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CuseDude87
07-20-2008, 03:15 PM
Don't let your guard down, Demp.

CuseDude87
07-20-2008, 03:16 PM
pop out! Yes!

dbrown1225
07-20-2008, 03:16 PM
Ryan Houdini

PunkShizzle
07-20-2008, 03:16 PM
Nice play Rammy. Wow, didn't expect to get out of that unscathed.

jiggin
07-20-2008, 03:17 PM
nice...can't believe they got out of that jam with nothing put up on the board. Nice work Demptser with a little help from the HP Ump...:)

redbird89
07-20-2008, 03:18 PM
Leave it to the Astros to have bases loaded and get absolutely nothing out of it.

CuseDude87
07-20-2008, 03:21 PM
Shave the beard, Derrek.

CuseDude87
07-20-2008, 03:24 PM
Leave it to the Astros to have bases loaded and get absolutely nothing out of it.

Why isn't Pujols in the game today? Day off?

PunkShizzle
07-20-2008, 03:25 PM
Nice hustle Edmonds?

dbrown1225
07-20-2008, 03:25 PM
you obviously didn't watch either of the games. Cubs looked pretty piss poor.

Sometimes I hate cubs fans, especially those that act like a fan but seem to not watch the team play.

So they're not allowed to have bad games? Good teams have bad stretches. Just like bad teams have good stretches.

Buckwheat
07-20-2008, 03:32 PM
What a boring series.

Baseball doesn't even seem fun because of the long layoff. :yawn:

CuseDude87
07-20-2008, 03:33 PM
Another bloop? Christ.

CuseDude87
07-20-2008, 03:34 PM
What a boring series.

Baseball doesn't even seem fun because of the long layoff. :yawn:

I know exactly what you mean. I guess I got used to not watching baseball, and now I'm bored by it. Of course. the Cubs aren't helping matters.

dbrown1225
07-20-2008, 03:36 PM
come on soto

Buckwheat
07-20-2008, 03:37 PM
Geo doesn't take many pitches anymore, it seems. His OBP hasn't been top notch lately.

dbrown1225
07-20-2008, 03:40 PM
man the quality of the WGN broadcasts is so much higher than CSN

Hawkize31
07-20-2008, 03:44 PM
Wtg Theriot.

dbrown1225
07-20-2008, 03:47 PM
come on kosuke

CuseDude87
07-20-2008, 03:47 PM
God Kosuke. Take swings at pitches out of the zone, why don't you?

CuseDude87
07-20-2008, 03:52 PM
Wow, that was closer than I thought.

CuseDude87
07-20-2008, 03:53 PM
If Dempster gets Towles, he could go for a CG easy. He'll need only 84 pitches to end this inning.

EDIT: NVM.

shrek
07-20-2008, 03:54 PM
road series are far more boring than home series. I feel more energized watching fans at wrigley cheer and boo. the home fans are more involved.

The road fans are boring. they just sit there and talk to ppl on the cell phone. few min ago i saw someone reading a magazine or something on tv and sitting few rows behind home plate. Astros fans are boring :sleep:

CuseDude87
07-20-2008, 03:57 PM
3-1 Padres over St. Louis in the bottom of the 6th.

CuseDude87
07-20-2008, 03:58 PM
Hahaha SD's pitcher Cha Seung Baek hit a 2-run HR to make it 3-1!

PunkShizzle
07-20-2008, 04:01 PM
Lincecum also going against MIL tonight. Hopefully we can gain some ground.

PunkShizzle
07-20-2008, 04:09 PM
Would this be Demp's first road win?

CuseDude87
07-20-2008, 04:14 PM
Would this be Demp's first road win?

Yep.

CuseDude87
07-20-2008, 04:16 PM
Infield single for Soto?

CuseDude87
07-20-2008, 04:17 PM
2 on, no one out.


Scored as an error.


Fonty with a 2-run double!

6-0 Cubs!

kozelkid
07-20-2008, 04:17 PM
THE NEXT UTLEY.

lol jk:D
seriously that midget packs quite a punch
I guess big things do come in small packages.

CuseDude87
07-20-2008, 04:18 PM
Wow, Fontenot. You should have been out at third.

CuseDude87
07-20-2008, 04:18 PM
THE NEXT UTLEY.

lol jk:D

Bad defense and all.

CuseDude87
07-20-2008, 04:19 PM
7-0 Cubs.

Theriot with an RBI single.

PunkShizzle
07-20-2008, 04:20 PM
Sweet, the offense showed up today.

DamnGoat
07-20-2008, 04:20 PM
Theriot with another 3 hit game.

Good for him.

CuseDude87
07-20-2008, 04:20 PM
Cardinals threatening with men on 1st and 3rd and 1 out. Bottom 7.

shrek
07-20-2008, 04:21 PM
Theriot with so many hits.

he is leading NL or maybe MLB with most multi hit games :dance:

CuseDude87
07-20-2008, 04:21 PM
Pujols pinch-hitting.

DamnGoat
07-20-2008, 04:22 PM
Theriot with so many hits.

he is leading NL or maybe MLB with most multi hit games :dance:
He has 3 and leads the league in multi-hit games.

CuseDude87
07-20-2008, 04:22 PM
Fuku double! 2nd and 3rd, 1 out.

BUD Bleachers
07-20-2008, 04:23 PM
Perfect time for the bats to start heating up.

Wrigleyboy25
07-20-2008, 04:23 PM
Cooper must really think our pen could blow this.

DamnGoat
07-20-2008, 04:23 PM
Fooker with 2 doubles today. That's a good sign. Hope he keeps that up.

kozelkid
07-20-2008, 04:23 PM
He has 3 and leads the league in multi-hit games.

god the irony. if anyone would have said that this offseason, most of the users would flame that person.
and look what happened. just saying, it isnt always about stats, I mean were dealing with humans here, and theriot proved everyone wrong

hoosiercubsfan
07-20-2008, 04:25 PM
Doesn't look like Fuku is bailing out of the box as bad as he has been in the past. Seemed like before the break he was almost out of the box in mid swing.

CuseDude87
07-20-2008, 04:26 PM
9-0 Cubs on Lee's 2-run single.

Cards get one, 3-2 Pads.

hoosiercubsfan
07-20-2008, 04:27 PM
Man I hope this is a sign of things to come. And not have them waste all their runs in this game when there is ground to be make up this week. With the Cards and Brewers playing each other if we can start/keep winning it will be a game on one of them each night.

CuseDude87
07-20-2008, 04:28 PM
god the irony. if anyone would have said that this offseason, most of the users would flame that person.
and look what happened. just saying, it isnt always about stats, I mean were dealing with humans here, and theriot proved everyone wrong

He has been good at getting on-base this year, for sure. His SLG and OPS are pretty poor, but I'll take his .400+ OBP any day from the SS spot.

CuseDude87
07-20-2008, 04:30 PM
Man I hope this is a sign of things to come. And not have them waste all their runs in this game when there is ground to be make up this week. With the Cards and Brewers playing each other if we can start/keep winning it will be a game on one of them each night.

This Cubs team doesn't operate that way. You know as well as I that this team is capable of putting up 6+ every game. I certainly wouldn't worry about them "wasting all their runs" in any game.

CuseDude87
07-20-2008, 04:30 PM
A good showing from Marmol here would be quite nice.

CuseDude87
07-20-2008, 04:31 PM
Carlos Lee out on a GB to 3rd.

1 out.

DamnGoat
07-20-2008, 04:32 PM
god the irony. if anyone would have said that this offseason, most of the users would flame that person.
and look what happened. just saying, it isnt always about stats, I mean were dealing with humans here, and theriot proved everyone wrong
Stats are pretty important and Theriot's numbers last year just weren't very good at all. It's easy to understand why many of us wanted him out of the lineup.

If he can keep this up then I'm fine with him as our SS, but he does have to maintain a really high AVG/OBP to be effective and I'm still not entirely convinced he can do it for a full season. If he does then that's awesome.

CuseDude87
07-20-2008, 04:32 PM
Marmol looking filthy. Good to see.

CuseDude87
07-20-2008, 04:32 PM
Nice play on a slow bouncing GB to Theriot.

2 down.

CuseDude87
07-20-2008, 04:33 PM
Stats are pretty important and Theriot's numbers last year just weren't very good at all. It's easy to understand why many of us wanted him out of the lineup.

If he can keep this up then I'm fine with him as our SS, but he does have to maintain a really high AVG/OBP to be effective and I'm still not entirely convinced he can do it for a full season. If he does then that's awesome.

Agreed.

CuseDude87
07-20-2008, 04:33 PM
Cubs win! 9-0!

kozelkid
07-20-2008, 04:34 PM
Stats are pretty important and Theriot's numbers last year just weren't very good at all. It's easy to understand why many of us wanted him out of the lineup.

If he can keep this up then I'm fine with him as our SS, but he does have to maintain a really high AVG/OBP to be effective and I'm still not entirely convinced he can do it for a full season. If he does then that's awesome.

I know, I know, just saying, that I think sometimes this board doesnt look at the human side of it... either way good game, i wish marmol did a valverde cheer lol

shrek
07-20-2008, 04:34 PM
god the irony. if anyone would have said that this offseason, most of the users would flame that person.
and look what happened. just saying, it isnt always about stats, I mean were dealing with humans here, and theriot proved everyone wrong

Theriot didn't prove me wrong. I never bashed theriot even when he screwed that 9th inning play which nearly cost us the game. I always believed in him and even if he slows down, i will still root for him next year.

I just want him to steal a bit more. I predicted that he will have 40 SB and hit around .350. He is on pace to hit .350 but far from 40 SB :( I also want him to score over 100 runs and don't know how far he is from that.


I like predict a lot :)

CuseDude87
07-20-2008, 04:36 PM
Theriot didn't prove me wrong. I never bashed theriot even when he screwed that 9th inning play which nearly cost us the game. I always believed in him and even if he slows down, i will still root for him next year.

I just want him to steal a bit more. I predicted that he will have 40 SB and hit around .350. He is on pace to hit .350 but far from 40 SB :( I also want him to score over 100 runs and don't know how far he is from that.


I like predict a lot :)

Dude, he's stolen 15 bases and gotten thrown out 9 times. That's a horrible ratio for SB:CS. For a SB to be effective, you need to be safe about 85% of the time. Theriot is safe 62.5% of the time. Just awful.

kozelkid
07-20-2008, 04:38 PM
Dude, he's stolen 15 bases and gotten thrown out 9 times. That's a horrible ratio for SB:CS. For a SB to be effective, you need to be safe about 85% of the time. Theriot is safe 62.5% of the time. Just awful.

I also dont think he will hit as well as he has been, I think he will be .310 by the end of the season, with .390 obp. as for stealing bases. no thank you he's pretty crappy at that...

shrek
07-20-2008, 04:40 PM
Dude, he's stolen 15 bases and gotten thrown out 9 times. That's a horrible ratio for SB:CS. For a SB to be effective, you need to be safe about 85% of the time. Theriot is safe 62.5% of the time. Just awful.

yes i know and that's why i said that he is far from stealing 40 B. He needs some work on that during off season or few weeks after cubs win the WS :clap:

hoosiercubsfan
07-20-2008, 04:44 PM
This Cubs team doesn't operate that way. You know as well as I that this team is capable of putting up 6+ every game. I certainly wouldn't worry about them "wasting all their runs" in any game.

I would normally agree to that. But with how they looked in the first two games i'm not so sure. I just hope this same team shows up next series not the team from the first two games.

Hawkize31
07-20-2008, 04:51 PM
I want to know what happened to Theriot between last year and this year in regards to stolen bases. He was very effective last year, but this year he has been bad at it. Very odd.

hoosiercubsfan
07-20-2008, 04:59 PM
Well the Cards just took a 5-3 lead going into the top of the 9th. Glaus hit a 3 run shot with 2 out.

Hawkize31
07-20-2008, 05:10 PM
Isringhausen sucked again, 1st and 3rd for San Diego, 1 out, Izzy out of the game, Brad Thompson in, Padres down by 1.

Hawkize31
07-20-2008, 05:12 PM
RBI DOUBLE!!! Tie game, 2nd and 3rd for the Padres, top of the 9th inning, 1 out.

IBB, bases will be loaded.

hoosiercubsfan
07-20-2008, 05:16 PM
Need the Padres to push a few more across. Be nice to pick back up a game against at least one of the two.

hoosiercubsfan
07-20-2008, 05:20 PM
They had bases loaded one out and couldnt get another across. So its tied up going into the bottom of the 9th.

Hawkize31
07-20-2008, 05:22 PM
They are pitching to Pujols, 1 out and nobody on. Bad decision imo.

Edit: Basically an unintentional intentional walk.

Hawkize31
07-20-2008, 05:26 PM
And the Padres try a pickoff play and throw the ball into the outfield, Pujols goes to 3rd, 1 out.

This is just further proof that the Cardinals are not good, they are just the luckiest team ever. First of all, Padres, is Albert really a threat to run in this situation? Do you really need to try to pick him off with Brad Thompson batting? That is some bad decision making and some bad execution.

Yadier Molina to bat. Jesus Christ.

hoosiercubsfan
07-20-2008, 05:26 PM
Wow that must have been one heck of a throwing error. Pujols went from first all the way to third with only 1 out. Stupid Padres and their excellent defense.

hoosiercubsfan
07-20-2008, 05:29 PM
With his semi bad foot I'd not expect Albert to be running anywhere. Looks like they just wanted to end the game i guess.

hoosiercubsfan
07-20-2008, 05:30 PM
Well they walked the next two so bases are loaded 1 out. I guess a force at any spot isnt bad and a sacrifice would win it so not a bad idea.

Hawkize31
07-20-2008, 05:32 PM
Aaron Miles hits a grand slam to win the game.

Its like every series they play, teams just lay down in front of the Cardinals. They are not talented, they just get lucky game after game after game.

turnaround3
07-20-2008, 05:33 PM
Truly unbelievable.

hoosiercubsfan
07-20-2008, 05:33 PM
Freaking grand slam by aaron miles? Are you freaking serious. All set up by a dumb *** pickoff try against pujols. Who would not have run anyhow.

hoosiercubsfan
07-20-2008, 05:37 PM
Well if we win against the dbacks we have to pick up games against one of the teams chasing us. I bet they just freaking tie each game and we get swept by the dbacks. Seems about like our luck lately.

hoosiercubsfan
07-20-2008, 05:38 PM
And i don't expect the Giants to come back against the Brewers. Seems like they just hit well against us.

Hawkize31
07-20-2008, 05:40 PM
Well if we win against the dbacks we have to pick up games against one of the teams chasing us. I bet they just freaking tie each game and we get swept by the dbacks. Seems about like our luck lately.

No kidding. They might have a tough time winning if there isn't another team there to just hand the games away. How do you blow 23 saves and have the most 1 run wins in the majors?

BUD Bleachers
07-20-2008, 05:41 PM
Well if we win against the dbacks we have to pick up games against one of the teams chasing us. I bet they just freaking tie each game and we get swept by the dbacks. Seems about like our luck lately.

It stifles me in that for as good as the Cubs have been-the best in years; they can't shake the injury plagued Cardinals or the Brewers.

hoosiercubsfan
07-20-2008, 05:51 PM
It stifles me in that for as good as the Cubs have been-the best in years; they can't shake the injury plagued Cardinals or the Brewers.

Just seems that if the Cubs win 2 of 3. The brewers and cards sweep. Heck Cubs won 1 of 3 and both of them are probably going to sweep.

BUD Bleachers
07-20-2008, 05:59 PM
Just seems that if the Cubs win 2 of 3. The brewers and cards sweep. Heck Cubs won 1 of 3 and both of them are probably going to sweep.

Braun 3-run HR. 5-0 Crew.

The Cubs need to take care of biz in the desert with STL and MIL going head to head this week.

JayhawkWild
07-20-2008, 05:59 PM
They are not talented, they just get lucky game after game after game.

That's a pretty ignorant statement. We're not talented? You really believe that luck is the only thing that has us 2 games back of you? We fought back in the last 2 games of this series after trailing early. Forget the throwing error that sent Pujols to third, we had that game won going into the 9th after Glaus' shot. If not for Izzy's complete obsession to throw fastballs right over the meat of the plate, that error never occurs.

Don't forget we've blown more saves than anybody in the majors, which doesn't really seem like the mark of a lucky team, does it? Give us some credit. The Cubs are a hell of a team with a scary lineup and real solid pitching. You are the better team in this division, but you can't look at us and say we have no talent. By doing so your only insulting a very good Cubs team and their inability to shake a team with "no talent" this far into the season.

JayhawkWild
07-20-2008, 06:00 PM
No kidding. They might have a tough time winning if there isn't another team there to just hand the games away. How do you blow 23 saves and have the most 1 run wins in the majors?

Jason Isringhausen.

Hawkize31
07-20-2008, 06:09 PM
That's a pretty ignorant statement. We're not talented? You really believe that luck is the only thing that has us 2 games back of you? We fought back in the last 2 games of this series after trailing early. Forget the throwing error that sent Pujols to third, we had that game won going into the 9th after Glaus' shot. If not for Izzy's complete obsession to throw fastballs right over the meat of the plate, that error never occurs.

Don't forget we've blown more saves than anybody in the majors, which doesn't really seem like the mark of a lucky team, does it? Give us some credit. The Cubs are a hell of a team with a scary lineup and real solid pitching. You are the better team in this division, but you can't look at us and say we have no talent. By doing so your only insulting a very good Cubs team and their inability to shake a team with "no talent" this far into the season.

Kyle Loshe 126.1IP 3.35 ERA in 2008 Career ERA: 4.68 in 1290.1IP

This is the type of thing I'm talking about. Kyle Loshe is not talented, he is ridiculously lucky.

Cubs: 58-40 Record +111 Run Differential
Cardinals: 57-43 Record +33 Run Differential

The Cubs are outscoring their opponents by more than a run per game (1.027 runs). The Cardinals are outscoring their opponents by less than a 3rd of a run (.3 runs). The Cubs have scored 40 more runs than the Cardinals and have given up 38 less runs than the Cardinals. Despite all this, the Cubs and Cardinals are just 2 games apart. Yes, that is luck, not talent.

Edit: And as for the game today, yeah you had it won on the Glaus homer, which came on a high fastball with no movement at all. Horrible pitch by Bell. Then, the Padres had it won with bases loaded, 2 runs in, 1 out in the 9th and the Cardinals awesome bullpen somehow gets out of it. Then, for some awful reason, the Padres try to pick off Pujols at first with one out and they throw the ball into right field, sending Pujols to 3rd. The game was over at that point. If you want to call that amazing play by the Cardinals, go for it. But the Cardinal's talent didn't make the Padres retardedly throw the ball to the RF wall, in effect ending the game.

OnWisconsin2007
07-20-2008, 06:13 PM
That is the worst arguments I've ever read. Nobody in the major leagues wins 9 games in a row because he's lucky. Lohse is obviously pitching very well.

Hawkize31
07-20-2008, 06:18 PM
That is the worst arguments I've ever read. Nobody in the major leagues wins 9 games in a row because he's lucky. Lohse is obviously pitching very well.

Greg Maddux has lost 5 in a row and is winless in 12 starts. Is he unlucky or does he suck? He is unlucky.

Kyle Loshe is a pitcher who is mediocre at best who is somehow getting lucky and getting guys out. There is a reason he has a career ERA of 4.68 and a 2008 ERA of 3.35, and its not because at age 29 he has somehow figured everything out.

Edit: Not to mention the fact that you're using wins as a relevant statistic, which is a horrible way to measure anything relevant.

OnWisconsin2007
07-20-2008, 06:23 PM
"Kyle Loshe is a pitcher who is mediocre at best who is somehow getting lucky and getting guys out."

Sure, he may be mediocre for his career, but he is pitching great right now. That statement is just ridiculous. Give credit where credit is due. Nobody gets "lucky" and gets major league hitters out, especially not over 10 starts in a row.

JayhawkWild
07-20-2008, 06:25 PM
Kyle Loshe 126.1IP 3.35 ERA in 2008 Career ERA: 4.68 in 1290.1IP

This is the type of thing I'm talking about. Kyle Loshe is not talented, he is ridiculously lucky.

Cubs: 58-40 Record +111 Run Differential
Cardinals: 57-43 Record +33 Run Differential

The Cubs are outscoring their opponents by more than a run per game (1.027 runs). The Cardinals are outscoring their opponents by less than a 3rd of a run (.3 runs). The Cubs have scored 40 more runs than the Cardinals and have given up 38 less runs than the Cardinals. Despite all this, the Cubs and Cardinals are just 2 games apart. Yes, that is luck, not talent.

A guy having a good year on the mound is luck?

Ryan Dempster:
3.25 ERA 1.18 WHIP .212 BAA
Career:
4.68 ERA 1.50 WHIP .262 BAA

We obviously need to chalk up at least 10 Cubs wins to luck then too, right?

As far as the offense goes, have you compared our lineups at all? Of course your going to score more runs, that's what you're team was built to do.

Other run differentials:
Tampa Bay: 57-40 +44 RD
New York (AL): 53-45 +32 RD
Boston: 57-42 +89 RD
Los Angeles (AL): 59-38 +31 RD
Minnesota: 55-43 +33 RD

That's an awful lot of lucky teams. Apparently there is no talent in the AL this year. At least you guys are winning the division. Boston's got a higher RD than anybody in the AL, and they're in second.

hoosiercubsfan
07-20-2008, 06:27 PM
That is the worst arguments I've ever read. Nobody in the major leagues wins 9 games in a row because he's lucky. Lohse is obviously pitching very well.

And wins are the best way to rank a pitcher? Wins are a worthless stat for a pitcher. It is more a team stat that the pitcher gets saddled with. 6/25 he pitched 4 innings gave up 5 er against the Tigers. Ended up with a no decision because the rest of the team scored enough to get him off the hook for the L even though the Cards ended up losing the game anyway. His career ERA is 1.3 runs more than he is at currently. Is it lucky or is it just a career year either way he is well below what he normally does.

Max Power
07-20-2008, 06:30 PM
Luck is a pretty poor choice of words, imo. Career year is probably a better term to use.
And there is a pretty good chance that a fair amount of players on both the Cubs and Cards are in the midst of career years.

OnWisconsin2007
07-20-2008, 06:30 PM
Nobody gets lucky in sports really. Not against major leaguers, and not over and extended period of time. Wins aren't the best barometer of how great a pitcher is, I understand, but he's won 9 in a row, that means that he put his team in great position to win 9 decisions in a row. That's not lucky, saying anything else is just stupid. Would I call Dempster just a lucky pitcher this year? Obviously no Cubs fans here agree with that statement, but using the Lohse argument, he is just "lucky."

Hawkize31
07-20-2008, 06:30 PM
"Kyle Loshe is a pitcher who is mediocre at best who is somehow getting lucky and getting guys out."

Sure, he may be mediocre for his career, but he is pitching great right now. That statement is just ridiculous. Give credit where credit is due. Nobody gets "lucky" and gets major league hitters out, especially not over 10 starts in a row.

His WHIP isn't earth shattering, at 1.25. There are 10 NL pitchers with 10 wins, and Loshe ranks 2nd in the NL in wins with 12. But of those 10 pitchers with 10 wins or more, his ERA is 9th out of those 10 and his WHIP is tied for 6th out of those 10. That is because wins are a statistic based largely on something out of a pitcher's control. Look at Matt Cain last year, good ERA and a horrible W-L record.

Hawkize31
07-20-2008, 06:32 PM
Nobody gets lucky in sports really. Not against major leaguers, and not over and extended period of time. Wins aren't the best barometer of how great a pitcher is, I understand, but he's won 9 in a row, that means that he put his team in great position to win 9 decisions in a row. That's not lucky, saying anything else is just stupid. Would I call Dempster just a lucky pitcher this year? Obviously no Cubs fans here agree with that statement, but using the Lohse argument, he is just "lucky."

Dempster has a better WHIP, a better ERA, and less wins, so yeah, I'd say you're still wrong. Loshe is luckier than Dempster when it comes to wins.

hoosiercubsfan
07-20-2008, 06:32 PM
[QUOTE=JayhawkWild;5937245]A guy having a good year on the mound is luck?

Ryan Dempster:
3.25 ERA 1.18 WHIP .212 BAA
Career:
4.68 ERA 1.50 WHIP .262 BAA

We obviously need to chalk up at least 10 Cubs wins to luck then too, right?/QUOTE]

Difference in the two to me is the fact that Demp has had an ERA lower than he does now in his career. Lohse has not 4.18 has been his lowest in his career back in '05.

JayhawkWild
07-20-2008, 06:33 PM
Greg Maddux has lost 5 in a row and is winless in 12 starts. Is he unlucky or does he suck? He is unlucky.

Or he's just not pitching well right now...

And he's only lost 4 of his last 5. He got the win at Colorado on June 30th, despite giving up 8 earned runs.

In that 5 game stretch Maddux has:

Pitched 27.1 innings
Allowed 33 hits
Allowed 26 runs, 24 earned

That's nearly a run per inning. Is he unlucky, does he suck, or is currently getting ****-rocked. I'll let you decide.

Hawkize31
07-20-2008, 06:36 PM
Or he's just not pitching well right now...

And he's only lost 4 of his last 5. He got the win at Colorado on June 30th, despite giving up 8 earned runs.

In that 5 game stretch Maddux has:

Pitched 27.1 innings
Allowed 33 hits
Allowed 26 runs, 24 earned

That's nearly a run per inning. Is he unlucky, does he suck, or is currently getting ****-rocked. I'll let you decide.

He's a great pitcher going through an unlucky/rough stretch. Just like Loshe is a ****** pitcher going through a lucky stretch.

JayhawkWild
07-20-2008, 06:36 PM
[QUOTE=JayhawkWild;5937245]A guy having a good year on the mound is luck?

Ryan Dempster:
3.25 ERA 1.18 WHIP .212 BAA
Career:
4.68 ERA 1.50 WHIP .262 BAA

We obviously need to chalk up at least 10 Cubs wins to luck then too, right?/QUOTE]

Difference in the two to me is the fact that Demp has had an ERA lower than he does now in his career. Lohse has not 4.18 has been his lowest in his career back in '05.

Pretty good point, but he only threw 92 innings in '05.

hoosiercubsfan
07-20-2008, 06:39 PM
Nobody gets lucky in sports really. Not against major leaguers, and not over and extended period of time. Wins aren't the best barometer of how great a pitcher is, I understand, but he's won 9 in a row, that means that he put his team in great position to win 9 decisions in a row. That's not lucky, saying anything else is just stupid. Would I call Dempster just a lucky pitcher this year? Obviously no Cubs fans here agree with that statement, but using the Lohse argument, he is just "lucky."

Or is it that the offense has put Lohse in a good position to win? He has only pitched in 1 game so far this season when they only scored 1 run 5 times they scored 3, twice they scored 4, and 11 times they have scored 5 or more in his starts. So i'd call him lucky in having that kind of run support in all of his starts. When pitching with the decent to large lead i'd have to imagine that it is alot easier to throw strikes and go after people than when pitching tied or trailing. Seems Lohse is a vicitim of good fortune in most of his starts.

Hawkize31
07-20-2008, 06:39 PM
Kyle Lohse's team over his last 9 starts has scored 5.33 runs/game. The Cardinals on the year have scored just 4.78 runs/game. Or maybe him getting more run support isn't luck, maybe his incredible talent rubs off on the offense...

tysymo
07-20-2008, 06:41 PM
I think you guys are forgetting the Dave Duncan factor. It's not as if Lohse is the first guy in the last ten years with decent stuff who's never put it together that comes to St. Louis and all of a sudden starts pitching much better.

JayhawkWild
07-20-2008, 06:44 PM
He's a great pitcher going through an unlucky/rough stretch. Just like Loshe is a ****** pitcher going through a lucky stretch.

How is that unlucky? He is getting drilled. Is he a great pitcher? Yes. Is he going through a rough stretch? Absolutely. Is he unlucky? Absolutely not. He's getting rocked. It's not like all of the sudden strike zones are getting smaller and bats are getting bigger. He is just flat out getting hit. Unlucky is having a few bloopers get down. I only saw one of those last 5 games (In which he got rocked), but I'm pretty sure those weren't 33 bloopers that got down.

I'm not even going to throw Lohse's numbers from his "lucky stretch" out there, because it's not worth my time to keep trying to prove this to you. If you want to, please, look them up.

Also, you never responded to my other post.

hoosiercubsfan
07-20-2008, 06:45 PM
Though i'm not trying to argue who is better or not but the Cards have done quite well this year with what on paper seemed to be a subpar team. That is why people here think they have gotten lucky. With the amount of injuries they have sustained you would almost expect any other team to have thrown in the towel and be down with the Reds and Pirates. It is really freaking annoying to be honest but you have to give credit to TLR and Duncan for keeping this team and the staff going. Just seems that the Brewers and Cards just keep winning on the days the Cubs win and lose only when the Cubs do.

Hawkize31
07-20-2008, 06:46 PM
I think you guys are forgetting the Dave Duncan factor. It's not as if Lohse is the first guy in the last ten years with decent stuff who's never put it together that comes to St. Louis and all of a sudden starts pitching much better.

Very true. But I think it is up and down the whole roster. All of a sudden Ryan Ludwick is an all-star? Rick Ankiel becomes a superstar in the OF? Yadier Molina is in the top 10 in batting average? I just think they are, as a team, having about the luckiest year I've ever seen a team have.

Hawkize31
07-20-2008, 06:48 PM
How is that unlucky? He is getting drilled. Is he a great pitcher? Yes. Is he going through a rough stretch? Absolutely. Is he unlucky? Absolutely not. He's getting rocked. It's not like all of the sudden strike zones are getting smaller and bats are getting bigger. He is just flat out getting hit. Unlucky is having a few bloopers get down. I only saw one of those last 5 games (In which he got rocked), but I'm pretty sure those weren't 33 bloopers that got down.

I'm not even going to throw Lohse's numbers from his "lucky stretch" out there, because it's not worth my time to keep trying to prove this to you. If you want to, please, look them up.

Also, you never responded to my other post.

Over Maddux's last 8 losses, his offense has scored an average of 2 runs per game. Thats unlucky.

JayhawkWild
07-20-2008, 06:52 PM
Very true. But I think it is up and down the whole roster. All of a sudden Ryan Ludwick is an all-star? Rick Ankiel becomes a superstar in the OF? Yadier Molina is in the top 10 in batting average? I just think they are, as a team, having about the luckiest year I've ever seen a team have.

All of a sudden? Ryan Ludwick is a former top prospect who went through a string of incredible injuries, and for the first time is an everyday player. Rick Ankiel has literally never done anything less that this with the bat, going back into his days in the minors. Yadi however, is having a career year. Anyway, I'm done with this argument, since you refuse to respond to any points I make and clearly will not look at this logically.

Hawkize31
07-20-2008, 06:59 PM
All of a sudden? Ryan Ludwick is a former top prospect who went through a string of incredible injuries, and for the first time is an everyday player. Rick Ankiel has literally never done anything less that this with the bat, going back into his days in the minors. Yadi however, is having a career year. Anyway, I'm done with this argument, since you refuse to respond to any points I make and clearly will not look at this logically.

Well, if you are done, I guess we should stop. Thanks for letting us all know you are finished with this.

redwhitenblue
07-20-2008, 07:03 PM
Every few weeks the Cards and Brewers gain a couple games and the Cubs look ****ty, then in the course of 2-3 games the Cubs pick up 1.5-2 games on both and everyone shuts up for a few weeks



The Cubs are still in first, that's all I care about, they had a decent game today and now have to go remind AZ of the earlier series redemption and try to get a split in this post AS Break 6

jiggin
07-20-2008, 07:05 PM
I think you guys are forgetting the Dave Duncan factor. It's not as if Lohse is the first guy in the last ten years with decent stuff who's never put it together that comes to St. Louis and all of a sudden starts pitching much better.

how many pitchers, including bullpen arms, have failed or pitched below league average under Dave Duncan? I would be very interested in the numbers because most STL fans on forums on the net don't sit around praising Duncan. He has had just as many busts as successes. Most STL fans I talk with on the net and in person believe that if you go dumpster diving enough, you are going to have a success story every now and again. Most also believe there has been just as many flops as successes, which doesn't make him anything great at all...it just means he gets lucky sometimes.

redwhitenblue
07-20-2008, 07:11 PM
how many pitchers, including bullpen arms, have failed or pitched below league average under Dave Duncan? I would be very interested in the numbers because most STL fans on forums on the net don't sit around praising Duncan. He has had just as many busts as successes. Most STL fans I talk with on the net and in person believe that if you go dumpster diving enough, you are going to have a success story every now and again. Most also believe there has been just as many flops as successes, which doesn't make him anything great at all...it just means he gets lucky sometimes.
Heck, from the last few years-Dempster's performance this year, Lilly's performance last year and Lieber's performance this year are all stories Duncan would be getting tons of credit for

CuseDude87
07-20-2008, 07:28 PM
That was a pretty fun argument to read. I think that a lot of Cub fans are pissed that we have a great team this year, and it seems like we should put the rest of the division in the rear view mirror and ride into October with a 10.5 game lead. Unfortunately that hasn't happened, and fans are getting pissed. I honestly believe this talk would not occur if it was just the Brewers chasing the Cubs and not the perceived dumpster baby Cardinals.

BuckyBadger
07-20-2008, 07:43 PM
That was a pretty fun argument to read. I think that a lot of Cub fans are pissed that we have a great team this year, and it seems like we should put the rest of the division in the rear view mirror and ride into October with a 10.5 game lead. Unfortunately that hasn't happened, and fans are getting pissed. I honestly believe this talk would not occur if it was just the Brewers chasing the Cubs and not the perceived dumpster baby Cardinals.


I agree 100%. As I told a friend who is a Brewers fan, I expected their team to do well so it doesn't bother me that they are right behind us. However, no one would have said the Cards would be doing this well. I keep waiting for them to start losing and go into a nosedive, but it hasn't happened yet, which annoys the hell out of me even more. The Cardinals do have a pretty good lineup, but their pitching staff is way overachieving......Lohse, Looper, Piniero, and Wellemeyer?

homestarunner93
07-20-2008, 08:17 PM
All of a sudden? Ryan Ludwick is a former top prospect who went through a string of incredible injuries, and for the first time is an everyday player. Rick Ankiel has literally never done anything less that this with the bat, going back into his days in the minors. Yadi however, is having a career year. Anyway, I'm done with this argument, since you refuse to respond to any points I make and clearly will not look at this logically.

Yeah, HGH does wonders, doesn't it?

RedHeadsRule
07-20-2008, 08:40 PM
Sounds like Demp pitched great once again. And seriously, where in the hell did Fonty get his power at?

BUD Bleachers
07-20-2008, 08:41 PM
That was a pretty fun argument to read. I think that a lot of Cub fans are pissed that we have a great team this year, and it seems like we should put the rest of the division in the rear view mirror and ride into October with a 10.5 game lead. Unfortunately that hasn't happened, and fans are getting pissed. I honestly believe this talk would not occur if it was just the Brewers chasing the Cubs and not the perceived dumpster baby Cardinals.

B-I-N-G-O!

Every fan knows it's just typical Cubs luck.

Thing is, if you're going to win a World Series after 100 years of futility, I think some amazing things will have to happen, much like with the Red Sox and White Sox in their championship seasons.

Winning on the North Side will not be easy. But when it happens, it will be remarkable.

giventofly
07-20-2008, 08:44 PM
Ugh, walk off grand slam....

**** the Cardinals....Aaron Miles sucks.

chicubs377
07-20-2008, 11:19 PM
at least we got a nice win today.

redbird89
07-20-2008, 11:46 PM
A little late on the debate here.

Just wanted to say, we have 22 blown saves, and also 20 holds. Our bullpen isn't completely incompetent, just in the 9th. Isringhausen just makes me want to throw up every time I see him pitch. Honestly, a trained monkey could do a better job. Ryan Franklin has been okay in the situation. Kyle McClellan has been good, too.

I agree, we've been somewhat lucky. But, and I'm not saying the Cubs do, but the Cardinals don't give up. La Russa's motto is "play a hard nine". And they do, every day.

Yes, this season has been improbable, but it's more than just luck. Everything seems to be clicking despite all the injuries. Ryan Ludwick always had the potential, but he had a lot of injuries. Ankiel is quite a story, coming back from pitching to hit this well. And about HGH, he was never suspended. And, I'm sure plenty of players took it to help get over injury. I'm not saying it was right, but it's not like Ankiel was the only one. And I think it's a complement to Ankiel that all you can come up with is "HGH". Wow, that hurt so bad.

Chris Duncan isn't hitting homers this year, but Glaus (18), Ludwick (22), Ankiel (22) and Pujols (18) are. Glaus was traded for Rolen, who has hit (I believe) 6 homers this year in 60 games (he had a freak fingernail injury before the season started) and Glaus' defense hasn't appeared to have been a factor. Glaus has seemed to have no trouble with his foot, which may be due to switching from turf to grass.

Aaron Miles is hitting over .300. Yadi Molina is pretty hard to strike out. The defense has been good most of the time. The starting pitching has generally been okay. This series it hasn't been that great, but we still swept because our offense was good. I mean, yes, it was the Padres. But a walk-off grand slam by Aaron Miles? How often does that happen? Actually, it's Miles 2nd grand slam of his career.

The real blemish has been the closers role, but the middle-relief has generally been good as well.

We've had injuries that seemingly never stop. But it doesn't matter.

I don't know that we'll win the Central or the Wild Card. But we're not giving up. This team doesn't give up. Yes, the Cubs are a great team. The Brewers are a good team, too. The Cardinals are also very good. Is some of this due to luck? Possibly. But lucky or not, this team keeps moving on. Or like Dory would say, "just keep swimming. Just keep swimming."

No matter how this season turns out, it has been a great race so far. I look forward to seeing how this movie ends.

croce_99
07-21-2008, 12:02 AM
Time to make the new gamethread. Hopefully it doesn't suck as much as this one did :pity:

CubsFanBudMan74
07-21-2008, 01:14 AM
well we lost the series

we need to start winning on the road were alot better team then this

Cub_StuckinSTL
07-21-2008, 08:34 AM
Ugh, walk off grand slam....

**** the Cardinals....Aaron Miles sucks.

I was in the middle of union station in STL when that happened :pity: made me sick

behindmydesk
07-21-2008, 08:40 AM
A little late on the debate here.

Just wanted to say, we have 22 blown saves, and also 20 holds. Our bullpen isn't completely incompetent, just in the 9th. Isringhausen just makes me want to throw up every time I see him pitch. Honestly, a trained monkey could do a better job. Ryan Franklin has been okay in the situation. Kyle McClellan has been good, too.

I agree, we've been somewhat lucky. But, and I'm not saying the Cubs do, but the Cardinals don't give up. La Russa's motto is "play a hard nine". And they do, every day.

Yes, this season has been improbable, but it's more than just luck. Everything seems to be clicking despite all the injuries. Ryan Ludwick always had the potential, but he had a lot of injuries. Ankiel is quite a story, coming back from pitching to hit this well. And about HGH, he was never suspended. And, I'm sure plenty of players took it to help get over injury. I'm not saying it was right, but it's not like Ankiel was the only one. And I think it's a complement to Ankiel that all you can come up with is "HGH". Wow, that hurt so bad.

Chris Duncan isn't hitting homers this year, but Glaus (18), Ludwick (22), Ankiel (22) and Pujols (18) are. Glaus was traded for Rolen, who has hit (I believe) 6 homers this year in 60 games (he had a freak fingernail injury before the season started) and Glaus' defense hasn't appeared to have been a factor. Glaus has seemed to have no trouble with his foot, which may be due to switching from turf to grass.

Aaron Miles is hitting over .300. Yadi Molina is pretty hard to strike out. The defense has been good most of the time. The starting pitching has generally been okay. This series it hasn't been that great, but we still swept because our offense was good. I mean, yes, it was the Padres. But a walk-off grand slam by Aaron Miles? How often does that happen? Actually, it's Miles 2nd grand slam of his career.

The real blemish has been the closers role, but the middle-relief has generally been good as well.

We've had injuries that seemingly never stop. But it doesn't matter.

I don't know that we'll win the Central or the Wild Card. But we're not giving up. This team doesn't give up. Yes, the Cubs are a great team. The Brewers are a good team, too. The Cardinals are also very good. Is some of this due to luck? Possibly. But lucky or not, this team keeps moving on. Or like Dory would say, "just keep swimming. Just keep swimming."

No matter how this season turns out, it has been a great race so far. I look forward to seeing how this movie ends.

Just to give you an idea of the luck factor The cubs are the only team that is unlucky of the 3 teams, according to the Pyth record (figured based off of RS and RA)
Cubs are 58-40 should be 60-38
Cards are 57-43 should be 53-47
Brew's are 55-43 should be 52-46
So the cubs should have an 8 game lead rightnow over Mil, and a 9 game lead over the cards.