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View Full Version : Talks with Deng, Gordon keep Paxson from acting quickly on roster moves



JordansBulls
07-19-2008, 10:09 AM
Source: ChicagoSports (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-17-johnson-on-bullsjul17,1,1719162.story)



More than two weeks have passed since NBA free agency began. Do you know where your 2008-09 Bulls roster is?

General manager John Paxson has stated publicly that no moves can be made until the organization has cost certainty regarding restricted free agents Luol Deng and Ben Gordon. Paxson also has said establishing the team's salary structure would be a priority he would like achieved sooner rather than later.


Negotiations between the Bulls and representatives for Deng and Gordon are ongoing, professional—and far apart.

Deng and Gordon have slightly more leverage than last summer, when they turned down five-year extension offers for $57.5 million and $50 million, respectively. They can solicit offer sheets, although only Memphis can currently offer more than the midlevel salary-cap exception, and Grizzlies ownership is in cost-saving mode. They can threaten to sign one-year tender offers and become unrestricted free agents next summer, when the Bulls could lose them for nothing.

Yet there's a reason the restricted free-agent market typically moves slowly. With the team holding the right to match any offer, players have some leverage, but not much.

One reason Deng and Gordon gave for rejecting last year's extensions was that both planned to have greater individual and team success last season. That didn't happen. To pin the blame on Deng and Gordon is wrong because the train wreck involved one and all.




Indeed, there's a reason Paxson didn't start shopping Kirk Hinrich for a proven frontcourt player immediately after drafting Derrick Rose. Imagine this scenario: The Bulls trade Hinrich, fail to sign Gordon to an extension and then lose him as an unrestricted free agent in 2009.

Suddenly, a crowded backcourt becomes a crevice. And the Bulls, in that scenario, would be left with Rose, Thabo Sefolosha and Larry Hughes.

jon-jon
07-19-2008, 10:37 AM
Rarely do pro athletes sacrifice themselves for the good of the team.....

tduncanspeaks
07-19-2008, 10:54 AM
This was a total cop out piece
other teams have been aggressive even though they have had roster uncertainty.
They actually were aggressive because they had roster uncertainty!
If LAC had not signed Davis what would they be looking like now?
signing Brand was a very smart idea for the 6ers, even though Iggy is still unsigned.
This was just a waisted dumbass article that further pacifies the ineptitude of this franchise:mad:

Vincent
07-19-2008, 11:33 AM
This was a total cop out piece
other teams have been aggressive even though they have had roster uncertainty.
They actually were aggressive because they had roster uncertainty!
If LAC had not signed Davis what would they be looking like now?
signing Brand was a very smart idea for the 6ers, even though Iggy is still unsigned.
This was just a waisted dumbass article that further pacifies the ineptitude of this franchise:mad:

LAC and 76ers had cap room even if they did resign their restricted agents.

The Bulls are in a different financial position.

You can't make assumptions that the Bulls are financially in the same position as other teams, just because other teams make moves.

Tyrus Thomas
07-19-2008, 11:34 AM
This was a total cop out piece
other teams have been aggressive even though they have had roster uncertainty.
They actually were aggressive because they had roster uncertainty!
If LAC had not signed Davis what would they be looking like now?
signing Brand was a very smart idea for the 6ers, even though Iggy is still unsigned.
This was just a waisted dumbass article that further pacifies the ineptitude of this franchise:mad:

Not really, they signed Davis for Brand. That was the point of Brand opting out.

Phili signed Brand in hopes that Iggy would want to play for them more and take a little cut in pay.

GS know that they have Ellis wrapped up and the Turiaf signing was because Biedrins doesnt look like he is going to be back but they have certanty that he probably wont sign a long tem deal. The Maggette signing seems more of a you took our player so im going to take yours.

We are in the same situation as GS, but the difference is is that both these guys have said that they want to return to the team long term. That is what is making it hard because you know they want to be here but they still dont want to take what they played for last year.

So yes it makes sense, but only to a point. Why cant we still trade trade Kirk and whatever and get a frontcourt player? All we have to do is sign a FA point backup. Still i understand where he is coming from.

bull02198
07-19-2008, 11:57 AM
Well from what I'm aware of, the original plan was for Brand to opt so they could sign BOTH Davis and Brand. But Brand changed his mind. Also, the Warriors have every intention of re-signing Ellis and Biedrins to long term contracts (my friend is a Warriors fan so I follow them closely).

I understand that everything is about money now. Deng and Gordon were offered more than fair deals last year and they turned them down which lead to an awful season for the whole team. I would hate to see them sign one year tender deals because that might lead them to play as crappy as they did this season.

Keep Deng. Sign and trade Gordon. I wouldn't be surprised to see Hinrich in a Bulls uniform next season. I really hope Paxson can come through this off-season.

lyknoother33
07-19-2008, 01:31 PM
Rarely do pro athletes sacrifice themselves for the good of the team.....

I blame the greed on the owners for offering such contracts to pimp these players.

lyknoother33
07-19-2008, 01:36 PM
LAC and 76ers had cap room even if they did resign their restricted agents.

The Bulls are in a different financial position.

You can't make assumptions that the Bulls are financially in the same position as other teams, just because other teams make moves.

I believe the point he is making is that teams are actually making moves. Some teams are making moves to clear up cap space.

The Bulls have pieces to trade, but are not doing it. Pax is back in safe mode again.

JordansBulls
07-19-2008, 01:49 PM
I believe the point he is making is that teams are actually making moves. Some teams are making moves to clear up cap space.

The Bulls have pieces to trade, but are not doing it. Pax is back in safe mode again.

But I think it says what most expected. No moves will be made until we figure out what happens with Deng and Gordon.

ChitownbullsBG7
07-19-2008, 02:36 PM
i hope they hurry up and get deals done this is starting to get ridiculous. I go on vacation and hope by the time i get back i see a thread on their signings and instead i find this.

SDBearsFan
07-19-2008, 06:04 PM
Yeah. As it stands, I don't think we can resign Deng and Gordon both to what they want. I think once Deng signs, Gordon gets traded, and we start to move on with off-season moves. But you can't make trades without knowing your salary cap. Paxsons not in "safe mode", he's waiting on Reinsdorf and Deng to come up with something, and then I'm positive he'll make his moves.

As for the hype about the Clippers and 76ers making big moves; great. We couldn't give either of them a contract, so of course we weren't players in that. They had money, they made moves.

JordansBulls
07-19-2008, 07:38 PM
Yeah. As it stands, I don't think we can resign Deng and Gordon both to what they want. I think once Deng signs, Gordon gets traded, and we start to move on with off-season moves. But you can't make trades without knowing your salary cap. Paxsons not in "safe mode", he's waiting on Reinsdorf and Deng to come up with something, and then I'm positive he'll make his moves.

As for the hype about the Clippers and 76ers making big moves; great. We couldn't give either of them a contract, so of course we weren't players in that. They had money, they made moves.


Deng might settle for 11 a year for 4 or 5 years.

DamnGoat
07-19-2008, 07:46 PM
In other news: The Sky is Blue.

We've known for a while that these guys either need to be signed or dealt before we do anything else.

The longer it takes, the longer it's going to be before this cluttered roster is cleaned up bit.

rico
07-19-2008, 09:13 PM
In other news: The Sky is Blue.

We've known for a while that these guys either need to be signed or dealt before we do anything else.

The longer it takes, the longer it's going to be before this cluttered roster is cleaned up bit.

This just in! The world is in fact ROUND. Thats right previous assumptions that the world was flat have been refuted.

infinity2152
07-19-2008, 10:55 PM
doesn't make sense for us to make trades until we deal with Deng and Gordon for several reasons. One, if we re-sign one or both, that severely limits our cap space and who we can pursue. If one or both sign their qualifying offer, we have more cap room. If someone steals one(not likely) we'll have more cap room. Second, if they don't re-sign they may be used in a sign/trade, and we can combine them with the players people want to trade to get a star. Third, we don't know yet if we need to replace one or both, so what position would we trade to get right now? we use Hinrich to get a Back-up big now, lose deng to FA, and then where are we at? You can't add pieces until you know what you're adding to, and these are two guys who play big minutes. Kinda important to know whether they'll be here and how much it costs, before we use our good pieces in trade.

infinity2152
07-19-2008, 10:57 PM
Deng was actually scheduled to visit the Clips before they made the move for Camby (dumb move, Clips!!) They would have done much better offering Deng a few mill more than Camby and see if the Bulls match. Camby wasn't going anywhere else.

mschmidt64
07-21-2008, 11:05 AM
Trade 'em both.

Throw in Hinrich and Thomas while you're at it.

ChitownbullsBG7
07-21-2008, 11:27 AM
Haha you just made it official. You think this is just like a game.

mschmidt64
07-21-2008, 11:28 AM
Haha you just made it official. You think this is just like a game.

Basketball IS a game.

kozelkid
07-21-2008, 11:30 AM
Haha you just made it official. You think this is just like a game.

what's funny is that he thinks our players our trash yet he can trade it for other teams' superstars.
Especially when no superstar of even good player is really available currently.

ChitownbullsBG7
07-21-2008, 11:31 AM
Was that suppose to be funny? Well i will give you an F for eFFort.

Oh so you do think your playing 2k8 and that you can trade everyone on your roster for other guys.

mschmidt64
07-21-2008, 11:38 AM
Was that suppose to be funny? Well i will give you an F for eFFort.

Oh so you do think your playing 2k8 and that you can trade everyone on your roster for other guys.

You like to keep talking about video games.

Which is ironic, since you and your boyfriend kozel here are the two posters I've seen who are the farthest removed from reality, generally.

Do you guys plan on these tag-team events? You follow him around all day. Seriously, it's kinda homoerotic.

kozelkid
07-21-2008, 11:48 AM
You like to keep talking about video games.

Which is ironic, since you and your boyfriend kozel here are the two posters I've seen who are the farthest removed from reality, generally.

Do you guys plan on these tag-team events? You follow him around all day. Seriously, it's kinda homoerotic.

is that a joke lol? you ACTUALLY proposed the idea of having a core of rose-melo-bosh, lmfao :laugh:. You think that even though you consider players on this team trash, you can trade them for great players lol, that isnt even exaggerattion, that's just plain stupidity. So again, I ask you, if you our players arent good, why would any other team think the same and trade a superstar for them? oh right they wouldnt, but you would just play nba 2k8 and turn that option where you force teams to accept that trades.

ChitownbullsBG7
07-21-2008, 11:50 AM
You like to keep talking about video games.

Which is ironic, since you and your boyfriend kozel here are the two posters I've seen who are the farthest removed from reality, generally.

Do you guys plan on these tag-team events? You follow him around all day. Seriously, it's kinda homoerotic.

Yeah your right. I mean whenever you see me an kozel post, we agree on everything and attack others.:rolleyes:

99.1% of the time we disagree on everything. We dont get along that well but we respect each other as posters.

Ok now im going to say this once and i hope you understand. Trading 4 of your best players NEVER happens except in video games which you seem to live in. Just sayin....................:smoking:

mschmidt64
07-21-2008, 11:58 AM
Ok now im going to say this once and i hope you understand. Trading 4 of your best players NEVER happens except in video games which you seem to live in. Just sayin....................:smoking:

First of all, you've already said that more than once.

Second, teams make blockbuster deals. It happens.

Third, TT and Ben Gordon are not our best players. Rose is. Deng is probably second, but then, Al Jefferson was probably the Celtics second best player.

Fourth, I said throw those guys in because I don't really care which of them go. If you want to make it just three guys instead of four, I'd still applaud the move.

ChitownbullsBG7
07-21-2008, 12:08 PM
First of all, you've already said that more than once.

Second, teams make blockbuster deals. It happens.

Third, TT and Ben Gordon are not our best players. Rose is. Deng is probably second, but then, Al Jefferson was probably the Celtics second best player.

Fourth, I said throw those guys in because I don't really care which of them go. If you want to make it just three guys instead of four, I'd still applaud the move.

Rose is not our best player. Want to compar Stats? He is our most valuable.

Jefferson was just ONE of their top players. You just said trade Deng, Gordon, Kirk, TT, and Gordon. Those are our 5 best players.

Name one trade in NBA history that a team traded their 5 best players in ONE offseason.

kozelkid
07-21-2008, 12:08 PM
First of all, you've already said that more than once.

Second, teams make blockbuster deals. It happens.

Third, TT and Ben Gordon are not our best players. Rose is. Deng is probably second, but then, Al Jefferson was probably the Celtics second best player.

Fourth, I said throw those guys in because I don't really care which of them go. If you want to make it just three guys instead of four, I'd still applaud the move.

You are calling rose the best player when he hasnt even played a single nba game :eyebrow:. Look I do think he will be great but he has a season or 2 before he will be the best because at this point hinrich deng and gordon are all better than him. i gaurentee you that as a rookie he wont be any better than say a devin harris. Question: will you complain and say he's awful then since you have some strange belief that what you see from day one, is what you get.
also comparing deng to al jefferson is as farfetched as ever. AJ will be a star pf, maybe even superstar, deng is a borlderine allstar at best. Whose the homer now?
Of course you dont care how "to throw" the players in, cause it isnt realistic to begin with and you cant think of one decent trade that can net us a young superstar that way.
Finally, sure blockbuster deals happen, with good players or shitload of expirings, we dont many expirings and apparentely by your accoutn we dont have good players, the again NOW you are saying deng is the next AJ :rolleyes:. make up your mind lol.

mschmidt64
07-21-2008, 12:22 PM
You are calling rose the best player when he hasnt even played a single nba game :eyebrow:.

Yep.


Look I do think he will be great but he has a season or 2 before he will be the best because at this point hinrich deng and gordon are all better than him.

I'm talking about his value to us in the future. Clearly it is the most, and it's not even close.


i gaurentee you that as a rookie he wont be any better than say a devin harris. Question: will you complain and say he's awful then since you have some strange belief that what you see from day one, is what you get.

:laugh

Why do I have that "strange belief"? Because I don't think TT will ever be a great offensive player?

Yeah, clearly because I think that ONE player won't develop magically skills he doesn't have, I must think that all of them won't develop. Sound reasoning there.


also comparing deng to al jefferson is as farfetched as ever. AJ will be a star pf, maybe even superstar, deng is a borlderine allstar at best. Whose the homer now?

Not me.

I'm not comparing Deng to AJ. I don't think Deng will ever be even close to what AJ can be.

Just saying, we could trade him for something and it wouldn't be unprecedented to trade your 2nd most valuable player.


Finally, sure blockbuster deals happen, with good players or ****load of expirings, we dont many expirings and apparentely by your accoutn we dont have good players

We'd have two expirings if we signed Gordon and Deng to 1 year extensions and then traded them.

chicagowhitesox
07-21-2008, 03:33 PM
Go after Josh Smith and let Deng walk. S&T Gordon for a big.

JordansBulls
07-21-2008, 04:01 PM
Go after Josh Smith and let Deng walk. S&T Gordon for a big.

Josh Smith had been playing PF for the Hawks

Bg7getclutch
07-21-2008, 04:05 PM
Josh Smith had been playing PF for the Hawks
If we had josh smith with tyrus and noah, That willl be a sick front court. We definitley need to add a veteran player on this team. I wish we had pj brown as an assistant coach for this team. He's good with young players.

kozelkid
07-21-2008, 05:45 PM
Yep.



I'm talking about his value to us in the future. Clearly it is the most, and it's not even close.



:laugh

Why do I have that "strange belief"? Because I don't think TT will ever be a great offensive player?

Yeah, clearly because I think that ONE player won't develop magically skills he doesn't have, I must think that all of them won't develop. Sound reasoning there.



Not me.

I'm not comparing Deng to AJ. I don't think Deng will ever be even close to what AJ can be.

Just saying, we could trade him for something and it wouldn't be unprecedented to trade your 2nd most valuable player.



We'd have two expirings if we signed Gordon and Deng to 1 year extensions and then traded them.

(a) 10mil of total expirings form gordon and deng isnt great expirings, expecially when that team knows that each play will expect a big extension.
(b)Deng maybe the second best, even though he is the best currently on this team, he still wont land you a superstar whetehr you like it or not.
(c)I guess bynum, david west, and JO all "magically" developed skills, right? :eyebrow:
In fact if you paid attention you would see that tyrus already has a good consistent mid range shot and has improved his ft shooting astronomically. See, I dont care if you dont believe he will be good. that's fine, we have plenty of people who feel that way. However, you dont "know" ****. You may believe he wont ever be good just like I believe he can be good, but again you dont know ****. End of story, and we shall see this season what will happen. he also has the athleticism that says he does have the ability to become a good scoring big.