular order
Kobe, Lebron, Howard, Dirk, Williams, Paul, KG, Nash (maybe), Stoudemire, Bosh, Davis, Anthony, Iverson (maybe), Arenas, Wade, Iguodala (better defender and equal on offense), Roy, Jefferson, Duncan, and West...there you go

daleja424
08-05-2008, 05:02 PM
Walker's shooting percentages are actually higher since he left Boston than they were in the last two years he was there.

To put things in perspective, while the guy is one of the league's least flashy players, if he keeps up at a pace similar to last season until he's 35 (not unreasonable to ask), he'll be top-15 in career points scored, top-100 in career rebounds, top-50 in career assists and top-20 in career steals. Are those kind of numbers, on top of being a reigning NBA champ and Finals MVP really not enough to put him in the top fifteen players of his era?

I dont question his career. he has been a great player and was easily a top 5 player in his prime... but that time is passed. According to your arguement Shaq is still the best player in the league?!? :eyebrow: The question is top 15 TODAY...no in his era...

HesusdGOD
08-05-2008, 05:02 PM
thats such an easy list lol

GSW fan
08-05-2008, 05:04 PM
@GSWfan-Here are more than 15 players better than Pierce-no particular order
Kobe, Lebron, Howard, Dirk, Williams, Paul, KG, Nash (maybe), Stoudemire, Bosh, Davis, Anthony, Iverson (maybe), Arenas, Wade, Iguodala (better defender and equal on offense), Roy, Jefferson, Duncan, and West...there you go

nash doesnt deserve to be there niether does dirk iverson arenas roy jefferson or iggy

ARMIN12NBA
08-05-2008, 05:12 PM
can u give me the list

Yes. Here is 15+ players better than Joe Dumars at the time:

Magic Johnson
Michael Jordan
Larry Bird
Kevin McHale
James Worthy
Hakeem Olajuwan
Charles Barkley
Isiah Thomas
Karl Malone
John Stockton
Mitch Richmond
Tom Chambers
Chris Mullin
Patrick Ewing
Kevin Johnson
Dominique Wilkens
Terry Cummings
Robert Parish
Dale Ellis
Mark Price
Larry Nance
Alvin Robertson

Here are 15+ players better than Tony Parker after the 2007 season:

Kobe Bryant
Steve Nash
Lebron James
Tim Duncan
Dirk Nowitzki
Amare Staudamire
Chris Bosh
Yao Ming
Gilbert Arenas
Tracy McGrady
Kevin Garnett
Carmelo Anthony
Dwight Howard
Dwyane Wade
Chauncey Billups
Jason Kidd
Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Carlos Boozer

Wake's Fastball
08-05-2008, 05:15 PM
I dont question his career. he has been a great player and was easily a top 5 player in his prime... but that time is passed. According to your arguement Shaq is still the best player in the league?!? :eyebrow: The question is top 15 TODAY...no in his era...

But see, I'm of the opinion that he's in his prime now. He's taken a statistical hit, but nothing that doesn't come with being able to now share the load on offense again; in fact his shooting percentages are all well, well above where they've been most of his career.

ARMIN12NBA
08-05-2008, 05:18 PM
It's kinda sad that people from both sides are voting and what is sadder is that many Lakers fans are not giving Pierce his due after he stepped up his game and outplayed the guy people say is the best in the league. Not only that but he held him down at that. You would think they would say Pierce was the man and a top 5 guy with that, but no, they say he isn't even top 15.
:pity:


NOTE: All I know is that if I was proclaimed the best in the NBA that I would want someone else who is top 5/10 to be the guy to outplay me not someone who is not even top 15 if that is the case.

JB, you never answered back to my post...You said that because he won Finals MVP that he is automatically in top 15:

"So do you think Tony Parker is a top 15 player? Do you think Cedric Maxwell was a top 15 player after he won Final MVP? Do you think Dennis Johnson was a top 15 player after he won Finals MVP? Do you think Joe Dumars was a top 15 player after he won Finals MVP?

Your argument is incredibly flawed JordansBulls. You can't base a players worth over a course of 6 games!!! You have to base a players worth over a course of 82 and beyond."

MoBASS
08-05-2008, 05:18 PM
This thread has developed a mind of its own!!

LaKeRsSuCk323
08-05-2008, 05:21 PM
im from los angeles..
but... im a clipper fan...!!
and i vote Hell 2 the yes...
Pauly can get to the basket against anyone.. and he can get you up in the air from the 3, hit it and get the and 1 so yes...

ARMIN12NBA
08-05-2008, 05:28 PM
im from los angeles..
but... im a clipper fan...!!
and i vote Hell 2 the yes...
Pauly can get to the basket against anyone.. and he can get you up in the air from the 3, hit it and get the and 1 so yes...

So anybody who can make a four-point play is a top 15 player in your eyes...That's some insightful thinking :confused:

JordansBulls
08-05-2008, 05:41 PM
JB, you never answered back to my post...You said that because he won Finals MVP that he is automatically in top 15:

"So do you think Tony Parker is a top 15 player? Do you think Cedric Maxwell was a top 15 player after he won Final MVP? Do you think Dennis Johnson was a top 15 player after he won Finals MVP? Do you think Joe Dumars was a top 15 player after he won Finals MVP?

Your argument is incredibly flawed JordansBulls. You can't base a players worth over a course of 6 games!!! You have to base a players worth over a course of 82 and beyond."

Not really because Pierce has been on all nba teams and has been an allstar multiple times. Parker nor Billups really have ever.
You can apply that logic for guys who haven't been good for the season, but Pierce has always been a good performer in the season.

If you want to compare it fairly Pierce's numbers are right with Kobe's.

Pierce and Kobe (http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=piercpa01&y1=2008&p2=bryanko01&y2=2008)


Playoffs (http://www.nba.com/statistics/encyc/Player.jsp)

Now I don't think Pierce is better than Kobe, but to say he isn't even top 15 when his numbers are virtually the same is kinda silly especially after outplaying him in the finals.

iwish7284
08-05-2008, 05:46 PM
yes definitely a top 15.

look at his stats over the past four seasons

23ppg, 6rb, 4ast.

ARMIN12NBA
08-05-2008, 05:49 PM
Not really because Pierce has been on all nba teams and has been an allstar multiple times. Parker nor Billups really have ever.
You can apply that logic for guys who haven't been good for the season, but Pierce has always been a good performer in the season.

If you want to compare it fairly Pierce's numbers are right with Kobe's.

Pierce and Kobe (http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=piercpa01&y1=2008&p2=bryanko01&y2=2008)


Playoffs (http://www.nba.com/statistics/encyc/Player.jsp)

Now I don't think Pierce is better than Kobe, but to say he isn't even top 15 when his numbers are virtually the same is kinda silly especially after outplaying him in the finals.

Pierce is not better than Kobe nor is he a top 15 player. Those were career stats, but we are clearly asking about last year where Kobe's stats blow Pierce's out of the water.

Kobe Bryant
Steve Nash
Lebron James
Tim Duncan
Dirk Nowitzki
Amare Staudamire
Chris Bosh
Yao Ming
Gilbert Arenas
Ron Artest
Manu Ginobli
Joe Johnson
Tracy McGrady
Kevin Garnett
Carmelo Anthony
Dwight Howard
Dwyane Wade
Chauncey Billups
Richard Hamilton
Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Carlos Boozer

All those players have extremely strong cases of being better than Paul Pierce. Before the Finals, he was NOT considered a top 15 player. Like I said before, 6 games does not show your worth. A whole season shows how good of a player you are and clearly, over the course of the season, Pierce was not a top 15 player in the NBA.

JordansBulls
08-05-2008, 05:53 PM
Pierce is not better than Kobe nor is he a top 15 player. Those were career stats, but we are clearly asking about last year where Kobe's stats blow Pierce's out of the water.

Kobe Bryant
Steve Nash
Lebron James
Tim Duncan
Dirk Nowitzki
Amare Staudamire
Chris Bosh
Yao Ming
Gilbert Arenas
Ron Artest
Manu Ginobli
Joe Johnson
Tracy McGrady
Kevin Garnett
Carmelo Anthony
Dwight Howard
Dwyane Wade
Chauncey Billups
Richard Hamilton
Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Carlos Boozer

All those players have extremely strong cases of being better than Paul Pierce. Before the Finals, he was NOT considered a top 15 player. Like I said before, 6 games does not show your worth. A whole season shows how good of a player you are and clearly, over the course of the season, Pierce was not a top 15 player in the NBA.

If we are talking about last year then none of those players in bold were better than Pierce. Mcgrady, Melo nor Nash either.

And if it is about just stats then that means Lebron and CP3 are the best in the league as they have the best stats and best efficiency overall in the league.

Dirty Dirk41
08-05-2008, 05:56 PM
^^agree wit JB...manu, artest, billups, rip?? better than the truth?? now where just trying to fight...u take pierce off the celtics and replace him with either artest,or manu,or rip,or billups and theres no banner 17. u should know b-ball better than that u silly goose!!

pc4celts39
08-05-2008, 05:57 PM
obviously i am a celtics fan too, but just look at the 2002 celtics roster when the celtics made the eastern conference finals, pierce didnt have much to work with and the celtics dominated the east

ARMIN12NBA
08-05-2008, 05:57 PM
If we are talking about last year then none of those players in bold were better than Pierce. Mcgrady, Melo nor Nash either.

And if it is about just stats then that means Lebron and CP3 are the best in the league as they have the best stats and best efficiency overall in the league.

You were the one who mentioned stats. I simply stated that Kobe's stats were better. I also think Kobe is a much better overall player.

Gilbert Arenas should not have been on that list, but everybody else has a strong case for being better than Pierce including McGrady, Melo, and Nash as well as everybody else you put in bold.

ejdacanay
08-05-2008, 05:58 PM
Kobe
LBJ
Garnett
Paul
Duncan
Stoudemire
Nash
Howard
D-Wade
Bosh
Nowitzki
Iverson
Williams

Very close.

mjt20mik
08-05-2008, 06:00 PM
Top 15.. yes.. and I'm a Raptors fan.

ARMIN12NBA
08-05-2008, 06:04 PM
obviously i am a celtics fan too, but just look at the 2002 celtics roster when the celtics made the eastern conference finals, pierce didnt have much to work with and the celtics dominated the east

They had 49 wins as well as a 6-7 record in the playoffs (went a full 5 games in the first round...)...That is hardly dominating. Also, don't forget, he had Antoine Walker who was averaging 22 PPG as well as 9 RPG. That sounds like he had something to work with.