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View Full Version : Obama would use "big sticks and big carrots" ??????



Doc Fluty
07-23-2008, 03:37 PM
Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama defended his proposal to negotiate with Iran Wednesday and said he would use "big sticks and big carrots" to persuade the country's leaders not to develop nuclear weapons.

"My whole goal in terms of having tough, serious direct diplomacy is not because I'm naive about the nature of any of these regimes. I'm not," Obama said at a press conference. "It is because if we show ourselves willing to talk and to offer carrots and sticks in order to deal with these pressing problems, and if Iran then rejects any overtures of that sort, it puts us in a stronger position to mobilize the international community to ratchet up the pressure on Iran."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080723/ap_on_el_pr/obama_mideast

WOW....

Europe has been "talking" to Iran for decades. Sanctions have already been implemented. The international community is already putting pressure on Iran to stop developing nukes. Talks are going on now and have been to get Iran to stop building nuclear facilities hundreds of feet underground to prevent anyone from bombing them...

BUT...THANK GOD WE HAVE STUTTERING BARRY

he is going to say something so profound that Iran will just change its mind. once they are in Obamas presence they will love the guy and stop threatening to "wipe Israel off the map" ....his sticks and carrots will be a offer iran just cant refuse.

his book should have been called... the audacity of ego

PHX-SOXFAN
07-23-2008, 03:45 PM
his book should have been called... the audacity of ego

the audacity of ego is what has lead to resorting to purely threatening and ignoring Iran. Ignoring is very close to the word ignorance for a reason.

Doc Fluty
07-23-2008, 04:00 PM
europe has been negotiating with them for decades... and im sure a few people in the last year have called them up a few times when they were shooting missiles off....so no one is ignoring them.

Iran wants to obliterate an entire country.

you dont try to appease them by lifting sanctions. its like sending gifts to the neighborhood bully not to beat up your cousin.

Obama has said he will meet with them in his first year unconditionally. These people have been at war for hundreds of years... but Obamas ego tells him that only he knows the verbiage needed to quell this issue

PHX-SOXFAN
07-23-2008, 04:09 PM
europe has been negotiating with them for decades... and im sure a few people in the last year have called them up a few times when they were shooting missiles off....so no one is ignoring them.

Iran wants to obliterate an entire country.

you dont try to appease them by lifting sanctions. its like sending gifts to the neighborhood bully not to beat up your cousin.

Obama has said he will meet with them in his first year unconditionally. These people have been at war for hundreds of years... but Obamas ego tells him that only he knows the verbiage needed to quell this issue

hmmm? I know I never read or heard anything about obama lifting sanctions, appeasing, or sending gifts.:D It's funny how this whole spin thing works, it's usually when you completely misrepresent what someone says with a wildly false interpretation to fit your own beliefs and opinions.

Doc Fluty
07-23-2008, 04:31 PM
hmmm? I know I never read or heard anything about obama lifting sanctions, appeasing, or sending gifts.:D It's funny how this whole spin thing works, it's usually when you completely misrepresent what someone says with a wildly false interpretation to fit your own beliefs and opinions.

ok.. what else would he do to get them to stop their nuclear activity?

ask nicely?

cmon... tell me how he will do it that HASN'T been tried already

(but in reality...if he did send a gift like a u.s. mint machine... maybe that would help lol)

sboyajian
07-23-2008, 05:27 PM
How come all of your threads start with immediate knee jerk reactions, are compounded by you ignoring other people's points and then eventually end in you telling everyone they are wrong and you were right in the first post all along?

If I were you, I probably would have jumped off a building years ago. :(

Doc Fluty
07-23-2008, 06:04 PM
1. i start with a view and i give my point on it. thats what a thread is for.

2. i dont ignore other peoples post...it is a discussion, i made a point, he responded, i responded... thats how these things work. i asked PHX what obama would do differently that hasnt been tried... that isnt hateful, it was never personal (unlike your post), it isnt being a jerk, its not berating him... thats a genuine question. i didnt tell him he was wrong... and i even made a joke at the end to keep things on the lighter side

3. i dont see a whole lot of mind changing from anyone in this forum. usually people argue there views until the death here..

so n conclusion Mr. "king of non-kings"... **** you and have a nice day

CubsGirl
07-23-2008, 06:20 PM
I honestly think you and moonman should just stop making threads.

Doc Fluty
07-23-2008, 06:40 PM
ummmmm..... y?

my thread was about something in the news Today.. i quoted and posted the article. then i gave my view on it... i didn't make anything up.. i didnt fabricate myths

what kind of threads would you prefer?

ive never came here and called anyone stupid or called them names... just defended my views... wheres the harm in that?

don't like my threads... then when you see a thread with my name on it.. don't read it.

gosh.. frikin babies

Raidaz4Life
07-23-2008, 06:53 PM
Iran never has and never will listen to us.... we are the enemy to them and everything they believe in but some people will just never get that...

moonman
07-23-2008, 07:15 PM
I honestly think you and moonman should just stop making threads.

Geez, do I respond or report that post?

blenderboy5
07-23-2008, 07:20 PM
I honestly think you and moonman should just stop making threads.

QFT. I'd sign that petition.


Geez, do I respond or report that post?

Mybe take a hint?

Anyway, I realize what the big carrots would be (Israel, our liberties, etc), but what would the big stick be? "Listen, Mr. President. Could you please pretend to be rational enough to negotiate with for a few minutes? And would you mind not breaking this promise for a few more months?"

moonman
07-23-2008, 07:21 PM
Iran never has and never will listen to us.... we are the enemy to them and everything they believe in but some people will just never get that...

Uh no, that's not quite accurate. Some a-hole Mullahs who control Iran sure but they won't last forever. The Iranian People will rise the moment President Obama sends them their cue. IF they don't, we and/or the Israeli's will bomb them until those Mullah's are on all fours and licking Hillary's or maybe even Cub Girl's boots.

ari1013
07-23-2008, 07:48 PM
europe has been negotiating with them for decades... and im sure a few people in the last year have called them up a few times when they were shooting missiles off....so no one is ignoring them.

Iran wants to obliterate an entire country.

you dont try to appease them by lifting sanctions. its like sending gifts to the neighborhood bully not to beat up your cousin.

Obama has said he will meet with them in his first year unconditionally. These people have been at war for hundreds of years... but Obamas ego tells him that only he knows the verbiage needed to quell this issue
Just an FYI Doc, Jesus hates liars. ;)

You might want to check up on the facts before you spread any more lies.

Doc Fluty
07-23-2008, 08:07 PM
Just an FYI Doc, Jesus hates liars. ;)

You might want to check up on the facts before you spread any more lies.

(calmly) ok... which part was a lie

Raidaz4Life
07-23-2008, 08:13 PM
Uh no, that's not quite accurate. Some a-hole Mullahs who control Iran sure but they won't last forever. The Iranian People will rise the moment President Obama sends them their cue. IF they don't, we and/or the Israeli's will bomb them until those Mullah's are on all fours and licking Hillary's or maybe even Cub Girl's boots.

as long as Obama is feeding them carrots they will:D

ari1013
07-23-2008, 08:37 PM
(calmly) ok... which part was a lie
Let's start with the lifting of sanctions. Just because Rush says that's what Obama wants to do doesn't make it true.

Second, I'm not quite sure who you're talking about with "these people" at war for "hundreds of years," but quite honestly, if it's about Jews and Persians, you really couldn't be further from the truth. Iran was Israel's biggest ally in the Middle East until the peace deal with Egypt. In fact, almost all the oil Israel imported from Middle Eastern sources came from Irani wells.

Going back throughout history, it was always the Persians who aided the Jews. They liberated the Jews from the Babylonians and Assyrians. They helped the Jews in their second major insurrection against the Romans. And subsequently, they helped many Jewish refugees who were thrown out of Arab countries between 1920 and 1955.


Please stop getting all your news from Rush. I know you're better than that.

PHX-SOXFAN
07-24-2008, 11:19 AM
I honestly think you and moonman should just stop making threads.

:clap::clap::clap:

nice! I think this would cancel iteself out and take some emotion and get more to intellectual discussion.

PHX-SOXFAN
07-24-2008, 11:22 AM
Please stop getting all your news from Rush. I know you're better than that.

a lot of people need this advice. they would have a better understanding of economics, foreign policy, oil prices, and end up not hating mexicans.

gcoll
07-25-2008, 02:24 AM
So...what exactly is Obama willing to offer, and for what?

The way I understand it, (I'm probably wrong), is that we have offered the carrot of starting talks, for the action of Iran suspending nuclear development.

And, Iran hasn't taken that one....and I would think, that they believe that a nuclear weapon.......will get them much bigger carrots, and they're right.

At the end of the day I'm fine with Obama talking to Iran. I just really want to know what he plans to say.

blenderboy5
07-25-2008, 07:59 AM
Yeah, that's basically right. we said we'd talk to Iran if and when they stopped developing the technology for nukes. Iran said no. Obama said he'd talk to Iran no matter what.

There's only so many ways a conversation with Iran can go, but they've already said no. Maybe the President of Iran's leg will start shaking and he'll feel faint after seeing Obama?

ari1013
07-25-2008, 09:36 AM
So...what exactly is Obama willing to offer, and for what?

The way I understand it, (I'm probably wrong), is that we have offered the carrot of starting talks, for the action of Iran suspending nuclear development.

And, Iran hasn't taken that one....and I would think, that they believe that a nuclear weapon.......will get them much bigger carrots, and they're right.

At the end of the day I'm fine with Obama talking to Iran. I just really want to know what he plans to say.
I imagine that the first round of sticks and carrots would be talks vs. sanctions. Obama has said that he's not going to rule out any option, so a military option is about as big a stick as it gets.

SmthBluCitrus
07-25-2008, 10:30 AM
Anyway, I realize what the big carrots would be (Israel, our liberties, etc), but what would the big stick be? "Listen, Mr. President. Could you please pretend to be rational enough to negotiate with for a few minutes? And would you mind not breaking this promise for a few more months?"

How would talks with Iran infringe on "our liberties?" And, I'm pretty sure Obama isn't going to hand the keys to Israel over to Ahmadinejad and say "Here ya go! Enjoy!"

PHX-SOXFAN
07-25-2008, 12:22 PM
How would talks with Iran infringe on "our liberties?" And, I'm pretty sure Obama isn't going to hand the keys to Israel over to Ahmadinejad and say "Here ya go! Enjoy!"

it could have until recently. GW could have deemed every Iranian in the US an "enemy combatant" and held them without reason or trial. luckily the supreme court took this away. So I guess if you are Iranian in this situation your liberties could be in jeopardy until last month.:D

gcoll
07-25-2008, 02:35 PM
I imagine that the first round of sticks and carrots would be talks vs. sanctions. Obama has said that he's not going to rule out any option, so a military option is about as big a stick as it gets.

Military option is a pretty big stick. And if Obama is considering that, will people call him a warmonger?

Because really....I'm not sure if I can see a way this will end differently. I do think that Iran is intent on becoming a nuclear power, because when they're a nuclear power....we have to listen. And there's no chance that Israel will sit still, and allow Iran to become a nuclear power. So my only assumption is that the **** will hit the fan, and pretty soon.

Although. Maybe we can bribe them with porn. Guys in that region, are all desperate for porn.

Doc Fluty
07-25-2008, 03:01 PM
Iran: EU 'Carrots and Sticks' Won't Stop Our Nuke Pursuit - AP

also Tuesday, Iranian foreign ministry spokesman Mohammad Ali Hosseini said in a statement that the "carrot and stick policy" by the 27-nation EU bloc won't stop Iran's "pursuit to realize its nuclear rights."

Earlier in June, the EU unsuccessfully proposed a package of economic incentives in return for an end to Iran's uranium enrichment program. Tehran officials have scorned the proposal, although

The U.N. Security Council has also demanded Iran suspend uranium enrichment as a prelude to talks on its nuclear program. But Tehran insists it has a right to enrich uranium for nuclear energy under the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty and has shrugged off three rounds of U.N. sanctions.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,370562,00.html

oh yeah BTW.. there making long range missiles too

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/07/12/missile.iran/index.html?iref=newssearch

now what?

ari1013
07-25-2008, 06:27 PM
Military option is a pretty big stick. And if Obama is considering that, will people call him a warmonger?

Because really....I'm not sure if I can see a way this will end differently. I do think that Iran is intent on becoming a nuclear power, because when they're a nuclear power....we have to listen. And there's no chance that Israel will sit still, and allow Iran to become a nuclear power. So my only assumption is that the **** will hit the fan, and pretty soon.

Although. Maybe we can bribe them with porn. Guys in that region, are all desperate for porn.
If we've tried serious dialogue and failed; if we've tried to give them suggestions for alternatives to nuclear energy and been rebuked -- then you're right, war is definitely going to have to be the next option. I see nothing wrong with war if it's executed properly and for the right reasons.

ari1013
07-25-2008, 06:29 PM
Iran: EU 'Carrots and Sticks' Won't Stop Our Nuke Pursuit - AP

also Tuesday, Iranian foreign ministry spokesman Mohammad Ali Hosseini said in a statement that the "carrot and stick policy" by the 27-nation EU bloc won't stop Iran's "pursuit to realize its nuclear rights."

Earlier in June, the EU unsuccessfully proposed a package of economic incentives in return for an end to Iran's uranium enrichment program. Tehran officials have scorned the proposal, although

The U.N. Security Council has also demanded Iran suspend uranium enrichment as a prelude to talks on its nuclear program. But Tehran insists it has a right to enrich uranium for nuclear energy under the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty and has shrugged off three rounds of U.N. sanctions.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,370562,00.html

oh yeah BTW.. there making long range missiles too

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/07/12/missile.iran/index.html?iref=newssearch

now what?
Well, they are correct that they have those rights. And that's why its important to show them that just because they have the right doesn't mean they should do it. That's where the alternatives come in. If they REALLY do need the energy, then we should be able to give them technology for wind power. The wind is very strong up in the plateaus. Of course if they don't want that, then it becomes clear what their intentions really are. And make no mistake about it, a nuclear armed Iran is something that nobody wants to see (except for maybe some extremist nutjobs).