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moneyball
07-24-2008, 06:06 AM
Is there anyone who does not see that Lowrie is a better defensive SS than Lugo? Lowrie has made several plays both to his backhand and up the middle that Lugo would never have touched. His throwing arm is both stronger and more accurate. We have seen a small sample, but range, arm strength and accuracy do not come and go. A player has them or he doesn't. Lugo has shown limited range, below average arm and erratic accuracy. FO needs to bite bullet on his salary and move on.

lil'papi
07-24-2008, 08:53 AM
UM, they had him at SS all through the minors you think maybe they know he is ok there. The scribes keep saying he isn't the answer longterm, but I'm doubting their instincts on him.

He is a steady eddy. After Lugo it's hard not to like him.

RedSoxtober
07-24-2008, 08:53 AM
Lugo has historically shown great range. Check his RF at only SS and he's in the 4.6-4.8 range. His problem has always been throwing accuracy.

That said, he's down to 3.7 this year and Lowrie is at 4.28 in his limited time up, so you're dead on with what we're seeing right now. I don't know if the declining range is a function of wanting to get better set for throws (what Alicea worked with him on) or what, but it flat out sucks.

After a two year trial I think we can safely say that he never hit at Fenway as RS the way he did when he played with TBR. It is time to move on if we can find a way.

Bronx77
07-24-2008, 09:17 AM
Is there anyone who does not see that Lowrie is a better defensive SS than Lugo? Lowrie has made several plays both to his backhand and up the middle that Lugo would never have touched. His throwing arm is both stronger and more accurate. We have seen a small sample, but range, arm strength and accuracy do not come and go. A player has them or he doesn't. Lugo has shown limited range, below average arm and erratic accuracy. FO needs to bite bullet on his salary and move on.

You guys are paying LUGO $9 million a year.... i dont see even the red sox biting the bullet on that, but i mean, you guys won a world series with the guy, so you cant be that unhappy can you??.... I do think its a shame you gave him 4 years, because i like lowrie and would like to see him play... but I think you see Lugo there until atleast the start of next season, then maybe they cut ties.

However, you cant get too excited too quickly.. plenty of players have show promise in short debuts and never panned out... Some have showed nothing and did... its still a flip of a coin at this level.... i mean look at Pedroia, he wasnt hitting when the Sox gave him the starting job, everyone including Francona wanted him sent down... he was told stick with him and you saw what happened. Lugo is a proven major leaguer. You dont knwo what yoru going to get with Lowrie, and are you ready to bite that bullet with 60 games left in a season that you are not gaurenteed to make the playoffs in???

lil'papi
07-24-2008, 09:37 AM
You guys are paying LUGO $9 million a year.... i dont see even the red sox biting the bullet on that, but i mean, you guys won a world series with the guy, so you cant be that unhappy can you??.... I do think its a shame you gave him 4 years, because i like lowrie and would like to see him play... but I think you see Lugo there until atleast the start of next season, then maybe they cut ties.

However, you cant get too excited too quickly.. plenty of players have show promise in short debuts and never panned out... Some have showed nothing and did... its still a flip of a coin at this level.... i mean look at Pedroia, he wasnt hitting when the Sox gave him the starting job, everyone including Francona wanted him sent down... he was told stick with him and you saw what happened. Lugo is a proven major leaguer. You dont knwo what yoru going to get with Lowrie, and are you ready to bite that bullet with 60 games left in a season that you are not gaurenteed to make the playoffs in???

We didn't trade Lugo, people here have no influence on playing Lowrie over Lugo either. Some might think so....

Lowrie has been scouted well in the minors he is a steady guy with a good stick. We don't need spectacular range just make routine plays that Lugo was NOT making. He just needs to do this till Lugo is an option again. BUT, if he performs I get an inkling Lugo's injury will linger.

Lowrie is being tested for longterm use. So far , so good. You contradict yourself BTW. You said we won with Lugo correct? He was awful AB and ok in the field last year. Lowrie can hit and at worst is OK in the field. How did we get worse with Lowrie? IMO we got better, so our chances improve as long as he makes the plays.

Lost me there.....


Another plus is Lowrie is a switch hitter.......we have a nice R/L combo with him.

Pedroia has hit the cover off the ball since birth. He was more of a no brainer.....plus it was early in the year. (we had time)
Cora also got hot and Pedy worked his way out of it. He will be fine for the next ten years they can now trade anyone in the system that play 2b.:D

Tragedy
07-24-2008, 09:47 AM
Lowrie handles SS a lot better than what scouts say about him. I personally see him as a long term fix at this position, though I believe in time, he'll be part of a package for something in the offseason.

He's a good player. It'll be a shame if/when they trade him.

Tankjeep
07-24-2008, 12:27 PM
i've never been a big lugo fan....so i hope lowrie becomes the main guy soon, but who am i.....just a fan that doesn't know half what i think i do.

GrkGawdofWalkz
07-24-2008, 12:40 PM
Oscar Tejeda, I wish you could be ready. Or any other guy not named lugo. Lowrie is fine. If they get Uribe, wow.

BTownTeamsRKing
07-24-2008, 12:59 PM
lugo sucks. i cant bring up 1 good point on why he should play instead of Lowrie. as someone else said, im just a fan, but i can see that....lugo sucks. we pinch hit and replace him defensively, wat good is he? he wouldnt play if he wasnt gettin paid soo much money.

when Ortiz comes back friday, our line up will have only one dead spot in Tek.

Ells, Pedroia, Ortiz, Manny, Drew, Lowell, Youk, Tek, Lowrie

that line up is redic.

asomen
07-24-2008, 02:10 PM
I would loveeee for whoever says Lowrie isn't the long term answer to explain themselves and give a reason why.

If you look throught the whole league....i would say 3/4 of shortstops hit under .250 and have no power. Yeah you have Jeter, Reyes, Rollins, hanley ramirez, and tejada. After that...production drops off alot. If you can find a shortstop that can field his position...and hit .300 and drive in around 70-80 runs in a season...

that sure as hell better be our future shortstop. unless we can miraculously find one of the guys like a jose reyes and jimmy rollins or get hanley back.....who else do you think will fill this void??? I will take a guy who can hit .300(Lowrie) than a guy who can hit 20-25 homeruns and hit .220 (Uribe).

When it comes time for that clutch hit...put the bat in a guy who hits for average. Not a guy that needs a prayer from god to put the bat on the ball.

RedSoxtober
07-24-2008, 04:38 PM
I would loveeee for whoever says Lowrie isn't the long term answer to explain themselves and give a reason why.

If you look throught the whole league....i would say 3/4 of shortstops hit under .250 and have no power. Yeah you have Jeter, Reyes, Rollins, hanley ramirez, and tejada. After that...production drops off alot. If you can find a shortstop that can field his position...and hit .300 and drive in around 70-80 runs in a season...

that sure as hell better be our future shortstop. unless we can miraculously find one of the guys like a jose reyes and jimmy rollins or get hanley back.....who else do you think will fill this void??? I will take a guy who can hit .300(Lowrie) than a guy who can hit 20-25 homeruns and hit .220 (Uribe).

When it comes time for that clutch hit...put the bat in a guy who hits for average. Not a guy that needs a prayer from god to put the bat on the ball.

1. The knock on Lowrie is his size; he's not in the Eckstein category but is compared to him along those lines.

2. Because we have more highly regarded prospects at SS. Argenis Diaz is amazing in the field and has similar offensive numbers to those that Lowrie put up as he ascended through the system. While they're still quite raw there's also Dent and Tejeda. Lowrie is a solid ballplayer and I like him a lot but I think some of the guys behind him have a higher ceiling.

kazzy4080
07-24-2008, 08:07 PM
im fine with someone inside the organization coming up and taking lowries position eventually, but right now i think lowrie should play over lugo, and i think hes our answer until someone else steps up, there should be no need for the front office to go out and get a guy when we can just keep lowrie who will be cheap, if dent or tejeda eventually come up and do better play them, but no more bringing anyone from the outside in. problem is what to do with lugo...

The Intimidator
07-24-2008, 10:25 PM
Lowrie isn't the most gifted player in terms of size, range, or arm strength, but he makes due with what he has. He makes plays on the balls that he can get to, and seems to have a really good feel for the position. Some have projected him as a third baseman down the line, and even compared him to old friend Billy Mueller, but for now, let's just enjoy watching him play a solid shortstop.

lil'papi
07-25-2008, 10:05 AM
6'0" 185 Lowrie.....

Eckstein? He is about 5'7" 165.... O'Cab 5'11" 165.......Nomar 6'0" 165.....Lowries size is perfect IMO.

That's five inches and 15-20 lbs on a youngster. He will get stronger also. No comparo.

Knock on Lowrie was range. He also doesn't have pop to play 3rd. He can play defense there but his bat won't produce 20-25 dingers.

What I love about him is he doesn't look scared or overwhelmed he looks like he belongs. I could not agree more if he hits .280-.300 and fields his position it gives us time to get guys in minors ready.

No reason to just give Lugo his spot back , but we need to see Lowrie alot more than we have to determine anything.

Longterm he would make a super Cora replacement. Excellent utility guy....at worst.

I watched the kid from AA Portland he has the tools defensively , no doubts.
We need to see him improve offensively.

asomen
07-25-2008, 01:48 PM
Maybe it's just me...but he seems like Dustin Pedroia when he came up. The first year he came up (not considered his rookie season because he came up 2/3 the way through the year) everyone questioned him. Even his rookie season last year, people always wondered if pedroia could hold his own...

if you guys remember last year him and cora split because he struggled early and people were ready to throw in the towel. He ends up being the rookie of the year and one of the best second basemen in the MLB.

What I am trying to say is that Lowrie gives me the same kind of confidence Pedroia gave me when he came in. He has that swager to him like he belongs there. Lugo never looked that confident at SS or at the plate. I think Lowrie is a bit bigger version of pedroia with a little less of a violent swing if you ask me.

ThreeIfBaerga
07-25-2008, 02:14 PM
He can have all the swagger in the world, but if he can't swagger his way to a ball up the middle then he shouldn't be playing every day shortstop for this team. Trust me, I love Lowrie, I really do. I was his biggest proponent before the 05 draft and was absolutely thrilled when he was picked.

However, most scouting reports at the time said he couldn't handle playing a big league SS. Some since then have said he can be an average MLB SS, but until I've seen him play on a consistent basis I can't be comfortable with him playing the position for a team with World Champion aspirations.

Tankjeep
07-25-2008, 06:29 PM
i don't mean to reminisce too much, but why in the h e l l did we give up orlando cabrera? sorry, i had a minor spasm....

back to your regularly scheduled programming....


lugo sucks butt. the only clutch he knows is in his car, and that's even if he drives stick.

Lord Byron 34
07-27-2008, 11:23 PM
Isn't it a bit ironic that this thread way started by someone with the username "moneyball"?

97'bulls
07-27-2008, 11:27 PM
I love Lowrie... He'll probably start next yearm