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View Full Version : Why Can't They Win On The Road?



vredsox
07-21-2008, 12:19 PM
I Love My Sox, But This Team Needs A Kick In The Butt. Clay Needs To Go Down, And Bring Masterson Back Up As A Starter..i Just Don't Have A Good Feeling This Year.

Tragedy
07-21-2008, 12:21 PM
Masterson has been called up to pitch out of the bullpen, and that's where he is most needed.

Clay hasn't been good in his first two starts back, but that's not a huge deal. Beckett/Wakefield/Matsuzaka/Lester are ALL pitching well.

The bullpen needs the most work, so it makes the most sense for Masterson to go there for the rest of the year. He'll likely be a big upgrade, as now we see Delcarmen or Hansen in less pressurized roles.

Most importantly: We play a TON of home games in September, so we have that on our side.

vredsox
07-21-2008, 12:33 PM
I Still Don't Know Why They Can't Win On The Road. The Spankees Are Getting Hot, And Tampa Just May Be For Real.

Brooke
07-21-2008, 01:08 PM
I am annoyed as anyone at how they play on the road BUT the bullpen is what they need the most help and that is why they are trying Masterson there, something has to be done. Getting to Paps is a big problem right now

I also think getting Ortiz back will be a big help

we will see how hot the Yankees are when they play the Sox this weekend at Fenway. Besides they have their work cut out for them with the Twins coming to town

PeteyDoesKarate
07-21-2008, 01:27 PM
I'm not too worried since the Rays can't win on the road either, and they basically play the entire month of September on the road... if the yankees get hot that might be interesting, but I dont think they have the pitching to be consistent.

RedSoxtober
07-21-2008, 11:15 PM
Masterson has been called up to pitch out of the bullpen, and that's where he is most needed.

Clay hasn't been good in his first two starts back, but that's not a huge deal. Beckett/Wakefield/Matsuzaka/Lester are ALL pitching well.

The bullpen needs the most work, so it makes the most sense for Masterson to go there for the rest of the year. He'll likely be a big upgrade, as now we see Delcarmen or Hansen in less pressurized roles.

Most importantly: We play a TON of home games in September, so we have that on our side.

The home games are a bit overstated. It's true that they play 16/25 at home in Sep... but they play 16/25 games on the road right before that. It's really not that big an advantage since they could dig themselves a big hole in Aug.

BTW, Clay has been awful in MLB since he got hammered by DET. Whatever work he did in PAW needs to be recaptured -- it hasn't hit MLB yet. It must be a Doppler effect...

asomen
07-21-2008, 11:30 PM
The home games are a bit overstated. It's true that they play 16/25 at home in Sep... but they play 16/25 games on the road right before that. It's really not that big an advantage since they could dig themselves a big hole in Aug.

BTW, Clay has been awful in MLB since he got hammered by DET. Whatever work he did in PAW needs to be recaptured -- it hasn't hit MLB yet. It must be a Doppler effect...

To tell you the truth...I think we should package Buckholtz in a deal at the deadline. This is my theory why...right now is trade value is relatively high because of his potential. And at the AAA level he has shown why he is regarded as a great young pitcher. But in the MLB level besides the no hitter...he gets hit pretty hard. Now...maybe its a physcological thing or bad luck...

but it could be that being at the MLB level just scares him and is alot more comfortable facing AAA batters. whatever the case is...I think buckholtz will always be this kind of pitcher. One outting he can go out and throw 6 innings of great baseball. But then he will have 2 or 3 outings in a row where the ball is jumping off the bat. I don't see that changing throughout his career...he just seems to be an inconsitent pitcher.

I don't think he has the dominant stuff to dominate this league...just my thoughts. I say package him in a deal while his value is still very high and get maybe a Holliday or Bay or Texiera or whatever...while not having to give up an allstar.

RedSoxtober
07-21-2008, 11:34 PM
Buchholz is only 23 (24 next month) and has thrown less than 75 innings in his career. He just might need a little more time in MLB before you decide that he's never going to make it. We've seen what he is capable of... now it remains to be seen whether or not he can reproduce it and it'll take more than ten starts to do that.

kazzy4080
07-21-2008, 11:40 PM
yeah im not giving up on clay yet (even though we have a couple of young pitchers in the minors and we have beckett, lester, dice-k for long deals so eventually we r gonna have to deal one of our young pitchers) but maybe if clay has a couple of more ****** starts we can bring up one of our young pitchers for a start, bowden?

gcoll
07-22-2008, 01:12 AM
Trade Clay??? What?

Come on. I recall 2 years ago or so, everyone being up in arms when we didn't pull the trigger on a deal that would have gotten us Andruw Jones for Jon Lester.

Gotta give young pitchers some time.

Anyway. Why can't we win on the road? Not so sure. I think they can correct it though. And we've played more road games than everyone else. It'll correct itself. I'm not too worried.

asomen
07-22-2008, 01:37 AM
Trade Clay??? What?

Come on. I recall 2 years ago or so, everyone being up in arms when we didn't pull the trigger on a deal that would have gotten us Andruw Jones for Jon Lester.

Gotta give young pitchers some time.

Anyway. Why can't we win on the road? Not so sure. I think they can correct it though. And we've played more road games than everyone else. It'll correct itself. I'm not too worried.

I'm only saying that because he has the most trade potential out of all the arms in our system. It isn't physically possible to keep all these arms in AAA their whole careers...we will eventually need to open up some spots for guys like bowden zink masterson etc...

Why not look to trade him while his value is still high? because the ways things are going his value will only drop when teams see he is constantly inconsistent in starts.

gcoll
07-22-2008, 01:58 AM
we will eventually need to open up some spots for guys like bowden zink masterson etc
You can never have enough pitching.

And you don't just start giving away promising young pitching talent, to make room for lesser young pitching talents.


because the ways things are going his value will only drop when teams see he is constantly inconsistent in starts.
With Clay's age, and time in the majors...the ONLY thing teams will look at is potential.

Of course he's been inconsistent. That's what young pitchers do.

asomen
07-22-2008, 02:05 AM
You can never have enough pitching.

And you don't just start giving away promising young pitching talent, to make room for lesser young pitching talents.


With Clay's age, and time in the majors...the ONLY thing teams will look at is potential.

Of course he's been inconsistent. That's what young pitchers do.


First of all...when I say trade Clay...I am obviously only refferring to a good trade for us too. I am not saying trade him for a temporary relief pitcher or a guy whose contract is expiring next season.

I'm saying if the deal is right and the guy we get can help us in the long run too...why not? Maybe like a Holliday or someone like that...we would obviously have to have more than Clay...but he would be a good piece to that.

And your second point...you are right. It is pure speculation and it is my opinion when i say clay is inconsistent. You don't have to agree...I am just basing it off of what I have seen him do in the majors. What he does from here on out is completly random. For me to say I know what I am talking or for you to say you know what you are talkin about is all speculation. So time will tell how he does in the majors.

lil'papi
07-22-2008, 09:26 AM
To tell you the truth...I think we should package Buckholtz in a deal at the deadline. This is my theory why...right now is trade value is relatively high because of his potential. And at the AAA level he has shown why he is regarded as a great young pitcher. But in the MLB level besides the no hitter...he gets hit pretty hard. Now...maybe its a physcological thing or bad luck...

but it could be that being at the MLB level just scares him and is alot more comfortable facing AAA batters. whatever the case is...I think buckholtz will always be this kind of pitcher. One outting he can go out and throw 6 innings of great baseball. But then he will have 2 or 3 outings in a row where the ball is jumping off the bat. I don't see that changing throughout his career...he just seems to be an inconsitent pitcher.

I don't think he has the dominant stuff to dominate this league...just my thoughts. I say package him in a deal while his value is still very high and get maybe a Holliday or Bay or Texiera or whatever...while not having to give up an allstar.

Sounds like a conversation I had this spring about Lester. No evals are done based on 75 innings or 175 innings. Way to early , I can as I did with Lester show you a million examples.
Guys need time to develop at this level.

BTW, his trade value will not change one iota this year no matter what he does. Teams know it takes time to develop. They see 93-96mph on the gun and nasty secondaries to boot.
Why do teams always include Buchholz and Lester in trades , now Bowden and Masterson too? Because they see solid young arms.

I'm fine with trading one of these guys if it's to get Holliday over the winter months.

Once he settles in gets his confidence then lets see. Say after a full season at this level beyond this year. So after 275-300 innings. We can then get a better feel.

Same with Ellsbury and Lowrie we need a bigger example. Let them settle in.....

Once the BP gets settled we will win road games. (hopefully soon)

We need Beckett to step up too. NOW!

RedSoxtober
07-22-2008, 02:36 PM
I'm fine with trading one of these guys if it's to get Holliday over the winter months.


I'm not all that excited about getting Holliday in the offseason. I just did a little homework and noticed that Abreu, Matsui, and Damon are all done in NYY by the end of Holliday's contract. Is there even the slightest doubt that Boras takes him to FA with those likely openings in the Yankee OF?

Trading two contributors for one year of Holliday doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Trading for a year and a half makes more sense, if Manny moves...

lil'papi
07-23-2008, 10:02 AM
I'm not all that excited about getting Holliday in the offseason. I just did a little homework and noticed that Abreu, Matsui, and Damon are all done in NYY by the end of Holliday's contract. Is there even the slightest doubt that Boras takes him to FA with those likely openings in the Yankee OF?

Trading two contributors for one year of Holliday doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Trading for a year and a half makes more sense, if Manny moves...

You are overstating Boras's ability to influence deals. (think ARod) Plus NY will re-sign a couple of them if they follow their script. Maybe all three? or maybe posada deal influences them to be wiser?

I doubt any moves get made anyway till winter. Boras has been a good fit with Theo and getting things done. Think Tek...he has a few others that balked at his antics too.

If Holliday came here was a good fit he would be signed early, imo.

I am not running Manny out of town. I personally would like to see his production down the stretch. This way no top prospects go bye-bye.

He is running himself out of town.

RedSoxtober
07-23-2008, 03:49 PM
I'm not sure how I'm overstating Boras' ability to influence deals. I am not saying that Boras will get Holliday a deal in NYY, only that he will see the openings in the NYY OF as incentive to get Holliday on the market. Damon and Matsui have deals ending next year. At the very least there are two holes to plug and neither of those guys will likely remain. Abreu might have a shot depending on what he seeks this year.

asomen
07-23-2008, 03:55 PM
I'm not sure how I'm overstating Boras' ability to influence deals. I am not saying that Boras will get Holliday a deal in NYY, only that he will see the openings in the NYY OF as incentive to get Holliday on the market. Damon and Matsui have deals ending next year. At the very least there are two holes to plug and neither of those guys will likely remain. Abreu might have a shot depending on what he seeks this year.


No way they resign damon...but why not resign matsui? When healthy he is still one of the top producers for the yankees...he still has 25 homerun 100 rbi power. He hasn't really shown any sign of declining...

meanwhile damon is only declining more and more every year. he can't even play LF anymore...they are loaded at dh...and they have alot of OF rookies to satisfy the speed damon brought to the table and the leadoff potential.

RedSoxtober
07-23-2008, 04:23 PM
No way they resign damon...but why not resign matsui? When healthy he is still one of the top producers for the yankees...he still has 25 homerun 100 rbi power. He hasn't really shown any sign of declining...

meanwhile damon is only declining more and more every year. he can't even play LF anymore...they are loaded at dh...and they have alot of OF rookies to satisfy the speed damon brought to the table and the leadoff potential.

Missing 2/3 of one season and now on another protracted DL stint. He might possibly remain as a DH but I have my doubts.