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JordansBulls
07-18-2008, 06:51 PM
Voting for #5 has concluded and PSD's Official #5 Player of all time is....

Bill Russell

http://www.nba.com/media/history/russell_bio_lg.jpg


15.1 PPG | 22.5 RPG | 4.3 AST | .440% FG | 18.88 PER


Achievements:

12 time All-Star
11 NBA Championships (Winniest Player Ever)
5 Time MVP
1 Time AllStar Game MVP
1 Time All-NBA First Teamer
3 Time All Defensive First Teamer
Led the League in Rebounding 4 times



Bill Russell = 59 votes
Shaquille O'Neal = 11 votes
Hakeem Olajuwon = 10 votes
Larry Bird = 9 votes
Oscar Robertson = 5 votes
Tim Duncan = 3 votes
Jerry West = 2 votes
Julius Erving = 1 vote
Other = 4 votes



The List:
1. Michael Jordan (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242529)
2. Wilt Chamberlain (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243543)
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244377)
4. Magic Johnson (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245662)
5. Bill Russell (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246661)


Voting will now begin for the sixth greatest player of all time....

ManRam
07-18-2008, 06:56 PM
Comes down to Larry Legend and Shaq IMO. I took Larry. Amazing ability to pass, shoot, score and rebound. No real weaknesses. He was sooo clutch too. If he never had back problems, his career would be regarded even higher than it already is.

3 time MVP, which more than Shaq and Hakeem and Oscar's one a piece.

Ramon Nivar
07-18-2008, 06:57 PM
Shaq... Again. :sigh:

Russell would go here on my list since Shaq would have went a while back.

JIDsanity
07-18-2008, 07:08 PM
I voted Big O, but I should have went with Larry. This is definitely Larry

Vidball
07-18-2008, 07:12 PM
Shaq...if all those players were available, who would you take? Nobody was ever able to stop a Shaq in his prime. Hakeem did a number on him when Shaq was young, and now that he's washed up he'll get beat down by a couple of Centers now and then, but in his prime Shaq was as dominant as anyone.

dre1990
07-18-2008, 07:15 PM
BIG O fo the 3rd time

dre1990
07-18-2008, 07:16 PM
Shaq...if all those players were available, who would you take? Nobody was ever able to stop a Shaq in his prime. Hakeem did a number on him when Shaq was young, and now that he's washed up he'll get beat down by a couple of Centers now and then, but in his prime Shaq was as dominant as anyone.

i would take the dream AND moses over shaq when all 3 where in there prime

yaowowrocket11
07-18-2008, 07:18 PM
Larry Bird is the 6th best player, IMO. He played the game like every kid dreams of doing, and won championships. What more can you ask for? An absolutely amazing player.

Jay22Redd
07-18-2008, 07:26 PM
This my third time voting for HAKEEM

Raptors27
07-18-2008, 07:32 PM
This is my 3rd time for Oscar Robertson lol

astrosmaniac
07-18-2008, 07:32 PM
larry then hakeem

raptors_516
07-18-2008, 07:40 PM
larry bird

phlp_bj
07-18-2008, 07:44 PM
Bird. just an awesome player that did many great things. i think shaq will be the 7th all time player

BlondeBomber41
07-18-2008, 08:27 PM
Tim Duncan! Fo sho....

Dominant offensive and defensive player, ultimate winner. Great team player and a model franchise player.

BaRRySandAmaN
07-18-2008, 08:52 PM
I would take Oscar Robertson here just above Larry Bird. The Big O was a Triple-Double waiting to happen every game, thats crazy :speechless:

Joshtd1
07-18-2008, 08:55 PM
Larry Legend

lalakobe24
07-18-2008, 08:57 PM
wtf where is kobe on that list

yu have duncan but not kobe wow

PhillyLuver
07-18-2008, 09:23 PM
Umm, of course...

Bird.

BigEric
07-18-2008, 09:34 PM
This one is Larry.

rhino17
07-18-2008, 10:11 PM
shaq isnt even the best center left on the list

but i would say either Bird or O next, followed by dream

shaq is not close to being 5th

GregOden#1
07-18-2008, 11:03 PM
Shaq is indeed the best center left...

rhino17
07-18-2008, 11:12 PM
Shaq is indeed the best center left...

shaq would be the 2nd best center left

BlondeBomber41
07-18-2008, 11:12 PM
wtf where is kobe on that list

yu have duncan but not kobe wow

Probably because Duncan is better than Kobe and is much more valuable. More of a winner, less of a nutcase, more of a real force on both ends of the floor than Kobe could ever be.

alexander_37
07-18-2008, 11:15 PM
DREAM!!!!!!! again

alexander_37
07-18-2008, 11:16 PM
Probably because Duncan is better than Kobe and is much more valuable. More of a winner, less of a nutcase, more of a real force on both ends of the floor than Kobe could ever be.

because duncan is a top 3 all time power forward

and kobe is a POS who rapes women

BlondeBomber41
07-18-2008, 11:21 PM
haha watch the video on my sig about Kobe...

lalakobe24
07-18-2008, 11:35 PM
Probably because Duncan is better than Kobe and is much more valuable. More of a winner, less of a nutcase, more of a real force on both ends of the floor than Kobe could ever be.

better than kobe :speechless:

wth

duncan is not even the best player on his team

and kobe is the best in the game

haters in this place

should have been

1 big o

2 mj

3 kobe

JIDsanity
07-18-2008, 11:35 PM
haha watch the video on my sig about Kobe...

Funny ****. :clap:

JIDsanity
07-18-2008, 11:36 PM
better than kobe :speechless:

wth

duncan is not even the best player on his team

and kobe is the best in the game

haters in this place

should have been

1 big o

2 mj

3 kobe

Cocaine is one hell of a drug

JordansBulls
07-18-2008, 11:45 PM
wtf where is kobe on that list

yu have duncan but not kobe wow


3 Finals MVP's.

Also Duncan has won as the team's best player, Kobe has not.

ARMIN12NBA
07-19-2008, 01:29 AM
3 Finals MVP's.

Also Duncan has won as the team's best player, Kobe has not.

Karl Malone has not won at all...Where are you putting him on this list? Exactly. You can't just base it on that. Base it on everything. Fact is, is that Kobe has won championships and without him, the Lakers would not have won them. Without Shaq, they would not have won. Without Horry in 02, they would not have won. Without Pippen, Jordan would not have won. Without MJ, Pippen would not have won. Without Robinson, Duncan would not have one and on and on and on. This is a team game. Winning is a team accomplishment. Kobe is a better player than Duncan even if his team was not good enough around him while he is in his prime (he still has more years to go). I think Kobe is a better all-around player than Duncan and definately has stats, winning, and accomplishments to back him up.

rhino17
07-19-2008, 03:32 AM
I hate kobe as much as the next guy, but he should be on the poll (idk if he was earlier or not)

Lakersfan2483
07-19-2008, 03:58 AM
I have not liked the list since it began, but I will say Shaq for the sake of argument, in my opinion, Shaq is top 5 all time, easily, look at his playoff stats and finals stats, with the exception of MJ, no one has those ridiculous numbers.

bostncelts34
07-19-2008, 07:48 AM
better than kobe :speechless:

wth

duncan is not even the best player on his team

and kobe is the best in the game

haters in this place

should have been

1 big o

2 mj

3 kobe

hahahahaha you my friend. Are crazy. Kobe before Bill?Wilt?Kareem?Bird? Hell, ima put kobe on the list behind SMush Parker. hahahaha

JordansBulls
07-19-2008, 08:53 AM
Karl Malone has not won at all...Where are you putting him on this list? Exactly. You can't just base it on that. Base it on everything. Fact is, is that Kobe has won championships and without him, the Lakers would not have won them. Without Shaq, they would not have won. Without Horry in 02, they would not have won. Without Pippen, Jordan would not have won. Without MJ, Pippen would not have won. Without Robinson, Duncan would not have one and on and on and on. This is a team game. Winning is a team accomplishment. Kobe is a better player than Duncan even if his team was not good enough around him while he is in his prime (he still has more years to go). I think Kobe is a better all-around player than Duncan and definately has stats, winning, and accomplishments to back him up.


It doesn't really matter who won without who, because this is not a whatif game. This is about ranking the greatest players ever and we base that on the entire range of criteria and a player that has never won as the teams best player should not be voted over someone that has more achievements and better numbers and more accolades period.

Also how does Kobe have the accomplishments over Duncan when he has never won as the teams best player and Duncan has 3 finals mvp's and 3 top 12 finals performances while Kobe had 0 in the top 50 when he has been in 5 finals?

Also you can vote for Kobe in the section that says Other but you gotta explain your vote. Kobe really shouldn't be anywhere greater than #10 now.

Also I don't think any player should be in that top 8 without winning multiple times as the teams best player or having mulitple finals/league mvp's with great stats.

LakerzDQ
07-19-2008, 08:59 AM
Kobe should at least be on the poll by now.
I'm not saying he will be better than Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem, Bird, but I think he deserves to be on the poll.

I think he's better than Julius Erving, Jerry West, Moses Malone. And you can make arguments against the other guys as well.

oh well. I guess it's just my opinion

JordansBulls
07-19-2008, 09:02 AM
Kobe should at least be on the poll by now.
I'm not saying he will be better than Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem, Bird, but I think he deserves to be on the poll.

I think he's better than Julius Erving, Jerry West, Moses Malone. And you can make arguments against the other guys as well.

oh well. I guess it's just my opinion

Kobe was going to be added in the next poll along with John Havlicek, and Elgin Baylor.

innovator
07-19-2008, 10:19 AM
so ur telling kobe is in the same level as havlicek and baylor??? kobe is in the level of bird,erving and west... this shouldnt be a finals MVP contest.. td is better than kobe cuz he has 3 finals mvp???? so that means tony parker and billups have 1 finals MVP so does that make them a better player? NO! this thread should be based on stats,awards and talent. without kobe shaq wouldnt even win 3 championships

KNICKSFAN
07-19-2008, 11:02 AM
Here come the Laker homers to ruin a thread once again... I would say Oscar though.

JordansBulls
07-19-2008, 01:06 PM
so ur telling kobe is in the same level as havlicek and baylor??? kobe is in the level of bird,erving and west... this shouldnt be a finals MVP contest.. td is better than kobe cuz he has 3 finals mvp???? so that means tony parker and billups have 1 finals MVP so does that make them a better player? NO! this thread should be based on stats,awards and talent. without kobe shaq wouldnt even win 3 championships

Exactly!! And that is what it is based on. Based on what the person has done and each of the players on the list has accomplished more.

bostncelts34
07-19-2008, 01:17 PM
so ur telling kobe is in the same level as havlicek and baylor??? kobe is in the level of bird,erving and west... this shouldnt be a finals MVP contest.. td is better than kobe cuz he has 3 finals mvp???? so that means tony parker and billups have 1 finals MVP so does that make them a better player? NO! this thread should be based on stats,awards and talent. without kobe shaq wouldnt even win 3 championships

NO way is kobe on the same level as Bird. Erving, havlicek and so on..maybe in that group. Stop ruining the thread complaining about kobe. i Dont think KObe belongs in the top 10. at 6 is bird, then we got shaq, Big O at 7 and 8..after that theres quite a few guys you can put at 9. but id say the dream.

Manny Paplfavre
07-19-2008, 01:31 PM
Bird

SpeeMN
07-19-2008, 01:35 PM
If Bird or Oscar don't get this spot it would be ashame

SpeeMN
07-19-2008, 01:37 PM
Kobe Bryants career stats do not compare to the other players' stats on this list. KOBE ISN"T EVEN TOP TEN. I'm sick of people being so blind

lalakobe24
07-19-2008, 01:55 PM
NO way is kobe on the same level as Bird. Erving, havlicek and so on..maybe in that group. Stop ruining the thread complaining about kobe. i Dont think KObe belongs in the top 10. at 6 is bird, then we got shaq, Big O at 7 and 8..after that theres quite a few guys you can put at 9. but id say the dream.

kobe is better than pierce garnett and ray allen combined real talk


plus dnt espn rank KOBE ahead of JERRY WEST

and kobe def better than duncan

duncan only has those mvps cause of his team and hes been the main man ever since he came in the league

old *** d robinson was past his prime

here are kobes stats as a STARTER

29 ppg 6apg 7rpg thats finger thats a finger lenght away from jordan numbers

GregOden#1
07-19-2008, 02:57 PM
The voting for these awards is such a joke, that's why you never let the masses vote on something they know nothing about.

AgentViet
07-19-2008, 03:06 PM
Going with Shaq here. He totally dominated this recent era with his 4 rings.

KB24PG16
07-19-2008, 03:30 PM
big o

D-Leethal
07-19-2008, 04:52 PM
Larry Legend

Nets fan 93
07-19-2008, 06:39 PM
Big O all day

rhino17
07-19-2008, 07:06 PM
c'mon Kobe is far better than jerry West and better than Dr J. He has to be on the poll. This is pretty rediculous.

and everyone know that I am not a Kobe fan

ARMIN12NBA
07-19-2008, 07:08 PM
It doesn't really matter who won without who, because this is not a whatif game. This is about ranking the greatest players ever and we base that on the entire range of criteria and a player that has never won as the teams best player should not be voted over someone that has more achievements and better numbers and more accolades period.

Also how does Kobe have the accomplishments over Duncan when he has never won as the teams best player and Duncan has 3 finals mvp's and 3 top 12 finals performances while Kobe had 0 in the top 50 when he has been in 5 finals?

Also you can vote for Kobe in the section that says Other but you gotta explain your vote. Kobe really shouldn't be anywhere greater than #10 now.

Also I don't think any player should be in that top 8 without winning multiple times as the teams best player or having mulitple finals/league mvp's with great stats.

1) I voted for the Big O.

2) I never said his accomplishments were "better" than Duncan, but he has a wide range of accomplishments that are in his resume...The thing that separates it all is that Kobe in his prime was more dominant (4 50+ points games in a row...only Wilt did that as well as averaging 35+ppg) and he is more talented than Duncan. Can you really argue otherwise? Kobe is a better and more well-rounded player than Duncan and he has accolades as well. He is not some prospect that we are basing on potential talent. The guy is arguably the second most talented and well-rounded player of all time and he has plenty of accomplishments to go with it...BTW, he is only 29 so he has 7 years left in him to expand on those accomplishments.

LAKERMANIA
07-19-2008, 07:26 PM
I voted for Big O but i am regretting my vote.. Honestly, Kobe should be on this list.. even if his Career isnt over yet.. And most people know for a Laker fan im not that big on Kobe.. but he should be on this list

sanfranfan1210
07-19-2008, 07:33 PM
Bird

CaughtInAHustle
07-19-2008, 07:42 PM
The Big O

marvILLous
07-20-2008, 12:37 AM
Shaq

stawka
07-20-2008, 03:21 AM
I'm going with Shaq on this one.

I agree that Kobe should be in the Top 10-15 range, but the reason he isn't on this list is because he would have been vote #2 because of all the "fans". And we all know he isn't #2 of All-Time. Which is a pretty good reason not to have him on the list until we get to around #10 or so...

STAT32
07-20-2008, 04:14 AM
Larry Bird, has there every really been another player as well rounded as Larry was? Not to mention the guy showed the most heart out of anybody i've ever seen.

JordansBulls
07-20-2008, 09:14 AM
1) I voted for the Big O.

2) I never said his accomplishments were "better" than Duncan, but he has a wide range of accomplishments that are in his resume...The thing that separates it all is that Kobe in his prime was more dominant (4 50+ points games in a row...only Wilt did that as well as averaging 35+ppg) and he is more talented than Duncan. Can you really argue otherwise? Kobe is a better and more well-rounded player than Duncan and he has accolades as well. He is not some prospect that we are basing on potential talent. The guy is arguably the second most talented and well-rounded player of all time and he has plenty of accomplishments to go with it...BTW, he is only 29 so he has 7 years left in him to expand on those accomplishments.

You are talking as if Duncan isn't well rounded. The guy has 9 NBA First Teams and 8 Defensive First teams.

Kobe is good, but Duncan has no doubt performed better when it matters most.

Here are Kobe's numbers in the finals.

2000: 36.7%, 15.6/4.6/4.2
2001: 41.5%, 24.6/7.8/5.8
2002: 51.4%, 26.8/5.8/5.3
2004: 38.1%, 22.6/2.8/4.4
2008: 40.5%, 25.7/4.7/5.0

So he really has only had one good finals thus far when he has been there 5 times. That is not that impressive.


As for well rounded/skill, well people use that Most skilled Argument all the time, but what does that really mean?
Sure, Kobe may indeed be the most skilled player in the NBA but subjective valuation of "best" should relate to his achievement relative to his competition, no? With less skill but more native talent, Lebron is arguably the better player and close enough to make it too foggy to call Kobe the best. Lebron's actually done better than Kobe in terms of achievement without a dominant first option letting him be a sidekick.

Kobe's team success is, aside from this season, largely founded upon playing with an MVP and one of the most dominant players in NBA history, so his titles don't mean as much in the context of this argument, certainly not next to two guys who've won titles as the first options on their respective squads.


Also let's not forget that he had one of the worst finals ever and it was listed in the top 10 worst finals ever.

ESPN Worst Finals (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=FinalsPerformances-Worst)


Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers, 2004
Lakers vs. Pistons -- Bryant's PER 14.2
With his feud against Shaq escalating and the series getting away from the Lakers, Bryant began taking whatever shot struck him. Mostly, they struck the rim -- he shot 38.1 percent and had nearly as many turnovers (18) as assists (22) as Detroit romped in five games.



Also Duncan had 2 Finals in the top 12.

ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=FinalsPerformances-3)

Beno7500
07-20-2008, 09:14 PM
Larry Bird

MoJay
07-21-2008, 02:06 AM
Big O