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View Full Version : Another Trade Idea with Charlotte



Tisoykeis
07-23-2008, 07:37 PM
With this trade, the Jazz finally get the interior defensive presence they have been lacking and makes them a true contender for the title.

Jazz Get:
Okafor $7,082,635
Wallace $8,287,500
TOTAL SALARY: $15,370,135


Charlotte gets:
Boozer $11,593,817
Jaron Collins $2,074,302
Brevin Knight $2,000,000
TOTAL SALARY: $15,668,119

Of course this trade is dependant on both teams signing key pieces to long term extensions. But it does make sense with Boozer going back to North Carolina where he played College Ball and the Jazz would be getting two quality players for Boozer rather than just letting him walk after next season. The Jazz would also get much better defensivley.

PG Williams/Price
SG Wallace/Brewer/Almond
SF Kirilenko/Harpring/Korver
PF Okafur/Milsap/Kirilenko
C Okur/Okafur/Fesenko

JAZZNC
07-23-2008, 07:46 PM
I don't really like that trade for the sole reason that AK and Wallace play the same position.I think that we'd still be way too guard/SF heavy on the roster and would not have an offensive presence down low. Okafur isn't half the offensive player that Boozer is and is waaaaaaay more injury prone so far in his career.

jimbobjarree
07-23-2008, 10:50 PM
if boozer really is set to go this deal is good, but if boozer sends us any indication of signing for the long term we should explore that option, especialy with millsap behind him

Lo Porto
07-25-2008, 10:21 AM
We need to keep Boozer. I'd trade AK, Okur, and next year's 2nd rounder for Wallace and Okafor after Okafor signs an extention for about $10 a year as expected. That would end up looking like this:

Charlotte gets:
Okur - $8.5 million
AK - $15.1 million
2009 2nd rounder

Utah gets:
Wallace $9.5 million
Okafor $10 million

This trade barely works financially. Charlotte might jump on this considering that Okur won a title under Larry Brown and Charlotte is a team that needs defense badly. If Okafor won't stay in Charlotte, then trade him to get a good defender in return (AK). Utah would save money in this trade over the course of the next 2 years when money is the tightest. I'd take this...

bw2893
07-25-2008, 10:56 AM
I think AK and Wallace would play really well together. AK could easily play PF with Wallace at SF, which would create a fast, high-scoring potential duo. I've seen Wallace play and he would actually mesh really well with AK. Wallace is also small enough to play SG at any time, which would create a dominating line-up with Will, Wallace, AK, Okafur, and Okur...yeah, that's championship contention right there.

I like, however, Lo Porto's idea with getting Wallace and Okafur for Okur, AK, and 2nd round, but can Okafur play the C effectivley? I don't know if I would be totally conviced of that one. But still, having Will, Brewer, Wallace, Boozer, and Okafur doesn't look bad at all written.

Lo Porto
07-25-2008, 12:53 PM
I really don't like the idea of Kirilenko at the PF for us. He got great stats like that in the past, but we didn't win. I think Gerald is past the days when he could play SG for all that long. He's the perfect mold at 3 anyway being that he is quick and can drive, post and shoot. Having him and Boozer in the same lineup will give us a lot of post options especially since both can shoot decently from mid-range. Okafor can definitely play center. He would be a perfect compliment to a guy like Boozer on the defensive end.

bw2893
07-25-2008, 01:18 PM
"I really don't like the idea of Kirilenko at the PF for us. He got great stats like that in the past, but we didn't win. I think Gerald is past the days when he could play SG for all that long. He's the perfect mold at 3 anyway being that he is quick and can drive, post and shoot. Having him and Boozer in the same lineup will give us a lot of post options especially since both can shoot decently from mid-range. Okafor can definitely play center. He would be a perfect compliment to a guy like Boozer on the defensive end."

Alright, I don't argue with that. The question is would Charlotte pull the trigger on this one? If you compare players Okur and Okafur, it's easy who the more skilled player is. Okur does have a deadly outside shot, but is that enough to give up all their inside presense in Okafur? AK for Wallace? Wallace is a better player just about all around with the exception on defense. My point is, I don't know if Okur, AK, and a 2nd round would be enough for Charlotte to feel good about it. I don't know how the contracts would work, but we might have to throw in someone or something else for this deal to work. I do like it a lot though..

JAZZNC
07-25-2008, 06:20 PM
"I really don't like the idea of Kirilenko at the PF for us. He got great stats like that in the past, but we didn't win. I think Gerald is past the days when he could play SG for all that long. He's the perfect mold at 3 anyway being that he is quick and can drive, post and shoot. Having him and Boozer in the same lineup will give us a lot of post options especially since both can shoot decently from mid-range. Okafor can definitely play center. He would be a perfect compliment to a guy like Boozer on the defensive end."

Alright, I don't argue with that. The question is would Charlotte pull the trigger on this one? If you compare players Okur and Okafur, it's easy who the more skilled player is. Okur does have a deadly outside shot, but is that enough to give up all their inside presense in Okafur? AK for Wallace? Wallace is a better player just about all around with the exception on defense. My point is, I don't know if Okur, AK, and a 2nd round would be enough for Charlotte to feel good about it. I don't know how the contracts would work, but we might have to throw in someone or something else for this deal to work. I do like it a lot though..
I personally think that Okur is a much better player than Okafur, much better. Okur was an All-Star last year and hasn't missed but a handful of games in the past four seasons. Remember too, it's easy to put up stats on a complete garbage team and he only averaged 13.8pts per game, that's simply not going to get it done. Okur put up better numbers and he was a third and at times fourth option. Okur is the much better player of the two. The only aspect that Okafur has on Okur is help D.

Tisoykeis
07-26-2008, 09:45 AM
I personally think that Okur is a much better player than Okafur, much better. Okur was an All-Star last year and hasn't missed but a handful of games in the past four seasons. Remember too, it's easy to put up stats on a complete garbage team and he only averaged 13.8pts per game, that's simply not going to get it done. Okur put up better numbers and he was a third and at times fourth option. Okur is the much better player of the two. The only aspect that Okafur has on Okur is help D.

I would argue that it is easier for Okur to get his numbers on the Jazz because the other team has to be worried about D-Will, Boozer, Korver, and a number of other players....the Jazz have 6 people averaging in double digits. In Charlotte, Okafor doesn't have that luxury as he is the only inside presence they really have.

I would also argue that if Okafor had the luxury of playing in the Jazz system with a great PG like D-WIll, his scoring average would go up a few points to where he would be close to a 18-11 player each night. And he is a much better defender the Okur and Boozer for that matter and Defense is a huge piece of the Jazz title puzzle that has been missing for years. To be Honest, the only thing Okur does better than Okafor is shoot the outside shot....Okafor has an equally good low post offensive game, rebounds better, and plays better man and help defense.

bw2893
07-26-2008, 11:44 AM
"I personally think that Okur is a much better player than Okafur, much better. Okur was an All-Star last year and hasn't missed but a handful of games in the past four seasons. Remember too, it's easy to put up stats on a complete garbage team and he only averaged 13.8pts per game, that's simply not going to get it done. Okur put up better numbers and he was a third and at times fourth option. Okur is the much better player of the two. The only aspect that Okafur has on Okur is help D."

Okur compared to Okafur has been blessed in that he has been able to play along side D-Wil and others who pretty much set his game up. He is an all-star in large part due to the players around him, not so much his individual talent and skills. I agree with Tisoykeis that Okafur has had to bite and scratch his numbers since the beginning due to not playing on near as much talent as the jazz have. Put Okafur in Okur's spot and you will get not only a better rebounder and blocker (as he his already), but you will get better stats in all categories minus 3pt shooting, which is worth losing compared to what the jazz would gain. I like Okur and what he brings to the court, but simply put: Okafur is better.

Rylz
07-26-2008, 01:20 PM
I agree that Okur is better than Okafor. It's far easier to put up points on a bad team (see Kirilenko in the post Stockton/Malone power vacuum compared to now.) I'd stick with Okur. He started to add a new element to his game near the end of this season. If he can perfect that during the summer, the investment will be well worth it.

bw2893
07-26-2008, 05:18 PM
"It's far easier to put up points on a bad team (see Kirilenko in the post Stockton/Malone power vacuum compared to now.")

I can't completely agree with that. You say it's easier to put points up with a bad team, but then the opposing team is obviously going to put more pressure on that player and less on the rest of the team. Where as a team like Utah, pressure has to be spread across the floor. Okafur takes the front court by himself, resulting in more pressure from opposing teams defensively than what Okur has to deal with being with Boozer on the floor. Okur did have an awakening in the playoffs though, so if the jazz keep him, it would be nice if that stuck.

Storch
07-26-2008, 07:08 PM
AK cant play the powerforward well. He's too weak. Teams with strong post players like the suns, raptors, and spurs could potentially destroy them.

Bobcats would be getting the short end of the deal by trading away two key players in their starting five for only boozer. It would make the cats even worse. In addition, theyre both young guys that can play the game.

Bad trade.

bw2893
07-26-2008, 11:30 PM
Well someone's gotta lose a little right? Me being a jazz fan, it would be ok to have charlotte get the short end of that stick. jk

JAZZNC
07-27-2008, 03:27 AM
"I personally think that Okur is a much better player than Okafur, much better. Okur was an All-Star last year and hasn't missed but a handful of games in the past four seasons. Remember too, it's easy to put up stats on a complete garbage team and he only averaged 13.8pts per game, that's simply not going to get it done. Okur put up better numbers and he was a third and at times fourth option. Okur is the much better player of the two. The only aspect that Okafur has on Okur is help D."

Okur compared to Okafur has been blessed in that he has been able to play along side D-Wil and others who pretty much set his game up. He is an all-star in large part due to the players around him, not so much his individual talent and skills. I agree with Tisoykeis that Okafur has had to bite and scratch his numbers since the beginning due to not playing on near as much talent as the jazz have. Put Okafur in Okur's spot and you will get not only a better rebounder and blocker (as he his already), but you will get better stats in all categories minus 3pt shooting, which is worth losing compared to what the jazz would gain. I like Okur and what he brings to the court, but simply put: Okafur is better.

I just don't believe for a second that Okafur is better. He is nowhere near as skilled on the offensive end of the court. He's not a better rebounder either. Okur is on a team where everyone rebounds and he still gets about 8 per game when he's healthy. I wouldn't trade Okur for Okafur but that's just me. I think that Okur is much better than people give him credit for being. I really think that he's a top 10 center in the league easily.

bw2893
07-27-2008, 08:35 AM
"I just don't believe for a second that Okafur is better. He is nowhere near as skilled on the offensive end of the court. He's not a better rebounder either. Okur is on a team where everyone rebounds and he still gets about 8 per game when he's healthy. I wouldn't trade Okur for Okafur but that's just me. I think that Okur is much better than people give him credit for being. I really think that he's a top 10 center in the league easily."

I wouldn't say anyone is argueing that Okur isn't one of the top C's in the league. Wha'ts being said is that the Jazz need a different type of center who will fill the major gaps that need to be filled. The main three being: defensive presense down low (Okafur is the obvious choice), blocks per game, (again, Okafur the obvious choice), and rebounds per game (Okafur averages almost 11, Okur barely 8).

I think those are the major gaps many jazz fans see in the jazz's low post game, which Okur simply doesn't fill. And in my opinion, the jazz should be more worried about creating defense with rebounds and blocked shots, than getting the C to the three point line. I definitley disagree with your rebound comment. Okafur out rebounds Okur every game. And offensivley? They are almost literally exactly the same player per game, so saying Okur is much better offensivley simply isn't true.

JAZZNC
07-27-2008, 11:26 AM
"I just don't believe for a second that Okafur is better. He is nowhere near as skilled on the offensive end of the court. He's not a better rebounder either. Okur is on a team where everyone rebounds and he still gets about 8 per game when he's healthy. I wouldn't trade Okur for Okafur but that's just me. I think that Okur is much better than people give him credit for being. I really think that he's a top 10 center in the league easily."

I wouldn't say anyone is argueing that Okur isn't one of the top C's in the league. Wha'ts being said is that the Jazz need a different type of center who will fill the major gaps that need to be filled. The main three being: defensive presense down low (Okafur is the obvious choice), blocks per game, (again, Okafur the obvious choice), and rebounds per game (Okafur averages almost 11, Okur barely 8).

I think those are the major gaps many jazz fans see in the jazz's low post game, which Okur simply doesn't fill. And in my opinion, the jazz should be more worried about creating defense with rebounds and blocked shots, than getting the C to the three point line. I definitley disagree with your rebound comment. Okafur out rebounds Okur every game. And offensivley? They are almost literally exactly the same player per game, so saying Okur is much better offensivley simply isn't true.

Actually it is. Has Okafur ever averaged 18pts per game? Nope, especially not as the third option. Hell he couldn't even get to 14 as the number 1/2 option. I mean he's their only low post option and he can only get you 13pts per game? What's he going to do when he's the third? I also just don't think that Okafur is that much better of a rebounder. Okafur doesn't have a guy in the post next to him averaging over 10rebs per game either. I seriously doubt that Okafur would average double digit rebounds per game with Boozer right next to him.

bw2893
07-27-2008, 12:04 PM
"Actually it is. Has Okafur ever averaged 18pts per game? Nope, especially not as the third option. Hell he couldn't even get to 14 as the number 1/2 option. I mean he's their only low post option and he can only get you 13pts per game? What's he going to do when he's the third? I also just don't think that Okafur is that much better of a rebounder. Okafur doesn't have a guy in the post next to him averaging over 10rebs per game either. I seriously doubt that Okafur would average double digit rebounds per game with Boozer right next to him."

Okafur was injured a little bit last season, which kept his numbers down and Okur averaged 17 points in one of the playoff series, but not during the season, which was due to lack-luster play from Boozer. I know this still proves that offensivley, Okur has the stats of being better, but Okafur being the only go-to guy can be more of a negative to his stats than a positive, being that every team knows the ball is going to him and so who do they all guard? Okafur. Okafur is an easier target for teams to pound on than Okur is due to all the other talent on the jazz.

If you use stats to prove your point on both their offenses, then you have to believe the defensive stats as showing which player is better too. Becuase you and can make excusses all day as to why Okur and Okafur have particular stats. The defensive stats, every one of them, show Okafur being better. And what I originally said was that we need the defensive aspects of Okafur's game, not so much the offense. Saying that Okafur's rebounds would go down next to boozer is just speculation. I am speculating that his rebounds would not go down. Remember, Okafur is a defender, not a 3 point center, it's what he specializes in. He works a lot harder down under than Okur and uses his body a lot more to get his way. Okur? he specializes in his 3 shot.
Also, it's not like Okafur is on the court ALL by himself, come on, he has other players around him that rebound as well. If Okafur was in Okur's spot, the stereotypical speculation from many is that you would see points not change really, Okafur would have maybe 10-16 a game (which is all the jazz need), but you would see 2-3 blocks a game at least, and an average of 10-12 rebounds per game, I agree with that speculation becuase it's a vacuum that exists within the jazz line-up. No one else is doing it consistently (besides boozer's rebounds, which are needed at the C as well), which is a perfect invitation for someone like Okafur.
Okafur is also younger, which gives him even more possiblity to do even better than what he has been doing.

However, I seriously doubt any movement will be made with Okur, which is fine, I don't think he is the one that needs to go anyway, plus Okafur's ft% is horrendous, which also contributes a lot to him not scoring many more points.

Lo Porto
07-27-2008, 08:58 PM
Okur and Okafor both bring different things to the table, and I would have to say that Okur has been a better pro up to this point. However, if we are talking Okur and AK for Okafor and Wallace, I do that all day long. Financially, we stand to save about $7-8 million a year. In terms of age, we get a little younger too. Defensively, I think we get the help where we need it and that's the post. AK brings a lot, but he doesn't bring it in the post or perimeter for Utah.

Also, isn't Koufos a Okur clone anyway? If we can get him playing that type of role but coming off the bench, we would have the great parts of Okur and Okafor in the same lineup. I'm not saying Koufos will be Okur, but he could be a bench version of him or a bit better in a year or two.

I'd take Okafor and Wallace for Okur and AK all day...

jimbobjarree
07-28-2008, 10:04 AM
one on one I'd take Okur over Okafor and Boozer over Okafor, but Boozer and Okur together bring little Defense, but with Boozer and Okafor the team will be more balanced. If the Jazz somehow acquire a big threat from the perimeter, I dont see the need for an outside scoring center on our team, and Okur will have to be traded for more defense inside.

Lo Porto
07-28-2008, 10:40 AM
I completely agree with you. Okur is a little better, but Okafor might be a better fit with Boozer for obvious defensive reasons. Okur is a great guy to have, but we're going to need post defense in a big way over the next 5 years against guys like Duncan, Amare, Gasol and Bynum, etc...

I think we already have our perimeter shooters in Korver and CJ with Almond maybe helping in the future.