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View Full Version : Ned Colletti vs. Brian Sabean: Worse GM?



yojoe792
07-27-2008, 01:03 AM
I've heard ALOT of trash talking and fighting between Giants and Dodgers fans in the past few days (see threads such as the Dodgers acquiring Casey Blake). Most of the talk involves the two worst GM's in the major leagues: Ned Colletti and Brian Sabean. I thought rather than going off topic in other threads and discussing this heated matter, I'd create one thread. Most of the talk will be considered "baiting", but that's kind of the point.

Who is worse and why?

PhillyUD26
07-27-2008, 01:03 AM
Simple: Sabean

Reason: 126

Yendil
07-27-2008, 01:05 AM
Bill Bavasi is worse than both of them combined. Thread over :p

giantspwn
07-27-2008, 01:09 AM
Sabean is hit and miss. He either makes a brilliant move or he really ****'s up...Either way Ned Colletti was his minion and they still think a like..Both should be fired so the Giant-Dodger rivalry can renew with better teams.

B.G.B
07-27-2008, 01:19 AM
sabean

FC_4_life
07-27-2008, 01:28 AM
Giants fan here, but I'll have to say Sabean...

yojoe792
07-27-2008, 01:38 AM
Brian Sabean
Negatives: Continues to sign veterans to long-term contracts, although rebuilding appears a necessity. BARRY ZITO!:rolleyes: 5 more years of him at $18 mill/year. Never understood why he is not trading some of his vets for prospects, seems to avoid the process of rebuilding. BARRY ZITO!!:rolleyes:

Positives: Traded Ray Durham for prospects, a move that will help the team in the long run. He should do the same for other vets such as Roberts and Vizquel. Avoided Barry Bonds. Avoided trading Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum when star players were offered to them. Uhh, that's it.


Ned Colletti

Negitives: Andruw Jones, Jason Schmidt, Nomar, etc. Continues to sign older players, injured or struggling, to contracts of over $10 mill. Refuses to trade 4 prospects away for star names, but will trade 2-3 for an old washed up rental.

Positives: Avoids long term contracts (with the exception of Juan Pierre, who all-in-all is doing what he is paid for.) Is criticized very harshly for Andruw Jones, but signed him to very little guaranteed money, and he is out after next season. A small gamble that didn't pay off. Has maintained one of baseball's best farm systems. This turned out great in several scenarios, i.e. james loney, matt kemp, russ martin. Furcal had a good run.



THE AWARD GOES TO.....BRIAN SABEAN!! Not just a homer pick.

REASON: He is not guiding this team in any definite direction. He makes moves a contending team would make, even though the time is to rebuild. At least Colletti knows what he's doing, its just that the signings are bad.

CAIN=FUTURE
07-27-2008, 01:49 AM
The moves Sabean makes are always good at the time. Like the signings of vets durring the years the Giants were good, its now coming back to bite him because of the lack of the farm system. The Liriano trade was AWESOME at the time. The Giants got a young All Star catcher for next tp what appered to nothing.

What about the Schmit trade. Schmit and Jon Vander Wal for Armando Rios. A lot of Giants fans don't like him but he does do a lot of good.

giantspwn
07-27-2008, 01:51 AM
Sabean actually has a track record with some decent success...

Positives:
He traded for Jason Schimdt for nothing
He signed Barry Bonds
He traded Matt Williams for Jeff Kent
He traded garbage for Robb Nenn
He traded for Randy Winn
He's been able to dump vets that were tanking on to other teams (Matt Morris, Mark Sweeney, Jason Schimidt, Ray Durham)

Negatives:
He signed Barry Zito
He signed Dave Roberts among other very old vets that did not produce
Nathan, Liriano, Bonser trade
He didn't sign Vladamir Guerrero
He never signed someone to protect Bonds other than Kent and Aurillia

CAIN=FUTURE
07-27-2008, 01:51 AM
Brian Sabean
Negatives: Continues to sign veterans to long-term contracts, although rebuilding appears a necessity. BARRY ZITO!:rolleyes: 5 more years of him at $18 mill/year. Never understood why he is not trading some of his vets for prospects, seems to avoid the process of rebuilding. BARRY ZITO!!:rolleyes:

Positives: Traded Ray Durham for prospects, a move that will help the team in the long run. He should do the same for other vets such as Roberts and Vizquel. Avoided Barry Bonds. Avoided trading Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum when star players were offered to them. Uhh, that's it.


Ned Colletti

Negitives: Andruw Jones, Jason Schmidt, Nomar, etc. Continues to sign older players, injured or struggling, to contracts of over $10 mill. Refuses to trade 4 prospects away for star names, but will trade 2-3 for an old washed up rental.

Positives: Avoids long term contracts (with the exception of Juan Pierre, who all-in-all is doing what he is paid for.) Is criticized very harshly for Andruw Jones, but signed him to very little guaranteed money, and he is out after next season. A small gamble that didn't pay off. Has maintained one of baseball's best farm systems. This turned out great in several scenarios, i.e. james loney, matt kemp, russ martin. Furcal had a good run.



THE AWARD GOES TO.....BRIAN SABEAN!! Not just a homer pick.

REASON: He is not guiding this team in any definite direction. He makes moves a contending team would make, even though the time is to rebuild. At least Colletti knows what he's doing, its just that the signings are bad.

He didnt resign Bonds and traded Durham. Those are huge steps in the right direction.

djeller1139
07-27-2008, 02:10 AM
Sabean has trouble staying in a definate direction. He needs to stick to whatever plan he claims to be starting. Colletti just continually has bad luck overpaying for free agents, (as has Sabean). Honestly, i would pick Sabean as the worse GM. He doens't stay in the right direction, has made a 126 million dollar mistake, and after stating we are in a "youth movement" now has stated that the Giants still will be actively looking for a bat this off season..Colletti just signs players who are washed up or past their peak (Schmidt, A. Jones, Furcal, Pierre).

yojoe792
07-27-2008, 02:16 AM
The moves Sabean makes are always good at the time. Like the signings of vets durring the years the Giants were good, its now coming back to bite him because of the lack of the farm system. The Liriano trade was AWESOME at the time. The Giants got a young All Star catcher for next tp what appered to nothing.

What about the Schmit trade. Schmit and Jon Vander Wal for Armando Rios. A lot of Giants fans don't like him but he does do a lot of good.

Good at the time??? :confused: What??? :confused: Does that mean ANYTHING???? NO. That Liriano trade was one of the worst ever, assuming Liriano turns out the way he is supposed to. They gave Boof Bonser as well. An absolutely horrible trade, IDK what the hell you are talking about. Good at the time??? :confused:


He didnt resign Bonds and traded Durham. Those are huge steps in the right direction.

Good for him. Actually smart. How bout Winn, Roberts, Vizquel, etc.?? He is missing the picture.

I find it amazing why Giants fans believe the Rowand signing was good. A good player? Yes. Worth the money? Maybe. Does he fit the team's direction?? ABSOLUTELY NOT. 5 years? Thats a move a definite contending team would make. Not a team that was considered the worst team in the majors at the time. It makes no sense, giving him all that guaranteed money over such a long span of time.

yojoe792
07-27-2008, 02:17 AM
Sabean has trouble staying in a definate direction. He needs to stick to whatever plan he claims to be starting. Colletti just continually has bad luck overpaying for free agents, (as has Sabean). Honestly, i would pick Sabean as the worse GM. He doens't stay in the right direction, has made a 126 million dollar mistake, and after stating we are in a "youth movement" now has stated that the Giants still will be actively looking for a bat this off season..Colletti just signs players who are washed up or past their peak (Schmidt, A. Jones, Furcal, Pierre).

Exactly. Makes moves that should represent a contending team, but not what is actually going on.

C1Bman88
07-27-2008, 02:35 AM
Good at the time??? :confused: What??? :confused: Does that mean ANYTHING???? NO. That Liriano trade was one of the worst ever, assuming Liriano turns out the way he is supposed to. They gave Boof Bonser as well. An absolutely horrible trade, IDK what the hell you are talking about. Good at the time??? :confused:

In retrospect, yes, the Pierzynski deal was a horrible one. But at the time it was a good deal. Pierzynski was a LHH All-Star catcher that was coming off of a breakout year and was only 26. Nathan was a good setup man that crumbled under pressure situations, we knew that Liriano was an enigma and would have injury problems throughout his career, and that Bonser would be nothing more than a league average fifth starter.

Pierzynski wound up being a terrible fit for us, Nathan blossomed into an elite closer, Liriano is still an enigma and chances are won't stay healthy, and Bonser is still nothing more than a league average fifth starter. C'est la vie.

Colletti has the benefit of working with the brilliant Logan White. Frank McCourt also vetoes some of Colletti's potential dumb deals. Sabean doesn't have that luxury.

Tragedy
07-27-2008, 02:36 AM
There isn't an option for Jim Bowden?!

C1Bman88
07-27-2008, 03:10 AM
How about Ed Wade?

PhillyUD26
07-27-2008, 03:13 AM
How about Ed Wade?

I hate that man

GHGHCP
07-27-2008, 03:20 AM
In retrospect, yes, the Pierzynski deal was a horrible one. But at the time it was a good deal. Pierzynski was a LHH All-Star catcher that was coming off of a breakout year and was only 26. Nathan was a good setup man that crumbled under pressure situations, we knew that Liriano was an enigma and would have injury problems throughout his career, and that Bonser would be nothing more than a league average fifth starter.

Pierzynski wound up being a terrible fit for us, Nathan blossomed into an elite closer, Liriano is still an enigma and chances are won't stay healthy, and Bonser is still nothing more than a league average fifth starter. C'est la vie.

Colletti has the benefit of working with the brilliant Logan White. Frank McCourt also vetoes some of Colletti's potential dumb deals. Sabean doesn't have that luxury.

Thank Blue Heaven for Logan White (with a small nod to McCourt who listens to our Evil Genius). :D

bartoron
07-27-2008, 08:53 AM
How about Ed Wade?

LOL. He is the worst GM of all time.

mikedesi1004
07-27-2008, 09:35 AM
yeahh..i think ed wade is the worst in baseball

ccugrad1
07-27-2008, 10:39 AM
I will always vote for Ned Colletti on this one. I have always said the Dodgers have the prospects and the resources to get just about anyone they want to, players that would help this team considerably, and they refuse to part with any of them. I could argue that they had enough prospects and resources to have gotten BOTH Johan Santana and Miguel Cabrera this past off-season. A lot of teams can't say that and to see the Dodgers continue to be mediocre is saddening.

With the Giants, you have an aging team, one that won't be good for a few years.

The Dodgers can't say that, and they aren't much better than San Fran right now.

DODGERS&LAKERS
07-27-2008, 11:30 AM
Its pretty sad that the Giants and Dodgers fans are arguing who sucks more? Something has to change for both these franchises. The Dodgers have won one playoff game in 20 years. The Giants have not won a World Series since moving to Frisco. To make this a legitimate rivalry we have to be winners like the Red Sox and Yankees. Cause right now we are all just fighting to see who gets the front seat on the little yellow bus to school with the rest of the retards.

And to answer the thread question, Colletti gave Andruw Jones $36,000,000 over 2 years to be batting .168, 2 hr, 9 rbi at the end of July. Game over!

lilboytwister99
07-27-2008, 11:40 AM
LOL. He is the worst GM of all time.

Amen to that brother. Nobody holds a candle to Ed Wade. Hey can you honestly tell me of any other GM that a player has choked out this year? Wade takes the cake!

Humongo
07-27-2008, 11:45 AM
LOL. He is the worst GM of all time.

Is he really worse than Bill Bavasi?

papipapsmanny
07-27-2008, 12:18 PM
sabean is worse his team has sucked for years now

seanyt
07-27-2008, 12:28 PM
Currently they both suck, but overall I'd have to say Sabean is the better G.M., and not by much! The diff. is Sabean has put togethor some real good trades, and signed some good players to assemble a team that actually went somewhere. Unfortunately for Ned he must have taken notes towards the end of his tenure under Sabean.

yojoe792
07-27-2008, 12:30 PM
There isn't an option for Jim Bowden?!

That defeats the purpose of the Giants vs. Dodgers rivalry incorporated in thus thread.

Seamhead
07-27-2008, 12:52 PM
Do you guys miss the nerd guy who got booted out of town by Bill Plaschke?

C1Bman88
07-27-2008, 01:24 PM
Is he really worse than Bill Bavasi?

I think we're discussing current GM's, not including fired ones. If we were, Dave Littlefield would most likely be considered the worst GM.

jscotty8
07-27-2008, 01:53 PM
Sabean built a team that went to the WS with barry bonds, when nobody wanted to sign in SF because of bonds huge ego... Last offseason Colletti's big free agent signing was Jones, Sabean's was Rowand... Jones is the worst signing of all last season... Rowand might be the best (besides the mets getting Santana)... Sabean has made some really dumb moves sense 2002... before that he was an elite GM... and it feels like he might be moving the team in the right direction... only time will tell. The dodgers are just moving towards being the giants off 2004..

Colletti is way worse! but neither is close to the worse GM in baseball...

Kinsm
07-27-2008, 02:00 PM
There isn't an option for Jim Bowden?!


There should be, he is by far the worst, though the two mentioned are both bad as well.

Kinsm
07-27-2008, 02:02 PM
Its pretty sad that the Giants and Dodgers fans are arguing who sucks more? Something has to change for both these franchises. The Dodgers have won one playoff game in 20 years. The Giants have not won a World Series since moving to Frisco. To make this a legitimate rivalry we have to be winners like the Red Sox and Yankees. Cause right now we are all just fighting to see who gets the front seat on the little yellow bus to school with the rest of the retards.

And to answer the thread question, Colletti gave Andruw Jones $36,000,000 over 2 years to be batting .168, 2 hr, 9 rbi at the end of July. Game over!


And Zito is owed 100 million over the next 5 years, which is worse?

Kinsm
07-27-2008, 02:04 PM
Last offseason Colletti's big free agent signing was Jones, Sabean's was Rowand... Jones is the worst signing of all last season... Rowand might be the best (besides the mets getting Santana)... Sabean has made some really dumb moves sense 2002... before that he was an elite GM... and it feels like he might be moving the team in the right direction... only time will tell. The dodgers are just moving towards being the giants off 2004..

Colletti is way worse! but neither is close to the worse GM in baseball...


Kyle Lohse to the Cardinals???

jscotty8
07-27-2008, 02:11 PM
Kyle Lohse to the Cardinals???

What does that have to do with this question?:confused:

bartoron
07-27-2008, 02:15 PM
What does that have to do with this question?:confused:

Maybe he's saying that the current Phillies GM (I have no idea what his name is) is doing a bad job. Overall I don't think that's the case, but letting Kyle Lohse get away was pretty bad when you look at it from a present standpoint. Lohse is doing very well for the Cardinals and the Phillies could be dominating in the NL East if they still had Lohse and he pitched for them like he's been pitching for the Cardinals thus far.

DODGERS&LAKERS
07-27-2008, 02:20 PM
And Zito is owed 100 million over the next 5 years, which is worse?

Very true. But I dont know if Giant fans have the hate for Zito that I have for Jones. I think Zito actually acts as if he cares. Jones strikes out then laughs about it every time. Contract wise, Zito is far worse. But from what is getting done on the field, its close but Jones attitude puts him over the top for me.

jscotty8
07-27-2008, 02:21 PM
Maybe he's saying that the current Phillies GM (I have no idea what his name is) is doing a bad job. Overall I don't think that's the case, but letting Kyle Lohse get away was pretty bad when you look at it from a present standpoint. Lohse is doing very well for the Cardinals and the Phillies could be dominating in the NL East if they still had Lohse and he pitched for them like he's been pitching for the Cardinals thus far.

That makes sense.. Thanks

jscotty8
07-27-2008, 02:25 PM
Very true. But I dont know if Giant fans have the hate for Zito that I have for Jones. I think Zito actually acts as if he cares. Jones strikes out then laughs about it every time. Contract wise, Zito is far worse. But from what is getting done on the field, its close but Jones attitude puts him over the top for me.

This is very true... As much as we wish the Giants weren't spending all that money on Zito... he is a hard guy to hate... he really is trying and wants to be a Giant and Ace of that staff... Still a bad deal... only makes it worse with Cain and Timmy there... we never needed him

C1Bman88
07-27-2008, 02:26 PM
Very true. But I dont know if Giant fans have the hate for Zito that I have for Jones. I think Zito actually acts as if he cares. Jones strikes out then laughs about it every time. Contract wise, Zito is far worse. But from what is getting done on the field, its close but Jones attitude puts him over the top for me.

Trust me when I say we do. You guys are only stuck with Jones for another year and a half, and we're stuck with Zito for 5 more years. When you're paying a guy $126 million, you'd expect him to be at least league average or slightly above average- not downright terrible.

We're literally stuck with him since he has a full NTC.

Gigantes4Life
07-27-2008, 03:54 PM
I guess since we're not a contender we can deal with poor performances a bit more than contending teams can. Zito's also shown some bright spots, I guess :shrug:

jscotty8
07-27-2008, 04:46 PM
This has ended up being a Jones vs. Zito thing... I think the point is last off season Sabean made a great signing in Rowand... LA sign Jones... the year SF signed Zito LA signed Pierre... Sabean has made a lot of great moves in his time as GM... the last 5 years have been bad... but hopfully rowand is a sign of things to come... I think Jones and Blake might be too...

JHG722
07-27-2008, 06:18 PM
Sabean is almost like a regular guy playing fantasy baseball...

CAIN=FUTURE
07-27-2008, 06:43 PM
I will always vote for Ned Colletti on this one. I have always said the Dodgers have the prospects and the resources to get just about anyone they want to, players that would help this team considerably, and they refuse to part with any of them. I could argue that they had enough prospects and resources to have gotten BOTH Johan Santana and Miguel Cabrera this past off-season. A lot of teams can't say that and to see the Dodgers continue to be mediocre is saddening.

With the Giants, you have an aging team, one that won't be good for a few years.

The Dodgers can't say that, and they aren't much better than San Fran right now.

THE GIANTS ARE NOT AGING! They have an average age of 28.

CAIN=FUTURE
07-27-2008, 06:44 PM
Trust me when I say we do. You guys are only stuck with Jones for another year and a half, and we're stuck with Zito for 5 more years. When you're paying a guy $126 million, you'd expect him to be at least league average or slightly above average- not downright terrible.

We're literally stuck with him since he has a full NTC.

I trie not to hate Zito. I know all the boo's he gets in SF is not helping him get better so I always make sure to cheer for him.

CAIN=FUTURE
07-27-2008, 06:45 PM
sabean is worse his team has sucked for years now

3?

CAIN=FUTURE
07-27-2008, 06:47 PM
Thank Blue Heaven for Logan White (with a small nod to McCourt who listens to our Evil Genius). :D

Isn't White going to Seatle to GM for the Mariners at the end of the year?

GHGHCP
07-27-2008, 06:56 PM
Isn't White going to Seatle to GM for the Mariners at the end of the year?

Nope. He wants to stay.

CAIN=FUTURE
07-27-2008, 06:58 PM
Nope. He wants to stay.

Well until NedCo and Stan Conty are finished recking the dodgers and return to the homeland that is the Giants the dodgers will never be a WS contender. HAHAHAHA :smoking:.

Seamhead
07-27-2008, 07:09 PM
What's worse -- a migraine or a stomach virus?

CAIN=FUTURE
07-27-2008, 07:10 PM
What's worse -- a migraine or a stomach virus?

Migraine!

GHGHCP
07-27-2008, 07:15 PM
Well until NedCo and Stan Conty are finished recking the dodgers and return to the homeland that is the Giants the dodgers will never be a WS contender. HAHAHAHA :smoking:.

Shouldn't you be building your Angel Villalona shrine?

yojoe792
07-27-2008, 09:01 PM
Enough of this Andruw Jones vs. Barry Zito contract crap. All-in-all, both are bad, but the contracts are by no means comparable. Andruw Jones was given only 2 years on his contract, demonstrating it was a low risk/high reward situation. If he sucks (like he does), thats not too bad. Only 2 years. Whereas Zito is stuck on the team for 5 years and $90 million, regardless of his performance. Zito takes the cake.

CAIN=FUTURE
07-28-2008, 02:08 AM
Shouldn't you be building your Angel Villalona shrine?

Its finished. I actully made a 7ft solid gold statue of him in my back yard.

TheShock45
07-28-2008, 02:35 AM
[QUOTE]Originally Posted by jscotty8
Last offseason Colletti's big free agent signing was Jones, Sabean's was Rowand... Jones is the worst signing of all last season... Rowand might be the best
QUOTE]

isnt it funny how they were both suppose to sign the opposite

Seamhead
07-28-2008, 02:41 AM
How has Rowand been one of the best signings?:confused:

CAIN=FUTURE
07-28-2008, 02:43 AM
How has Rowand been one of the best signings?:confused:

Its simple actully. Aaron Rowand + signed by Giants = awesome signing, compared to, Aaron Rowand = signed by Jerk *** dodgers = terrible siging.

Seamhead
07-28-2008, 02:49 AM
Its simple actully. Aaron Rowand + signed by Giants = awesome signing, compared to, Aaron Rowand = signed by Jerk *** dodgers = terrible siging.

How was it an awesome signing, again/

CAIN=FUTURE
07-28-2008, 02:52 AM
How was it an awesome signing, again/

Did you not understand my chart? Who ever the Giants sign is an awesome signing. Including ZITO!!!


I ****ing hate Zito :mad:!

GHGHCP
07-28-2008, 03:03 AM
Did you not understand my chart? Who ever the Giants sign is an awesome signing. Including ZITO!!!


I ****ing hate Zito :mad:!

You seem upset about something Cain. Could it be that Padre fans chant 'Beat LA" the loudest? :D

CAIN=FUTURE
07-28-2008, 03:08 AM
You seem upset about something Cain. Could it be that Padre fans chant 'Beat LA" the loudest? :D

BEAT LA!!!!!!!! Beat that Padre fans.

Im mad cause it just dawned on me that the Giants are terrible and Barry Zito is a ****ing piece of ****. This sweeping by the D-Bags made me get in touch with my self. :(/:mad:.

yojoe792
07-28-2008, 10:20 AM
Its simple actully. Aaron Rowand + signed by Giants = awesome signing, compared to, Aaron Rowand = signed by Jerk *** dodgers = terrible siging.

The Rowand signing was horrible, not because he isn't a good player, but does not fit the game plan of the Giants. They are now stuck with 2 monster long-term contracts for 5 years, eliminating any chance to rebuild. Horrible.

C1Bman88
07-28-2008, 10:40 AM
The Rowand signing was horrible, not because he isn't a good player, but does not fit the game plan of the Giants. They are now stuck with 2 monster long-term contracts for 5 years, eliminating any chance to rebuild. Horrible.

Rowand has a moveable contract; Zito does not.

By the way, how does this eliminate any chance to rebuild?

Humongo
07-28-2008, 11:03 AM
I think we're discussing current GM's, not including fired ones. If we were, Dave Littlefield would most likely be considered the worst GM.

I was responding to a post in which someone called Wade the worst GM of all time.

Humongo
07-28-2008, 11:10 AM
How was it an awesome signing, again/

It was an awesome signing because not only can Aaron Rowand play baseball, he's got mad acting skills. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mGwHV3SWC0)

jsand3030
07-28-2008, 11:34 AM
Brian Sabean
Negatives: Continues to sign veterans to long-term contracts, although rebuilding appears a necessity. BARRY ZITO!:rolleyes: 5 more years of him at $18 mill/year. Never understood why he is not trading some of his vets for prospects, seems to avoid the process of rebuilding. BARRY ZITO!!:rolleyes:

Positives: Traded Ray Durham for prospects, a move that will help the team in the long run. He should do the same for other vets such as Roberts and Vizquel. Avoided Barry Bonds. Avoided trading Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum when star players were offered to them. Uhh, that's it.


Ned Colletti

Negitives: Andruw Jones, Jason Schmidt, Nomar, etc. Continues to sign older players, injured or struggling, to contracts of over $10 mill. Refuses to trade 4 prospects away for star names, but will trade 2-3 for an old washed up rental.

Positives: Avoids long term contracts (with the exception of Juan Pierre, who all-in-all is doing what he is paid for.) Is criticized very harshly for Andruw Jones, but signed him to very little guaranteed money, and he is out after next season. A small gamble that didn't pay off. Has maintained one of baseball's best farm systems. This turned out great in several scenarios, i.e. james loney, matt kemp, russ martin. Furcal had a good run.



THE AWARD GOES TO.....BRIAN SABEAN!! Not just a homer pick.

REASON: He is not guiding this team in any definite direction. He makes moves a contending team would make, even though the time is to rebuild. At least Colletti knows what he's doing, its just that the signings are bad.


First of all this is a ******** thread... and you contradict yourself every time you make a point... "Colleti knows what hes doing, its just that the signings are bad." I guess you conveniently forgot or left out what sabean has done the last 12 years.. All the playoff wins and great players hes brought in. the trades of Matt Williams for Jeff Kent, Julian Taveraz, Jose Vizcaino and Joe Roa, and trading no one for J.T Snow. trading Joe Fantanot, Mike Pagelar, and Mike Villano for Robb Nen. Or Armando Rios and Ryan Vogelsong for Jason Schmidt and John Van Der Wal.
What about picking up kenny lofton, livan Hernandez, Kirk Rueter and aurillia-- and all of the FAs all of the years that the Giants have been able to sign too.. Burks, Santiago, Molina, David Bell, Mike Matheny, Reggie Sanders and Ray Durham all these players were great pick ups when the giants were specifically built around Bonds.. All the playoff wins and great players hes brought in. Now Sabean has shed the "team built around Bonds" approach and has begun restocking and rebuilding...

What exactly has Colletii guided the dodgers to? Did you actually give him a positive that says, "Has maintained one of baseball's best farm systems'? Thats the worse BSing than Ive ever seen... good maintenance Ned! Besides all he did was inherit that farm system. The Dodgers are a mediocre team in a bad division. Hes made many questionable signings that add up to the lame Zito signing.. and your spin on Juan pierre is hilarious..

All this adds up to is that both GMs haven't really done whole lot of good that last couple of years.. If you look at Sabeans history as a whole, its not bad at all, Coletti hasnt done anything yet .. Well see what happens to these teams in the near future, unless its too late for one or both GMs...

GHGHCP
07-28-2008, 12:23 PM
Ned Colletti is pretty bad. Like was said hardly any of his trades have worked out and most of his FA signings have tanked. He inherited one of the best farm systems in the league and deals solid prospects for stop gaps, rentals or horrible vets.

Lets take a look at the 08' payroll that isn't a major part of the club this season that are his work.

Jason Schmidt - 15,217,401
Andruw Jones - 14,726,910
Nomar Garciaparra - 9,516,697
Gary Bennett - 825,000
Scott Proctor - 1,115,000
Estaban Loaiza - 7,000,000 (plus 375k buyout for '09)

Grand total: $48,776,008

This is more payroll them some teams...

dodgerblue6
07-28-2008, 08:25 PM
im a huge dodgers fan but i would have to say Colletti..mostly because if the Andruw Jones signing....Sabean signed Zito when he was in his prime and traded for Kent for Matt Williams when was decling...all Ned does is sign for washed up players that have nothing to prove

yojoe792
07-29-2008, 12:23 AM
First of all this is a ******** thread... and you contradict yourself every time you make a point... "Colleti knows what hes doing, its just that the signings are bad." I guess you conveniently forgot or left out what sabean has done the last 12 years.. All the playoff wins and great players hes brought in. the trades of Matt Williams for Jeff Kent, Julian Taveraz, Jose Vizcaino and Joe Roa, and trading no one for J.T Snow. trading Joe Fantanot, Mike Pagelar, and Mike Villano for Robb Nen. Or Armando Rios and Ryan Vogelsong for Jason Schmidt and John Van Der Wal.
What about picking up kenny lofton, livan Hernandez, Kirk Rueter and aurillia-- and all of the FAs all of the years that the Giants have been able to sign too.. Burks, Santiago, Molina, David Bell, Mike Matheny, Reggie Sanders and Ray Durham all these players were great pick ups when the giants were specifically built around Bonds.. All the playoff wins and great players hes brought in. Now Sabean has shed the "team built around Bonds" approach and has begun restocking and rebuilding...

What exactly has Colletii guided the dodgers to? Did you actually give him a positive that says, "Has maintained one of baseball's best farm systems'? Thats the worse BSing than Ive ever seen... good maintenance Ned! Besides all he did was inherit that farm system. The Dodgers are a mediocre team in a bad division. Hes made many questionable signings that add up to the lame Zito signing.. and your spin on Juan pierre is hilarious..

All this adds up to is that both GMs haven't really done whole lot of good that last couple of years.. If you look at Sabeans history as a whole, its not bad at all, Coletti hasnt done anything yet .. Well see what happens to these teams in the near future, unless its too late for one or both GMs...

HAH, I actually found the bold funny.

This thread is not about 12 years ago. This is about now. Is it correct to say Ken Griffey Jr. is an elite player in the league? No. 12 years ago, yes, but that's not what we are talking about, not the issue.

The same goes for Sabean. He did some very good things for this team in the last decade. Unfortunately for the Dodgers, I cannot say the same for Colletti.

However, Colletti did not permanately ****** our team in the *** for the next several years. Bad contracts expire soon (Jones, Nomar, Schmidt, etc.), our farm system is as strong as ever (one of the league's best), we have young, major league ready talent who are promising to improve immensly. The Giants cannot say anything regarding their future, other than exclaim "TIM LINCECUM!" and jump for joy.

C1Bman88
07-29-2008, 12:50 AM
However, Colletti did not permanately ****** our team in the *** for the next several years. Bad contracts expire soon (Jones, Nomar, Schmidt, etc.), our farm system is as strong as ever (one of the league's best), we have young, major league ready talent who are promising to improve immensly. The Giants cannot say anything regarding their future, other than exclaim "TIM LINCECUM!" and jump for joy.

Please do a bit of research on other team's farm systems before making remarks like that. It makes you come across as ignorant.

CAIN=FUTURE
07-29-2008, 01:24 AM
Please do a bit of research on other team's farm systems before making remarks like that. It makes you come across as ignorant.

As always, well mostly, I agree with C1B.

Giants4Tniners
07-29-2008, 03:06 PM
HAH, I actually found the bold funny.

This thread is not about 12 years ago. This is about now. Is it correct to say Ken Griffey Jr. is an elite player in the league? No. 12 years ago, yes, but that's not what we are talking about, not the issue.

The same goes for Sabean. He did some very good things for this team in the last decade. Unfortunately for the Dodgers, I cannot say the same for Colletti.

However, Colletti did not permanately ****** our team in the *** for the next several years. Bad contracts expire soon (Jones, Nomar, Schmidt, etc.), our farm system is as strong as ever (one of the league's best), we have young, major league ready talent who are promising to improve immensly. The Giants cannot say anything regarding their future, other than exclaim "TIM LINCECUM!" and jump for joy.

Another brilliant post, The Giants have Lincecum, Cain, Sanchez in the rotation(all under 25) and more pitching on the farm and have some decent younger players on the team already(Bowker,Burriss,Lewis) and hopefully soon Posey and Gilespie . To say we have nothing in our future is a Homer Dodger fan talking, every year I hear you guys crowing about your great talent but they sure dont do much in the standings, Colletti is a dog. I'm not fond of Sabean anymore either . But try to be a little objective if youre making a comparison. Keep up the maintenence Ned!