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PistonsFan14
08-04-2008, 09:55 PM
Well I have given up on this year. This team has 0 chemistry. Verlander who we counted on all this while is slumping...we have had to many losses that shouls have been wins..Its ridiculous. When they lose they dont even look depressed (some of them) We have guys that are a joke and washed up and its time for a change. I think DD should hit the free agent market as hard as possible.

Heres what i think it should be next year

2009 Detroit Tigers
1. Granderson CF
2. Polonco 2B
3. Joyce LF
4. Mags RF
5. Cabrera 1B
6. Guillen 3B
7. Sean Casey DH
8. Brandon Inge C
9. Ramon Santiago SS

Bench:
Thames LF/DH
Thomas OF
Holliman SS/2B/3B
Raburn Utility
Larrish DH/1B
Free Agent Catcher?



Pitching Rotation
1. Verlander
2. A.J Burnett
3. Jeremy Bonderman
4. Armando Galaraga
5. Kenny Rogers

Bullpen:
Fossom (Cant get Burnett i could see him Miner or Lambert Starting)
Miner
Seay
Mcbride (Like to see him back)
Rodney
Farnsworth
Dolsi
Lopez
Zumaya (Closer)



*Sign Sean Casey...I think hes a good left handed bat and everybody likes him in the club house.

*Cut Sheffield

*Let Renteria go

*Sign a pitcher Burnett

*Dump Robertson or send him to the minors untill he can learn to pitch. Because hes not a pitcher...hes a thrower. Or put him in the bullpen?

* Sign Back Up FA Catcher? Lo Duca?


I dont know...I am pretty upset with the tigers...what do you guys think? I know we have some more talent in the minors. But i just did this off the top of my head.

Zoomlander
08-05-2008, 12:27 AM
The Tigers will be definitely looking at a true lead off hitter......which makes the most sense to me would be Rafael Furcal.........first he is a SS and this will let Granderson move down in the order......this move would give the Tigers more speed, which they are lacking at the moment.

I will agree with you on them signing a starter.........they need a number 2 guy behind Verlander............but remember Dontrelle Willis and Bonderman are still young and could still be something.

With the Sean Casey signing i don't agree with it........i know sean is a great club house guy but i cant stand a team with a DH only having 5 homeruns a year.......just get some hug guy to hit 30-40 homers.

and as for the bullpen......i would like to see more young guys get chances and i do belief it would be smart if the Tigers went after .....K-ROD!

PistonsFan14
08-05-2008, 12:44 AM
yeah willis is a question but if he panned out it would help tons...and if nothing more with casey he could be a good role player like he is with boston.. Also i seen furcal on the list...but i think he is done...and now they found out hes older then he really is sense he lied about his age... hes just a mess

Epic89
08-05-2008, 01:07 AM
1. Let Jones, Rogers, and Renteria walk. RID YOURSELF OF THE CANCER THAT IS NATE ROBERTSON (Trade him for ANYTHING)
2. Sign Derek Lowe
3. Sign Rafael Furcal
4. Sign Brian Fuentes
5. Sign a couple 'pen guys.
6. Pray to god Bondo and Willis come to play

Lineup
1. Furcal SS
2. Polanco 2B
3. Granderson CF
4. Cabrera 1B
5. Ordonez RF
6. Guillen 3B
7. Sheffield DH
8. Thames LF
9. Inge C

Rotation
1. Justin Verlander
2. Jeremy Bonderman
3. Derek Lowe
4. Armando Galarraga
5. Dontrelle Willis

JackB
08-05-2008, 08:03 AM
You realize that Furcal has back issues? he has been on the DL most of the season. Joe Crede had back surgery and is still have problems and back on the DL. Furcal when healthy would be a huge upgrade at leadoff but I think I have to see at least a full year of him NOT being on the DL before I give him the money.
I agree with trying to get F-rod. But honestly I can't see him signing with the Tigers. Even if they show him the money.
Robertson has to go. Or maybe put him in the pen.
Casey is a great clubhouse guy but like posted above . We need somebody with some pop. He does boost a pretty nice batting average. But is also a little slow on the bases.
Its too early to get into who they can get but its nice to dream. The money thats tied up in this team should have brought better results.
Renteria is a NL player. He didn't hit with the Red Sox either plus hes' not a great shortstop.Time to move on. I'm for giving a young guy a shot and using the money somewhere else. Hell if we get .230-.240 from Santiago thats not much worse then Edgar.And it would save us a bunch of money.

Tragedy
08-05-2008, 10:18 AM
1. Let Jones, Rogers, and Renteria walk. RID YOURSELF OF THE CANCER THAT IS NATE ROBERTSON (Trade him for ANYTHING)
2. Sign Derek Lowe
3. Sign Rafael Furcal
4. Sign Brian Fuentes
5. Sign a couple 'pen guys.
6. Pray to god Bondo and Willis come to play

Lineup
1. Furcal SS
2. Polanco 2B
3. Granderson CF
4. Cabrera 1B
5. Ordonez RF
6. Guillen 3B
7. Sheffield DH
8. Thames LF
9. Inge C

Rotation
1. Justin Verlander
2. Jeremy Bonderman
3. Derek Lowe
4. Armando Galarraga
5. Dontrelle Willis
I like the sign Derek Lowe. That makes some good sense. Allowing Rogers to walk and trying to find a trade partner for Robertson while bringing in a GB specialist like Derek Lowe would really solidify the rotation for 2009.

As for the SS position, my Red Sox will likely have Julio Lugo available.:p

Lionsforlife
08-05-2008, 02:43 PM
If we fall completely out of the race (which is more than likely) I say blow the team up.

I would actually drop Jones, Rogers, Renteria, and Shefand see if you can get anything in trade from Robertson, Guillen, and Thames.

Joyce, Granderson, and Mags obviously make up the outfield with Larish or Hessman at third, Santiago or Hollimon at short, Polanco at second and Cabrera at first. Hessman/Larish could be used at DH as well.

Then obviously go after 2 pitchers, one starter and one closer, a backup catcher (or future catcher) and either a shortstop/DH.

I just say blow it up and rebuild with the young guys.

Bondomania
08-06-2008, 12:19 PM
you don't blow the team up.. that is ridiculous.. we still have a TON of young talent on this team...

in my opinion Verlander is NOTTTT!!!! an ace.. he doesn't do the things that an ace does.. doesn't keep his pitch count down, isn't a great stopper in the rotation to stop losing streaks, doesn't save the BP when needed, isn't a huge strikeout guy, isn't a big game pitcher.. we need an ace on this staff so that Verlander can learn from and then move to that spot in a few years.. i like Sheets and Burnett.. Lowe is a number 3 or 4 starter..

Lo Duca is garbage and can't hit his way out of a paper bag.. might as well just ride with Sardinha and save salary.. Furcal isn't a bad choice.. might want to look at Orlando Cabrera, he isn't happy in chicago and won't resign with them..

As far as Sean Casey, he would most likely be a bench player on this team.. Larish in my opinion should start at DH before him, Larish is younger, fast, and has WAY more pop in his bat.. Casey if you want to sign him should just be a mentor/clubhouse presence type guy

stanpapi
08-06-2008, 10:59 PM
I'm all for bringing Casey back as a Dave Bergman type, but in a very limited role. He'll straighten out the clubhouse anyway. And I don't know who's talking about blowing this team up, but there have to be some serious changes. For starters, you have to have some platoon positions. And DH and leftfield are certainly options. Going out and buying the most talent you can on the open market isn't going to work either. Get a couple character guys who are willing to run through a wall. Hell, get a couple guys who are willing and able to break into a sprint, and I'll be happy. This is a suckass team, never said that about any Tiger team before, but this is a suckass team. No grit whatsoever.

Bondomania
08-07-2008, 10:40 AM
i think leftfield will be Joyce's to lose next year... i don't think we need to platoon him, i think he needs to get consistant AB's and consistant field time to see if he can be an everyday player at this level..

stanpapi
08-07-2008, 06:00 PM
The only thing Joyce has earned is the right to start a fair number of games over the next month. The guy still has to earn a job in camp, no matter what he does now. And that's the point. Guys need to show up at camp ready to win a job. To do that, you have to have a couple guys (other than pitchers) actually win jobs at camp each year. Around here, a guy hits .400 and Jimbo taps Jacque Jones.

DamusFucious777
08-09-2008, 12:07 AM
Furcal is already showing signs of being the next Renteria in decline. Orlando Cabrera may be right being Rafael.

Besides, the Tigers will likely onlywant a one year fix at SS.... not sign anyone expensive for 3-4 years. Hollimon is having a terrible season. He may not even be ready for utility duty in April 2009.

The Tigers have around $100M tied up to only one-half of the 2009 roster. They will spend more carefully this winter - filling holes in pitching and catching foremost. Inge is doing terrible ioffensively at catcher. He had the same offensive setback in 2003 and early 2004 while catching. Platooning him may be the best medicine to up his bat production.

No Sean Casey please!! Corner infielders and DHs are supposed to display some power.

------------
Triple Se7en

mark1125
08-09-2008, 08:39 AM
Furcal is already showing signs of being the next Renteria in decline. Orlando Cabrera may be right being Rafael.

Besides, the Tigers will likely onlywant a one year fix at SS.... not sign anyone expensive for 3-4 years. Hollimon is having a terrible season. He may not even be ready for utility duty in April 2009.

The Tigers have around $100M tied up to only one-half of the 2009 roster. They will spend more carefully this winter - filling holes in pitching and catching foremost. Inge is doing terrible ioffensively at catcher. He had the same offensive setback in 2003 and early 2004 while catching. Platooning him may be the best medicine to up his bat production.

No Sean Casey please!! Corner infielders and DHs are supposed to display some power.

------------
Triple Se7en


To be honest, I think Santiago has earned a shot at more playing time. I don't think we need to run out and buy another 30 something year old SS. I say we give Santiago a shot and pick up a solid utility guy that could step in and help should he struggle. He is gold glove calibur defense, switch hits, can run, and is a switch hitter. If he can play with great D and hit .250, I would be happy.

Spend money on pitching, pitching, and pitching.

Bondomania
08-09-2008, 12:28 PM
agreed... plus worst case scenario is that is buys enough time for either Worth of Iorg to develop and come up and contribute..

scottie
08-09-2008, 08:15 PM
You realize that Furcal has back issues? he has been on the DL most of the season. Joe Crede had back surgery and is still have problems and back on the DL. Furcal when healthy would be a huge upgrade at leadoff but I think I have to see at least a full year of him NOT being on the DL before I give him the money.
I agree with trying to get F-rod. But honestly I can't see him signing with the Tigers. Even if they show him the money.
Robertson has to go. Or maybe put him in the pen.
Casey is a great clubhouse guy but like posted above . We need somebody with some pop. He does boost a pretty nice batting average. But is also a little slow on the bases.
Its too early to get into who they can get but its nice to dream. The money thats tied up in this team should have brought better results.
Renteria is a NL player. He didn't hit with the Red Sox either plus hes' not a great shortstop.Time to move on. I'm for giving a young guy a shot and using the money somewhere else. Hell if we get .230-.240 from Santiago thats not much worse then Edgar.And it would save us a bunch of money.

agree, good post

scottie
08-09-2008, 08:20 PM
To be honest, I think Santiago has earned a shot at more playing time. I don't think we need to run out and buy another 30 something year old SS. I say we give Santiago a shot and pick up a solid utility guy that could step in and help should he struggle. He is gold glove calibur defense, switch hits, can run, and is a switch hitter. If he can play with great D and hit .250, I would be happy.

Spend money on pitching, pitching, and pitching.

Santiago has had his chances and blown them before, are you forgetting about the previous years he played with the tigers and when he was on other teams. The guy clearly is lacking something. thats not to say anything bad about him, its just I don't want a
.250 guy at shortstop if we have the choice. True he's doing better this year in limited spot time, but this year could be a splash in the pan. And maybe Jim L. is using the guy in the proper way, that s why hes doing better. I'd rather see one of our farm players there if we're only looking for a .250 guy

mark1125
08-10-2008, 09:19 AM
Santiago has had his chances and blown them before, are you forgetting about the previous years he played with the tigers and when he was on other teams. The guy clearly is lacking something. thats not to say anything bad about him, its just I don't want a
.250 guy at shortstop if we have the choice. True he's doing better this year in limited spot time, but this year could be a splash in the pan. And maybe Jim L. is using the guy in the proper way, that s why hes doing better. I'd rather see one of our farm players there if we're only looking for a .250 guy


I definately don't think Santiago is the solution. My thought is that instead of getting the Renterias or Cabrarer (Orlando that is), put Santiagos glove in there and focus on the pitching. He's cheap, quick, and plays good defense. They have bigger issues to address. Honestly, I would rather watch him play right now than Renteria.

stanpapi
08-10-2008, 10:58 AM
Whether or not Santiago is the solution,he has earned another shot. I have concerns as to whether he can hit as much as .250 over the long haul. And maybe this year is a flash in the pan. Same time, on this very day, he is the better solution. In light of the fact that Renteria can't field or hit, you go with Santiago because he is doing both right now.

Can Santiago do it over the long haul? No one can say, but if you don't try you won't know. Remember, Santiago is an experienced baseball player now. He's a smarter player, too. He can field SS better than just about any SS, has done so in pressure situations. As of today, he's hitting well over .300 with 60 or 70 ABs. And you always allow for the possibility of a player working on his game and getting better. It's called a late bloomer, and they do exist. So you just give him a try and see what happens.

Best case scenario: Experience bumps up Santiago's long haul average up to .260, .270, and you have your solution at SS because his D is so pure. You bat him 8th or 9th, and hope he gives you some hard-working small ball. Worst case: You end up with a month or two of errorless baseball from a .220 SS. And when you figure in Renteria's inability to field his position, the Tigers would still be ahead in this department. Like, your SS has to be able to field. It's really important. He's your quarterback.

Either way, Santiago would still have to win a job in spring training, and it doesn't mean you stop looking. Maybe next year's camp includes a competition. I don't know, but that's what I'd like to see -- a competition for a job. That's a long time from now. But as of today, Santiago has earned the right to play that position at least half of the time for now. Put him in, Jim. It's the right thing to do, and you certainly won't be any worse off.

scottie
08-10-2008, 12:03 PM
I definately don't think Santiago is the solution. My thought is that instead of getting the Renterias or Cabrarer (Orlando that is), put Santiagos glove in there and focus on the pitching. He's cheap, quick, and plays good defense. They have bigger issues to address. Honestly, I would rather watch him play right now than Renteria.

Renteria is a career .300 hitter. I perdict by the end of the year he'll be right around .300. He has frusturated me though. I hear what your saying about pitching, but many times to offence needs help too. I think the tigers have been shut out more times than anyother MLB team.

scottie
08-10-2008, 12:17 PM
Whether or not Santiago is the solution,he has earned another shot. I have concerns as to whether he can hit as much as .250 over the long haul. And maybe this year is a flash in the pan. Same time, on this very day, he is the better solution. In light of the fact that Renteria can't field or hit, you go with Santiago because he is doing both right now.

Can Santiago do it over the long haul? No one can say, but if you don't try you won't know. Remember, Santiago is an experienced baseball player now. He's a smarter player, too. He can field SS better than just about any SS, has done so in pressure situations. As of today, he's hitting well over .300 with 60 or 70 ABs. And you always allow for the possibility of a player working on his game and getting better. It's called a late bloomer, and they do exist. So you just give him a try and see what happens.

Best case scenario: Experience bumps up Santiago's long haul average up to .260, .270, and you have your solution at SS because his D is so pure. You bat him 8th or 9th, and hope he gives you some hard-working small ball. Worst case: You end up with a month or two of errorless baseball from a .220 SS. And when you figure in Renteria's inability to field his position, the Tigers would still be ahead in this department. Like, your SS has to be able to field. It's really important. He's your quarterback.

Either way, Santiago would still have to win a job in spring training, and it doesn't mean you stop looking. Maybe next year's camp includes a competition. I don't know, but that's what I'd like to see -- a competition for a job. That's a long time from now. But as of today, Santiago has earned the right to play that position at least half of the time for now. Put him in, Jim. It's the right thing to do, and you certainly won't be any worse off.

I guess you could look at it like that, but I believe since the guy has 3 errors is 18 games @ short stop this year it most certianly doesn't make him as good as your implying. He's an above average SS, and 2nd baseman. Thats it. Santiago has had many chances to win a starting roll, but hasn't with more than 1 team. I believe Leland is getting the best from him, because he's using him as a utility guy, giving him spot time. The problem the tigers are having isn't just one thing. Its not just closing games, scoring runs, starting pitching, Sheffield, or Renteria. They are having all those problems at different times. I seem to remember that in the beginning of the season they were struggling offensively, and Verlander was average at best. Then Verlander picked it up, and Galaraga was smooth, and Todd was closing well and the Offence was getting shut out and not scoring much. Then the offence started to perk up and sheff went down and the Bonderman was gone and the offence (Carbarra, Rent, Sheff) were not living up to expectations. Then Verlander started to win and pitch well, but Kenny and Robertson couldn't put it together, and the offence was only slightly better. Then lately the Tiger's bats picked up and the closing was horrible.

Not to mention the Twins are Hot as Hell and no one saw that comming.

Renteria, shef and jones are not the problem. The whole team at times hasn't clicked and has done poorly from management down. We're only 8 games out, there is still a chance to "click" but it isn't too likely.

Spencesc11
08-10-2008, 01:39 PM
The offensive talent is their but to win a World Series you need starting pitching. You pony up for either Sheets or Sabathia. This moves everyone in your rotation down and makes you that much better. Or you sign KRod. Closer has been an issue for years. Jones has been serviceable but you want someone at the backend that will not just shut the door but slam it shut. Lineup is fine Granderson, Polanco, Guillen, Ordonez, Cabrera, Renteria, Thames, Sheffield, Inge. But I believe dumping Sheffield and moving Thames to full time DH would be a positive move. Also put Raburn as the starting LF as this kid is way to talented to be spending his career as a utility player. But if Illitch wants to get the most out of this investment you bring in Sheets and KRod and solve your two biggest problems. Ace and Closer

Bondomania
08-10-2008, 02:03 PM
look.. we don't need .300 hitters at every position, just not necessary.. we need some defense at certain positions, and santiago is that guy. If he hits .240 or .250 so what.. you know he is going to move runners over, and work counts.. he is that pesty batter that we lack, but other teams have them and they always seem to hurt us..

Worst case scenario is we make a trade during the season for a SS at some point.. as far as one of the farm guys.. none of them are doing that well, Worth is done most likely for the season, he has a cyst in his shoulder.. but he is a guy when healthy that could hit .260 to .290'ish with a bit of power, mostly gap stuff.. Iorg was hurt too, but he is only hitting .258 prior to getting hurt, but with more power. Hollimon has really struggled as of late in AAA and is now batting around .220'ish, with some power.. Santiago seems to be the best option right now..

DetTigers
08-10-2008, 02:21 PM
Renteria is a career .300 hitter. I perdict by the end of the year he'll be right around .300.

You are kidding me right? .300 by the end of the year....right haha

scottie
08-10-2008, 08:03 PM
You are kidding me right? .300 by the end of the year....right haha

For the last 7 games hes hitting .429. Don't let your emotions get the best of you, and the statment was: I perdict by the end of the year he'll be right around .300.

Bondomania
08-11-2008, 12:31 AM
i PREDICT that Renteria will be hitting .260.. and he will still continue to struggle with runners on base.

DetTigers
08-11-2008, 12:35 AM
:clap:

MSK55
08-11-2008, 09:42 AM
Even "around" .300 for Renteria is asking a lot. He's doing a lot better now, but...this late in the season, it's hard to dig yourself out of .260.

stanpapi
08-11-2008, 12:45 PM
I guess you could look at it like that, but I believe since the guy has 3 errors is 18 games @ short stop this year it most certianly doesn't make him as good as your implying. He's an above average SS, and 2nd baseman. Thats it. Santiago has had many chances to win a starting roll, but hasn't with more than 1 team. I believe Leland is getting the best from him, because he's using him as a utility guy, giving him spot time. The problem the tigers are having isn't just one thing. Its not just closing games, scoring runs, starting pitching, Sheffield, or Renteria. They are having all those problems at different times. I seem to remember that in the beginning of the season they were struggling offensively, and Verlander was average at best. Then Verlander picked it up, and Galaraga was smooth, and Todd was closing well and the Offence was getting shut out and not scoring much. Then the offence started to perk up and sheff went down and the Bonderman was gone and the offence (Carbarra, Rent, Sheff) were not living up to expectations. Then Verlander started to win and pitch well, but Kenny and Robertson couldn't put it together, and the offence was only slightly better. Then lately the Tiger's bats picked up and the closing was horrible.

Not to mention the Twins are Hot as Hell and no one saw that comming.

Renteria, shef and jones are not the problem. The whole team at times hasn't clicked and has done poorly from management down. We're only 8 games out, there is still a chance to "click" but it isn't too likely.

Dude, Santiago fields the SS as good or better than anyone I know of in the American league. He is not simply an above average fielding SS. He is superb. That is not an opinion, either. It is fact. His D is beyond reproach. I mean, go ahead a tee off on his career batting average. We can talk about that. But his DD at SS is about as pure as it gets.

theoldgoalie
08-11-2008, 02:41 PM
Knock it off guys! We have enough talent within our system. if we keep signing these retreads, with no history or passion of the "old english D" then we deserve what we get! We don't need to go outside of the system for too much talent (except for catcher now that we got rid of Pudge....BOOO!). next year, our lineup could very easily look like this and be very, very good....

Granderson CF
Polanco 2B
Guillen DH
Ordonez RF
Cabrera 1B
Joyce LF
Inge 3B
Santiago SS
TBD C

Rotation
Verlander
Bonderman
Galarraga
Willis/Miner?
Porcello/Below/Nickerson/Lambert/Bonine?

Closer
Rodney
Zumaya
Farnsworth
Neal

We have plenty of what we need within our system. Furcal would be such a crap shoot it's pathetic. Lowe would be a good pick up, but do we really need to spend that money for a guy that is only going to play another season or two? We spent over $130 million this year and what did we achieve? NADA! We need guys who have a history with us, who will play the game the way we expect the game to be played. I don't want the Tigers to be the Yankees of baseball, I want the Tigers to be the Redwings of baseball! We are a blue collar, knock 'em down, drag 'em out kind of town and we expect our athletes to be the same.

All we need this off season is a new catcher. Trade off Sheffield, Robertson and Renteria and Thames to see what kind of experienced closer(s) we can get.

Next, try and pull off a deal to obtain someone like Saltalamacchia, Barajas, Olivio, Navarro, etc... They can handle primary catching duties and Inge can back them up giving Guillen some reps at 3b. We could learn a thing or two from the Twins. They groom their talent and fill in very few gaps when needed. The moves they make pay off, just look at the Pierzinski trade a few years back (they obtained Nathan, Bonser and Liriano)! They also obtained Santana via the rule 5 draft! Santana didn't cost them a dime to obtain!

Have faith in the guys who already wear the "D". They can play the game,:mad: we don't need a bunch more hired guns!

scottie
08-11-2008, 02:55 PM
Dude, Santiago fields the SS as good or better than anyone I know of in the American league. He is not simply an above average fielding SS. He is superb. That is not an opinion, either. It is fact. His D is beyond reproach. I mean, go ahead a tee off on his career batting average. We can talk about that. But his DD at SS is about as pure as it gets.

Here are the facts, he's had 3 errors at shorstop in 18 games there this season. How is that superb, how is that beyond reproach, and how is that "as pure as it gets" Are you disputing his 3 errors in 18 games at shortstop. Do you think 3 errors in 18 games at SS is Pure. Check the stats yourself, I got mine from ESPN. I understand you like the guy, but what your stating is an opinion. 3 out of 18 is not what you contend. Sorry to break it to you but i disagree with your statements. By the way there is another player in MLB past that didn't have the best bat, but WAS Superb and had D beyond reproach. His name was Omar Viscal. Santiago is no where close to this defensive star.

scottie
08-11-2008, 02:57 PM
Knock it off guys! We have enough talent within our system. if we keep signing these retreads, with no history or passion of the "old english D" then we deserve what we get! We don't need to go outside of the system for too much talent (except for catcher now that we got rid of Pudge....BOOO!). next year, our lineup could very easily look like this and be very, very good....

Granderson CF
Polanco 2B
Guillen DH
Ordonez RF
Cabrera 1B
Joyce LF
Inge 3B
Santiago SS
TBD C

Rotation
Verlander
Bonderman
Galarraga
Willis/Miner?
Porcello/Below/Nickerson/Lambert/Bonine?

Closer
Rodney
Zumaya
Farnsworth
Neal

We have plenty of what we need within our system. Furcal would be such a crap shoot it's pathetic. Lowe would be a good pick up, but do we really need to spend that money for a guy that is only going to play another season or two? We spent over $130 million this year and what did we achieve? NADA! We need guys who have a history with us, who will play the game the way we expect the game to be played. I don't want the Tigers to be the Yankees of baseball, I want the Tigers to be the Redwings of baseball! We are a blue collar, knock 'em down, drag 'em out kind of town and we expect our athletes to be the same.

All we need this off season is a new catcher. Trade off Sheffield, Robertson and Renteria and Thames to see what kind of experienced closer(s) we can get.

Next, try and pull off a deal to obtain someone like Saltalamacchia, Barajas, Olivio, Navarro, etc... They can handle primary catching duties and Inge can back them up giving Guillen some reps at 3b. We could learn a thing or two from the Twins. They groom their talent and fill in very few gaps when needed. The moves they make pay off, just look at the Pierzinski trade a few years back (they obtained Nathan, Bonser and Liriano)! They also obtained Santana via the rule 5 draft! Santana didn't cost them a dime to obtain!

Have faith in the guys who already wear the "D". They can play the game,:mad: we don't need a bunch more hired guns!


Some could make a strong argument that the Redwings are the yankees of the NHL.

chetlemon
08-11-2008, 03:33 PM
Just wanted to get back to the completely stupid argument that Santiago doesn't have pure D. Comparing him to possibly the best fielding SS ever isn't going to say much for an argument. We all agree he's not that good. Tell me who else is. Ozzie Smith career .978. Omar Visquel career .984. Trammell career .977. Jeter career .975. Orlando Cabrera career .979. Jhonny Peralta career .979. Harris career .974. Santiago career .974. I would say that is pretty solid amongst that company. Can't just go with 18 games especially when everyone else I have listed above is pretty much a starter. That FP is damn good for a career backup so enough about him not being an excellent fielder. As for the bat.........

scottie
08-11-2008, 03:44 PM
Just wanted to get back to the completely stupid argument that Santiago doesn't have pure D. Comparing him to possibly the best fielding SS ever isn't going to say much for an argument. We all agree he's not that good. Tell me who else is. Ozzie Smith career .978. Omar Visquel career .984. Trammell career .977. Jeter career .975. Orlando Cabrera career .979. Jhonny Peralta career .979. Harris career .974. Santiago career .974. I would say that is pretty solid amongst that company. Can't just go with 18 games especially when everyone else I have listed above is pretty much a starter. That FP is damn good for a career backup so enough about him not being an excellent fielder. As for the bat.........

Hey the guy said he is pure and all that other stuff isn't true. for the record Santiago can not hold a candle to the people you just mentioned him with. WTF. I can give everyone some skewed stats to. Santiago has been given many chances to win the starting spot and yes his d, is above average, but if it was that good he would have started somewhere, or he would have huge value. But since he hasn't and doesn't, I rest my case.

stanpapi
08-11-2008, 03:45 PM
...he's htting .300-plus this year, so let's just see if he can keep it above dollars and cents. Why don't we just take this time and let him play for gods sakes? We've got nothing, nothing whatsoever to lose.

chetlemon
08-11-2008, 04:04 PM
Why can't he start the rest of the season. I didn't say he was the next coming of Jesus man. I just think there is no argument to his fielding. I guess I interpretted "pure" as in the fielding sence which he is. And how are the stats misconstrued to any level? His fielding is pretty damn good and he can finish out the year. HE CAN'T HIT FOR A YEAR. I didn't disagree with that. But his fielding is on par with many of the best. The truth is that he IS hitting this year and right NOW....it can't hurt to start him. Nobody said he was a future all star.

chetlemon
08-11-2008, 04:05 PM
So your saying that none of them above had 3 errors in 18 games in their career?

Epic89
08-15-2008, 04:56 PM
Knock it off guys! We have enough talent within our system. if we keep signing these retreads, with no history or passion of the "old english D" then we deserve what we get! We don't need to go outside of the system for too much talent (except for catcher now that we got rid of Pudge....BOOO!). next year, our lineup could very easily look like this and be very, very good....

Granderson CF
Polanco 2B
Guillen DH
Ordonez RF
Cabrera 1B
Joyce LF
Inge 3B
Santiago SS
TBD C

Rotation
Verlander
Bonderman
Galarraga
Willis/Miner?
Porcello/Below/Nickerson/Lambert/Bonine?

Closer
Rodney
Zumaya
Farnsworth
Neal

We have plenty of what we need within our system. Furcal would be such a crap shoot it's pathetic. Lowe would be a good pick up, but do we really need to spend that money for a guy that is only going to play another season or two? We spent over $130 million this year and what did we achieve? NADA! We need guys who have a history with us, who will play the game the way we expect the game to be played. I don't want the Tigers to be the Yankees of baseball, I want the Tigers to be the Redwings of baseball! We are a blue collar, knock 'em down, drag 'em out kind of town and we expect our athletes to be the same.

All we need this off season is a new catcher. Trade off Sheffield, Robertson and Renteria and Thames to see what kind of experienced closer(s) we can get.

Next, try and pull off a deal to obtain someone like Saltalamacchia, Barajas, Olivio, Navarro, etc... They can handle primary catching duties and Inge can back them up giving Guillen some reps at 3b. We could learn a thing or two from the Twins. They groom their talent and fill in very few gaps when needed. The moves they make pay off, just look at the Pierzinski trade a few years back (they obtained Nathan, Bonser and Liriano)! They also obtained Santana via the rule 5 draft! Santana didn't cost them a dime to obtain!

Have faith in the guys who already wear the "D". They can play the game,:mad: we don't need a bunch more hired guns!


:no:

After the **** they've pulled this year, no thank you.

Any way, I'm starting to think O-Cab or (as much as I hate to say it 'cause I still hate the pygmy ba**ard for what he did to us two years ago) David Eckstein is the answer at SS. Or trade for a guy like Omar Vizquel to platoon with Santiago.

Verlander is an ace. End of story. No need to spend on CC or Sheets. Bondo, Galarraga, and hopefully D-Train should contribute next year. Maybe Garcia if he shows he's still got it. Miner looks like he could be a great replacement starter. Robertson needs to be traded for ANYTHING. His presence simply isn't good for the team; he's not a good big league ball player.

Derek Lowe is too good a fit to not happen. Local guy, great in the postseason, a veteran but still very effective. Everything we need; he'd be a great replacement for Kenny.

If they want to spend, they can get K-Rod. I don't see too many other teams chasing him. If not, Brian Fuentes is fine by me. Some middle relief guys are needed to; they need to ditch the bad presence guys there as well (Fossum, Farnsworthless, etc.)

That's a lot of fixing needed, but they can all be solved if Illitch is willing to spend and they spend it on the right things this time (PITCHING!). I'll never forgive them if they don't make a run at it NEXT YEAR and trade guys like Ordonez and Polanco. It's enough that Pudge and Kenny never got to win a world series here; in my opinion, what's the point if Maggs, Polly, and Guillen don't?

Bondomania
08-16-2008, 12:19 PM
Verlander is an ace. End of story.

oh really?? what has Verlander shown you this year to make you think that he is a legit ace? He can't control his pitch count. He fails to show up in big games when we need him. He has an ERA approaching 5. He has horrid control. He isn't a stopper in the rotation, hell i think Miner and Galarraga have prooven to be more of a stopper than Verlander. Verlander cannot save the BP when we need him to the most. His velocity is WAY down. (yeah yeah yeah, he hits 97 early in the game, but most of the game he is working 91 to 93, and yeah that is still fast, but that isn't good when you think about where he was last year. I mean in the final inning in his no hitter he hit 101) So no, i don't think Verlander is the ace.. most of his success so far in his young career has come as the number 3 pitcher. It wouldn't hurt to make an effort at signing a sheets or sabathia, then you have a two guys that can really win you a game when needed..

as far as Garcia, i don't see how anyone can rely on this guy. He has been out of the game for a year, his velocity was in the mid-80's when he did his workout for teams.. oh yea, and before they shut him down he was a pitcher in the NL with an ERA over 5... no thank you..

Miner, IMO has earned himself a shot at a legit stay in the 5th spot in the rotation. He has pitched phenominal, and i think he has an ERA around 2 or something, since being put into the rotation. He has the pitches to be a successful big league pitcher, i think he throws 4 (fastball,slider,changeup,knuckle-curve). All of the pitches he throws are effective.. in my mind the rotation should look like this...

FA (sheets,burnett,sabathia)
Verlander
Bonderman
Galarraga
Miner

Or you could turn around and trade a guy like Miner or something for BP help. Then you can put Willis into the rotation. IMO we have to many 5th starter types, so that's where signing an ace caliber player would help. That would also buy Porcello enough time that he wouldn't have to come up until 2010 or later.. really allow him to develop

cwilson21
08-16-2008, 02:40 PM
oh really?? what has Verlander shown you this year to make you think that he is a legit ace? He can't control his pitch count. He fails to show up in big games when we need him. He has an ERA approaching 5. He has horrid control. He isn't a stopper in the rotation, hell i think Miner and Galarraga have prooven to be more of a stopper than Verlander. Verlander cannot save the BP when we need him to the most. His velocity is WAY down. (yeah yeah yeah, he hits 97 early in the game, but most of the game he is working 91 to 93, and yeah that is still fast, but that isn't good when you think about where he was last year. I mean in the final inning in his no hitter he hit 101) So no, i don't think Verlander is the ace.. most of his success so far in his young career has come as the number 3 pitcher. It wouldn't hurt to make an effort at signing a sheets or sabathia, then you have a two guys that can really win you a game when needed..

as far as Garcia, i don't see how anyone can rely on this guy. He has been out of the game for a year, his velocity was in the mid-80's when he did his workout for teams.. oh yea, and before they shut him down he was a pitcher in the NL with an ERA over 5... no thank you..

Miner, IMO has earned himself a shot at a legit stay in the 5th spot in the rotation. He has pitched phenominal, and i think he has an ERA around 2 or something, since being put into the rotation. He has the pitches to be a successful big league pitcher, i think he throws 4 (fastball,slider,changeup,knuckle-curve). All of the pitches he throws are effective.. in my mind the rotation should look like this...

FA (sheets,burnett,sabathia)
Verlander
Bonderman
Galarraga
Miner

Or you could turn around and trade a guy like Miner or something for BP help. Then you can put Willis into the rotation. IMO we have to many 5th starter types, so that's where signing an ace caliber player would help. That would also buy Porcello enough time that he wouldn't have to come up until 2010 or later.. really allow him to develop

You're ragging on Verlander yet you wouldn't mind seeing Willis in the rotation? Wow.

Bondomania
08-17-2008, 12:52 AM
I am saying if we were to trade miner.. read more carefully.. i am not saying that we have to plug Willis into the rotation. And yes i am ragging on Verlander.. perhaps if you watched all of his starts you would see why i am.. the guy has flat out sucked this year. Right now i would consider him a number 3 starter at best. Yeah he had a good start tonight, but that was against a ****** baltimore team. He has yet to show up against a good team. Also perhaps if you read properly you would see that i am replacing one 5th starter, who has greater value and could actually get us something of value, for another 5th starter who is already signed to a contract of which we cannot trade.. perhaps you should look more in depth before you criticize what i say..

jjrsle
08-17-2008, 03:28 PM
In my opinion, our offense is fine. We are stuck with sheff for another year as he cleared waivers with zero bite. Plus he maybe injury free next season. Honestly, I don't think we need to do much. I do not see Garcia panning out but who knows. The only piece I think we need to add is a legitimate #1 pitcher. I am not big on spending big $ for a closer, especially K-Rod..his delivery is an injury waiting to happen. Plus, Zumaya, Dolsi, or Rodney will be injury free and grow into the closer we need

CF Granderson
2B Polanco
RF Ordonez
1B Cabrara
3B Guillen
DH Sheffield
LF Thames/ Joyce
C Inge
SS Santiago

BENCH

UTIL Rayburn
1B/3B/DH Hessman
2B/SS Holliman
1B/ OF Lirsh
C Free Agent? or rookie from AAA
OF Clevlan


R/LSP Burnett/ Sheets/ or Sabathia
RSP Verlander
RSP Galarraga
LSP Willis
RSP Bonderman

MLP Robertson
MRP Minor
RRP Dolsi
LRP Seay
Setup Rodney
Closer Zumaya

Our team is not bad we just need a new beginning w/o pitching injuries.

xander
08-17-2008, 07:38 PM
The Tigers need pitching. Who do you think they would trade to the Giants for someone like Jonathen Sanchez or maybe even Matt Cain.