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View Full Version : D Wade and Team USA are all about the money.



NBABALLERHOLLER
07-24-2008, 06:54 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Money changes people. How can any athlete put the genocide in Darfur behind "doing business" in China? It's one thing not to disrespect the host country and it another thing to be chicken ***t. Where are the Tommie Smiths and John Carloses of our time? I thought the Olympics were about fraternity and cooperation. Is the Olympics the proper forum to make a humanistic statement? Let's see...the whole world will be watching and supporting their own but in the spirit of PEACE. Sounds right to me.

For those of you who like to keep our sporting events de-politicized I argue that it is not a political position to be against genocide. It is a human value that trumps left or right wings, blue or red (or green) affiliations, and even gold, silver or bronze medals.

For shame China. For shame America. And for shame D Wade and company. So much for "NBA cares." All we seem to care about is ourselves. Not other people, not the environment, and certainly not human rights.

Ask yourselves why arguably the most memorable Olympic moments are Jesse Owen winning four golds in Hitler's house proving the worth of all people and not just the Aryan majority. And again in 1968 in the heat of OUR civil rights movement where the Black Power statement admitted to the world our hypocrisy at home. My friends that took balls.

In the internet age where anyone can say what they think to pass on an opportunity when the whole world is captivated by the potential of all mankind is a sad loss.

My question to you all is: Is it a lack of empathy to say nothing on the part of D Wade? Is it ignorance of current events and history that makes him loose perspective? Is it his contractual obligations to his sponsors to not be a pariah? Or are the Olympics simply not the right forum?

After all, talking about 10 year old African girls being gang raped and killed really would be kind of a downer. We really just want to focus on dominating the medal tally and buy the crap they hock during commercial breaks but we might not if we are too busy talking and calling each other and blogging about courage, justice, and compassion because we were inspired by one of our "heroes"... and trade rumors of course what would we do if we couldn't talk about trades?

JackSplack
07-24-2008, 07:19 PM
It's not a question of ignorance or contracts, it's just ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!!

Jordan said it best when he said "Republicans buy shoes too."

Endorsements are the stupidist thing in sports. Drink Pepsi because Shaq drinks Pepsi....does Shaq like Pepsi? Who cares, they paid him more than Coke!!!

The only compesation for endorsements should be free stuff. if you like Cheeto's, endorse cheetos, and then get a lifetime supply of Cheeto's!

Screw Okafor, Lets trade Haslem and Cook for Kamen!!!!

Koopa sucks serious aaaaaaaaaass
Daleja tambien!

ATX
07-24-2008, 07:46 PM
.

fins08
07-24-2008, 08:06 PM
Aren't 95% of us in this world all about the money. Be honest, how many of you would rather make millions than tell people about the wrongness going on in Darfur. No disrespect and I don't wanna offend anyone, but money is money, everyone is after it and the more you get, the more you want. It isn't worth speaking about the evils in this world because politics don't mesh with sports. Let the World leaders do their thing, that is what their job is. I would spread the messege in other ways, but not ways where I loose lots of cash.

JackSplack
07-24-2008, 08:38 PM
Aren't 95% of us in this world all about the money. Be honest, how many of you would rather make millions than tell people about the wrongness going on in Darfur...It isn't worth speaking about the evils in this world because politics don't mesh with sports...I would spread the messege in other ways, but not ways where I loose lots of cash.

These basketball athletes that are given access to an international stage do not in any conceivable way jeopardize their multi-million dollar PLAYING contracts by speaking out. Now an amateur athlete, they risk a whole lot because endorsements are where they're going to get paid. No group of athletes for this Olympics are as wealthy as Team USA Basketball. 12 players currently account for a fortune of what is to be, once the 2010 season comes, a total of over $500,000,000 in contractual PLAYING money.
If any group is to speak out, it should be them, for they can truly afford to. But instead you have, not just silence, but the flippant response of "its just business." As a society we have fostered and encouraged a dehumanizing widespread sociopathy in the name of "it's just business."
But hey, we have nice little commercials with Dwayne Wade putting up inner city hoops, all in the name of Lincoln Motors, so it's all good.

daleja424
07-24-2008, 08:56 PM
It's not a question of ignorance or contracts, it's just ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!!

Jordan said it best when he said "Republicans buy shoes too."

Endorsements are the stupidist thing in sports. Drink Pepsi because Shaq drinks Pepsi....does Shaq like Pepsi? Who cares, they paid him more than Coke!!!

The only compesation for endorsements should be free stuff. if you like Cheeto's, endorse cheetos, and then get a lifetime supply of Cheeto's!

Screw Okafor, Lets trade Haslem and Cook for Kamen!!!!

Koopa sucks serious aaaaaaaaaass
Daleja tambien!

grow up and start acting like you actually know something about basketball...or stop posting altogether...

other then that I have no problem with what you posted... I just dont understand your immaturity...

JackSplack
07-24-2008, 09:36 PM
Aww, did I hurt your feelings... ;-(

what wasn't grown up about the post? Just the part where I infer that you are indeed a conneseiur of mule? Because the rest of both posts is perfectly fine regarding basketball, economics, and social structure (not necessarily right, but fine in the givens of a debatable position).

Funny how you negate not just my two posts, but the posts of everyone else to harp on a little barb. Get some novicane and rub it good cuz you are just all too sensitive

And seriously, speaking of worthless posts, if all you and your butt buddy koopa can say to disparage anything I write is the equivelant of "hey your stupid, you suck, shut up" then perhaps its you that should give it a rest. Im sure our MVP Ricky Davis has a bunion that needs rubbing, get to it...I assume he's not just paying you to prop up his online cred.

ps. ATX!! What happened to your post? it was good and now it's blank?

daleja424
07-24-2008, 09:41 PM
Aww, did I hurt your feelings... ;-(

what wasn't grown up about the post? Just the part where I infer that you are indeed a conneseiur of mule? Because the rest of both posts is perfectly fine regarding basketball, economics, and social structure (not necessarily right, but fine in the givens of a debatable position).

Funny how you negate not just my two posts, but the posts of everyone else to harp on a little barb. Get some novicane and rub it good cuz you are just all too sensitive

And seriously, speaking of worthless posts, if all you and your butt buddy koopa can say to disparage anything I write is the equivelant of "hey your stupid, you suck, shut up" then perhaps its you that should give it a rest. Im sure our MVP Ricky Davis has a bunion that needs rubbing, get to it...I assume he's not just paying you to prop up his online cred.

ps. ATX!! What happened to your post? it was good and now it's blank?


what exactly about trading Haslem and Cook for Kaman seems to make basketball sense to you?

...and again...why do you have to act like your 10 freakin years old man. seriously...

JackSplack
07-24-2008, 09:48 PM
Dude, seriously, are you ********? It was a lighten up end of post comment that related to NBABallerHoller's lighten up end of post comment about still talking about trade rumors. The thread is about something other than if we're in play for Okafor or Smith or anything like that. Again, if that is all you picked up from not just my post, but everyone elses post on this thread, it seems like you are just looking to start shiiiiiiiiiit.

On a side note I was at the gym yesterday and two big looking dudes who street ball with timmy"i hate homos" hardaway were talking about haslem maybe going to the Clips, so its in my mind. Now Wright and Haslem for Kamen probably makes more sense, but I like wright and he's cheap, so I said Cook instead. I made Kamen the centerpiece because i can't see us really wanting anything else the Clips have outside of Kamen...

Is that broken down enough for you?

daleja424
07-24-2008, 09:52 PM
Dude, seriously, are you ********? It was a lighten up end of post comment that related to NBABallerHoller's lighten up end of post comment about still talking about trade rumors. The thread is about something other than if we're in play for Okafor or Smith or anything like that. Again, if that is all you picked up from not just my post, but everyone elses post on this thread, it seems like you are just looking to start shiiiiiiiiiit.

On a side note I was at the gym yesterday and two big looking dudes who street ball with timmy"i hate homos" hardaway were talking about haslem maybe going to the Clips, so its in my mind. Now Wright and Haslem for Kamen probably makes more sense, but I like wright and he's cheap, so I said Cook instead. I made Kamen the centerpiece because i can't see us really wanting anything else the Clips have outside of Kamen...

Is that broken down enough for you?

hey dude... your the a-hole starting stuff. Lets see.... whos the one making ********, unprovoked, and unnecessary comments at the end of their posts like "Koopa and daleja suck aaaaaaass". Oh ya...that was you!

And if you really think that LA is going to trade Kaman for haslem and an average filler you really are :smoking: or :drunk: or :censored: ********...

why dont you go post that in the Clippers forum and see what they have to say...

daleja424
07-24-2008, 09:59 PM
I dont know what I did to piss you off...but u need to get over it for real dude. I generally respect your opinion but you make it impossible to have a mature conversation with you when you act like a child man. come on...

JackSplack
07-24-2008, 10:00 PM
hey dude... your the a-hole starting stuff. Lets see.... whos the one making ********, unprovoked, and unnecessary comments at the end of their posts like Koopa and daleja suck aaaaaaass. Oh ya...that was you!

And if you really think that LA is going to trade Kaman for haslem and an average filler you really are :smoking:!!!

First:
A child reading my post about what I overheard at the gym can infer that I don't think the clips are really going to trade Kamen. Its not just reading chap, its reading and comprehension...3rd grade stuff.
Second: Again, on a thread about money,politics,humanity, and how sport fits in, you have yet to even address the topic.

...But okay lil' baby, you win, i'm a low iq ******(remember when you and your boy dropped that unprovoked comment last week...one of many you all dropped?)...so write your last pouty post and have koopa tuck you in with the cozy satisfaction of knowing that you've won whatever it is you think you've won.
And hey, while your at it furiously typing away with those nimble fingers of yours, maybe you can find the time and thought to actual comment on the thread.

daleja424
07-24-2008, 10:03 PM
First:
A child reading my post about what I overheard at the gym can infer that I don't think the clips are really going to trade Kamen. Its not just reading chap, its reading and comprehension...3rd grade stuff.
Second: Again, on a thread about money,politics,humanity, and how sport fits in, you have yet to even address the topic.

...But okay lil' baby, you win, i'm a low iq ******(remember when you and your boy dropped that unprovoked comment last week...one of many you all dropped?)...so write your last pouty post and have koopa tuck you in with the cozy satisfaction of knowing that you've won whatever it is you think you've won.
And hey, while your at it furiously typing away with those nimble fingers of yours, maybe you can find the time and thought to actual comment on the thread.

come on. it isnt about winning an losing.

1st... I dont even like Koopa all that much. He gets pissed off to fast on here...although I still read what he has to say without calling him names...

2nd... I didnt get a chance to respond to this post b/c I started reading...and alas I find that someone is being immature...

and when did I drop and unprovoked comment again?
..you started acting like an idiot... so I said you were useless and then put a smiley... it was a joke b/c you were acting dumb. You made a nice post...and then started spouting some stupid stuff...

and Koopa wasnt even in that thread... it was Mister Freeze and Master Mind in there with me...

daleja424
07-24-2008, 10:11 PM
BTW I apologize NBABALLER for ruining your perfectly good thread... I'll try to get back on topic shortly

daleja424
07-24-2008, 10:47 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Money changes people. How can any athlete put the genocide in Darfur behind "doing business" in China? It's one thing not to disrespect the host country and it another thing to be chicken ***t. Where are the Tommie Smiths and John Carloses of our time? I thought the Olympics were about fraternity and cooperation. Is the Olympics the proper forum to make a humanistic statement? Let's see...the whole world will be watching and supporting their own but in the spirit of PEACE. Sounds right to me.

For those of you who like to keep our sporting events de-politicized I argue that it is not a political position to be against genocide. It is a human value that trumps left or right wings, blue or red (or green) affiliations, and even gold, silver or bronze medals.

For shame China. For shame America. And for shame D Wade and company. So much for "NBA cares." All we seem to care about is ourselves. Not other people, not the environment, and certainly not human rights.

Ask yourselves why arguably the most memorable Olympic moments are Jesse Owen winning four golds in Hitler's house proving the worth of all people and not just the Aryan majority. And again in 1968 in the heat of OUR civil rights movement where the Black Power statement admitted to the world our hypocrisy at home. My friends that took balls.

In the internet age where anyone can say what they think to pass on an opportunity when the whole world is captivated by the potential of all mankind is a sad loss.

My question to you all is: Is it a lack of empathy to say nothing on the part of D Wade? Is it ignorance of current events and history that makes him loose perspective? Is it his contractual obligations to his sponsors to not be a pariah? Or are the Olympics simply not the right forum?

After all, talking about 10 year old African girls being gang raped and killed really would be kind of a downer. We really just want to focus on dominating the medal tally and buy the crap they hock during commercial breaks but we might not if we are too busy talking and calling each other and blogging about courage, justice, and compassion because we were inspired by one of our "heroes"... and trade rumors of course what would we do if we couldn't talk about trades?

Well to answer your questions... it is really is a combination of a lot of things...

It has become very clear over the past several years that our "heros" (athletes like wade and others) arent always the most intellegent guys. Some of the things these guys say just make you wonder sometimes. Clearly half of them know nothing of current events or politics (either national or international). That said... I am sure that a guy like D-wade has things he would love to say but he has several other things to consider.

They are also in a tough position as you suggested b/c of sponsor pressure. A guy like D-wade is probably speaking for like 25-30 different groups/originations/corporations every time he opens his mouth...which is a lot of pressure. If ever he says something even remotely controversial he is bound to offend at least one of these groups...so the easiest way for him to avoid problems like these is probably to stay low key and do the Pat Riley and say absolutely nothing while talking on end...

The Olympics have changed. Apparently no one even plays for there country anymore??? We have Africans running for us...while our basketball players play for Russia and Germany and stuff. The Olympics is a JOKE now. Its not about pride and beliefs... its about money and entertainment. While I still enjoy watching the games... they are a far cry from what the were several years ago.

Our president is an idiot. He was the one who said that the Olympics isn't about politics. BULL! You better believe that they are! If there aren't politics involved...why on earth did team USA sleep on a boat with 24-7 military protection last Olympics? Our country seems to be the only one that believe when the Olympics start the rest of our problems and issues cease... b/c they DON'T!

...well i may have strayed off topic a bit... thats my 2 cents...

jgray305
07-25-2008, 01:06 AM
It is not Dwade's or any American athlete's responsibility or obligation, morally or otherwise, to champion a cause abroad. The war in Darfur is not an American issue, and neither is the war in Somalia, Sri Lanka, or Palestine. In every instance, where an American athlete "had balls" their courageous actions had an impact within America. Africa is always well represented in the Olympics, funny, I haven't heard any talk of any African nation boycotting or protesting. Maybe it's because they know that the conflict in Darfur, and other areas of unrest in Africa is only a continuation of tribalism, ethnicism, and religous bigotry that began hundreds, if not thousands of years ago and has no end in sight.

ATX
07-25-2008, 03:58 PM
Aww, did I hurt your feelings... ;-(

what wasn't grown up about the post? Just the part where I infer that you are indeed a conneseiur of mule? Because the rest of both posts is perfectly fine regarding basketball, economics, and social structure (not necessarily right, but fine in the givens of a debatable position).

Funny how you negate not just my two posts, but the posts of everyone else to harp on a little barb. Get some novicane and rub it good cuz you are just all too sensitive

And seriously, speaking of worthless posts, if all you and your butt buddy koopa can say to disparage anything I write is the equivelant of "hey your stupid, you suck, shut up" then perhaps its you that should give it a rest. Im sure our MVP Ricky Davis has a bunion that needs rubbing, get to it...I assume he's not just paying you to prop up his online cred.

ps. ATX!! What happened to your post? it was good and now it's blank?

Ya, I removed it...I have very strong feelings about US foreign policy and of course our own domestic issues...I felt like my post was preachy, and I really didn't want to get into an argument with someone...

noturnormalhero
07-25-2008, 04:04 PM
how the hell did i miss this thread?!? i agree with ATX..my statements and comments on this would sound preachy and would probably cause an arguement or something. i'll remain quiet and keep my thoughts to myself. interesting thread though.

JackSplack
07-25-2008, 04:21 PM
To JGRAY

you are aware that the US is the largest arms seller in the world and the largest arms manufacturer in the world. This is not even counting the black market trade and arms by proxy that US interests propagate. The US was the closest thing to a hegemony we have seen in the past 120years during the 90's and early 2000's. When we sneezed, the world caught a cold. When we turned our backs on a disaster, be it global warming, slave-like work conditions, or genocide, the world turned it's back.
As for Darfur...we are currently fighting a "war against evil, or extremism, or for democracy, or against terrorism anywhere, or whatever they're calling it for the time being." Our nation justifies its actions based on political rhetoric, but this rhetoric is decidedly selective (our greatest allies in the pro-democracy middle-east movement happen to be a Monarchy, a Totalitarian State, a Theocracy, and a Military Dictatorship). What's going on in Darfur is a systematic ethnic cleansing on a genocidal scale, not tribal conflict driven by regional warlords. We interfered in Europe during the 40's, we interfered again during the 90's. Under a different administration we attempted to intervene in Rawanda...why do we not intervene in Darfur?

No, it is not the obligation of high profiled athletes to speak up. It is only their obligation to play at the best of their abilities. But we are not talking about obligation here, we are talking about human decency and the desensitizing effect massive corporate dollars has on it. My boy D-wade didn't just stay silent, he said it was a "business decision." He's being honest, and for that I do not fault him. But he's being honest about a decision he's made on how to view a situation, and that decision is open to critique, which is what we on this thread our doing.

Imagine you make 50K a year. In front of you someone is struck down in a hit and run and is bleeding profusely on the street. You reach for your cellphone to call 911, but one of two guys next to you offers you 50k a year not to make the call and another guy next to you counters and offers you 30k a year to make the call.

The above scenario is similar to what the NBA players face by speaking out. They are not going to lose all of their endorsements, but they probably would take a hit. What they decide, regardless of religious beliefs or public proclamations or PR spin, truly reflects their values. D-Wade and LBJ, they've shown what they truly value, and I am all the more disappointed in them for it. Team USA Basketball is the Richest of all the Olympic athletes, and yet they still put greed for the next sponsorship check over basic morality. When you watch this Olympics and see some gymnast or sprinter speak out, just know that they don't have 13mil/year guaranteed contracts waiting for them back home...and that is true courage and conviction of values.

Well shoot...just call me the Preacher!!

fins08
07-25-2008, 04:47 PM
Fight Fight Fight

daleja424
07-25-2008, 04:49 PM
To JGRAY

you are aware that the US is the largest arms seller in the world and the largest arms manufacturer in the world. This is not even counting the black market trade and arms by proxy that US interests propagate. The US was the closest thing to a hegemony we have seen in the past 120years during the 90's and early 2000's. When we sneezed, the world caught a cold. When we turned our backs on a disaster, be it global warming, slave-like work conditions, or genocide, the world turned it's back.
As for Darfur...we are currently fighting a "war against evil, or extremism, or for democracy, or against terrorism anywhere, or whatever they're calling it for the time being." Our nation justifies its actions based on political rhetoric, but this rhetoric is decidedly selective (our greatest allies in the pro-democracy middle-east movement happen to be a Monarchy, a Totalitarian State, a Theocracy, and a Military Dictatorship). What's going on in Darfur is a systematic ethnic cleansing on a genocidal scale, not tribal conflict driven by regional warlords. We interfered in Europe during the 40's, we interfered again during the 90's. Under a different administration we attempted to intervene in Rawanda...why do we not intervene in Darfur?

No, it is not the obligation of high profiled athletes to speak up. It is only their obligation to play at the best of their abilities. But we are not talking about obligation here, we are talking about human decency and the desensitizing effect massive corporate dollars has on it. My boy D-wade didn't just stay silent, he said it was a "business decision." He's being honest, and for that I do not fault him. But he's being honest about a decision he's made on how to view a situation, and that decision is open to critique, which is what we on this thread our doing.

Imagine you make 50K a year. In front of you someone is struck down in a hit and run and is bleeding profusely on the street. You reach for your cellphone to call 911, but one of two guys next to you offers you 50k a year not to make the call and another guy next to you counters and offers you 30k a year to make the call.

The above scenario is similar to what the NBA players face by speaking out. They are not going to lose all of their endorsements, but they probably would take a hit. What they decide, regardless of religious beliefs or public proclamations or PR spin, truly reflects their values. D-Wade and LBJ, they've shown what they truly value, and I am all the more disappointed in them for it. Team USA Basketball is the Richest of all the Olympic athletes, and yet they still put greed for the next sponsorship check over basic morality. When you watch this Olympics and see some gymnast or sprinter speak out, just know that they don't have 13mil/year guaranteed contracts waiting for them back home...and that is true courage and conviction of values.

Well shoot...just call me the Preacher!!

:nod::nod::nod::worthy::worthy:

without the extra tidbits, like you threw in yesterday, I actually read it...and wow...great post man. You really did hit the nail on the head! :clap:

IMO though...it is easier for Americans as a whole to ignore the ugly in the world and focus on the positives. I, for example, would much rather discuss a D-Wade dunk than the struggles that are going on around the world. This is not b/c I don't care or am blind to these struggles...but b/c it is easier. But this thread has really made me think about the Olympics...and you guys are right... Somebody needs to grow some balls and speak out!

Master Mind
07-25-2008, 05:11 PM
To JGRAY

you are aware that the US is the largest arms seller in the world and the largest arms manufacturer in the world. This is not even counting the black market trade and arms by proxy that US interests propagate. The US was the closest thing to a hegemony we have seen in the past 120years during the 90's and early 2000's. When we sneezed, the world caught a cold. When we turned our backs on a disaster, be it global warming, slave-like work conditions, or genocide, the world turned it's back.
As for Darfur...we are currently fighting a "war against evil, or extremism, or for democracy, or against terrorism anywhere, or whatever they're calling it for the time being." Our nation justifies its actions based on political rhetoric, but this rhetoric is decidedly selective (our greatest allies in the pro-democracy middle-east movement happen to be a Monarchy, a Totalitarian State, a Theocracy, and a Military Dictatorship). What's going on in Darfur is a systematic ethnic cleansing on a genocidal scale, not tribal conflict driven by regional warlords. We interfered in Europe during the 40's, we interfered again during the 90's. Under a different administration we attempted to intervene in Rawanda...why do we not intervene in Darfur?

No, it is not the obligation of high profiled athletes to speak up. It is only their obligation to play at the best of their abilities. But we are not talking about obligation here, we are talking about human decency and the desensitizing effect massive corporate dollars has on it. My boy D-wade didn't just stay silent, he said it was a "business decision." He's being honest, and for that I do not fault him. But he's being honest about a decision he's made on how to view a situation, and that decision is open to critique, which is what we on this thread our doing.

Imagine you make 50K a year. In front of you someone is struck down in a hit and run and is bleeding profusely on the street. You reach for your cellphone to call 911, but one of two guys next to you offers you 50k a year not to make the call and another guy next to you counters and offers you 30k a year to make the call.

The above scenario is similar to what the NBA players face by speaking out. They are not going to lose all of their endorsements, but they probably would take a hit. What they decide, regardless of religious beliefs or public proclamations or PR spin, truly reflects their values. D-Wade and LBJ, they've shown what they truly value, and I am all the more disappointed in them for it. Team USA Basketball is the Richest of all the Olympic athletes, and yet they still put greed for the next sponsorship check over basic morality. When you watch this Olympics and see some gymnast or sprinter speak out, just know that they don't have 13mil/year guaranteed contracts waiting for them back home...and that is true courage and conviction of values.

Well shoot...just call me the Preacher!!

Take a bow Jack :bow:...:clap::clap::clap: This is your best post and probably one of the best posts i've read on PSD, it's bigger than sports and it goes beyond how we think as a society. So here's to you :cheers:

jgray305
07-25-2008, 05:44 PM
In my opinion, America should never go to war, intervene, play the roll of peacekeepers, or shed one drop of blood unless we, or our allies, are directly threatened. Black Hawk Down should be a reminder to us all, of what happens to well intentioned superpowers, who try to be the policemen to the world. No good deed goes unpunished.

The wanton use of the word courage, drastically dilutes the true meaning. Simply commenting on a world event in no way passes muster in terms of courage. Those guys who ran up the towers while everybody ran down had courage. Giving up an NFL career and enlisting because you felt it was the right thing to do, to put yourself in harms way, takes courage. Talk is cheap. Reminds me of the people who "proudly supported the war in Iraq," up until there was rumblings of a draft.

Darfur is not considered genocide by the UN, and they are correct. There is no policy of genocide being implemented by Sudan. It is about warring factions fighting over land, water, class discrimination and so on. The resulting travesties should be characterized as war crimes. Somebody wins and unfortunately somebody has to lose. A hundred years from now they'll still have beef, so why should my son, or my brother die for that?

Master Mind
07-25-2008, 05:56 PM
In my opinion, America should never go to war, intervene, play the roll of peacekeepers, or shed one drop of blood unless we, or our allies, are directly threatened. Black Hawk Down should be a reminder to us all, of what happens to well intentioned superpowers, who try to be the policemen to the world. No good deed goes unpunished.

The wanton use of the word courage, drastically dilutes the true meaning. Simply commenting on a world event in no way passes muster in terms of courage. Those guys who ran up the towers while everybody ran down had courage. Giving up an NFL career and enlisting because you felt it was the right thing to do, to put yourself in harms way, takes courage. Talk is cheap. Reminds me of the people who "proudly supported the war in Iraq," up until there was rumblings of a draft.

Darfur is not considered genocide by the UN, and they are correct. There is no policy of genocide being implemented by Sudan. It is about warring factions fighting over land, water, class discrimination and so on. The resulting travesties should be characterized as war crimes. Somebody wins and unfortunately somebody has to lose. A hundred years from now they'll still have beef, so why should my son, or my brother die for that?

You made great points jgray!!!...You guys are really deep...:clap::clap::clap: Here's to you as well...:cheers:

Master Mind
07-25-2008, 06:00 PM
^^^Our forum has to have the most intelligent posters on PSD...:cool:

JackSplack
07-25-2008, 06:44 PM
In my opinion, America should never go to war, intervene, play the roll of peacekeepers, or shed one drop of blood unless we, or our allies, are directly threatened. Black Hawk Down should be a reminder to us all, of what happens to well intentioned superpowers, who try to be the policemen to the world. No good deed goes unpunished.

The wanton use of the word courage, drastically dilutes the true meaning. Simply commenting on a world event in no way passes muster in terms of courage. Those guys who ran up the towers while everybody ran down had courage. Giving up an NFL career and enlisting because you felt it was the right thing to do, to put yourself in harms way, takes courage. Talk is cheap. Reminds me of the people who "proudly supported the war in Iraq," up until there was rumblings of a draft.

Darfur is not considered genocide by the UN, and they are correct. There is no policy of genocide being implemented by Sudan. It is about warring factions fighting over land, water, class discrimination and so on. The resulting travesties should be characterized as war crimes. Somebody wins and unfortunately somebody has to lose. A hundred years from now they'll still have beef, so why should my son, or my brother die for that?

Fair enough about why America should not just go willy nilly and jump into every conflict, and fair enough on words not necessarily equating courage. But in the case of High-Profiled Amateur Athletes risking the only big payday they're going to get to speak out against atrocities...well that is courage. They are putting at risk their future livelyhood, and that of their family for potentially generations to come to stand up and make a statement on one of the biggest of world stages. Words, and the forum they are spoken can absolutely constitute courage and conviction. In the case of the Olympics, it is not just the athletes words, but the athletes actions in speaking those words that makes it courageous. Those men who put their fists up at the medal ceremony years ago were not giving a Vogue interview, they were expressing their beliefs right at the moment when all the world was watching.
Regarding the "UN" definition of Darfur being a genocide, this is mainly a PR game in symantics...First they said it was, then US pressure forced them to say it wasn't, and that was years ago, since then the deaths have increased greatly.
Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, the world is within the US's dominion, that is the responsibility that comes with being a Superpower. War is just one tool a Superpower wields.
Unlike the eighties when the US fought the Russians by proxy in Afghanistan, or when Iraq fought Iran for us, we have decided not to intervene directly or indirectly in Darfur and have pressured those other nations that may intervene, both directly and indirectly, not to as well.
There is a substance that is primarily only found in the Sudan, it is called gum arabic. It is a critical ingredient in Cola Drinks, the most widely consumed processed beverage in the world, and which is manufactured and distributed primarily by US companies and their subsidiaries and partners. The Sudanese government has said that they will effectively cut off their output if there is substantiall interference in what is going on there. This may seem insignificant, but it represents Hundreds of Billions of Dollars in goods. This is only one piece of the intricate intertwined dynamic that is our world economy and how it relates to politics and conflict in Darfur, and it is probably not even the most significant piece. China, our Olympic host, supplies the majority of the weapons currently being used to carry out and enforce this non-genocide genocide in Darfur. To interfere in Darfur would be to interfere with China's weapons revenue.
Currently Uzbekistan is our ally, a country where their leader publically brags about boiling his political dissenters alive. Would you be alright with the US sending our troops to defend his government since they are an ally? Would it be more palatable if our young men and women spilled their blood fighting for his cause? The concept of Human Rights supersedes nations and states, allies and enemies. It is a universal belief and doctrine that the founders of our nation believed in and supported as they moved away from tyranny and towards representative democracy (slavery and women took a while though didn't it).
As the world has grown smaller and more interlaced, America has been the Avatar of life and liberty. It is one of our greatest virtues, and it is what drove so many diverse immigrant cultures to our shores be them Irish, Cuban, German, Indian, Italian, Chinese, Russian, and on and on.
Todays Olympics represents a shift to a world not governed by leaders, not striving for the betterment of humanity, but of the Global Corporate Machine, and the Global Corporate Machine has no morals, no ethics, no obligation to citizens or people, to nations or states. This is not an inevitability, but an ongoing trend. These Athletes, particularly these wealthy financially secure athletes, have no obligation to speak out, but they have no obligation not to speak out either.

Besides, these athletes we are discussing are already millionaires. If they want more money, get it from other sources of revenue than sports or image related products and endorsements. Stop with the record labels and the clothing lines and the perfumes all named after yourself. When was the last time you saw Magic Johnson hocking shoes? Or Keyshawn Johnson selling jerseys? These guys (and it must be a Johnson thing) took the money they made from sports and image branding and then DIVERSIFIED their income by making businesses decisions that were not dependent on their public image...just like real businessmen. Nothing makes money faster and easier than money (except an endorsement check apparently).

King Koopa
07-25-2008, 07:26 PM
It's not a question of ignorance or contracts, it's just ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!!

Jordan said it best when he said "Republicans buy shoes too."

Endorsements are the stupidist thing in sports. Drink Pepsi because Shaq drinks Pepsi....does Shaq like Pepsi? Who cares, they paid him more than Coke!!!

The only compesation for endorsements should be free stuff. if you like Cheeto's, endorse cheetos, and then get a lifetime supply of Cheeto's!

Screw Okafor, Lets trade Haslem and Cook for Kamen!!!!

Koopa sucks serious aaaaaaaaaass
Daleja tambien!

Wow and i thought i was crazy lol, waz up with that...... What ever i dont pay attention to people who dont know anything about Basketball.

fins08
07-25-2008, 07:27 PM
That was a long post, someone tell me how well written it was cuz I don't have time to read that.

NBABALLERHOLLER
07-25-2008, 08:20 PM
Okay I just read the thread since I started it yesterday and I see we have been busy little bees. Some thoughts:

First, I don't think that discussing your personal opinions about politics, economics, and philosophy in relation to my central thesis is "preachy." Frankly, who isn't preachy in some way? Some people call it preachy to suggest that we should hold athletes to higher moral standard just like some people would call it preachy to go on an on (and on) about how Shaq's, or Marbury's or Kwame's and even D Wade's ***t doesn't stink.

I hate to call it cowardly because I don't want to offend anyone and discourage free thinking, but let's agree it is a cop out. If you can't muster the resolve to be honest on a sports blog then maybe you should re-examine your true reasons for holding back instead of hiding behind the the dreaded label "preachy." I mean we are totally incognito and people are still afraid to submit their ideas. IDEAS. That's all.

Second: You dudes fighting and making up are sooooo gay. Which is fine, but you are totally gay. You should be proud. I know I am proud of you.

Third: Some of you tend to ramble off topic which is fine but I was generally pleased with many of the responses. I feel that some of you subscribe to the belief that if a sports athlete is going to be elevated to a hero status and serve as an example for children, then perhaps we need to say,"Hey wait a second. Is this how we want our kids and younger siblings-ney, the future of humanity- to be taught?" I know I do.

Do we want to transform the archetype of the athlete that is symbolic of his region, people, culture, and beliefs and replace it with Donald Trump clones? I posted this thread to discuss higher minded values and not so much to discuss American neocolonialism or Bush imperialism. Not that I minded reading some of it and I found myself sighing from time to time over some of your fearful, guarded responses and chuckling over your latent, homo-erotic banter (I think I see a love triangle between Jack, Koopa and Deja).

All in all it was a nice change of pace. And if you don't understand why what affects people in Darfur affect us you are either not paying attention or you are woefully unfamiliar with world history. Sorry if that sounded preachy.

Oh crap Team USA is on ESPN. Later y'all.

King Koopa
07-26-2008, 01:50 PM
come on. it isnt about winning an losing.

1st... I dont even like Koopa all that much. He gets pissed off to fast on here...although I still read what he has to say without calling him names...



and Koopa wasnt even in that thread... it was Mister Freeze and Master Mind in there with me...

Wow nice to know most of the people in this site hate me, even my own heat fans but whatever cant really do much about that. And what are you talking about man????

Is there anyone out there that likes me.......... =(

daleja424
07-26-2008, 04:15 PM
Wow nice to know most of the people in this site hate me, even my own heat fans but whatever cant really do much about that. And what are you talking about man????

Is there anyone out there that likes me.......... =(

haha... I dont dislike you... he just made it sound like me and you were like always agreeing and buddy buddy and stuff man... b/c earlier in the week me and Master Mind teamed up on him a little bit and he got you two confused... thats all...

but you must admit you get pretty heated with bulls fans...:clap:

King Koopa
07-26-2008, 05:10 PM
haha... I dont dislike you... he just made it sound like me and you were like always agreeing and buddy buddy and stuff man... b/c earlier in the week me and Master Mind teamed up on him a little bit and he got you two confused... thats all...

but you must admit you get pretty heated with bulls fans...:clap:

Yeah i do but what can i say.... I like fighting with them. :D:D:D

daleja424
07-26-2008, 06:11 PM
Yeah i do but what can i say.... I like fighting with them. :D:D:D

and I love to watch you fight with them!!! Its entertaining...

Storch
07-26-2008, 06:12 PM
lets get ready to rumbleeeeeeeee! lol :box: :box: