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ZHawk1123
08-01-2008, 02:27 PM
What does getting rid of Manny mean for our offseason?

Do you see the Sox trying to sign a CC or a Sheets or what?

I know it may be a little early but... It's something to think about...

Tragedy
08-01-2008, 02:30 PM
Not really sure.

I think with all the money they'll have, they'll look to just upgrade the BP/bench. There is a chance they'll take a look at Sabathia, but ultimately I think he ends up somewhere else (Chicago, NY).

Our entire lineup will be back next year. The only question mark is Varitek.

Shaiza
08-01-2008, 02:38 PM
How about Vlad? Just a possibility...

Run Gardner Run
08-01-2008, 02:43 PM
Vlad has an option, unless you trade for him. I could see you getting Burnett or Sheets though to solidify an already good rotation

Tragedy
08-01-2008, 02:45 PM
Vlad has an option, unless you trade for him. I could see you getting Burnett or Sheets though to solidify an already good rotation
I think the Red Sox would do one of three things with the rotation.

1) Let it stay the way it is. Beckett, Matsuzaka, Lester, are locks, and then the final two spots can go to the combo of Buchholz, Wakefield, and Masterson.

2) They sign a big name FA. Sabathia seems like the man most would want with the money we have.

3) Bring in another Bartolo Colon type of pitcher.

Run Gardner Run
08-01-2008, 02:47 PM
I think Masterson should stay as the Setup man for you guys.

ZHawk1123
08-01-2008, 02:49 PM
For some reason I see them going after C.C giving us the most dominant rotation in baseball...

Beckett
CC
Dice
Lester
Wake/Buchholz

Tragedy
08-01-2008, 02:49 PM
I think Masterson should stay as the Setup man for you guys.
No, I'd much rather see him starting games. I think the Red Sox project him there long term.

If we want a good young arm to SU next year, I'm all for Daniel Bard.

RSF1977
08-01-2008, 03:00 PM
Just a thought not saying it will happen.
But if the Sox don't make a splash with CC
Then I gotta say Don't fall too in love with Lowrie.
I don't know who the sox would Target but You gotta think with the extra Manny money they would eat Lugo's contract and try to pry an allstar caliber SS from somebody.
Young perhaps? Doubtful though seeing as it seems he is the cornerstone of the club.
Hanley? Now I am just dreaming. His D leaves much to be desired though.
I don't know any thoughts guys?

papipapsmanny
08-01-2008, 03:06 PM
i just feel liek the redsox are going to go after sheets

yaowowrocket11
08-01-2008, 03:06 PM
I think they will definitely go after C.C. or Sheets, whatever one they want. After seeing Buchholz get smashed, Wakefield getting old, and Masterson being effective in the pen, I think they will go after one of those aces. The only definites are Beckett, Dice-K, and Lester. Add Sabathia or Sheets, and you basically have yourself 2 aces, one almost ace, and a great #2. Then, let Buchholz, Wake, and Masterson battle it out.

RSF1977
08-01-2008, 03:12 PM
I kniow we've had this discussion for a couple of years now but Wake is a def in the rotation as well. He may be "getting old" But He is prob one of the best conditioned pitchers on the team and as a Knuckleballer he is getting better with age. He has been one of the most consistant Pitchers the Sox have had the past few years so Beckett/Lester/Dice/Wake and ?

CC or sheets would look really good in there. Clay can def use some more time in AAA but for how much longer? Tough decision as Masterson has proved Completely Capable as well. Good prob to have I guess but it makes for some messy decisions. Can't have enough pitching I guess.

RSF1977
08-01-2008, 03:14 PM
Oh yeah and count on Wake for 2 more years thats just my guess.
I do agree however that once he leaves it will make ALL the difference in the world when it comes to picking up some quality catching. With Wake pitching the Sox are kinda handcuffed for the time being.

lil'papi
08-01-2008, 03:53 PM
They went after CC once, the second time is the charm. They will also go after Tex too. I just feel they moved Manny to make a move of that nature.
We have a boatload of coin.
15 mil under payroll this year, 13.5 left over between Mannys deal and Bays, Schillings 8mil. We have plenty....we also have guys that we could move. Look for a huge splash this winter IF we falter this year. If we don't ....lesser deals.

Crucis
08-01-2008, 04:02 PM
One thing I haven't seen mentioned above is (assuming that he fits in well in the Boston environment) getting Jason Bay signed to an extended contract.

marques724
08-01-2008, 04:10 PM
I think the sox will go after CC but I think the yanks get him and the sox get Sheets. I see the sox bringing in some help for the bullpen as well.

Sportfan
08-01-2008, 04:20 PM
i think we get texeria. we'll trade bay, anderson, tejada, bucholz for a SS with a lot of pontential but not ready to come to the majors until 2010, or we could trade for hanley. i think we'll dump lugo's salary to a team like the royals or mainers. we could have by far the best line-up in baseball, if we got hanley.

LINEUP: 2nd Lineup
hanley ss ellsbury cf
pedroia 2b pedroia 2b
papi dh hanley ss
tex 1b papi dh
youk lf tex 1b
drew rf drew rf
lowell 3b youk lf
ellsbury cf lowell 3b
tek c

2nd Lineup
ellsbury cf
pedroia 2b
hanley ss
papi dh
tex 1b
drew rf
youk lf
lowell 3b
tek c


tek c

BostonFan 53
08-01-2008, 04:26 PM
Were not getting Hanley.

TheKid
08-01-2008, 04:30 PM
i think we get texeria. we'll trade bay, anderson, tejada, bucholz for a SS with a lot of pontential but not ready to come to the majors until 2010, or we could trade for hanley. i think we'll dump lugo's salary to a team like the royals or mainers. we could have by far the best line-up in baseball, if we got hanley.


There is no way they trade Bay, Lars, Tejada AND Buc. But if they did, you'd be looking at WAY more then just a SS spec for 2010.

Also, i don't forsee them putting Youk in LF for an entire season.

Sportfan
08-01-2008, 04:32 PM
Were not getting Hanley.

we have the 2nd best farm system in baseball. How can we not trade for him? it's not like it's the rays or yankees. if they could have dealt cabrera last year, i don't understand how they cant deal for hanley. and the marlins :love: prospects.

TDbank24
08-01-2008, 04:33 PM
I hope we atleast try to get CC. Our rotation would pretty much launch us into the playoffs. I look for us to bolster our pen and bench as well

Sportfan
08-01-2008, 04:35 PM
There is no way they trade Bay, Lars, Tejada AND Buc. But if they did, you'd be looking at WAY more then just a SS spec for 2010.

Also, i don't forsee them putting Youk in LF for an entire season.

when i mean a ss prospect, i mean like the next hanley or a guy that has a huge ceiling the way the marlins find gems.

Sportfan
08-01-2008, 04:38 PM
i cant beleive know one mentioned this, but has any one remembered that tek is in the last year of his contract. we NEED a cather cause there is no one in our farm system that has a good future ahead of them. and after what happend to posada, theo at best would sign tek to a 1-2 year deal. we need a catcher.

bosox4life54
08-01-2008, 04:41 PM
They will not put Youk in LF because they have an all-star there in Bay. i believe the only moves the sox make are getting a good young catcher for after Tek and then after two years Tek could be our backup playing once every 5 days. I say we trade Lowrie and Bucholz with prospects for a stud SS and we go after either CC or Sheets and if Bay does good here lock him up long term. Then our line-up would be.

2b-Pedroia
SS-whoever we trade for
DH-Papi
LF-Bay
1b-Youk
RF-Drew
3B-Lowell
C-Varitek/Stud
CF-Ellsbury

We would still have a better bench also with Coco, Casey, and a better MI than Cora.

Our rotation would be like this.

1. Beckett
2. CC/Sheets
3. Lester
4. Dice-K
5. Wakefield

Bullpen
CL-Paps
SU-Okajima
SU-Masterson
MR-Delcarmen
MR-Bard
MR-Bowden?
MR-Lopez

I doubt the Sox would keep all three studs of Bard, Bowden, and Masterson in the pen but that would be sick if they did. Also if schilling SOMEHOW returns I'd see us putting him in the bullpen also. Anyway the Roster looks somewhat like this next year everything seems possible except having all 3 stud spects and a catcher not named Cash on the bench.

RSF1977
08-01-2008, 04:42 PM
They went after CC once, the second time is the charm. They will also go after Tex too. I just feel they moved Manny to make a move of that nature.
We have a boatload of coin.
15 mil under payroll this year, 13.5 left over between Mannys deal and Bays, Schillings 8mil. We have plenty....we also have guys that we could move. Look for a huge splash this winter IF we falter this year. If we don't ....lesser deals.

I agree that if the team gels with Bay :pray:
That the Sox will make some lesser moves.
Shore up the pen and add another starter.
I just don't see a Tex Deal happening. For some reason I just Don't see it.
It will be interesting nonetheless.
I don't know if they would extend Bay either cause they could go after Holliday after next year I think.
CC makes the most sense to me right now.:)

RSF1977
08-01-2008, 04:45 PM
i cant beleive know one mentioned this, but has any one remembered that tek is in the last year of his contract. we NEED a cather cause there is no one in our farm system that has a good future ahead of them. and after what happend to posada, theo at best would sign tek to a 1-2 year deal. we need a catcher.

Tek gets signed to a two year 16/18 mil deal and HOPEFULLY
the sox trade for the catcher of the future and Tek can groom him to take over. This is a HUGE need IMO. Maybe the sox can pull a mega deal with texas for Young and Teagarden. I don't care if they trade Bucchs for a chance to do that.

TheKid
08-01-2008, 04:46 PM
when i mean a ss prospect, i mean like the next hanley or a guy that has a huge ceiling the way the marlins find gems.

even still, prospects are still prospects. you don't trade an all-star OF and 3 of our best prospects for one prospect, no matter how good you think he might be. , a SS prospect can not be the only thing you get in return for those 4 players. Now if you're talking a tejada/buc for SS spec plus either a pitcher (prolly MLB level with a good track record in the PEN as a Setup man...) then you think about it.

bleedsREDforevr
08-01-2008, 04:51 PM
we have the 2nd best farm system in baseball. How can we not trade for him? it's not like it's the rays or yankees. if they could have dealt cabrera last year, i don't understand how they cant deal for hanley. and the marlins :love: prospects.

Tell me something, the Marlins may continue to be contenders for the next few years. They own the rights to Hanley for the next 3-4 years and he is already an impact player and the centerpiece for there whole franchise. Maybe there was something behind the scenes they did not like about Cabrera(possibly out of shape) and we all see the breakdown from Willis. They are not going to deal Hanley, and the Sox are not going to deal Buchholz.

Ewagner
08-01-2008, 04:51 PM
One thing we are over looking. we are going to need some of this money for paps and pedroia. i would be amazed to see them go after CC or sheets. sheets is injury prone and CC reminds me of another colon. CC will want years and theo will not give him that. CC is going to the yankees because they always offer those extra years. lugo is all but gone after this year. look for them to get a catcher this off season if they make a trade. i still believe teagarden is on our future.

the rotation next year:

Beckett
Lester
Dice-K
Wakefield
Buchholz

Bullpen:
Cl: Paps
Su: Masterson
SU: Okajima
a bunch of guys from free agency

Lineup

CF Ellsbury
2B Pedroia
RF Drew
DH Ortiz
LF Bay
3B Lowell
1B Youk
SS Lowrie
C Platoon

TheKid
08-01-2008, 04:54 PM
I think what they should do with Tek is sign him to a 6 year deal.

Now before you jump down my throat, let me explain.

Sign tek to a 3 year player contract and a 3 year coaching contract. Use him as the everyday catcher for next season, then in season 2 have him split time with the "catcher of the future" (be that Kottaras or teagarden or whoever we can get...Marson? :)). Then the last year of the playing career have him as the backup, kind of transitioning into the coaches role while providing insurance and days off for young catcher. Then as seasons 4-6 come into play, have him as the bench coach and bring in new backup catcher... You could also put in options for years 4-6 that if the team picksup, would put him back as a player (insurance if something doesn't work out).



IDK if something like this would be legal or not, but i feel Theo might try something "out of the box" ya know?

BostonFan 53
08-01-2008, 04:55 PM
1) sign Tek- 2 years 12 million
2) extend Bay- 5 years 60 million
3) Sign Oliver Perez 5 years 70 million
4) Sign Brian Fuentes 4 years 30 million
5) Pick up Wakes Option

C- Tek
1B- Youk
2B- Pedroia
SS- Lowrie
3B- Lowell
LF- Bay
CF- Ellsbury
RF- Bay
DH- Ortiz

Carter
Lugo
Cora
Crisp



Beckett
Dice-K
Lester
Buchholz
Perez

Masterson
Bowden
Paps
MDC
Okajima
Fuentes
Aardsma
Wake

ThreeIfBaerga
08-01-2008, 04:59 PM
Resign Tek and Casey, give Oki another two year deal, just so that they don't have to deal with arbitration.

Sign Rafael Soriano and one of Luis Ayala or Damaso Marte.

Make a strong push at CC, if only to bump the price for the Yankees, although I think the Dodgers have a great shot at signing him. If CC doesn't sign, go after a Bartolo Colon-style reclamation project, the more competent starters the better.

With a weak SS market, offer to pay 3-4 of the 9 mil a year owed to Lugo and package him with a Chris Carter-type to attempt to con some team into taking him, sign someone like Uribe to compete with Lowrie for the SS job.

Begin discussions with Beckett, Papelbon and Youk for extensions. 4 years for Beckett, 3 for Papelbon and Youk.

TheKid
08-01-2008, 05:01 PM
1) sign Tek- 2 years 12 million
2) extend Bay- 5 years 60 million
3) Sign Oliver Perez 5 years 70 million
4) Sign Brian Fuentes 4 years 30 million
5) Pick up Wakes Option

C- Tek
1B- Youk
2B- Pedroia
SS- Lowrie
3B- Lowell
LF- Bay
CF- Ellsbury
RF- Bay
DH- Ortiz

Carter
Lugo
Cora
Crisp



Beckett
Dice-K
Lester
Buchholz
Masterson
Bowden
Paps
MDC
Okajima
Fuentes
Aardsma
Wake


My god i'd gag if they gave perez 5yr/70MM.

also, i find if funny that you say sign perez, then you don't have him on the team lol... $70MM AAA pitcher :eyebrow:

bleedsREDforevr
08-01-2008, 05:05 PM
1) sign Tek- 2 years 12 million
2) extend Bay- 5 years 60 million
3) Sign Oliver Perez 5 years 70 million
4) Sign Brian Fuentes 4 years 30 million
5) Pick up Wakes Option

Tek is gonna require more than 6 million a year. 5 years and 60 mil extension for bay would be really nice. Perez is not a 70 million 5 year pitcher, way, way overpriced and who wants an 30 million dollar set-up man. Keep Wake until he wants to retire and the tools are in place for the SP. Bring back Schill for 1 more season. We owe it to him for putting 86 years of misery away.

BostonFan 53
08-01-2008, 05:06 PM
My god i'd gag if they gave perez 5yr/70MM.

also, i find if funny that you say sign perez, then you don't have him on the team lol... $70MM AAA pitcher :eyebrow:

Haha. Forgot.

I've always been a big Perez fan. He's inconsistent, but when he pitches at his best he is a very good pitcher. Although 70 mil is quite a lot That'll probably be the asking price for him.

SoxRTattedOnMe
08-01-2008, 05:07 PM
I know this is the offseason topic but heres a question.... could we of had kemp for manny straight up??? I know they were discussing it... if we did why couldn't we of done that and just put in two mora names and traded for Bay as well. Yep give them ellsbury cause he's an auto out and dont say hes young n what not cause kemp is like 23...As u see I'm still bumed about the trade!

BostonFan 53
08-01-2008, 05:08 PM
Tek is gonna require more than 6 million a year. 5 years and 60 mil extension for bay would be really nice. Perez is not a 70 million 5 year pitcher, way, way overpriced and who wants an 30 million dollar set-up man. Keep Wake until he wants to retire and the tools are in place for the SP. Bring back Schill for 1 more season. We owe it to him for putting 86 years of misery away.

Schill is done.

bleedsREDforevr
08-01-2008, 05:15 PM
I know this is the offseason topic but heres a question.... could we of had kemp for manny straight up??? I know they were discussing it... if we did why couldn't we of done that and just put in two mora names and traded for Bay as well. Yep give them ellsbury cause he's an auto out and dont say hes young n what not cause kemp is like 23...As u see I'm still bumed about the trade!

Yeah...Its bittersweet for me. I believe they got Bay so they do not try and miss a beat. Kemp is raw talent, but still is inexperienced and can get fooled alot at the plate. Pittsburgh wouldn't have made the deal for just 2 prospects. They really made out on the deal, trading Bay for 4 prospects. Let the Bay era begin, Hopefully!!

SoxRTattedOnMe
08-01-2008, 05:17 PM
Yeah...Its bittersweet for me. I believe they got Bay so they do not try and miss a beat. Kemp is raw talent, but still is inexperienced and can get fooled alot at the plate. Pittsburgh wouldn't have made the deal for just 2 prospects. They really made out on the deal, trading Bay for 4 prospects. Let the Bay era begin, Hopefully!!

I know but kemp ceiling is incredibly high..... imagine putting him in this lineup to learn n wat not... I meant they gave up moss,hansen... and throw in another prospect or 2 like ellsbury

PapelbonLester
08-01-2008, 05:21 PM
Crazyness

i see us signing CC, and maybe fuentes. then i see us dealing crisp and/or lugo. then hopefully extend bays contract. sign a good 4th outfielder and call it a winter. and next year expect us to draft more catchers and try to bring 1 up through the system. my guess is that kottaras catches wake next year. then slowly learns the pitchers and takes over 2 years from now

TheKid
08-01-2008, 05:33 PM
i hope kottaras is able to pan out cuz i like him alot. He's got some pop in his bat (19 HRs in paw) but his other numbers need to come up (234/.342/.453).

He also has experience catching Sparks and Zink (knuckleballers) so i could see him as the backup in Bos next year catching wake.

ThreeIfBaerga
08-01-2008, 05:46 PM
Aside from his time in the Boston organization Kottaras has been a .270+ hitter for his entire pro career. If he can hit his normal average with the vitals he's got he'd be a damn good catcher. ~.110 ISOp and a .220 ISOslug are impressive, especially for a catcher.

lil'papi
08-02-2008, 08:34 AM
Resign Tek and Casey, give Oki another two year deal, just so that they don't have to deal with arbitration.

Sign Rafael Soriano and one of Luis Ayala or Damaso Marte.

Make a strong push at CC, if only to bump the price for the Yankees, although I think the Dodgers have a great shot at signing him. If CC doesn't sign, go after a Bartolo Colon-style reclamation project, the more competent starters the better.

With a weak SS market, offer to pay 3-4 of the 9 mil a year owed to Lugo and package him with a Chris Carter-type to attempt to con some team into taking him, sign someone like Uribe to compete with Lowrie for the SS job.

Begin discussions with Beckett, Papelbon and Youk for extensions. 4 years for Beckett, 3 for Papelbon and Youk.

^^^^Rumors have it the Dodgers are hurting for money. I heard that last night ......

I heard there is no way they can sign Manny. At least not anywhere near what he wants.
So we can always bring Manny back. :D:D So I seriously doubt CC is in their plans. Driving the price up is a given.;)

Paying paps and youk and pedy will all fall into place. The cap goes up too.

If they flop and flounder this year look for a couple major deals. If they do well then they shore up what needs it with lesser deals.

I know they saw Manny's 20mil as a giant albatross. I would NOT sign Bay over the winter. Lets see him produce first.

They know Ortiz is aging too. If we can get a younger power bat like Tex I believe that intrigues them. Not sure how that would work , but they will be sniffing.

Sportfan
08-02-2008, 03:43 PM
NOTE: the halos have anderson, lackey, k-rod, figgins, tex, garland, and vlad all eligible for FA. they are obviously not going to sign them all. just a thought

Tragedy
08-02-2008, 06:35 PM
NOTE: the halos have anderson, lackey, k-rod, figgins, tex, garland, and vlad all eligible for FA. they are obviously not going to sign them all. just a thought
Well, Vlad and Lackey have options. They will most certainly be a member of the Angels next year.

Towelie
08-02-2008, 07:16 PM
Boston 2009:

Drew: 14
Ortiz: 12.5
Lowell: 12
Beckett: 9.5
lugo: 9
Dice: 8
Bay 7.5
Coco: 5.75
Wake: 4
Youk - ARB 4 million
Oki Club 1.75 (will happen for sure)
Lopez Arb - 1 million
Papelbon - 1.5 million
Pedroia - 750 thousand
Lester - 750 thousand
Delcarmen 500 thousand
Jacoby - .5 million
Aardsma - .5 million
Cash - .5 million
Clay - .45 million


99.70 million total

40 million Plus to spend in the off season.

Celts22
08-02-2008, 08:17 PM
Locking up Papelbon long term might be something to consider possibly before K-Rod is signed. My gut-feeling is that Paps will go where the money is once he hits FA.

kazzy4080
08-02-2008, 08:20 PM
we sign manny ramirez! but honestly i dont see any real holes that we need to fill, maybe a short stop? and a new young catcher and some bullpen help but i dont see the sox making any huge signings or trades in the off season

kazzy4080
08-02-2008, 08:22 PM
oh and the sox should NOT go after another starter like sheets or CC because we got five starters as it is and we could also put masterson in the rotation and we got bowden waiting in the wings

Greenmonster24
08-02-2008, 08:36 PM
You cannot have enough starters. Getting C.C. maybe give Beckett extra motivation to do well. I think Schilling and Wakefield tenure is gone. We could go with Lester #4 and Bucholz or Masterson #5 and yea we trade Crisp. He not worth 5.75 million to be a backup when Ellsbury already a better player then him and at 5 million less. Lugo has to go. He done horrible sense joining. Maybe go afte Fucal of L.A. Dodgers or Cabera of Whitesox. Cabera was great for us in 04. Texierra would be nice but over 20 million is to much. The fact that Youkilis is going hit 25 homers this year makes it hard unless you move Youk to third and trade Lowell which would be aweful considering he toke less money to sign here.

Greenmonster24
08-02-2008, 08:43 PM
Itstead of going after stars they could also spend the 40 million trying to make Fenway better. The whole grandstands need to be done. Fix the interstruture of the city and get more land and make Yawkey way inside the park and not just during game times and use the land around Fenway to make the staduim bigger and make full upper deck levels at least from home plate to first base and to third base. Chance the slope of the seats and get rid of the poles and fix the angles of the seats. 14 inches in grandstand is aweful with a pole on top of it. People aren't 5 feet today like 1920 they are 6 feet. If a plan could go through to improve all the seating at fenway and make it hold 50,000 and replace the poles which who knows how long they can hold anyway and put new sopport in upper deck is possible I rather go that way and use payroll to give it the benefits off all the new staduims while playing in a place all the greats have and keeping the history with it.

The Intimidator
08-02-2008, 08:49 PM
I believe that they will invest the money that they are saving in either a Papelbon long term deal, a Pedroia long term deal, or to bring in a guy like...fuentes?

SportsDrip
08-02-2008, 08:52 PM
I agree, I think they'll take a look at Sabathia or Sheets, more likely Sabathia, but ultimately I would hope they'd look to improve at short. Lowrie is doing well, do they take a chance and hope he is the guy, because Lugo obviously isn't. I haven't really looked to see who's available and their doesn't seem to be anyone ready to step up and take the role out of the farm system.

sportsdrip.com

The Intimidator
08-02-2008, 09:01 PM
Agreed...I'm sure that they will look at Sheets or Sabathia, but with Beckett, Dice-K, Lester, Buchholz, Masterson, and the ageless Wakefield, I think that they will look to spend their money on the bullpen, or long term deals for young guys.

RedSoxtober
08-02-2008, 09:26 PM
Were not getting Hanley.


we have the 2nd best farm system in baseball. How can we not trade for him? it's not like it's the rays or yankees. if they could have dealt cabrera last year, i don't understand how they cant deal for hanley. and the marlins :love: prospects.

I totally agree: the Sox are not getting Hanley. For all the hype and the fact that he once was in the Sox system I wouldn't want him playing SS. He's not particularly good fielding the position and probably fits better as a CF.


One thing we are over looking. we are going to need some of this money for paps and pedroia. i would be amazed to see them go after CC or sheets. sheets is injury prone and CC reminds me of another colon. CC will want years and theo will not give him that.

IMO Pedroia is the next to sign. I think there are or will be concerns about Pap. Shoulder issues will have them cautious but his "rambunctious" lifestyle will be a worry, too. Pedroia seems to be much more steady and level headed.

I disagree about Sheets. He does have an injury history but the last few DL stints (all 2007) were freakish things, not the issues with which he'd struggled. I really think Sheets fits the Sox' profile.


1) sign Tek- 2 years 12 million
2) extend Bay- 5 years 60 million
3) Sign Oliver Perez 5 years 70 million
4) Sign Brian Fuentes 4 years 30 million
5) Pick up Wakes Option


Contrary to others I don't think the Tek money is crazy. It probably is low but the Posada ordeal gives the Sox more amo for not getting crazy.

Perez is not nearly worth the money you're suggesting; we're better with homegrown than him any way.

Fuentes for $7.5M/yr? No way in hell I pay him closer money. Forget it. He is probably the most overvalued SU in MLB. His great value was built a few years ago when he was striking out everyone in sight -- those numbers are way down and so is his worth.

As for Bay, let's wait. It makes no sense to sign him until we need to. Waiting until some time next season allows us to evaluate him on more than a hot streak and lets the Sox determine whether they want him or Holliday... or wait for Reddick.


Resign Tek and Casey, give Oki another two year deal, just so that they don't have to deal with arbitration.

Sign Rafael Soriano and one of Luis Ayala or Damaso Marte.

Make a strong push at CC, if only to bump the price for the Yankees, although I think the Dodgers have a great shot at signing him. If CC doesn't sign, go after a Bartolo Colon-style reclamation project, the more competent starters the better.

With a weak SS market, offer to pay 3-4 of the 9 mil a year owed to Lugo and package him with a Chris Carter-type to attempt to con some team into taking him, sign someone like Uribe to compete with Lowrie for the SS job.

Begin discussions with Beckett, Papelbon and Youk for extensions. 4 years for Beckett, 3 for Papelbon and Youk.

I like the first two paragraphs though I don't think they need to do anything with Oki since they've got an option for him (BTW, he signed as a international FA, not via posting, so he'll be a FA rather than club-controlled arb guy).

I think they're more likely to try to get involved with Furcal than limp through with a Uribe type working with Lowrie.


i hope kottaras is able to pan out cuz i like him alot. He's got some pop in his bat (19 HRs in paw) but his other numbers need to come up (234/.342/.453).

He also has experience catching Sparks and Zink (knuckleballers) so i could see him as the backup in Bos next year catching wake.

Kottaras is not the catcher of the future. Regardless of his past numbers he's compiled nothing worth talking about at AAA and his defense is suspect. He came to baseball relatively late and his game management is not all that great.

Tragedy
08-03-2008, 12:26 AM
I totally agree: the Sox are not getting Hanley. For all the hype and the fact that he once was in the Sox system I wouldn't want him playing SS. He's not particularly good fielding the position and probably fits better as a CF.
What he lacks in the field, though, he absolutely makes up with his stick. Obviously we'd never get him due to him costing WAY too much, but I would be THRILLED to see this kid hitting in our lineup.

Towelie
08-03-2008, 12:50 AM
Furcal, might be a good idea. He's gonna cost tons.

Off season needs:

We lose two bench players. Chris Carter will replace Casey more then likely. Cora is gone but all signs point to Lowrie so we seem to be save on the bench.

SS: Lugo done in Boston? Lowrie starter?

Relief Pitching: Wheeler, Guardado, Fultz are the top of the pics. I could see wheeler stepping in nicely.

JacobyIsMyHomie
08-03-2008, 02:13 AM
How about Luis Exposito? Anyone else think this guy could be the catcher of the future if we resign tek for 2 years? He has already been promoted this year and is hitting .281 in Lancaster and is said to have excellent defensive ability.

lil'papi
08-03-2008, 07:11 AM
Itstead of going after stars they could also spend the 40 million trying to make Fenway better. The whole grandstands need to be done. Fix the interstruture of the city and get more land and make Yawkey way inside the park and not just during game times and use the land around Fenway to make the staduim bigger and make full upper deck levels at least from home plate to first base and to third base. Chance the slope of the seats and get rid of the poles and fix the angles of the seats. 14 inches in grandstand is aweful with a pole on top of it. People aren't 5 feet today like 1920 they are 6 feet. If a plan could go through to improve all the seating at fenway and make it hold 50,000 and replace the poles which who knows how long they can hold anyway and put new sopport in upper deck is possible I rather go that way and use payroll to give it the benefits off all the new staduims while playing in a place all the greats have and keeping the history with it.

You do realize the money for players has nothing to do with bonds for improvements correct? They don't lower payroll to fix the park?
The revenue this team generates is obscene. They can add players build a new park and never touch the bottom of anyones pocket.

We've discussed the park to no end.

lil'papi
08-03-2008, 07:14 AM
JJ Putz was being shopped maybe he fits in nicely. All kinds of things they can do this winter.
Money is NOT an issue.
They could spend 175k on payroll.......

lil'papi
08-03-2008, 09:04 AM
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view.bg?&articleid=1110692&format=&page=1&listingType=sox#articleFull

TotallySox9097
08-03-2008, 09:35 AM
I like Sheets more and think thell go after him

Towelie
08-03-2008, 10:23 AM
I don't this is the only season he's been healthy. CC is proven in the AL, Sheets isn't.

Tragedy
08-03-2008, 11:31 AM
No to Sheets. He's fantastic when healthy, but how often is that? If we're going after a pitcher, it has to be CC. He's a proven winner.

Osiagledknarf
08-03-2008, 12:51 PM
The Red Sox will get at least somewhat involved in talks with Sabathia only because the Yankees will be, and the Sox will want to drive up the price...and Sabathia is sure to ask for Johan Santana money already. You also have to figure Milwaukee will at least make a run at him because they gave up ALOT to get him. They might not get him, but it's just going to make the price go up even higher. I don't see Sabathia ending up in Boston.

Someone made a point about Papelbon probably going where the money is once he hits free agency...I think that might be true. I think he has even made comments about testing the market. So...it'd be great to lock him up, but I think he's probably determined to do the free agency thing. Worth a shot though...K-Rod is going to destroy the market with what he gets.

The rotation will probably look very similar to the way it does now. The market is going to look very underwhelming...Mike Hampton? Mark Prior? Jason Jennings? Hey, Pedro is available again. How about 46 year old Jamie Moyer? Wanna go after Carl Pavano who's pitched 19 games in the last 4 years for $38 million? The only notables are Jon Garland, Sheets, Sabathia, and MAYBE A.J. Burnett if he opts out or Rich Harden if his option isn't picked up...which it will be. Brad Penny could be out there...wanna take that risk? No.

Beckett, Matsuzaka, Lester, Wakefield, Buchholz, Masterson, Bowden...there you have it.

I don't think they'll go out and sign Bay to a long term deal so quickly, with only 2-3 months to see what he's about...especially when they have him through the 2009 season AND both he and Matt Holliday will be free agents after the 2009 season. No one's taking Lugo unless you eat the entire contract...and there's no way we're getting Michael Young, no way. Besides...he's going to be 32 next year and entering his limelight...don't go out and trade for 32 year old shortstops, please. Same story with Furcal...please, he'd be Lugo all over again. Lowrie is proving himself every game, I think the Sox are committed to him. Teixeira would be cool, no doubt...but where do you put him? Youkilis is putting up just about the same numbers and plays the same caliber defense, with more positional versatility. Same as Sabathia...the Sox will throw their hat in the Teixeira sweepstakes, but it's just to screw the Yankees. Vlad? Where do you want to put him? The outfield is full...unless you trade Drew or Bay. Drew's not going to be traded and Bay is cheap for similar numbers...so in 2009, the outfield looks the same as this year's.

Varitek is a tough question. He's killing us at the plate but no one can say he's not critical to the success of the pitching staff. The man has caught 4 no-hitters...which is no coincidence. My vote is to bring him back with a reasonable contract that's fair to both sides...3 years, $25 million with incentives. That gives Tek very fair compensation and lets the Sox work in a younger catcher over the next three years...with Varitek's help. Awesome.

So, the lineup looks pretty much the same next year too...with some new names on the bench. Crisp could go or might not...if you can push him for a young catcher...do it...otherwise, keep his defense. Cora probably won't be back...so Lowrie will be your utility infielder...cause they're not gonna be able to dump Lugo. Cash is doing fine and will probably be back...unless you want to put Rod Barajas or Adam Melhuse in there. Maybe a trade...but with catchers in short supply...it'll be prohibitively expensive. Bowden for Gerald Laird? No, thank you. Saltalamacchia...sure...but they'll want even more for him...so Cash is back. Throw in reserve first baseman X, and you got your 25 guy roster. The Red Sox don't have any pressing, urgent needs...so there's not going to be any impulse buying.

So those are my thoughts...in my very first post on PSD.

yaowowrocket11
08-03-2008, 12:59 PM
I definitely prefer CC. He is a beast. The only thing that worries me is his playoff performance. Can he be trusted in a big Game 7? I am not so sure.

americaspasttim
08-03-2008, 01:24 PM
The Red Sox will get at least somewhat involved in talks with Sabathia only because the Yankees will be, and the Sox will want to drive up the price...and Sabathia is sure to ask for Johan Santana money already. You also have to figure Milwaukee will at least make a run at him because they gave up ALOT to get him. They might not get him, but it's just going to make the price go up even higher. I don't see Sabathia ending up in Boston.

Someone made a point about Papelbon probably going where the money is once he hits free agency...I think that might be true. I think he has even made comments about testing the market. So...it'd be great to lock him up, but I think he's probably determined to do the free agency thing. Worth a shot though...K-Rod is going to destroy the market with what he gets.

The rotation will probably look very similar to the way it does now. The market is going to look very underwhelming...Mike Hampton? Mark Prior? Jason Jennings? Hey, Pedro is available again. How about 46 year old Jamie Moyer? Wanna go after Carl Pavano who's pitched 19 games in the last 4 years for $38 million? The only notables are Jon Garland, Sheets, Sabathia, and MAYBE A.J. Burnett if he opts out or Rich Harden if his option isn't picked up...which it will be. Brad Penny could be out there...wanna take that risk? No.

Beckett, Matsuzaka, Lester, Wakefield, Buchholz, Masterson, Bowden...there you have it.

I don't think they'll go out and sign Bay to a long term deal so quickly, with only 2-3 months to see what he's about...especially when they have him through the 2009 season AND both he and Matt Holliday will be free agents after the 2009 season. No one's taking Lugo unless you eat the entire contract...and there's no way we're getting Michael Young, no way. Besides...he's going to be 32 next year and entering his limelight...don't go out and trade for 32 year old shortstops, please. Same story with Furcal...please, he'd be Lugo all over again. Lowrie is proving himself every game, I think the Sox are committed to him. Teixeira would be cool, no doubt...but where do you put him? Youkilis is putting up just about the same numbers and plays the same caliber defense, with more positional versatility. Same as Sabathia...the Sox will throw their hat in the Teixeira sweepstakes, but it's just to screw the Yankees. Vlad? Where do you want to put him? The outfield is full...unless you trade Drew or Bay. Drew's not going to be traded and Bay is cheap for similar numbers...so in 2009, the outfield looks the same as this year's.

Varitek is a tough question. He's killing us at the plate but no one can say he's not critical to the success of the pitching staff. The man has caught 4 no-hitters...which is no coincidence. My vote is to bring him back with a reasonable contract that's fair to both sides...3 years, $25 million with incentives. That gives Tek very fair compensation and lets the Sox work in a younger catcher over the next three years...with Varitek's help. Awesome.

So, the lineup looks pretty much the same next year too...with some new names on the bench. Crisp could go or might not...if you can push him for a young catcher...do it...otherwise, keep his defense. Cora probably won't be back...so Lowrie will be your utility infielder...cause they're not gonna be able to dump Lugo. Cash is doing fine and will probably be back...unless you want to put Rod Barajas or Adam Melhuse in there. Maybe a trade...but with catchers in short supply...it'll be prohibitively expensive. Bowden for Gerald Laird? No, thank you. Saltalamacchia...sure...but they'll want even more for him...so Cash is back. Throw in reserve first baseman X, and you got your 25 guy roster. The Red Sox don't have any pressing, urgent needs...so there's not going to be any impulse buying.

So those are my thoughts...in my very first post on PSD.
Welcome to PSD. I agree with alot of what you said, however I wouldn't be surprised if the Sox did sign Sabathia. With all of the money off the books, there's going to be one huge signing and that one would be the most helpful. Tex like you said would be nice, but there would be no place to put him. Other then pitching, SS is the only place I'd like to see an upgrade but there won't be any worth pursuing...

boodgyman5220
08-03-2008, 01:25 PM
I was watching one of the games and the commentators were talkign about varitek. They said he is at a point in time where most hitters will change their swing and will start hitting better. So maybe he'll work on it this winter and return to from next year. But the things he brings to the table besides hitting are worth watching him walk to the plate and just take three straight pitches.

asomen
08-03-2008, 01:39 PM
I was watching one of the games and the commentators were talkign about varitek. They said he is at a point in time where most hitters will change their swing and will start hitting better. So maybe he'll work on it this winter and return to from next year. But the things he brings to the table besides hitting are worth watching him walk to the plate and just take three straight pitches.



I agree...during his huge slump varitek was pulling off of everything i noticed...his lead shoulder was flying out and he would either pop out to the infield or strike out...

lately...even though its still a problem...he is keeping his shoulder and head on the ball alot longer. He is still hitting weak popups at times...but he is starting to drive the ball alot better from what I can see. He just needs to try and hit the ball up the middle. Base hits up the middle is all we can ask from him.

bagwell368
08-03-2008, 04:12 PM
No, I'd much rather see him starting games. I think the Red Sox project him there long term.

If we want a good young arm to SU next year, I'm all for Daniel Bard.

I believe it is the opposite, they see him as set-up guy, and a good one.

If Bucholz seems to have turned a corner, then C & SS will be the focus of the $$$ spent, but if not, then CC is coming, and Bucholz is going in a trade of some sort.

Towelie
08-03-2008, 04:27 PM
Bucholz will not be traded by next year, sorry not going to happen.

celticfan
08-03-2008, 09:10 PM
For some reason I see them going after C.C giving us the most dominant rotation in baseball...

Beckett
CC
Dice
Lester
Wake/Buchholz

What about Materson and Bowden and those guys. When will they get to the rotation. I say we sign a catcher to replace V-Tek

kazzy4080
08-03-2008, 09:39 PM
The Red Sox will get at least somewhat involved in talks with Sabathia only because the Yankees will be, and the Sox will want to drive up the price...and Sabathia is sure to ask for Johan Santana money already. You also have to figure Milwaukee will at least make a run at him because they gave up ALOT to get him. They might not get him, but it's just going to make the price go up even higher. I don't see Sabathia ending up in Boston.

Someone made a point about Papelbon probably going where the money is once he hits free agency...I think that might be true. I think he has even made comments about testing the market. So...it'd be great to lock him up, but I think he's probably determined to do the free agency thing. Worth a shot though...K-Rod is going to destroy the market with what he gets.

The rotation will probably look very similar to the way it does now. The market is going to look very underwhelming...Mike Hampton? Mark Prior? Jason Jennings? Hey, Pedro is available again. How about 46 year old Jamie Moyer? Wanna go after Carl Pavano who's pitched 19 games in the last 4 years for $38 million? The only notables are Jon Garland, Sheets, Sabathia, and MAYBE A.J. Burnett if he opts out or Rich Harden if his option isn't picked up...which it will be. Brad Penny could be out there...wanna take that risk? No.

Beckett, Matsuzaka, Lester, Wakefield, Buchholz, Masterson, Bowden...there you have it.

I don't think they'll go out and sign Bay to a long term deal so quickly, with only 2-3 months to see what he's about...especially when they have him through the 2009 season AND both he and Matt Holliday will be free agents after the 2009 season. No one's taking Lugo unless you eat the entire contract...and there's no way we're getting Michael Young, no way. Besides...he's going to be 32 next year and entering his limelight...don't go out and trade for 32 year old shortstops, please. Same story with Furcal...please, he'd be Lugo all over again. Lowrie is proving himself every game, I think the Sox are committed to him. Teixeira would be cool, no doubt...but where do you put him? Youkilis is putting up just about the same numbers and plays the same caliber defense, with more positional versatility. Same as Sabathia...the Sox will throw their hat in the Teixeira sweepstakes, but it's just to screw the Yankees. Vlad? Where do you want to put him? The outfield is full...unless you trade Drew or Bay. Drew's not going to be traded and Bay is cheap for similar numbers...so in 2009, the outfield looks the same as this year's.

Varitek is a tough question. He's killing us at the plate but no one can say he's not critical to the success of the pitching staff. The man has caught 4 no-hitters...which is no coincidence. My vote is to bring him back with a reasonable contract that's fair to both sides...3 years, $25 million with incentives. That gives Tek very fair compensation and lets the Sox work in a younger catcher over the next three years...with Varitek's help. Awesome.

So, the lineup looks pretty much the same next year too...with some new names on the bench. Crisp could go or might not...if you can push him for a young catcher...do it...otherwise, keep his defense. Cora probably won't be back...so Lowrie will be your utility infielder...cause they're not gonna be able to dump Lugo. Cash is doing fine and will probably be back...unless you want to put Rod Barajas or Adam Melhuse in there. Maybe a trade...but with catchers in short supply...it'll be prohibitively expensive. Bowden for Gerald Laird? No, thank you. Saltalamacchia...sure...but they'll want even more for him...so Cash is back. Throw in reserve first baseman X, and you got your 25 guy roster. The Red Sox don't have any pressing, urgent needs...so there's not going to be any impulse buying.

So those are my thoughts...in my very first post on PSD.

wow its almost like we have the same ideas but u have the patience to write them out. i agree with you on basically everything. however i think you might see a bay extension during the off season. i really dont think the sox will go for sabathia just because our rotation is filled up, we got beckett, dice-k, and lester who all have shown they can be number 1 or 2 guys, wake whose pretty consistent year in and year out, then if clay can get back on the right track we got our five man rotation and we still could put masterson or give a shot to bowden or zink next year in the rotation if someone goes down

ZHawk1123
08-03-2008, 09:41 PM
What about Materson and Bowden and those guys. When will they get to the rotation. I say we sign a catcher to replace V-Tek

Masterson stays in the pen and Bowden is traded to get that catcher of the future...

WilymoPena
08-03-2008, 10:13 PM
Haha. Forgot.

I've always been a big Perez fan. He's inconsistent, but when he pitches at his best he is a very good pitcher. Although 70 mil is quite a lot That'll probably be the asking price for him.

I would rather trade for Gil Meche and his contract than pay Perez that amount of Jack

WilymoPena
08-03-2008, 10:16 PM
And we should get J.J. Putz to setup

RedSoxRok34
08-03-2008, 10:22 PM
I honestly don't see the sox landing a sabathia/sheets type, because we already have enough starting pitching. yes i realize those are famous last words, but take a look: beckett, dice-k, and lester are locks, and all are capable of pitching at ace level. wake will probably be back again, because there's no reason to decline a 4 mil option on a guy who is rarely injured and is a consistent workhorse. buchholz will probably be the #5, though masterson could step in if need be, and bowden is rapidly rising through the system. that's 7 guys who could probably be counted on to start next year (granted bowden shouldn't be until after the AS break). add charlie zink to it, and even guys like pauley and hansack that can be short term solutions if we get in REAL trouble, i just don't see the need to burn the ridiculous amount of money sabathia or sheets will cost. and sheets could easily turn into the next zito, except he'll be injured while zito's just ineffective.

to be honest, i can't see them making any big moves. i'm predicting a pretty quiet offseason. the only spots in the lineup with potential flux are catcher and SS. v-tek will probably be back, and we'll just have to pick who we want the backup to be. at SS, id love to dump lugo and plug lowrie in full time, but idk which team would take him. as for upgrading at SS above lowrie, don't bet on it. I can't imagine any of the premier SSs moving. the three big guns in the NL east (rollins, reyes, ramirez) are all locked in. while i would love to indulge in the pipe dream of getting one of them, it's not going to happen.

opening day 2009, the roster will look pretty much the same as it does now.

Shaiza
08-03-2008, 11:09 PM
We're getting a big bat I believe. Also add relief help to that. And I expect some major trades.

tonyd3b54
08-03-2008, 11:26 PM
3 things i hope the sox will do...
1)sign ben sheets
2)extend bay
3)im not sure if hes a FA but sign furcal

tc2deuce
08-03-2008, 11:27 PM
If we can get CC and Vlad......that would be a dream come true!
We really need CC.............Pitching wins rings!!

tc2deuce
08-03-2008, 11:31 PM
Sheets is suspect....I like him but I am scared of injuries
CC has swag! and I can't imagine how well he will pitch with protection of Beckett,Lester, and Dice K!

ThreeIfBaerga
08-04-2008, 12:00 AM
I think they'll sign someone like Rafael Soriano, who should be a FA if the Braves don't try to lock him up. He might be a Type A and cost a pick, which sucks, but he's been a dominant back end bullpen guy year in and year out.

Tragedy
08-04-2008, 12:11 AM
If we can get CC and Vlad......that would be a dream come true!
We really need CC.............Pitching wins rings!!
Vlad is not a FA.


We're getting a big bat I believe. Also add relief help to that. And I expect some major trades.
And where do we put the big bat? The only possible positions are Catcher and SS. Who from those positions are a legit possibility?

Osiagledknarf
08-04-2008, 12:37 AM
We're getting a big bat I believe. Also add relief help to that. And I expect some major trades.

Why do you think we're getting a big bat? And what makes you think there are going to be big trades? There really aren't any signs that point to that happening. The outfield is full...Drew is untradeable...Ellsbury is untouchable...and Bay is cheap and puts up consistent numbers. No change there. Youkilis is cheaper than Teixeira and is getting better. Pedroia is untouchable. Lugo isn't going anywhere because...well, would YOU trade for Lugo? No. Lowell is plugged in for good. Varitek is probably coming back. Are you going to sign a "big bat" for the bench? Also no.

Besides that, the only way to get a "big bat" is via trade or free agency...a trade would essentially consist of us paying more money for the same level talent we already have, and that's nonsense. It would also cost us a ridiculous price in prospects and Theo has a proven track record of protecting the Red Sox young...so that isn't going to happen. As for free agency...go check the list of available free agents this offseason...go ahead, I'll wait... ... ... ... right, not much there, huh? Unless you want to sign Manny Ramirez, but I have heard one or two rumors that he MIGHT be a bad clubhouse presence... Jason Giambi? Frank Thomas? Carlos Delgado? If you said "yes" to any of them, then...seriously, what? There's no place for Pat Burrell, Bobby Abreu, Adam Dunn, etc. The next rung down is Ken Griffey Jr., Rocco Baldelli, or Jim Edmonds...let's not be silly.

No major trades. Lots of wishful thinking, maybe...but no major trades.

Osiagledknarf
08-04-2008, 12:52 AM
And we should get J.J. Putz to setup

What are you willing to trade for a guy posting a near 5.00 ERA in a relatively weak division? And you want him to set-up, but you can be sure Seattle will ask for a closer's ransom for him. That move is not likely.

tc2deuce
08-04-2008, 01:22 AM
[QUOTE=Tragedy;6140658]Vlad is not a FA.


I know that.........don't rule out a trade!

Shaiza
08-04-2008, 01:27 AM
Why do you think we're getting a big bat? And what makes you think there are going to be big trades? There really aren't any signs that point to that happening. The outfield is full...Drew is untradeable...Ellsbury is untouchable...and Bay is cheap and puts up consistent numbers. No change there. Youkilis is cheaper than Teixeira and is getting better. Pedroia is untouchable. Lugo isn't going anywhere because...well, would YOU trade for Lugo? No. Lowell is plugged in for good. Varitek is probably coming back. Are you going to sign a "big bat" for the bench? Also no.

Besides that, the only way to get a "big bat" is via trade or free agency...a trade would essentially consist of us paying more money for the same level talent we already have, and that's nonsense. It would also cost us a ridiculous price in prospects and Theo has a proven track record of protecting the Red Sox young...so that isn't going to happen. As for free agency...go check the list of available free agents this offseason...go ahead, I'll wait... ... ... ... right, not much there, huh? Unless you want to sign Manny Ramirez, but I have heard one or two rumors that he MIGHT be a bad clubhouse presence... Jason Giambi? Frank Thomas? Carlos Delgado? If you said "yes" to any of them, then...seriously, what? There's no place for Pat Burrell, Bobby Abreu, Adam Dunn, etc. The next rung down is Ken Griffey Jr., Rocco Baldelli, or Jim Edmonds...let's not be silly.

No major trades. Lots of wishful thinking, maybe...but no major trades.

No major trades? We'll see about that. I see one of our big prospects getting traded in a deal this offseason. Of course, decisions will be altered pending on how we finish the season, but I'm sure we'll go after pitching in the trade market. As far as the big bat goes, no one can change my mind on that. No one can really predict the future, but I wouldn't be surprised to see someone like Buchholz get traded. It's way too early to say what should happen, but I do expect a major trade.


What are you willing to trade for a guy posting a near 5.00 ERA in a relatively weak division? And you want him to set-up, but you can be sure Seattle will ask for a closer's ransom for him. That move is not likely.

Relatively weak? That Rangers offense is above average. Angels are the best team in the MLB. Oakland is the real weak team in that division. Anyway, many excuses can be put up for Putz's poor season. For one thing, he is coming back from an injury he suffered earlier in the season.

He has faced the Rangers 6 times. In total he gave up 4 ER in 6 IP (he's had bad experiences with Texas). Against Oakland, he had one appearance, in a terrible outing where he gave up 2 ER in an inning with 3 walks. He was having a good May. After the injury hit in early June, he was never really the same. With a good offseason, this guy should be back to normal. He owned our division last year. He'll definitely be sought after by Theo. What a guy to have as a set up. His stats this year are very deceptive.

Shaiza
08-04-2008, 01:28 AM
Vlad is not a FA.


And where do we put the big bat? The only possible positions are Catcher and SS. Who from those positions are a legit possibility?

He actually is. But the team has a club option of 15 million which will surely be picked up.

asomen
08-04-2008, 01:35 AM
He actually is. But the team has a club option of 15 million which will surely be picked up.

don't be so sure....if they decide to try and resign teixeira and k rod...vlad might walk. they can't sign all 3. and by the way...if k rod walks...do we make a run at him?

Sweet_Caroline
08-04-2008, 01:39 AM
don't be so sure....if they decide to try and resign teixeira and k rod...vlad might walk. they can't sign all 3. and by the way...if k rod walks...do we make a run at him?

I thought that about K rod but I don't think he'd be willing to set-up, because I'm pretty sure Paps has the 9th locked down. And Paps said he wants to remain the closer so moving him to starter is probably out of the question. I don't see signing K rod very likely at all.

BigPapi04
08-04-2008, 01:59 AM
matt holliday is gonna be on the list, along with cc

Osiagledknarf
08-04-2008, 02:01 AM
3 things i hope the sox will do...
1)sign ben sheets
2)extend bay
3)im not sure if hes a FA but sign furcal


No major trades? We'll see about that. I see one of our big prospects getting traded in a deal this offseason. Of course, decisions will be altered pending on how we finish the season, but I'm sure we'll go after pitching in the trade market. As far as the big bat goes, no one can change my mind on that. No one can really predict the future, but I wouldn't be surprised to see someone like Buchholz get traded. It's way too early to say what should happen, but I do expect a major trade.



Relatively weak? That Rangers offense is above average. Angels are the best team in the MLB. Oakland is the real weak team in that division. Anyway, many excuses can be put up for Putz's poor season. For one thing, he is coming back from an injury he suffered earlier in the season.

He has faced the Rangers 6 times. In total he gave up 4 ER in 6 IP (he's had bad experiences with Texas). Against Oakland, he had one appearance, in a terrible outing where he gave up 2 ER in an inning with 3 walks. He was having a good May. After the injury hit in early June, he was never really the same. With a good offseason, this guy should be back to normal. He owned our division last year. He'll definitely be sought after by Theo. What a guy to have as a set up. His stats this year are very deceptive.

It sounds like you're convinced...you make good arguments, I'm just otherwise convinced. The Rangers play in a park that inflates their numbers, the Angels have thus far won with pitching and defense, not hitting...and Seattle is a joke.

I guess we disagree entirely...it'll be fun to see how it turns out.

Osiagledknarf
08-04-2008, 02:48 AM
3 things i hope the sox will do...
1)sign ben sheets
2)extend bay
3)im not sure if hes a FA but sign furcal


If we can get CC and Vlad......that would be a dream come true!
We really need CC.............Pitching wins rings!!

They're not going after Ben Sheets. He's injured more often than not and obviously having contract year success. You should definitely expect his numbers to be worse next year, and they'd be even worse in Fenway.

Extending Bay so quickly doesn't make much sense either. He's under contractual control through the 2009 season at no risk whatsoever. You're still going to have exclusive negotiating rights with him the entire season. Extending him now only limits your options...which is never prudent.

Why on Earth would you sign Furcal? He's 31 and has been on the DL for the majority of the year with back strains. Why would you want to a give multi-year contract to a 31 year old shortstop with back problems? He'd be the same player as Lugo...plus you'd still have Lugo! There is no way you can move Lugo unless you eat the whole contract...which is silly at $16 million left. I also don't understand why everyone is so quick to dismiss Lowrie. He's young, economic, athletic, and smart. He's playing better defense than Lugo, has 8 RBI's in the last week, and all in the middle of an intense pennant race. He's a switch-hitter and under contractual control for the next 5-6 years. What else does he need to do to get people to take him seriously? You don't need a name brand shortstop, it's not the glamour position it was in the mid-90's...Lowrie makes sense, makes the plays, and gives you good, productive at bats. He should be our shortstop, we're in a youth movement anyway.

Vlad, Vlad, Vlad... I truly do not understand all the fascination with aging superstars. He's 32, and he'll be 33 at the start of the 2009 season. Injuries are starting to be a concern. He's going to want at least 4 years. Why would you do that to us? You also have no place to put him...you can't move Drew, you won't move Ellsbury, and Bay makes good business sense. We should be more concerned with potential offensive and defensive balance, output, and value indexes than big, shiny names. Vlad would be a bad move.

I guess the CC Sabathia talk isn't going to end, but I think I have a couple really good reasons NOT to sign him.

Sabathia is going to want a ton of money over alot of years. Are you comfortable paying him more than you are paying Beckett...who, by the way you are going to need to re-sign in a couple years or extend even sooner? If you give Sabathia his $20 million+ over 5-7 years, how do you expect to be able to afford to bring back Beckett and not neglect other needs, like catcher, bullpen, etc? If I have to pick between beckett and Sabathia...I take Beckett everytime.

Also, a 300 pound left-hander in Fenway? That sounds like bad math to me...it also sounds like David Wells. Leftie's don't do particularly great in Fenway, and Sabathia's numbers there would support that. (Side note: Jon Lester is amazing). Plus, Sabathia's bulky body type means he's going to be a big injury risk as he gets into his 30's, which is coming right up. You could be putting out alot of money and end up with alot of DL time. It's a big risk.

Pitching DOES win rings, no doubt. But if I have to pick one clutch pitcher to lead us, it's Beckett...and you probably can't have two $20 million dollar pitchers in that rotation, even with the money we have. Beckett is your guy, and we have a deep pool of strong, young arms with which to fill out the rotation economically and effectively.

Osiagledknarf
08-04-2008, 03:03 AM
matt holliday is gonna be on the list, along with cc

You can only get Matt Holliday via trade...and you have Bay already, who's essentially the same player. So it would be kind of an illogical, expensive move just because you like one name better than the other.

Even if you move Bay, and somehow flip the return for Holliday, you've essentially just traded for the same player. They're both free agents after the 2009 season anyway...I'm very big on Holliday, but now that we have Bay...it seems redundant. Wait it out, see what Bay can do, and then make your decision...but take your time, paaaatience.

Osiagledknarf
08-04-2008, 03:14 AM
It sounds like you're convinced...you make good arguments, I'm just otherwise convinced. The Rangers play in a park that inflates their numbers, the Angels have thus far won with pitching and defense, not hitting...and Seattle is a joke.

I guess we disagree entirely...it'll be fun to see how it turns out.

And by Seattle is a joke, I mean Oakland.

Osiagledknarf
08-04-2008, 03:23 AM
I thought that about K rod but I don't think he'd be willing to set-up, because I'm pretty sure Paps has the 9th locked down. And Paps said he wants to remain the closer so moving him to starter is probably out of the question. I don't see signing K rod very likely at all.

There's zero chance whatsoever of signing K-Rod. Too much money for something you already have.

Osiagledknarf
08-04-2008, 07:34 AM
No major trades? We'll see about that. I see one of our big prospects getting traded in a deal this offseason. Of course, decisions will be altered pending on how we finish the season, but I'm sure we'll go after pitching in the trade market. As far as the big bat goes, no one can change my mind on that. No one can really predict the future, but I wouldn't be surprised to see someone like Buchholz get traded. It's way too early to say what should happen, but I do expect a major trade.



Relatively weak? That Rangers offense is above average. Angels are the best team in the MLB. Oakland is the real weak team in that division. Anyway, many excuses can be put up for Putz's poor season. For one thing, he is coming back from an injury he suffered earlier in the season.

He has faced the Rangers 6 times. In total he gave up 4 ER in 6 IP (he's had bad experiences with Texas). Against Oakland, he had one appearance, in a terrible outing where he gave up 2 ER in an inning with 3 walks. He was having a good May. After the injury hit in early June, he was never really the same. With a good offseason, this guy should be back to normal. He owned our division last year. He'll definitely be sought after by Theo. What a guy to have as a set up. His stats this year are very deceptive.

Some more thoughts I just had on this post...

If you don't give up Buchholz in a package for Johan Santana last year, there's no way you give him up for any of the far lesser talent that's available via trade this year. Gil Meche? Really? $10 million a year as opposed to maybe $370,000 for Buchholz, with probably the same results? Peavy's not available, Felix Hernandez is not available, Tim Lincecum is not available, Liriano is not available, Cole Hamels is not available. Those are the only kind of guys you can send off a very high upside talent like Buchholz (plus whatever other 2-3 prospects they want...for any starting pitcher, no just the A-listers) in exchange for...otherwise the cost/benefit scheme is totally unjustifiable in terms of talent outlay and return. Same with Masterson, Bowden, and Bard...very high talent, very highly regarded within the organization. I don't see anything in Theo's track record that would lead anyone to believe he's going to parcel off very good young prospects for large contract players. The Beckett deal? Beckett qualifies as an A-lister...none of whom are available this offseason.

So, I guess my question is, respectfully of course...you said you see one of our big prospects getting dealt this winter? What actual signs or needs bring you to that conclusion...maybe I am missing something.

You seem convinced of a "big bat" acquisition...but where do you put him? There's no available slot or position for him.

As for Putz...like I said I still think that division is relatively weak. Oakland, we're agreed, is rebuilding. Texas benefits from a tiny park. And the Angels are great...by far the strongest team in baseball...but up til last week it was all pitching and defense, not overwhelming offense. Now, that being said...I searched in vain for current scouting reports on Putz, but to no avail. So aside from the injury, I am not sure how to explain that ERA. Did he lose velocity or movement? I don't know...it's something to look into. The other thing to consider is that Putz will be make $4.4 million in 2008, and probably more next year. That's a ton of money to pay a guy just to set up....plus you'd have to give up alot to get him in terms of prospects, and especially if he is coming off an injury...Theo is not going to do that, it's inadvisable at best. Now, of course...if you can find a way to get him for cheap and not give up an of your high end prospects, then sure...go for it. But you can't do that, because the Mariners will market him as a closers, and closers are expensive...especially if you make the trade after K-Rod signs his new huge contract. So, I'm sure you have your reasons...but for me, looking at it in terms of simple economic outlay versus return, I don't think it makes sense.

Someone mentioned Rafael Soriano...that's a good move. Guys like him, Will Ohman, Brandon Lyon, Dan Wheeler, Joe Beimel, or heck even Derrick Turnbow make good sense because they're all free agents...some type A, some type B...and can be had for just money, without giving up the farm. Turnbow is particularly interesting because I could see giving him an incentives laden contract for 1 or 2 years, giving him a chance to prove himself again at very little cost or risk to the Sox with very high potential gain (similar to what they did with Bartolo Colon). I'm not totally opposed to some kind of trade to help out the bullpen, but I certainly wouldn't give up any high end prospects to do so. In a trade, I'd be looking for guys like Wilfredo Ledezma from SD, Jack Taschner from SF, maybe Frank Francisco of TEX (but they'd probably ask too much), Matt Guerrier from MIN, or maybe Bill Bray from CIN. Middle innings guys.

The only position player need I would package prospects for would be a good, sure thing catcher. The market for catchers looks poor over the next couple of years, Kottaras has started hitting but it still struggling defensively, Dusty Brown is a similar story. So at some point, Catcher is going to be a problem...if something good becomes available...Saltalamacchia, for instance, I'd jump on that. Otherwise, I sit on the prospects.

Finally, alot of people are writing off Buchholz because he's having a rough go right now. I think that's really premature...people were ready to force Pedroia to retire in the first few months of his rookie year...and now it's clear that patience was the best policy. Buccholz is still a rookie...today will be just his 17th major league appearance, and we're quitting on him already? Give him time to make adjustments, let John Farrell work with him, and let him work away at it...and he'll turn it around. I think there are some pretty impulsive thoughts floating around...but the Red Sox are really fortunate to have enough good talent at the Major League level to be able to work in some of the young guys and really be patient and let them find their niche and groove. There's no need to rush, you don't have to go 162-0 or have a roster full of All-Stars...let's not be the Yankees and trade away all our prospects. Pedroia, Lester, Ellsbury, Delcarmen, Papelbon all came up through our system and all hit rough spots...would you trade any of them now? Buchholz is going to change your mind...guaranteed.

lil'papi
08-04-2008, 08:20 AM
Theo already tried to get CC this year. Cleveland asked for a little too much. This time no prospects.
Beckett has NOTHING to do with signing another player. Beckett has FAR from earned a raise IMO. He is up and down. He was HAPPY with his last contract and the RS will watch him closely before giving him a 20mil per deal. CC won't get 20mil either. Unless its the NYY.

They don't care. Ortiz made less than Manny too!

If the players see management improving their team most guys welcome the deals. CC would help Beckett get more , that's if Beckett earns it.

Right now today, CC is pitching better than Beckett. Where in your book does it say because you weigh 300lbs you are going to get hurt? fallacy......CC in Boston would be used much more judiciously, FACT.

Salty has been discussed so many times its borderline psycho. We DON'T want him. I'm not saying they don't find a catcher for the future because they will. They will also find a few BP arms.

They will be approx. 75 mil under payroll to start next year. To even suggest nothing happens beyond a catcher is well ridiculous.

I am not in Theo's head though.

We will sign a big name via trade or FA guaranteed, if ,we don't make the playoffs this year. If we do and get swept we still sign a big name.

If we win the WS again, they probably just tweak it.

lil'papi
08-04-2008, 09:02 AM
Everything depends solely on how we finish the year. They aren't going to sit on a huge pile of dough some though will go to signing Pedy, youk, Paps.

Papelbon isn't going anywhere. He talks too much. He will jump all over the first contract he sees he isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. RS lock him him up is a guarantee.
Pedroia will also get locked up.
Youkilis too.

CC will be an interesting FA. We freed up money for something beyond locking guys up. JJ Putz is a sure look see.
Him alone replacing Timlin would be a nice deal.

it's the money though ....they will have so much of it burning a hole ...

No way they don't get in on certain guys. CC for sure if like mentioned just to drive the price skyward. Even though that's a overblown point. NYY just spend it....no matter what.
If they want CC they will get him, I agree. CASHman probably won't be back to talk them out of it.

Bay we MUST watch another year to determine his value.

I'm not sold they won't move guys though to open spaces for guys they covet more. Theo gets a hard-0n for a player he is like a attack dog. Think Drew....Think Lugo....

Lugo, Coco could be packaged. Obviously we get a hotdogless bun in return.:p I could easily see Lowrie if he keeps shining back as the everyday SS.

I like him.

I hope they do integrate more and more kids from the farm into the team its more fun. One more tidbit Schilling could be brought back late next year. Don't be surprised. I'd prefer he went away though.

RedSoxtober
08-04-2008, 09:20 AM
No to Sheets. He's fantastic when healthy, but how often is that? If we're going after a pitcher, it has to be CC. He's a proven winner.

Sheets has been healthy a lot more than most people think. The injuries that knocked him out last year were freak injuries -- got hit with ball iirc. His injury history has been related to other things and I think the Sox could manage around that just as they have with Papelbon (and wise management has done with him lately).



Someone made a point about Papelbon probably going where the money is once he hits free agency...I think that might be true. I think he has even made comments about testing the market. So...it'd be great to lock him up, but I think he's probably determined to do the free agency thing. Worth a shot though...K-Rod is going to destroy the market with what he gets.

Welcome to PSD. Interesting the way to have completely differing opinions on the relative values of Putz and K-Rod. You dismiss Putz because he pitches in a "weak division" yet K-Rod "is going to destroy the market" pitching in the same division. How exactly does that work?

Putz is not having a great year, but look at his career splits:


G GS W L SV CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA
vs. BAL 18 0 2 1 9 0 0 19.1 12 6 6 1 3 17 2.79 0.78 .179
vs. NYY 19 0 0 1 6 0 0 19.2 16 7 7 3 4 17 3.20 1.02 .219
vs. TB 10 0 1 0 7 0 0 11.2 4 3 3 1 4 12 2.31 0.69 .105
vs. TOR 18 0 1 0 7 0 0 17.0 17 3 3 1 6 10 1.59 1.35 .262
vs. LAA 28 0 2 3 5 0 0 27.0 31 15 15 3 8 27 5.00 1.44 .295
vs. CWS 18 0 0 0 6 0 0 18.0 8 2 2 1 10 15 1.00 1.00 .140
vs. CLE 18 0 2 1 4 0 0 20.1 21 7 6 3 7 27 2.66 1.38 .269


Overall those are some pretty good lines against important opponents.

Do the Sox sign him (or K-Rod)? Unlikely. Both those guys want to go where they can be the closer. It's got less to do with whether the Sox would be duplicating than it does for what they want both in therms of money and career.


The rotation will probably look very similar to the way it does now. The market is going to look very underwhelming...Mike Hampton? Mark Prior? Jason Jennings? Hey, Pedro is available again. How about 46 year old Jamie Moyer? Wanna go after Carl Pavano who's pitched 19 games in the last 4 years for $38 million? The only notables are Jon Garland, Sheets, Sabathia, and MAYBE A.J. Burnett if he opts out or Rich Harden if his option isn't picked up...which it will be. Brad Penny could be out there...wanna take that risk? No.
Off topic: Pavano had a start this past weekend... against Greenville! 3IP, 5H, 1ER, 2K. Only his second start back.



If we can get CC and Vlad......that would be a dream come true!
We really need CC.............Pitching wins rings!!


[Vlad] actually is [an FA]. But the team has a club option of 15 million which will surely be picked up.

Technically he's not a free agent until LAA declines his option, but at the money it's a forgone conclusion.



The only position player need I would package prospects for would be a good, sure thing catcher. The market for catchers looks poor over the next couple of years, Kottaras has started hitting but it still struggling defensively, Dusty Brown is a similar story. So at some point, Catcher is going to be a problem...if something good becomes available...Saltalamacchia, for instance, I'd jump on that. Otherwise, I sit on the prospects.


What's the 'similar story' on Brown? He's always been a defensive catcher.

"Scouting Report: Brown is an excellent defensive catcher with an exceptionally strong arm. Works well with the pitchers and calls a solid game. Decent bat, gap power and average to above average plate discipline. Somewhat of a streaky hitter."

The question on Brown has been whether he'll be able to hit enough to remain in an MLB lineup. His numbers from the AFL '07 forward should be an encouragement (though they guarantee nothing).

If there is a similar story among the Sox catching prospects it's Wagner who is a more offensive minded receiver. His bat has suffered a little as he's concentrated on defense this year and throwing out 46% of potential base stealers suggests he's "catching on" (lame pun intended).

The Sox catching is better than most suggest, IMO. These are not guys who are going to be on all star teams but have the potential to be steady catchers and certainly worthy of backing up 'Tek for a couple of years (assuming a short extension obviously).

After that? Who knows. Lavarnway and/or Federowicz could make quick progress. Exposito could take off. It's hard to see all these guys three years down the line but Lavarnway, at the moment, seems to have the skill set to turn some heads.

Osiagledknarf
08-04-2008, 09:22 AM
Theo already tried to get CC this year. Cleveland asked for a little too much. This time no prospects.
Beckett has NOTHING to do with signing another player. Beckett has FAR from earned a raise IMO. He is up and down. He was HAPPY with his last contract and the RS will watch him closely before giving him a 20mil per deal. CC won't get 20mil either. Unless its the NYY.

They don't care. Ortiz made less than Manny too!

If the players see management improving their team most guys welcome the deals. CC would help Beckett get more , that's if Beckett earns it.

Right now today, CC is pitching better than Beckett. Where in your book does it say because you weigh 300lbs you are going to get hurt? fallacy......CC in Boston would be used much more judiciously, FACT.

Salty has been discussed so many times its borderline psycho. We DON'T want him. I'm not saying they don't find a catcher for the future because they will. They will also find a few BP arms.

They will be approx. 75 mil under payroll to start next year. To even suggest nothing happens beyond a catcher is well ridiculous.

I am not in Theo's head though.

We will sign a big name via trade or FA guaranteed, if ,we don't make the playoffs this year. If we do and get swept we still sign a big name.

If we win the WS again, they probably just tweak it.

So...Beckett's obvious and repeated post-season heroics don't get him any credit in your opinion? We got to the World Series last year on Beckett's back. He's a proven and consistent post-season winner. He's won 60 games since 2005. I do not expect Sabathia to pitch the way he is now in the NL Central in the AL East next year, I think that's a serious miscalculation. Whether Beckett has earned a raise or not, which we obviously disagree on, is a mute point. The market forces will dictate that a pitcher of Beckett's quality and record go at that price. And, the very fact that the Yankees will be involved in talks for Sabathia pretty much guarantees someone is going to have to pony up and pay Santana-like money...or at least Zito-like money...to land Sabathia. And of course the players care about contracts...it's why A-Rod is such a pariah and why even Lowell and the Red Sox haggled over dollars and years last off-season. They care...Beckett cares...Sabathia cares. They're agents certainly care. Also, of course Beckett has something to do with signing other players, in the same way everyone is talking about how we can sign this guy or that guy now because of all the money we are saving from trading Manny. Just because we CAN go over the luxury tax threshhold doesn't mean we MUST. We lose millions of dollars that way. So, how much you pay one player does effect what other players you bring in or bring back...that's just business economics. As for Theo already trying for Sabathia...again, more than likely just go drive the price up for the Yankees. Theo is notorious for that.

The part in my book that suggests 300 pound guys run into injuries as they get older is listed under "anatomy" and "every heavy ballplayer's health history." It's a fairly common phenomenon...heavier players age poorly, and injuries are more common. All I am saying...it's something to take into consideration.

I cited Saltalamacchia as an example, not a definite target. However, if the Sox can get a decent deal on him...they still don't want him? Who else is out there that's so much better? It's not that absurd, and certainly not "psycho." He's very young, good, and getting better. It's not a terrible option. However, I definitely agree bullpen names come and go...there will be something done on that front.

Everyone's obsessed with big names...what's the necessity? Why spend the money just because you can. I'd rather spend it intelligently than spend it just because the name would be cool to pencil in the lineup. Besides...the only place where you would even have room for one of those "big names" is in the rotation...and again...either none of the primo guys are available (their organizations won't move them) or the cost would be prohibitive considering the high regard in which the prospects are held. Do you really want to give up, say...Bowden, Masterson, and Lowrie for Roy Oswalt? Aaron Cook? Of course not. And the guys you WOULD give them up for...Lincecum, Webb, Hamels, Hernandez, etc...are not available, their organizations won't move them. So what big name are we left with? None. Besides all that, it's very debatable whether or not we even need another "big name" in the rotation.

So, again...I understand your points but respectfully...though emphatically...disagree. There's no logical positional "big name" out there for the Red Sox, and the arguments for a "big name" in the rotation are shaky. Just my thoughts.

Osiagledknarf
08-04-2008, 09:36 AM
Sheets has been healthy a lot more than most people think. The injuries that knocked him out last year were freak injuries -- got hit with ball iirc. His injury history has been related to other things and I think the Sox could manage around that just as they have with Papelbon (and wise management has done with him lately).


Welcome to PSD. Interesting the way to have completely differing opinions on the relative values of Putz and K-Rod. You dismiss Putz because he pitches in a "weak division" yet K-Rod "is going to destroy the market" pitching in the same division. How exactly does that work?

Putz is not having a great year, but look at his career splits:


G GS W L SV CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA
vs. BAL 18 0 2 1 9 0 0 19.1 12 6 6 1 3 17 2.79 0.78 .179
vs. NYY 19 0 0 1 6 0 0 19.2 16 7 7 3 4 17 3.20 1.02 .219
vs. TB 10 0 1 0 7 0 0 11.2 4 3 3 1 4 12 2.31 0.69 .105
vs. TOR 18 0 1 0 7 0 0 17.0 17 3 3 1 6 10 1.59 1.35 .262
vs. LAA 28 0 2 3 5 0 0 27.0 31 15 15 3 8 27 5.00 1.44 .295
vs. CWS 18 0 0 0 6 0 0 18.0 8 2 2 1 10 15 1.00 1.00 .140
vs. CLE 18 0 2 1 4 0 0 20.1 21 7 6 3 7 27 2.66 1.38 .269


Overall those are some pretty good lines against important opponents.

Do the Sox sign him (or K-Rod)? Unlikely. Both those guys want to go where they can be the closer. It's got less to do with whether the Sox would be duplicating than it does for what they want both in therms of money and career.


Off topic: Pavano had a start this past weekend... against Greenville! 3IP, 5H, 1ER, 2K. Only his second start back.






Technically he's not a free agent until LAA declines his option, but at the money it's a forgone conclusion.



What's the 'similar story' on Brown? He's always been a defensive catcher.

"Scouting Report: Brown is an excellent defensive catcher with an exceptionally strong arm. Works well with the pitchers and calls a solid game. Decent bat, gap power and average to above average plate discipline. Somewhat of a streaky hitter."

The question on Brown has been whether he'll be able to hit enough to remain in an MLB lineup. His numbers from the AFL '07 forward should be an encouragement (though they guarantee nothing).

If there is a similar story among the Sox catching prospects it's Wagner who is a more offensive minded receiver. His bat has suffered a little as he's concentrated on defense this year and throwing out 46% of potential base stealers suggests he's "catching on" (lame pun intended).

The Sox catching is better than most suggest, IMO. These are not guys who are going to be on all star teams but have the potential to be steady catchers and certainly worthy of backing up 'Tek for a couple of years (assuming a short extension obviously).

After that? Who knows. Lavarnway and/or Federowicz could make quick progress. Exposito could take off. It's hard to see all these guys three years down the line but Lavarnway, at the moment, seems to have the skill set to turn some heads.

Good points all...let me just explain myself.

I do think it is a weak division. But, I think we all know that doesn't come into play with free agent marketing. I cited the relative weakness of the AL West as something the Sox should consider when evaluating relief pitchers, not as a limit on what free agents are going to ask for. K-Rod is putting up ridiculous numbers...so that's how that works. And sure, Putz isn't have a god-awful year, and I am not dismissing him at all...what I am suggesting is that there are probably more cost-effective, similar options out there. That's all. Besides, I don't think Putz is a free agent, and I would be opposed to trading for him since the asking price would be too high.

As for the similar story with Brown vs. Kottaras, you're right...I didn't clarify. I simply meant that there's a lack of offensive/defensive balance...not that they are similarly skilled...the certainly have different skill sets. I was simply speaking to what I perceive as a difficulty ahead in finding someone to replace Varitek...though, it'd be tough to hit worse than Varitek right now anyway...we'll see. So I hope that clarifies things!

Thanks for the Welcome to PSD...this is all really cool. I'm having a blast and it's great to see other people's perspectives!

RedSoxtober
08-04-2008, 09:47 AM
Good points all...let me just explain myself.

I do think it is a weak division. But, I think we all know that doesn't come into play with free agent marketing. I cited the relative weakness of the AL West as something the Sox should consider when evaluating relief pitchers, not as a limit on what free agents are going to ask for. K-Rod is putting up ridiculous numbers...so that's how that works. And sure, Putz isn't have a god-awful year, and I am not dismissing him at all...what I am suggesting is that there are probably more cost-effective, similar options out there. That's all. Besides, I don't think Putz is a free agent, and I would be opposed to trading for him since the asking price would be too high.

You're right about Putz. For some reason I was thinking he was in his option year this year, but I must have been remembering him as going into his final aribtration year and thinking he'd be too expensive for the Ms. They signed him over the offseason to a short deal ($11M/2yrs including a $1.5M signing bonus, guaranteed $1M buyout of a $8.6M option year in 2010).

With that perspective, Putz is not worth trading for when there are other good relief candidates on the market. The only thing that worries me is that the current FO has a horrible track record when it comes to picking relievers.

Osiagledknarf
08-04-2008, 09:52 AM
Everything depends solely on how we finish the year. They aren't going to sit on a huge pile of dough some though will go to signing Pedy, youk, Paps.

Papelbon isn't going anywhere. He talks too much. He will jump all over the first contract he sees he isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. RS lock him him up is a guarantee.
Pedroia will also get locked up.
Youkilis too.

CC will be an interesting FA. We freed up money for something beyond locking guys up. JJ Putz is a sure look see.
Him alone replacing Timlin would be a nice deal.

it's the money though ....they will have so much of it burning a hole ...

No way they don't get in on certain guys. CC for sure if like mentioned just to drive the price skyward. Even though that's a overblown point. NYY just spend it....no matter what.
If they want CC they will get him, I agree. CASHman probably won't be back to talk them out of it.

Bay we MUST watch another year to determine his value.

I'm not sold they won't move guys though to open spaces for guys they covet more. Theo gets a hard-0n for a player he is like a attack dog. Think Drew....Think Lugo....

Lugo, Coco could be packaged. Obviously we get a hotdogless bun in return.:p I could easily see Lowrie if he keeps shining back as the everyday SS.

I like him.

I hope they do integrate more and more kids from the farm into the team its more fun. One more tidbit Schilling could be brought back late next year. Don't be surprised. I'd prefer he went away though.

I think we essentially see eye-to-eye.

I'll take that hot dog-less bun for Lugo in a heartbeat, provided whoever takes Lugo pays the rest of his contract. Deal. We agree on Bay. We agree on Lowrie. We still disagree on Putz.

As for locking guys up...I'd love to. But Ellsbury is a Boras client...isn't Papelbon too? It's a good bet they're going to push the market...so we'll see.

We definitely agree on Schilling...please...go...how about we get those hot dogs instead?

redsox1918
08-04-2008, 10:23 AM
just a newbies thought...love everybodies input here but trade coco to the rangers for 1 of the catchers, trade lugo for a case of balls and 2 bats, and SIGN Orlando Cabera (he said he doesn't want to stay in chicago) all he costs is Cash and jed is the middle infielder.

P.S. we will not sign C.C. because the Brewers will run in into the ground can you say Damaged Goods!!!!!!!!

sboyajian
08-04-2008, 11:17 AM
just a newbies thought...love everybodies input here but trade coco to the rangers for 1 of the catchers, trade lugo for a case of balls and 2 bats, and SIGN Orlando Cabera (he said he doesn't want to stay in chicago) all he costs is Cash and jed is the middle infielder.

P.S. we will not sign C.C. because the Brewers will run in into the ground can you say Damaged Goods!!!!!!!!
It's much easier to find a good defensive outfielder with a mediocre bat than a good catcher. Coco will not go for a good catcher straight up.

I see no need to bring back ocab.. I like Jed where he is. Leave him there.

It would be easier to just make Lugo .. "disappear"...

CC will be fine.. he's an ox and he's pitching within his own limitations.. he's playing to win right now and not so concerned with contract.. he knows that will come.

Tragedy
08-04-2008, 11:23 AM
I see no need to bring back ocab.. I like Jed where he is. Leave him there.

It would be easier to just make Lugo .. "disappear"...
I agree completely. The Red Sox for a while now have been on the mend on if Lowrie is really a solid everyday SS. He's proving right now that he can handle it both with the stick, the glove, and on the basepaths. If the Red Sox are smart (They are), they'll do whatever they can to send Lugo shipping to another team (Lugo to another team = He'll be a .330 hitter next year, of course).

tonyd3b54
08-04-2008, 12:02 PM
i dont get y some people are down on furcal...so what he injured his back injuries happen...hardly any1 goes there whole career without getting hurt.... furcal has shown through out his career that he can stay healthy... he is a huge upgrade at a position of need and he is a leadoff hitter another thing we could use...its not like were signing him to a 6 year contract... ic ould see a 3 year deal working out very well....

BRADY4MVP
08-04-2008, 12:04 PM
I like Lowrie a lot too, but I think that the Sox should go after FURCAL. his speed at the top of the lineup would be insane. Hit him 1, pedroia 2. Plus his defense is solid, especially with his cannon of an arm. keep lowrie as the alex cora/ everywhere utility guy. give him starts at 3rd, ss, 2nd so everyone stays rested.

plus that puts jacoby down in the order, thus giving us speed throughout. i've always liked teams that can manufacture runs i.e. 1st to 3rd on the basepaths over teams that just swing for the fences. I think Furcal would give us a nice balance.

sboyajian
08-04-2008, 12:30 PM
Lowrie has more talent than a backup guy and it's going to cost him to get a top notch SS.. that being said, I don't see the benefit of trading Jed for Fucal. His current season is the only season in which he is on par to be better than Jed is right now.

The ceiling on Jed as he continues to improve is much higher than Furcal. He is young, cheap, and talented. That is Dustin Pedroia all over again.

Towelie
08-04-2008, 12:32 PM
Furcal is a FA this offseason.

RedSoxtober
08-04-2008, 01:58 PM
just a newbies thought...love everybodies input here but trade coco to the rangers for 1 of the catchers, trade lugo for a case of balls and 2 bats, and SIGN Orlando Cabera (he said he doesn't want to stay in chicago) all he costs is Cash and jed is the middle infielder.

P.S. we will not sign C.C. because the Brewers will run in into the ground can you say Damaged Goods!!!!!!!!

We passed on the chance to trade Coco when we moved Moss. We really don't have anyone to fill the 4th OF spot if Coco goes, not anyone I'd be comfortable with should one of the regulars go down anyway.

RedSoxtober
08-04-2008, 02:04 PM
i dont get y some people are down on furcal...so what he injured his back injuries happen...hardly any1 goes there whole career without getting hurt.... furcal has shown through out his career that he can stay healthy... he is a huge upgrade at a position of need and he is a leadoff hitter another thing we could use...its not like were signing him to a 6 year contract... ic ould see a 3 year deal working out very well....

I don't see anyone really down on Furcal as much as disagreeing whether he's a good sign in the off season. Big difference.

Regardless, if they were down on him they'd point out that he started 2007 on the DL, his numbers were way down for the rest of the season, and now he's basically missed all of 2008 as well. Perhaps injuries are the new Furcal.

The other observation is that it's often good baseball business to take long looks at guys the Braves let walk.

quiksilver2491
08-04-2008, 02:12 PM
Furcal is pretty much garbage anyways. If your complaining about Lugo getting 9 mil then why on Earth would you want to take on Furcal for 13 mil? The time he played this year was the only really productive numbers he has put up in his entire career, his defense is good and he has a rocket arm but historically his offense is below par.

youkilisallstar
08-04-2008, 06:20 PM
I think if Lowrie continues to produce we tarde Lugo for some bullpen help I like this kid, I think he has a future with the team. Lugo's by far not the worst Boston player ever but I like Lowrie better.

LAFord
08-05-2008, 05:43 AM
Furcal is pretty much garbage anyways. If your complaining about Lugo getting 9 mil then why on Earth would you want to take on Furcal for 13 mil? The time he played this year was the only really productive numbers he has put up in his entire career, his defense is good and he has a rocket arm but historically his offense is below par.
Garbage? Offense below par? Only production was this year?

His line from '06= AVG.300/OBP.369/SLG.445/OPS.814 -2B=32, 3B=9, HR=15, RBI=63, SB=37

I'll take garbage like that anytime.

lil'papi
08-05-2008, 10:29 AM
So...Beckett's obvious and repeated post-season heroics don't get him any credit in your opinion? We got to the World Series last year on Beckett's back. He's a proven and consistent post-season winner. He's won 60 games since 2005. I do not expect Sabathia to pitch the way he is now in the NL Central in the AL East next year, I think that's a serious miscalculation. Whether Beckett has earned a raise or not, which we obviously disagree on, is a mute point. The market forces will dictate that a pitcher of Beckett's quality and record go at that price. And, the very fact that the Yankees will be involved in talks for Sabathia pretty much guarantees someone is going to have to pony up and pay Santana-like money...or at least Zito-like money...to land Sabathia. And of course the players care about contracts...it's why A-Rod is such a pariah and why even Lowell and the Red Sox haggled over dollars and years last off-season. They care...Beckett cares...Sabathia cares. They're agents certainly care. Also, of course Beckett has something to do with signing other players, in the same way everyone is talking about how we can sign this guy or that guy now because of all the money we are saving from trading Manny. Just because we CAN go over the luxury tax threshhold doesn't mean we MUST. We lose millions of dollars that way. So, how much you pay one player does effect what other players you bring in or bring back...that's just business economics. As for Theo already trying for Sabathia...again, more than likely just go drive the price up for the Yankees. Theo is notorious for that.

Beckett has already gone on record as not caring about other peoples money. He was VERY happy with his contract. CC gets what the market bares this year no way to project it. And maybe the ZITO deal hurts him. I can only go by what came out of his mouth. Beckett will get paid going forward. His post season stats will be his agents ammo the team will counter with so-so regular seasons. First year was so-so this year is sandwiched by a good year. Not projectable yet , his value at the end of his deal. Could be huge, could be buh-bye.



The part in my book that suggests 300 pound guys run into injuries as they get older is listed under "anatomy" and "every heavy ballplayer's health history." It's a fairly common phenomenon...heavier players age poorly, and injuries are more common. All I am saying...it's something to take into consideration.

No its not , EVERY player is different. I've seen huge people play in the NFL a long time. Nothing makes him more vulnerable at his current age. Innings maybe...I've said it once he won't be pitching 250 innings here. No way. They already went after him! Why wouldn't they now? 300lbs and 6'7" .....maybe he can go to API. :p

The RS always do serious medical evaluations on guys.

I cited Saltalamacchia as an example, not a definite target. However, if the Sox can get a decent deal on him...they still don't want him? Who else is out there that's so much better? It's not that absurd, and certainly not "psycho." He's very young, good, and getting better. It's not a terrible option. However, I definitely agree bullpen names come and go...there will be something done on that front.

I know we discussed him so many times , but when we look at his numbers nothing jumps out. We have guys in the system that could potentially do what he does and maybe with better defense.

Everyone's obsessed with big names Not true RS need a star losing Manny will make them search for another and the money , remember the money.


...what's the necessity? Why spend the money just because you can. I'd rather spend it intelligently than spend it just because the name would be cool to pencil in the lineup. Besides...the only place where you would even have room for one of those "big names" is in the rotation...and again...either none of the primo guys are available (their organizations won't move them) or the cost would be prohibitive considering the high regard in which the prospects are held. Do you really want to give up, say...Bowden, Masterson, and Lowrie for Roy Oswalt? Aaron Cook? Of course not. And the guys you WOULD give them up for...Lincecum, Webb, Hamels, Hernandez, etc...are not available, their organizations won't move them. So what big name are we left with? None. Besides all that, it's very debatable whether or not we even need another "big name" in the rotation.

CC Sabathia is available, so is Teixera....and JJ Putz why bring up all these other folks. RS have already shown serious interest in all three.

It's about a stopper and a chance to have greatness on your team, an example. Think Schilling here and Pedro. Beckett end of season will help decide if he is the one. right now Beckett isn't a GREAT pitcher. As for last years playoffs he was. You must get there though?

So, again...I understand your points but respectfully...though emphatically...disagree. There's no logical positional "big name" out there for the Red Sox, and the arguments for a "big name" in the rotation are shaky. Just my thoughts.

So if Jason Bay sucks it up they will stand pat, same with Beckett and Coco and Drew , Lugo? The way this season plays out will dictate how hard they go after a BIGNAME. You really think the fan base would be happy?

Teixera they covet. Holliday name also keeps popping up.

I agree with alot of what you said. The big named star, every big market team needs to have to fill chauffeurs.

It's not so much the big name as keeping the fan base happy. If they let CC go to NYY or if Teixera goes there or somehow Holliday ends up there do you think RS nation will be ok with it.

Losing Manny cemented something will happen. Me personally I prefer a JJ Putz and somehow get a more potent bat.

Big names can be traded for too.

Osiagledknarf
08-06-2008, 06:29 AM
To sum it up:

We disagree on Beckett. I think I am more impressed with him than you are. I just don't think winning 61 games in the last 3 and a half years is "so-so." I am certainly not poo-pooing Sabathia at all, because if you compare his stats to Becketts...they're very similar. I just love a right handed power pitcher at the top of a rotation in fenway. It's okay, disagreeing on talent evaluations is ridiculously fun.

We disagree on how much players care about contract status. I have read all the things Beckett has said about his contract. I understand and sympathize with your points. I'm sure we agree that there's alot more going on than just what players say to the media. I certainly wouldn't rule out the possibility of Beckett giving the Sox a hometown discount of some sort, but it's never something you can rely on. I think there is enough evidence out there to strongly suggest that contract status has become a big part of the culture among the players in the Major Leagues, and competitive, edgy Beckett is no exception. I don't think it's a Manny Ramirez situation with him, but there's no reason for him not to pursue market value...and given his numbers, age, and what comparable pitchers get, he's underpaid. Obviously, I'm always really concerned with payroll and economics, so in my view the relative money and contract expenditure becomes a factor in who you get or bring back. I think we disagree on that. But to my thinking, I hold off on Sabathia in lieu of Beckett. If you can get Sabathia for $10-$15 million a year, then hell go for it. You can't though.

I certainly think you can indeed project with, some reasonable accuracy, what the market will dictacte for CC this offseason. Plug in Sabathia's numbers, what other comparable pitchers have got in recent years, and the sparcity of pitching free agents into the calculus and you get a decent idea.

The weight thing...I'm still big on it. Sabathia went on the DL in 2006 with a muscle injury in his midsection. Of course weight was a factor, when you have all that weight pulling against muscle and joint movement, especially the way a pitcher moves, it's an issue. As he gets older, it will only become more of an issue. It's different in the NFL where the 300 pound guys essential plant, block, and push. And even then you get alot of those linemen with joint and tendon issues simply because of the pressure the weight puts on their body. There's alot more movement in pitching, and it wears the heavier guys down. Colon is another example. Hideki Irabu was another. Fernando Valenzuela another. There's plenty others. I know CC's not going to pitch 250 innings here, but if he doesn't pitch at least 190, what's the point? It's still alot of innings, it still wears down, I'm still convinced weight is an important factor. So is the sabremetric-obsessed front office on Yawkey Way. I think, again, we just simply disagree here.

Saltalamacchia...eh, whatever. Haha. Like I said, I threw him out there as an example. Kurt Suzuki would be a good grab. I'm sure there are others, and even more in our own system, I just don't want to spend $16 million per on Brian McCann in a couple years.

I don't agree that big market teams need big names on them. Look at that Yankees team that won 4 straight in the late 90's. I think the goal of every team should be a balanced, strong roster that wins games and in turn brings in fans. It should not be a big name roster that brings in fans and hopes to win games. Besides that...Ortiz, Papelbon, Beckett, Matsuzaka, and Drew are all brand name players...and so is Bay. I understand the available money, but it's not "extra" money. I'm big on trying to stay under the luxury tax, because I see it as wasted money.

J.J. Putz is not available via free agency for another two years, and his cost in a trade would be prohibitive. I think I layed out my case against C.C. There's nowhere to put Teixeira. That's why I brought up the other names because, presumably, if you want a big name that's where you'd turn when Putz, CC, and Teixeira don't make sense for various reasons. I know the Sox seem to have shown interest in those three, but I always question how seriously they are interested when big name players are involved and the Yankees are interested too. It's an economic ploy in alot of cases...drive up the price for the Yankees, which has worked in alot of instances in keeping players like Santana off their roster, and we improve our comparative advantage. Like I said, Economics 101. You know Theo is the first aboard that train of thought.

As far as the fan base being happy with what Theo does...Theo's never cared about that. He traded Nomar. He let Pedro walk. He let Orlando Cabrera walk. He brought in David Wells. I think he's concerned more with objective indexes than how the fan base reacts because he understands the fans would rather be pissed in April and ecstatic in October than the other way around. With the parity in baseball right now, it's going to be impossible to win 120 games for a while...you really only need like, 95 to be serious. So, greatness is relative. It always comes down to the bullpen so I think you'll see some moves there.

Big names can certainly be traded for, absolutely. I just don't get where you would put anyone else. There's nowhere to put Teixeira. Why would you trade Youkilis, who puts up very similar numbers and defense...with more positional versatility...for much less money? The only reason I can think of is because Teixeira's name jumps at you more. By all obective indications, there's no reason to go after Teixeira. You have Matt Holliday already, you're just calling him Jason Bay. They're the same player and same contract. Plus the Rockies would require an entire minor league pitching staff to move him A straight Bay for Holliday trade is nonsensical...if the Rockies weren't going to keep Holliday they wouldn't keep Bay, so it's not in their interest. Drew's contract makes him hard to move, moving Crisp doesn't free up a starting position anyway, and if you move Lugo you have Lowrie to step in as the starter. There's absolutely nowhere to put a new brand name player.

Again, as for needing that brand name player to fill the coffers, (You meant coffers, right? Not chauffeurs? Or am I like, totally confused?) we have them already...we have marquee players aplenty. Do you see any difference in the intensity of the fans since Manny left? I don't. I don't think losing Manny cemented anything but a different organizational approach. I don't see the sense in shedding one huge contract JUST to go out and pick up another one. It doesn't make sense. Keeping that extra money allows for alot of versatility and opportunity during the 2009 season and beyond.

Tankjeep
08-06-2008, 06:54 AM
^that sure was a mouthful.

lil'papi
08-06-2008, 07:56 AM
I want to answer ..but I'm afraid the response will be of biblical scroll proportions.

Seattle is shopping Putz, so what , talent cost money or prospects. He is what the doctor ordered.

You can't just skip over the money they will have.

I listened intently to Theo's interview yesterday on EEI. He mentioned a few things that caught my attention.
One Ortiz they must prepare for him leaving at some point. hint -hint....
I need to think to remember the others after reading your post my capacity to think is skewed for a few minutes. :D

RS nation needs to be satisfied they KNOW that. IF they WIN this year , lesser deals are made.
IF they don't ~MARK MY WORDS~ they will make a splash or two. ie Tex, CC, holliday, putz or some guy we haven't thought of......;)

Even IF they win they will spend the money.

Respectfully.......

Osiagledknarf
08-06-2008, 08:09 AM
Man...I'm catching alot of respect for long posts, haha. I think I just like to be thorough. I guess my argument isn't catching on. Ah well, we disagree. It'll be interesting to see...is there anyway we can check back on this in December-January to see who was right?

lil'papi
08-06-2008, 08:40 AM
There is no right or wrong. That's the point. If they lose this year next year they spend. If they win this year then they spend less.
They could do it in a million ways. What if the lost a CC to NYY and Tex to NYY how would I be wrong? They can't just get anyone they want.
I just gave guys they covet.

We agree on almost every aspect except mines based on winning and losing this year. They can't sit on that pile of loot and raise ticket prices and not make the playoffs.

think about it.......it's political suicide.;)

For the first time since I can remember we have some options. We have a strong farm system, lots of cash and we are still winning. Best of all we have a nice mixture.

You base yours on a couple minor deals and we sit on the loot. You'd be a lousy pirate.....:smoking:

win-win........win. :p

don't worry I'll remember.....

I'm still wanting to talk to the guy that said Joba won't get hurt. I mentioned flame throwers almost always do when they are young/zealous. He wrote a post longer than the dead sea scrolls.;)

I win....but he was a yankee fan....so it meant more.

Osiagledknarf
08-06-2008, 08:52 AM
I want to answer ..but I'm afraid the response will be of biblical scroll proportions.

Seattle is shopping Putz, so what , talent cost money or prospects. He is what the doctor ordered.

You can't just skip over the money they will have.

I listened intently to Theo's interview yesterday on EEI. He mentioned a few things that caught my attention.
One Ortiz they must prepare for him leaving at some point. hint -hint....
I need to think to remember the others after reading your post my capacity to think is skewed for a few minutes. :D

RS nation needs to be satisfied they KNOW that. IF they WIN this year , lesser deals are made.
IF they don't ~MARK MY WORDS~ they will make a splash or two. ie Tex, CC, holliday, putz or some guy we haven't thought of......;)

Even IF they win they will spend the money.

Respectfully.......

No one's buying my C.C. argument, huh? Haha. Oh well...we'll see.

Putz...all right, I'll go with it, if you can get him for two years and he's fine with setting up, at least enough that he won't be tangibly unhappy, then go for it. Who do you want to give up for him? Who is Seattle going to want for him...especially since they're about to go into a major rebuilding phase?

I definitely think we need to look beyond Ortiz...but that doesn't change the fact that he's still on the roster and there's no other place to put another big bat...unless you move Ortiz, and I am probably going to hell for even thinking that. So, what would you do to create that roster spot? Where would you put the new guy? I am sure Theo DID hint at moving on after Ortiz...but he probably didn't mean in 2009.

People seem fixated on Holliday...okay. What do you do with Bay if you want to go out and get Holliday? Maybe I'm missing something.

Red Sox Nation does need to be happy...and they do know that. I just don't think they think that entails going out and getting a big name just because they're on the market when you have comparable talent already on your roster. Holliday=Bay. Teixeira=Youkilis. Do you really wanna send Lowell packing to bring in Teixeira? Logically, I can buy that move because Teixeira is younger and hits better...emotionally, that'd be a tough ticket to punch. Theo has said many times he's not interested in making a deal JUST for the sake of making a deal...which is what Teixeira and Holliday would be. I'm sure you're not convinced, haha. I just don't see the sense in it.

Osiagledknarf
08-06-2008, 09:12 AM
There is no right or wrong. That's the point. If they lose this year next year they spend. If they win this year then they spend less.
They could do it in a million ways. What if the lost a CC to NYY and Tex to NYY how would I be wrong? They can't just get anyone they want.
I just gave guys they covet.

We agree on almost every aspect except mines based on winning and losing this year. They can't sit on that pile of loot and raise ticket prices and not make the playoffs.

think about it.......it's political suicide.;)

For the first time since I can remember we have some options. We have a strong farm system, lots of cash and we are still winning. Best of all we have a nice mixture.

You base yours on a couple minor deals and we sit on the loot. You'd be a lousy pirate.....:smoking:

win-win........win. :p

don't worry I'll remember.....

I'm still wanting to talk to the guy that said Joba won't get hurt. I mentioned flame throwers almost always do when they are young/zealous. He wrote a post longer than the dead sea scrolls.;)

I win....but he was a yankee fan....so it meant more.

I definitely want to win this year...I want to win next year too though. Haha. I'd hate to see Teixeira or Sabathia in Yankees uniforms...but realistically we can't just go out and get every good player just to keep them off the Yankees. Teixeira scares me...he plays first, the Yankees will need a first basemen, the Yankees have a higher GDP than Belgium. Yikes.

They raised ticket prices after the 2006 disaster. No one stopped going...you and I are still sitting at work excitedly blogging away about the Sox...they still sellout. They can sit on that money just fine, haha...we just disagree about whether or not they would.

I think I am just really happy with the positional roster. Pitching you can always improve...but position wise, unless you want to be cutthroat and dump Ortiz or Lowell to make room for Teixeira, I like the positional roster.

Good call on Joba...what a stupid decision it was to move him to the rotation mid-season. I mean, mind boggling. That's an example of a "win now" mentality really coming back to bite you. The Yankees are good example of what I don't want the Sox to become...gross mismanagement of prospects (plus apparently they make their kids kickback their signing bonuses...what?!?!), huge contracts that become albatrosses, and tearing down a national monument just because you want a new park. Lame.