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View Full Version : AK Trade Scenarios Just Won't Work



JAZZNC
07-30-2008, 07:16 PM
There is no trade scenario for AK other than the Wally deal that is going to work. Everyone just thinks that Deng, Smith, ect is just going to come in and score 18pts per game, ect. It's simply not going to happen. AK is a very, very good basketball player and it seems as though everyone on this board has forgotten that. He was an All-Star, had the only 5x5 games since the 70's, and was the best player in the European games this summer. He's that damn good. He's a better player than Deng, Smith, Lamar Odom, Shaun Marion, ect. It's just that when you're the fourth option and rarely get your number called it's hard to get into a rhythm and it makes you not want to work as hard on the other side of the ball as well. If we trade him for a guy like Smith or Deng, they're just gonna come in and be pissed b/c they aren't getting the ball enough and they're gonna end up being overpaid just like AK and they probably won't even put up the stats that he is. It's not like we're gonna be scoring 120pts per game. I'd just like to see us get Wally and then have Miles be the starter by next year. or simply trade him for nothing at all. The best guy to fit into our particular 3 needs is Shane Battier but that's not going to happen. We're not going to get any better by trading the guy and we can't keep our main guys if he stays to we're kind of in a pickle. At least if Boozer walks next year AK can move to the 4 and CJ can start at the 3 (this may actually be what the front office has envisioned). It would be a very long, athletic team but without a real low post presence. I dunno, I guess I'm just rambling now but there is no real way to get rid of AK other than the Wally deal and really make things happen. Nobody we can get for AK is going to be happy or be a savior thats going to give us that extra boost, hell it'll probably make us worse getting a Deng or Smith b/c they won't be happy and we'll be stuck with them and their long contract for even more time than AK.

Reezy
07-30-2008, 10:55 PM
I actually like Kirilenko a lot. I've always kinda wondered why anybody would want to trade him.

THE_FLASH_21
07-31-2008, 02:02 AM
There is no trade scenario for AK other than the Wally deal that is going to work. Everyone just thinks that Deng, Smith, ect is just going to come in and score 18pts per game, ect. It's simply not going to happen. AK is a very, very good basketball player and it seems as though everyone on this board has forgotten that. He was an All-Star, had the only 5x5 games since the 70's, and was the best player in the European games this summer. He's that damn good. He's a better player than Deng, Smith, Lamar Odom, Shaun Marion, ect. It's just that when you're the fourth option and rarely get your number called it's hard to get into a rhythm and it makes you not want to work as hard on the other side of the ball as well. If we trade him for a guy like Smith or Deng, they're just gonna come in and be pissed b/c they aren't getting the ball enough and they're gonna end up being overpaid just like AK and they probably won't even put up the stats that he is. It's not like we're gonna be scoring 120pts per game. I'd just like to see us get Wally and then have Miles be the starter by next year. or simply trade him for nothing at all. The best guy to fit into our particular 3 needs is Shane Battier but that's not going to happen. We're not going to get any better by trading the guy and we can't keep our main guys if he stays to we're kind of in a pickle. At least if Boozer walks next year AK can move to the 4 and CJ can start at the 3 (this may actually be what the front office has envisioned). It would be a very long, athletic team but without a real low post presence. I dunno, I guess I'm just rambling now but there is no real way to get rid of AK other than the Wally deal and really make things happen. Nobody we can get for AK is going to be happy or be a savior thats going to give us that extra boost, hell it'll probably make us worse getting a Deng or Smith b/c they won't be happy and we'll be stuck with them and their long contract for even more time than AK.


I love AK but lets not lie to each other.. he's not better then DENG and might be as good as Jsmith. If he improves his shootingi think he can be our #3 option. He needs to show EVEN MORE heart this coming year!! Defense is not enough to be getting paid what he is... He needs to score at least 16 points
a game.

JAZZNC
07-31-2008, 08:56 AM
I love AK but lets not lie to each other.. he's not better then DENG and might be as good as Jsmith. If he improves his shootingi think he can be our #3 option. He needs to show EVEN MORE heart this coming year!! Defense is not enough to be getting paid what he is... He needs to score at least 16 points
a game.
He's so much better than Deng. He's got a better jumper, he's the better defender, he's the much better passer. He just simply doesn't get the opportunities that Deng does to showcase that talent. I guarantee that if you switched them on their respective teams that AK would put up better numbers than Deng. Also, if you look at it Deng is about to be WAAAAAAAAY overpaid for a guy who can't even be a number 1 option.

Enderson
07-31-2008, 09:47 AM
It’s funny how it always comes back to money. If we were paying AK $8-$10 mill a year (what I believe his current market value is) we would not be having these conversations, especially if it was closer to the 8ish end. It’s all about what you get for the money. AK is a good player and when focused can be a real difference maker on the floor. What has become obvious since he signed his deal is he is not a franchise player, although he is being paid like one, and thusly has to go. We are not New York, LA, or Boston. We cannot afford bad contracts. If we cannot find a taker for AK, which I highly doubt we will, we stand to lose actual franchise players.

One option that I haven’t seen discussed on the boards revisits a topic from last summer’s fiasco. What about the possibility of him returning to Russia to play? Last summer he made comments to a Russian newspaper that he was considering walking away from his contract and returning to the mother country. I know it’s one thing to say that and a whole other to actually leave $50+ mill on the table, but still . . . Perhaps the Jazz could slightly nudge in that direction???

Lo Porto
07-31-2008, 11:19 AM
Jazz NC - I see what you are saying, and I agree with a lot. AK is a good player. I don't think he's better than Deng or Smith, but he's just as good. My biggest problem with AK is fit. He is not that effective in our system at the 3, and he's not going to play the 4 for us. His lack of fit is even more apparent in terms of contract. The reasons Deng or Smith would be better fits are because they are natural SF's and they would make $5-7 million less a year. I'd keep AK at anything less than $10 a year. AK is a stat guy, but we all know that Utah was not winning when he was putting up his best stats. Since we brought in winners and a stud to play the 4 (Deron, Boozer, and Okur), his role has gotten less but we've won more games. It is very clear to me, and he even mentioned it last year in his whine before the season, that he should be playing the 4. Let's give him his wish and trade him. I'm fine with Wally, but I'd rather have Smith.

One thing is for sure - let's all hope AK tears it up in the Olympics. It only helps us out if he plays awesome...

jimbobjarree
07-31-2008, 11:48 AM
I really like AK on our team, I think Booz and D Will are our scorers, and Memo the majority of the time, I think we need a defensive player like AK to play around them, like NBA 2K8, I know its just a game but with Booz, Williams, Memo scoring the majority of my points I only need good defensive wingmen to go with them and chip in a few points.

But it always comes down to money, I just wish AK was on 8 mil a year, it would solve all our problems, just think what we could do with that extra 8mil in the cap, couldnt we trade him for some defensive role players?

If CJ was an established defender I wouldn't mind him at the 3, but his D isnt quite there yet, and nor is Korv while Brewer has his moments, so Kirilenko is key at the moment

ujf
07-31-2008, 12:30 PM
Who was the last NBA champion (other than last years Celtics) that had a dominant PF? Boozer is not the key to winning a championship. Boozer puts up big numbers, but he does not compliment the other players on the court. I like Boozer, but trade him or let him opt out to clear salary cap space. We've got our superstar and team leader in D-Wil. We have former and potential future all stars in AK and Okur - Surround those three with quality complimentary players (Milsap, Brewer, Korver, Harp, CJ and a backup C that can block some shots and rebound) and our shot at a championship is as good as any team out there. That puts AK back in his comfort zone at PF where he can return to his former-self and having AK and Milsap share PF responsibilities automatically makes the Jazz a better defensive team.

trentu12
07-31-2008, 12:34 PM
AK is so fun to watch. There are games where Andrei just controls everything. He can score when we need him to, but beyond that he just does so many other things to help this team. I don't want to see him traded at all. He gives us everything we could possibly ask from a guy that is considered your 4th option (he's probably more like a 6th or 7th option in reality).

I'd like to see the Jazz move forward with what you mentioned. Let Boozer go next year and play AK and Millsap at the 4. Let CJ play the 3, Brewer the 2, and Memo the 5. We'd have a young (but experienced) squad that would be long/active on defense and that wouldn't be lacking offensively.

If anyone is overrated, it's Boozer, not AK.

Boozer doesn't play with 1/2 the effort of Millsap and AK.

Having said that, I love Boozer and would love to see him bounce back and have a huge year on both ends of the court.

Their are only a couple players that I consider movable: Knight, Collins, Fesenko, Koufos, and maybe Almond. We could also throw in a future pick or two into any deal.

Make a package offer for Jeff Foster, and lets go win a championship.

* Or just bring Handlogten back and we basically have a 1992 Dream Team caliber line-up. ;)

ujf
07-31-2008, 12:43 PM
Foster would be a nice pick-up

futureman
07-31-2008, 02:34 PM
If he's so good he can do what he can do in memphis so we can keep our team in contention. He was good when the team sucked and ever since then he's outlived his usefulness. I would rather lose AK than lose Boozer, Okur Millsap, Brewer or Korver.

Lo Porto
07-31-2008, 03:23 PM
Do some of you even watch Utah basketball? Jerry Sloan's entire offense is successful when there is a great PG and a good big who can post up and hit the 18 footer. We won for years with Karl and we'll win for years with Boozer. AK tried to fill this role after Malone and before Boozer. He had some stud stats, he was fun to watch, but we lost a whole lot of games. AK is a great player, but he'll never be the right fit for Utah. He doesn't drive or shoot well enough to be given free reign in any system, much less Sloan's disciplined style. AK needs a coach who will let him take more chances (Mike Brown, D'Antoni, Nellie, ...). AK is not the player who would be good in a Sloan, Popovich, Riley or similar type system. I like the guy, but he needs to go before Deron, Boozer, Okur, Brewer, Korver, or Millsap.

jimbobjarree
07-31-2008, 03:31 PM
theres always the potential chance of AK picking up form in the olympics or improving his jump shot further in camp, his shot definatly improved last year, as we saw in the last game of the playoffs. But while theres sloan, their has to be a top pf and a top pg for us to be successful, so is keeping boozer down to whether Sloan signs on next year?

trentu12
07-31-2008, 04:58 PM
Do some of you even watch Utah basketball? Jerry Sloan's entire offense is successful when there is a great PG and a good big who can post up and hit the 18 footer. We won for years with Karl and we'll win for years with Boozer. AK tried to fill this role after Malone and before Boozer. He had some stud stats, he was fun to watch, but we lost a whole lot of games. AK is a great player, but he'll never be the right fit for Utah. He doesn't drive or shoot well enough to be given free reign in any system, much less Sloan's disciplined style. AK needs a coach who will let him take more chances (Mike Brown, D'Antoni, Nellie, ...). AK is not the player who would be good in a Sloan, Popovich, Riley or similar type system. I like the guy, but he needs to go before Deron, Boozer, Okur, Brewer, Korver, or Millsap.

Yes, we watch Utah Jazz basketball. The Jazz PG/PF combination has won a lot of games, but never any titles. Phil Jackson knows how to take our PF right out of the game. He did it to Malone, and he has done it to Boozer. When AK played the 4 spot, we didn't have a stockton/williams caliber pg so i don't like that comparison.

I don't disagree with you. I think the Jazz have to have a consistent post player that can hit from 18 and can also play with his back to the basket. And yes, Andrei should go before some other players because of his contract. The Jazz really need some more defense to win a championship though and trading our best defender is going to be tough.

Lets hope Brewer comes into the season with an improved jump shot, and Boozer plays some D and boxes out this year. I really like our team (AK and Booze included) and want to win it all with this group.

Lo Porto
07-31-2008, 05:50 PM
I apologize for my blatant sarcasm. I meant no harm.

As long as Sloan is here, we'll play his system. It hasn't won us one, but it's won us much more than most other franchises both big and small markets included. You're right about the titles, but one thing is sure - we've never put a stud with our PG-PF combo. Hornacek was the closest, but that's not going to do it. As much as some people like AK, he's not the stud either. Brewer might improve to be fantastic, but I doubt he'll ever be better than Bryon Russell. CJ or Almond might be, but we don't know yet. Since we know AK is not that stud, he needs to go. He can go for Josh Smith (who I believe has the potential to be that stud) or just go to save us money (for Wally would be ideal) to search for that stud in the coming years and also keep the PG-PF combo together.

jimbobjarree
07-31-2008, 06:22 PM
just think if that 2010 pick was that stud to go with deron and boozer for many years

Raupie
07-31-2008, 07:00 PM
I'm happy to hear people recognizing AK has some good ability. His contract makes him an enemy when he is actually a very good player. He is European player of the year. That includes guys like Gasol. He almost single handidly won the last game against the lakers with a great block and two 3 pointers. Last year he was content to play for Utah... if we could help him to LOVE to play in Utah again, I think he could get close to earning his salary. But as it is right now, he is only worth about 10 mil a year. So he needs to embrace his role a little more and I think the Jazz need to work a little harder at involving him in the offense a little more. So I hope we go that direction if we cannot trade him for someone of similar talent.

ujf
07-31-2008, 10:37 PM
Horny was a stud, period... a complete player and top 5 SG in his prime. The one and only problem preventing the Jazz from getting 2 titles was that the Bulls had the #1 stud. We only have one player (D-Wil) in the same league as Stock, Karl and Horny, but we have a much deeper supporting cast. As much as I like some of Boozer's game, he is no Malone. No D and not near the passer... and when people say Boozer has no D, they don't mean weak on D - It's meant literally... NO D! As long as this is true, averaging 20-10 means very little. Can you say Zach Randolph? I still feel with Okur, AK and Milsap sharing the 4, the Jazz are much better defensively and any drop-off in offensive production with Boozer gone would be minimal. With or without Boozer, scoring points is not this teams problem. Ask the Lakers how titles are won. They learned first-hand just a few weeks ago.

JAZZNC
07-31-2008, 10:41 PM
I'm happy to hear people recognizing AK has some good ability. His contract makes him an enemy when he is actually a very good player. He is European player of the year. That includes guys like Gasol. He almost single handidly won the last game against the lakers with a great block and two 3 pointers. Last year he was content to play for Utah... if we could help him to LOVE to play in Utah again, I think he could get close to earning his salary. But as it is right now, he is only worth about 10 mil a year. So he needs to embrace his role a little more and I think the Jazz need to work a little harder at involving him in the offense a little more. So I hope we go that direction if we cannot trade him for someone of similar talent.

I completely agree. When Boozer or Okur is just throwing up garbage the entire game they should give him more looks. Hell even if they're playing well they should still give him more looks. Damn Ronnie Brewer gets more looks than AK. As good of an all around player as he is he should have the ball in his hands more often than he does.

I think that judging him based on wins and losses when he was the focal point really isn't fair. He's a dang good player, he lead a team of complete and I mean complete scrubs to a .500 record the year after Stockton and Malone retired. He didn't have a Deron Williams to make him good. Look at the numbers that Boozer and Okur put up before Deron came to Utah. Deron Williams is the motor that keeps this machine going. That's why I think Boozer can be replaced. Look at the record that the Jazz had when it was just Boozer and Okur and AK was hurt and Deron wasn't there. Worst record in over 20 years. Boozer isn't that good, Deron makes him that good. I am starting to believe that they are going to keep AK this year incase Boozer walks they know they still have a very capable replacement.

Lo Porto
08-01-2008, 11:16 AM
I disagree completely. Boozer is a better player than AK hands down. He's no Malone, but the guy is still only 26. He's only going to get better.

As for AK, we did run more things his way to start last season. And you know what - it didn't help. We were 16-16 with tweaking more plays to run AK's way a little more. Then we got Korver, and we started running plays that worked for Deron, Boozer, and Okur with Korver sitting on the perimeter. And you know what - we won a very high percentage of our games from there on out. I like AK a lot, but this structured system does not bring out his strengths. When we had no other options, he looked really good because he had free reign.

AK's rant last summer made us tweak a system that got us to the Western Semi's in the 2007 Playoffs. To make him happy, we ran more plays his way and ultimately lost more games. Did it cost us a better record and possibly home court in the 2008 Playoffs? I'll let ya'll judge that. The numbers are there and the records are there. We've tried to give him more and more, but it doesn't work for him in our system.

bw2893
08-01-2008, 03:42 PM
"There is no trade scenario for AK other than the Wally deal that is going to work. Everyone just thinks that Deng, Smith, ect is just going to come in and score 18pts per game, ect. It's simply not going to happen. AK is a very, very good basketball player and it seems as though everyone on this board has forgotten that. He was an All-Star, had the only 5x5 games since the 70's, and was the best player in the European games this summer. He's that damn good. He's a better player than Deng, Smith, Lamar Odom, Shaun Marion, ect. It's just that when you're the fourth option and rarely get your number called it's hard to get into a rhythm and it makes you not want to work as hard on the other side of the ball as well. If we trade him for a guy like Smith or Deng, they're just gonna come in and be pissed b/c they aren't getting the ball enough and they're gonna end up being overpaid just like AK and they probably won't even put up the stats that he is. It's not like we're gonna be scoring 120pts per game. I'd just like to see us get Wally and then have Miles be the starter by next year. or simply trade him for nothing at all. The best guy to fit into our particular 3 needs is Shane Battier but that's not going to happen. We're not going to get any better by trading the guy and we can't keep our main guys if he stays to we're kind of in a pickle. At least if Boozer walks next year AK can move to the 4 and CJ can start at the 3 (this may actually be what the front office has envisioned). It would be a very long, athletic team but without a real low post presence. I dunno, I guess I'm just rambling now but there is no real way to get rid of AK other than the Wally deal and really make things happen. Nobody we can get for AK is going to be happy or be a savior thats going to give us that extra boost, hell it'll probably make us worse getting a Deng or Smith b/c they won't be happy and we'll be stuck with them and their long contract for even more time than AK."

It just sounds like you're making excuss after excuss for why AK breathes the way he breathes. You seem to know everything concerning trades with AK; who's better, who will score 18 pts per game, why AK struggles, etc. You're saying pretty much anything positive that may come from an AK trade simply isn't going to happen. Well, unless you're a basketball God, or maybe Kevin O' Connor, you simply have no clue as to whether everything you've said is going or not going to happen. But you state with such a surity. I find it a little amusing.

NOBODY we can get will give us a boost? Come on. And you know that becuase?...

Like you said, which I agree with, the options are few, but there are still good options out there. I don't know this, but I think Smith could easily be the missing piece the jazz need. so could Iguadala, or even Marion. But what I do know, which can't be arugued against is that the jazz roster the way it is right now is not enough to bring us a championship. Why? Becuase it's the exact roster (excluding Knight, whoopie) that we had last year. And there are at least three teams right off the top of my head who have made significant improvements to their roster's that will make them much more stronger against us. L.A., they don't need improvements they are better than us without them, but they have improved with Bynum. N.O.-Posey, Portland-crazy talent on their team if they can bring it together, Houston-Artest, which I conclude will make us a first round knock out if we face them again. Those are just teams I thought of at the top of my head, and I'm sure you already knew about them, so no matter how worshipped AK is by anyone, he is not a good fit for the Utah jazz at this point.

You and I both agree that the jazz are in a pickle, but come on, it's not that miserable. There are still possiblities out there that could improve the jazz, instead of setting them up for re-building. Trading AK I think is a must at this point, but I also think there are scenarios that could actually work too.

What do you think of a sign and trade for Iguadala?

Maybe AK, Collins, 2009 2nd round, for Iggi? We sign him for 5 years at 60 million with possible incenstives that could increase his contract. Whether he would be happy or not, I bet he would. Playing for a competitive team with a fat contract? I think he'd be fine. Then again, maybe that would never work, but there are options out there.
__________________

Lo Porto
08-01-2008, 03:52 PM
bw - I agree with you about everything except Iguodala. I would absolutely love to have him, but Philly wouldn't trade him for AK in a million years. AK is better suited at the PF, but Philly has a ton of money in Brand and Dalembert. If AK was making $10 million or less a year, they might look into it if Iggy was not going to re-sign. Iggy will re-sign with Philly, but he's just holding out for a bit more money like Okafor. We'll see Iggy sign sometime next week...

Lo Porto
08-01-2008, 03:57 PM
In my mind, Utah has 3 teams as trade partner options:

AK to Cleveland for Wally Szczerbiak (might have to take Varejao too)

AK to the Knicks for Jered Jeffries and Malik Rose (maybe get David Lee too?)

AK and a lot more to Atlanta for Josh Smith, Zaza Pachulia and Speedy Claxton

I don't see another team out there with the players, coaches and ownership that could be willing to take AK and his contract. Cleveland might because AK is better than Wally and they need to win now. Knicks might because D'Antoni has always wanted AK. Atlanta might because they want to get something or anything for Smith and AK could start next to Horford in the post.

jimbobjarree
08-01-2008, 04:28 PM
or let ak go to CSKA Moscow, let them buy out his contract and then use the cap on signing josh smith, thats if he's even interested in coming to Utah, or Iggy or gordon, but I dont know whether they would sign in Utah either.

JAZZNC
08-01-2008, 06:02 PM
"There is no trade scenario for AK other than the Wally deal that is going to work. Everyone just thinks that Deng, Smith, ect is just going to come in and score 18pts per game, ect. It's simply not going to happen. AK is a very, very good basketball player and it seems as though everyone on this board has forgotten that. He was an All-Star, had the only 5x5 games since the 70's, and was the best player in the European games this summer. He's that damn good. He's a better player than Deng, Smith, Lamar Odom, Shaun Marion, ect. It's just that when you're the fourth option and rarely get your number called it's hard to get into a rhythm and it makes you not want to work as hard on the other side of the ball as well. If we trade him for a guy like Smith or Deng, they're just gonna come in and be pissed b/c they aren't getting the ball enough and they're gonna end up being overpaid just like AK and they probably won't even put up the stats that he is. It's not like we're gonna be scoring 120pts per game. I'd just like to see us get Wally and then have Miles be the starter by next year. or simply trade him for nothing at all. The best guy to fit into our particular 3 needs is Shane Battier but that's not going to happen. We're not going to get any better by trading the guy and we can't keep our main guys if he stays to we're kind of in a pickle. At least if Boozer walks next year AK can move to the 4 and CJ can start at the 3 (this may actually be what the front office has envisioned). It would be a very long, athletic team but without a real low post presence. I dunno, I guess I'm just rambling now but there is no real way to get rid of AK other than the Wally deal and really make things happen. Nobody we can get for AK is going to be happy or be a savior thats going to give us that extra boost, hell it'll probably make us worse getting a Deng or Smith b/c they won't be happy and we'll be stuck with them and their long contract for even more time than AK."

It just sounds like you're making excuss after excuss for why AK breathes the way he breathes. You seem to know everything concerning trades with AK; who's better, who will score 18 pts per game, why AK struggles, etc. You're saying pretty much anything positive that may come from an AK trade simply isn't going to happen. Well, unless you're a basketball God, or maybe Kevin O' Connor, you simply have no clue as to whether everything you've said is going or not going to happen. But you state with such a surity. I find it a little amusing.

NOBODY we can get will give us a boost? Come on. And you know that becuase?...

Like you said, which I agree with, the options are few, but there are still good options out there. I don't know this, but I think Smith could easily be the missing piece the jazz need. so could Iguadala, or even Marion. But what I do know, which can't be arugued against is that the jazz roster the way it is right now is not enough to bring us a championship. Why? Becuase it's the exact roster (excluding Knight, whoopie) that we had last year. And there are at least three teams right off the top of my head who have made significant improvements to their roster's that will make them much more stronger against us. L.A., they don't need improvements they are better than us without them, but they have improved with Bynum. N.O.-Posey, Portland-crazy talent on their team if they can bring it together, Houston-Artest, which I conclude will make us a first round knock out if we face them again. Those are just teams I thought of at the top of my head, and I'm sure you already knew about them, so no matter how worshipped AK is by anyone, he is not a good fit for the Utah jazz at this point.

You and I both agree that the jazz are in a pickle, but come on, it's not that miserable. There are still possiblities out there that could improve the jazz, instead of setting them up for re-building. Trading AK I think is a must at this point, but I also think there are scenarios that could actually work too.

What do you think of a sign and trade for Iguadala?

Maybe AK, Collins, 2009 2nd round, for Iggi? We sign him for 5 years at 60 million with possible incenstives that could increase his contract. Whether he would be happy or not, I bet he would. Playing for a competitive team with a fat contract? I think he'd be fine. Then again, maybe that would never work, but there are options out there.
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I think he'd be a great addition to the team but I doubt that Philly would do that. I'd think that most teams that would be interested in AK would like to have him play the 4 and the Sixers are set there.

What I think a lot of people fail to realize is that when we trade for any of the aforementioned players they simply won't be putting up the stats that they are on their current teams. Reduce Smith, Deng, Marion, or AI to 5-6 shot attempts per game and see what kind of numbers they put up. I've heard some people in this thread say that AK isn't as good as Boozer, Okur, or Deron well neither is Smith, AI, Marion, or Deng. What makes you think that Sloan is just going to get one of those guys and say "Hey, I'll take plays away from our main guys just b/c this guy isn't AK". The system is in place I don't believe that anybody that comes in is going to get anymore shots than AK got last year. We have the big three and it's just not going to happen. Like I said in an earlier post we need a guy like Bowen or Battier to come in and play the 3 spot. A guy who plays D and never, ever needs the ball other than to hit an open three. Those options are just not there for us in any kind of trade that has been talked about. The only one I'd like to see happen is the Wally trade. Then we can resign all our main guys, have a guy in Miles who won't be making a ton of money playing the three and we'll be good to go.

However, AK could be a good insurance policy if Boozer or Okur decide to go elsewhere after next season. He's a proven commodity and no matter what anyone says, he's a damn good player. And the things about him not being a winner when he's the main guy, look at what he did the past two summers. His team won and they won a lot. MVP means more than good stats it means wins as well. And look at the records of the teams that all these "great" players that everyone wants to bring in b/c they are "winners" compared to AK. The Hawks are a joke, Bulls are a joke, Heat are a joke, Sixers had a losing record (I believe). None of those teams are worth a crap with those guys as main options so why again are they better than AK other than less money? At least if Boozer leaves we'd have a guy in AK who could play the 4 and none of the other guys could with the possible exception of Smith.

futureman
08-02-2008, 10:15 AM
AK is not a good insurance policy because he won't win jack crap for us. who cares if he won in russia he's still not good enough to win in the NBA I pray that russia would offer to buy him out for us. The only thing good about losing boozer and okur is that it gives us cap room for 2010. we could tank that season so we can have 2 very high draft picks as well. Hopefully 1&2. We should just sign everyone to a 1 year contract in order to stay under the cap. Losing boozer okur, korver and millsap won't be such a bad thing if we can sign a free agent along with 2 very high draft picks in 2010. by then AK will be in the last year of his hideous contract unable to hurt this team again.

jimbobjarree
08-02-2008, 10:31 AM
AK is not a good insurance policy because he won't win jack crap for us. who cares if he won in russia he's still not good enough to win in the NBA I pray that russia would offer to buy him out for us. The only thing good about losing boozer and okur is that it gives us cap room for 2010. we could tank that season so we can have 2 very high draft picks as well. Hopefully 1&2. We should just sign everyone to a 1 year contract in order to stay under the cap. Losing boozer okur, korver and millsap won't be such a bad thing if we can sign a free agent along with 2 very high draft picks in 2010. by then AK will be in the last year of his hideous contract unable to hurt this team again.

that looks like a tactic fresh out the sim league, would a top NBA team really do that?

JAZZNC
08-02-2008, 02:02 PM
AK is not a good insurance policy because he won't win jack crap for us. who cares if he won in russia he's still not good enough to win in the NBA I pray that russia would offer to buy him out for us. The only thing good about losing boozer and okur is that it gives us cap room for 2010. we could tank that season so we can have 2 very high draft picks as well. Hopefully 1&2. We should just sign everyone to a 1 year contract in order to stay under the cap. Losing boozer okur, korver and millsap won't be such a bad thing if we can sign a free agent along with 2 very high draft picks in 2010. by then AK will be in the last year of his hideous contract unable to hurt this team again.

I think that's a horrible idea. No way should we let everyone go and hope for some high draft picks. Not a good idea at all. It would probabyl work in NBA Live but not in real life.

jimbobjarree
08-02-2008, 04:02 PM
Deron has signed because he thinks this team can win, he would probably hand in a trade request as soon as he thought we were doing that

bw2893
08-02-2008, 05:38 PM
"AK is not a good insurance policy because he won't win jack crap for us. who cares if he won in russia he's still not good enough to win in the NBA I pray that russia would offer to buy him out for us. The only thing good about losing boozer and okur is that it gives us cap room for 2010. we could tank that season so we can have 2 very high draft picks as well. Hopefully 1&2. We should just sign everyone to a 1 year contract in order to stay under the cap. Losing boozer okur, korver and millsap won't be such a bad thing if we can sign a free agent along with 2 very high draft picks in 2010. by then AK will be in the last year of his hideous contract unable to hurt this team again."
__________________
GO TEAM!!!!

What a huge recipe for disaster! Seriously, like JAZZNC said, maybe when you're playing NBA live this works, but in the real world. No team with even a quarter of a brain would consider that. In fact, it's so bad I'm not even going to attempt to explain why, it's just that obvious.

bw2893
08-02-2008, 05:48 PM
Hey JAZZNC, you live in NC, so is there any chance that you know of Charlotte letting go of Wallace for an AK deal? You might not think that would be worth it, but I do. I was just wondering if there has ever been any buzz in the Charlotte area pertaining to letting Wallace go. Or is he an untouchable over there?

jimbobjarree
08-02-2008, 06:04 PM
I dont think so, dive into their forum and find out

futureman
08-02-2008, 07:03 PM
"AK is not a good insurance policy because he won't win jack crap for us. who cares if he won in russia he's still not good enough to win in the NBA I pray that russia would offer to buy him out for us. The only thing good about losing boozer and okur is that it gives us cap room for 2010. we could tank that season so we can have 2 very high draft picks as well. Hopefully 1&2. We should just sign everyone to a 1 year contract in order to stay under the cap. Losing boozer okur, korver and millsap won't be such a bad thing if we can sign a free agent along with 2 very high draft picks in 2010. by then AK will be in the last year of his hideous contract unable to hurt this team again."
__________________
GO TEAM!!!!

What a huge recipe for disaster! Seriously, like JAZZNC said, maybe when you're playing NBA live this works, but in the real world. No team with even a quarter of a brain would consider that. In fact, it's so bad I'm not even going to attempt to explain why, it's just that obvious.

I would rather have cap room than complete junk on the team. and if the jazz aren't going to take any risks it's going to come down to this anyway. If we lose boozer just resign everyone to 1 year deals so we can get something in 2010 in order too keep our star player here. It's pretty obvious that boozer will be gone next year and AK won't fill that void. in fact there are about 7 players I can name that are role player that are much better than he is. Battier,Harrington, Artest, Posey, Prince, Bowen, Camby, Kaman, and Scola are all much better and would probably help us out alot more without boozer on the team. Do you guys really have to wait until next season before you realize that AK is killing our team and will make us into a lottery team even if we don't tank next season. He will be a total stat stuffer and won't win us 20 games that season in doing so just like he has done before.

JAZZNC
08-02-2008, 09:12 PM
Hey JAZZNC, you live in NC, so is there any chance that you know of Charlotte letting go of Wallace for an AK deal? You might not think that would be worth it, but I do. I was just wondering if there has ever been any buzz in the Charlotte area pertaining to letting Wallace go. Or is he an untouchable over there?

I unfortunately live about as far from Charlotte as possible but our local news is all over anything that happens either Bobcat or Panther related and I've neither heard nor seen anything about it. I personally think that he's there best player but I dunno how their front office sees things. What would you guys think of trying to get Jason Richardson. He'd have to play the 2 spot but the guy can flat our shoot and get to the rim. I think he'd be a nice addition to the team but I dunno if AK would get it done and I'm sure we'd have to take other players to make the salaries match.

bw2893
08-03-2008, 08:17 AM
"I unfortunately live about as far from Charlotte as possible but our local news is all over anything that happens either Bobcat or Panther related and I've neither heard nor seen anything about it. I personally think that he's there best player but I dunno how their front office sees things. What would you guys think of trying to get Jason Richardson. He'd have to play the 2 spot but the guy can flat our shoot and get to the rim. I think he'd be a nice addition to the team but I dunno if AK would get it done and I'm sure we'd have to take other players to make the salaries match."

I've never really thought about J. Rich. I think he's a really underated player throughout the rest of the nba, becuase you don't really hear much about him other than his skill at the 3 line.

I'm sure J. Rich would be crazy awesome in a jazz uniform, but what would happen to our 3 if AK leaves for him? I don't think Korver, Harpring, or Brewer could handle it full time. But I don't know really.

kanersen
08-03-2008, 09:38 AM
raptor's fan here
i like AK
but i don't really see how you can say AK's jumper is so much better then Deng's when Deng has one of the best mid range game's in the NBA. I mean Deng is a guy that shoot's 50% almost exclusively by midrange jumpers, and that is unheard of. I have watched Deng play on numerous occasions, as I have AK, and believe me, AK isn't even in the same league as Deng when it comes to his midrange J

i'm not saying Deng's the better player
they are both good players, just different, and one would be more important then the other depending on what kind of role a perspective team needs from them

but don't compare AK's midrange game to Deng's, cause its just not close enough to compare

AK gets paid a ridiculous contract for almost every reason outside his jumper
Deng is going to get paid a ridiculous contract almost exclusively based on his jumper

jimbobjarree
08-03-2008, 10:18 AM
yeah but Deng never drained endless amount of 3s in the clutchest of times against the western conference champions.

kanersen
08-03-2008, 01:28 PM
your right, he drained endless jumpers in the clutchest of times against the reigning nba champions in which chicago actually won the series, last time Deng was in the playoffs

its not deng's fault he doesn't play with players the calibre of williams and boozer to be in the playoffs every year

the memory of nba fans are fickle

bw2893
08-03-2008, 01:40 PM
"raptor's fan here
i like AK
but i don't really see how you can say AK's jumper is so much better then Deng's when Deng has one of the best mid range game's in the NBA. I mean Deng is a guy that shoot's 50% almost exclusively by midrange jumpers, and that is unheard of. I have watched Deng play on numerous occasions, as I have AK, and believe me, AK isn't even in the same league as Deng when it comes to his midrange J

i'm not saying Deng's the better player
they are both good players, just different, and one would be more important then the other depending on what kind of role a perspective team needs from them

but don't compare AK's midrange game to Deng's, cause its just not close enough to compare

AK gets paid a ridiculous contract for almost every reason outside his jumper
Deng is going to get paid a ridiculous contract almost exclusively based on his jumper"

Agreed.

bw2893
08-03-2008, 01:50 PM
"I would rather have cap room than complete junk on the team. and if the jazz aren't going to take any risks it's going to come down to this anyway. If we lose boozer just resign everyone to 1 year deals so we can get something in 2010 in order too keep our star player here. It's pretty obvious that boozer will be gone next year and AK won't fill that void. in fact there are about 7 players I can name that are role player that are much better than he is. Battier,Harrington, Artest, Posey, Prince, Bowen, Camby, Kaman, and Scola are all much better and would probably help us out alot more without boozer on the team. Do you guys really have to wait until next season before you realize that AK is killing our team and will make us into a lottery team even if we don't tank next season. He will be a total stat stuffer and won't win us 20 games that season in doing so just like he has done before."

Well, it's plain to see you're a glass is half empty kind of guy. That's fine, and I agree about AK killing the team due to his contract and the need to trade him. I don't think that's glass is half empty mentality, that's reality. But where I am confused is your recipe for disastor which I call it, of KEEPING AK and letting Boozer, Okur, Korver, and Milsap go for two high draft picks? Like what was said, in reality, that is an absolute disastor, we wouldn't get two picks first of all and it WOULD be a very bad thing losing those players for an agent and draft picks. Williams would be gone way before we knew it and it would take at least 3 seasons to recover. No, getting rid of Boozer, Okur, and Milsap should be non-options for the jazz, unless we get stars like them in replacement, not developing rookies. If we could get stars back, so be it, but I have my reservations of that happening.
So according to your post the jazz have two options in one; getting rid of AK, or two; losing more than half our role players and HOPE we get good draft picks and then HOPE they pan out after at least a few seasons. I'm going with the first, lets get rid of AK.
__________________

jimbobjarree
08-03-2008, 02:02 PM
agreed, its sad to see thats the only real option we have

futureman
08-04-2008, 09:51 AM
"I would rather have cap room than complete junk on the team. and if the jazz aren't going to take any risks it's going to come down to this anyway. If we lose boozer just resign everyone to 1 year deals so we can get something in 2010 in order too keep our star player here. It's pretty obvious that boozer will be gone next year and AK won't fill that void. in fact there are about 7 players I can name that are role player that are much better than he is. Battier,Harrington, Artest, Posey, Prince, Bowen, Camby, Kaman, and Scola are all much better and would probably help us out alot more without boozer on the team. Do you guys really have to wait until next season before you realize that AK is killing our team and will make us into a lottery team even if we don't tank next season. He will be a total stat stuffer and won't win us 20 games that season in doing so just like he has done before."

Well, it's plain to see you're a glass is half empty kind of guy. That's fine, and I agree about AK killing the team due to his contract and the need to trade him. I don't think that's glass is half empty mentality, that's reality. But where I am confused is your recipe for disastor which I call it, of KEEPING AK and letting Boozer, Okur, Korver, and Milsap go for two high draft picks? Like what was said, in reality, that is an absolute disastor, we wouldn't get two picks first of all and it WOULD be a very bad thing losing those players for an agent and draft picks. Williams would be gone way before we knew it and it would take at least 3 seasons to recover. No, getting rid of Boozer, Okur, and Milsap should be non-options for the jazz, unless we get stars like them in replacement, not developing rookies. If we could get stars back, so be it, but I have my reservations of that happening.
So according to your post the jazz have two options in one; getting rid of AK, or two; losing more than half our role players and HOPE we get good draft picks and then HOPE they pan out after at least a few seasons. I'm going with the first, lets get rid of AK.
__________________

I wasn't implying we get rid of Boozer. I was talking about if Boozer doesnt resign with us next year. Anyway I don't think anybody gets me on this issue. All I'm gonna say is that the jazz are gonna rue the day they didn't accept the marion offer last summer.

Lo Porto
08-04-2008, 10:37 AM
3 things -

1. I would rather have Deng at $11 million a year for 6 years than AK at $15+ for 3 years.

2. Trading AK is priority #1. He looked playing the 4 against team USA, and that's his natural position. However, he's not the 4 for Utah. Trade him...

3. Charlotte is very willing to deal Gerald Wallace. My friend works for the organization and he said that they are willing if not trying to trade Wallace to improve their big men. They've been trying scenarios since before the draft. I'd love Gerald for AK, but we'd have to take other contracts to make it happen.

Lo Porto
08-04-2008, 10:39 AM
Oops - lost a word there. AK looked good against Team USA. AK is a very good player at the 4.

jimbobjarree
08-04-2008, 11:35 AM
your right, he drained endless jumpers in the clutchest of times against the reigning nba champions in which chicago actually won the series, last time Deng was in the playoffs

its not deng's fault he doesn't play with players the calibre of williams and boozer to be in the playoffs every year

the memory of nba fans are fickle

haha I wasn't slamming on Deng, I'm British so he's getting a lot more limelight over here now, though alot of people still dont know who he is. I missed the playoff series when he did that, and haven't really watched much of him to be honest, but he does have a good shot yes, my memory flashed back to AK's clutch time 3-fest.

jimbobjarree
08-04-2008, 11:37 AM
I wasn't implying we get rid of Boozer. I was talking about if Boozer doesnt resign with us next year. Anyway I don't think anybody gets me on this issue. All I'm gonna say is that the jazz are gonna rue the day they didn't accept the marion offer last summer.

Yep and why didnt Larry pull the trigger on the Marion deal, because he thought we'd have AK for a longer time, the exact reason why we need him out, which begs the question does he even pay attention to the teams finance situation.

Marion would have been better as well I think, no disrespect to AK though

Seventh King
08-04-2008, 04:14 PM
3 things -

1. I would rather have Deng at $11 million a year for 6 years than AK at $15+ for 3 years.

2. Trading AK is priority #1. He looked playing the 4 against team USA, and that's his natural position. However, he's not the 4 for Utah. Trade him...

3. Charlotte is very willing to deal Gerald Wallace. My friend works for the organization and he said that they are willing if not trying to trade Wallace to improve their big men. They've been trying scenarios since before the draft. I'd love Gerald for AK, but we'd have to take other contracts to make it happen.

How about a Gooden and Nocioni for AK trade? AK could be moved to the 4 in Chi, whereas Gooden and Nocioni would both fit (without any complaining)your current system? AK, while not a #1 scoring option would have plenty of touches in Chicago, while Gooden could score (and is an expiring contract) and Noc could bring the energy?

bw2893
08-04-2008, 10:18 PM
"3 things -

1. I would rather have Deng at $11 million a year for 6 years than AK at $15+ for 3 years.

2. Trading AK is priority #1. He looked playing the 4 against team USA, and that's his natural position. However, he's not the 4 for Utah. Trade him...

3. Charlotte is very willing to deal Gerald Wallace. My friend works for the organization and he said that they are willing if not trying to trade Wallace to improve their big men. They've been trying scenarios since before the draft. I'd love Gerald for AK, but we'd have to take other contracts to make it happen."

It's actually almost 12 million a year, but still I agree on rather having him than AK. Did you know that Deng has now the biggest and most expensive contract the bulls have every given out including to Jordan? That just shows how BIG AK's contract is. Holy crap, the jazz FO has been known as a smart, conservative, FO, but paying AK that?!! I don't care if they thought the team was going to be built around him or not, that was WAY too much money. I wonder how much it is in rubles?

So Charlotte wants to upgrade thier bigs? Even though they just signed Okafur? Well, what if we gave them AK, Collins, and our second round 2009? Also, what contracts would they want to give us? On top of Wallace of course.

bw2893
08-04-2008, 10:25 PM
"How about a Gooden and Nocioni for AK trade? AK could be moved to the 4 in Chi, whereas Gooden and Nocioni would both fit (without any complaining)your current system? AK, while not a #1 scoring option would have plenty of touches in Chicago, while Gooden could score (and is an expiring contract) and Noc could bring the energy?"

I actually wouldn't mind that trade. The contracts work, and I like both Gooden and Noch. Gooden is pretty much an upgraded Milsap who could give us a lot of high quality back-up to Okur and Boozer. He did start for the Cavs as well and could even play the SF depending on who were up against. Noch isn't as good as AK, but he's much better than Wally S, or anyone else that has been mentioned in a sign and trade for AK to get salary cap space. Plus, Gooden's contract expires next season, and Noch is being paid a relatively cheap 8 mill a year for 5 years.

I like it. It clears space, and we get some pretty good talent in return.