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View Full Version : Pirates trade Nady and Marte



TheRedMarauder
07-25-2008, 08:28 PM
The Pirates will get Jose Tabata, Ross Ohlendorf and two other prospects from the Yankees for Xavier Nady and Damaso Marte, SI.com's Jon Heyman reports.

Pittsburgh came down off its initial price tag an awful long way then. Tabata still has very exciting potential and is incredibly young, but his wrist problem are scary and he's looking like a headcase. Ohlendorf has never been a good bet to develop into anything more than a sixth- and seventh-inning guy. Pitcher Phil Coke is also believed to be in the deal, and he's a true long shot to help.

rotoworld

Is that the best the Pirates could get? They should have fetched that for Nady alone.

NYMetros
07-25-2008, 08:30 PM
This is all the Pirates could get for Nady? Nady is having a phenomenal season. I was hoping to get a lot more than just some prospects.

GiantYankKnicks
07-25-2008, 08:43 PM
Tabata has big upside if he can get his head right.Good luck guys hope Tabata pans out 4 you

WSU Tony
07-25-2008, 08:49 PM
Who do you guys think will become the new closer for the Pirates? It doesn't seem like you guys have anyone with decent numbers till Capps comes back.

NYMetros
07-25-2008, 09:22 PM
Who do you guys think will become the new closer for the Pirates? It doesn't seem like you guys have anyone with decent numbers till Capps comes back.

I think it is going to be closer by committee at least until Capps comes back from his injury.

MG3
07-25-2008, 10:15 PM
typical Pittsburgh F'N Pirates move....let's ask for someone great and say that were not gonna back off and then guess what....they go against their word and trade their best hitter and best reliever for a few bats and a couple baseballs....in a word...PATHETIC

jmiller26
07-25-2008, 10:37 PM
you wanna hear a joke.............pirates management :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

Dent+Boonen'08
07-25-2008, 11:17 PM
Let me ask this question... what are the chances you were able to sign Marte and Nady next season because they are both free agents after this year? Every club knows this and as time ticks the offers were probably getting slimmer.

Tabata has a huge ceiling (as long he keeps his head on straight), and Coke is no joke (no rhyming intended). Ohlendorf is a decent long reliever and could be a number 5 or a 4 in the NL.

If you thought you were getting Hughes, or Bucholtz from Boston you were sadly mistaken... I think you did fairly well. Take a look at the Yankee forum on this quite a few people are bent out of shape that Tabata is gone.

Good luck.

kyubi256
07-25-2008, 11:55 PM
Tabata has almost identical potential to Fernando Martinez


would you take FMart for Nady and Marte?

PittBeatWV
07-26-2008, 12:13 AM
Let me ask this question... what are the chances you were able to sign Marte and Nady next season because they are both free agents after this year? Every club knows this and as time ticks the offers were probably getting slimmer.

Tabata has a huge ceiling (as long he keeps his head on straight), and Coke is no joke (no rhyming intended). Ohlendorf is a decent long reliever and could be a number 5 or a 4 in the NL.

If you thought you were getting Hughes, or Bucholtz from Boston you were sadly mistaken... I think you did fairly well. Take a look at the Yankee forum on this quite a few people are bent out of shape that Tabata is gone.

Good luck.

Actually, Nady has another year left on his deal for peanuts basically... not sure about Marte. Tabata has a huge ceiling... of course he does because when you're battin .244 in AA ball, there is no where to go but up!

New management, same old story... The Pittsburgh Pirates, AAA franchise of the New York Yankees, Boston Red Sox, Chicago Cubs... basically any team not called the Marlins

Baseball has always been my first love, but it's becoming a chore now... I hate this.

BigDaddyKaine
07-26-2008, 05:15 AM
you wanna hear a joke.............pirates management :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

wanna hear an even bigger joke......... Dodgers owner(**** you McCourt):(:mad::cry:

anyways the Pirates got jobbed in this deal the got completely F***d

Teixeira25
07-26-2008, 05:48 AM
I feel like the Yankees got the better end of the deal, unless Coke & Tabata make it to the Pro's by next year.

Webslinger
07-26-2008, 06:18 AM
Guys you got one of the yankees top prospects for frickin Xavier Nady for chrissakes. Count your stars. As for Marte he's just a lefty specialist. As you can see no one was dumb enough to give you anything of real value for him. But with that said the yankees still gave up 3 pitchers. One of which is only 23 and doing quite well in AA. I'd be willing to bet if you package him and Tabata together you'd get an even better deal from another team.

MG3
07-26-2008, 07:46 AM
Why does everyone think Nady is a joke? He should've started in the all-star game if he was healthy all year...he's average is around .330 and we didn't have to trade either players at this point....no pirate fan was expecting hughes in this deal...perhaps ian kennedy or maybe not trading them to the yankees...the bucs had a serious chance of breaking the streak of losing seasons but now...no chance

cre0530
07-26-2008, 09:10 AM
Tabata has big upside if he can get his head right.Good luck guys hope Tabata pans out 4 you

Upside? .244 avg in AA? Maturity issues? Sounds like the yanks dumped a headache to me. The Pirates already has a far superior prospects in the outfield. Pierce and Mcutchen. Why add depth to the minors in areas of strength instead of the areas of need?

NYMetros
07-26-2008, 10:26 AM
I really don't understand this trade. We get an OF'er struggling in AA, injury prone, and apparently being a headache for the team, and we get a sinker ball pitcher who will only be a #3 or #4 at best. I really hope the Pirates management sees something in this deal that I do not.

We need pitching. Not another OF'er. Hopefully the Pirates could trade this new prospect away for a pitching prospect. I doubt that will happen though.

Cheesyhoboe
07-26-2008, 10:27 AM
Upside? .244 avg in AA? Maturity issues? Sounds like the yanks dumped a headache to me. The Pirates already has a far superior prospects in the outfield. Pierce and Mcutchen. Why add depth to the minors in areas of strength instead of the areas of need?

Tabata is a boom or bust prospect at this point

He's either going to be an all-star who will win batting titles at the MLB level with 20-30 HR power or he's going to be nothing. You guys took a risk with this trade, we'll see what happens.

NYMetros
07-26-2008, 10:31 AM
Tabata is a boom or bust prospect at this point

He's either going to be an all-star who will win batting titles at the MLB level with 20-30 HR power or he's going to be nothing. You guys took a risk with this trade, we'll see what happens.

We already have a ton of OF prospects in the minors, as well as 2 young, very good OF'ers at the major league level in Nate McLouth (26) and Jason Bay (29).

The OF for us is pretty jam packed at this point, and that is why I don't understand this trade at all for the Pirates. We should have taken the Yankees' best pitching prospect, rather than one of their best position playing prospects.

Cheesyhoboe
07-26-2008, 10:40 AM
We already have a ton of OF prospects in the minors, as well as 2 young, very good OF'ers at the major league level in Nate McLouth (26) and Jason Bay (29).

The OF for us is pretty jam packed at this point, and that is why I don't understand this trade at all for the Pirates. We should have taken the Yankees' best pitching prospect, rather than one of their best position playing prospects.

Tabata was considered to be a special talent a year ago, they might see something truly special in him, otherwise I don't see why they would've made the trade. And you got 3 pitchers all who have a decent shot to help you out on the major league level. I think it's more likely the Yanks won this trade than not, but if Tabata ever turns into what he's projected for, that's not just a young, very good OFer... that's Manny Ramirez.

Cheesyhoboe
07-26-2008, 11:22 AM
Ugh, well the two other prospects in the trade are no longer Kontos and Coke... you got Karstens and McCutchen. McCutchen can be a good #4 or #5 starter right now, it sucks we lost him, but there's your immediate impact at the major league level.

sep11ie
07-26-2008, 11:37 AM
Who do you guys think will become the new closer for the Pirates? It doesn't seem like you guys have anyone with decent numbers till Capps comes back.
\
Does it matter? We don't even wanna win games. I have an idea, lets try getting some players instead of GIVING the play off teams everybody. It's getting very hard to stomach this team anymore. PISSED OFF HERE!

NYMetros
07-26-2008, 11:59 AM
According to the New York Post, the Pirates will be getting Daniel McCutchen and Jeff Karstens along with Jose Tabata and Ross Ohlendorf from the Yankees for Xavier Nady and Damaso Marte.

It was widely reported last night (including by the Post itself) that George Kontos and Phil Coke were in the deal in place of McCutchen and Karstens. This is clearly better for the Pirates. McCutchen is arguably the Yankees' best remaining pitching prospect, though he's not a big upside guy and he doesn't rank with Phil Hughes or Ian Kennedy. Karstens isn't much more than middle relief fodder, but neither was Coke.

rotoworld

I like this deal a lot more for us now.

TheRedMarauder
07-26-2008, 12:43 PM
At least with the addition of those 2 now the deal looks better for the Pirates.

nyyfan4life
07-27-2008, 03:35 AM
At least with the addition of those 2 now the deal looks better for the Pirates.

Karstens blows and Cutch has a fairly limited ceiling as well. Kontos could have become a good pitcher and Coke could have become a dominant lefty set-up man. The Yanks and us (the fans especially those that follow the farm very closely) will tell you that this was much better for the Yanks and most are now calling it a heist. While Tabata was hard to let go off, he did have many problems mentally, emotionally along with a crap attitude and horrid work ethic. He was compared to Manny early on, but to me now he is at best looking more like a Bobby Abreu type of player.

jmiller26
07-27-2008, 01:00 PM
I'll take bobby abreau for nady and marte any day :D

TheRedMarauder
07-28-2008, 02:26 PM
Jeff Karstens will join the Pirates' rotation with a start either Friday or Saturday against the Cubs.

Karstens came to the Pirates in the weekend deal for Xavier Nady and Damaso Marte, and he'll replace John Van Benschoten in the rotation. He projects as a decent back-of-the-rotation starter in the NL.

rotoworld

NYMetros
07-28-2008, 04:07 PM
Karstens blows and Cutch has a fairly limited ceiling as well. Kontos could have become a good pitcher and Coke could have become a dominant lefty set-up man. The Yanks and us (the fans especially those that follow the farm very closely) will tell you that this was much better for the Yanks and most are now calling it a heist. While Tabata was hard to let go off, he did have many problems mentally, emotionally along with a crap attitude and horrid work ethic. He was compared to Manny early on, but to me now he is at best looking more like a Bobby Abreu type of player.

I'll wait and see how these players perform over the years before I call this trade a "heist." As of right now, I'm fairly pleased with what we got in return, and so is the Pirates FO. The Yankees' FO is happy. Both sides win.

It wasn't like we needed Nady for a pennant race or anything either, so we might as well get all the young prospects we can get for him.

trade108
07-28-2008, 05:45 PM
If your a Pirates fan you have to defend this trade. You have no choice. lol You gave up a lefty specialist that is due atleast 6 mil in arbitration and Nadey who has one more year left on a weak contract and got back a couple of pitching prospects that are very weak. and Tabat is a head case. He left a game mid game.......MID GAME...... and went home and they asked him "why did you leave" and he says "im not sure i can handle the pressure of being in the big leagues"...... Oh yeah. Real big upside. Im just waiting for You guys to trade away Mclouth for some magic beans and a bridge in Brooklyn.

PittPanthers
07-28-2008, 09:44 PM
The bottom line is that the Pirates in all likelihood should have waited at least a few more days to pull the trigger on this deal. At the time, there was almost a week left till the deadline - why make a mediocre deal with that much time left...especially when they had two of the most coveted guys in free agency?

I do have to say I feel a little better about this deal with McCutchen and Karstens. Bottom line is they needed to get pitchers that were ready to come up to the majors soon. Karstens will probably pitch within the next week and Ohlendorf won't be far behind (although who knows what they'll actually do). McCutchen is seemingly a better piece than Coke or Kontos (though I've seen some arguments for Kontos).

Am I thrilled with this deal? No. Especially when the best prospect we got out of it is an OUTFIELDER. The Pirates needed a top pitching prospect. I'm not saying we're stocked with outfielders, but with McClouth and Bay, you've got two All-Star caliber guys. You've got to figure that next year, Pearce or McCutchen will be able to cover that third spot and you've still got one guy left over. Throw in Tabata and if Bay is signed, you've got five potential starters in two years when Tabata is hopefully MLB ready.

The pitching is really shallow with Snell and Gorzelanny being question marks at this point. Maholm is really the only guy they've got of quality...and who knows what he'll do next year. Duke and Dumatrait have been fair, but again, with the ups and downs of Pirates pitching, who knows what to expect from year to year?

Marte wasn't going to be back - true, they could have gotten the compensatory picks for him, but then you're waiting another few years for them to develop at best. So if you figure they got two decent pitching prospects for him, that's not bad. You figure Tabata and a pitcher for Nady. To me, Nady seems to be coming into his own, but the Pirates probably couldn't afford him after next year. He had more value now as the Yankees can pick up his option at a tidy $6 mil next year.

Again, to me, to make this a better trade, the Pirates needed to get a top pitching prospect. Heck, Tabata is no guarantee to be a star....none of those guys are. To me, with Nady AND Marte on the table (and knowing the Yankees were desperate with Posada out) they had to DEMAND Kennedy be in the deal. If the Yankees say no, then I'd hold onto Nady for another year, trade him in the Summer and take the picks for Marte. But even though I would have rather seen them get a top prospect, this deal is far from the worst they've made (i.e. Aramis Ramirez).

I guess I'm complaining, but not too loudly. It's just disappointing to think that instead of getting one 'can't miss' guy, we ended up getting one 'shouldn't-miss' and three question marks.

PittPanthers
07-28-2008, 09:50 PM
Tabata is a boom or bust prospect at this point

He's either going to be an all-star who will win batting titles at the MLB level with 20-30 HR power or he's going to be nothing. You guys took a risk with this trade, we'll see what happens.

I wouldn't exactly call him a 'boom or bust yet' - the guy's only 20. A lot of guys only get drafted out of college at 22 or 23. He had a very good year in A ball at only 19 and yes he's slumped this year, but he was injured and the move to AA is usually a big step up. The trade was definitely a risk, but he's at least 3-4 years away from being a total bust...and even then, because of his track record, teams would probably still take a chance on him because of his age.

b-intellect
07-30-2008, 05:48 PM
Hey guys, for anybody interested and who doesn't know much about the guys you traded, the article linked below will help fill you in:

Prospect Scouting Reports (http://www.baseball-intellect.com/Articles/jose-tabata-pirates-trade.html)

The article uses video of Tabata, McCutchen, and Ohlendorf and is more of a mechanically-based review.

NESports2004
08-01-2008, 04:47 PM
hey maybe the Pirates didnt get completely raped in this trade Karstend stepped up today AGAINST THE CUBS to wow!!