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View Full Version : 2009 Raptors - how to get Kobe to Toronto



B2B
07-28-2008, 09:53 AM
When I first joined PSD I made a thread about BC having alot of interest in the 2009 offseason. In the past BC has made efforts to try and sign Kobe to the Suns but to no avail. With most teams looking at Lebron in 2010 do the Raps have an opportunity to snag the best player in the game Kobe from the Laker's with all other teams looking past him?

While the 'Summer of LeBron' gets most of the headlines, the (potential) 2009 NBA Free-Agent class boasts some upper-echelon talent as well. Even with Elton Brand and Baron Davis opting out last month, as opposed to becoming unrestricted in 2009, there will be some great players and big-time names up for grabs next summer.

1) Kobe Bryant Los Angeles Lakers
Early Termination Option: owed $47.8 million thru 2011
You may have heard of this guy, he's pretty good. However, attempting to predict what Kobe might be thinking or which way he might be leaning 11 months from now is an exercise in futility. A year ago at this time, after all the public posturing and trade demands, most everyone assumed Kobe would choose to bolt once he had the opportunity to leave LA freely, but now he is coming off his first MVP award and a (albeit disappointing) trip to the NBA Finals. With a huge, potentially dominating frontline of Lamar Odom, Pau Gasol, and Andrew Bynum, the future seems very promising in La La Land. Thus, you have to believe Kobe would be content finishing his career in LA, but as we have learned with Kobe, nothing can be taken for granted. There will be some added pressure on the rest of his teammates and the organization as a whole to build off and improve upon the success they experienced last season. If the Lakers were to take a step backwards in '08-'09, things could get dramatic in Hollywood. The most likely scenario is him opting out of his current contract and, and after some harmless flirting with Chicago and a few other teams, eventually agreeing to another long-term max-money contract with the Lakers. Either way, it should be interesting to see this drama unfold. As we saw with Baron Davis and Elton Brand last month, shocking decisions can be made in the 11th hour.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9608

The part that I bolded is what I'm interested in. I believe if the Lakers take a step back, Kobe will do alot more than flirt with the open Market because he wants to win & a Laker's regression would all but see him leave as I believe he was deadly serious to be traded to the Bulls prior to the Laker's success in 08.

Why the Raptor's?

Besides BC's committment to win, the Raps have compiled a great front court & have a quality PG but lack that talented wing player to put them over the edge, (Kobe is that player) & with BC convincing him of that maybe he bites.

Imagine a team of

O'Neal
Bosh
Moon
Kobe
Calderon

You get my point.

How r Raps going to get Kobe & retain O'Neal?.

If you look at our roster you will note that in 2009 our salary situation looks like this.

On the books - Bosh,Humphries,Kapono,Calderon,Jawai,Ukic,Adams = 34 mil & then the rest of the team comes off the books, so we will have money to toss around.

We look to entice Kobe with a lucrative offer with the lure of having a team that can compete & hopefully he will accept bringing us to this point

?/Jawai
Bosh/Hump
?/Kapono
Kobe/Adams
Calderon/Ukic

We then resign O'Neal who I would go out on a limb & say would take a pay cut because after hearing him talk, he just wants to win right now & if we get Kobe that will all but ensure his return, if he has a succesfull season. Which brings us to this stage.

O'Neal - 10 - mil (he may accept less)/ Jawai 400,000
Bosh - 14 mil / Hump 3 mil
?/Kapono - 5 mil
Kobe - 24 mil /Adams - 400,000
Calderon - 8 mil /Ukic - 1.5 mil

= 64 mil roughly

2008 salary cap was set at 58.6 mil & tax level at 71.1 mil. I don't know how much of an increase but working off of this years cap I estimate we would have roughly about 8 mil to resign Moon and fill out the remaining Roster spots.

With the team shaping up I think the ability to lure the correct role players won't be too difficult. I would assume we could resign Moon at a reasonable price seeing that we gave him an opportunity, he may be greatfull towards us for giving him that opportunity & sign relatively cheap.

We come to this point

O'Neal/Jawai
Bosh/Hump
Moon/Kapono
Kobe/Adams
Calderon/Ukic

Pending on Moon's contract we would have roughly 4 mil to sign a decent big & 2 more rotation players.

Will Raptor ownership enter luxury tax?.

Mile High Champ
07-28-2008, 10:29 AM
You have done your homework and you usually do it very well. But in the end it comes down to more than money and cap space. I dont see Kobe ever coming north of the border when the life he coud have in LA, Chicago etc far exceeds what Toronto could offer (in his eyes I imagine), I dont see a player like Kobe ever signing with Toronto. Good thinking though but sadly no Kobe in toronto anytime soon.

travesy3
07-28-2008, 11:27 AM
I doubt any big FA ever comes to Canada unless we overpay or already have the title locked up we are that stacked.

nstojic
07-28-2008, 11:37 AM
much like the '08 jays, this looks good on paper! but it would never happen because kobe would never want to come here... who knows, i guess anything can happen.. as much as i dislike kobe and his massive ego, one can't deny his talent..

aman_13
07-28-2008, 12:02 PM
I am confused, don't we already have O'neal and Bargnani locked up for next season? Like i said i am confused, so can somebody help me?

B2B
07-28-2008, 12:23 PM
I am confused, don't we already have O'neal and Bargnani locked up for next season? Like i said i am confused, so can somebody help me?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=FreeAgents-09-10&campaign=rsssrch&source=nba+free+agents

2009 free agents

RESTRICTED
Hassan Adams (T)
Joey Graham
Jamario Moon

UNRESTRICTED
Jermaine O'Neal (P)
Anthony Parker

2010 free agents

RESTRICTED
Bargnani

UNRESTRICTED
Chris Bosh (P)
Kris Humphries (P)
Jason Kapono

RaPToR_FeVeR
07-28-2008, 12:45 PM
Considering O'Neal is making 22 Million the next two seasons. I don't see him taking a 12 M dollar pay cut.

If anything I see him signing a new contract in 2010 for 15 M which allows Raptors to resign Bosh for more $$$.

RapsFan4Life
07-28-2008, 01:17 PM
the math looks great and i think i would pop champagne if kobe signed with toronto, but bosh is not happy being a secondary man ... as he improves his game he needs to be a franchise player and kobe will not let that happen, on paper the kobe looks amazing, but one player will not win a championship ... only a team and a team with bosh and jermain and kobe just wont work out ... there needs to be 1 star and 2-3 great roll players, look at peirce a star and KG, allen roll players, and im not saying paul is better then KG cuz that is not true, but KG is happy to do the dirty work and be a roll player while peirce does his star thing, i dont think bosh or oneal will be happy in a role player situation were kobe gets the spot light, plus there is no way kobe wants to live in canada . . .

B2B
07-28-2008, 01:27 PM
O'Neal & Bargs both have options. O'Neal has a player option Bargs has a team option. If BC can work something out with O'Neal to restructure his contract.

Restricted

Bargs = $6,527,490 team option

Unrestricted

O'Neal = $22,995,000 player option
Parker = $4,550,000

?/Jawai
Bosh/Hump
?/Kapono
?/Adams
Calderon/Ukic

Then we have to sign our restricted players

Bargs = 6 mil team option
Moon = resign
Graham = 3,441,104 Qualifying offer
Adams = 400,000 pick up his option
Ukic = 1.5 mil
Jawai = 400,000

If O'Neal picks up his option and Bargs is also picked up

O'Neal = $22,995,000 player option
Parker = $4,550,000
Bargs = $6,527,490 team option
Kapono = $6,212,960
Ukic = $1,500,000
Adams = $400,000
Jawai = $400,000

Total Salary = 47,287,872 going by the cap set this year 58.6 mil & tax 71.1

= 11 mil cap space

If O'Neal opts out to restructure his contract to help make us a contender because he wants to win.

= 34 mil cap space

Sign Kobe 22 mil 3y
Sign O'Neal 10 mil 3y

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/toronto.htm

O'Neal -10 mil/Jawai -400,000 (C) = 10,400,000
Bosh -14mil/hump -3 mil (PF) = 17,000,000
Moon -3 mil/Kapono -6.2 mil (SF) = 9,000,000
Kobe -22 mil/Adams -400,000 (SG) = 22,400,000
Calderon - 8mil/Ukic -1,500,000 (PG) = 9,500,000

= 68,300,000

luxury tax was set at 71 mil in 08 a difference of 3 mil roughly with 3 players to fill out the remaining roster. If we keep Bargs we would enter luxury tax.

Will Raptor owners pay luxury tax?.

O'Neal -10 mil/Hump -3mil/Jawai -400,000 (C) = 13,400,000
Bosh -14mil/Bargs -6.5mil (PF) = 20,500,000
Moon -3 mil/Kapono -6.2 mil/Graham -3.4 mil (SF) = 12,400,000
Kobe -22 mil/Adams -400,000/Combo Guard 1.5 mil (SG) = 23,900,000
Calderon - 8mil/Ukic -1,500,000 (PG) = 9,500,000

= 79,700,000

8 mil over luxury tax.

nstojic
07-28-2008, 01:28 PM
^^ tell that to KG's ego... hate listening to that guy talk

B2B
07-28-2008, 01:58 PM
Considering O'Neal is making 22 Million the next two seasons. I don't see him taking a 12 M dollar pay cut.

If anything I see him signing a new contract in 2010 for 15 M which allows Raptors to resign Bosh for more $$$.

It all depends on how bad he wants to win. If he wants to win bad enough he would sign for less.

Mile High Champ
07-28-2008, 02:12 PM
It all depends on how bad he wants to win. If he wants to win bad enough he would sign for less.

There are probably half a dozen teams that could offer what you are offering to Kobe. The core of some other teams is better than ours. There are a lot of other teams going after Kobe's talents.

aman_13
07-28-2008, 02:13 PM
Thanks B2B, i forgot about the options.

B2B
07-28-2008, 02:31 PM
There are probably half a dozen teams that could offer what you are offering to Kobe. The core of some other teams is better than ours. There are a lot of other teams going after Kobe's talents.

List the teams for me please besides the Lakers that will have 20 mil to offer.

aman_13
07-28-2008, 02:46 PM
I find it hard to believe that JO would opt out, it is possible. However 22 million, like Chuck would say, ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!! I do like your thinking but maybe Rip Hamilton would be a bit more reasonable. Hamilton would come cheaper and O'neal would not have to take a big pay cut.

B2B
07-28-2008, 02:58 PM
Someone copied and pasted my post on ****** & is not responding to peoples questions so I will.

The poster said

Here's whats wrong

1. Bargnani's money?
2. O'Neal is on the books till 2010.
3. When 2010 comes around and Bosh is off books, we won't have enough money to resign him without going Luxury - won't happen.
4. Your addition is wrong. The whole 'O'Neal 10 mil (he may accept less)... use a calculator to add it up and you get $66.3 million. Not sure how you figured it was "64 mil roughly'. Fail.
5. Will Raptors Owners (MLSE) enter luxury tax? No way in hell.

6. And this is the biggest point of them all. Guarantee that there is no way that Kobe come to Canada. I'm an optimistic person but even I know the thought of Kobe in Toronto is crazy.

1, Bargnani is on a team option. If he fails to produce this year raps can choose to let him walk in order to sign kobe or the alternative is to enter luxury tax.

2, O"Neal has a player option. Under the assumption that he wants to win, he would opt out to restructure his contract for less in order to sign Kobe.

3, Bosh has a 17 mil player option in 2010. He doesn't have to opt out that's a 2mil difference than what he is receiveing now. I'm sure the roster could be structured to avoid tax if he picks up his option. I don't see why he wouldn't pick up his option to be apart of a winning team.

4, My addition in my first post was not accurate because I was quickly guessing numbers as a rough estimate. Check my second posting of salaries for a more accurate depiction.

Questions 5,6 r personal opinion so I won't buisness to respond.

B2B
07-28-2008, 03:11 PM
I appreciate the effort you made but, the whole premise is flawed. Your idea is based upon O'Neal's contract expiring and resigning for less so that we can sign Kobe. O'Neal's contract doesn't expire until the 2010 offseason.

O'Neal has a player option. If he wants to win he will opt out and sign for less. Yes that's the premiss of my post, will he do it?. I don't know but I would if I wanted to win & I'm assuming he would to if he wants to win as bad as his interviews suggest.

ink
07-28-2008, 03:12 PM
Nicely thought out B2B. :clap: But I wouldn't want the Kobe factor on the team. Not unless there is a player (like Shaq) that he would have to defer to. IMO Kobe will always be best when the talent on the team around him is equal to him -- i.e. the Shaq era Lakers and this year's Team USA.

B2B
07-28-2008, 03:15 PM
Nicely thought out B2B. :clap: But I wouldn't want the Kobe factor on the team. Not unless there is a player (like Shaq) that he would have to defer to. IMO Kobe will always be best when the talent on the team around him is equal to him -- i.e. the Shaq era Lakers and this year's Team USA.

Someone copied the post to another forum & is not responding to the meat of the post wich is the contract options & the premiss of winning by opting to take less. I cannot defend my point

ink
07-28-2008, 03:17 PM
Someone copied the post to another forum & is not responding to the meat of the post wich is the contract options & the premiss of winning to take less.

If someone has plagiarized you, send a note to the mods on that site. They should take it down. We definitely would here if someone plagiarized and re-posted on PSD.

Question: in post #17, above mine, I can't understand who said what. Could you use quotes if you're responding to someone? It's unclear what you're saying.

And I still think a major point is that Kobe is not a good fit for the Raptors in many ways.

B2B
07-28-2008, 03:20 PM
If someone has plagiarized you, send a note to the mods on that site. They should take it down. We definitely would here if someone plagiarized and re-posted on PSD.

Question: in post #17, above mine, I can't understand who said what. Could you use quotes if you're responding to someone? It's unclear what you're saying.

And I still think a major point is that Kobe is not a good fit for the Raptors in many ways.

It's from another forum not this one. I responded here because I don't have an account on that forum. I don't care that he copied my post I just wish he would clarify the point better.

huidogg
07-30-2008, 03:04 AM
When I first joined PSD I made a thread about BC having alot of interest in the 2009 offseason. In the past BC has made efforts to try and sign Kobe to the Suns but to no avail. With most teams looking at Lebron in 2010 do the Raps have an opportunity to snag the best player in the game Kobe from the Laker's with all other teams looking past him?

While the 'Summer of LeBron' gets most of the headlines, the (potential) 2009 NBA Free-Agent class boasts some upper-echelon talent as well. Even with Elton Brand and Baron Davis opting out last month, as opposed to becoming unrestricted in 2009, there will be some great players and big-time names up for grabs next summer.

1) Kobe Bryant Los Angeles Lakers
Early Termination Option: owed $47.8 million thru 2011
You may have heard of this guy, he's pretty good. However, attempting to predict what Kobe might be thinking or which way he might be leaning 11 months from now is an exercise in futility. A year ago at this time, after all the public posturing and trade demands, most everyone assumed Kobe would choose to bolt once he had the opportunity to leave LA freely, but now he is coming off his first MVP award and a (albeit disappointing) trip to the NBA Finals. With a huge, potentially dominating frontline of Lamar Odom, Pau Gasol, and Andrew Bynum, the future seems very promising in La La Land. Thus, you have to believe Kobe would be content finishing his career in LA, but as we have learned with Kobe, nothing can be taken for granted. There will be some added pressure on the rest of his teammates and the organization as a whole to build off and improve upon the success they experienced last season. If the Lakers were to take a step backwards in '08-'09, things could get dramatic in Hollywood. The most likely scenario is him opting out of his current contract and, and after some harmless flirting with Chicago and a few other teams, eventually agreeing to another long-term max-money contract with the Lakers. Either way, it should be interesting to see this drama unfold. As we saw with Baron Davis and Elton Brand last month, shocking decisions can be made in the 11th hour.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9608

The part that I bolded is what I'm interested in. I believe if the Lakers take a step back, Kobe will do alot more than flirt with the open Market because he wants to win & a Laker's regression would all but see him leave as I believe he was deadly serious to be traded to the Bulls prior to the Laker's success in 08.

Why the Raptor's?

Besides BC's committment to win, the Raps have compiled a great front court & have a quality PG but lack that talented wing player to put them over the edge, (Kobe is that player) & with BC convincing him of that maybe he bites.

Imagine a team of

O'Neal
Bosh
Moon
Kobe
Calderon

You get my point.

How r Raps going to get Kobe & retain O'Neal?.

If you look at our roster you will note that in 2009 our salary situation looks like this.

On the books - Bosh,Humphries,Kapono,Calderon,Jawai,Ukic,Adams = 34 mil & then the rest of the team comes off the books, so we will have money to toss around.

We look to entice Kobe with a lucrative offer with the lure of having a team that can compete & hopefully he will accept bringing us to this point

?/Jawai
Bosh/Hump
?/Kapono
Kobe/Adams
Calderon/Ukic

We then resign O'Neal who I would go out on a limb & say would take a pay cut because after hearing him talk, he just wants to win right now & if we get Kobe that will all but ensure his return, if he has a succesfull season. Which brings us to this stage.

O'Neal - 10 - mil (he may accept less)/ Jawai 400,000
Bosh - 14 mil / Hump 3 mil
?/Kapono - 5 mil
Kobe - 24 mil /Adams - 400,000
Calderon - 8 mil /Ukic - 1.5 mil

= 64 mil roughly

2008 salary cap was set at 58.6 mil & tax level at 71.1 mil. I don't know how much of an increase but working off of this years cap I estimate we would have roughly about 8 mil to resign Moon and fill out the remaining Roster spots.

With the team shaping up I think the ability to lure the correct role players won't be too difficult. I would assume we could resign Moon at a reasonable price seeing that we gave him an opportunity, he may be greatfull towards us for giving him that opportunity & sign relatively cheap.

We come to this point

O'Neal/Jawai
Bosh/Hump
Moon/Kapono
Kobe/Adams
Calderon/Ukic

Pending on Moon's contract we would have roughly 4 mil to sign a decent big & 2 more rotation players.

Will Raptor ownership enter luxury tax?.

Hey man, good homework you done. But no offence, but i think you spent too much time dreaming on fantasy instead of facing the reality. Face the reality, KOBE WILL NEVER COME TO THE RAPTORS, I MEAN NEVER! no offence to the raptors, but they are not a market that attract mega names such as kobe and lebron. So i think in a way you are wasting your time with all of the above. Anyways, try and face the reality and figure out how to actually fill in the holes we need to filled in, instead of thinking of something THAT WILL NEVER gonna to happen.

Thanks, really appreciate it!

star
07-30-2008, 07:39 AM
O'Neal & Bargs both have options. O'Neal has a player option Bargs has a team option. If BC can work something out with O'Neal to restructure his contract.

Restricted

Bargs = $6,527,490 team option

Unrestricted

O'Neal = $22,995,000 player option
Parker = $4,550,000

?/Jawai
Bosh/Hump
?/Kapono
?/Adams
Calderon/Ukic

Then we have to sign our restricted players

Bargs = 6 mil team option
Moon = resign
Graham = 3,441,104 Qualifying offer
Adams = 400,000 pick up his option
Ukic = 1.5 mil
Jawai = 400,000

If O'Neal picks up his option and Bargs is also picked up

O'Neal = $22,995,000 player option
Parker = $4,550,000
Bargs = $6,527,490 team option
Kapono = $6,212,960
Ukic = $1,500,000
Adams = $400,000
Jawai = $400,000

Total Salary = 47,287,872 going by the cap set this year 58.6 mil & tax 71.1

= 11 mil cap space

If O'Neal opts out to restructure his contract to help make us a contender because he wants to win.

= 34 mil cap space

Sign Kobe 22 mil 3y
Sign O'Neal 10 mil 3y

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/toronto.htm

O'Neal -10 mil/Jawai -400,000 (C) = 10,400,000
Bosh -14mil/hump -3 mil (PF) = 17,000,000
Moon -3 mil/Kapono -6.2 mil (SF) = 9,000,000
Kobe -22 mil/Adams -400,000 (SG) = 22,400,000
Calderon - 8mil/Ukic -1,500,000 (PG) = 9,500,000

= 68,300,000

luxury tax was set at 71 mil in 08 a difference of 3 mil roughly with 3 players to fill out the remaining roster. If we keep Bargs we would enter luxury tax.

Will Raptor owners pay luxury tax?.

O'Neal -10 mil/Hump -3mil/Jawai -400,000 (C) = 13,400,000
Bosh -14mil/Bargs -6.5mil (PF) = 20,500,000
Moon -3 mil/Kapono -6.2 mil/Graham -3.4 mil (SF) = 12,400,000
Kobe -22 mil/Adams -400,000/Combo Guard 1.5 mil (SG) = 23,900,000
Calderon - 8mil/Ukic -1,500,000 (PG) = 9,500,000

= 79,700,000

8 mil over luxury tax.

o'niel isnt going to opt out of 22 mill .... why would he ... AFTER his 2 years he may sign for less but hes going to get his money first.

B2B
07-30-2008, 10:35 AM
Hey man, good homework you done. But no offence, but i think you spent too much time dreaming on fantasy instead of facing the reality. Face the reality, KOBE WILL NEVER COME TO THE RAPTORS, I MEAN NEVER! no offence to the raptors, but they are not a market that attract mega names such as kobe and lebron. So i think in a way you are wasting your time with all of the above. Anyways, try and face the reality and figure out how to actually fill in the holes we need to filled in, instead of thinking of something THAT WILL NEVER gonna to happen.

Thanks, really appreciate it!

Fantasy is being unrealistic, I don't think I am being unrealistic.

Will Kobe ever come to TO?. The chances of that may be slim to none but here's why it's not fantasy to me.

Colangelo from the time he became the Raps GM expressed an interest in the 2009 free agent class saying he wants as much free cap space as possible. Why? & for Who?.

Top free agents in 2009

1, Kobe
2, Boozer
3, Marion
4, Nash
5, Okur
6, Iverson
7, Artest
8, Odom
9, Turkoglu
10, Bynum

Who?.

Raps position of weakness is on the wing position
Parker expires in 09 leaving us with Moon,Graham,Kapono,Adams

Looking at the top free agents who makes the most sense & would encourage BC to want "as much cap space as possible" in his own words.

Kobe just stands out to me as the most logical target no matter how unattainable most of you think he is.

Kobe - Hard to obtain, does he want to play in Canada?. We would have the money & team capable of winning to entice him if O'Neals contract is restructured.
Marion - I can see him as an option
Artest - We could've got him this year if we really wanted
Iverson - To old to invest in

In the past BC has made a play for Kobe to play for the Suns but to no avail but this to me indicates who he could possibly be saving up for as the past shows he has had interest in obtaining him. I think it's not fantasy but a possibility. With our need for a good wing player, Kobe & Marion look like the most logical targets no matter how far fetched some of you may think it is I think it's Kobe 1st on BC's list. He would be foolish to not atleast try, in my opinion. I really hope he doesn't have the mind set most of you seem to have and say why try for Kobe because he doesn't want to play for a Canadian team. That kind of thinking sets limitations, try before you say it cannot be done, put forth an offer before before you say he would not accept.

ie Lebron in 2010 - New Jersey is rumored to have an inside track on Lebron because of Jay Z, does that mean no other team will try for him?. I can assure you NY, Miami among other teams will put offers on the table in hope of obtaining him though people already invision him as a net because of Jay Z much like the Raps will be able to put an offer on the table in the hope of obtaining Kobe although people can never invision him leaving LA.

Would Kobe accept?

I would never assume Kobe would accept or not because I cannot say what Kobe is thinking but if O'Neal can be convinced to opt for less we would have the resources to put forth an enticing package which to me makes this a possibility & not fantasy.

Would O'Neal opt for less?.

O'Neal in all if not most of his interviews has been saying how much he wants to win. I'm assuming it will cost him roughly 10 mil to win a ring if he wants to win as badly as he says he does.

lukeem21
07-30-2008, 10:41 AM
i wouldnt want to be the guy to ask oneal give up 10mill for a chance to sign someone that would give us a chance to win a title

B2B
07-30-2008, 10:54 AM
i wouldnt want to be the guy to ask oneal give up 10mill for a chance to sign someone that would give us a chance to win a title

Haha Why?.

If I'm Colangelo already knowing what I want to accomplish, I have already let O'Neal know this in talks before I trade for him. O'Neal wants to win, so as Colangelo I tell O'Neal here's my plan for 09 I want Kobe but if I trade for you to create a winner I would need you to opt out to accomplish this & I will restructure you're contract, do you agree before we complete this trade.

lukeem21
07-30-2008, 11:15 AM
because there is a good chance that oneal would then opt out and the raps would miss out on kobe anyway

B2B
07-30-2008, 11:20 AM
because there is a good chance that oneal would then opt out and the raps would miss out on kobe anyway

Life is all about chance. Nothing is certain, why such a negative outlook?.

lukeem21
07-30-2008, 11:30 AM
all i'm saying is i think someone giving up 10 million dollars for a chance at a chance to have a chance is unecessary on his part and i would be shocked if he did it... i'd like to say that i would give it up but there is noway on earth i would be able to tell from here... realistically come on that is a lot of money and it would not be an easy choice

B2B
07-30-2008, 11:39 AM
all i'm saying is i think someone giving up 10 million dollars for a chance at a chance to have a chance is unecessary on his part and i would be shocked if he did it... i'd like to say that i would give it up but there is noway on earth i would be able to tell from here... realistically come on that is a lot of money and it would not be an easy choice

I never said it would be easy but how bad does O'Neal want to win?.

I answered this from my standpoint not O'Neal's as I can't assume what he would do. Personally I would give up 10 mil for what I want, which is a ring because I've had enough money already but what I don't have is a ring. I mean O'Neal was making 20 mil a year for a few years now it's not like he was underpaid in his career, why not?. The ring is accomplishment money is empty when you already have it.

A4L
07-30-2008, 12:09 PM
I never said it would be easy but how bad does O'Neal want to win?.

I answered this from my standpoint not O'Neal's as I can't assume what he would do. Personally I would give up 10 mil for what I want, which is a ring because I've had enough money already but what I don't have is a ring. I mean O'Neal was making 20 mil a year for a few years now it's not like he was underpaid in his career, why not?. The ring is accomplishment money is empty when you already have it.

GREAT POINTS --- UR VERY RIGHT!! A very well written article, keep it up!

North Yorker
07-30-2008, 01:09 PM
Wow, a very imaginative post. I like people who think outside the box. And although it's very unlikely, you gave good reasons as to why it's possible. good job:clap:

IversonIsKrazy
07-30-2008, 02:09 PM
well its really unlikely to happen but fun 2 imagine. Think abt it, lakers are in a really good position to win the NBA for the next 3-5years. Bynum is still young, and pau is 26. Kobe looks like he still has another 5years left in the engine. So i highly doubt this will happen, but u've done ur hw:P

B2B
07-30-2008, 02:33 PM
well its really unlikely to happen but fun 2 imagine. Think abt it, lakers are in a really good position to win the NBA for the next 3-5years. Bynum is still young, and pau is 26. Kobe looks like he still has another 5years left in the engine. So i highly doubt this will happen, but u've done ur hw:P

In my original post.

If the Lakers were to take a step backwards in '08-'09, things could get dramatic in Hollywood. The most likely scenario is him opting out of his current contract and, and after some harmless flirting with Chicago and a few other teams, eventually agreeing to another long-term max-money contract with the Lakers. Either way, it should be interesting to see this drama unfold. As we saw with Baron Davis and Elton Brand last month, shocking decisions can be made in the 11th hour.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9608

The part that I bolded is what I'm interested in. I believe if the Lakers take a step back, Kobe will do alot more than flirt with the open Market because he wants to win & a Laker's regression would all but see him leave as I believe he was deadly serious to be traded to the Bulls prior to the Laker's success in 08.

Way I see it, if the Laker's regress BC could cut in on the Laker's pie. Of course they would have to regress which may never happen, alot needs to take place for this Idea to be effective.

- Lakers would have to regress
- O'Neal would have to opt out & resign for less
- Kobe has to be convinced Raptors r serious contenders

Nothing is guaranteed but possible.

Let me put a spin on this thread. If it's not Kobe who's got BC's interest in 09 who does?.

The only player other than Kobe I see BC interested in is Marion.

Musical Tempo
07-30-2008, 02:54 PM
My question is why would Kobe leave?
Bynum>Bargnani
Pau Gasol > JO,
Odom > then our swing man
Kobe > Bosh
Kobe = best player in the NBA.


But I got a way of getting Kobe in town...just make sure no Hotel Staff snitches when he does the funny business.

B2B
07-30-2008, 03:06 PM
My question is why would Kobe leave?
Bynum>Bargnani
Pau Gasol > JO,
Odom > then our swing man
Kobe > Bosh
Kobe = best player in the NBA.


But I got a way of getting Kobe in town...just make sure no Hotel Staff snitches when he does the funny business.

:D

Bynum<O'Neal - Six time allstar more experienced
Gasol<Bosh - Hands down, no homer
Odom>Moon - Moon is better defensively
Bryant=Bryant
Fisher<Calderon - Calderon is still getting better can take care of the ball Kobe becomes more efficient.

Kapono our 3 point specialist.

Bench

Mihm<Hump/Jawai
Radmonovic<Bargnani
Walton<Kapono/Graham
Vujacic>Adams
Farmer>Ukic/Solomon

With Kobe playing shooting guard the backups won't see much playing time.

Musical Tempo
07-30-2008, 04:30 PM
:D

Bynum<O'Neal - Six time allstar more experienced
Gasol<Bosh - Hands down, no homer
Odom>Moon - Moon is better defensively
Bryant=Bryant
Fisher<Calderon - Calderon is still getting better can take care of the ball Kobe becomes more efficient.

Kapono our 3 point specialist.

Bench

Mihm<Hump/Jawai
Radmonovic<Bargnani
Walton<Kapono/Graham
Vujacic>Adams
Farmer>Ukic/Solomon

With Kobe playing shooting guard the backups won't see much playing time.

But be realistic obviously the match up you created are better, however not realistic, Bynum is coming of the bench like Bargnani so they play the same role and Bynum is a stand out so far in his career. As for Moon you say he has good D but Odom will still drop 15 pts on him, and he wont guard Kobe. Bosh is obviulsy better then their PF, Radmonovic, and whoever they play at SF, Pau Gosal > then present JO, if JO became to Toronto in Sept like a new player hungry like KG was with the Celtics then I'm eating my words...My point is ...the Lakers are a better team then the Raptors not necessarily skill wise but also coaching, and potential talent. Who do we have that is young except for Bosh and Bargnani?

ink
07-30-2008, 04:34 PM
I still wouldn't want Kobe. :shrug:

conway429
07-30-2008, 04:44 PM
forget that adulterer....
we cant trust him.

Musical Tempo
07-30-2008, 04:48 PM
forget that adulterer....
we cant trust him.

You scared he might sleep with your Daughters, and Wifes. And not tip?

Tell your daughter & wifes to take some lessons before they get into bed...lol JOKES JOKES

Koenigg
07-31-2008, 01:35 AM
You really think Kobe will come to Toronto with Cabbie bugging him every single day?

NOLES
07-31-2008, 02:06 AM
I am the only one who wouldn't Kobe on the Raptors.I think so.The guy has a bad attitude, and no way would i want 20+ million put on one player,while the rest of the roster suffers.. I would Rather take that 20 Million & sign 2 or 3 guys...You need a deep bench to win a championship & to battle through injuries. I wouldn't want to give any 32 - 33 year old a 20 Million + contract for so many years..Because you know he is gonna want a 4 - 5 year deal so he has guaranteed money as his career starts to wind down along with his production.

What makes you think it's 100% guaranteed The Raptors will re-sign O'neal? Maybe he comes out & get's hurt, or doesn't play well...It's a bad move to sign aging players to big , long term deals...Least in my opinion anyways.The man hasn't even played one minute for the team as of yet, so it's difficult to speculate on long term options.

Just to add to my post, I would rather see them KEEP THERE draft picks,build up like that.. you will have Bosh, Bargani,Moon,Calderon & I don't believe when O'Neal re signs to whoever that he has played well enough to deserve a 20 Million dollar contract... there is not many players on that level in my opinion.
Go after a guy Like Bynum,Artest or even Okur.

Mile High Champ
07-31-2008, 08:27 AM
I will state it one more time, it is a pipe dream to think Kobe will ever be a raptor, no matter how many numbers you cruch, I think everyone knows that Kobe has no reason to ever leave the lakers and if he did it would not be to a market like toronto..

lukeem21
07-31-2008, 09:40 AM
I never said it would be easy but how bad does O'Neal want to win?.

I answered this from my standpoint not O'Neal's as I can't assume what he would do. Personally I would give up 10 mil for what I want, which is a ring because I've had enough money already but what I don't have is a ring. I mean O'Neal was making 20 mil a year for a few years now it's not like he was underpaid in his career, why not?. The ring is accomplishment money is empty when you already have it.

i'm not trying to be rude about this just blunt... when is the last time you've guarenteed yourself 10million less dollars for a chance at something....

i like to think i would take the pay cut too its just rarely seen in sports and i'm thinking there are some good reasons why not

Mile High Champ
07-31-2008, 10:20 AM
i'm not trying to be rude about this just blunt... when is the last time you've guarenteed yourself 10million less dollars for a chance at something....

i like to think i would take the pay cut too its just rarely seen in sports and i'm thinking there are some good reasons why not

good point, money is what a lot of these guys are after, As much as I would love toronto to win the championship, I have to thiink Kobe knows it is more likely in a market like Chicago, LA etc,.

Mile High Champ
07-31-2008, 10:20 AM
i'm not trying to be rude about this just blunt... when is the last time you've guarenteed yourself 10million less dollars for a chance at something....

i like to think i would take the pay cut too its just rarely seen in sports and i'm thinking there are some good reasons why not

good point, money is what a lot of these guys are after, As much as I would love toronto to win the championship, I have to thiink Kobe knows it is more likely in a market like Chicago, LA etc,.

Musical Tempo
07-31-2008, 11:36 AM
You really think Kobe will come to Toronto with Cabbie bugging him every single day?

Those are the best moments of 'Cabbie On The Street'...I think he annoyed Moe P more then anyone else.


Cabbie is my hero:superman:

B2B
07-31-2008, 02:40 PM
i'm not trying to be rude about this just blunt... when is the last time you've guarenteed yourself 10million less dollars for a chance at something....

i like to think i would take the pay cut too its just rarely seen in sports and i'm thinking there are some good reasons why not

I understand the value of money but the basis of my argument is that he said himself in his interview that he's about winning and that's what matters. To me what that means is he's willing to put winning over money. Now I put myself in his shoes, I've been receiving 20 + mil for the last several years I've got plenty of money unless I'm like MC Hammer, now I want a ring like he stated in the interview & the best way to do it is by taking a pay cut. You may not do it, he may not do it but if it was me and I wanted a ring and had money, which he does, I would do it. Now the difference to me is he isn't like some rookie coming off a million dollar contract I'm talking 20 + mil for several years. You know how hard it is to spend 20 mil unless your frivolous. His time in the league is winding down he's got money but no ring and doesn't want to retire without one like Malone. Yeah I can see him taking a pay cut, will he I really can't say as I'm not him but I can envision it happening though if he wants to win bad enough.

It all comes down to how bad does he want a ring.

ink
07-31-2008, 02:53 PM
I understand the value of money but the basis of my argument is that he said himself in his interview that he's about winning and that's what matters. To me what that means is he's willing to put winning over money. Now I put myself in his shoes, I've been receiving 20 + mil for the last several years I've got plenty of money unless I'm like MC Hammer, now I want a ring like he stated in the interview & the best way to do it is by taking a pay cut. You may not do it, he may not do it but if it was me and I wanted a ring and had money, which he does, I would do it. Now the difference to me is he isn't like some rookie coming off a million dollar contract I'm talking 20 + mil for several years. You know how hard it is to spend 20 mil unless your frivolous. His time in the league is winding down he's got money but no ring and doesn't want to retire without one like Malone. Yeah I can see him taking a pay cut, will he I really can't say as I'm not him but I can envision it happening though if he wants to win bad enough.

It all comes down to how bad does he want a ring.

Did you ever think it isn't the franchise (i.e. Lakers) that is the reason why Kobe isn't winning? It may be that he warps the attack of every team he'll ever be on, and renders his teammates less valuable. He's not good enough to take over like MJ, but too dominant for the rest of his team to really get the touches they need to develop. I could see him coming to Toronto or any other team, and through no fault of his own, disrupting the balance on the team. He needs to be on a team like Team USA or a Lakers team with a player like Shaq where it's at least plausible to see him as a secondary weapon.

B2B
07-31-2008, 03:29 PM
Did you ever think it isn't the franchise (i.e. Lakers) that is the reason why Kobe isn't winning? It may be that he warps the attack of every team he'll ever be on, and renders his teammates less valuable. He's not good enough to take over like MJ, but too dominant for the rest of his team to really get the touches they need to develop. I could see him coming to Toronto or any other team, and through no fault of his own, disrupting the balance on the team. He needs to be on a team like Team USA or a Lakers team with a player like Shaq where it's at least plausible to see him as a secondary weapon.

Did LA reach the finals & Do you think they would've got there without Kobe?.

Kobe has won already on multiple occasions, people say he couldn't of done it without Shaq, I say Shaq couldn't of done it without Kobe. It takes two hands to clap. Much like Shaq couldn't of won in Miami without DWade. Look at Miami's Championship follow up season they were terrible yet they still had DWade & Shaq but did not win. You don't here people saying you think it's Dwade & not Miami, they won 15 games last year. Maybe Wade sucks (sarcasm).

To make a long story short if you put DWade in Kobe's position on the Laker's they wouldn't have been any better in my opinion.

Take a look at game six watch the coverage & tell me Kobe is the reason Laker's couldn't win. Note the defensive lapses by the entire team. Kobe could've scored a 100 points on this night and it wouldn't of mattered.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAHJCRd9U1c

Kobe & Lebron r the 2 best players in the NBA in my opinion & to answer your ? Kobe is the Lakers without him I don't see them reaching the second round.

ink
07-31-2008, 04:17 PM
Did LA reach the finals & Do you think they would've got there without Kobe?.

Kobe has won already on multiple occasions, people say he couldn't of done it without Shaq, I say Shaq couldn't of done it without Kobe. It takes two hands to clap. Much like Shaq couldn't of won in Miami without DWade. Look at Miami's Championship follow up season they were terrible yet they still had DWade & Shaq but did not win. You don't here people saying you think it's Dwade & not Miami, they won 15 games last year. Maybe Wade sucks (sarcasm).

To make a long story short if you put DWade in Kobe's position on the Laker's they wouldn't have been any better in my opinion.

Take a look at game six watch the coverage & tell me Kobe is the reason Laker's couldn't win. Note the defensive lapses by the entire team. Kobe could've scored a 100 points on this night and it wouldn't of mattered.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAHJCRd9U1c

Kobe & Lebron r the 2 best players in the NBA in my opinion & to answer your ? Kobe is the Lakers without him I don't see them reaching the second round.

You're probably right, but I'm saying something a little different. I'm saying that no matter how good the Kobester is, I'd never want to build a franchise around him. If he was a F/C, yes. But not as a wing player. There isn't a wing player in the L that I'd want to build around.

B2B
07-31-2008, 07:03 PM
You're probably right, but I'm saying something a little different. I'm saying that no matter how good the Kobester is, I'd never want to build a franchise around him. If he was a F/C, yes. But not as a wing player. There isn't a wing player in the L that I'd want to build around.

I'm saying I would.

Wing players I would build a franchise around from best to worst

1, Lebron - because of his ability to play multiple positions 1-4
2, Kobe
3, DWade

lukeem21
07-31-2008, 07:50 PM
I understand the value of money but the basis of my argument is that he said himself in his interview that he's about winning and that's what matters. To me what that means is he's willing to put winning over money. Now I put myself in his shoes, I've been receiving 20 + mil for the last several years I've got plenty of money unless I'm like MC Hammer, now I want a ring like he stated in the interview & the best way to do it is by taking a pay cut. You may not do it, he may not do it but if it was me and I wanted a ring and had money, which he does, I would do it. Now the difference to me is he isn't like some rookie coming off a million dollar contract I'm talking 20 + mil for several years. You know how hard it is to spend 20 mil unless your frivolous. His time in the league is winding down he's got money but no ring and doesn't want to retire without one like Malone. Yeah I can see him taking a pay cut, will he I really can't say as I'm not him but I can envision it happening though if he wants to win bad enough.

It all comes down to how bad does he want a ring.


the thing about an athelete saying winning is all that matters is, its what he is supposed to say... i'm not saying that he isnt telling the truth but you never know nowadays every player in the nba knows the cliches they are supposed to stick to and its easy to say winning is whats important and its another thing handing over 10million dollars from a contract that you earned... he also is a free agent comming up in 2010 and he could easily sign for less then with a serious contender and be giving up less money, and in a more passive fashion... i've got a feeling he was honest when he was saying that he wants to win now, but i believe he was refferring more to being okay with being second option and doing the day in day out hard work that it takes

this all being said i hate kobe and wouldnt be surprised if he doesnt win a championship for the rest of his career, unless he seriously retools his approach to the game... the guy has all the talent in the world but lets ego get in the way on the offensive end and just laziness on the defensive end

B2B
07-31-2008, 08:54 PM
the thing about an athelete saying winning is all that matters is, its what he is supposed to say... i'm not saying that he isnt telling the truth but you never know nowadays every player in the nba knows the cliches they are supposed to stick to and its easy to say winning is whats important and its another thing handing over 10million dollars from a contract that you earned... he also is a free agent comming up in 2010 and he could easily sign for less then with a serious contender and be giving up less money, and in a more passive fashion... i've got a feeling he was honest when he was saying that he wants to win now, but i believe he was refferring more to being okay with being second option and doing the day in day out hard work that it takes

this all being said i hate kobe and wouldnt be surprised if he doesnt win a championship for the rest of his career, unless he seriously retools his approach to the game... the guy has all the talent in the world but lets ego get in the way on the offensive end and just laziness on the defensive end

Even if he takes a pay cut he will still be making 10 mil. The majority of stars in the league make between 10 - 15 mil. It's not like by taking a cut he's going to be making 1 mil or something, he's still getting paid.

"its what he is supposed to say... i'm not saying that he isnt telling the truth but you never know nowadays every player in the nba knows the cliches they are supposed to stick to and its easy to say winning is whats important and its another thing handing over 10million dollars from a contract that you earned..."

The reason I said it depends on how bad he wants to win is because of this very fact. My reasoning is pending on O'Neals word and how committed he is to winning & the fact that he's not just saying what he is supposed to say. If he is truthfull & really wants to win a 10 mil salary & a 10 mil paycut won't be neither here nor there.

As for him earning his pay. That's debateable, wasn't he injured for like the last 4 years?. Thats 20 + mil a year to be on the disabled list.

I think as of now O'Neal is not worth more than 10 - 12 mil & is overpaid. If he really wants to win he will restructure his contract, if he's about the money he won't.

lukeem21
07-31-2008, 09:18 PM
Even if he takes a pay cut he will still be making 10 mil. The majority of stars in the league make between 10 - 15 mil. It's not like by taking a cut he's going to be making 1 mil or something, he's still getting paid.

As for him earning his pay. That's debateable, wasn't he injured for like the last 4 years?. Thats 20 + mil a year to be on the disabled list.

I think as of now O'Neal is not worth more than 10 - 12 mil & is overpaid. If he really wants to win he will restructure his contract, if he's about the money he won't.

the fact that he would still be making 10mill doesnt erase the fact that he could be making 10million more.

when i said he "earned it" i didnt necessarily mean he earned it on the court, moreso he earned it through negotiating and his agent or whatever but he did what he needed to do to get the contract, ****** way to think but its true more often then not that players get paid as much for what they have done as what they will do

he can really want to win and still want to make as much money as possible most people across the world feel this way.... you want to do a good but you dont want your company to pay you half of what they could, or should or whatever


let me know if i'm not making anymore good NEW points cause i see your side and all i'll just be shocked if he volunteers to get paid half his contract and i dont think this makes him a bad person or means that he doesnt want to win.... i think we're having a good discussion but if we're just talking in circles then we might as well end it... no offence, just not sure how much i'm contributing anymore... i never edit or read over my own posts i just write whats i'm thinking at that second

raptors wiseguy
07-31-2008, 09:44 PM
the fact that he would still be making 10mill doesnt erase the fact that he could be making 10million more.

when i said he "earned it" i didnt necessarily mean he earned it on the court, moreso he earned it through negotiating and his agent or whatever but he did what he needed to do to get the contract, ****** way to think but its true more often then not that players get paid as much for what they have done as what they will do

he can really want to win and still want to make as much money as possible most people across the world feel this way.... you want to do a good but you dont want your company to pay you half of what they could, or should or whatever


let me know if i'm not making anymore good NEW points cause i see your side and all i'll just be shocked if he volunteers to get paid half his contract and i dont think this makes him a bad person or means that he doesnt want to win.... i think we're having a good discussion but if we're just talking in circles then we might as well end it... no offence, just not sure how much i'm contributing anymore... i never edit or read over my own posts i just write whats i'm thinking at that second

agreed..IMO the only way he will give up his 20 mill option is if BC approaches him and asks him 2 in order 4 the team to sign another player...this would be an extremely risky move on BC's part because he mite offend JO lby making him think the organization doesnt believe he is worth his contract

but BC is a risk taker and he may request it but only if he had an offer for a superstar on the table such as kobe then he would approach JO talk abt the situation and tell him that opting out of his contract would be necessary...i could see a guy like calderon doing this..but i dont know abt JO yet..but its still a possibility...but this whole series of events is extremely unlikely

Kreza23
08-01-2008, 03:14 AM
The reason I said it depends on how bad he wants to win is because of this very fact. My reasoning is pending on O'Neals word and how committed he is to winning & the fact that he's not just saying what he is supposed to say. If he is truthfull & really wants to win a 10 mil salary & a 10 mil paycut won't be neither here nor there.

You're setting up O'Neal to be the bad guy if he doesn't take a paycut, which would be completely unfair to him. If you really believe that Colangelo was thinking that O'Neal would opt out to take a paycut and sign Kobe, and IF (I would prefer to actually use "when" here) this doesn't work out, that would mean that it's O'Neal's fault that the master plan didn't come to fruition. From O'Neal's standpoint, why would he be the one that has to take a paycut? Why not someone else? Why not have Bryan Colangelo dump some other players for salary cap space? Why can't he get paid and win at the same time? Why is this all on him?

Yes, he said that he wants to win. But he never said anything about winning at the cost of losing salary. So why take one thing he said and start making up unrealistic scenarios? You've jumped on others who have criticized your idea by saying that they were pessimists, but this is more of a case of going beyond optimistic and into the unrealistic/crazy zone. A man/woman can dream of course, so good on you for trying. You also shouldn't get all defensive when others say your idea is nuts. Just my two-cents.

B2B
08-01-2008, 07:20 AM
You're setting up O'Neal to be the bad guy if he doesn't take a paycut, which would be completely unfair to him. If you really believe that Colangelo was thinking that O'Neal would opt out to take a paycut and sign Kobe, and IF (I would prefer to actually use "when" here) this doesn't work out, that would mean that it's O'Neal's fault that the master plan didn't come to fruition. From O'Neal's standpoint, why would he be the one that has to take a paycut? Why not someone else? Why not have Bryan Colangelo dump some other players for salary cap space? Why can't he get paid and win at the same time? Why is this all on him?

Yes, he said that he wants to win. But he never said anything about winning at the cost of losing salary. So why take one thing he said and start making up unrealistic scenarios? You've jumped on others who have criticized your idea by saying that they were pessimists, but this is more of a case of going beyond optimistic and into the unrealistic/crazy zone. A man/woman can dream of course, so good on you for trying. You also shouldn't get all defensive when others say your idea is nuts. Just my two-cents.

Why would he be the one that has to take a paycut? Why not someone else?

Who else is making 23 mil?. He's over paid & if he wants to win, 10 mil & an extention of years is a reasonable contract. Bosh is our franchise player & he's getting 15 mil, it's fair in my opinion.

Why not have Bryan Colangelo dump some other players for salary cap space?

If Bargnani has a disappointing year he has a team option. If I was BC I would let him walk & use the 7 mil towards a free agent.

- Garbajosa 5 mil comes off the books
- Parkers 5 mil comes off the books
- Graham has a 3.5 mil qualifying offer
- Delfino has a 3 mil qualifying offer
- If Bargs disappoints & we don't pick up the team option 7 mil comes off

Player 2008-09 2009-10

Jermaine O'Neal $23,016,000 get him to opt out
Chris Bosh $15,779,912
Jose Calderon $8,000,000
Jason Kapono $6,212,960
Andrea Bargnani $6,527,491 put him on cap hold
Anthony Parker off the books
Jorge Garbajosa off the books
Carlos Delfino off the books
Joey Graham off the books
Nathan Jawai $442,114
Roko Ukic $1,250,000
Jamario Moon off books
Kris Humphries $3,200,000
Hassan Adams $750,000

TOTAL Committed $35,654,986

Things that need to be done

O'Neal - opts out to resign for less.
Bargs on cap hold may have to enter luxury tax to pick up team option
Graham QO = 3.4 mil
Delfino QO = 2.7 mil

Hump - 3,200,000/Jawai - 442,114 @ C = 3,642,114
Bosh - 15,799,912/ @ PF = 15,799,912
?/Kapono - 6,212,960 @ SF = 6,212,960
?/Adams - 711,517 @ SG = 750,000
Calderon - 8,000,000/Ukic - 1,250,000 @ PG = 9,250,000

Total money committed in 09 = 35,654,986

Using the 2008 cap guidline it was set at 56.8 mil & luxury tax was set at 71.1 mil.

= Roughly 22 mil cap space with the previous 7 players committed

Sign Kobe for roughly 20 mil

That leaves roughly 17 mil to resign O'Neal & 4 roster spots using exceptions. With the only way to retain Bargs is to enter luxury tax

Resign O'Neal for 10 mil

O'Neal - 10,000,000/Jawai - 442,114 = 10,442,114
Bosh - 15,799,912/Hump - 3,200,000 = 18,999,912
?/Kapono - 6,212,960 = 6,212,960
Kobe - 20,000,000/Adams - 711,517 = 22,711,517
Calderon - 8,000,000/Ukic - 1,250,000 = 9,250,000

= 65,654,986

Which leaves roughly 6-7 mil to fill 4 roster spots with before entering luxury tax. If we were to exercise Bargs team option we would end up in luxury tax.

Why can't he get paid and win at the same time? Why is this all on him?

You don't think 10 mil is getting paid?. It's on him because he's the one with the rediculous contract & he's the only one who has enough salary that he can give up some.


Check out this article I found on ******

O'Neal wanted to go to the Laker's, check out his reasons.

I told them I can't be in a rebuilding mode right now. I'm at a point in my career where I can't wait another five years to contend. I'm not in a position physically to take in five years of losses and downtime."

I want to make it clear that I don't want to gut a team that I come to because then it'll be like I'm in Indiana all over again.

"If things don't work, I have an option in my contract next year and I will opt out and become a free agent."

I picked these quotes to show that he's willing to give up his money. It also could mean if Raps r unsuccessfull he could leave just as easily.

For his part, O'Neal, who counts Bryant among his close friends, said he believes his arrival in L.A. indeed would be enough to keep Bryant in purple and gold.

Hmm.... interesting O'Neal & Bryant r close friends & his presence would keep Kobe happy enough to remain on a team, what about attracting him to one?. ;)

"Me and Kobe have talked a lot this summer about getting me here," O'Neal says. "We've been on each other since we were 15, playing AAU basketball, adidas All-American Camp, Nike All-American Camp. It's been a long relationship. We've been trying to make this happen all summer. He understands the desire that I have right now. Mentally, we're on the same page.

It's making me wonder if O'Neal would opt out to go to the Lakers insted of Kobe coming to the Raps.

"If I'm [in LA], I'm going to help this team win a championship. We can get the Lakers to elite level," O'Neal said, adding that his recent surgery to repair a torn meniscus will have him completely healthy for the first time in two years. "People need to realize that my last two years weren't down years. I didn't go into the last two seasons healthy at all. I'm healthy now and, at 28, I'm in my prime. The game is slowing down for me. I understand it a lot more. I'm ready to show people what I can do."

This quote is scary because wasn't he injured last year & saying the same thing this year?.

"Kobe's been criticized unfairly," O'Neal said. "He's in a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation. If he passes too much, they say he's not shooting. If he shoots, he's called selfish. He can go out and score 50 and lose, but if you don't take your shots, you're going to lose anyway. Everybody handles situations differently, and he handled the situation the best that he could. All in all, he wants to put out a team that can win. When you get into your 11th year, your body begins to wear down. You see the window of opportunity closing fast. I understand exactly what he's saying. That's what I told my team. That's why it's best for me to move on."

Ink this quote was for you

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2963592

After reading this article the thought that runs through my mind is did BC aquire O'Neal knowing that he & Kobe want to play together & would be able to entice Kobe to come north if O'Neal is there or is O'Neal going to opt out & sign for less with the Laker's?.

P.S You also shouldn't get all defensive when others say your idea is nuts. Just my two-cents

When it's all said & done I'm really not buisness but what I respond to is the fact that as ludicrous as some people think my post is I presented points, facts & articles as apposed to a response of it will never happen because I say so or I think so. Prove to me that Kobe won't leave LA without using personal opinon. I gave information as to why I think he would & not just opinion or thought.

Kreza23
08-01-2008, 12:56 PM
When it's all said & done I'm really not buisness but what I respond to is the fact that as ludicrous as some people think my post is I presented points, facts & articles as apposed to a response of it will never happen because I say so or I think so. Prove to me that Kobe won't leave LA without using personal opinon. I gave information as to why I think he would & not just opinion or thought.

Thanks for the long response, but I know the numbers and the logistics behind what you're saying. You gave a lot of information, but a lot of what happens WITH that information is based on YOUR opinions. I for one, have not said that Kobe will or won't leave LA, but you can't prove that he will either, despite the quotes you have provided. We have no idea how the Lakers are gonna do this year, or the Raptors for that matter, so I don't see why O'Neal would've agreed to take a pay cut after opting out before the actual trade with Indiana, which is something you have suggested.


Who else is making 23 mil?. He's over paid & if he wants to win, 10 mil & an extention of years is a reasonable contract. Bosh is our franchise player & he's getting 15 mil, it's fair in my opinion.

If he and his agent were succesful enough to get the Pacers to pay him that much cash, then really, there is nothing unfair about it. And here, you have stated YOUR opinion, which I'm not saying is wrong, but just because you think he deserves less than Bosh, doesn't mean that he's gonna cut back his salary. It would be nice, no doubt about it, but this is wishful thinking on your part. You've taken a simple quote about him wanting to win and decided that it means he would reduce his salary for the Raptors to get Kobe.

Look, I and most people are obviously all for the Raptors getting Kobe, but the key to your plan is based on a star player cutting guaranteed money. I know O'Neal's not getting any younger, and I know that he wants to win, but so does everybody else in the NBA. There aren't many, if any, who would do what you are suggesting O'Neal would. And I know you're gonna come back and say that's my own opinion, which is true, but I haven't seen many players do that. Have you? And I'm not talking bit players like the entire Celtics bench last year.

B2B
08-01-2008, 02:17 PM
Thanks for the long response, but I know the numbers and the logistics behind what you're saying. You gave a lot of information, but a lot of what happens WITH that information is based on YOUR opinions. I for one, have not said that Kobe will or won't leave LA, but you can't prove that he will either, despite the quotes you have provided. We have no idea how the Lakers are gonna do this year, or the Raptors for that matter, so I don't see why O'Neal would've agreed to take a pay cut after opting out before the actual trade with Indiana, which is something you have suggested.



If he and his agent were succesful enough to get the Pacers to pay him that much cash, then really, there is nothing unfair about it. And here, you have stated YOUR opinion, which I'm not saying is wrong, but just because you think he deserves less than Bosh, doesn't mean that he's gonna cut back his salary. It would be nice, no doubt about it, but this is wishful thinking on your part. You've taken a simple quote about him wanting to win and decided that it means he would reduce his salary for the Raptors to get Kobe.

Look, I and most people are obviously all for the Raptors getting Kobe, but the key to your plan is based on a star player cutting guaranteed money. I know O'Neal's not getting any younger, and I know that he wants to win, but so does everybody else in the NBA. There aren't many, if any, who would do what you are suggesting O'Neal would. And I know you're gonna come back and say that's my own opinion, which is true, but I haven't seen many players do that. Have you? And I'm not talking bit players like the entire Celtics bench last year.

Thanks for the long response, but I know the numbers and the logistics behind what you're saying.

The #'s & logistics that I provided was to show financially that we can make a possible offer to Kobe, not that he would accept but that we can. I'm hoping he would come but I never said he will, just showing that we would have the resources if O'Neal opts out to put a deal on the table.

I don't have the interview but BC stated from his arrival a great interest in the 09 offseason not 2010 like most other clubs. Why & for who?. This is where it becomes speculation but looking at the free agent list what do you think would float BC's boat so much in 09 for him to want to create "as much cap space as possible" in his own words then & not 2010 like most other teams?. The only 2 logical choices for me in this free agency is Kobe & Marion I don't see anyone else drawing BC's interest from this free agent class. Yes it's my opinion but it makes sense to me based on the fact that BC has shown interest in Kobe before when he was on the Suns & Marion because he tried to trade for him this past year. Who else would garner BC's interest if not the two players I mentioned?.

I used process of elimination based on team needs & talent

Raps need a better wing player to contend, I selected the list of players that play SG/SF and chose the most talented to be the one to draw the most interest. I'm not saying we can get Kobe but that our original offer would start with him in the hope of obtaining him. If we don't get him we move to the next best available talent which would be Marion until we find a taker but the fact that I can mention Kobe is because of BC's prior interest.

Which brings me to why would O'Neal opt out?.

Yes once again I'm not saying with assurance that he will but the qoutes from the article I provided showed why he might & it's not just pure speculation.

"I told them I can't be in a rebuilding mode right now. I'm at a point in my career where I can't wait another five years to contend. I'm not in a position physically to take in five years of losses and downtime."

This shows he wants to win & acknowledges his time is running out which shows signs of desperation to win.

I want to make it clear that I don't want to gut a team that I come to because then it'll be like I'm in Indiana all over again.

You don't think that 23 mil won't limit the teams ability to contend because he's tying up resources?. To me if he doesn't want to gut the team so that there would be talent left after a trade, he would take a pay cut so the team won't be limited to gain talent.

Doesn't this sound like a player that desperately wants to win?. How is my opinion of him opting out to win baseless when he himself says this:

"If things don't work, I have an option in my contract next year and I will opt out and become a free agent."

Doesn't this quote show his willingness to opt out to win & a willingness to part with his beloved 23 mil?. To me it does, will he?. Well that depends on whether or not he is a man of his word. I'm aware human nature is to be selfish, doesn't mean he will be.

Yes my post is speculation but it's not baseless speculation.

B2B
08-01-2008, 05:57 PM
Thanks for the long response, but I know the numbers and the logistics behind what you're saying. You gave a lot of information, but a lot of what happens WITH that information is based on YOUR opinions. I for one, have not said that Kobe will or won't leave LA, but you can't prove that he will either, despite the quotes you have provided. We have no idea how the Lakers are gonna do this year, or the Raptors for that matter, so I don't see why O'Neal would've agreed to take a pay cut after opting out before the actual trade with Indiana, which is something you have suggested.

Here's an article saying Olympiakos is interested in Lebron in 2010.

At first glance it is ludicrous to imagine that the NBA's next big star would move overseas as he's trying to win championships and replace Michael Jordan as a household name globally. But look at it this way: Neither the Euroleague nor Greek league impose any kind of salary cap on its teams, which means there would be no ceiling on an offer that the billionaire ownership of Olympiakos could make to James.

As a free agent in 2010, his new contract in the NBA would start at less than $20 million annually.

What if Olympiakos were to offer him $40 million per year? Or $50 million? Who knows how much the Greeks would be willing to pay? The point is that the limitation on his salary is entirely up to them.

So under the same premise as to why some of you say O'Neal will not turn down 10 mil to win. I would assume a 50 mil offer to Lebron to play one year of basketball in greece, cannot be refused :shrug:. Wouldn't Lebron be stupid to turn down 30 mil extra?. The decision depends on what's important to the individual.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/ian_thomsen/08/01/lebron.greece/?eref=sircrc

Do you think Lebron would accept or not?. When you answer this ? you will see why I say O'Neal would accept a pay cut.

If winning is what is important to O'Neal which I believe I proved from his interviews then I proved why he would opt for less. It's because it's what is important to him.

Kreza23
08-03-2008, 08:41 AM
So under the same premise as to why some of you say O'Neal will not turn down 10 mil to win. I would assume a 50 mil offer to Lebron to play one year of basketball in greece, cannot be refused . Wouldn't Lebron be stupid to turn down 30 mil extra?. The decision depends on what's important to the individual.

You're talking about a guy who is top 2 in the league, is younger and at a much different point in his career than O'Neal, and also somebody who would lose millions and millions of dollars in marketing and exposure if he were to do that. COMPLETELY different situation. Whatever he was getting paid to play in Greece, I'm sure Nike would cover the difference and then some.


If winning is what is important to O'Neal which I believe I proved from his interviews then I proved why he would opt for less. It's because it's what is important to him.

No you haven't. The only thing that you have proved is that he wants to win. Wanting to win does not necessarily equal willing to take a paycut. Wanting to win doesn not equal pre-arranged deal with Toronto GM to take a paycut in order to get Kobe. I suppose those are possible results, so you're right, it's not impossible. But everybody else is also correct in saying that you are being pretty unrealistic but assuming that it will. It's also possible that Team USA decides that they want to keep playing together, and then Kobe signs with the Raptors for a million next summer, and then in 2010 LeBron and Dwayne Wade do the same. If they all want to win as badly as they all say that they do, then it'll happen...

B2B
08-03-2008, 10:58 AM
You're talking about a guy who is top 2 in the league, is younger and at a much different point in his career than O'Neal, and also somebody who would lose millions and millions of dollars in marketing and exposure if he were to do that. COMPLETELY different situation. Whatever he was getting paid to play in Greece, I'm sure Nike would cover the difference and then some.



No you haven't. The only thing that you have proved is that he wants to win. Wanting to win does not necessarily equal willing to take a paycut. Wanting to win doesn not equal pre-arranged deal with Toronto GM to take a paycut in order to get Kobe. I suppose those are possible results, so you're right, it's not impossible. But everybody else is also correct in saying that you are being pretty unrealistic but assuming that it will. It's also possible that Team USA decides that they want to keep playing together, and then Kobe signs with the Raptors for a million next summer, and then in 2010 LeBron and Dwayne Wade do the same. If they all want to win as badly as they all say that they do, then it'll happen...

You're talking about a guy who is top 2 in the league, is younger and at a much different point in his career than O'Neal

You r right & O'Neals situation is different & they r at different stages of their carrers. He's nearing the end of his career, is coming off an injury that didn't see him play for several years & his time to win a Championship is closing.

If you're Lebron & you're young what's 2 years in Greece for 100 mil?. After spending a couple of seasons he can eventually return to the NBA after he makes a couple extra bucks.

Also somebody who would lose millions and millions of dollars in marketing and exposure if he were to do that.

You telling me there's no market in europe?. As for exposure anyone who watches ball, already knows who Lebron is on this side of the continent, if anything I see it increasing his exposure as he will be introduced to a whole knew fan base. p.s I'm pretty sure they sell Nike in europe.

No you haven't. The only thing that you have proved is that he wants to win

I proved

- O'Neal acknowledged his time is running out (desperation)

"I told them I can't be in a rebuilding mode right now. I'm at a point in my career where I can't wait another five years to contend. I'm not in a position physically to take in five years of losses and downtime."

- O'Neal wants to win (what he wants to accomplish)

"I want to make it clear that I don't want to gut a team that I come to because then it'll be like I'm in Indiana all over again."

His interviews all say how he wanted to win whether some of you believe that he's just saying what he's supposed to say or not. It can be taken either way.

- Willing to opt out to be on a contender (what he's willing to do)

"If things don't work, I have an option in my contract next year and I will opt out and become a free agent."

Call me crazy but if he opts out doesn't he run the risk of losing all his money with his age & injury concerns?. Sounds risky & like a pay cut to me.

Yeah he may not take a pay cut as I cannot speak on his behalf but with all the signs that I showed, I wouldn't be surprised if he did.

Another aspect of Kobe coming to Toronto that I didn't know before I found the last article I posted is that he & O'Neal r good friends & want to play together.

"Me and Kobe have talked a lot this summer about getting me here," O'Neal says. "We've been on each other since we were 15, playing AAU basketball, adidas All-American Camp, Nike All-American Camp. It's been a long relationship. We've been trying to make this happen all summer. He understands the desire that I have right now. Mentally, we're on the same page.

? is Does O'Neal opt out & goto LA or does Kobe opt out & goto TO?. I think the decision would be based on what team would have the best chances of winning & who would improve what team more.

O'Neal going to LA doesn't improve that team as much as Kobe coming to TO because O'Neal would be replacing Bynum whereas Kobe would be replacing Parker.

Bynum<O'Neal
Kobe>>>>>Parker

Wanting to win does not necessarily equal willing to take a paycut.

I agree but like I proved, O'neal realizes his time & chances r running out. So it's wanting to win with the aspect of desperation which is different than just wanting to win. Otherwise he would of been content in staying in Indiana. My reasoning is that with time not on O'Neals side, it increases the chances.

so you're right, it's not impossible. But everybody else is also correct in saying that you are being pretty unrealistic but assuming that it will.

If it's possible, it's not unrealistic. Chances may be slim of it happening but stranger things have happened.

It's also possible that Team USA decides that they want to keep playing together, and then Kobe signs with the Raptors for a million next summer, and then in 2010 LeBron and Dwayne Wade do the same. If they all want to win as badly as they all say that they do, then it'll happen...

I know that this scenario may not happen but my point was to show the possibility of it.

Colangelo is interested in 09 free agency & wants as much cap space as possible, why?. Kobe stands out to me in this free agent class. Why not 2010 which is a great free agent class?.
Kobe is a free agent in 09
O'Neal is overpaid & would need to take a cut to win & is desperate to win
O'Neal is freinds with Kobe & would like to play together & have talked about it.

What I compiled was a possiblity based on facts & intentions not a fictional scenario based on posssibilty.