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View Full Version : Why didn't we get Nady?



BostonFan 53
08-01-2008, 01:53 AM
I probably won't be greeted too nicely, but i'll give it a try anyway.

The Yankees got Nady pretty cheap, plus a good reliever.

We could have traded a few 'specs for Nady and Marte.
Then Swung Manny for a few prospects from LA.

Although Nady isn't as good as Bay, we also add a good reliever, something we needed.

Nickday
08-01-2008, 02:37 AM
we didn't get nady, because we didn't need another backup outfielder

Tragedy
08-01-2008, 09:47 AM
Bay > Nady.

My only regret was not picking up a BP arm. Oh well.

homie564
08-01-2008, 10:54 AM
more like bay >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nady lol Bay>>>>>>Mclouth forr gods sake lol we got a great outfielder

yaowowrocket11
08-01-2008, 10:57 AM
We got a good deal. Bay is the best outfielder that was available, and wouldn't cost us our whole farm system. Like Tragedy, it's a shame Theo wasn't able to swing a deal to get a solid reliever like Mahay.

ZHawk1123
08-01-2008, 11:32 AM
We got a good deal. Bay is the best outfielder that was available, and wouldn't cost us our whole farm system. Like Tragedy, it's a shame Theo wasn't able to swing a deal to get a solid reliever like Mahay.

I expect good things from Bay hitting in Fenway... AVG will probably go up with that wall out there...

PNC isn't a good hitters park... And he still had 22 HR and 64 RBI... I am excited to see what he'll do...

BoSox2212
08-01-2008, 11:56 AM
I expect good things from Bay hitting in Fenway... AVG will probably go up with that wall out there...

PNC isn't a good hitters park... And he still had 22 HR and 64 RBI... I am excited to see what he'll do...

I completely agree. People are talking about Bay like he is a second rate outfielder. You have to realize Bay has put up consistantly great numbers in his short career (25+ HR, 80+ RBI) and is a two-time allstar, all while playing in a crappy lineup. We got a hell of a player from the trade, and I expect great things from him at Fenway. Also, I think there is no question he should be in the 3/4 spot in the lineup. He is not a 6/7 hitter, just look at his stats, consistantly better than youk, lowell, and drew. We got a damn good player.

i am bob
08-01-2008, 12:00 PM
Bay is better than Nady by far. The arm would've helped but Bay is a very nice addition.

ZHawk1123
08-01-2008, 12:08 PM
I completely agree. People are talking about Bay like he is a second rate outfielder. You have to realize Bay has put up consistantly great numbers in his short career (25+ HR, 80+ RBI) and is a two-time allstar, all while playing in a crappy lineup. We got a hell of a player from the trade, and I expect great things from him at Fenway. Also, I think there is no question he should be in the 3/4 spot in the lineup. He is not a 6/7 hitter, just look at his stats, consistantly better than youk, lowell, and drew. We got a damn good player.

Totally agree... my ideal lineup:

Pedroia
Drew
Bay
Papi
Youk
Lowell
VTek
Lowrie
Ellsbury

Nickday
08-01-2008, 12:13 PM
no way

Ellsbury
Pedroia
Drew/Bay/Ortiz(if he still wants to hit 3rd)
Ortiz/Bay(if Ortiz would rather hit 3rd)
Bay/Drew
Lowell
Youk
Tek
Lowrie

that line up right there, wins the world series in an easy sweep

ZHawk1123
08-01-2008, 12:19 PM
no way

Ellsbury
Pedroia
Drew/Bay/Ortiz(if he still wants to hit 3rd)
Ortiz/Bay(if Ortiz would rather hit 3rd)
Bay/Drew
Lowell
Youk
Tek
Lowrie

that line up right there, wins the world series in an easy sweep

Hey dude... I don't know if you've realized but Ellsbury has been TERRIBLE lately... The Sox moved him down in the order for a reason...

I agree with that lineup if Ells is on... But he isn't... So he is last for now...

Dirty Dirk41
08-01-2008, 12:26 PM
Ellsbury
Pedroia
Drew\
Ortiz
Bay
Lowell
Youk
Varitek
Lowrie


thats what i want to see. Drew was a beast in the 3 hole. Bay after ortiz would be nice. and we still have LOWELL AND YOUK AFTER THAT.

p.s-i kno people might hate drew an ortiz at 3/4 both being left hitters. but they both hit righters and lefties good an make millions. they can do it

RedSoxtober
08-01-2008, 12:30 PM
Ellsbury
Pedroia
Drew\
Ortiz
Bay
Lowell
Youk
Varitek
Lowrie


thats what i want to see. Drew was a beast in the 3 hole. Bay after ortiz would be nice. and we still have LOWELL AND YOUK AFTER THAT.

p.s-i kno people might hate drew an ortiz at 3/4 both being left hitters. but they both hit righters and lefties good an make millions. they can do it

1. Ortiz is much more comfortable at #3. He won when Manny wanted the #3 hole even though the numbers were better with Manny third.

2. Drew and Ortiz, no matter which order they bat in, is a horrible idea. Both have less than stellar numbers against LHP and you're just begging for a matchup lefty to shut down the heart of the order.

Dirty Dirk41
08-01-2008, 12:37 PM
1. Ortiz is much more comfortable at #3. He won when Manny wanted the #3 hole even though the numbers were better with Manny third.

2. Drew and Ortiz, no matter which order they bat in, is a horrible idea. Both have less than stellar numbers against LHP and you're just begging for a matchup lefty to shut down the heart of the order.


Idont care how comfortable he is...its like like u put em fourth he stops hitting. we need him hitting fourth.

Drew and ortiz back t back would be fine. trust me. god i hope it happens

goldglove212
08-01-2008, 12:54 PM
as long as bay puts up respectable numbers were gonna be fine even without manny we have a potent lineup and bays having a good year its not too farfetched to say he finishes with 35hrs and 100rbis hes already got 22hrs and 64rbis

RedSoxtober
08-01-2008, 01:02 PM
Idont care how comfortable he is...its like like u put em fourth he stops hitting. we need him hitting fourth.

Drew and ortiz back t back would be fine. trust me. god i hope it happens

Why do we need him hitting fourth? Because you said so and we should put our trust in you? Even as far back as when Rice was playing it was well known that your best RBI guy should hit third (guess where Jim Ed insisted he bat).

Why would you take the best hitter left on the team and move him out of his comfort zone? Because you think Drew would continue to hit the way he did during his hot streak? Before you keep asserting how great that would be, please explain why his hot streak in June is more relevant than his frigid .221/.361 July during which he mostly batted third.


As for batting them back-to-back, you're just wrong. I'll go with Francona who gets paid to make decisions like this. He's got a preference for L-R-L combinations specifically to avoid matchups destroying the order. There is no doubt we'd get them if we follow your plan.

Ortiz (2008) vs LHP .204/.268/.656
Drew (career) vs LHP .726 OPS

BoSox2212
08-01-2008, 01:13 PM
Why do we need him hitting fourth? Because you said so and we should put our trust in you? Even as far back as when Rice was playing it was well known that your best RBI guy should hit third (guess where Jim Ed insisted he bat).

Why would you take the best hitter left on the team and move him out of his comfort zone? Because you think Drew would continue to hit the way he did during his hot streak? Before you keep asserting how great that would be, please explain why his hot streak in June is more relevant than his frigid .221/.361 July during which he mostly batted third.


As for batting them back-to-back, you're just wrong. I'll go with Francona who gets paid to make decisions like this. He's got a preference for L-R-L combinations specifically to avoid matchups destroying the order. There is no doubt we'd get them if we follow your plan.

Ortiz (2008) vs LHP .204/.268/.656
Drew (career) vs LHP .726 OPS

I would agree with you that we should not put Ortiz and Drew back-to-back. But, on your other point, I believe we can move Ortiz to 4th without losing his RBI opportunities. Putting Drew 2nd, Bay 3rd, Ortiz 4th, and Lowell/Youk 5th/6th will keep protection around Bay so he can thrive while keeping some protection behind Ortiz. Also, it is the best L,R,L,R combination in the middle of the lineup IMO

HereWeGoLUGO
08-01-2008, 01:50 PM
While Bay is definitley a solid player, I have a feeling the Sox F.O. knows they need at least another power bat to this lineup to make up for what Manny has contributed over his tenure with the Sox.

I think the money they saved on exchanging Manny's contract for Bays was a big factor in getting this deal done (not to mention keeping him from the Rays). I could see the Sox going after Texeira in offseason. Futhermore, Bay's contract runs out right as Holliday becomes a free agent, leaving a perfect time to fill that hole long term.

J Russell OAK 2
08-01-2008, 02:22 PM
red sox fans just continue to make me laugh... red sox didnt get nady and yankees didnt get bay cause the yanks offense is 1000% better than the red sox w/o manny... the yanks didnt need bay a 3/4/5 hitter they needed nady a 6/7 hitter whose more expendable (can play all 3 of positions as well as 1b) good arm (dont rele know much bout bays arm) as well as a lefty reliever (even tho we dont need to pitch to papi now we can just walk him) to get out big lefties. and oh yea we gave up 2 nothings, tabata whose been suspended 5 times this year (Manny Jr.) and a pretty good P prospect in mccutchen... thats why bay/nady went where they went

27.. comming to New York this October

Run Gardner Run
08-01-2008, 02:26 PM
Yeah Bay is better than Nady by far

Bay- .282 AVG .375 OBP .519 SLG 135 OPS 22 HR 64 RBI 86/59 SO/BB
Nady- .330 AVG .383 OBP .535 SLG 141 OPS 13 HR 57 RBI 55/25 SO/BB

They are both the same age, but you cant always go by the past, its not like this is a contract year for Nady. No ones to say if Nady will do this again next year, but to say Bay is FAR better than Nady when Bay has only had 1 good year (2005) is kind of wrong. Im not saying Nady is better than Bay because he isnt, but Bay isnt far better than Nady, I would say he is a little better than Nady, but Nady and Marte > Bay

Tragedy
08-01-2008, 02:29 PM
Yeah Bay is better than Nady by far

Bay- .282 AVG .375 OBP .519 SLG 135 OPS 22 HR 64 RBI 86/59 SO/BB
Nady- .330 AVG .383 OBP .535 SLG 141 OPS 13 HR 57 RBI 55/25 SO/BB

They are both the same age, but you cant always go by the past, its not like this is a contract year for Nady. No ones to say if Nady will do this again next year, but to say Bay is FAR better than Nady when Bay has only had 1 good year (2005) is kind of wrong. Im not saying Nady is better than Bay because he isnt, but Bay isnt far better than Nady, I would say he is a little better than Nady, but Nady and Marte > Bay
Jason Bay has a career OPS+ of 130.
Xavier Nady has a career OPS+ of 109. It would be under 100 had it not been for his season so far this year.

I think it's pretty clear who the better hitter is. Comments like that = Homer comments.

J Russell OAK 2
08-01-2008, 02:29 PM
Yea and another thing for the yankees prospective, matsuis gonna be back nady, damon cabrera/gardner maybe abreu well see and austin jackson might be up so if we had bay that woulda confused things even more

Run Gardner Run
08-01-2008, 02:30 PM
Jason Bay has a career OPS+ of 130.
Xavier Nady has a career OPS+ of 109. It would be under 100 had it not been for his season so far this year.

I think it's pretty clear who the better hitter is. Comments like that = Homer comments.

I never said Bay wasnt better than Nady, but far better is untrue. Answer this. RIGHT NOW, who is better?

J Russell OAK 2
08-01-2008, 02:32 PM
08/09 yanks
C Posada
1b Texiera
2b cano
SS Jeter
3b AROD
CF Gadrner/Melky
LF/Rf/DH Damon matsui nady abreu jackson

SP
CC
Joba
Wang
Pettitte
Mussina (questionable)
Hughes/kennedy

Tragedy
08-01-2008, 02:32 PM
I never said Bay wasnt better than Nady, but far better is untrue. Answer this. RIGHT NOW, who is better?
As in, THIS season? I'd probably take Nady. Who is the better baseball player? Clearly Bay's numbers are much better (As I said: The OPS+ is quite a gap).

Tragedy
08-01-2008, 02:33 PM
08/09 yanks
C Posada
1b Texiera
2b cano
SS Jeter
3b AROD
CF Gadrner/Melky
LF/Rf/DH Damon matsui nady abreu jackson

SP
CC
Joba
Wang
Pettitte
Mussina (questionable)
Hughes/kennedy
Why are you telling us the Yankees team for next year..?

Run Gardner Run
08-01-2008, 02:33 PM
08/09 yanks
C Posada
1b Texiera
2b cano
SS Jeter
3b AROD
CF Gadrner/Melky
LF/Rf/DH Damon matsui nady abreu jackson

SP
CC
Joba
Wang
Pettitte
Mussina (questionable)
Hughes/kennedy

Dont get ahead of your self, thats kind of considered baiting. And Jackson wont be up next season, and we dont have CC yet, we dont even know if we'll go after him. Same with Tex too

Run Gardner Run
08-01-2008, 02:34 PM
As in, THIS season? I'd probably take Nady. Who is the better baseball player? Clearly Bay's numbers are much better (As I said: The OPS+ is quite a gap).

Yeah but thats the past. Who is to say Nady is going to go back to that?

J Russell OAK 2
08-01-2008, 02:36 PM
Dont get ahead of your self, thats kind of considered baiting. And Jackson wont be up next season, and we dont have CC yet, we dont even know if we'll go after him. Same with Tex too

Jackson likely wont unless there are injuries next year.. and trust me texiera and CC are gonna be in pinstripes lets be real about something here

Run Gardner Run
08-01-2008, 02:38 PM
Jackson likely wont unless there are injuries next year.. and trust me texiera and CC are gonna be in pinstripes lets be real about something here

Nothing is set in stone. Again, unless your Brian Cashman which I doubt, you dont know what the Yankees are doing.

Tragedy
08-01-2008, 02:38 PM
Yeah but thats the past. Who is to say Nady is going to go back to that?
So then, it's better to take that guy that has had one great half season (Nady) with a career OPS+ of under 100 coming into this season as opposed to a player who has a career OPS+ of 130?

I see where you're coming from then.

Run Gardner Run
08-01-2008, 02:39 PM
But Tragedy, another thing you have to consider, I know you wouldnt have a LFer next year, I understand that, but Bay is trying to replace Manny, Nady is replacing Hideki Matsui. I would say Manny is FAR better than Matsui. Now if we traded Arod for Nady, then that would probably be the same as the issue your in right now

Tragedy
08-01-2008, 02:43 PM
But Tragedy, another thing you have to consider, I know you wouldnt have a LFer next year, I understand that, but Bay is trying to replace Manny, Nady is replacing Hideki Matsui. I would say Manny is FAR better than Matsui. Now if we traded Arod for Nady, then that would probably be the same as the issue your in right now
No. This is poor logic.

Alex Rodriguez is causing no problems for the Yankees. His off field love affairs are his own personal business, and they clearly do not bother the Yankee clubhouse. He is signed for many, many years to come for the Yankees.

Manny Ramirez is causing major problems for the Red Sox. His on and off field antics and comments were really eating at everyone. At seasons end, he was a FA, so as you mentioned, we would have been stuck with no LFer.

I understand Manny -> Bay is a bit of a downgrade, but you MUST look at all points. It seems like people only want to think about Mann'y past production. This is a move to ONLY look at going forward.

Going forward, from here to, lets say, the next 5 years, who puts up the better numbers? Manny from age 37-42, or Bay from 30-35? I'm not going to say Bay will put up better numbers from here on out, but I'm not going to doubt that the numbers will be very close, like 2008. Manny is not the same hitter he once was, and people aren't understanding that. They're acting as if we're downgrading from a guy that can still drive in 140 runs, which is clearly not the case anymore.

lil'papi
08-02-2008, 09:14 AM
^^^^ Just to add to it :
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7889