PDA

View Full Version : Our Best Hitter



Sportsnut
07-23-2008, 12:30 PM
With the emergence of Geovany Soto, Mark Derosa, Ryan Theriot, and Kosuke Fukudome (albeit he is struggling), who would you consider our best hitter?

Aramis is great however he is strangely falling into multiple slumps in a row even though players who seem to make contact as much as Aramis has in the past never fall in to these certain circumstances.

Dlee is a tremendous player, and we all know what happened in '06 when his injury terminally ended our season. Remember the days of Sergio Mitre and Jerome Williams? Yuck! However, he always seems to under perform in clutch situations.

Alfonso, while he hasn't been playing for quite a while is still the most explosive player in this league when he is hot. The key word is, when he is hot. When he is hot, we all know he can hit .800 and belt 10 HRs in a week.

Kill me for bringing Theriot in to this discussion but he is leading the team in Batting Average and OB%.

So tell me, who would you say is our best hitter?
[Trying to void the 'our offense sucks' discussion].

behindmydesk
07-23-2008, 12:34 PM
I don't think you can ever include a guy who can't slug 400 into a discussion on best hitter.

Best hitter is still probably Lee, then Aram, and those 2 are a clear step above anyone else.

mawp
07-23-2008, 12:35 PM
Best pure hitter? DLee without a question.

hizpcstr
07-23-2008, 12:35 PM
With the emergence of Geovany Soto, Mark Derosa, Ryan Theriot, and Kosuke Fukudome (albeit he is struggling), who would you consider our best hitter?

Aramis is great however he is strangely falling into multiple slumps in a row even though players who seem to make contact as much as Aramis has in the past never fall in to these certain circumstances.

Dlee is a tremendous player, and we all know what happened in '06 when his injury terminally ended our season. Remember the days of Sergio Mitre and Jerome Williams? Yuck! However, he always seems to under perform in clutch situations.

Alfonso, while he hasn't been playing for quite a while is still the most explosive player in this league when he is hot. The key word is, when he is hot. When he is hot, we all know he can hit .800 and belt 10 HRs in a week.

Kill me for bringing Theriot in to this discussion but he is leading the team in Batting Average and OB%.

So tell me, who would you say is our best hitter?
[Trying to void the 'our offense sucks' discussion].

Ryan is having a good season but he is not the best hitter on the team.

BigBruceRogers
07-23-2008, 12:35 PM
Best hitter is Lee, usually. He has the best eye at least. After him, I would probably vote for Daryle "the beast" Ward.

GOCUBSGO20
07-23-2008, 12:36 PM
I would have to say Aramis. For being a slugger he is great at taking what the pitcher gives him and hitting the ball the opposite way with authority. He is usually very clutch as well and makes consistent contact. He is one of the guys that pitchers hate to face with the game on the line.

Theriot also has a very good approach at the plate but last year he faded at the end of the season. It will be interesting to see if he can continue his offensive success through the end of the year.

Sportsnut
07-23-2008, 12:41 PM
The best hitter gets the most hits, am I right?

Ryan Theriot is leading the team in hits.

He has no power at all. But, if i want to start a rally, while I did not like Theriot in the past, I want Theriot leading it off.

I still am a stronger supporter in leading off Soriano. For some reason, I just get chills when I walk into Wrigley and we have a guy who has repeatedly hit 45 home runs in a season in the past, leading off.

I can't wait for Soriano to pick up his speed as well. Speed, is still one of the best forces in this game.

A bloop single when you get jammed and stealing 2nd can compensate for the times you don't hit the ball extremely hard.

poodski
07-23-2008, 12:42 PM
DLee without a shadow of a doubt is our best hitter.

Then:

Aramis

then quite a drop and I think any of the other hitters could be considered third or so.

poodski
07-23-2008, 12:44 PM
The best hitter gets the most hits, am I right?

Ryan Theriot is leading the team in hits.

He has no power at all. But, if i want to start a rally, while I did not like Theriot in the past, I want Theriot leading it off.

I still am a stronger supporter in leading off Soriano. For some reason, I just get chills when I walk into Wrigley and we have a guy who has repeatedly hit 45 home runs in a season in the past, leading off.

I can't wait for Soriano to pick up his speed as well. Speed, is still one of the best forces in this game.

A bloop single when you get jammed and stealing 2nd can compensate for the times you don't hit the ball extremely hard.

Thats just a bit of a shallow way of looking at it.

If you want 1 run you sure as hell dont want Theriot at the plate. If you want multiple runs having Theriot hit first does help you out.

But there is more to hitting than just getting hits. Discipline and power are just as important.

If I need someone to just put the ball in play there is absolutley no one I want up there other than Theriot, but he certainly isnt our best hitter.

Sportsnut
07-23-2008, 12:55 PM
Thats just a bit of a shallow way of looking at it.

If you want 1 run you sure as hell dont want Theriot at the plate. If you want multiple runs having Theriot hit first does help you out.

But there is more to hitting than just getting hits. Discipline and power are just as important.

If I need someone to just put the ball in play there is absolutley no one I want up there other than Theriot, but he certainly isnt our best hitter.

I'm not trying to put myself out here as a Theriot lover, as that is the last thing I am. I am completely aware of his lack of power. Theriot does have plate discipline and he does put the ball in play and where no one can catch the ball.

My personal opinion is that Aramis Ramirez is the best hitter due to his power, plate patience, and ability to make contact.

Wow, when we traded Bobby Hill and Jose Hernandez for Kenny Lofton for Aramis Ramirez, I was certainly depressed that we had not picked up Mike Lowell, but now he is compared to the best hitter on the Cubs, what a turn around huh?

IvyWentCrazy
07-23-2008, 01:00 PM
Alfonso Soriano

CubbieSteve
07-23-2008, 01:04 PM
When Ramirez is on, he's our best hitter. But as far as consistently being a good hitter, Derrek Lee is the man.

RedHeadsRule
07-23-2008, 01:20 PM
1. Derrek "DP" Lee
2. Aramis Ramirez
3. Alfonso Soriano

4. Soto/Fukudome/DeRosa/Theriot/Edmonds

Canada's Finest
07-23-2008, 01:26 PM
In my eyes, It is clearly Aram. Besides DLee's amazing season in 05, Ramirez has crushed him in Slugging, been pretty close as far as batting average goes, and he puts up a OBP close to Lee's. His OPS has been in the .920 range for the past couple of years while Lee's has been anywhere from .850 to 1.08. So besides that one year where Lee hit out of his mind, Ramirez has consistantly been the better of the two. The rest of the hitters don't even compare to those two.

scrubs101
07-23-2008, 01:29 PM
Aramis Ramirez

CubsBullsfan28
07-23-2008, 01:31 PM
the best overall hitter is lee because he hits for some power and a high average and hits to all fields. ramirez is the best clutch hitter on this team, but when alfonso soriano is hot, you can argue that he is the best hitter in baseball.

homestarunner93
07-23-2008, 01:41 PM
Alfonso Soriano

4cubs
07-23-2008, 02:01 PM
Other than the current slump, it is Ramirez IMO.

He seems to be more 'clutch' and less 'anti-clutch' (even though many believe there is no such thing).

Right now, if the team needed a hit to win the game, I feel most comfortable with Theriot.

hockeyplaya97
07-23-2008, 02:08 PM
I think that you can make a case for either Ramirez or Lee with out too much of an argument. Personally I think Ramirez because he has been extremely consistent over the course of the last few years. He usually puts up the same kind of numbers every year. Even though Lee is also consistent I still feel that Ramirez is slightly above him. They are both, however, very good hitters.

Theriot2
07-23-2008, 02:16 PM
Soriano.

NorthsideJohn
07-23-2008, 02:35 PM
Veteran Hitters

1. Ramirez
2. Lee
3. Soriano
4. Edmonds
5. Derosa
6. Ward

(BTW the vets are the ones slumping at the moment and this WILL CHANGE and hopefully very soon)


The rest of the team does not have enough of a history to compare accurately

BUT of the younger players

1. Fukudome
2. Theriot
3. Soto
4. Fontenot
5. Cedeno

NORTH10
07-23-2008, 03:12 PM
dlee, rami, theriot

dlee will usually drive the ball all over the place, rami will bring more power, theriot and his inside out swing will usually get on base.

Matchstckman
07-23-2008, 03:16 PM
Veteran Hitters

1. Ramirez
2. Lee
3. Soriano
4. Edmonds
5. Derosa
6. Ward

(BTW the vets are the ones slumping at the moment and this WILL CHANGE and hopefully very soon)


The rest of the team does not have enough of a history to compare accurately

BUT of the younger players

1. Fukudome
2. Theriot
3. Soto
4. Fontenot
5. Cedeno


He's 31. I understand he's a rookie, but not exactley a young player.



Beyond that, I think there's a difference between best batter and best hitter.

I think as far as approach at the plate, DLee is generally better and therefore is probably a better batter. Ramirez is probably a better hitter in my mind because he has more power generally and still gets OB really well, at least this year.

NorthsideJohn
07-23-2008, 03:18 PM
He's 31. I understand he's a rookie, but not exactley a young player.



Beyond that, I think there's a difference between best batter and best hitter.

I think as far as approach at the plate, DLee is generally better and therefore is probably a better batter. Ramirez is probably a better hitter in my mind because he has more power generally and still gets OB really well, at least this year.

excellent point

Federer & Nadal
07-23-2008, 03:37 PM
With the emergence of Geovany Soto, Mark Derosa, Ryan Theriot, and Kosuke Fukudome (albeit he is struggling), who would you consider our best hitter?

Aramis is great however he is strangely falling into multiple slumps in a row even though players who seem to make contact as much as Aramis has in the past never fall in to these certain circumstances.

Dlee is a tremendous player, and we all know what happened in '06 when his injury terminally ended our season. Remember the days of Sergio Mitre and Jerome Williams? Yuck! However, he always seems to under perform in clutch situations.

Alfonso, while he hasn't been playing for quite a while is still the most explosive player in this league when he is hot. The key word is, when he is hot. When he is hot, we all know he can hit .800 and belt 10 HRs in a week.

Kill me for bringing Theriot in to this discussion but he is leading the team in Batting Average and OB%.

So tell me, who would you say is our best hitter?
[Trying to void the 'our offense sucks' discussion].

Most Trusted to get on base= Theriot
Most Trusted to get a clutch hit= Theriot/Ramirez
Most Trusted to get a clutch HR/go ahead RBI= Ramirez
Least Trusted with Runner on 1st and less than 2 outs= D Lee
Most Trusted to get a HR= Soriano
Most Trusted to get the tying run in with a man on 3rd and 1 out= D Lee/Ramirez
Least trusted to not K in important situation= Soriano
Most trusted to not K in important situation= Theriot/Ramirez
Most trusted not to K and to run out anything put into play= Theriot
Most trusted to accept the walk= Lee/Ramirez/Theriot/Fukudome
Least trusted to accept the walk= Soriano
Person I would want to leadoff a comeback rally= Theriot/Fukudome
Person I would want up down 1 run in the World Series with 2 outs= Soriano
Most consistent= Theriot/Lee


There's some good situations to think about

hizpcstr
07-23-2008, 04:08 PM
So if you hit a lot of singles it makes you a good hitter?

mawp
07-23-2008, 04:14 PM
So if you hit a lot of singles it makes you a good hitter?

Chicks dig the bloop hit over the SS.

Cubs Fan 4Ever
07-23-2008, 05:14 PM
Best Hitter: Soriano
Most Consistent: Theriot

MLB_FANATIC_99
07-23-2008, 05:34 PM
Ramirez
Soriano
Lee
Soto
Derosa
Theriot

haggy813
07-23-2008, 05:56 PM
it matters wat ur thinking as a hitter. If u mean power and average then it would be Dlee. If ur talking about power then soriano. contact Fukudome.

IvyWentCrazy
07-23-2008, 05:59 PM
Most Trusted to get on base= Theriot
Most Trusted to get a clutch hit= Theriot/Ramirez
Most Trusted to get a clutch HR/go ahead RBI= Ramirez
Least Trusted with Runner on 1st and less than 2 outs= D Lee
Most Trusted to get a HR= Soriano
Most Trusted to get the tying run in with a man on 3rd and 1 out= D Lee/Ramirez
Least trusted to not K in important situation= Soriano
Most trusted to not K in important situation= Theriot/Ramirez
Most trusted not to K and to run out anything put into play= Theriot
Most trusted to accept the walk= Lee/Ramirez/Theriot/Fukudome
Least trusted to accept the walk= Soriano
Person I would want to leadoff a comeback rally= Theriot/Fukudome
Person I would want up down 1 run in the World Series with 2 outs= Soriano
Most consistent= Theriot/Lee


There's some good situations to think about


You also forgot:
Most likely to ground into double play= Dlee/Theriot
Most likely to get thrown out at second= Theriot/Fukudome
Most likely to get thrown out at third with 0 or 2 outs= Theriot
Most likely to make base running error= Theriot

4cubs
07-23-2008, 06:00 PM
So if you hit a lot of singles it makes you a good hitter?
As Brenley(Sp?) says, "get the merry go round going." Keep the base hits coming and you can score a lot of runs in an inning. In addition, the pitcher is now worried about base runners and is probably pitching out of the stretch.

I would take a team of good singles hitters up and down the lineup over a team with a few HR hitters any day.

4cubs
07-23-2008, 06:04 PM
You also forgot:
Most likely to ground into double play= Dlee/Theriot
Most likely to get thrown out at second= Theriot/Fukudome
Most likely to get thrown out at third with 0 or 2 outs= Theriot
Most likely to make base running error= Theriot

He covered your first one with runner on first and less than 2 outs.

You can't get thrown out or make a base running error if your not on base. Theriot gets on base.

poodski
07-23-2008, 06:33 PM
You also forgot:
Most likely to ground into double play= Dlee/Theriot
Most likely to get thrown out at second= Theriot/Fukudome
Most likely to get thrown out at third with 0 or 2 outs= Theriot
Most likely to make base running error= Theriot

Theriot is a very good base runner IMO.

Not a good base stealer persay but a very smart base runner.

IvyWentCrazy
07-23-2008, 08:04 PM
Theriot is a very good base runner IMO.

Not a good base stealer persay but a very smart base runner.

Are you kidding me? Really, wasn't it 2 or 3 games ago he was thrown out at third when the ball was hit in front of him at second base. High school ****.

Here's the only compliment I can give Theriot's base running skills: he's not slow. That's it.

Chi-cityfan
07-23-2008, 08:06 PM
Actually TheRiot and DLee are tied for the lead in hits with 120 and DLee has 45 multi-base hits while Riot only has 17... and I'll take Lee's .491 slug, 64 Runs, and 198 TB's over Riot's .383, 53, and 140

So if were going by pure stats it would be DLee

poodski
07-23-2008, 08:25 PM
Are you kidding me? Really, wasn't it 2 or 3 games ago he was thrown out at third when the ball was hit in front of him at second base. High school ****.

Here's the only compliment I can give Theriot's base running skills: he's not slow. That's it.

Cuz no one ever makes mistakes on this team?

I remember Lee dropping a ball at first base that hit him in the chest. So he is a bad fielder? Come on.

ds637
07-23-2008, 08:48 PM
There needs to be some kind of regulation on this. You cant compare power to contact hitters.

Let me just say, with the amount that Theriot has been on base while in the top 2 spots and the amount of runners D-Lee has had on base I would say D-Lee is a good hitter, but probably the most overated 3 hitter I can think of, not to mention the worst clutch hitter on the team.

I like D-Lee, great fielder, solid hitting but come on.
He leads the team in ABs, always bats in the 3 hole and Derosa and Soto with 80 less ABs have almost as many RBIs. Soriano has half the ABs and 19 less RBIs.
There arent many guys in the 3-hole that produce as little as D-Lee especially with him playing basically every game.
Did I mention since June 1st he has 2 home runs and since July 1 he has 0?

He is a good player but in no way our best hitter. You have to compare his hitting not only to the teammates but also to what production we should expect from him in the 3-spot.

ds637
07-23-2008, 09:52 PM
did he read my post?

giventofly
07-23-2008, 09:55 PM
did he read my post?
Who cares? And how would we know?

ds637
07-23-2008, 09:58 PM
Who cares? And how would we know?

I never thought about it like that. You have provided great insight.

Federer & Nadal
07-23-2008, 11:14 PM
You also forgot:
Most likely to ground into double play= Dlee/Theriot
Most likely to get thrown out at second= Theriot/Fukudome
Most likely to get thrown out at third with 0 or 2 outs= Theriot
Most likely to make base running error= Theriot

I made the double play reference you just didn't understand it...The other 3 categories you gave are refering to baserunning...which is not hitting...now we can discuss who is the best baserunner on the team if you want to make an uninteresting thread about it :eyebrow:

Federer & Nadal
07-23-2008, 11:17 PM
Cuz no one ever makes mistakes on this team?

I remember Lee dropping a ball at first base that hit him in the chest. So he is a bad fielder? Come on.

Very good point. This is another good example of a fellow Cub fan taking ONE little piece of information and blowing it out of proportion.

Jilly Bohnson
07-24-2008, 01:59 AM
Aramis. Good contact, very good power, and this year started taking the base on balls much more frequently. The difference prior to this year was slim, but now that Aramis is taking the walk more, I think he's surpassed Lee.

And no one else should really be in the discussion IMO. No one else on this team has nearly the same combination of power, contact, and plate discipline as those two.

dbrown1225
07-24-2008, 05:05 AM
Theriot is a very good base runner IMO.

Not a good base stealer persay but a very smart base runner.


Do you watch the games?

dbrown1225
07-24-2008, 05:09 AM
There needs to be some kind of regulation on this. You cant compare power to contact hitters.

Let me just say, with the amount that Theriot has been on base while in the top 2 spots and the amount of runners D-Lee has had on base I would say D-Lee is a good hitter, but probably the most overated 3 hitter I can think of, not to mention the worst clutch hitter on the team.

I like D-Lee, great fielder, solid hitting but come on.
He leads the team in ABs, always bats in the 3 hole and Derosa and Soto with 80 less ABs have almost as many RBIs. Soriano has half the ABs and 19 less RBIs.
There arent many guys in the 3-hole that produce as little as D-Lee especially with him playing basically every game.
Did I mention since June 1st he has 2 home runs and since July 1 he has 0?

He is a good player but in no way our best hitter. You have to compare his hitting not only to the teammates but also to what production we should expect from him in the 3-spot.



I've been anti-Lee for a while now. I like him as a player but if he's not hitting home runs he doesn't belong in the 3 spot.

Nice to see him pop one tonight, but I'd like to know how he stands up against most 3 hitters in baseball.

The best hitter on the team is Aramis. If he wasn't ice cold right now this wouldn't even be an argument.

dbrown1225
07-24-2008, 05:21 AM
So it's kinda killing me to hate on Lee....because I do like him...just not in that spot. I did a little research.

Better 3 hitters in MLB...

Hamilton - duh

Holliday - better avg. and obp and same power numbers with 15 fewer games

Quentin - hate to say it, but he keeps producing

Berkman - duh

C.Jones - duh

Wright - better numbers

Burrell - one less RBI but better OBP and HR

Braun - much lower OBP but wouldn't you take him as your 3?

Pujols - duh


I'm not saying these are all better players than Derrek Lee, but that's a lot of guys who are better 3 hitters in MLB right now. Especially considering that the Cubs are trying to win the World Series.

IvyWentCrazy
07-24-2008, 09:12 AM
Very good point. This is another good example of a fellow Cub fan taking ONE little piece of information and blowing it out of proportion.

First, that was one of MANY Theriot base running mistakes just this year. However, there is no 'thrown out at third when the ball is hit in front of him' stat, and unless you have a stat for you people, it's just not true... Bottom line, Theriot= crappy baserunner, you can disagree but of course you would just be fooling yourself, again.

Theriot often makes that mistake, I know he knows you are not supposed to try to advance on that but I honestly think he thinks he can beat it out. Guesstimation; he's done that at least 5 times this year. Also, this year, I have seen him: blow past quade stop sign and get thrown out at home, not pick up quade's stop sign from second and get thrown out at third (3 times), and get caught stealing so many times it makes me sick. (the last one isn't really a mistake, but what the hey, while we are piling on.)

CubsFanBudMan74
07-24-2008, 10:34 AM
rammy imo is best hitter on the team

johnpeck22
07-24-2008, 11:12 AM
I will say there is no clear "best hitter" on this team (right now)! I know - but no doubt when he is not in a funk DLee is who I would want up 9 times in a row if I could - Ramy is up there too but I dont trust him in a situation where he must get on, not good enough to opposite field, he did get very disciplined at the plate though, good to see. Soriano has to play a few more games before we go there. Theriot is as good a 1 hole hitter as there is in the league, but no power at all so IDK if hes qualified for the best hitter, and def not the best hitter but someone who looks good and needs some more (pt) is Fonty, the spark plug at the bottom of the lineup if u will. But DLee I think is probably our best - its just hard to say right now.

HomelessRobles
07-24-2008, 11:17 AM
I've been anti-Lee for a while now. I like him as a player but if he's not hitting home runs he doesn't belong in the 3 spot.





So it's kinda killing me to hate on Lee....because I do like him...just not in that spot.


I'm confused...


Better 3 hitters in MLB...

Hamilton - duh

Holliday - better avg. and obp and same power numbers with 15 fewer games

Quentin - hate to say it, but he keeps producing

Berkman - duh

C.Jones - duh

Wright - better numbers

Burrell - one less RBI but better OBP and HR

Braun - much lower OBP but wouldn't you take him as your 3?

Pujols - duh


I'm not saying these are all better players than Derrek Lee, but that's a lot of guys who are better 3 hitters in MLB right now. Especially considering that the Cubs are trying to win the World Series.


None of these players are on our team. I'd probably take many of them over Derrek as our #3 hitter, but that's not the thread topic. I'm not one to bicker too much about 'staying on topic,' but none of what you've posted here makes a damn bit of difference in the argument of who the Cubs' best hitter is.

I'm not going to break down everyone you've posted here statistically... other than to say that you should def. look at Holliday's splits away from Coors. Derrek is fine in the #3 spot.

Having said that, I'll agree that Aramis is the better hitter overall, especially this year since he's taking more BB's. But similar to what someone earlier said, I think it's

1. Rami
1a. Lee




everyone else

Federer & Nadal
07-24-2008, 11:47 AM
First, that was one of MANY Theriot base running mistakes just this year. However, there is no 'thrown out at third when the ball is hit in front of him' stat, and unless you have a stat for you people, it's just not true... Bottom line, Theriot= crappy baserunner, you can disagree but of course you would just be fooling yourself, again.

Theriot often makes that mistake, I know he knows you are not supposed to try to advance on that but I honestly think he thinks he can beat it out. Guesstimation; he's done that at least 5 times this year. Also, this year, I have seen him: blow past quade stop sign and get thrown out at home, not pick up quade's stop sign from second and get thrown out at third (3 times), and get caught stealing so many times it makes me sick. (the last one isn't really a mistake, but what the hey, while we are piling on.)

1) First of all, when using a first of all, you must follow it up with a second of all to make the argument multi-useless
2) Second of all, unless you have something to back your information (much like a works cited on a report), your argument is useless. Your situations might all be right, but are no more proven than me sitting here rambling about all the mistakes I've seen Manny Ramirez make in LF. They are pointless, although believable. They are all useless unless I brought up the memorable times that everyone knows, I would have to provide proof, and right now your argument has no proof, you could be making those situations up.
3) Third of all, the topic of conversation was clearly best hitter, and you decided to ramble off into some mindless blithering of how you hate theriot's baserunning. That my friend, is where overreacting comes in, along with your ONE example that somehow has turned into MANY on this post. :rolleyes: I'm sure that all those situations you mentioned were actually true.