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SwaggaIke
07-24-2008, 07:27 PM
A fluke championship? I know there are a lot of differing opinions on the matter and I would like to hear them all. I won't include a poll because that's just a way for guys to vote and not give a valid opinion. Heat fans, keep it classy.

CHief_0_o_Wahoo
07-24-2008, 07:31 PM
Why would it have been a fluke? Shaq is one of the greatest players of all-time and Dwayne Wade is a good player not great but good (although he played great that series).

HiphopRelated
07-24-2008, 07:33 PM
I don't see how it's a fluke

Once Miami traded for Shaq, there was a 3 -4 year window to win

In '05, Wade's rib muscle was the only thing that prevented Miami from facing the Spurs in the Finals.

'06, they were healthy, tore through the East playoffs and won the title

'07, Injury riddled season, Shaq declines. team wasn't healthy 'til ASB, then Wade goes down 1st game after(shoulder). Was the last chance to truly compete.

'08 disaster

'

albertc86
07-24-2008, 07:50 PM
It wasn't a fluke, but they did get a lot of help from the refs.

RCFSU
07-24-2008, 07:53 PM
no way was it a fluke. many people, including ESPN.COM, considered wade's performance as one of the greatest in finals history. also, being able to come out of an 0-2 hole makes it even more legit.

nascar10294
07-24-2008, 07:56 PM
Dont think any championship is a fluke.

marlinsfan24
07-24-2008, 07:58 PM
it wasn't a fluke. if it weren't for injuries they could have had a chance to repeat as well

J$mo0th_3o5
07-24-2008, 08:02 PM
No Fluke! We had one of the best players in the league Wade and Shaq one of the best centers ever. Also a pretty good supporting cast.

Chronz
07-24-2008, 08:06 PM
Not any more so than any other championship, believe me when I say that plenty of NBA finals have caused enough of an outrage that plenty were speculating about fixes. The difference between then and now is the media, if Dallas hadnt choked away and showed they didnt have what it took to be a champion I might have thought if this title alittle differently, but it is what it is.

Its a fluke in the sense that I doubt Wade will ever play at that level again, it was one for the ages thats for sure.

fairandbalanced
07-24-2008, 08:44 PM
Please close tread.....what is the intent? Get over it, Dallas lost their cool and the championship, and D-Wade did what has not been done since Jordan. Give credit where it is due and stop hating.

Master Mind
07-24-2008, 08:54 PM
Why would it have been a fluke? Shaq is one of the greatest players of all-time and Dwayne Wade is a good player not great but good (although he played great that series).

Only great players can perform like that on the biggest stage of the NBA...

ChitownbullsBG7
07-24-2008, 08:54 PM
Its not that it was a fluke but most see it as a Mavs breakdown more than the Heat being the better team.

Master Mind
07-24-2008, 09:00 PM
Its not that it was a fluke but most see it as a Mavs breakdown more than the Heat being the better team.

The series was won by the Heat, 4-2...A breakdown would be the Mavs up 3-0 then losing the following 4...They won the first 2 home games like they should have but couldn't withstand the heat in Miami from that point on...

So most should look at it as the better team woke up and ran off 4 straight games after losing the first 2 on route to a title...:eyebrow:

daleja424
07-24-2008, 09:01 PM
Well i think the fact that dallas cracked while miami didn't (despite Miami having all the pressure, not dallas) proves that the Heat were actually the better team...

CHief_0_o_Wahoo
07-24-2008, 09:12 PM
Only great players can perform like that on the biggest stage of the NBA...

He isn't and won't ever be considered the greatest players of all-time, I'm not saying he is bad and I am not saying that his performance was bad. Who was guarding him that series? Mavs aren't a very good defensive team.. One great series doesn't put you into the greatest players of all-time list.
Let alone he hasn't even reached 10,000pts and he already is struggling with injuries..

P.S. I think he was making a living off of Shaq, I don't think Shaq gets the credit he deserved in that series..

_Sn1P3r_
07-24-2008, 09:19 PM
No fluke. Players stepped up their game, especially Wade, they played as a unit, played D. No fluke.

BriereIsDaBest
07-24-2008, 09:37 PM
A fluke championship? I know there are a lot of differing opinions on the matter and I would like to hear them all. I won't include a poll because that's just a way for guys to vote and not give a valid opinion. Heat fans, keep it classy.

^^^ Especially this one! :p

NYMets27
07-24-2008, 09:38 PM
not at all a fluke Wade played out of this world and they stepped up when they had to

BADizzleBoY
07-24-2008, 09:41 PM
Yes it is a fluke.

MiamiHeatMafia
07-24-2008, 10:01 PM
The heat were a better team in that championship by far. I hate how people say it was all Wade and thats why we won. All true heat fans would have remembered all of Shaq great games in that final, Walkers amazing 4th and 5th game in that final, and J-Wills game 6 in which i think he only missed one or two shots (or something like that) in 13 shot attempts with over 20 points in that game. All in all that heat championship was the opposite of a fluke.

Chronz
07-24-2008, 10:07 PM
The series was won by the Heat, 4-2...A breakdown would be the Mavs up 3-0 then losing the following 4...They won the first 2 home games like they should have but couldn't withstand the heat in Miami from that point on...

So most should look at it as the better team woke up and ran off 4 straight games after losing the first 2 on route to a title...:eyebrow:

The Mavs collapsed man, there is no way around it. They choked when it mattered and couldnt win that game 3 despite the large lead.

Heat were the better team because they won, but you cant say the Mavs didnt choke.

croce_99
07-24-2008, 10:15 PM
Keep the thread on topic

BADizzleBoY
07-24-2008, 10:17 PM
Okay croce sorry.

BriereIsDaBest
07-24-2008, 10:19 PM
Okay croce sorry.

Don't say sorry! :p haha jk Croce

lakerboy
07-24-2008, 10:31 PM
No championships are won by fluke.

#1Mavericksfan
07-24-2008, 10:41 PM
The Mavs collapsed man, there is no way around it. They choked when it mattered and couldnt win that game 3 despite the large lead.

Heat were the better team because they won, but you cant say the Mavs didnt choke.

Please explain to me how they "choke" dude please to me? sine you wonna keep saying that...tell me?

BriereIsDaBest
07-24-2008, 10:47 PM
Please explain to me how they "choke" dude please to me? sine you wonna keep saying that...tell me?

Because they were up 2-0 in the series, and had a big lead in #3, but then they completely failed. They just choked. :confused:

BADizzleBoY
07-24-2008, 10:48 PM
Please explain to me how they "choke" dude please to me? sine you wonna keep saying that...tell me?

lol how didnt they choke?

BigEric
07-24-2008, 10:57 PM
It wasn't a fluke, but they did get a lot of help from the refs.

Wade did have too many FT's

daleja424
07-24-2008, 10:58 PM
I think you are selling wade way too short... They Mavs lost b/c wade was lighting them up for 40 a game... period. You cant choke on defense for 4 games... If they stopped wade they woulda won...they couldnt. How is that choking?

Master Mind
07-24-2008, 10:58 PM
The Mavs collapsed man, there is no way around it. They choked when it mattered and couldnt win that game 3 despite the large lead.

Heat were the better team because they won, but you cant say the Mavs didnt choke.


Because they were up 2-0 in the series, and had a big lead in #3, but then they completely failed. They just choked. :confused:


lol how didnt they choke?

Last time I checked you had to win 4 games to win a series not 2 nor 3 so even if they won game 3 they weren't guaranteed to win the rest...And as we all witnessed the Heat ran off 4 straight games signifying the better team...

And if thats the case, did the Hawks choke this year against the C's? Did Philly choke against the Pistons? :eyebrow:

The better teams won...

BADizzleBoY
07-24-2008, 11:01 PM
lol that a completely different situation, no offense but that comparison is terrible. Guys comeon the mavs were up 2-0 in the series, they were 6 mins away from winning game 3 and going up 3-0. But they lost game 3 and the blew the finals. They chocked

fishfan79
07-24-2008, 11:06 PM
Wade had perhaps the best performance in the history of the NBA that finals.

The year before they should of went the only thing that stopped them was wade getting hurt badly and they still almost went (shaq was hurt too) if not for about the last 40 seconds of poor play.

They were a vet team that made their window might see the same in boston now honestly.

Heat will make the playoffs if Wade is healthy and be a 4-6 seat this year imo.

Orlando has more talent but after that I do think they are one of the better teams in the east if Wade is truly healthy.

BADizzleBoY
07-24-2008, 11:07 PM
they are a 6th seed at best.

still1ballin
07-24-2008, 11:43 PM
Fluke!.....Ref's handed it to the heat. Not to be hating, but never have i seen so much treatment given to a player. (WADE)

crew158
07-24-2008, 11:54 PM
Fluke!.....Ref's handed it to the heat. Not to be hating, but never have i seen so much treatment given to a player. (WADE)

Yes this is true. He got the real MJ treatment

#1Mavericksfan
07-25-2008, 12:05 AM
Fluke!.....Ref's handed it to the heat. Not to be hating, but never have i seen so much treatment given to a player. (WADE)

Thank you! even Tracy Mcgrady said that

JordansBulls
07-25-2008, 12:07 AM
A fluke championship? I know there are a lot of differing opinions on the matter and I would like to hear them all. I won't include a poll because that's just a way for guys to vote and not give a valid opinion. Heat fans, keep it classy.

A lot of people do because not only did they lose in the 1st round the next year, but they got swept and thats why many felt the Heat's title was a lucky one. But we all honestly know it was due to Wade being injured and them playing the wrong team.

SwaggaIke
07-25-2008, 12:13 AM
Yea I wasn't on the boards then I just wondered what people think about our ring. I see a lot of different opinions and people calling our title a fluke pisses me off. Considering we were top 6 in the league in both defense and offense. We were two minutes away from going to the Finals the year before. And our star was rehabbing a shoulder injury the following year. Nobody really takes those things into account. It seems like we are one of the most hated franchises. We get hated on like no other. Even when we were at our peak, we were still hated. People talk about D Wades free throw attempts, but never about our defense in the last four games. Or Riley's coaching adjustments. Or the fact that Posey and Haslem just started shutting Nowitzki down.

HiphopRelated
07-25-2008, 12:51 AM
Thank you! even Tracy Mcgrady said that
the fukk TMac know about Finals??

dude's opinion is worth about as much as any other forums poster

king4day
07-25-2008, 01:24 AM
While the refs played a part in that series, I think the Heat earned that ring.
If Dirk hits his FT's in game 3 and the Mavs win, then obviously we dn't have this convo. But he didn't and that led to a snowball of misfortune.

stawka
07-25-2008, 05:07 AM
Thank you! even Tracy Mcgrady said that

What the hell does T-Mac know about the NBA Finals, or post-season for that matter? It's like Charles Barkley saying Dick Bavetta is fat!

stawka
07-25-2008, 05:12 AM
Fluke!.....Ref's handed it to the heat. Not to be hating, but never have i seen so much treatment given to a player. (WADE)

Well, you are hating mate. It cant be explained any other way. So is your hate built up from Shaq winning another Championship without your beloved one? Or is it the fear that Wade is a #2 or #3 SG in the league?

Let me guess, the ref's gave the Celtics the Championship this year? Or did they give Detroit the Championship in '04.

fairandbalanced
07-25-2008, 08:54 AM
If this was a tread questioning a laker championship, it would be considered baiting, thus the tread would have been closed. You moderators are classless.

Mr.ATLHawks
07-25-2008, 09:51 AM
LOL..you guys dont like D Wade do you? He is not a great player? WTF? Dude is lightning quick mid range jumper is wet like no other, attacks the basket which is why he gets calls, has developed his 3 pointer alot better then when he entered the league. Yeah he has no Shaq to free up the lane for him but so what. In his rookie year he carried the Heat without Shaq...Please step off this mans nuts, You gonna build a franchise Dwayne Wade is an excellent starting piece to go off of. He was hurt, yes, b/c he declined to have sugery b/c his team was trying to make a playoff run so he paid for it last year, but im sorry we bash players who play hurt and kiss the babies, who cant play with a foot blister, *****. Is Dwayne Wade Kobe Bryant...not yet but what was Kobe doing his first couple years in the league? I think Dwayne Wade has accomplished more thus far. Out of the younger guys in respect to shooting guards who else you going to say is better then Wade besides Lebron James?

And to co-sign with the collective opinion here, no championship is a fluke. The series just played out like it always does...Defense wins championships. Dallas shot lights out the first 2 and a half games but then Miami turned the defense up a notch. You cant control how many points you score but you can control how many points the other team scores. Boston is excellent proof of this..Dirk Nowitski is just a nervous little punk with no stomach for pressure. Sorry Dallas fans we know the boy can score but you need to get rid of this guy, he will never lead you to a championship....

recyclow
07-25-2008, 10:28 AM
This is shocking coming from a Mav's fan.

So if you haven't see that much treatment given since MJ, does that mean all his 6 championships are flukes?

F'n dorks!

sarge1985
07-25-2008, 10:28 AM
Plain and simple the Heat were the better team. Dwayne took them over the top in game three but all the Heat players contributed, remember "15 Strong". Payton's big shot, Zo's Defense, Posey's Hustle, everyone contributed. Like somebody else said quit hating and get over it.

BALLER71
07-25-2008, 10:30 AM
He isn't and won't ever be considered the greatest players of all-time, I'm not saying he is bad and I am not saying that his performance was bad. Who was guarding him that series? Mavs aren't a very good defensive team.. One great series doesn't put you into the greatest players of all-time list.
Let alone he hasn't even reached 10,000pts and he already is struggling with injuries..

P.S. I think he was making a living off of Shaq, I don't think Shaq gets the credit he deserved in that series..

He had the greatest performance in the Finals.
I saw it on this list, Tim Duncan had the 2nd best performance and Jordan had the 3rd best.

ackar
07-25-2008, 10:46 AM
Bulls fan here and there is no way you can win a championship of any kind it be considered a fluke!

barreleffact
07-25-2008, 10:48 AM
Why would it have been a fluke? Shaq is one of the greatest players of all-time and Dwayne Wade is a good player not great but good (although he played great that series).

dwayne wade is not great? are you insane? an injured dwyane wade still is top 5 in the league. let alone when healthy. he is an absolute stud and a class act. the championship wasnt a fluke. the year before they would have won too had wade not been out in game 5(i think) because of the flu. they lost to the eventual champions, the pistons, in the ECF. dwyane in 06 won by himself except posey and mourning also played well. besides them the entire roster sucked including shaq. wade can do literally everything except for shoot 3's. his championship was not a fluke and he is a HOF talent. book it...not great? please...hes done more in his first 4 years than lebron may do in his career

barreleffact
07-25-2008, 10:58 AM
Thank you! even Tracy Mcgrady said that

mcgrady says a lot of stuff....like guaranteed wins for him....havent seen him back anything. but the refs did send wade to the line a lot, but lets see...hes a slasher. if he was a jump shooter, id see what you guys mean but his game is going to the line and driving.

barreleffact
07-25-2008, 11:04 AM
Well, you are hating mate. It cant be explained any other way. So is your hate built up from Shaq winning another Championship without your beloved one? Or is it the fear that Wade is a #2 or #3 SG in the league?

Let me guess, the ref's gave the Celtics the Championship this year? Or did they give Detroit the Championship in '04.


woa...lets not talk about this year...the refs completely gave the C's game 2 and that was teh biggest game of the series besides game 4's ******** loss. the lakers IMO never recovered from the bs in game 2 and the fact that the league simply wanted them to win. there is no team in teh league passive enough for a 30 pt free throw disparity. wade earned everything he got. the c's...well they earned it in game 4. not in game 2. and had game 2 been fair...we never know

HeatFan
07-25-2008, 11:35 AM
You guys have so many good points its tempting to dive right in. However, Tracy McGrady giving opinions is absolutely as was mentioned before, he can't. He doesn't get calls because he launches so many threes that opportunities to get calls are less. From time to time he might light up (see san antonio spurs) for something like 12 points in a minute to win the game. But other than that not many calls his way. Dirk Nowitzki I can't say he'll ever win a championship or his jitters might some day dissappear. He is a very very good player but was honestly dominated on the defensive end by posey (who demonstrated these skills once again in pressure situations with the Celtics) and Haslem who although is not very tall, played too physical for Dirk.

Going back to foul calls, it was already mentioned as well. MJ got alot of calls and to this point we all consider him the best there was and probably ever will be. One thing that gave him all these calls was his aggressiveness and sacrificing his body to get these calls (something wade also does but pays a high price with injuries). Therefore, getting calls is just demonstrating his smart basketball instincts which count for being considered a great player (smart + skills = MJ). I do agree that Dallas kind of choked in the sense that although they had Dirk in check, Josh Howard dissappeared and nobody really stepped it up from halfway game three to game six.

I am a Miami fan and don't wan't to be biased, but given the facts its impossible to say that it was a fluke. They stepped it up at the right time and went for the prize like Dallas wasn't able to.

CHief_0_o_Wahoo
07-25-2008, 12:32 PM
He had the greatest performance in the Finals.
I saw it on this list, Tim Duncan had the 2nd best performance and Jordan had the 3rd best.

Okay like I said I am not saying his performance was bad. You have to factor in some things. Shaq demanded double teams, and the mavs defense was horrible. I really hope your not saying he will be one of the greatest players ever just because that series, just doesn't make sense.. He has been in the league for 5 years he is already starting to get plagued by the injury bug I am not saying he is a bad player at all I am simply saying he won't make the all-time great list because one series just doesn't work like that..

CHief_0_o_Wahoo
07-25-2008, 12:38 PM
dwayne wade is not great? are you insane? an injured dwyane wade still is top 5 in the league. let alone when healthy. he is an absolute stud and a class act. the championship wasnt a fluke. the year before they would have won too had wade not been out in game 5(i think) because of the flu. they lost to the eventual champions, the pistons, in the ECF. dwyane in 06 won by himself except posey and mourning also played well. besides them the entire roster sucked including shaq. wade can do literally everything except for shoot 3's. his championship was not a fluke and he is a HOF talent. book it...not great? please...hes done more in his first 4 years than lebron may do in his career

You have to be kidding me.. If LeBron had Shaq for the time Wade did the Cavs would've won every year.. The team that won had hall of fame players like Gary Payton, Alonzo Morning, and Shaq.. I am not insane the guy isn't going to be one of the greatest players of all-time. I am not saying he isn't one of the best in the league *AT THIS POINT IN TIME*. The guy doesn't have 10,000pts and he already is getting injury prone..

barreleffact
07-25-2008, 01:10 PM
You have to be kidding me.. If LeBron had Shaq for the time Wade did the Cavs would've won every year.. The team that won had hall of fame players like Gary Payton, Alonzo Morning, and Shaq.. I am not insane the guy isn't going to be one of the greatest players of all-time. I am not saying he isn't one of the best in the league *AT THIS POINT IN TIME*. The guy doesn't have 10,000pts and he already is getting injury prone..

GP, ZO, and Shaq and the butt end of their careers. if LA couldnt win with malone, a better shaq, kobe, and payton, how could lebron have done it? he couldnt. hes not a scrub but points arent everything. dwyane wade is more clutch than lebron could ever dream of being and thats why they won. wen its all said and done wade will be a top 5 SG of all time....that may be an over statement but he will def be a HOFer. and injury prone? 1 bad year and hes injury prone? he isnt injury prone yet...he may become that way because of his stle, but its way too soon to write him off like that

Thatruth32
07-25-2008, 01:15 PM
naw it wasnt a fluke at all they had shaq and dwade and they were the best team that year jsut because they didnt do much after doesnt make that season a fluke

Hawkeye15
07-25-2008, 01:22 PM
Miami had the best timing in basketball history. They went through the cakewalk east, while the Mavs held off the Spurs, who would have killed the Heat in the finals, and then the Mavs pulled a monster choke job due to Cuban never shutting up, and their star players folding like paper. Wade was an animal, and took advantage. The refs may have been highly in favor of Miami, but can you blame them?? If I had Cuban and Dirk screaming at me for 48 minutes, I wouldn't give them a call either. Shut up and play. Plus, Shaq really wanted to stick it to Kobe and win a ring without him. Something Kobe will have a hard time doing.

Hawkeye15
07-25-2008, 01:24 PM
dwayne wade is not great? are you insane? an injured dwyane wade still is top 5 in the league. let alone when healthy. he is an absolute stud and a class act. the championship wasnt a fluke. the year before they would have won too had wade not been out in game 5(i think) because of the flu. they lost to the eventual champions, the pistons, in the ECF. dwyane in 06 won by himself except posey and mourning also played well. besides them the entire roster sucked including shaq. wade can do literally everything except for shoot 3's. his championship was not a fluke and he is a HOF talent. book it...not great? please...hes done more in his first 4 years than lebron may do in his career

An injured Dwayne Wade isn't a top 15 player in the NBA. Not even close. He had one great playoff run. Outside of that, he hasn't proved anything. He is a top talent, but he needs to toughen up. Iverson went to the basket for years, is half his size, and never misses games.

kriviant
07-25-2008, 02:08 PM
Please someone explain to me how winning the NBA Finals in any case can be a fluke.

All you people saying D-Wade is good and not great are out of your minds or have a severe case of denial. He has the BEST PER Rating in NBA Finals history. He completely dominated those games. Nobody on the Maverick's roster could come even close to being able to guard him properly. Yeah we had Shaq, and we had a great supporting cast, but it was thanks to Wade we won this championship. Shaq really didn't do all that much in the finals to be honest.

Oh and did the Maverick's choke? Yes they did. Pretty sure you can say a team choked when they are up 2-0 and lose every game afterward in the finals. Think about how many times that has happened in the past. It's pretty rare. Dirk Nowitzki is a good player, but he's not clutch at all. Pressure is not his friend.

jayp420
07-25-2008, 02:17 PM
the only fluke was dallas making it to the finals

CHief_0_o_Wahoo
07-25-2008, 02:28 PM
An injured Dwayne Wade isn't a top 15 player in the NBA. Not even close. He had one great playoff run. Outside of that, he hasn't proved anything. He is a top talent, but he needs to toughen up. Iverson went to the basket for years, is half his size, and never misses games.

Thank you..For explaining it better for this guy.

CHief_0_o_Wahoo
07-25-2008, 02:38 PM
LeBron will be in the top 5 greatest players of all-time if he keeps up in what he is doing.. Dwayne Wade had one of the greatest players of all-time on his team when he won be real man he was still was averaging a 20ppg 9rpg a night. If thats butt of his career type numbers then give me a break. LeBron single handling took his team to the finals think what would of happened if he had Shaq on his team. I know Zo and Gary were on the low end but they still were quality players. Gary Payton still was the glove on D and Zo still blocked at a above average rate.

josh81589
07-25-2008, 02:43 PM
i dont see how a team can win when its 7 or 8 against 5
seriously the refs were playin favorites

MKAUF280
07-25-2008, 02:53 PM
There is no such thing as a fluke in an NBA finals. It's a 7 game series, theres room for the better team to make an error and still be able to recover. The Heat were the better team and rode one of the best Finals performances in the history of the NBA.

midwestmadman
07-25-2008, 02:55 PM
The Miami Heat NBA Championship in 2005 was well deserved and yes they were a great team. However with their immediate fall from grace in 2006 (injuries etc.) not to mention all these allegations of Referee tampering it is hard to say if it was a fluke or not. D. Wade got to the line like anverge of 20 times per game alone! It that isn;t one sided calling what is? Dallas was less than 3 minutes away from taking a 3-0 lead before the whistles we let out. I can argue the calls thast were made in the finals as anyone could, however they won the series and they were the Champions there is no flulke about that.

HeatFan
07-25-2008, 03:24 PM
An injured Dwayne Wade isn't a top 15 player in the NBA. Not even close. He had one great playoff run. Outside of that, he hasn't proved anything. He is a top talent, but he needs to toughen up. Iverson went to the basket for years, is half his size, and never misses games.

Tough to say he hasn't proved anything. To start off, he came in during his rookie year and took to another level an embarrasing Miami Heat team that lost their first 8 or 9 games, Riley ditched them, and their most proven player was an unproven Lamar Odom (ironic) and Eddie Jones. During that year you might remember how he played the point guard position against the Charlotte Hornets and basically dominated Baron Davis in a series where they won on wade's game winning shot. In the second round, took a much better Indiana team to a game six with Wade leading the team scoring 21pts and 6ast per game. All this the same year Lebron, Melo and Bosh came in the NBA and neither made the playoffs.

Second year went to the Conference Finals and outplayed Detroit. Wade didn't play a game six that they lost and had a banged up Wade for game seven which they also lost. This equation only adds up to Wade being the main reason why Miami was successful and without him the team didn't have much of a chance. During his third year he won the NBA championship and proved that when healthy, he could walk all over the Detroit Pistons (their biggest threat at that moment). His health problems have been very well documented but that is not because of a lack of toughness. He just hasn't taken a complete offseason to rehab from his injuries (think Team USA) which also goes to show you that he doesn't back down (toughness). Best player in the league (Kobe Bryant) has had his health troubles as well.

Cut him some slack.

daleja424
07-25-2008, 03:30 PM
Tough to say he hasn't proved anything. To start off, he came in during his rookie year and took to another level an embarrasing Miami Heat team that lost their first 8 or 9 games, Riley ditched them, and their most proven player was an unproven Lamar Odom (ironic) and Eddie Jones. During that year you might remember how he played the point guard position against the Charlotte Hornets and basically dominated Baron Davis in a series where they won on wade's game winning shot. In the second round, took a much better Indiana team to a game six with Wade leading the team scoring 21pts and 6ast per game. All this the same year Lebron, Melo and Bosh came in the NBA and neither made the playoffs.

Second year went to the Conference Finals and outplayed Detroit. Wade didn't play a game six that they lost and had a banged up Wade for game seven which they also lost. This equation only adds up to Wade being the main reason why Miami was successful and without him the team didn't have much of a chance. During his third year he won the NBA championship and proved that when healthy, he could walk all over the Detroit Pistons (their biggest threat at that moment). His health problems have been very well documented but that is not because of a lack of toughness. He just hasn't taken a complete offseason to rehab from his injuries (think Team USA) which also goes to show you that he doesn't back down (toughness). Best player in the league (Kobe Bryant) has had his health troubles as well.

Cut him some slack.

:clap::clap::clap:

JackSplack
07-25-2008, 03:45 PM
Heat won for these five reasons in no particular order:

1. Avery Johnson's inability to take the double team off of Shaq (his best contributing factor, not his actual play)

2. Dallas being Mentally Weak...David Hasselhoff chants anyone? (they've proved this every year since)

3. D-Wade Going Ape-***t crazy from game three on

4. The refs calling every foul under the sun, and then some

5. Haslem's Mouthpiece

(notice how Pat Riley throwing 15 strong cards in the middle of the locker room isn't there)

Did someone say D-wade's a good player, but not great? When he's healthy that man is a walking highlight reel of straight up magnificence. Course he's a C.R.E.A.M. player, but I forgive that since he's on my hometeam.

OUfan4life15
07-25-2008, 04:18 PM
The Miami Heat NBA Championship in 2005 was well deserved and yes they were a great team. However with their immediate fall from grace in 2006 (injuries etc.) not to mention all these allegations of Referee tampering it is hard to say if it was a fluke or not. D. Wade got to the line like anverge of 20 times per game alone! It that isn;t one sided calling what is? Dallas was less than 3 minutes away from taking a 3-0 lead before the whistles we let out. I can argue the calls thast were made in the finals as anyone could, however they won the series and they were the Champions there is no flulke about that.

This.

BriereIsDaBest
07-25-2008, 05:57 PM
I think you are selling wade way too short... They Mavs lost b/c wade was lighting them up for 40 a game... period. You cant choke on defense for 4 games... If they stopped wade they woulda won...they couldnt. How is that choking?

Allen Iverson also scored 40 multiple nights in the Finals against the Lakers in '01, but that didn't change anything. :shrug:

barreleffact
07-25-2008, 07:02 PM
Really man? C'mon lets grow up..
LeBron will be in the top 5 greatest players of all-time if he keeps up in what he is doing.. Dwayne Wade had one of the greatest players of all-time on his team when he won be real man he was still was averaging a 20ppg 9rpg a night. If thats butt of his career type numbers then give me a break. LeBron single handling took his team to the finals think what would of happened if he had Shaq on his team. I know Zo and Gary were on the low end but they still were quality players. Gary Payton still was the glove on D and Zo still blocked at a above average rate.

kobe, shaq, malone, and GP is a better team than GP lebron zo and shaq...yet the first team lost right? lebron isnt as clutch as wade and honestly who do u see him passing in the top 5? MJ, pippen is top 5 too IMO, oscar, wilt, bird, russel, kareem...sooo many players will always be above him. lebron has the body to be a top 5 but not the mind. hes still a choker, still limited in the fact that he cant shoot well unless hes hot, cant post, and isnt a great defender. shaq scored because of wade. he was foul and injury proned enough to be almost inexistent. in the finals shaq was not seen at all but zo was, and posey. thats it IMO. wade didnt need GP, they were gonna win the year b4, and zo was everything, but shaq was nothing. im not downing lebron but he has far more to prove than wade, and in 06 everyone was calling him the next jordan and saying he was even better than kobe...lebron is just hype. and until he shows me something worth being excited about, hes no kobe, no wade, no jordan...thats not a degrading statement at all tho.

barreleffact
07-25-2008, 07:04 PM
Allen Iverson also scored 40 multiple nights in the Finals against the Lakers in '01, but that didn't change anything. :shrug:

wade's better than AI plus he had a better team than AI did. AI had noone besides MUtumbo on D and noone at all on O. D-wade had a good roster...not that any of em showed up but he did have sum ppl

SwaggaIke
07-25-2008, 07:19 PM
Tough to say he hasn't proved anything. To start off, he came in during his rookie year and took to another level an embarrasing Miami Heat team that lost their first 8 or 9 games, Riley ditched them, and their most proven player was an unproven Lamar Odom (ironic) and Eddie Jones. During that year you might remember how he played the point guard position against the Charlotte Hornets and basically dominated Baron Davis in a series where they won on wade's game winning shot. In the second round, took a much better Indiana team to a game six with Wade leading the team scoring 21pts and 6ast per game. All this the same year Lebron, Melo and Bosh came in the NBA and neither made the playoffs.

Second year went to the Conference Finals and outplayed Detroit. Wade didn't play a game six that they lost and had a banged up Wade for game seven which they also lost. This equation only adds up to Wade being the main reason why Miami was successful and without him the team didn't have much of a chance. During his third year he won the NBA championship and proved that when healthy, he could walk all over the Detroit Pistons (their biggest threat at that moment). His health problems have been very well documented but that is not because of a lack of toughness. He just hasn't taken a complete offseason to rehab from his injuries (think Team USA) which also goes to show you that he doesn't back down (toughness). Best player in the league (Kobe Bryant) has had his health troubles as well.

Cut him some slack.

Beautiful post. I look forward to talking to you in the Heat forum.

BADizzleBoY
07-25-2008, 07:20 PM
:love:

Hawkeye15
07-25-2008, 07:32 PM
Tough to say he hasn't proved anything. To start off, he came in during his rookie year and took to another level an embarrasing Miami Heat team that lost their first 8 or 9 games, Riley ditched them, and their most proven player was an unproven Lamar Odom (ironic) and Eddie Jones. During that year you might remember how he played the point guard position against the Charlotte Hornets and basically dominated Baron Davis in a series where they won on wade's game winning shot. In the second round, took a much better Indiana team to a game six with Wade leading the team scoring 21pts and 6ast per game. All this the same year Lebron, Melo and Bosh came in the NBA and neither made the playoffs.

Second year went to the Conference Finals and outplayed Detroit. Wade didn't play a game six that they lost and had a banged up Wade for game seven which they also lost. This equation only adds up to Wade being the main reason why Miami was successful and without him the team didn't have much of a chance. During his third year he won the NBA championship and proved that when healthy, he could walk all over the Detroit Pistons (their biggest threat at that moment). His health problems have been very well documented but that is not because of a lack of toughness. He just hasn't taken a complete offseason to rehab from his injuries (think Team USA) which also goes to show you that he doesn't back down (toughness). Best player in the league (Kobe Bryant) has had his health troubles as well.

Cut him some slack.

Okay, here is my problem with Wade. Another mainline star, whose team comes together at the right time, and all of a sudden, he is a top 5 player, and HOFer. Yes, he was better than expected coming out of college. Yes, he is a dynamic talent. But he caught the fortune of playing with Shaq right before his decline, which means you see open lane all night long. The refs to this day take a huge liking to him. Compare the fouling to MJ all you wanted. MJ hit over 50% for his career, and played in a day when you didn't have the sissy hand check rule that allows guys like Wade, Parker, Ginoboli, etc to thrive. Look, I like Wade. But he is overhyped. Look at all the Boston fans, and the experts now, citing how much of a superstar Paul Pierce is. He is still the same old Pierce, things just went right at the perfect time. And Wade does lack toughness. Not mentally, he always wants to play no matter what. But his body is fragile. Allen Iverson is 5'11", 160 lbs, and played the same way for 10 years, never missing games. That is my point. No championship is a fluke. They were the best team in the NBA at that point of the season. I still think SA would have whipped them, Dallas completely caved.

CHief_0_o_Wahoo
07-25-2008, 08:00 PM
Okay, here is my problem with Wade. Another mainline star, whose team comes together at the right time, and all of a sudden, he is a top 5 player, and HOFer. Yes, he was better than expected coming out of college. Yes, he is a dynamic talent. But he caught the fortune of playing with Shaq right before his decline, which means you see open lane all night long. The refs to this day take a huge liking to him. Compare the fouling to MJ all you wanted. MJ hit over 50% for his career, and played in a day when you didn't have the sissy hand check rule that allows guys like Wade, Parker, Ginoboli, etc to thrive. Look, I like Wade. But he is overhyped. Look at all the Boston fans, and the experts now, citing how much of a superstar Paul Pierce is. He is still the same old Pierce, things just went right at the perfect time. And Wade does lack toughness. Not mentally, he always wants to play no matter what. But his body is fragile. Allen Iverson is 5'11", 160 lbs, and played the same way for 10 years, never missing games. That is my point. No championship is a fluke. They were the best team in the NBA at that point of the season. I still think SA would have whipped them, Dallas completely caved.

Yea Wade has never even played all 82 games.. Iverson has had a few seasons plagued by injury though.

argo
07-25-2008, 08:56 PM
Dont think any championship is a fluke.

Agreed.

The road is too long and tough for "fluke" championships. Crazy how they crumbled the next year though.

NBABALLERHOLLER
07-25-2008, 09:13 PM
Okay, here is my problem with Wade. Another mainline star, whose team comes together at the right time, and all of a sudden, he is a top 5 player, and HOFer. Yes, he was better than expected coming out of college. Yes, he is a dynamic talent. But he caught the fortune of playing with Shaq right before his decline, which means you see open lane all night long. The refs to this day take a huge liking to him. Compare the fouling to MJ all you wanted. MJ hit over 50% for his career, and played in a day when you didn't have the sissy hand check rule that allows guys like Wade, Parker, Ginoboli, etc to thrive. Look, I like Wade. But he is overhyped. Look at all the Boston fans, and the experts now, citing how much of a superstar Paul Pierce is. He is still the same old Pierce, things just went right at the perfect time. And Wade does lack toughness. Not mentally, he always wants to play no matter what. But his body is fragile. Allen Iverson is 5'11", 160 lbs, and played the same way for 10 years, never missing games. That is my point. No championship is a fluke. They were the best team in the NBA at that point of the season. I still think SA would have whipped them, Dallas completely caved.

DUDE...NO. JUST NO. I WATCHED EVERY SINGLE GAME. EVERY SINGLE GAME. D WADE WAS BRILLIANT. NOT THE MESSIAH MIND YOU, BUT BRILLIANT. HE WAS THE MESSIAH DURING THE FINALS AND SHOWED SIGNS OF THE MESSIAH DURING THE REGULAR SEASON THAT YEAR. SHAQ BARELY PLAYED. I MEAN BARELY. WHEN ZO WAS IN THE GAME, THE HEAT THRIVED IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP FINALS. OH GOD YOU DON'T KNOW DO YOU? SHAQ DID NOT TRY AT ALL THAT YEAR. NO, HE PUSHED "WE'LL TURN IT ON IN THE END" MENTALITY AND GOT WALKER AND EVEN POSESY BENCHED FOR BEING OUT OF SHAPE. SHAQ WAS A GREAT PLAYER BUT NOT SO MUCH OF A FACTOR COMPARED TO WADE CONTRIBUTIONS AND THAT OF THE REST OF THE TEAM. IT WAS ALL HASLEM AND POSEY SHUTTING DOWN NOWITSKI AND WADE REACHING ORGASMICALLY HIGH BASKETBALL GOD POWERS. DON'T SELL HIM SHORT BECAUSE HE HAS BEEN PLAYING INJURED. LET ME TELL YOU I AM WATCHING HIM RIGH FREAKIN' NOW AND WATCHING HIM BE PERFECT FROM THE FIELD AND SINKING 3'S. TUNE IN AND WATCH. RIGHT FREAKIN NOW MAN!! RIGHT NOW ON E. S. P. N. HE ROCKS MAN. HE IS FREAKIN ON. WADE OUGHTA COME TO YOUR HOUSE AND SLAP YOUR MOMA FOR TALKING TRASH.

barreleffact
07-25-2008, 10:21 PM
Okay, here is my problem with Wade. Another mainline star, whose team comes together at the right time, and all of a sudden, he is a top 5 player, and HOFer. Yes, he was better than expected coming out of college. Yes, he is a dynamic talent. But he caught the fortune of playing with Shaq right before his decline, which means you see open lane all night long. The refs to this day take a huge liking to him. Compare the fouling to MJ all you wanted. MJ hit over 50% for his career, and played in a day when you didn't have the sissy hand check rule that allows guys like Wade, Parker, Ginoboli, etc to thrive. Look, I like Wade. But he is overhyped. Look at all the Boston fans, and the experts now, citing how much of a superstar Paul Pierce is. He is still the same old Pierce, things just went right at the perfect time. And Wade does lack toughness. Not mentally, he always wants to play no matter what. But his body is fragile. Allen Iverson is 5'11", 160 lbs, and played the same way for 10 years, never missing games. That is my point. No championship is a fluke. They were the best team in the NBA at that point of the season. I still think SA would have whipped them, Dallas completely caved.

1st- cmon man, stop sying AI never missed games. his injury list is one of the longest ive seen. just because he hasnt had surgeries that require a solid year off doesnt mean he's always injury free.

2nd- MJ'S day was different than now. some huge changes make me tend to believe it would have been a lot harder for him to do the things he did...ala the no zone rule. zone is a kryptonite for a driver, but it doesnt stop wade.

3rd- his teams came together at the right time? yea, they came together at the right time 3 years in a row right? i mean he took them to the 2nd round and almost the 3rd in his 1st year. took them to the 3rd and almost the finals his 2nd, and won the finals his 3rd...but na, its not his greatness. its the team coming together....please dude its more the first than the latter. he cant do it alone, but shaq is a fould plagued blob and was then too. wade carried that team. people always argue that shaq made it easier for him and sure, why not. but that doesnt mean he couldnt have suceeded w/o him. he was already on track to do it w/o him.

4- pierce is called teh truth for a reason...he's had a solid career but you're right. he is no superstar. i dont consider him over hyped as much as finally getting what he deserves. i mean, he got no love for a long time and considering his team, he shouldnt have, but this is just making up for it until kobe steals teh shine again.

CHief_0_o_Wahoo
07-25-2008, 10:57 PM
1st- cmon man, stop sying AI never missed games. his injury list is one of the longest ive seen. just because he hasnt had surgeries that require a solid year off doesnt mean he's always injury free.

2nd- MJ'S day was different than now. some huge changes make me tend to believe it would have been a lot harder for him to do the things he did...ala the no zone rule. zone is a kryptonite for a driver, but it doesnt stop wade.

3rd- his teams came together at the right time? yea, they came together at the right time 3 years in a row right? i mean he took them to the 2nd round and almost the 3rd in his 1st year. took them to the 3rd and almost the finals his 2nd, and won the finals his 3rd...but na, its not his greatness. its the team coming together....please dude its more the first than the latter. he cant do it alone, but shaq is a fould plagued blob and was then too. wade carried that team. people always argue that shaq made it easier for him and sure, why not. but that doesnt mean he couldnt have suceeded w/o him. he was already on track to do it w/o him.

4- pierce is called teh truth for a reason...he's had a solid career but you're right. he is no superstar. i dont consider him over hyped as much as finally getting what he deserves. i mean, he got no love for a long time and considering his team, he shouldnt have, but this is just making up for it until kobe steals teh shine again.

I feel that Wade will have a Pierce type career with a little more superstar hype going his way. I think Wade is a superstar of his time but won't be remembered as one of the greatest ever to play.. Kind of like a Chris Webber (obviously different positions) or maybe a Mitch Richmond, Penny Hardaway in his prime..

BriereIsDaBest
07-25-2008, 11:02 PM
wade's better than AI plus he had a better team than AI did. AI had noone besides MUtumbo on D and noone at all on O. D-wade had a good roster...not that any of em showed up but he did have sum ppl

I was just saying that, because you were saying that the Heat won because Wade scored 40 a night.

KB24PG16
07-26-2008, 02:31 AM
no its just a team gettin a championship when there window is closing with shaq payton and all the other player who departed right after