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View Full Version : Matt Holliday to replace Manny?



fadeaway24SC
07-22-2008, 12:46 PM
Red Sox may let Manny walk
Manny Ramirez's on-again, off-again relationship with Boston management seems like it's off again. Speculation in Boston is if Matt Holliday becomes available the Red Sox might let Ramirez walk and take a run at Holliday. Ramirez, 36, is represented by Scott Boras, who thinks Manny can play until he's 40, and will likely seek a four-year contract for his client, should Boston not bring him back. (Lorain Morning Journal)

Sounds good to me. Holliday would be a perfect replacement for Manny, and when Ortiz retires, we can find a replacement for him to get our new 3-4 punch.

IceMan360
07-22-2008, 01:11 PM
I really like the Matt Holliday idea BUT he plays at Coors Field so im kinda not sold on getting him. I wouldnt mind if we got him though.

ZHawk1123
07-22-2008, 01:15 PM
Sounds really good to me...

Make it happen Theo...

y2shoes
07-22-2008, 01:30 PM
Holiday he is a no nonsense kind of guy but anyone know if he has a good outfield arm so he can play the wall or move him to right and make JD play the wall!

patriotsrock2k2
07-22-2008, 01:44 PM
that's exactly what i want to happen

asomen
07-22-2008, 01:50 PM
If we let Manny walk...i see him signing with the Mets. He would fit in perfectly in that lineup and fill the gap in LF. Them and the yankees are the only teams stupid enough to give a 36 year old a 4 year contract worth 80 mil.

RedSoxtober
07-22-2008, 02:22 PM
Red Sox may let Manny walk
Manny Ramirez's on-again, off-again relationship with Boston management seems like it's off again. Speculation in Boston is if Matt Holliday becomes available the Red Sox might let Ramirez walk and take a run at Holliday. Ramirez, 36, is represented by Scott Boras, who thinks Manny can play until he's 40, and will likely seek a four-year contract for his client, should Boston not bring him back. (Lorain Morning Journal)

Sounds good to me. Holliday would be a perfect replacement for Manny, and when Ortiz retires, we can find a replacement for him to get our new 3-4 punch.

Before you make too many plans, realize that Holliday's contract runs through 2009 and he's represented by Boras. Contrary to those who believe he'd be a good trade target in the offseasion, I'd be wary knowing that (a) Boras always takes clients to FA and (b) NYY will be done with Damon, Matsui, and Abreu by the end of 2009. Holliday could easily be a one-and-done guy no matter where he plays.

kazzy4080
07-22-2008, 02:45 PM
if matt holiday does replace manny, which i like, we basically become a fully white team, especially if lowrie replaces lugo. anyway, id like the move, he'd be cheaper, hes younger, and wont be as much of a problem child as manny. hes numbers will drop a little going to the al and and leaving coors. but all of his numbers rise year after year. i think he could take advantage of fenway and be a solid producer. i hope it happens

BigEric
07-22-2008, 02:59 PM
if matt holiday does replace manny, which i like, we basically become a fully white team, especially if lowrie replaces lugo. anyway, id like the move, he'd be cheaper, hes younger, and wont be as much of a problem child as manny. hes numbers will drop a little going to the al and and leaving coors. but all of his numbers rise year after year. i think he could take advantage of fenway and be a solid producer. i hope it happens

Wow yeah it is a pretty white team.

bosox3431
07-22-2008, 03:20 PM
Red Sox may let Manny walk
Manny Ramirez's on-again, off-again relationship with Boston management seems like it's off again. Speculation in Boston is if Matt Holliday becomes available the Red Sox might let Ramirez walk and take a run at Holliday. Ramirez, 36, is represented by Scott Boras, who thinks Manny can play until he's 40, and will likely seek a four-year contract for his client, should Boston not bring him back. (Lorain Morning Journal)

Sounds good to me. Holliday would be a perfect replacement for Manny, and when Ortiz retires, we can find a replacement for him to get our new 3-4 punch.

Yea and hopefully his name is Lars Anderson

But to Holliday, please stop with it, if we trade great spects for him I will puke. Look at his splits people. His career at home: .364/.428/.663/1.091/81 hr's. His career on the road: .277/.341/.449/.790/39hr's. Thos are some huge differences, your talking over 300 points for OPS. Please no Theo

ZHawk1123
07-22-2008, 03:26 PM
Yea and hopefully his name is Lars Anderson

But to Holliday, please stop with it, if we trade great spects for him I will puke. Look at his splits people. His career at home: .364/.428/.663/1.091/81 hr's. His career on the road: .277/.341/.449/.790/39hr's. Thos are some huge differences, your talking over 300 points for OPS. Please no Theo

.277 on the road is not bad... Especially if the guy hits .364 at home... He is still a great player... Under 30 as well... If they could work an extention and trade for him...

I'd be willing to part with some prospects definitely...

kyubi256
07-22-2008, 03:39 PM
I would love Manny to go to the Mets if he does not come back...

but not for more than 3 years

bosox3431
07-22-2008, 03:39 PM
.277 on the road is not bad... Especially if the guy hits .364 at home... He is still a great player... Under 30 as well... If they could work an extention and trade for him...

I'd be willing to part with some prospects definitely...

avg is the least of my worries, look at the OBP, .341? He may play ok in fenway, but we wont see anything close to those numbers, not to mention how horrible this team is on the road already, so lets add a guy who cant hit worth a **** on the road, and giving up 2-3 good prospects for him. I could see if their was a 20 or maybe even 30 point diff in his stats, but most of them are close to 100 points, and his slg is over 200 points in diff.

Tragedy
07-22-2008, 03:43 PM
First of all, we're not letting Manny "walk". We're going to pick up that option regardless of if he's going to be a member of the 2009 team. We're either going to keep him for next year, or we're trading him. There is no FA for Ramirez this upcoming offseason.

With that said: I am all for Holliday on the Red Sox, playing LF, replacing the aging Ramirez. Depending on the cost of Holliday (I'd like to have a rough idea what we'd specifically be giving up), I'm all for it.

homie564
07-22-2008, 04:03 PM
id think holliday would cost wayy too muchprobably like

Buccholz Lowrie Masterson Lester

ZHawk1123
07-22-2008, 04:06 PM
id think holliday would cost wayy too muchprobably like

Buccholz Lowrie Masterson Lester

No way he costs that much... The Rockies will WANT to trade him because they don't want to have to resign him...

They don't have the leverage...

Think more along the lines of...

Bowden, Hansen and Moss or something like that...

Towelie
07-22-2008, 04:08 PM
Holliday would be a animal in FENWAY.

I can see three prospects, one being masterson or bowden.

ZHawk1123
07-22-2008, 04:09 PM
Holliday would be a animal in FENWAY.

Yeah... I completely agree... I've had enough of these people *****ing about his splits...

Towelie
07-22-2008, 04:15 PM
3 games in Fenway, 1 HR .385 AVG and 2 RBI. very small sample, but I think coors and fenway are comparable.

Fenway:
Left Field: 310 ft (94.5 m)
Deep Left-Center: 379 ft (115.5 m)
Center Field: 389 ft 9 in (118.8 m)
Deep Right-Center: 420 ft (128 m)
Right Field: 380 ft (115.8 m)
Right Field: 302 ft (92 m)
Backstop: 60 ft (18.3 m)

Coors:
Left Field - 347 ft / 106 m
Left-Center - 390 ft / 119 m
Center Field - 415 ft / 126.5 m
Right-Center - 375 ft / 114 m
Right Field - 350 ft / 107 m

with the air, it's very close.

bosox3431
07-22-2008, 04:16 PM
Yeah... I completely agree... I've had enough of these people *****ing about his splits...

Its the truth though. He may be great in Fenway, well to bad only half of the games are played there. He's a completely diff hitter outside of Coors, the stats dont lie, 300 god damn points in OPS, thats a huge diff, 200+ points in slg is also a huge diff. Im sorry you just cant see the facts

homie564
07-22-2008, 04:17 PM
i would deffinitely do it if we dont trade masterson or lowrie... like in a heartbeat

bosox3431
07-22-2008, 04:22 PM
i would deffinitely do it if we dont trade masterson or lowrie... like in a heartbeat

It would prolly take one if not both. Lowrie they would move to 2nd, and masterson would be a nice fit for coors.

ZHawk1123
07-22-2008, 04:24 PM
Its the truth though. He may be great in Fenway, well to bad only half of the games are played there. He's a completely diff hitter outside of Coors, the stats dont lie, 300 god damn points in OPS, thats a huge diff, 200+ points in slg is also a huge diff. Im sorry you just cant see the facts

I think I may just be willing to deal if he finishes the year with the numbers he always does...

I am just looking for a decent replacement for Manny... I've been a big manny supporter for as long as he's been here... But it's time for a change... And I think Holliday makes all the sense in the world...

Got any better ideas?

yaowowrocket11
07-22-2008, 04:53 PM
I absolutely would love to see Holliday in a Red Sox uniform in the coming year. Also, sorry guys, but just because he plays in Coors doesn't mean he is not a good player. The guy can full out hit the baseball, regardless of the park. A player doesn't finish 2nd in MVP voting due to the stadium he plays in. He is an outstanding player, and would be a great replacement for Manny, WHO WILL NOT BE A FREE AGENT THIS YEAR. You are 100% right, Tragedy.

homie564
07-22-2008, 04:55 PM
i really dont wanna see many walk ... but on aother note




:rock: :laugh: :silly: :superman: :laugh2: :dance: :dance2: :jumpy: 1,000th post!! :rock: :laugh: :silly: :superman: :laugh2: :dance: :dance2: :jumpy:

bosox1899
07-22-2008, 05:39 PM
tragedy has a good point, there is no way in hell the red sox let Manny just walk knowing the position the yankees are in and the fact that Manny wants to play for them as well. It seems like common sense to me but picking up his option sounds like a given and as someone has mentioned in another thread, they may do what the yankees did with Sheffield, a sign and trade. That idea sounds more likely then the Red Sox just letting Manny go to the yankees

97'bulls
07-22-2008, 06:20 PM
Manny is manny... we all know this. He is a major part of this team as far as chemistry goes. Also Papi has said that if Manny is unfairly treated then he will ask to be traded. Now he said this a while ago but I think that Ortiz would still be pissed. We gotta make him a respectable offer... something like 3 years with a fourth option. team option.

Tragedy
07-22-2008, 07:18 PM
Manny is manny... we all know this. He is a major part of this team as far as chemistry goes. Also Papi has said that if Manny is unfairly treated then he will ask to be traded. Now he said this a while ago but I think that Ortiz would still be pissed. We gotta make him a respectable offer... something like 3 years with a fourth option. team option.
Ah, horsecrap. That's what I think when I hear a player say that.

I remember Kevin Millar, Johnny Damon, and Bill Mueller all said they wanted to play on the same team when they all became FA's after the 2005 season. I believe it was Ramirez who said that if Millar was on a new team in 2006, he wanted to be on that same team.

Silly.

ccspence8
07-22-2008, 07:25 PM
2B Pedroia
1B Youkilis
DH Ortiz
LF Ramirez
RF Holliday
CF Drew
3B Lowell
C Varitek
SS Lowrie/Lugo

Bench
Ellsbury


You can switch between Manny, Ellsbury, Holliday, Drew, Ortiz


Then Theo can decide if he wants to keep Manny. Which I hope he can sign him for less money.

homie564
07-22-2008, 09:21 PM
you cant bech ellsbury seeing hes a runner for ROY

97'bulls
07-22-2008, 09:26 PM
Ah, horsecrap. That's what I think when I hear a player say that.

I remember Kevin Millar, Johnny Damon, and Bill Mueller all said they wanted to play on the same team when they all became FA's after the 2005 season. I believe it was Ramirez who said that if Millar was on a new team in 2006, he wanted to be on that same team.

Silly.

well that's what he said

Greenmonster24
07-22-2008, 09:29 PM
Millar and Damon and Mueller were all role players. Manny and Ortiz were the stars in the lineup. The role players will change year to year as one will be to expensive. However Manny and Ortiz are the superstars that we relie on heavy. They drive in all the runs. Without Manny Ortiz will walk over 200 times a year. So far letting Mueller and Damon and Millar leave looks like a good thing as we replace them with Lowell which got us Beckett and Youk and Crisp/Ellsbury. How nice Lowell and Drew are there not middle of lineup material either is Youk. You need Holliday or Texierra or Howard or Fielder or Dunn to replace Manny homers and Manny still has a OBP of .400 right now which is very impressive.

yaowowrocket11
07-22-2008, 09:30 PM
you cant bech ellsbury seeing hes a runner for ROY

Even if he is a contender for Rookie of the Year, he is having a pretty rough season, batting wise.

.262 BA, .332 OBP, .693 OPS, 82 OPS+

Not impressive numbers at all.

NESports2004
07-22-2008, 09:50 PM
2B Pedroia
1B Youkilis
DH Ortiz
LF Ramirez
RF Holliday
CF Drew
3B Lowell
C Varitek
SS Lowrie/Lugo


1-7 is un ****in believable lol

but yeah this lineup looks damn good and ellsbury will finally get some much needed rest.

If we get them to throw in fuentes we are set to bring home another title

Towelie
07-22-2008, 09:57 PM
you cant bech ellsbury seeing hes a runner for ROY

not with Longoria anywhere near the majors.

RedSoxtober
07-23-2008, 12:31 AM
Its the truth though. He may be great in Fenway, well to bad only half of the games are played there. He's a completely diff hitter outside of Coors, the stats dont lie, 300 god damn points in OPS, thats a huge diff, 200+ points in slg is also a huge diff. Im sorry you just cant see the facts

If you want to deal with the facts then go check the splits I posted on Holliday here (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5819015&postcount=184). As I predicted there, there is going to be a very shortsighted "look at his splits" argument. However, if you look at that post you'll note:

1. The road splits were disproportionately dragged down by his rookie and sophomore seasons.
2. His 2006, 2007, and 2008 (so far) splits still display a difference but nowhere near the difference you're using to suggest it's a bad idea.
3. Project his road numbers for that period and you've got someone who'll surpass Manny's recent 'success'.

CELTS20
07-23-2008, 02:22 AM
If I were the Red Sox I would make a run to sign Texiera at the end of the season, and then if he signs drop Manny's option and trade Youkilis to Colorado for Holliday.

gcoll
07-23-2008, 02:52 AM
I'd pass.

He's gonna be extremely expensive, and his home/road splits aren't exactly encouraging.

Beno7500
07-23-2008, 04:12 AM
If we let Manny walk, I see him with the Mets.

ZHawk1123
07-23-2008, 06:46 AM
If you want to deal with the facts then go check the splits I posted on Holliday here (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5819015&postcount=184). As I predicted there, there is going to be a very shortsighted "look at his splits" argument. However, if you look at that post you'll note:

1. The road splits were disproportionately dragged down by his rookie and sophomore seasons.
2. His 2006, 2007, and 2008 (so far) splits still display a difference but nowhere near the difference you're using to suggest it's a bad idea.
3. Project his road numbers for that period and you've got someone who'll surpass Manny's recent 'success'.


I'd pass.

He's gonna be extremely expensive, and his home/road splits aren't exactly encouraging.

Can you people please listen to what RedSoxtober is saying...?

Do some research...

Shaiza
07-23-2008, 08:36 AM
Can you people please listen to what RedSoxtober is saying...?

Do some research...

Yeah seriously.

lil'papi
07-23-2008, 09:05 AM
I've posted his splits RST has posted the recent splits. People totally discount Fenway as a hitters park! It's silly to think he won't hit at Fenway.
The kid is 6'4" 230lbs.......he also has 13 SB with one CS. So he can obviously run better than clodirez. Manny has gotten so one dimensional its crazy everyone just flat out discounts defense. Defense is a HUGE part of BB. Manny is decent at Fenway and awful away.
I've never heard complaints about Hollidays defense. I've never seen him flop , not run out balls.

His splits look awful because he hit .240 his first year the second he hit .256 away. Take them out and he is just fine away.

He hits in any count to boot.

Sign me up.

Also WE have Manny's rights for the next two years. He wants a longterm deal ~obviously~ by signing Borass. I would be OK if we can't get Holliday to resign Manny to a 3/45 mil deal. Give him a 4th year option. (team)
At least explore it for less money. He makes sense if we can't replace him.
Remember he is declining and Holliday isn't. That's not a small thing to overlook!

Manny should be awesome this year it's contract time. He isn't more than likely never will be again. He should get paid like his production , not past production.

He goes to the open market (holliday) teams will jack his pricetag. I'm not so sure Borass has the leverage he used to with players either. I was surprised Manny went with him.

Manny to the NYY is hilarious cut off the locks and Girardi and him would be oil and water. He would be chastised daily. I don't see it , no way.