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SunKhan13
07-31-2008, 04:06 PM
http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/schultz/entries/2008/07/30/braves_have_money_to_spend_reb.html


Great article in the AJC, got me real pumped for the off season.

jmtapia
07-31-2008, 04:07 PM
also bat burell....

CrippledRam
07-31-2008, 04:16 PM
SP's
Top Tier:
CC, Sheets, Lackey (has an option)

2nd Tier:
Garland, Dempster, Lohse

Injury Risk:
Burnett, Sheets

There are guys out there, we just need a few of them.

Born a Brave
07-31-2008, 04:25 PM
I know this thread is about us signing a front line starter this off-season, but how in the world does Will Ohman attract so much interest and we find a way to not move him. I want to hear why the front office didnt move him!

JerseyBrave
07-31-2008, 04:49 PM
alot of teams were interested but none of them wanted to offer anything more then a low level prospect, the pick we get for ohman when he walks is worth more than what teams were offering.

JerseyBrave
07-31-2008, 04:51 PM
SP's
Top Tier:
CC, Sheets, Lackey (has an option)

2nd Tier:
Garland, Dempster, Lohse

Injury Risk:
Burnett, Sheets

There are guys out there, we just need a few of them.

The braves should get sabathia, and try to sign either garland or dempster. They were also talking about how adam dunn would probably only get between 10 and 15 a year on the market, so i think the braves should go after dunn b/c were else will you find 40+ HR a year for only 10 to 15 mill a year.

sonofsammy79
07-31-2008, 06:02 PM
This is the offseason that the Braves have been waiting for. A lot of freed up money and several excellent players to possibly spend it on. I am very curious to see how this will play out and how the Braves will budget the 50 million that is going to be available per year. Definitely not the worst of news....

THE_FLASH_21
07-31-2008, 08:12 PM
The braves should get sabathia, and try to sign either garland or dempster. They were also talking about how adam dunn would probably only get between 10 and 15 a year on the market, so i think the braves should go after dunn b/c were else will you find 40+ HR a year for only 10 to 15 mill a year.



Adam Dunn strikes out too MUCH!!! and bats below .240... but for 10 to 15 mll sounds tempting :)

BravesBillsFan
08-01-2008, 12:13 AM
I know this thread is about us signing a front line starter this off-season, but how in the world does Will Ohman attract so much interest and we find a way to not move him. I want to hear why the front office didnt move him!

Hopefully it's because they plan on re-signing him. Losing him would be a big blow to an already weak bullpen and I'm thinking maybe Wren and Cox realize it.

BravesBillsFan
08-01-2008, 12:18 AM
here's part of this article http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080731&content_id=3230973&vkey=trade2008&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb&partnerId=rss_mlb


But Braves manager Bobby Cox is among those who will lobby to keep Ohman, who could command the $4 million annual salary that other free-agent left-handed relievers, like Ron Mahay and J.C. Romero, have recently gained.

"He's a good guy," Cox said of Ohman, who has become a very popular clubhouse figure. "He pitches whenever you call on him. He's upbeat and this has been his best season."

jmtapia
08-01-2008, 01:43 AM
^^^hell no...id rather spend those $4 on a FA acquisition.

jdiddy24
08-01-2008, 02:16 AM
^^^hell no...id rather spend those $4 on a FA acquisition.

FA for our bullpen such as what???? Carlyle? Bennett? Resop? .... no give him the money he deserves and keep him in an ATL uniform. We cant keep letting our Lefties go each season because they deserve a contract.

noname part5
08-03-2008, 03:05 PM
Does anyone in here really think we have a shot in hell at signing CC??

BRAVE KID
08-03-2008, 03:21 PM
Does anyone in here really think we have a shot in hell at signing CC??yea, with the injury to hudson and the uncertainty of smoltz and with all the rookies in our rotation...we have to sign/trade for 2 aces (or 1 ace and another top starter), that is if we want to contend for next year. and knowing the braves we are going to want to contend.

jdiddy24
08-03-2008, 03:32 PM
yea, with the injury to hudson and the uncertainty of smoltz and with all the rookies in our rotation...we have to sign/trade for 2 aces (or 1 ace and another top starter), that is if we want to contend for next year. and knowing the braves we are going to want to contend.

agreed fully... and CC adds a power bat to the lineup every 5 days ...

Chips10
08-03-2008, 03:43 PM
I cant wait until October. I'm a little excited already and optimistic as well. FA's galor.:clap:

noname part5
08-03-2008, 03:48 PM
All right, I was just wondering, we have never been the winners of bidding wars, but I really hope we get him or some other ace

rtgthree
08-03-2008, 04:46 PM
All right, I was just wondering, we have never been the winners of bidding wars, but I really hope we get him or some other ace

We've also never had nearly $50 million coming off of the payroll at the end of a season.

HCo HERO
08-03-2008, 04:46 PM
CC will be a Yankee, you can bet on it. Will the Braves ever be a team to to sign a Japanese Pitcher like Yu Darvish.

Dempster is a possibility
Lowe can be nasty at times also

Rotation 2009
Dempster(sign 4 year)
Lowe(sign 3 year)
J Jurgens
Glavine(incentive based contract)
Morton, Campillo, Hampton(incentive based contract), Jo Jo Reyes

Hudson maybe by August or sit entire year and defer his money to insurance

sign dunn to 4 year(trade piece offseason/deadline when ever jason heyward is ready)

lineup 2009

Schaefer
Yunel
Chipper 30hrs 100rbi
Dunn 40hrs 100rbi
McCann 30hrs 100rbi
Kotchman 25hrs 80rbi
Francouer 20hrs 80rbi
Johnson/Infante

not a bad rotation or lineup

maybe a lilli/BJones/Jo Jo Reyes trade for another starter (Gorzelaney, Grienke, Snell, Volstad)

Saltyfan
08-03-2008, 04:53 PM
I do not want Dempter, no way, if anything Lackey
I believe Wren wants CC. I think he knows we need that ace in order to contend. Signing Lowe and Dempter shows he is not willing to go after the top of the line guy.

Now I like the Dunn accusition, but we need a right handed power bat, not another lefty.

HCo HERO
08-03-2008, 05:04 PM
the problem is unless we trade their isn't really a power right handed bat out there. Burrell is ok but not worth it. Francouer has to be that guy next year.

CC is demanding Santana money....if we wouldnt pay santana "santana" money then why would we pay some one else. I agree no one is worth 20 mil/year

Dempster is better than anyone on our staff including Hudson. Dempster has been the most consistent starter all year for the cubs.

Lowe is just down right filthy everytime we play him. (it might be from all the sweating)

If we dont sign Glavine again then we def need to consider trying to acquire Gorzelaney from the pirates(I would take Gorz over Glavine all day) or we won't have any lefties unless hampton or Jo Jo make the team.

I believe Lackey has a club option

rtgthree
08-03-2008, 05:13 PM
CC will be a Yankee, you can bet on it. Will the Braves ever be a team to to sign a Japanese Pitcher like Yu Darvish.

Dempster is a possibility
Lowe can be nasty at times also

Rotation 2009
Dempster(sign 4 year)
Lowe(sign 3 year)
J Jurgens
Glavine(incentive based contract)
Morton, Campillo, Hampton(incentive based contract), Jo Jo Reyes

Hudson maybe by August or sit entire year and defer his money to insurance

sign dunn to 4 year(trade piece offseason/deadline when ever jason heyward is ready)

lineup 2009

Schaefer
Yunel
Chipper 30hrs 100rbi
Dunn 40hrs 100rbi
McCann 30hrs 100rbi
Kotchman 25hrs 80rbi
Francouer 20hrs 80rbi
Johnson/Infante

not a bad rotation or lineup

maybe a lilli/BJones/Jo Jo Reyes trade for another starter (Gorzelaney, Grienke, Snell, Volstad)

I don't know why I should bet on Sabathia signing with the Yankees. The Braves have tons of money to spend, and they plan to be aggressive. There are indications that CC wants to remain in the NL, and he may not want to be in the media glare of a New York team. We knew it wouldn't make sense to resign Teixeira because he was going to demand a REALLY long-term deal (Boras is talking ten years these days). Sabathia we can afford to offer more annual money because we can probably keep the term of the deal down to five years or less. I think a five-year/$110-115 million offer makes a lot of sense for both sides.

And if you think that Sabathia will be expensive, he's likely to not get anywhere NEAR what Darvish gets. Sure, CC is proven, but Darvish requires a posting fee. His Japanese team doesn't have to release him from his contract, so it will likely require $75-100 million just for the opportunity to NEGOTIATE with the guy. That's not something the Braves can afford. Let's hope that Darvish occupies Brian Cashman's attention, allowing us to reel in Sabathia.

Dempster's quite a risk, given that he could require plenty of money for a guy who's only had success as a reliever until his surprise year this year. I do like Lowe, maybe on a three-year/$33-36 million deal, but that doesn't fill the need for a true ace-caliber pitcher now that Hudson is gone.

Adam Dunn is going to get pretty expensive as well, and Saltyfan correctly points out his undesirable left-handedness. Pat Burrell is a guy who can give you similar production from the right side, but because he's older and less hyped, he'll be cheaper and won't require as long of a deal.

I know Kansas City won't move Greinke and Florida won't move Volstad. The Pittsburgh starters might be available, but I don't have enough faith in Snell or Gorzelanny to trade big-time prospects for them.

Give me CC, Burrell, and trade the prospects for Justin Duchscherer.

rtgthree
08-03-2008, 05:21 PM
the problem is unless we trade their isn't really a power right handed bat out there. Burrell is ok but not worth it. Francouer has to be that guy next year.

CC is demanding Santana money....if we wouldnt pay santana "santana" money then why would we pay some one else. I agree no one is worth 20 mil/year

Dempster is better than anyone on our staff including Hudson. Dempster has been the most consistent starter all year for the cubs.

Lowe is just down right filthy everytime we play him. (it might be from all the sweating)

If we dont sign Glavine again then we def need to consider trying to acquire Gorzelaney from the pirates(I would take Gorz over Glavine all day) or we won't have any lefties unless hampton or Jo Jo make the team.

I believe Lackey has a club option

What do you mean Burrell is "ok but not worth it"? In the last four seasons, he's posted EqA's of .302, .297, .306, and .325. That's not "ok" by any stretch of the imagination. That's solid.

CC is demanding Santana money...so let's give him Santana money. We didn't want to give up prospects and THEN pay for Santana. That's why the Braves didn't make a move there. But with loose cash and a lot to lose, Frank Wren will take a good hard look at investing some money in a proven, reliable ace like Sabathia. If he brings the playoffs back to Atlanta for the next half-decade, he's worth whatever we're paying him.

Dempster has been better THIS year than anyone on our staff except for Hudson, Jurrjens or Campillo (all those guys have lower FIPs than he does). Throw in that he's got a career FIP of 4.48 and that it's pretty unlikely he had some kind of magical breakout in his age-31 season. Credit his .258 BABIP for at least some of his newfound success. Some team will throw him $12-15 million a year. Let's hope that team isn't the Braves.

I would rather have an all right-handed rotation than trade valuable prospects for an uncertain quantity like Gorzelanny. He was demoted to AAA last month in case you missed it, and it sure looks like he has some kind of injury.

NickSC07
08-03-2008, 05:37 PM
I wouldnt be suprised if Frank Wren **** the bed this offseason and didn't make any of these moves.

rtgthree
08-03-2008, 06:07 PM
I wouldnt be suprised if Frank Wren **** the bed this offseason and didn't make any of these moves.

What a ridiculous comment. What reason do you have not to have full confidence in Frank Wren? It's been well-publicized that the Braves have plenty of money to spend and they plan to be aggressive. What would possibly make you think they'll just sit on their hands and go into the season with a $50 million payroll?

knightsace31
08-03-2008, 06:12 PM
I think that the Braves should make some attempt at Matt Holiday. He's a guy who could hit in between Chipper and Brian McCann so that they each get something to hit. Also, go out and sign Ervin Santana. Don't make an attempt, sign him. Try CC. If he wants 20+Million, hell no. Go out and get Garland or Dempster or Lohse. A second-tier pitcher would be nice.

Schafer
Yunel
Chipper
Holiday
McCann
Kotchman
Francoeur
Infante
Pitcher

rtgthree
08-03-2008, 06:20 PM
I think that the Braves should make some attempt at Matt Holiday. He's a guy who could hit in between Chipper and Brian McCann so that they each get something to hit. Also, go out and sign Ervin Santana. Don't make an attempt, sign him. Try CC. If he wants 20+Million, hell no. Go out and get Garland or Dempster or Lohse. A second-tier pitcher would be nice.

Schafer
Yunel
Chipper
Holiday
McCann
Kotchman
Francoeur
Infante
Pitcher

Matt Holliday is signed through 2009, so he'd cost a king's ransom in terms of prospects. Think Jason Heyward for starters. With plenty of other options out there, I just don't see how that makes sense. Sign Ervin Santana?! He's under the Angels' control through 2011. It'd be pretty tough to even "make an attempt" to sign a free agent who can't even become a free agent for three more years.

Why do you say "hell no" to 20+ million a year for Sabathia? He's young, he's reliable, and, oh yeah, he's the best pitcher in baseball. If you can keep the deal down to four or five years, it's not an undue risk. And hey, we've got to blow $47 million SOMEWHERE...might as well spend it on a surefire superstar.

We've been over Garland and Dempster. Both represent too much risk for what they are going to cost, and I just don't see Frank Wren dealing with Scott Boras ever again, which rules out Lohse.

And might I ask where Kelly Johnson went? You didn't honestly replace him in the lineup with Omar Infante, did you?

NickSC07
08-03-2008, 06:32 PM
What a ridiculous comment. What reason do you have not to have full confidence in Frank Wren? It's been well-publicized that the Braves have plenty of money to spend and they plan to be aggressive. What would possibly make you think they'll just sit on their hands and go into the season with a $50 million payroll?

I have no doubts that the $50-55 million will be spent, I'm just afraid that we wont get a Sabatthia, Burrell, Dunn, or anyone else that we are all collectively hoping to obtain this offseason.

jmtapia
08-03-2008, 06:32 PM
I wouldnt be suprised if Frank Wren **** the bed this offseason and didn't make any of these moves.

:confused::confused:...wow..

runningcircles
08-03-2008, 08:21 PM
Remember, we are the team that signed the reigning CY Young Award winner in 1993 (Maddux), and rode his success to the playoffs for the rest of the 90's. Granted, we already had a rotation including young, talented, Glavine and Smoltz, but Hudson will be back toward the end of next season, and is under our control for the two years after that. Not to mention Jurjjens looks every bit as talented as our young starters did in the early 90's. Also, we have Reyes and Morton, who have been inconsistent, but also shown they may be only a year or two away.

Sabathia is extremely young, has blown away NL hitters so far with the Brewers, and, is NOT represented by Scott Boras. With our influx of young, talented position players, both at the ML level AND the minor league level, a signing such as Sabathia, along with just a few other minor deals, would put us in just as prime a position to be as successful in the next 2-5 years, as we were in the 90's. Sabathia is a year YOUNGER than Santanta, has around 10 more career wins than Santana does. Plus, he doesn't go through extended stretches of the year without being successful. A foundation of a rotation including both he and Jurjjens, along with Hudson (if he comes back healthy) and we are a replica of what we were during our 14 years of success/

Nobody knows more than Atlanta how important spending money on good pitching can be, compared to trying to outslug the competition. Good pitching ALWAYS beats good hitting, especially in the POSTSEASON. Also, hitting, as we've seen firsthand over the last 3 years, goes into PROLONGED stretches of slumps.

Rather than go after another hitter like Dunn, or even Burrell, I'd like to make a run at trading for, and extending, another righthanded pitcher like Roy Oswalt. I don't know what his contract situation is (I think he's signed through the end of next year, but not sure) but I'd love to spend all our money on pitching, and let players like Gorkys and Heyward play in our outfield. Set some sort of 2 to 3 year plan and stick to it.

runningcircles
08-03-2008, 08:34 PM
Nevermind, I just saw where Oswalt signed a 5 year extension in 06, so he's locked down. Either way, I'd rather throw EVERY FA dollar on PITCHING, even if it means saving some more cash for FA pitching the year after. We have enough offense with our current position players, and considering how young they all are, you'd HAVE to think the offensive consistency will come. Just wish we could've pushed the Teixeira deal to the DEADLINE, in hopes of getting a top prospect PITCHER in a return deal. Maybe Marek will be a diamond in the rough though!

runningcircles
08-03-2008, 08:36 PM
Also, I really think our biggest slip up so far under the Wren era, was signing Glavine, considering he was somehow a FA prospect that cost us a first round draft pick! Considering Sabathia would do the same (IF we were to somehow snag him), does anybody know what kind of draft pick we'd get back if Ohman was to sign somewhere else? Should he be a A list FA?

sniglewhat
08-03-2008, 08:40 PM
a 2-3 year plan should not include oswalt. Roy Oswalt is no longer the ace you think of. plus why would you want Gorkys and Heyward playing next year?

rtgthree
08-04-2008, 12:54 PM
I have no doubts that the $50-55 million will be spent, I'm just afraid that we wont get a Sabatthia, Burrell, Dunn, or anyone else that we are all collectively hoping to obtain this offseason.

It'd be pretty tough to drop $50 million without getting a single big-name guy. Frank Wren's excellent track record suggests that he knows what he's doing enough to understand that a bunch of mid-tier free agents aren't going to bring the playoffs back to Atlanta. Maybe we won't see Burrell AND Sabathia, but I'd think we'll get one or the other of an ace-caliber starter and a big-stick left fielder.


Granted, we already had a rotation including young, talented, Glavine and Smoltz, but Hudson will be back toward the end of next season, and is under our control for the two years after that.

Hudson is NOT under control for two more years after he returns. It's likely he'll miss all of next season recovering from surgery, which means it's UNlikely that the Braves will be willing to exercise their half of his $12 million mutual option for 2010. There's a distinct possibility that Tim Hudson has made his final start in a Braves uniform.


Also, I really think our biggest slip up so far under the Wren era, was signing Glavine, considering he was somehow a FA prospect that cost us a first round draft pick! Considering Sabathia would do the same (IF we were to somehow snag him), does anybody know what kind of draft pick we'd get back if Ohman was to sign somewhere else? Should he be a A list FA?

The Glavine signing wasn't the greatest move, but it made some sense at the time, and there wasn't really all that much great talent available in the second half of the first round anyway. We will NOT lose our first-round pick this year because we'll be bad enough to pick in the top 15 and top 15 draft picks are protected. We'd lose our second-rounder for signing CC or Burrell. Ohman is likely to be a Type-B free agent, which means that we'd get a supplemental first-round pick if he signs elsewhere (assuming, of course, that we offer him arbitration).

samanjerry
08-04-2008, 03:51 PM
i dont think there is any chance the braves sign CC seb.
I think they are similar to the Angels front office who has a stance against spending over 20 million dollars per year on any player. and i agree with them, i think it would be much wiser to purchase next level down player (cost wise)

jdiddy24
08-04-2008, 03:56 PM
i dont think there is any chance the braves sign CC seb.
I think they are similar to the Angels front office who has a stance against spending over 20 million dollars per year on any player. and i agree with them, i think it would be much wiser to purchase next level down player (cost wise)

they would if they had the chance... and they will try to with Tex I believe... They would gladly pay Tex $20M/yr than signing another Gary Mathews Jr. to $10+M/yr


... and the next level down wont replace Smoltz and Hudson in the rotation... we need an ACE (Sabathia) to build our rotation around for the next 5 years with young arms developing (JJ, Hanson, Rohr, Locke, and Morton) with pieces like Campillo filling out the rotation.

TomahawkChopper
08-04-2008, 04:08 PM
I think there is no question that everyone knows we need someone like Sabathia, the question is will we go out and spend the money and it will take to get him. It could easily come down to be 20+mil for 5 years. Now granted we have never really had the kind of money we are going to have this offseason but I cant even remember that last free agent we actually went out and paid big bucks for. Im use to seeing them leave us for big bucks not come here for the bucks. So I am very interested to see if we actually go out and spend all the cash we can and really get what we need. Or do we go spend cheaper amounts of it for pieces they will say will work.

samanjerry
08-04-2008, 09:32 PM
they would if they had the chance... and they will try to with Tex I believe... They would gladly pay Tex $20M/yr than signing another Gary Mathews Jr. to $10+M/yr


... and the next level down wont replace Smoltz and Hudson in the rotation... we need an ACE (Sabathia) to build our rotation around for the next 5 years with young arms developing (JJ, Hanson, Rohr, Locke, and Morton) with pieces like Campillo filling out the rotation.



like i said the "next level down" as in cost. lackey is obviously not gonna get the money that CC will get so im talking about players like him. next level down in cost, not talent. im just not sure the braves are gonna build a expensive team right away. they might not mind letting the next couple years go and see if they can rebuild to contend for another 10 years. every team needs a rebuilding period. especially if they dont have the money to buy every good player like the yankees or redsox.

the braves havent really had a true ace like we are used to in the 90s. hudson is great but he just hasnt been able to lead them like we wanted. besides smoltz no pitcher has been able to anchored the team in recent years. so im just saying i wouldnt mind if they took younger talented players cause the braves have some talented players coming up aswell. and they will be a good team again.

samanjerry
08-04-2008, 09:41 PM
if they spend all the money they have on 2 players this winter they will be strapped for cash in a few years when they need to resign all the young players like frenchy escobar johnson and others coming up from the farm. you gotta remember that this is not the braves of old when ted turner owned them. new owners with financial restrictions on the team cause they really dont give a damn about the braves. remember in the early 2000s the team just couldnt sign or keep free agents cause 3-4 players held 75%ish of the payroll. that happened when turner sold the team and the payroll was cut 20-25 million. this could happen again. 2-3 superstars just arent enough to win a WS you gotta have lots of good players all over the diamond. and they cant have that if they spend all the money on 1 or 2 players

jdiddy24
08-04-2008, 11:46 PM
like i said the "next level down" as in cost. lackey is obviously not gonna get the money that CC will get so im talking about players like him. next level down in cost, not talent. im just not sure the braves are gonna build a expensive team right away. they might not mind letting the next couple years go and see if they can rebuild to contend for another 10 years. every team needs a rebuilding period. especially if they dont have the money to buy every good player like the yankees or redsox.

the braves havent really had a true ace like we are used to in the 90s. hudson is great but he just hasnt been able to lead them like we wanted. besides smoltz no pitcher has been able to anchored the team in recent years. so im just saying i wouldnt mind if they took younger talented players cause the braves have some talented players coming up aswell. and they will be a good team again.

....Lackey wont be available.... I can guarantee he will be with the Angels unless he breaks his arm.

jmtapia
08-05-2008, 02:32 AM
i dont think there is any chance the braves sign CC seb.
I think they are similar to the Angels front office who has a stance against spending over 20 million dollars per year on any player. and i agree with them, i think it would be much wiser to purchase next level down player (cost wise)

Lets not talk about the Angles whom gave Garoids Mathews JR a $50 Mill deal........HORRIBLE>>

runningcircles
08-05-2008, 05:05 AM
if they spend all the money they have on 2 players this winter they will be strapped for cash in a few years when they need to resign all the young players like frenchy escobar johnson and others coming up from the farm. you gotta remember that this is not the braves of old when ted turner owned them. new owners with financial restrictions on the team cause they really dont give a damn about the braves. remember in the early 2000s the team just couldnt sign or keep free agents cause 3-4 players held 75%ish of the payroll. that happened when turner sold the team and the payroll was cut 20-25 million. this could happen again. 2-3 superstars just arent enough to win a WS you gotta have lots of good players all over the diamond. and they cant have that if they spend all the money on 1 or 2 players

Not necessarily the case. Remember, with the cash coming off the books this offseason, we are actually in a position where we we could seriously FRONTLOAD a big name, big time contract, on a player like Sabathia. Now, I know contracts were nowhere near the amounts they are now back in the early 90's, but, the Braves made ARGUABLY, the greatest free agent signing of ALL-TIME when they decided to sign Greg Maddux in '93, when then G.M. JS decided to spend the money on pitching, rather than hitting (remember, Bonds was lobbying as much as he could to sign with Atlanta, going as far as looking in the Atlanta area for houses, and even commenting something like the Braves made it obvious that even though he wanted to play, he was not wanted by the Braves). I know that JS wrote in his book that he had a verbal agreement to acquire Bonds from the Pirates, which was nixed when then Pirates manager Jim Leyland went crazy on the Pirates G.M. and ownership, all but nullifying the proposed deal. However, when it came time to spend the money in the offseason, the Braves opted to sign the ace pitcher (Maddux), rather than the stud offensive position player (Bonds). Wren does have an excellent track record when it comes to acquisitions and player evaluation (trades for younger players, especially pitchers, as I think he acquired Bedard, and some of the better Marlin young players and pitchers, don't quote me on that, but I do think I've read and heard that before), and JS is still in charge of this team. With the recent lack of success the Braves have had attempting to outscore our opponents, and the success level we had while having a top of the line rotation, I fully expect us to make a run at an ace starting pitcher this offseason, and I think it is more than obvious that C.C. is not only the best of the best, in terms of starting pitchers on the free agent market this offseason, if not the best starting pitcher in ALL of baseball. Couple that with the fact that he is a left handed pitcher, who is by all accounts an absolute WORKHORSE, who never breaks down, and is the true definition of an ace (more than capable of pitching 8 innings every night), I feel as though he would be the one guy worth throwing $100M+ at, especially if the deal can be worked out around 5 to 6 years.

As far as the frontloading contract I was referring to, we are in a position where we could offer CC a contract somewhere around topping off at $25M a year for the first two years, then dropping down to $17M per towards the end of the deal. This could even allow us to possibly up the years closer to a 6 year deal. I know pitchers are risky to offer contracts longer than 5 years to, but if we frontloaded the deal, the Braves could possibly even put a deal on the table, keeping him in a Braves uniform for 6 or 7 years, with a club option on both the 6th and 7th years.

Here's something that I was just thinking of that could allow us to give CC a close to max contract, with the bulk of the cash coming at the beginning of the deal.

2009 - $23M
2010 - $23M
2011 - $20M
2012 - $18M
2013 - $16M

That would be a contract of 5yr/$100M, with $63M coming off the books over the first 3 years. It would also give us more flexibility in 2012 and 13, to resign some of our younger players, and still allow us to have around $20M to $25M to spend in the next two offseasons. I would think it would be a deal hard for CC to turn down, unless the Yanks offer some sort of top dollar, 7 year deal to him, because he would get so much guaranteed cash over the next 3 seasons. It also gives us the absolute ACE starting pitcher we need over the next few seasons, with the possible loss of Hudson for the rest of his career in a Braves uniform. Smoltz has now stressed that he REALLY wants to pitch next season, and would obviously be willing to take a much more reduced contract, or atleast a contract filled with on field production clauses. I see no reason, considering the contracts of Glavine, Hampton, and Teixeira coming off the books next year, that we couldn't afford to pay CC what we were obviously willing to offer Tex prior to the season, which Wren claimed would have made him one of the highest paid players in the game, for quite some time. Like I said earlier, I don't know what type of either mutual club/player options could be made for the two over a possible 6th or 7th seasons in a Braves uniform, but I honestly feel we have a distinct advantage over most of the MLB teams (except for the large market clubs like the Yanks, Sox, and Mets) because of the way we are able to frontload the contract, giving him the bulk of the deal in the early years. The Sox are already loaded with pitching, and, with their already ungodly salaries, seem to be taking an approach of allowing their very young and talented kids take a larger role in their ML ballclub. The Yanks should be a major player in the Japanese pitcher on the market this year, and with the young, highly touted prospect pitchers such as Chamberlain and Hughes, will hopefully be looking to spend their cash on the Japanese SP and a big bat such as Teixeira. The Mets just made the acquisition of Santana, and are supposed to be one of the biggest suitors in the Mark Teixeira sweepstakes during the upcoming offseason.

Obviously, this is all just speculation on my part, but I feel as though with the success CC has shown so far in the NL, and the fact that he is not represented by "The Agent" (Scott Boras), could be one of those guys looking to make his dough, and perhaps play for a perennial winner, and a club that is always a preseason favorite to make the postseason, such as the Braves. I'm obviously being very optimistic, but I am very hopeful that we make a serious run at CC this offseason. Having a starting rotation with CC, Jurjjens, Campillo (he seems to be the real deal so far), and possibly Smoltz for one more year is just about as good as it gets. Couple that with the fact that Hudson should be back by the end of next season, and we could once again be in prime position to make a serious run at the postseason. Also, considering the impact pitching has on a team come October, we'd be MUCH better suited at being a WS contender, rather than just a team looking to make it to the first round of the playoffs.

I feel that with the youth and talent of our position players, such as McCann, Frenchy, Escobar, Kotchman, and Kelly Johnson, along with the development of Blanco, and Chipper being one of the best offensive players in baseball (when healthy), our offensive inconsistency should begin to dwindle (there's just NO way the injuries can continue to mount in any other year as they have this year), and even if they don't, our pitching should be good enough to carry us even when we don't score 4+ runs a game, as we so often DON'T. With the development of Shaeffer, Heyward, and Gorkys, our future could be EXTREMELY bright over the next half decade if we are able to make the right offseason acquisition, which Sabathia would DEFINITELY be.

runningcircles
08-05-2008, 05:33 AM
I forgot to mention that if Schaeffer doesn't pan out over the rest of the minor league season, or the fall league, as we obviously hope he does, we would still have the cash to spend this offseason (after signing Sabathia, of course!) to sign a bat like Pat Burrell, who the Phillies are more likely to let go than resign, to plug into our lineup in leftfield, as a bridge until Heyward is ready to take over.

This roster would give us as good a shot as any other to win the NL East, and, without significant injuries, could make us a WS contender, IMO.

CF - Blanco
SS - Escobar
3B - C. Jones
C - McCann
LF - Burrell
1B - Kotchman
RF - Franceour
2B - Johnson
P

I'm not sure exactly who we could plug in from the cleanup spot down, but with Frenchy's struggles this year, unless he has a turnaround second half, I can't see him batting any higher than the 7th spot. I just came up with the lineup, doing my best to go lefty/righty, all the way down, to limit opposing managers from being able to use left handed relief pitchers/specialists for entire innings against us, and forcing them to use more relief pitchers to better their matchup. We all know the key to winning games in this era is to knock the starter out early (which is why I WISH we would learn to see as many pitches as possible against ALL opposing pitchers, not just certain ones, to knock them out in the middle innings due to high pitch counts) and get to the weakness of nearly every ML team, their bullpen, as early as possible, to get to the opposing team's bullpens as often, and early as possible.

Possible starting rotation
1 - Sabathia
2 - Jurjjens
3 - Campillo
4 - Reyes
5 - Morton

If Smoltz is able to come back healthy, as he hopes, and I'm optimistic he will be able to, this would change the complex of our rotation SIGNIFICANTLY, as we'd only have to look for a 5th starter, but that can't be counted on just yet. Hudson would be the other wild card, because if he came back Hudson-like, and we were still in the race come late August, our rotation would rival any in baseball. There are alot of if's in this scenario, but with a big 3 of Sabathia, JJ, and Campillo, we would only have to look for one more mid-rotation starter, which Reyes could be by that time.

Bullpen
LR - Carlyle, Bennett
6th inning - Boyer/Acosta
7th inning - Soriano/Moylan
8th inning - Soriano/Moylan
closer - Gonzo
openings - lefty specialist
replacement for Ohman if not resigned

Thoughts???

Would signing CC put us over the top as I feel he would?

CrippledRam
08-05-2008, 07:23 AM
Don't forget Bonds is probably the SECOND best free agent signing of all time lol

ahmed5456
08-05-2008, 08:54 AM
With Hudson out. We will look for C.C. or Sheets. Your thoughts

torontosports10
08-05-2008, 09:01 AM
My thoughts are you have no link and all you did was make a statment. There will be alot of teams after them.

brewersfan729
08-05-2008, 09:02 AM
Umm okay, this is worthy of a thread why?

Humongo
08-05-2008, 09:02 AM
My thoughts are that this is better suited in the Braves forum.

The Schmooze
08-05-2008, 09:06 AM
John Shueurholtz(sp) is that you?

IndiansFan337
08-05-2008, 09:15 AM
I doubt they can sign either.

They need to pray that Smoltz can return to form & wants to play another year.

Otherwise this team could potentially be looking at 100 losses net season if they are without Smoltz & Hudson.

IndiansFan337
08-05-2008, 09:16 AM
John Shueurholtz(sp) is that you?

He retired.

Frank Wren runs the Atlanta Braves now.

Slash
08-05-2008, 11:17 AM
He retired.

Frank Wren runs the Atlanta Braves now.

You sure?

BRAVE KID
08-05-2008, 01:16 PM
I doubt they can sign either.

They need to pray that Smoltz can return to form & wants to play another year.

Otherwise this team could potentially be looking at 100 losses net season if they are without Smoltz & Hudson.
Again what makes you so certain? Have the braves ever been a team in which they don't have contention in their minds? I don't see why they wouldn't be thinking about contention with the money they will be able to work with this off-season..lets just wait and see what they do in the off-season before we start calling their fate as a 100 loss team.




Originally Posted by IndiansFan337
He retired.

Frank Wren runs the Atlanta Braves now.really? you have a source?

FearAD
08-10-2008, 12:53 PM
I like the idea of Sabisthia and Sheet. I agree to that maybe we can sign Mike Hamptom to a heavily incentive based contact.

Hopefully Smoltz and Glavine agree to retire.

ugafan
08-10-2008, 01:03 PM
I doubt they can sign either.

They need to pray that Smoltz can return to form & wants to play another year.

Otherwise this team could potentially be looking at 100 losses net season if they are without Smoltz & Hudson.

That's laughable.
Even without them two we have Jurrjens, Campillo etc.

And an offense consisting of Escobar, Johnson, Kotchman, Jones, McCann etc. plus whoever else we sign with our 40 mil+. I :pity: you and your baseball knowledge.

sniglewhat
08-10-2008, 08:27 PM
I like the idea of Sabisthia and Sheet. I agree to that maybe we can sign Mike Hamptom to a heavily incentive based contact.

Hopefully Smoltz and Glavine agree to retire.

yeah, after that we should trade eddie perez for pujols:confused: