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SAVAGE CLAW
07-27-2008, 12:10 AM
Ok i would like to know what your opinion is on spanish players on Nba.

How would you rate them?

In my opinion.

Sergio Rodriguez : top 40 in Point Guards.

Calderon : Top 5 in Point Guards top 40 overall.

Rudy Fernandez : Top 5 in Rookies top 15 in Small Guards.

Pau Gasol: Top 3 in Power Fowards top 10 overall.

Marc Gasol:Top 10 in rookies top 20 in Centers

KG#1
07-27-2008, 12:15 AM
calderon top 5? pau top 3?
i think not

marvILLous
07-27-2008, 12:23 AM
calderon top 10 PG
gasol top 10 PF

thats more like it.

Goon.Weezy
07-27-2008, 12:23 AM
SPAIN IS GONNA WIN THE GOLD AT THE OLYMPICSs...........USa think they the best in the world..BUT THEY NOT

ink
07-27-2008, 12:31 AM
calderon top 10 PG
gasol top 10 PF

thats more like it.

I agree. And that's not an insult. Top 10 at your position is pretty elite company.

SAVAGE CLAW
07-27-2008, 12:32 AM
calderon top 5? pau top 3?
i think not

Calderon top 5 amongst Point Guards.

Not overall.

Mile High Champ
07-27-2008, 12:34 AM
Calderon is closer to be a top 5 pg than being near 9 or 10. Only guys I would want over him right now are Paul, Willaims, Nash, Baron Davis and maybe kidd but I see kidd and calderon being on the same level next year considering Kidd's age and his play beggining to falter and show consistent turnovers. Calderon is close to top 5.

Gasol top 10 pf... no where near top 5 though.

bogdanrom
07-27-2008, 12:39 AM
Calderon top 5 amongst Point Guards.

Not overall.

1. Chris Paul
2. Steve Nash
3. Deron Williams
4. Chris Paul
5. Tony Parker
6. Gilbert Arenas
7. Jason Kidd
8. Chauncey Billups
Then maybe Calderon. Plus is you consider Iverson a PG then he is 10th. unless I'm forgetting someone.

patriotsfan50
07-27-2008, 12:40 AM
i think calderon had a good end of the year last year but he will need to back it up this year to be considered top anything. top 10 pgs right now.

gasol is a good PF top 10 no doubt.

sergio is good in an open offense but needs to improve in the half court game. top 40 pgs probably.

based on what rudy did in europe the last couple years. he probably got the most hype around him right now. as far as hype goes hes probably the number 1 guy to come out of spain. in reality till he proves it in the nba. probably top 30 sgs and top 40 SF's.

dominicanboy193
07-27-2008, 12:45 AM
Ok i would like to know what your opinion is on spanish players on Nba.

How would you rate them?

In my opinion.

Sergio Rodriguez : top 40 in Point Guards.

Calderon : Top 5 in Point Guards top 40 overall.

Rudy Fernandez : Top 5 in Rookies top 15 in Small Guards.

Pau Gasol: Top 3 in Power Fowards top 10 overall.

Marc Gasol:Top 10 in rookies top 20 in Centers





how yah not going to have ma boy Francisco Garcia and AL Horford their Spanish their Dominican like me lol:D

2nd_COMING
07-27-2008, 12:45 AM
Ok i would like to know what your opinion is on spanish players on Nba.

How would you rate them?

In my opinion.

Sergio Rodriguez : top 40 in Point Guards.

Calderon : Top 5 in Point Guards top 40 overall.

Rudy Fernandez : Top 5 in Rookies top 15 in Small Guards.

Pau Gasol: Top 3 in Power Fowards top 10 overall.

Marc Gasol:Top 10 in rookies top 20 in Centers

i c wut u did thur :pity:

ink
07-27-2008, 12:46 AM
Rondo, Terry and Miller are also close to Calderon. He's usually ranked between 8-12 in the L. I'm a fan, but there's no need to exaggerate. Top 10 is high enough. That's not to say he won't continue to rise though. He's the type of player that steadily improves. Go Jose! in Beijing!!!

AFlagRules
07-27-2008, 12:49 AM
1. Chris Paul
2. Steve Nash
3. Deron Williams
4. Chris Paul
5. Tony Parker
6. Gilbert Arenas
7. Jason Kidd
8. Chauncey Billups
Then maybe Calderon. Plus is you consider Iverson a PG then he is 10th. unless I'm forgetting someone.


Chris Paul is on the list twice. Easy buddy.

Gilbert Arenas is a better SHOOTING GUARD than Calderon. Calderon is easily a much better POINT GUARD. But yes, i agree with most of your list except Arenas and Kidd. I would put Calderon currently 6th ahead of Jason Kidd because of whats been mentioned before - Kidd's age and his numbers, or lack there of.

1. Chris Paul
2. Steve Nash
3. Deron Williams
4. Tony Parker
5. Chauncey Billups
6. Jose Calderon
7. Jason Kidd

Mile High Champ
07-27-2008, 12:50 AM
1. Chris Paul
2. Steve Nash
3. Deron Williams
4. Chris Paul
5. Tony Parker
6. Gilbert Arenas
7. Jason Kidd
8. Chauncey Billups
Then maybe Calderon. Plus is you consider Iverson a PG then he is 10th. unless I'm forgetting someone.

Hahah yeah what did arenas do last year, Ohh i forgot he was injured..Not to mentiuon he doesnt even average 5 assists per game and doesnt even play an ounce of defense.. Arenas aint even top 10. You can though make a case for everyone else you mentioned but Kidd as I see him really on the downside of his career. He was a turnover machine last year...it will only get worse.

AFlagRules
07-27-2008, 12:51 AM
I mean if 14/10 #'s as a starter, and having one of the best if not the best A/T ratio's in the league does not put you in the mix with the already "best" in the league. I don't know whats to be expected.


Hahah yeah what did arenas do last year, Ohh i forgot he was injured..Not to mentiuon he doesnt even average 5 assists per game and doesnt even play an ounce of defense.. Arenas aint even top 10. You can though make a case for everyone else you mentioned but Kidd as I see him really on the downside of his career. He was a turnover machine last year...it will only get worse.


He also scored 30 PPG. He definitely deserves to be in the top 10 SG's in the league. Maybe even 5. I just don't consider him a PG.

ArtVandelay
07-27-2008, 01:09 AM
only 1 post of 15 mentions baron davis ahead of calderon...the man get almost as many or more APG...more PPG and comes close to leading the league in steals every year...thats a pretty big slight to a player who can take over a game by himself on any given night

bogdanrom
07-27-2008, 01:14 AM
Chris Paul is on the list twice. Easy buddy.

Gilbert Arenas is a better SHOOTING GUARD than Calderon. Calderon is easily a much better POINT GUARD. But yes, i agree with most of your list except Arenas and Kidd. I would put Calderon currently 6th ahead of Jason Kidd because of whats been mentioned before - Kidd's age and his numbers, or lack there of.

1. Chris Paul
2. Steve Nash
3. Deron Williams
4. Tony Parker
5. Chauncey Billups
6. Jose Calderon
7. Jason Kidd

By bad I meant Baron Davis. Arenas is listed as a PG. That's why I put him there.

bogdanrom
07-27-2008, 01:18 AM
Hahah yeah what did arenas do last year, Ohh i forgot he was injured..Not to mentiuon he doesnt even average 5 assists per game and doesnt even play an ounce of defense.. Arenas aint even top 10. You can though make a case for everyone else you mentioned but Kidd as I see him really on the downside of his career. He was a turnover machine last year...it will only get worse.

The two seasons before he got injured he averaged 6 APG. He has a a career assist average of 5.5. He's far from a defensive menace but he has averaged almost and 2 SPG almost every year of his career. Plus Jose is one year older than Gilbert. And how many All Star Games has Calderon been to? Oh yeah none. Get your facts straight before you challenge me.

bogdanrom
07-27-2008, 01:21 AM
Oh and I forgot. Arenas is a top 10 SG or PG. There are not a lot of players out there that can give you 30PPG, 6 APG, 2 SPG and 4 to 5 rebounds

JWalk126
07-27-2008, 01:25 AM
for some reason I thought there were more Spaniards in the NBA, might be thinking of JC Navarro and Garbo

Mile High Champ
07-27-2008, 02:21 AM
The two seasons before he got injured he averaged 6 APG. He has a a career assist average of 5.5. He's far from a defensive menace but he has averaged almost and 2 SPG almost every year of his career. Plus Jose is one year older than Gilbert. And how many All Star Games has Calderon been to? Oh yeah none. Get your facts straight before you challenge me.

Im sorry but cant you give me one example of a pg who is considered a great player all time that averaged less than 6 assists per game per year. No You cant, its as simple as that. Arenas is beyond overated in every possible area of his game except for making the clutch shot. He ends up jacking up the most shots per year which gives him that high scoring average. Sure he gets 28 a game when healthy but he takes more than 20 shots to do it and averages a terrible .418% from the field. Not very great numbers that jump off the map for you, especially as a pg who's JOB IS TO OPERATE AND RUN THE OFFENSE! Yes a point guard can score and create plays for himself but his sole purpose is to run the offense and help set up his teamates. Arenas has never done this in his life. He is a classic ball hog that would rather jack a 3 or a fade away jumper over two guys than pass the ball.

I guess you just happened to miss every wizards game over the last few years beacause it is quite obvious he may have the worst defense of any pg in the league. Getting steals does not make you a great defender, it just means he is getting in between the passing lanes and knocking balls away. He is a terrible one on one defender and never bothers to help a team mate on a rotation. He is just pure awful when it comes to being a pg. Its not all about allstar games that make a player. Ill take the best assist to turnover ratio in the past 12 years, compared to arenas 3.5 to 4.0 he usually averages. Or maybe Calderon's .518 FG% or hey maybe that 8.3 assists he averaged last year, and those averages dropped only cause he wasnt the starter every game last year. He would of been at close to 10 as a starter. Not to mention actually being a good teamate and player who feeds off making his team better and not serving his ego before the teams debelopment like arenas....Do I have to go on further? Im sorry buddy but you got your facts way mixed up here.

Hellcrooner
07-27-2008, 03:00 AM
ok ill rate former and current spaniards.

Pg:

Sergio Rodriguez: CRAP shoudl be back to spain already.

Raul Lopez: a pity his leg didnt work out could have been top 20.

Jose Calderon: a lock for me in top 10 and if we are talking about TRADITIONAL pass first, point guards he may be only behind of Nash battling with kid for the second place.

Of course Paul or Deron pr bIllups (not arenas stat maker ballhog)are better
but they play different styles.

SG

Navarro: he proved he could start for a lottery team so i guess he coudl have been top 30 in Shooting guards.

Rudy: well its yet to see if Mcmillan the American Chauvinist cuts some slack for him or decides to bury him in the bench like he did with Sergio ( only that sergio deserved to be benched) making exuses about Defense ....

if he alows him to play his 25 minutes he will be in the rookie game, could develop a Manu ginobili career annd be a top 10 sg like manu.

Sf: Garbo was an Usefull 6th Man.

PF: Gasol , well in my eyes he is clearly worst than TD and KG and on par with a lot of the great PFowards out there like Dirk, BRand, Boozer , Bosh or Stoudamire.... i rank him third but you could rank him behind all of them deppending on what you valuate in a player.
Of course yu have to take on account that on the top 20 players of the league thereare like 8 power fowards and 5 or 6 sg....

C:

Fernando Martin: Never had a real chance. R.i.P

MArc Gasol: i expect him to be on teh rookie game too, but i woundt bet on him doing ALL he can , and he could be a 17/10 guy, basically because Gay amyo and COnley are not gonna let him more than 2- 4 shots a game...

Gven the LACK of true , teached to be striclty centers, 7 footers with fundamentasl and quality as he has, and how weak has the position become in teh league, could become top 10 in centers.

heyman321
07-27-2008, 03:26 AM
Im sorry but cant you give me one example of a pg who is considered a great player all time that averaged less than 6 assists per game per year. No You cant, its as simple as that. Arenas is beyond overated in every possible area of his game except for making the clutch shot. He ends up jacking up the most shots per year which gives him that high scoring average. Sure he gets 28 a game when healthy but he takes more than 20 shots to do it and averages a terrible .418% from the field. Not very great numbers that jump off the map for you, especially as a pg who's JOB IS TO OPERATE AND RUN THE OFFENSE! Yes a point guard can score and create plays for himself but his sole purpose is to run the offense and help set up his teamates. Arenas has never done this in his life. He is a classic ball hog that would rather jack a 3 or a fade away jumper over two guys than pass the ball.

I guess you just happened to miss every wizards game over the last few years beacause it is quite obvious he may have the worst defense of any pg in the league. Getting steals does not make you a great defender, it just means he is getting in between the passing lanes and knocking balls away. He is a terrible one on one defender and never bothers to help a team mate on a rotation. He is just pure awful when it comes to being a pg. Its not all about allstar games that make a player. Ill take the best assist to turnover ratio in the past 12 years, compared to arenas 3.5 to 4.0 he usually averages. Or maybe Calderon's .518 FG% or hey maybe that 8.3 assists he averaged last year, and those averages dropped only cause he wasnt the starter every game last year. He would of been at close to 10 as a starter. Not to mention actually being a good teamate and player who feeds off making his team better and not serving his ego before the teams debelopment like arenas....Do I have to go on further? Im sorry buddy but you got your facts way mixed up here.

Jesus, thank you. Arenas is cocky and everyone knows Jose was snubbed from the all star game, even Charles Barkley himself said so (or Kenny Smith, can't remember which :rolleyes: )

innovator
07-27-2008, 04:18 AM
(PER)
1. Amare Stoudemire (27.61 as 1st option)
2. Kevin Garnett (25.30 as 2nd option)
4. Dirk Nowitzki (24.66 as 1st option)
3. Tim Duncan (24.41 as 1st option)
5. Carlos Boozer (21.96 as 1st option)
6. Chris Bosh (23.88 as 1st option)
7. Pau Gasol (21.68 as 2nd option)

even only as the 2nd option of the lakers gasol still gets good numbers and he is the main reason why the lakers made the finals, the lakers were very strong in the season when they got gasol

so gasol is top 7 pf IN MY OPINION

AIMelo=KillaDUO
07-27-2008, 05:20 AM
wow ur lyin if u really think calderon is top 5... i can name 5 off tha top of my head better than him

CP3
DWill
Nash
Arenas
Tony Parker
Baron Davis
just to name a few.

spurhead
07-27-2008, 05:51 AM
1. Chris Paul
2. Steve Nash
3. Deron Williams
4. Chris Paul
5. Tony Parker
6. Gilbert Arenas
7. Jason Kidd
8. Chauncey Billups
Then maybe Calderon. Plus is you consider Iverson a PG then he is 10th. unless I'm forgetting someone.

yep
do not even say calderon is a top 5 pg yet let him play as a starter
last year he even admitted he was better playing off the bench with tj as the starter
when he was the starter he had some trouble so well see wat happens.
either way these alot more pgs that are better than him
and dont say pau is a top 3 pf ll
more like top 10
duncan kg and dirk are better than him by alot lol

well jus see dwight blast pau everywhere its ok...
well see calderon get smashed by chris paul and deron williams its ok
well see the usa get gold and spain gettin nuthin ... boo whooo spain isnt good

innovator
07-27-2008, 06:14 AM
yep
do not even say calderon is a top 5 pg yet let him play as a starter
last year he even admitted he was better playing off the bench with tj as the starter
when he was the starter he had some trouble so well see wat happens.
either way these alot more pgs that are better than him
and dont say pau is a top 3 pf ll
more like top 10
duncan kg and dirk are better than him by alot lol

well jus see dwight blast pau everywhere its ok...
well see calderon get smashed by chris paul and deron williams its ok
well see the usa get gold and spain gettin nuthin ... boo whooo spain isnt good

im rooting and i know that team USA will win but ur wrong when u said that spain isnt good because spain did win the fiba championships

Rapthug
07-27-2008, 06:45 AM
Im sorry but cant you give me one example of a pg who is considered a great player all time that averaged less than 6 assists per game per year. No You cant, its as simple as that. Arenas is beyond overated in every possible area of his game except for making the clutch shot. He ends up jacking up the most shots per year which gives him that high scoring average. Sure he gets 28 a game when healthy but he takes more than 20 shots to do it and averages a terrible .418% from the field. Not very great numbers that jump off the map for you, especially as a pg who's JOB IS TO OPERATE AND RUN THE OFFENSE! Yes a point guard can score and create plays for himself but his sole purpose is to run the offense and help set up his teamates. Arenas has never done this in his life. He is a classic ball hog that would rather jack a 3 or a fade away jumper over two guys than pass the ball.

I guess you just happened to miss every wizards game over the last few years beacause it is quite obvious he may have the worst defense of any pg in the league. Getting steals does not make you a great defender, it just means he is getting in between the passing lanes and knocking balls away. He is a terrible one on one defender and never bothers to help a team mate on a rotation. He is just pure awful when it comes to being a pg. Its not all about allstar games that make a player. Ill take the best assist to turnover ratio in the past 12 years, compared to arenas 3.5 to 4.0 he usually averages. Or maybe Calderon's .518 FG% or hey maybe that 8.3 assists he averaged last year, and those averages dropped only cause he wasnt the starter every game last year. He would of been at close to 10 as a starter. Not to mention actually being a good teamate and player who feeds off making his team better and not serving his ego before the teams debelopment like arenas....Do I have to go on further? Im sorry buddy but you got your facts way mixed up here.

Amen! I couldn't have said it better myself. The most overrated player in the league by far. And I don't think anyone is as arrogant as he is......his NBA.com blog is going to his head. I really hope the Wiz suck but I'm sure Gilbert will have some excuse......likely that he's hurt.....funny how the Wiz seem to play better without him anyways.

innovator
07-27-2008, 06:55 AM
everyone knows that gilbert can really play ball when his 100% and a PG doesnt necesarilly mean that that player should have many assists, their are types of PG . pass 1st PG and shoot 1st PG , arenas belongs to the shoot 1st PG category along with AI,fisher,baron,hinrich,parker,ford,bibby,etc.. the PG who are in the pass 1st cateregory are nash,calderon,cp3,kidd,rondo,etc.. arenas is not overated nor underated he is rated normally, and as a 2ND ROUND PICK he is very overachieving and he deserves every penny that he gets

last 3 seasons before his injury
2005- 25.5 ppg, 5.1 apg, 1.7 spg
2006- 29.3 ppg, 6.1 apg, 2.0 spg
2007- 28.4 ppg, 6.0 apg, 1.9 spg

when 100% arenas clearly belongs to the top 5 PG list

Rox07
07-27-2008, 07:41 AM
I hope your talking about top 10 spanish pg's b/c if your talking about overall NBA then HELL no none of those guys crack the top 10 list.

Knicks845
07-27-2008, 08:11 AM
1. Chris Paul
2. Steve Nash
3. Deron Williams
4. Chris Paul
5. Tony Parker
6. Gilbert Arenas
7. Jason Kidd
8. Chauncey Billups
Then maybe Calderon. Plus is you consider Iverson a PG then he is 10th. unless I'm forgetting someone.

Your are forgetting someone.... Stephon Marbury!? Duhhh

monty77
07-27-2008, 08:21 AM
Ok i would like to know what your opinion is on spanish players on Nba.

How would you rate them?

In my opinion.

Sergio Rodriguez : top 40 in Point Guards.

Calderon : Top 5 in Point Guards top 40 overall.

Rudy Fernandez : Top 5 in Rookies top 15 in Small Guards.

Pau Gasol: Top 3 in Power Fowards top 10 overall.

Marc Gasol:Top 10 in rookies top 20 in Centers


I'm 24, from castellon (spain), I watch nba since 1999, when any spanish play in nba, so imagine i am happy. I bealive calderon is only top 10, and gasol is top 5-10 PF, but i must to say that the best spanish is only 17, and he'll a megastar, riky rubio is perfect nba player. Sergio Rodriguez has bad luck because this trainner don't get him a chance, he's better player that show in nba. Navarro, raul lopez and Garbajosa can play in nba. I don't understand Fran Vazquez case in Orlando (number 11 draft), he is only secord round and marc is top 10, Rudy Fernandez is the best ally-opp player in Europa and have great leadership, I wish Brandoy Roy and him can play togheter. Let's go bulls!!!

JWalk126
07-27-2008, 08:35 AM
which Gasol? Pau claims that Marc is better than he is

Mile High Champ
07-27-2008, 09:51 AM
everyone knows that gilbert can really play ball when his 100% and a PG doesnt necesarilly mean that that player should have many assists, their are types of PG . pass 1st PG and shoot 1st PG , arenas belongs to the shoot 1st PG category along with AI,fisher,baron,hinrich,parker,ford,bibby,etc.. the PG who are in the pass 1st cateregory are nash,calderon,cp3,kidd,rondo,etc.. arenas is not overated nor underated he is rated normally, and as a 2ND ROUND PICK he is very overachieving and he deserves every penny that he gets

last 3 seasons before his injury
2005- 25.5 ppg, 5.1 apg, 1.7 spg
2006- 29.3 ppg, 6.1 apg, 2.0 spg
2007- 28.4 ppg, 6.0 apg, 1.9 spg

when 100% arenas clearly belongs to the top 5 PG list

You are missing what I am saying, you ignored every reason I gave why Arenas is not a good pg. First off Iverson and is not a pg in any respect, and the other shoot first pg's you mentioned are not even a great showcase of talent. Did you happen to notice that only one of those players you mentioned as a shoot first pg's are in the top 10 at their position. Only Parker belongs there. Though TJ ford likes to shoot first sometimes, he still manages to get up close to 8 assists per game when he is starting and healthy. Unlike Arenas he actually realizes when its a good time to pass the the ball off. His stats as I mentioned are a clearly inflated product of what he does to get them. There is no excuse why a pg's assists numbers should be that terrible when you have teamates as talented as Caron Butler and Jamison to pass off to when you get doubled team.

Mile High Champ
07-27-2008, 09:58 AM
yep
do not even say calderon is a top 5 pg yet let him play as a starter
last year he even admitted he was better playing off the bench with tj as the starter
when he was the starter he had some trouble so well see wat happens.
either way these alot more pgs that are better than him
and dont say pau is a top 3 pf ll
more like top 10
duncan kg and dirk are better than him by alot lol

well jus see dwight blast pau everywhere its ok...
well see calderon get smashed by chris paul and deron williams its ok
well see the usa get gold and spain gettin nuthin ... boo whooo spain isnt good


How many raptor games did you watch last season? It also maybe helpfull not to preach on things you truly dont understand in regard to a player. In regard to your first comment..


last year he even admitted he was better playing off the bench with tj as the starter

See you have already messed up in your post, He admitted he was best served as the teams backup pg because TJ Ford's game struggled off the bench last season and ford's ego was slightly damaged after he lost the starting job. Its not that Calderon said he was suppose to be a backup up pg in his career, he felt it better served the team if He could help Ford's game out by coming off the bench. The sign of a great teamate putting ahead his own ego for the teams development. What trouble are you gettting at? he always played at a high level and adjusted nicely to playing more than 35 mins a game and that showed in his played and productivity in terms of assist to turnover ratio. There is no need to lecture someone who watched calderon play over 65 times last season. You may have your own opinions and thats fine but dont make up statements and call them the facts and the truth.

Cheers

mike_noodles
07-27-2008, 10:24 AM
There is no need to lecture someone who watched calderon play over 65 times last season. You may have your own opinions and thats fine but dont make up statements and call them the facts and the truth.

Cheers

And as a guy who watched even more than that, I can vouch for the fact that Calderon admitted that the team would be better with TJ starting b/c he was pouting when he came off the bench, but one thing is for sure, Jose did not struggle as the starting PG, I would put him in the top 6 PG in the league, and reallistically if you look at % numbers, 50%fg, 40%3fg, 90%ft I think has only been done one other time in league history, not to mention league leader in assist to turnover ratio and 5th in the league in assists. His stats from last season would indicate that he is actually a top 5 PG only behind Paul, Nash and Williams.

JWalk126
07-27-2008, 11:14 AM
Edit: nevermind, wrong year

Laxer38922
07-27-2008, 11:24 AM
Best Spanish PG isn't even in the NBA yet, he will be next year though... Ricky Rubio will destroy the NBA

Hellcrooner
07-27-2008, 11:50 AM
I'm 24, from castellon (spain), I watch nba since 1999, when any spanish play in nba, so imagine i am happy. I bealive calderon is only top 10, and gasol is top 5-10 PF, but i must to say that the best spanish is only 17, and he'll a megastar, riky rubio is perfect nba player. Sergio Rodriguez has bad luck because this trainner don't get him a chance, he's better player that show in nba. Navarro, raul lopez and Garbajosa can play in nba. I don't understand Fran Vazquez case in Orlando (number 11 draft), he is only secord round and marc is top 10, Rudy Fernandez is the best ally-opp player in Europa and have great leadership, I wish Brandoy Roy and him can play togheter. Let's go bulls!!!

Wellcome

Ricky has still a lot of work to do, ihope he does not jump in the league too soon, like next year and develops his game more.

IF he does so he could be a big impact no doubt, no americna palyer at age 17 has 3 full top flight seasons of experience in the second best league in teh world plus euroleague and has also been in a national team in teh olympics.

Ah yeah to that guy that said spain is no good, well usa May win the gold but the thing it is their OBLIGATION to win it, any other thing is an UTTER ridicule, while in the case of spain a Silver or BRonze medal is quite an Achievemente, and having in mind we are WORLD champions you cant rule us out.


FUnny so now we have an Spanish Laker ( me) an SPanish Knick ,( Claw) and an Spanish BUll :P we must find some Spanish Celtic and some Spanish SIxer to go Classic!!!

KG#1
07-27-2008, 01:00 PM
both forgot baron davis on ur lists
arenas is a point guard hes better with the ball in his hands than off ball he scores almost all his points using his dribble and thats what a pg does he also is top 10 in the league in assists(i think)

bogdanrom
07-27-2008, 01:14 PM
Im sorry but cant you give me one example of a pg who is considered a great player all time that averaged less than 6 assists per game per year. No You cant, its as simple as that. Arenas is beyond overated in every possible area of his game except for making the clutch shot. He ends up jacking up the most shots per year which gives him that high scoring average. Sure he gets 28 a game when healthy but he takes more than 20 shots to do it and averages a terrible .418% from the field. Not very great numbers that jump off the map for you, especially as a pg who's JOB IS TO OPERATE AND RUN THE OFFENSE! Yes a point guard can score and create plays for himself but his sole purpose is to run the offense and help set up his teamates. Arenas has never done this in his life. He is a classic ball hog that would rather jack a 3 or a fade away jumper over two guys than pass the ball.

I guess you just happened to miss every wizards game over the last few years beacause it is quite obvious he may have the worst defense of any pg in the league. Getting steals does not make you a great defender, it just means he is getting in between the passing lanes and knocking balls away. He is a terrible one on one defender and never bothers to help a team mate on a rotation. He is just pure awful when it comes to being a pg. Its not all about allstar games that make a player. Ill take the best assist to turnover ratio in the past 12 years, compared to arenas 3.5 to 4.0 he usually averages. Or maybe Calderon's .518 FG% or hey maybe that 8.3 assists he averaged last year, and those averages dropped only cause he wasnt the starter every game last year. He would of been at close to 10 as a starter. Not to mention actually being a good teamate and player who feeds off making his team better and not serving his ego before the teams debelopment like arenas....Do I have to go on further? Im sorry buddy but you got your facts way mixed up here.

Okay first of all Arenas is not the typical point guard, pass first. Jose is. I'm not bashing Jose. He is a very good point guard. But not top 5 maybe top 10. 8,9,10. Clam down. He averages 2 more assists than Arenas. Wow. That's a lot. Arenas averages 20 more points per game than Jose. And you mention defense. Since when is Jose Calderon a defender. I always see videos of him getting scored on ,dunked on, or on his butt. Not to mention even when he came of the bench he still played 30 minutes per game. I do agree that Arenas has a huge ego but that's what makes him play better. He's a weird dude but a better one than Calderon. Ask anyone in the league, who they fear more Arenas or Calderon, and everyone will tell you Arenas. The only reason he had such a good season last year was because nobody even heard of him before. I am sorry buddy but Arenas is better than Calderon anyday, everyday. I have no idea how you can even try to compare this two. The nerve of some people.
30 and 6 > 11 and 8

bogdanrom
07-27-2008, 01:36 PM
Your are forgetting someone.... Stephon Marbury!? Duhhh

Oh I'm sorry. How could I've forgotten Starbury. He is the best PG EVER. :D

_Sn1P3r_
07-27-2008, 03:28 PM
Haha this turned into 'Rate the NBA Point guards'.

Westbrook36
07-27-2008, 04:01 PM
SPAIN IS GONNA WIN THE GOLD AT THE OLYMPICSs...........USa think they the best in the world..BUT THEY NOT

:laugh: :laugh: iS SpIAn GoInG tO wIN? BuT tHEy NoT..Nice English and you can sure use the keys

spurhead
07-27-2008, 05:56 PM
im rooting and i know that team USA will win but ur wrong when u said that spain isnt good because spain did win the fiba championships

do u realyl think usa puts alot of effort in the fibas championship? LOL o wow

SAVAGE CLAW
07-27-2008, 09:26 PM
do u realyl think usa puts alot of effort in the fibas championship? LOL o wow

Already making up excuses just in case.....???

That is Pathetic man.

Come on go on and make a thread saying, there is no Kg and no Td , so if we fall is because we have not displayed our full talent.

Oh, i got it, a better one :

" It was a Communist country and the officiating was communist"....


Man up, you have 99% chances to win the gold.

But there is that 1% and it would be no matter how much effort they put into it.

Hellcrooner
07-28-2008, 03:06 AM
Already making up excuses just in case.....???

That is Pathetic man.

Come on go on and make a thread saying, there is no Kg and no Td , so if we fall is because we have not displayed our full talent.

Oh, i got it, a better one :

" It was a Communist country and the officiating was communist"....


Man up, you have 99% chances to win the gold.

But there is that 1% and it would be no matter how much effort they put into it.

DOnt talk to loud, they are winning this year and they will be exttremily petty about it.

Why?

well spain has beaten russia argentina and lithuania for more than 20 points in the last week

Is clear we are the only team capable of beating Usa.

but we just lost Pepu, the great leader of the world cup championship, and chemistry is broken, + pau is completely gone, he is in a bad phisical shape after the long season.

So we stand no chance.

pistonchamp159
07-28-2008, 03:59 AM
OK, well right off the bat
1. Pau Gasol - clearly the best player on the spainish team and one of the best European players to come to the Nba.
2. Jose Calderon - very underated point guard, but is starting to get his respect, with T.J Ford out of the picture in the 08-09 season he is gonna go off and the spanish team will just get him started.
3. Marc Gasol - Pau's brother, and frankly I dont know much about him, but I do know that if he is what everyone is saying about him, or even at all like his brother he is a definate star on their team.
4. Ricky Rubio - Anyone heard of him? probobly not but he is one of the best point guards in Spain and he is just 17! He will be the youngest player in to play in the Olympics in basketball.
5. Sergio Rodriguez - Don't know much about him but he is good enough to make an NBA team, well thats good enough...he might be big someday.
6. Juan Carlos Navarro -This guy is going to play soccer with FC Barcelona! Just wanted to point that out + he was a Memphis Grizzily this year (talented kid)

Well thats about all i KNow about there team... hope this helps

pauljames
07-28-2008, 04:15 AM
yep
do not even say calderon is a top 5 pg yet let him play as a starter
last year he even admitted he was better playing off the bench with tj as the starter
when he was the starter he had some trouble so well see wat happens.
either way these alot more pgs that are better than him
and dont say pau is a top 3 pf ll
more like top 10
duncan kg and dirk are better than him by alot lol

well jus see dwight blast pau everywhere its ok...
well see calderon get smashed by chris paul and deron williams its ok
well see the usa get gold and spain gettin nuthin ... boo whooo spain isnt good

Dont be ignorant. Jose didnt say he was better off the bench, he said TJ is better as a starter, so he sacrificed his starting job, by no means was calderon worse as a starter, actually very solid.

Mile High Champ
07-28-2008, 10:09 AM
Okay first of all Arenas is not the typical point guard, pass first. Jose is. I'm not bashing Jose. He is a very good point guard. But not top 5 maybe top 10. 8,9,10. Clam down. He averages 2 more assists than Arenas. Wow. That's a lot. Arenas averages 20 more points per game than Jose. And you mention defense. Since when is Jose Calderon a defender. I always see videos of him getting scored on ,dunked on, or on his butt. Not to mention even when he came of the bench he still played 30 minutes per game. I do agree that Arenas has a huge ego but that's what makes him play better. He's a weird dude but a better one than Calderon. Ask anyone in the league, who they fear more Arenas or Calderon, and everyone will tell you Arenas. The only reason he had such a good season last year was because nobody even heard of him before. I am sorry buddy but Arenas is better than Calderon anyday, everyday. I have no idea how you can even try to compare this two. The nerve of some people.
30 and 6 > 11 and 8

Well I did and its a quetsion at the nba Comp board. Looks like Calderon is winning 12-4. Calderon is the answer not arenas.

Er1c
07-28-2008, 10:16 AM
gasol is within top10

cal is more like within top 20

Mile High Champ
07-28-2008, 10:25 AM
gasol is within top10

cal is more like within top 20

haha top 20. name me the guys better than him. I know for me, I have maybe 7 guys that are better than him but thats it. Crazy if you think top 20... haha

Hellcrooner
07-28-2008, 12:11 PM
uh....navarro si not going to play soccer.... Barcelona has a sucesfull basketabll team too...

ink
07-28-2008, 12:20 PM
OK, well right off the bat
1. Pau Gasol - clearly the best player on the spainish team and one of the best European players to come to the Nba.
2. Jose Calderon - very underated point guard, but is starting to get his respect, with T.J Ford out of the picture in the 08-09 season he is gonna go off and the spanish team will just get him started.
3. Marc Gasol - Pau's brother, and frankly I dont know much about him, but I do know that if he is what everyone is saying about him, or even at all like his brother he is a definate star on their team.
4. Ricky Rubio - Anyone heard of him? probobly not but he is one of the best point guards in Spain and he is just 17! He will be the youngest player in to play in the Olympics in basketball.
5. Sergio Rodriguez - Don't know much about him but he is good enough to make an NBA team, well thats good enough...he might be big someday.
6. Juan Carlos Navarro -This guy is going to play soccer with FC Barcelona! Just wanted to point that out + he was a Memphis Grizzily this year (talented kid)

Well thats about all i KNow about there team... hope this helps


the spanish team will just get him started

QFT. Last time Jose really broke out was after playing for the Spanish team. My personal opinion is that he's learned very little from the Raptors, and made all of his progress after each World Championships playing for Spain.

and btw, Spanish posters, what's up with your athletes?? They're dominating. Nadal, Sastre ... amazing.

bogdanrom
07-28-2008, 01:18 PM
Well I did and its a quetsion at the nba Comp board. Looks like Calderon is winning 12-4. Calderon is the answer not arenas.

Haha. That's because you changed the question. Did you ask who was better? No. You asked who would you rather have on your team. Most teams need a point guard that can pass, so people choose Calderon. Even the people who voted for Calderon said that Arenas was the better player. Com' on it's over. Calderon in not top 5 PG in the game, he is a top 10. He's very skilled player, and a player that I would like on my Wizards team,but he is no better than Arenas, as a whole.

marvILLous
07-28-2008, 01:31 PM
yep
do not even say calderon is a top 5 pg yet let him play as a starter
last year he even admitted he was better playing off the bench with tj as the starter
when he was the starter he had some trouble so well see wat happens.
either way these alot more pgs that are better than him

:laugh: :laugh:

Mile High Champ
07-28-2008, 01:34 PM
Haha. That's because you changed the question. Did you ask who was better? No. You asked who would you rather have on your team. Most teams need a point guard that can pass, so people choose Calderon. Even the people who voted for Calderon said that Arenas was the better player. Com' on it's over. Calderon in not top 5 PG in the game, he is a top 10. He's very skilled player, and a player that I would like on my Wizards team,but he is no better than Arenas, as a whole.

He is better because of what he offers to any team. He offers more than arenas in every aspect of his game other than scoring. Thats it. Arenas is the most overated player in the game today..

bogdanrom
07-28-2008, 04:38 PM
He is better because of what he offers to any team. He offers more than arenas in every aspect of his game other than scoring. Thats it. Arenas is the most overated player in the game today..

Okay then let's break it down. Scoring Arenas is ten times better than Jose, it's not even close 30 ppg to 11 ppg , Jose has the passing 8apg to apg, rebounding Arenas gets the nod 5 rpg to 3rpg, FG% clearly Jose Calderon 52%to 44%. Now defending, both are pretty horrible but again to me at least I give the slight nod to Arenas, he at least gets steals. Arenas is the most overrated player in the game. Marbury, Rashard Lewis. Talking about overrated how about Jermaine O'Neal. Every player in the NBA has their faults, and Arenas's is to talk thrash. That's who he is. You can't say that he is worse than Calderon just because he talks a lot of *******. When he steps on the court he is one of the best in the NBA. If it wasn't for all his thrash talking he would be a superstar. I'm going to tell for the last time Calderon is NOT BETTER THAN Arenas. DAMN!!!:mad:

raptor25rs
07-28-2008, 05:28 PM
i think that arenas is a great scorer, but he isn't a true point guard, he's really a shooting guard that plays the point so he can have the ball in his hands all the time. Arenas scores 30 ppg but how many shot does he take compared to calderon. Calderon is by far a better point guard then arenas, and if calderon attempted more shots and pass the ball less, i think he could average those numbers too and at a higher %...Plus calderon is a team player..he knows his role and that is to distribute the ball

As for ranking, calderon is for sure a top 5-6 pg in the nba and the people who think he is not even in the top 10 is just retarted

And btw, i'm not hating on arenas, i think he's a talented player and a great scorer as a SG, cause that's what he is a SG

bball1217
07-28-2008, 05:30 PM
I mean if 14/10 #'s as a starter, and having one of the best if not the best A/T ratio's in the league does not put you in the mix with the already "best" in the league. I don't know whats to be expected.

Calderon did not average 14/10, he averaged 11/8, which is still good.
And for people saying he is better than Kidd, Kidd averages 10/10/7 (PPG,APG,RPG), so if he keeps that up than calderon is not better than him next year. However Calderon does have great shooting percentages, I think its like 50/40/90 (FG%,3PT%,FT%).

ink
07-28-2008, 05:35 PM
Okay then let's break it down. Scoring Arenas is ten times better than Jose, it's not even close 30 ppg to 11 ppg

You don't get off to a very good start. Arenas is not 10x better. He's only 3x better a scorer. And that's really all he has over Calderon. Scoring is NOT Calderon's role. He's a playmaker, a player whose value can't be measured completely by stats. A lot of NBA fans are scratching their heads about the Wizards resigning Arenas to a mega-contract when it was obvious it didn't hurt WA when Gilbert was out with an injury. Arenas isn't even the best player on his own team. Caron Butler is the best player on the team.

marvILLous
07-28-2008, 05:36 PM
Calderon did not average 14/10, he averaged 11/8, which is still good.
And for people saying he is better than Kidd, Kidd averages 10/10/7 (PPG,APG,RPG), so if he keeps that up than calderon is not better than him next year. However Calderon does have great shooting percentages, I think its like 50/40/90 (FG%,3PT%,FT%).

11/8 for the season but 14/10 as a starter

ink
07-28-2008, 05:38 PM
11/8 for the season but 14/10 as a starter

And that means that Agent O is really only twice as good as a scorer. Hardly ten times.

I'm reposting what I posted in the Comparisons thread ...


IMO the point is that Arenas has so many negatives it takes him out of the ranks of the really elite players. Calderon is one of my favourite players, but people are starting to overvalue him a bit this year. He's good in comparison with Arenas because of Gilbert's negatives. Calderon is an above average PG, but not yet elite in the L.

bogdanrom
07-28-2008, 06:22 PM
You don't get off to a very good start. Arenas is not 10x better. He's only 3x better a scorer. And that's really all he has over Calderon. Scoring is NOT Calderon's role. He's a playmaker, a player whose value can't be measured completely by stats. A lot of NBA fans are scratching their heads about the Wizards resigning Arenas to a mega-contract when it was obvious it didn't hurt WA when Gilbert was out with an injury. Arenas isn't even the best player on his own team. Caron Butler is the best player on the team.

When I said that he is ten times better on offense I was exagerating. Also I was not talking about PPG. He has way more ways to score. Calderon is a better passer. Calderon is a top 10 PG not top 5. Calderon is also older than Arenas. He is slowly becoming overrated, because of people who compare him and already name him the next Steve Nash. Calderon is a great player, and this leaguue, but if you asked any GM or owner or coach who was the better player, almost everyone will tell you that Gilbert is.

CHief_0_o_Wahoo
07-28-2008, 06:51 PM
Mo Williams is better then Calderon too..

SAVAGE CLAW
07-28-2008, 11:57 PM
Well ink, there was a HEAVY investment into sports to prepare for the 1992 olympics, the diverse federations have been employing the schemes ever since, and it seems success brings more success because kids say, hey i can do it, and just wait some more years and see, since Pau arrived to the League the number of kids playing basket is more than the double than Before.
Is true we are having a lot of success in this Decade and particulary this year.

We have Champions in Motorcycling, three straight wins at the Tour, this years Giro, Alonso two times f1 champion, World Championship in basketball, eurocup in soccer this year, and Nadal becoming #1 at tennis.

No too bad for a country which population is barely the same as California.

By the way , for people that were bragging about Usa beating Canada so bad.

Spain 103-Hungary45 how about that , Marc and Pau scored more than 50 points.

raptors_516
07-29-2008, 12:17 AM
its funny how this thread turned out to be calderon vs. arenas

ink
07-29-2008, 12:28 AM
Well ink, there was a HEAVY investment into sports to prepare for the 1992 olympics, the diverse federations have been employing the schemes ever since, and it seems success brings more success because kids say, hey i can do it, and just wait some more years and see, since Pau arrived to the League the number of kids playing basket is more than the double than Before.
Is true we are having a lot of success in this Decade and particulary this year.

We have Champions in Motorcycling, three straight wins at the Tour, this years Giro, Alonso two times f1 champion, World Championship in basketball, eurocup in soccer this year, and Nadal becoming #1 at tennis.

No too bad for a country which population is barely the same as California.

By the way , for people that were bragging about Usa beating Canada so bad.

Spain 103-Hungary45 how about that , Marc and Pau scored more than 50 points.

Seriously, I'm impressed by Spain's success. :clap:

CaughtInAHustle
07-29-2008, 01:54 AM
Calderon top 5 amongst Point Guards.

Not overall.

Steve Nash
Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Jason Kidd
Allen Iverson
Baron Davis
Gilbert Arenas
Tony Parker