PDA

View Full Version : Breaking News: Marte and Nady traded to Yanks.



torontosports10
07-25-2008, 07:57 PM
Check SI.com

Buckwheat
07-25-2008, 07:59 PM
Bleh

lincecum=future
07-25-2008, 08:01 PM
NEW YORK -- According to SI.com's Jon Heyman, the Yankees have acquired outfielder Xavier Nady and reliever Damaso Marte from the Pirates for Jose Tabata, Ross Ohlendorf and two other minor league prospects.

While the trade has been agreed upon, according to Heyman, nothing will become official until all six players have been granted medical clearance

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/07/25/pirates.yanks.trade/index.html

Buckwheat
07-25-2008, 08:03 PM
I remember Yankee fans saying last year in the "Player to start a franchise with" thread that Tabata was the best player to start with :laugh2:

Chapin78
07-25-2008, 08:04 PM
I didn't want to see Tabata go in any deal. I was curious as to what he could do for us in the future but you get to give up something to get something. How is the lineup going to look???

hanleymvp
07-25-2008, 08:04 PM
you do realize i made a thread already. can somebody just cvhange the name

jetsfan28
07-25-2008, 08:04 PM
That is a steep, steep price, and this is coming from someone who loves X and thinks he'll be a great addition, they gave up too much

iam brett favre
07-25-2008, 08:05 PM
I'm very happy with this trade.

PhillyUD26
07-25-2008, 08:05 PM
I know nothing about Yankees prospects...other than Kennedy blows

lincecum=future
07-25-2008, 08:06 PM
Austin Jackson surpassed Tabata as the best position player the Yanks have. I think this is a good deal for both teams.

Westbrook36
07-25-2008, 08:07 PM
Too much for him

iam brett favre
07-25-2008, 08:10 PM
I know nothing about Yankees prospects...other than Kennedy blows

Yeah people are going to say we gave up too much.. but I know I want to win now, who cares about Tabata?

hanleymvp
07-25-2008, 08:11 PM
the yankees didnt give up to much because they can just buy other players when the time comes.

H-MYK
07-25-2008, 08:12 PM
I've heard of Nady when he was with the Mets and I'm pretty sure that he played for the Padres at one point, but haven't heard of Marte.

Ron_Mexico
07-25-2008, 08:14 PM
Nady and Marte are both decent. They needed the bullpen help and with all of their injuries Nady will be able to make a difference for them right away.

JHG722
07-25-2008, 08:14 PM
Damn, I love Nady, and he has to go to the Yankees :(

GrkGawdofWalkz
07-25-2008, 08:16 PM
Nady isn't worth that, but w/e. Saves us over paying to get Marte.

EAGLES3658
07-25-2008, 08:17 PM
this trade sucks we gave up tabata and theres noway nady stays at .330 in the al

mantlefan07
07-25-2008, 08:17 PM
I know nothing about Yankees prospects...other than Kennedy blows

LOL! Dick Head!

I'd be stoked if this is all true! Wow!

EAGLES3658
07-25-2008, 08:18 PM
well at least we still got a-jax

KmB728
07-25-2008, 08:18 PM
There goes the Sox chances of getting Marte

EAGLES3658
07-25-2008, 08:18 PM
LOL! Dick Head!

I'd be stoked if this is all true! Wow!

its true

EAGLES3658
07-25-2008, 08:19 PM
phil coke was also included in it

hanleymvp
07-25-2008, 08:19 PM
this trade sucks we gave up tabata and theres noway nady stays at .330 in the al

wtf are you talking about. i hate when people say this guy is only good in the nl. there isnt as much of a difference in the al.

bleedpinstripes
07-25-2008, 08:19 PM
this trade sucks we gave up tabata and theres noway nady stays at .330 in the al

pitchers have a rough transition coming to the AL...what makes you think it will effect Nady?

And people are down playing Marte, he is one of the best lefty relievers out there:confused:surprised a lot of you have said you haven't heard of him.

Seamhead
07-25-2008, 08:20 PM
So the Yankees gave up one of their best prospects (#3 last year according to baseball america) and in baseball (Keith Law had him at #21 and Baseball Prospectus had him at #48) for platoon player and a middle reliever?

:laugh:

C-ross12
07-25-2008, 08:21 PM
hmm i figured Tabata was a player you packaged to get someone like Adam Dunn..

bleedpinstripes
07-25-2008, 08:23 PM
sucks losing Tabata but I'm more excited about Jackson anyway. I like this trade a lot, bullpen arm (great one at that) and a righty bat...just what we were needing.

JHG722
07-25-2008, 08:23 PM
So the Yankees gave up one of their best prospects (#3 last year according to baseball america) and in baseball (Keith Law had him at #21 and Baseball Prospectus had him at #48) for platoon player and a middle reliever?

:laugh:

Platoon player?

mantlefan07
07-25-2008, 08:24 PM
its true

Michael Kay on YES network keeps saying how the Yanks aren't confirming anything so he's making me wonder.

bleedpinstripes
07-25-2008, 08:24 PM
Platoon player?

He's a ****ing hater bro...can't offer an objective opinion when related to the yankees like many in here

PhillyUD26
07-25-2008, 08:24 PM
Platoon player?

Haha exactly what I was thinking??? :confused:

JHG722
07-25-2008, 08:25 PM
He's a ****ing hater bro...can't offer an objective opinion when related to the yankees like many in here

Well I hate the Yankees so much, I'd love to say something about this trade, but Nady is money.

PhillyLuver
07-25-2008, 08:26 PM
Even trade imo, Nady and Marte will help them a good deal. Tabata should be good as well

NY MeTro StAr
07-25-2008, 08:26 PM
Nady>Tabata

He was gr8 for the Mets when he was here, and Im sure i speak for many Mets fans when I say I was pissed when they traded him, even if it was for Ollie. The Yanks got a good outfielder, but what happens when Godzilla and Posada come back? DH? He can play defense too, and has 1000000x the arm of Damon.

Seamhead
07-25-2008, 08:27 PM
Platoon player?

Yeah, the Yankees sure as hell better have him as a platoon player because he has no value against RHPs:

.268/.314/.447 (.760 OPS)

And please don't let yourself succumb to small sample sizes by bringing up his numbers this season.

JHG722
07-25-2008, 08:28 PM
Yeah, the Yankees sure as hell better have him as a platoon player because he has no value against RHPs:

.268/.314/.447 (.760 OPS)

And please don't let yourself succumb to small sample sizes by bringing up his numbers this season.

I dont care what you say, Nady is a bit better than a platoon player...

jrod2978
07-25-2008, 08:32 PM
all i know is that the yankees traded tabata (sad - but jackson is better)

olhendorf (who gives a **** he is terrible)

coke who i dont know but i heard hes pretty good.....and kompos or something who is avg

This is a great trade! Tabata was defintely going to be a bust in my opinion and the yanks still kept betances and they will be fine...wonderful!!!!

Seamhead
07-25-2008, 08:33 PM
I dont care what you say, Nady is a bit better than a platoon player...

He's the definition of a platoon player. A guy who can hit a certain handedness, but can't hit the other.

If you want to look at his totals, he's been practically an average hitter throughout his career, with alright defense. So yeah, he should be a platoon player.

badkins1121
07-25-2008, 08:35 PM
Michael Kay on YES network keeps saying how the Yanks aren't confirming anything so he's making me wonder.

Well PIT took Nady out of the game in the top of the second so i am assuming its true.

hanleymvp
07-25-2008, 08:35 PM
Yeah, the Yankees sure as hell better have him as a platoon player because he has no value against RHPs:

.268/.314/.447 (.760 OPS)

And please don't let yourself succumb to small sample sizes by bringing up his numbers this season.

A platoon player The guy has produced with playing time every year. There is a reason guys like him are traded at the deadline. He isnt a star but he is a solid player and can bring stability to a position in question. And the Yankees just need some consistent production.

slugfest504
07-25-2008, 08:38 PM
Um does anybody notice the hole part where the yankees still have Jackson. Then there is FA. Then there is that hole thing where Marte is supposed to me Type A in 2 years. And Nady is Definetly type B, maybe Type A. The Yankees could get 4 1st round picks out of this. Plus Tapada iss 3 years away anyway, he isnt a sure thing, he is only 18. How many good Left handed rp are out there these days. He could easily be a bust people. Yankees get Nady over Gardner, and Marte over crap (Ross Ohlendorf). And possible 4 1st round picks from compensation, for well nothing, the other 2 guys arent much.

Seamhead
07-25-2008, 08:39 PM
A platoon player The guy has produced with playing time every year. There is a reason guys like him are traded at the deadline. He isnt a star but he is a solid player and can bring stability to a position in question. And the Yankees just need some consistent production.

Consistent production? Why do people keep using that word? What is this, Baseball Tonight?

Nady is a platoon player, or at least should be. He can hit the **** out of left handed hitting, but he can't hit righties.

I'm willing to bet that if Nady had not gotten off to this start, which is just a product of a smallish sample size, and played to his true talent level, which is more or less an average hitter, then none of you would be praising this trade.

sacgiants1213
07-25-2008, 08:40 PM
both teams aren't gonna confirm it until all the medical stuff is done. it's just as good as done.

Tragedy
07-25-2008, 08:42 PM
I'm a little surprised that the Yankees went ahead and traded Tabata. This is one of those "Win now moves" that the Yankees have wanted to stay away from doing the last two years or so. I personally don't like the move for the Yankees, but in a "win now" standpoint, they clearly got themselves two quality players.

PhillyUD26
07-25-2008, 08:43 PM
Consistent production? Why do people keep using that word? What is this, Baseball Tonight?

Nady is a platoon player, or at least should be. He can hit the **** out of left handed hitting, but he can't hit righties.

I'm willing to bet that if Nady had not gotten off to this start, which is just a product of a smallish sample size, and played to his true talent level, which is more or less an average hitter, then none of you would be praising this trade.

Nobody is praising this trade, they are arguing against Nady being a platoon player. Almost every player worse stats against pitchers with the same handiness as them, that doesn't mean that every player is a platoon player. Nady actually has a higher average against righties this year (.335 vs .313), and a decent OBP (.368) against righties. To call him a platoon player is a little much.

hanleymvp
07-25-2008, 08:44 PM
Consistent production? Why do people keep using that word? What is this, Baseball Tonight?

Nady is a platoon player, or at least should be. He can hit the **** out of left handed hitting, but he can't hit righties.

I'm willing to bet that if Nady had not gotten off to this start, which is just a product of a smallish sample size, and played to his true talent level, which is more or less an average hitter, then none of you would be praising this trade.

Dude, you have to base it on this year, it's 2008, he has been hitting over 300 for both righties and lefties. The guy is in his prime and the guy is anything but a platoon player.

NY MeTro StAr
07-25-2008, 08:49 PM
Pirates are now 2-3 years from being a dangerous team, more top end prospects. When they figure out whats wrong with Gorzelanny and Duke, watch out.

grizz8884
07-25-2008, 08:53 PM
Pirates are now 2-3 years from being a dangerous team, more top end prospects. When they figure out whats wrong with Gorzelanny and Duke, watch out.

Agreed, now they can finally start to fill out that beautiful stadium of theirs consistently.

PhillyUD26
07-25-2008, 08:54 PM
Pirates are now 2-3 years from being a dangerous team, more top end prospects. When they figure out whats wrong with Gorzelanny and Duke, watch out.

And Wieters coming through the system....oh wait

Seamhead
07-25-2008, 08:55 PM
Nobody is praising this trade, they are arguing against Nady being a platoon player. Almost every player worse stats against pitchers with the same handiness as them, that doesn't mean that every player is a platoon player. Nady actually has a higher average against righties this year (.335 vs .313), and a decent OBP (.368) against righties. To call him a platoon player is a little much.

That is for this season, dude. Maybe he isn't a platoon player, but most of his offensive value comes from the left side.

Even so, he has never been much more than an average hitter throughout his career.


Dude, you have to base it on this year, it's 2008, he has been hitting over 300 for both righties and lefties. The guy is in his prime and the guy is anything but a platoon player.

We're looking at true talent, not what he has done in 2008. I've said this 20 times today -- this season is not an indicator of his true talent because of the sample size. The guy has been an average hitter, then all of a suddenly he's a great hitter? HAHAHAH. In his prime? The guy is starting to leave his prime at age 29, not enter it.



** This is what happens when we deal with sample sizes and players overachieving. You have people overrate players like Nady. Soon, he'll be regressing to his mean **

jrod2978
07-25-2008, 08:56 PM
are ppl seriously doubting this trade? Let me explain how this helps our chances

Nady provides pop and seriously he is not a platoon player its ridiculous to say that, and will do even better power wise in NYY

Marte is our only lefty reliever and he is damn good at it

Tabata could be a bust he is in double A and not even hitting well and he gets injured all the time
Ohlendorf sucks
Coke is good but in double A so who knows
Kontos is like 26 (or did i mix up the age between coke and him?)

I think jackson is better then tabata and we dont have to worry about young hitting

YankeeFan28
07-25-2008, 08:58 PM
terrible trade. i think the Yankees could've included Tabata in a deal for a better player. Nady is having 1 good season, otherwise he hasn't proved anything.

Tragedy
07-25-2008, 08:59 PM
terrible trade. i think the Yankees could've included Tabata in a deal for a better player. Nady is having 1 good season, otherwise he hasn't proved anything.
Thank you. :clap:

Can we just close the thread with this as the final comment?!

Seamhead
07-25-2008, 09:00 PM
Thank you. :clap:

Can we just close the thread with this as the final comment?!

Yes.

In_Ned_I_Trust
07-25-2008, 09:00 PM
I think it was a great trade Nady very easily could have been an all star and everyone under the sun wanted Marte.

Jonathan2323
07-25-2008, 09:01 PM
Great for the Yankees:clap::clap::clap:

NY MeTro StAr
07-25-2008, 09:02 PM
Seamhead, I don't like agreeing with Philly fans, but Nady is a solid hitter and outfielder. Ask any Met or Pirates fan, he can hit a curve far away and does a good job of going the other way. Combined with the short porch in right, Nady will have a few HR's that way. Even if Nady doesn't play the outfield well, he will be an above average DH with power and decent speed. Tabata may be the best player in the deal, but :puke: this is a solid move by the Yanks. On the bright side, Marte does not go to Boston :clap::clap::clap:

Buckwheat
07-25-2008, 09:03 PM
Thank you. :clap:

Can we just close the thread with this as the final comment?!


Great for the Yankees:clap::clap::clap:


Seamhead, I don't like agreeing with Philly fans, but Nady is a solid hitter and outfielder. Ask any Met or Pirates fan, he can hit a curve far away and does a good job of going the other way. Combined with the short porch in right, Nady will have a few HR's that way. Even if Nady doesn't play the outfield well, he will be an above average DH with power and decent speed. Tabata may be the best player in the deal, but :puke: this is a solid move by the Yanks. On the bright side, Marte does not go to Boston :clap::clap::clap:

:clap::clap::clap:

bleedpinstripes
07-25-2008, 09:04 PM
my buddies in Beantown were praying for Marte...TFB

jrod2978
07-25-2008, 09:06 PM
you guys are rly ****ing ignorant and im surprised by YF28.

Let me ask you something about tabata ok? please answer the following

What minor league system is he in (what level)
What is his batting avg
How many hrs?
How many injuries has he had in his short career?

Buckwheat
07-25-2008, 09:07 PM
you guys are rly ****ing ignorant and im surprised by YF28.

Let me ask you something about tabata ok? please answer the following

What minor league system is he in (what level)
What is his batting avg
How many hrs?
How many injuries has he had in his short career?

Yeah, because those really matter more than anything.

bleedpinstripes
07-25-2008, 09:09 PM
convenient how I've heard people mention how the yankees have no good position players in our farm and now we trade Tabata (was our 2nd best OF prospect) and the guy turns into a stud.

Don't get me wrong I was excited about Tabata, but prospects are suspects and everything we were going on with Tabata was 100% potential, he showed no real signs of putting it together (yet).

JHG722
07-25-2008, 09:14 PM
convenient how I've heard people mention how the yankees have no good position players in our farm and now we trade Tabata (was our 2nd best OF prospect) and the guy turns into a stud.

Conversely, how Tabata was a stud, and now he's not that good, can't do this, can't do that :p;)

Two way street, my friend.

GiantYankKnicks
07-25-2008, 09:16 PM
Austin Jackson>Tabata.I like the deal.

Seamhead
07-25-2008, 09:26 PM
Seamhead, I don't like agreeing with Philly fans, but Nady is a solid hitter and outfielder. Ask any Met or Pirates fan, he can hit a curve far away and does a good job of going the other way. Combined with the short porch in right, Nady will have a few HR's that way. Even if Nady doesn't play the outfield well, he will be an above average DH with power and decent speed. Tabata may be the best player in the deal, but :puke: this is a solid move by the Yanks. On the bright side, Marte does not go to Boston :clap::clap::clap:

Given his true talent level right now, Nady is projected a .813 OPS for the rest of the season this nifty tool (http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/is-this-guy-for-real/).

These have been Nady's park adjusted wOBAs the past 3 seasons:

2007: .347
2006: .328
2005: .347

Weighing each one appropriately (2007 as 72, 2006 as 57, and 2005 as 46), Nady was coming into the season as a true talent .340 wOBA hitter. The average wOBA, you ask (same as OBP) -- it's .338.

I'll take it one step further and convert that into wins above replacement. Given his true talent wOBA, Nady is worth .173 wins above average with the bat. I gave him .5 above average defensively, and I'm probably being generous there. He gets +1.5 wins for being an NL RF.

So we have: .173 + .5 + 1.5 and we multiply by playing time. Nady has played about 65% of what a full time regular would have, which is 700 PA. So his WAR is:

(.173 + .5 + 1.5) * .65

Coming into this season, Nady was 1.6 WAR player. The average MLB is worth 2 WAR.

jrod2978
07-25-2008, 09:35 PM
where is YF28?

I want to see his repsponse...

SticklerOfRules
07-25-2008, 09:40 PM
this trade sucks we gave up tabata and theres noway nady stays at .330 in the al

He isn't staying at .330 even in his dreams let alone the AL or NL

NY MeTro StAr
07-25-2008, 09:42 PM
I would expect a low OBP for a player that is a free swinger with power, as the X-Man is (Gary Cohen, not me, but im wit it). Having a batting average of .330 is high for Nady, he's a .275 hitter IMO. But he is solid and that avg is good for anyone.

On the non-statistical side of things, it will be nice to hear Xzibit in Yankee Stadium. ("X" was his theme song, dunno if it is now)

nyyfan4life
07-25-2008, 10:03 PM
I'm on the fence with this trade. I like that we got Nady and Marte who both will help us with our play-off push for this year but I hate that we traded away Tabata. Tabata is a 19 year old OF with advanced hitting ability. He was a bit overmatched at AA but was starting to turn it around before getting hurt for the rest of the year. Coke is a decent LHP for our AA team but the fact is that the kid at 26 years old already didn't have much of a future with the Yanks. Ohlendorf was a nice developmental bullpen arm but his mechanics weren't overly clean and he didn't have much command of his pitches despite having above average stuff. I don't like that we gave up Kontos. I always liked him. He had good stuff but not great stuff and was buried behind many other starters in the system. He does have a future, IMO, as a big league starter. On the other side Nady will help us in the OF. He will be the primary LF this year now since Damon will take over at DH with both Posada and Matsui probably out for the year. Nady will give us solid defense and a good right-handed bat that we sorely need seeing how pathetic we are against LHP. He will liely take over in RF next year for Abreu when he leaves. Marte is a good lefty reliever. We don't have a lefty bullpen arm currently on the team so Marte will be a welcome addition and we can finally DFA Hawkins. Also this off-season we can let Marte go and get a pick or two when he signs elsewhere. Overall its probably a solid trade for both teams although at first I didn't like it much at all.

Now with this I think we might see Brett Gardner in a deal for a starter. I don't think that the Yanks are done making moves yet...

Also just for your info both Austin Jackson and Jesus Montero have surpassed Tabata as the best offensive players in our system.

Sick Of It All
07-25-2008, 10:10 PM
I'm a little surprised that the Yankees went ahead and traded Tabata. This is one of those "Win now moves" that the Yankees have wanted to stay away from doing the last two years or so. I personally don't like the move for the Yankees, but in a "win now" standpoint, they clearly got themselves two quality players.

The Yankees always do a win now move even if they say that they would stay away from it, yet they alsways do one of those moves like paying Clemens 20+ million to come back.

...but they kept their best prospects and Tabata has had some issues of late. This trade benefits the Yanks, maybe in 5 years if Tabata turns out to be great they will regret it.

BigDaddyKaine
07-25-2008, 10:10 PM
wtf are you talking about. i hate when people say this guy is only good in the nl. there isnt as much of a difference in the al.

the NL has better pitching and Nady played in the best division in baseball to the NL Central very close with the Al East

BigDaddyKaine
07-25-2008, 10:12 PM
pitchers have a rough transition coming to the AL...what makes you think it will effect Nady?

And people are down playing Marte, he is one of the best lefty relievers out there:confused:surprised a lot of you have said you haven't heard of him.

Agree Marte is good... Yankees got a very good deal

NYC1213
07-25-2008, 10:20 PM
way 2 much for mediocracy im not big for nady bein in our outfield for a while irather pakaged these guys for holiday and fuentes

nyyfan4life
07-25-2008, 10:22 PM
Holliday is just solid outside of Coors. Also the Rockies wanted guys like Kennedy, Buchholz etc.. just for Fuentes. Way too much to give up. With this move the Yanks still retain most of their top prospects and other trading chips as well.

JHG722
07-25-2008, 10:33 PM
way 2 much for mediocracy im not big for nady bein in our outfield for a while irather pakaged these guys for holiday and fuentes

Mediocrity?

CubsRule08
07-25-2008, 10:52 PM
way 2 much for mediocracy im not big for nady bein in our outfield for a while irather pakaged these guys for holiday and fuentes

There is no chance you guys get Holliday and Fuentes for the package you gave Pittsburgh...Colorado will ask for Kennedy and probably Jackson plus others for both of them

nyyfan4life
07-25-2008, 11:12 PM
There is no chance you guys get Holliday and Fuentes for the package you gave Pittsburgh...Colorado will ask for Kennedy and probably Jackson plus others for both of them

Exactly. No need to destroy the farm for just 2 players.

CubsRule08
07-25-2008, 11:30 PM
Exactly. No need to destroy the farm for just 2 players.

Exactly

Cheesyhoboe
07-25-2008, 11:55 PM
Tabata is nowhere near the prospect he was pre-season. There's a good chance he might not even be as good as Nady at this point. BP said his swing looked terrible this year, that he has attittude problems and that his power potential is looking worse than ever.

L-MiLLZ44
07-26-2008, 12:12 AM
i really think the yankees got a great deal ..... marte is an awesome addition to anyone's bullpen especially a bullpen like the yankees who don't have a lefty reliever, plus they get a solid all around player like nady for what? jose tabata who is very young but who knows what he's gonna be and ross ohlendorf ... ohlendorf is garbage, i say it was a great deal for the yankees

ShinobiNYC
07-26-2008, 12:20 AM
I'm more upset about Phil Coke than Tabata imo, great deal though.

nyyfan4life
07-26-2008, 12:25 AM
I'm more upset about Phil Coke than Tabata imo, great deal though.

I'm more upset with Kontos than Coke. Giving up Tabata was disappointing but you gotta give something in order to get something.

L-MiLLZ44
07-26-2008, 12:31 AM
I'm more upset with Kontos than Coke. Giving up Tabata was disappointing but you gotta give something in order to get something.

yea you guys sured up your bullpen and got a great righty bat, this is a deal that puts you over the edge when it comes with competing for the playoffs, there will be october baseball in the bronx this year

iam brett favre
07-26-2008, 12:39 AM
All you other AL hopefulls can kiss your wild card dreams goodbye now.

ShinobiNYC
07-26-2008, 12:40 AM
I'm more upset with Kontos than Coke. Giving up Tabata was disappointing but you gotta give something in order to get something.

Well the fact that Coke is LH had me excited.

shpadoinkle10
07-26-2008, 12:45 AM
Terrible trade for the Pirates.

Can anybody name the last Yankees prospect that wasn't overhyped by the NY media and was actually a half decent player? The last one that I can think of is probably Mike Lowell. And no, Joba doesn't count.

RedSoxhater
07-26-2008, 01:05 AM
All you other AL hopefulls can kiss your wild card dreams goodbye now.

Sigh

gcoll
07-26-2008, 01:24 AM
Sigh
You know what's funny about his post though?

He has the Yanks winning the wild card, instead of the division.

Joba Rules!!
07-26-2008, 01:34 AM
There are some hilarious posts in this thread. People who look at BA's ranking of him being third in the Yankees system should then look what he has done this year. I'd be surprised if he was even top 7 anymore to be honest, the guy has bust written all over him. While I'll admit he has serious potential, he hasn't progressed the way the Yankees hoped he would over the past two years power-wise. He has shown a lot of immaturity this year and I think the Yankees finally just gave up on him. They got Nady to replace a hurt Matsui which is an obvious upgrade to Brett Gardner who is hitting on the interstate, and Marte who gives them a stud lefty in the bullpen.

I'm kind of upset that they dealt Coke because he's one of the few lefty SP's in their system that could actually amount to anything. Don't the Bucs have like 4 lefties in their rotation right now? Why would they want him and not someone else?

Kontos has pretty good stuff and can K some guys, but he is overshadowed, with all of the pitching depth the Yanks have so it'll be good for him to finally stick out.

Joba Rules!!
07-26-2008, 01:35 AM
Terrible trade for the Pirates.

Can anybody name the last Yankees prospect that wasn't overhyped by the NY media and was actually a half decent player? The last one that I can think of is probably Mike Lowell. And no, Joba doesn't count.

Jeter, Rivera, Bernie, Pettitte, Posada?

nyyfan4life
07-26-2008, 01:48 AM
Jeter, Rivera, Bernie, Pettitte, Posada?

Nick Johnson b4 injuries and Dioner Navarro were also pretty solid players.

Yankeefan94
07-26-2008, 01:49 AM
Good trade for the Yankees :clap:

More to come...

quade36
07-26-2008, 01:50 AM
An interesting tidbit on every day Damaso Marte. I've seen him pitch for many years as a White Sox pitcher and for a lefty specialist, lefties kill him. Also he was horrible in the playoffs in 2005. One game against Boston he came in and walked the bases loaded with no outs. That was when El Duque got the next two batters to pop up and Damon to strike out in Chris Berman's famous cheer for Boston play call during an amazing pitching performance from the other team.

I can't say they did or didn't give up too much for Nady on this trade, but anything more then a utility player or a single A level player prospect for Marte, especially when he can't pitch in pressure situations, well I just shake my head.

Remember its not like Pittsburgh is in a lot of tight games or a playoff run when he comes in to pitch.

Joba Rules!!
07-26-2008, 02:00 AM
An interesting tidbit on every day Damaso Marte. I've seen him pitch for many years as a White Sox pitcher and for a lefty specialist, lefties kill him. Also he was horrible in the playoffs in 2005. One game against Boston he came in and walked the bases loaded with no outs. That was when El Duque got the next two batters to pop up and Damon to strike out in Chris Berman's famous cheer for Boston play call during an amazing pitching performance from the other team.

I can't say they did or didn't give up too much for Nady on this trade, but anything more then a utility player or a single A level player prospect for Marte, especially when he can't pitch in pressure situations, well I just shake my head.

Remember its not like Pittsburgh is in a lot of tight games or a playoff run when he comes in to pitch.

He hasn't been in Chicago since 2005, ever thought that maybe he has figured it out since then?

Joba Rules!!
07-26-2008, 02:01 AM
Nick Johnson b4 injuries and Dioner Navarro were also pretty solid players.

Drew Henson




























:hide:

HighVelocity
07-26-2008, 02:01 AM
Nice move by the Yankees. The Yankees get Nady who could really help them out against left-handed pitchers. Marte just makes the Yankees bullpen that much stronger. Now all the Yankees need to do now before the trade deadline is get a starting pitcher.

misterd
07-26-2008, 02:03 AM
pitchers have a rough transition coming to the AL...what makes you think it will effect Nady?

And people are down playing Marte, he is one of the best lefty relievers out there:confused:surprised a lot of you have said you haven't heard of him.

Um... Plays for Pirates = Assured Obscurity

misterd
07-26-2008, 02:05 AM
Jeter, Rivera, Bernie, Pettitte, Posada?

Cano, Wang....

...Igawa:rolleyes:

nyyfan4life
07-26-2008, 02:09 AM
An interesting tidbit on every day Damaso Marte. I've seen him pitch for many years as a White Sox pitcher and for a lefty specialist, lefties kill him. Also he was horrible in the playoffs in 2005. One game against Boston he came in and walked the bases loaded with no outs. That was when El Duque got the next two batters to pop up and Damon to strike out in Chris Berman's famous cheer for Boston play call during an amazing pitching performance from the other team.

I can't say they did or didn't give up too much for Nady on this trade, but anything more then a utility player or a single A level player prospect for Marte, especially when he can't pitch in pressure situations, well I just shake my head.

Remember its not like Pittsburgh is in a lot of tight games or a playoff run when he comes in to pitch.
I stopped reading after that bolded part.

For his career, lefties have hit .198 against him and have an OPS of .578 against Marte.

This year, lefties have hit him a bit better but thats because he wasn't used as a primary lefty set-up guy. He had to be the interim closer while Capps was out.

quade36
07-26-2008, 02:32 AM
I stopped reading after that bolded part.

For his career, lefties have hit .198 against him and have an OPS of .578 against Marte.

This year, lefties have hit him a bit better but thats because he wasn't used as a primary lefty set-up guy. He had to be the interim closer while Capps was out.

Look I am not saying you don't enjoy this trade or aren't happy he is on your team. He was good early in his career. All I am saying is when the White Sox got good and more pressure was on him he was pretty bad. It got to the point the last two years he was on the White Sox where the only time he would pitch well was when the game was not on the line. Stats can sometimes be very misleading. Pitching for the last place Pirates is quite different from the spot light he will have in NY. In 2005 he mainly pitched in non-factor situations. I also don't believe he had many tight situations in Pittsburgh. Thats not to say he won't do well in a pressure situation, but he failed horribly before. Just a buyer beware.

RedSoxhater
07-26-2008, 03:10 AM
You know what's funny about his post though?

He has the Yanks winning the wild card, instead of the division.

Whatever. I'm now sorry I defended his right to make brash posts in the Yankee forum.

ShinobiNYC
07-26-2008, 03:34 AM
Cano, Wang....

...Igawa:rolleyes:

Igawa is not a prospect, he is a bronze bust.

PRETTY BIRD
07-26-2008, 05:09 AM
that was a great trade for the yankees!

PRETTY BIRD
07-26-2008, 05:10 AM
maybe other teams will be tented to do something as well!

Humongo
07-26-2008, 06:33 AM
Tabata's gained weight and has a questionable make up (so I've heard). He's not the type of guy I want to headline a package for two of my most tradable commodities.

He's having a horrible season this year, and showing no power, but it's hardly unconceivable that a 19 year old get back on track. He's not quite as bad this year when you neutralize the park factors, but the difference is minimal.

The main problem I see is that his GB% is waaaay to high (~60%). He's barely getting anything into the air. I'm sure the minor league coaches and coordinaters are trying to help him solve that problem though. For what it's worth, he's nailing the ball at a .391/.417/.522/.939 clip over the last 28 days. Unfortunately he's only gotten 23 AB over that span, so that small sample size is useless.

The other three guys in the deal don't really impress me, and I view them as potential middle relievers. Nothing special, although I definitely could be wrong on that. Coke, IMO has the brightest future of those guys, and could be a back end starter one day if the Bucs stick with him as a starter.

All in all, I think the Yankees won, but not by a whole lot. None of the three pitchers heading to Pittsburgh have an overly high ceiling, and Tabata's ceiling is starting to look less and less obtainable. But, I think Nady is only a slightly above average hitter, and Marte is your everyday decent reliever. Not exactly world class talent going either way IMO.

viktor06
07-26-2008, 07:00 AM
Thats a good deal for Yankees, you paid 1top prospect + 1low prospect for each. Keep in mind Marte has a big chance to be a type A agent, so if you let him walk, you get his value back easy.

Joba Rules!!
07-26-2008, 07:22 AM
Thats a good deal for Yankees, you paid 1top prospect + 1low prospect for each. Keep in mind Marte has a big chance to be a type A agent, so if you let him walk, you get his value back easy.

There's no other top prospect besides Tabata in that deal. I hope you aren't talking about Ohlendorf...

shpadoinkle10
07-26-2008, 08:34 AM
Wow... I have to admit, I'm a bit embarrassed that I forgot about Wang. I guess it was just a case of out of sight, out of mind.

"Jeter, Rivera, Bernie, Pettitte, Posada?"

They were all prospects over a decade ago. That pretty much proves my point. During the Cashman era, the Yankees have produced 1 quality player in Wang, 1 player with a career OBP only 10 points higher than Michael Barrett in Cano, and that's it.

sportwiz628
07-26-2008, 08:40 AM
:cry::mad:

poppapuh86
07-26-2008, 09:14 AM
yankmes get----x. nady and d. marte
sawx get----big papi

I believe we have made the best addition so far and this is without giving up prospects.

Yanks lose again, starting to become a reoccuring trend. Who agrees?

DieHardColtsfan
07-26-2008, 09:20 AM
i can't believe everyone cant see why this trade is actually amazing for the Yankees!

I'm not going to go into stats or theory, I feel Nady upgrades in our injury infested lineup and OF. He adds a consistent bat and he has some very nice pop. His numbers tell the story. .330 Avg is beautiful on your resume. Marte was basically the most touted lefty out there behind Fuentes who the Rockies are asking the world.

THIS IS MY POINT

The Yankees ultimately did something very smart. On numerous occasions Boston showed interest in Marte. Also on numerous occasions Tampa showed interest in Nady. I'm not going to say we stole away options purposely for those reasons. We got those players b/c we definitely needed them. But we stole the cheaper options, the quick fixes. I'm sure there are better players out there. Holliday, Dunn, Fuentes, Mahay. But now if Tampa looks OF and Boston looks RP it will most likely cost them! B/c lets be honest we really didnt give up much. I heard teams even called saying "wow thats all they gave up"

Joba Rules!!
07-26-2008, 10:39 AM
Tabata's gained weight and has a questionable make up (so I've heard). He's not the type of guy I want to headline a package for two of my most tradable commodities.

He's having a horrible season this year, and showing no power, but it's hardly unconceivable that a 19 year old get back on track. He's not quite as bad this year when you neutralize the park factors, but the difference is minimal.

The main problem I see is that his GB% is waaaay to high (~60%). He's barely getting anything into the air. I'm sure the minor league coaches and coordinaters are trying to help him solve that problem though. For what it's worth, he's nailing the ball at a .391/.417/.522/.939 clip over the last 28 days. Unfortunately he's only gotten 23 AB over that span, so that small sample size is useless.

The other three guys in the deal don't really impress me, and I view them as potential middle relievers. Nothing special, although I definitely could be wrong on that. Coke, IMO has the brightest future of those guys, and could be a back end starter one day if the Bucs stick with him as a starter.

All in all, I think the Yankees won, but not by a whole lot. None of the three pitchers heading to Pittsburgh have an overly high ceiling, and Tabata's ceiling is starting to look less and less obtainable. But, I think Nady is only a slightly above average hitter, and Marte is your everyday decent reliever. Not exactly world class talent going either way IMO.

Good post, the only think I disagree with is the thing about Coke. He's a 26 year-old in AA, that's why his numbers are so good. Kontos and Ohlendorf have higher upsides. Ohlendorf has sick stuff, he was just utilized wrong by Girardi. Kontos also has very, very good stuff and could be a #2-3 starter in Pit if he reaches his potential.

The Lizard King
07-26-2008, 11:01 AM
The Yankees buy their team.

The Twins/Athletics/Rays and many others draft and develope their team.

You tell me which one is harder.

Joba Rules!!
07-26-2008, 11:03 AM
The Yankees buy their team.

The Twins/Athletics/Rays and many others draft and develope their team.

You tell me which one is harder.

How about drafting young talent then trading some of it for good players? In this case, how are the Yankees buying their team? They're just choosing to try and win now.

The Lizard King
07-26-2008, 11:11 AM
How about drafting young talent then trading some of it for good players? In this case, how are the Yankees buying their team? They're just choosing to try and win now.

They have been trying to "win now" for 10 years. Maybe longer.

The point is, even if the Twins/Rays/Athletics gave prospects for players like the Yankees "sometimes" do. They couldn't afford to pay them. This is why the Yankees have no legitimate excuse to not win it all every year.

hammerinhank
07-26-2008, 11:13 AM
yankmes get----x. nady and d. marte
sawx get----big papi

I believe we have made the best addition so far and this is without giving up prospects.

Yanks lose again, starting to become a reoccuring trend. Who agrees?

Last Nights Game

Yankees- 1
Red Sox- 0

I believe the Yankees won this game, who agrees?

Buckwheat
07-26-2008, 11:17 AM
yankmes get----x. nady and d. marte
sawx get----big papi

I believe we have made the best addition so far and this is without giving up prospects.

Yanks lose again, starting to become a reoccuring trend. Who agrees?

Nady > Papi this year

Who agrees?

The Lizard King
07-26-2008, 11:19 AM
2008 Yankees Payroll: $213,000,000

2008 Twins/Rays/Athletics/Marlins/Pirates Combined Payroll: $213,000,000

Buckwheat
07-26-2008, 11:23 AM
2008 Yankees Payroll: $213,000,000

2008 Twins/Rays/Athletics/Marlins/Pirates Combined Payroll: $213,000,000

I hate the Yankees as much as anyone..

But, who cares?

NY15METS2006
07-26-2008, 11:23 AM
Sweeney Murti just reported on WFAN that the prospects headed to Pittsburgh for Nady and Damaso Marte are different than previously thought:

The prospects are Jose Tabata Ross Ohlendorf, Jeff Karstens, and Dan McCutchen.

Just wanted to post this here to let you guys know if you haven't heard.

sep11ie
07-26-2008, 11:26 AM
Pirates get raped again. They could'a got a way better package elsewhere. We just love making play off teams better. At least it wasn't within the same dame division again.

The Lizard King
07-26-2008, 11:26 AM
I hate the Yankees as much as anyone..

But, who cares?

Really?

Buckwheat
07-26-2008, 11:28 AM
Really?

This is supposed to be a thread about their trade, and you bring in their payroll. It's in every thread about the Yankees and it just leads to fights.

Humongo
07-26-2008, 11:29 AM
Sweeney Murti just reported on WFAN that the prospects headed to Pittsburgh for Nady and Damaso Marte are different than previously thought:

The prospects are Jose Tabata Ross Ohlendorf, Jeff Karstens, and Dan McCutchen.

Just wanted to post this here to let you guys know if you haven't heard.

:eyebrow:

The Lizard King
07-26-2008, 11:32 AM
This is supposed to be a thread about their trade, and you bring in their payroll. It's in every thread about the Yankees and it just leads to fights.

Just expressing my opinion and sprinkling in a little fact. If you don't like it, don't read it. Others do care.

And if someone chooses to fight, I will simply ignore it.

Cheesyhoboe
07-26-2008, 11:39 AM
Daniel McCutchen is not a throw-in, he could probably be an effective back end starter right now for the Pirates. I think this makes the deal better for the Pirates, but as far as the Yankees go he was never going to be a major fixture in our rotation.

NY15METS2006
07-26-2008, 11:40 AM
According to the New York Post, the Pirates will be getting Daniel McCutchen and Jeff Karstens along with Jose Tabata and Ross Ohlendorf from the Yankees for Xavier Nady and Damaso Marte.
It was widely reported last night (including by the Post itself) that George Kontos and Phil Coke were in the deal in place of McCutchen and Karstens. This is clearly better for the Pirates. McCutchen is arguably the Yankees' best remaining pitching prospect, though he's not a big upside guy and he doesn't rank with Phil Hughes or Ian Kennedy. Karstens isn't much more than middle relief fodder, but neither was Coke. Jul. 26 - 11:21 am et
Source: New York Post

rotoworld.com

Tragedy
07-26-2008, 11:40 AM
The Yankees buy their team.

The Twins/Athletics/Rays and many others draft and develope their team.

You tell me which one is harder.

I am so sick of this evil empire.
Rays: Kazmir (Mets), Pena (Tigers/Red Sox/Yankees), Iwamura (Japan), Bartlett (Twins), Navarro (Yankees/D-Backs), Lee (Mets/Cubs), Garza (Twins), Jackson (Dodgers), Percival (Angels/Cardinals), Reyes (Cardinals), Hinske (Blue Jays/Red Sox), Wheeler (Astros).

So what were you saying about the Yankees buying their team while the Rays develop them? Just because the Rays don't make major trades as the Yankees do doesn't mean that the 25 guys they have came from their own team.

torontosports10
07-26-2008, 11:43 AM
The only thing im sick of is hoe the draft works. Some top rookies ask for way too much money and fall to the Sox or Yanks and they become great and then their scouts are praised like Jesus. Well everyone knew they were good they just would not spend the money on them like they would.. Once this gets fixed the league would run much better for all teams. But since the league makes all its money from the Yanks and Sox it wont change anythime soon

The Lizard King
07-26-2008, 11:45 AM
Rays: Kazmir (Mets), Pena (Tigers/Red Sox/Yankees), Iwamura (Japan), Bartlett (Twins), Navarro (Yankees/D-Backs), Lee (Mets/Cubs), Garza (Twins), Jackson (Dodgers), Percival (Angels/Cardinals), Reyes (Cardinals), Hinske (Blue Jays/Red Sox), Wheeler (Astros).

So what were you saying about the Yankees buying their team while the Rays develop them? Just because the Rays don't make major trades as the Yankees do doesn't mean that the 25 guys they have came from their own team.

2008 Yankees Payroll: $213,000,000

2008 Twins/Rays/Athletics/Marlins/Pirates Combined Payroll: $213,000,000

This is the difference. I just don't see how Yankees fans could legitimately compare themselves to the Rays or any other team with a modest payroll.

And how a team with $160,000,000 less in payrole can have a better record is just beyond me.

LOL. I am sorry I will stop now. I have no ill intentions here. I just wish to express what alot of people think but don't say.

Tragedy
07-26-2008, 11:47 AM
The only thing im sick of is hoe the draft works. Some top rookies ask for way too much money and fall to the Sox or Yanks and they become great and then their scouts are praised like Jesus. Well everyone knew they were good they just would not spend the money on them like they would.. Once this gets fixed the league would run much better for all teams. But since the league makes all its money from the Yanks and Sox it wont change anythime soon
It's not the Red Sox and Yankees fault that they're willing to spend the money to sign up the young kids. People always complain that they spend all the money in FA, and now they're trying to work the way other clubs do, which is draft as well as they can. Now they're to be blamed that a team like the Athletics won't dish some cash (Which realistically, the money the kids are asking for are still small compared to FA contracts)?

Tragedy
07-26-2008, 11:48 AM
2008 Yankees Payroll: $213,000,000

2008 Twins/Rays/Athletics/Marlins/Pirates Combined Payroll: $213,000,000

This is the difference. I just don't see how Yankees fans could legitimately compare themselves to the Rays or any other team with a modest payroll.

And how a team with $160,000,000 less in payrole can have a better record is just beyond me.

LOL. I am sorry I will stop now. I have no ill intentions here. I just wish to express what alot of people think but don't say.
So, then by your logic:

For the Yankees, it makes them bad that they have a lot of money, so they're able to go out and sign whomever they please (Buying a team, as you said).

For the Rays, it makes them good that they can go out and get cheap players from other teams, but that's not buying a team.

Ah, I see.

The Lizard King
07-26-2008, 11:48 AM
It's not the Red Sox and Yankees fault that they're willing to spend the money to sign up the young kids. People always complain that they spend all the money in FA, and now they're trying to work the way other clubs do, which is draft as well as they can. Now they're to be blamed that a team like the Athletics won't dish some cash (Which realistically, the money the kids are asking for are still small compared to FA contracts)?

Just because it isn't their fault doesn't make it right.

Tragedy
07-26-2008, 11:50 AM
Just because it isn't their fault doesn't make it right.
So then what should the Yankees and Red Sox do? If MLB doesn't like what they're seeing, why not step in an implement more rules as far as contracts to FA and contracts to draftee's go? As long as they're not going to do anything, then the Red Sox and Yankees are perfectly within their boundaries to give them the money that they want.

The Lizard King
07-26-2008, 11:50 AM
So, then by your logic:

For the Yankees, it makes them bad that they have a lot of money, so they're able to go out and sign whomever they please (Buying a team, as you said).

For the Rays, it makes them good that they can go out and get cheap players from other teams, but that's not buying a team.

Ah, I see.

Sorry, but this is ridiculous.

The Rays are winning largely with in house players.

The Yankees pay the biggest free agents what noone else can afford.

Humongo
07-26-2008, 11:51 AM
Are the Pirates collecting McCutchens?

The Lizard King
07-26-2008, 11:52 AM
It's not just a Yankee problem, it's a Baseball problem.

Just my opinion.

Humongo
07-26-2008, 11:53 AM
Sorry, but this is ridiculous.

The Rays are winning largely with in house players.

The Yankees pay the biggest free agents what noone else can afford.

Obviously not;

As Tragedy pointed out
Rays: Kazmir (Mets), Pena (Tigers/Red Sox/Yankees), Iwamura (Japan), Bartlett (Twins), Navarro (Yankees/D-Backs), Floyd (Mets/Cubs), Garza (Twins), Jackson (Dodgers), Percival (Angels/Cardinals), Reyes (Cardinals), Hinske (Blue Jays/Red Sox), Wheeler (Astros).

nyyfan4life
07-26-2008, 11:54 AM
Adding Dan McCutchen is a good move for the Bucs. Cutch is ML ready and can be an effective starter for them right now. Ohnly, who was throwing the ball "better than ever" can be either an effective reliever or a backend starter right now as well. Karstens is horse crap so I don't care if we gave him up. Tabata has serious talent but very questionable work ethic. He had clashes with teammates/coaches, walked out on his team, considered quitting baseball, looked fat and uninterested and didn't produce as expected. He will probably be better of with the Pirates. They have developed some nice OF prospects these past couple of years and have Andrew McCutchen absolutely killing the ball in AAA.

The Lizard King
07-26-2008, 11:55 AM
Obviously not;

As Tragedy pointed out
Rays: Kazmir (Mets), Pena (Tigers/Red Sox/Yankees), Iwamura (Japan), Bartlett (Twins), Navarro (Yankees/D-Backs), Floyd (Mets/Cubs), Garza (Twins), Jackson (Dodgers), Percival (Angels/Cardinals), Reyes (Cardinals), Hinske (Blue Jays/Red Sox), Wheeler (Astros).


And while you are at it, name the in house contributers for the Yankees.

All that aside, the point here is money more than anything. Don't forget that.

Why don't we use the Twins as the example instead of the Rays.

Tragedy
07-26-2008, 11:55 AM
Are the Pirates collecting McCutchens?
That's the word.


The Rays are winning largely with in house players.
Kazmir? Iwamura? Navarro? Pena? Garza? Percival? Wheeler? Where did these guys come from?

Sorry, but 16 of the 25 Rays players are NOT products of their system. I'm not saying that they're a greedy team like the big market boys that can get anyone, but you're acting as if the Rays don't go out and buy many of their players. Yes, some of their core players are from their system (Crawford, Upton to start), but you still can not ignore the fact that the Rays have gone out and made many trades/signings that resulted in most of their players being from other teams (And just because the signings weren't monster signings from the Yankees doesn't mean they can't be used here).

Tragedy
07-26-2008, 11:56 AM
Name the in house players now.

And while you are at it, name the in house contributers for the Yankees.

All that aside, the point here is money more than anything. Don't forget that.
No, the point shouldn't just be money.

the Yankees go out, they spend big bucks on players (They also trade to get good players).

The Rays do not spend big bucks on players, but instead go out and trade and sign smaller FA. They're a poor mans Yankees - They go out and get a TON of players that are helping the team win right now that aren't from the team.

The bold is basically the point. That you're being blind to that is silly.

The Lizard King
07-26-2008, 11:57 AM
Obviously not;

As Tragedy pointed out
Rays: Kazmir (Mets), Pena (Tigers/Red Sox/Yankees), Iwamura (Japan), Bartlett (Twins), Navarro (Yankees/D-Backs), Floyd (Mets/Cubs), Garza (Twins), Jackson (Dodgers), Percival (Angels/Cardinals), Reyes (Cardinals), Hinske (Blue Jays/Red Sox), Wheeler (Astros).

Recieving prospects and developing them is much different than throwing 15 million a year at some high prized free agent by the way.

NYMetros
07-26-2008, 11:58 AM
According to the New York Post, the Pirates will be getting Daniel McCutchen and Jeff Karstens along with Jose Tabata and Ross Ohlendorf from the Yankees for Xavier Nady and Damaso Marte.
It was widely reported last night (including by the Post itself) that George Kontos and Phil Coke were in the deal in place of McCutchen and Karstens. This is clearly better for the Pirates. McCutchen is arguably the Yankees' best remaining pitching prospect, though he's not a big upside guy and he doesn't rank with Phil Hughes or Ian Kennedy. Karstens isn't much more than middle relief fodder, but neither was Coke. Jul. 26 - 11:21 am et
Source: New York Post

rotoworld.com

If that is the case, then I like this trade a lot more for us. We desperately need pitching. These 2 pitchers may not turn into aces, but you never know. At the very least they will be #3 or #4's for us in the rotation. Not a bad deal at all for us.

For the Yankees, if they don't win the World Series, then I think it was a bad deal for them. They are giving up some pretty good players in this deal.

The Lizard King
07-26-2008, 12:00 PM
No, the point shouldn't just be money.

the Yankees go out, they spend big bucks on players (They also trade to get good players).

The Rays do not spend big bucks on players, but instead go out and trade and sign smaller FA. They're a poor mans Yankees - They go out and get a TON of players that are helping the team win right now that aren't from the team.

The bold is basically the point. That you're being blind to that is silly.

Recieving prospects and developing them is much different than throwing 15 million a year at some high prized free agent by the way.

And obviousy the talent dropoff from 15 million a year to 3 million a year is generally large. The fact you are blind to that is silly.

The Lizard King
07-26-2008, 12:03 PM
It just happens to be, this year the Rays are playing to their potential.

What do you think will happen in two years when these good players on the Rays play out their contracts?

Here come the Yankees!

Then the Rays will have to rely once again on their drafting and devolping skills to keep their team in contention. While the Yankees just sit back and wait until a free agent they like pops up and offer him a contract no small market team could possibly match.

Tragedy
07-26-2008, 12:08 PM
It just happens to be, this year the Rays are playing to their potential.
Um, not exactly. I like what the Rays have done this year, but it took a lot of outside help for this team to be good. That's the same thing that can be said for the Yankees, money not factored.


Then the Rays will have to rely once again on their drafting and devolping skills to keep their team in contention.
Yeah, great drafting skills to post the highest bidding on Iwamura, to sign Percival, Pena, Floyd, and Hinske, and to trade for the likes of Navarro, Wheeler, Garza, and Jackson.


While the Yankees just sit back and wait until a free agent they like pops up and offer him a contract no small market team could possibly match.
And that's just so awful the George has the cash to pay when he wants. Damn him. :pity:

nyyfan4life
07-26-2008, 12:08 PM
If that is the case, then I like this trade a lot more for us. We desperately need pitching. These 2 pitchers may not turn into aces, but you never know. At the very least they will be #3 or #4's for us in the rotation. Not a bad deal at all for us.

For the Yankees, if they don't win the World Series, then I think it was a bad deal for them. They are giving up some pretty good players in this deal.

Not really. We have better pitchers in the system. Tabata is the only one I'm upset with losing but without his involvement in the deal, this trade wouldn't have worked. But both Jesus Montero and Austin Jackson surpassed Tabata this year as the organization's top positional prospects.

nyyfan4life
07-26-2008, 12:11 PM
And while you are at it, name the in house contributers for the Yankees.

All that aside, the point here is money more than anything. Don't forget that.

Why don't we use the Twins as the example instead of the Rays.

Wang (b4 he got hurt)
Jeter
Posada (b4 injury of course)
Rivera
Pettitte
Joba
Cano
Melky
Gardner
Rasner
Edwar Ramirez
Jose Veras
Dave Robertson

Cheesyhoboe
07-26-2008, 12:13 PM
You know, it's hard NOT to have a good farm system when you're picking in the Top 3 ever year, so I wouldn't give too much credit to Tampa Bay's scouting department...

NYMetros
07-26-2008, 12:18 PM
Not really. We have better pitchers in the system. Tabata is the only one I'm upset with losing but without his involvement in the deal, this trade wouldn't have worked. But both Jesus Montero and Austin Jackson surpassed Tabata this year as the organization's top positional prospects.

Obviously we won't be able to tell exactly who got the better deal until we see how Tabata and McCutchen turn out.

The Lizard King
07-26-2008, 12:21 PM
Wang (b4 he got hurt)
Jeter
Posada (b4 injury of course)
Rivera
Pettitte
Joba
Cano
Melky
Gardner
Rasner
Edwar Ramirez
Jose Veras
Dave Robertson

Why don't we use the Twins as the example instead of the Rays.

Cheesyhoboe
07-26-2008, 12:23 PM
Obviously we won't be able to tell exactly who got the better deal until we see how Tabata and McCutchen turn out.

There's no projection left in McCutchen, he's major league ready either as a #4 or #5 starter or a decent middle reliever. The major piece is still Tabata.

nyyfan4life
07-26-2008, 12:27 PM
Obviously we won't be able to tell exactly who got the better deal until we see how Tabata and McCutchen turn out.

Eh, its basically "what you see is what you get" with Cutch. He is ML ready right now unlike some of our other prospects. Throws in the high-80's, low-90's without much movement. Both his curve and splitter are decent enough pitches, neither are true out pitches. Has very good command but at times tends to leave ball up in the zone. He was never an elite SO guy so don't expect a lot of K's. The one thing I like about his is that he has above average stamina. He goes deep into games and doesn't tire much. Also he was suspended 50 games in 2006 for testing positive for a prescription amphetamine.

Tabata will be good if your farm guys can develop him.

The Lizard King
07-26-2008, 12:28 PM
Wang (b4 he got hurt)
Jeter
Posada (b4 injury of course)
Rivera
Pettitte
Joba
Cano
Melky
Gardner
Rasner
Edwar Ramirez
Jose Veras
Dave Robertson

Could a small market team afford to pay Jetter $22,000,000 a year? Or Posada $13,000,000? Or Pettitte $16,000,000? Or Rivera $15,000,000?

Isn't this the point?

nyyfan4life
07-26-2008, 12:32 PM
Could a small market team afford to pay Jetter $22,000,000 a year? Or Posada $13,000,000? Or Pettitte $16,000,000? Or Rivera $15,000,000?

Isn't this the point?

Not really you're just switching up the argument and going off-topic. The topic isn't whether the Yanks can do what they wish with their resources its about the Nady/Marte deal.

Furthermore the Twins owner (Carl Pohland) has a lot more money than the Steinbrenners. The difference is that he's just in the business to make money while our owner has been puting his own money back in the team. I'd rather have an owner who gives a damn unlike the Twins. He could have easily kept Santana and Hunter and be kicking *** even more this year, but he isn't interested in hurting himself financially.

Don't be a Yankee hater. Get of their nuts. I'm sure complaining about the Yanks is the highlight of your day.

The Lizard King
07-26-2008, 12:36 PM
Wang (b4 he got hurt)
Jeter
Posada (b4 injury of course)
Rivera
Pettitte
Joba
Cano
Melky
Gardner
Rasner
Edwar Ramirez
Jose Veras
Dave Robertson

Rasner is 5-7 with nearly a 5.00 ERA

Cano is hitting .265 and has a .690 OPS

Cabrera is hitting .248 and has a .652 OPS

Gardner is hitting .153 with a .397 OPS

Where would the Yankees be without these high end players with unmatchable contracts?

I'll tell you where. A middle to lower road team.

The Lizard King
07-26-2008, 12:37 PM
What else do you guys need?

Nevermind. It's hopeless.

Cheesyhoboe
07-26-2008, 12:39 PM
Rasner is 5-7 with nearly a 5.00 ERA

Cano is hitting .265 and has a .690 OPS

Cabrera is hitting .248 and has a .652 OPS

Gardner is hitting .153 with a .397 OPS

Where would the Yankees be without these high end players with unmatchable contracts?

I'll tell you where. A middle to lower road team.

Whoops, sorry we can't be a team like the Rays or Brewers who were universally terrible for 10 years and manage to pick in the Top 10 in the draft every year. Oh, I also like how you only pick the players who are doing poorly and completely ignore the ones who aren't (also yeah Cano sure is a career 690 OPS hitter).

The Lizard King
07-26-2008, 12:43 PM
Whoops, sorry we can't be a team like the Rays or Brewers who were universally terrible for 10 years and manage to pick in the Top 10 in the draft every year. Oh, I also like how you only pick the players who are doing poorly and completely ignore the ones who aren't (also yeah Cano sure is a career 690 OPS hitter).

Yes, there are few players on that list who are playing well, but that isn't the point.

The point is, out of all of those players there are only 2 or 3 that aren't overpaid or performing subpar.

Not to mention all of the other players that arent on that list who have ridiculous contracts that no small market team could afford.

The Lizard King
07-26-2008, 12:44 PM
Whoops, sorry we can't be a team like the Rays or Brewers who were universally terrible for 10 years and manage to pick in the Top 10 in the draft every year. Oh, I also like how you only pick the players who are doing poorly and completely ignore the ones who aren't (also yeah Cano sure is a career 690 OPS hitter).

And by the way, if the Yankees didn't have an overabundance of wealth, THEY would be picking in the top 10 every year.

sep11ie
07-26-2008, 12:46 PM
Rays: Kazmir (Mets), Pena (Tigers/Red Sox/Yankees), Iwamura (Japan), Bartlett (Twins), Navarro (Yankees/D-Backs), Lee (Mets/Cubs), Garza (Twins), Jackson (Dodgers), Percival (Angels/Cardinals), Reyes (Cardinals), Hinske (Blue Jays/Red Sox), Wheeler (Astros).

So what were you saying about the Yankees buying their team while the Rays develop them? Just because the Rays don't make major trades as the Yankees do doesn't mean that the 25 guys they have came from their own team.

FACE!

nyyfan4life
07-26-2008, 12:47 PM
Rasner is 5-7 with nearly a 5.00 ERA

Cano is hitting .265 and has a .690 OPS

Cabrera is hitting .248 and has a .652 OPS

Gardner is hitting .153 with a .397 OPS

Where would the Yankees be without these high end players with unmatchable contracts?

I'll tell you where. A middle to lower road team.

Yes because Cano makes 3 mill this year and the rest all league minimum. Rasner is a 5t starter what the hell do you expect? Cano has low numbers due to a horrid start. He has kicked *** thus far in the second half and is a career .300 hitter and when right, he is one of the best 2nd baseman around. Cabrera has also had a horrid start but he plays very good defense in CF and again only makes the minimum. Gardner is a rookie LF that is just getting adjusted to Majors. Also league minimum. You are keep on proving that you know nothing about baseball. Just sit down before humiliating yourself. Lastly this isn't even the topic at hand.

The Lizard King
07-26-2008, 12:52 PM
FACE!

Did you read anything else? No? I knew it.

The Lizard King
07-26-2008, 12:58 PM
Yes because Cano makes 3 mill this year and the rest all league minimum. Rasner is a 5t starter what the hell do you expect? Cano has low numbers due to a horrid start. He has kicked *** thus far in the second half and is a career .300 hitter and when right, he is one of the best 2nd baseman around. Cabrera has also had a horrid start but he plays very good defense in CF and again only makes the minimum. Gardner is a rookie LF that is just getting adjusted to Majors. Also league minimum. You are keep on proving that you know nothing about baseball. Just sit down before humiliating yourself. Lastly this isn't even the topic at hand.

It's all the topic at hand.

Where would the Yankees be without the players who's contracts are much higher than any small or even mid market team could afford?

The Lizard King
07-26-2008, 01:00 PM
They would have a few nice prospects who haven't bloomed yet.

jayglazer
07-26-2008, 01:12 PM
Clearly, Nady has shown tremendous production for stretches of time. He is not going to hit .330 for rest of the season, but I believe he is one of those players who is going to strive playing on the grand stage of Yankee Stadium. If he had never had great stretches as he has had this year, it would obviously be a reach to call him a plus major league bat. But given this year, and his production during other parts of earlier years, I think for now he is a suitable replacement for the aging Bobby Abreu, whose club option is due at the end of this year.

The Lizard King
07-26-2008, 01:32 PM
Not really you're just switching up the argument and going off-topic. The topic isn't whether the Yanks can do what they wish with their resources its about the Nady/Marte deal.

Furthermore the Twins owner (Carl Pohland) has a lot more money than the Steinbrenners. The difference is that he's just in the business to make money while our owner has been puting his own money back in the team. I'd rather have an owner who gives a damn unlike the Twins. He could have easily kept Santana and Hunter and be kicking *** even more this year, but he isn't interested in hurting himself financially.

Don't be a Yankee hater. Get of their nuts. I'm sure complaining about the Yanks is the highlight of your day.

I have to admit I am getting some enjoyment out of this, yes, but by no means is it the highlight of my day.

I am not merely arguing this point for the sake of arguing. I would simply like to have a civil logical discussion.

By the way. Is that a fact that Pohlad has more money than Steinbrenner? I know he has alot, but more than Steinbrenner?

nyyfan4life
07-26-2008, 01:37 PM
I have to admit I am getting some enjoyment out of this, yes, but by no means is it the highlight of my day.

I am not merely arguing this point for the sake of arguing. I would simply like to have a civil logical discussion.

By the way. Is that a fact that Pohlad has more money than Steinbrenner? I know he has alot, but more than Steinbrenner?

Pohlad is probably the richest owner in baseball. The Red Sox brain trust have more money than the Steinbrenners, mainly cuz they have a partnership.

The Lizard King
07-26-2008, 01:41 PM
Pohlad is probably the richest owner in baseball. The Red Sox brain trust have more money than the Steinbrenners, mainly cuz they have a partnership.

Okay, I will just assume you are right as I don't know.

Why don't we compare the Twins and the Yankees then. Maybe the Rays were a bad example.

The Lizard King
07-26-2008, 01:42 PM
The Twins are largely an in house team.

And the Yankees are their evil counterpart. ;)

What do you have to say to that?

Joba Rules!!
07-26-2008, 01:48 PM
All of your arguments have been shot down with statistical/factual evidence....just stop

The Lizard King
07-26-2008, 01:50 PM
All of your arguments have been shot down with statistical/factual evidence....just stop

LOL.

Not really.

And centainly not by you.

Joba Rules!!
07-26-2008, 02:04 PM
LOL.

Not really.

And centainly not by you.

Uhh read any of Tradgedy's posts and you'll find otherwise.

BTW, what you did was textbook baiting. You come into a thread about a trade and the first thing you say is "The Yankees buy their team" Honestly, can you explain to me what that has to do with the topic at hand?

The Lizard King
07-26-2008, 02:06 PM
Uhh read any of Tradgedy's posts and you'll find otherwise.

BTW, what you did was textbook baiting. You come into a thread about a trade and the first thing you say is "The Yankees buy their team" Honestly, can you explain to me what that has to do with the topic at hand?

Tragedy didn't prove anything. We both made good points, and neither was obviously wrong.

Baiting or debating?

Joba Rules!!
07-26-2008, 02:17 PM
Tragedy didn't prove anything. We both made good points, and neither was obviously wrong.

Baiting or debating?

It's baiting

NESports2004
07-26-2008, 07:06 PM
lets pray for eric gagme repeat!!!!!!!!!!!

JHG722
07-26-2008, 07:18 PM
I have to admit I am getting some enjoyment out of this, yes, but by no means is it the highlight of my day.

I am not merely arguing this point for the sake of arguing. I would simply like to have a civil logical discussion.

By the way. Is that a fact that Pohlad has more money than Steinbrenner? I know he has alot, but more than Steinbrenner?

Pohlad has twice as much money as Steinbrenner.

Tragedy
07-26-2008, 07:21 PM
Pohlad has twice as much money as Steinbrenner.
Rated on that Forbes 400 list, or whatever. Pretty high up. Multi billionaire - And a cheap one, at that.

Joba Rules!!
07-26-2008, 07:26 PM
lets pray for eric gagme repeat!!!!!!!!!!!

So far he's pitched to one batter....David Ortiz...he K'd him. :D