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View Full Version : brandon jennings or derrick rose



jokerzz
07-18-2008, 03:39 AM
if brandon jennings is available(2008 draft) are you going to pass derrick rose for him....

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OWX0ufGTHtE&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fcj-QnGJIkE&feature=related

mcnasty54
07-18-2008, 05:02 AM
Anyways, nah i wouldn't. Derrick is much more proven. I dunno why but it seems people are freaking out about Derrick after his poor summer league play and tendinitis. Derrick will be a monster in a few years(hopefully less).

Kyben36
07-18-2008, 07:51 AM
HMMM. Probably not. The kid looks good but cant say that I have seen enough of him. he looks good but I dont care about his hops. I care about winning. Rose has proven on both High school and College Levels that he can win. P.S. This is why I love the 1 year of college rule. You get to see everyone on the same Level. Not just some hick white boy dominating the Kansas Suburb High schools league.

JordansBulls
07-18-2008, 07:57 AM
Take Rose

kozelkid
07-18-2008, 08:20 AM
how's this for rose vs jennings
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Chicago-Simeon-vs.-Oak-Hill-Academy-Breakdown/
jennings will be good, but alot of his highlights are street ball and it doesnt show the TO side of the ball, and his defense is pretty crappy.
basically he's a cool baller and he's flashy, but I dont think he will succeed that much in the nba. He also is an attention wh*r* (aka marbury).
also why would you even do this suggestion. think about it, rose will probably have an average rookie season as most pgs do, so his value will be pretty low whether you like it or not, pretty stupid idea imo...
either way I'd take rose over jennings any day of the week

jfnyg23
07-18-2008, 09:17 AM
this is the guy that committed to arizona but is deciding to go play professionally in Europe for a year instead. thats a real shot in the mouth to david stern and collegiate basketball. he's trying to find loopholes in the system and exploit them. i couldn't hear the audio on that video cause im at work...maybe he was explaining why he "needs" to go go play in Europe. hopefully hes not a trend-setter, meaning that a lot of high schoolers will follow this path. sounds like another player who thinks they are bigger than the game.

long story short...id take rose (someone who seems so focused and committed to winning) in a heart beat over this cocky kid (i believe he was the kid that said he was planning on setting the assists record in the HS mcdonalds all american game) and his Will Smith-Fresh Prince of Bel Air-wanna be haircut.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3078/2366659160_3371fd6b0e_o.jpg

ahua
07-18-2008, 09:44 AM
how's this for rose vs jennings
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Chicago-Simeon-vs.-Oak-Hill-Academy-Breakdown/
jennings will be good, but alot of his highlights are street ball and it doesnt show the TO side of the ball, and his defense is pretty crappy.
basically he's a cool baller and he's flashy, but I dont think he will succeed that much in the nba. He also is an attention wh*r* (aka marbury).
also why would you even do this suggestion. think about it, rose will probably have an average rookie season as most pgs do, so his value will be pretty low whether you like it or not, pretty stupid idea imo...
either way I'd take rose over jennings any day of the week

Rose dominated Jennings when they played head to head just as he dominated Bayless and Augustine in college. Rose is the real deal and Jennings looks like a guy who may get tossed around in the NBA. He is shorter has a smaller frame and couldn't figure out how to get around Rose when they played. To be sure, one game doesn't tell the whole story, but the way Rose dominated Jennings and his whole team for that matter says a lot.

gobulls!!
07-18-2008, 09:54 AM
I don't know if anyone remembers but they played against each other in High school. It wasn't close!! Rose shut Jennings out, it wasn't until the 4th quarter that Jennings scored and the game was over. This was basically Roses national coming out party 28pts 9as. He absolutely destroyed number #1 Oak Hill Academy. The game was on ESPN.

illini44
07-18-2008, 10:01 AM
this is the guy that committed to arizona but is deciding to go play professionally in Europe for a year instead. thats a real shot in the mouth to david stern and collegiate basketball. he's trying to find loopholes in the system and exploit them. i couldn't hear the audio on that video cause im at work...maybe he was explaining why he "needs" to go go play in Europe. hopefully hes not a trend-setter, meaning that a lot of high schoolers will follow this path. sounds like another player who thinks they are bigger than the game.

long story short...id take rose (someone who seems so focused and committed to winning) in a heart beat over this cocky kid (i believe he was the kid that said he was planning on setting the assists record in the HS mcdonalds all american game) and his Will Smith-Fresh Prince of Bel Air-wanna be haircut.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3078/2366659160_3371fd6b0e_o.jpg


IMO, he's just exposing a major problem in the system - and I can't blame him.

I have no idea how good this kid is, but IMO, I can't blame him for wanting to go to Europe and get PAID for playng. Some people just aren't cut out for college - not just athletes, but for a lot of other professions as well. If I had the chance to make a 6-7 figure salary right out of high-school by not going to college, I'd probably do it. All it takes is one nasty injury during a college career.

And why is there a different standard for International players versus USA players? If International players don't have to go to college, I don't see why players here have to.

SwaggaIke
07-18-2008, 11:42 AM
Jennings is a beast. Rose's body has been developed for a long time and he has a year on Jennings. Rose has the potential to be a great scorer in the league as well as passer, but Jennings is the best play making point guard to come out of high school since Chris Paul. When Rose and Jennings played Rose was a senior and Jennings was a junior. Both are a year behind so it was like a high schooler against a college player.

97'bulls
07-18-2008, 11:45 AM
that's the kid that's going to play in europe instead of college right? I'd take Rose anyday, Rose is stronger in terms of finishing in the NBA. Jennings is still a skinny high school kid.

MiamiHeat
07-18-2008, 11:48 AM
Jennings had a cool haircut

ahua
07-18-2008, 12:02 PM
Jennings is a beast. Rose's body has been developed for a long time and he has a year on Jennings. Rose has the potential to be a great scorer in the league as well as passer, but Jennings is the best play making point guard to come out of high school since Chris Paul. When Rose and Jennings played Rose was a senior and Jennings was a junior. Both are a year behind so it was like a high schooler against a college player.

What?

This is just silly. Jennings is a highlight reel passer who has been known to attempt passes that become turnovers because they are ill advised at best. Jennings may end up being a decent player in the pros, but he is no beast. I also have a couple of questions. Where did you get the idea that both players were a year behind, and what makes you think that two players who are separated by a year in high school is equivalent to a college guy going up against a high school guy? Having a year on Jennings especially when those years are jr vs sr does not mean that " Rose's body has been developed for a long time . . ." it means that Rose has a better body for the pro game than the shorter scrawnier jennings.

Vincent
07-18-2008, 12:10 PM
Brandon Jennings reminds me a lot of Jamal Crawford.
Flashy, talented, long, great handles, good dunker, and skinny.

Except Jenning is a much better passer, and is only 6'1 compared to Crawford who is 6'5.

I think Jennings ruined his chances of becoming a #1 pick in the upcomming draft by going to Italy. Come March Madness, people are going to forget about this kid and hype up anyone that does well in the tourney. He'll still probably be a lottery pick, but I doubt people will consider him a top pick (unless the Spurs, Raptors, or Knicks get the first pick). This is also out the door if he absolutely dominates the Italian league, which I doubt he has the tools and experience to do.

Rose is overall a better player than Jennings so far. He has a workman's attitude and speaks more with his game rather than his mouth (not saying Jennings is a loud mouth *but he did promise to break the record for assists in the McDonalds game, which they lost*), or haircuts.

Jennings loves the attention, Rose shys away from it.

It's kind of like, whether you want a Tim Duncan or a Shaq (in terms of personality).

All a matter of opinion.

But in game comparasion, Rose is much better in a halfcourt setting than Jennings, and has proven to come up big in big situations. Rose also is naturally stronger than Jennings, and with this strength, also has the speed to match.

Both of them have pretty weak jumpers, but Jennings seems to have more confidence in his than Rose's. Rose has a quicker release, but Jennings shoots left handed, which could cause confusion for defenders.
Rose can finish with either hand, I haven't seen enough of Jennings to evaluate that.
Rose is a proven defender, while Jennings may not have the frame to guard bigger guards.

In my opinion, I would take Rose, even though Jennings will probably be a very exciting player in the league. But winning brings just as much excitement in my eyes.

ackar
07-18-2008, 12:12 PM
i'll take Rose the stronger more polished and discipline player.

SwaggaIke
07-18-2008, 12:16 PM
What?

This is just silly. Jennings is a highlight reel passer who has been known to attempt passes that become turnovers because they are ill advised at best. Jennings may end up being a decent player in the pros, but he is no beast. I also have a couple of questions. Where did you get the idea that both players were a year behind, and what makes you think that two players who are separated by a year in high school is equivalent to a college guy going up against a high school guy? Having a year on Jennings especially when those years are jr vs sr does not mean that " Rose's body has been developed for a long time . . ." it means that Rose has a better body for the pro game than the shorter scrawnier jennings.

1. Rose was born in October of 1988. He graduated in 2007. Had he started school on time he would have been an '06.

2. Jennings was born in September of 1989. He graduated in 2008. Had he started school on time he would have been an '07.

3. Being a year away from your originally scheduled graduating class = a year behind.

4. The year they played each other, Rose should have been a freshman in College. Jennings in turn should have been a senior in high school. The equivalent of a college kid against a high schooler.

5. Jennings does turn the ball over, but he's also known to set his teammates up at the precise spot to get them the best bucket available. That's called playmaking. Have you ever seen him play? He is a beast. And I think Bill Self, Jim Calhoun, Lute Olsen and a few other top tier college program coaches would agree w/ me.

6. Rose was more developed than Jennings, helping him to shut him down defensively. That's like LeBron against J.R Giddens coming out of high school. They were both talented, but LeBron had a more developed body at the time. Jennings is a high school kid who has yet to see a big time weight room. Rose has been fine tuned for this all his life. Kind of like Marinovich the football player. Rose's brothers have been grooming him for this his entire life, he was in big time weight rooms when he was an early teen.

7. I love Rose's game and I think he will be a phenomenal player. I also would take him over Jennings. But some of the posts in this thread are ridiculous. Jennings is a class player as well. He deserves respect.

Chicagofaithful
07-18-2008, 12:54 PM
D Rose

kozelkid
07-18-2008, 01:39 PM
What?

This is just silly. Jennings is a highlight reel passer who has been known to attempt passes that become turnovers because they are ill advised at best. Jennings may end up being a decent player in the pros, but he is no beast. I also have a couple of questions. Where did you get the idea that both players were a year behind, and what makes you think that two players who are separated by a year in high school is equivalent to a college guy going up against a high school guy? Having a year on Jennings especially when those years are jr vs sr does not mean that " Rose's body has been developed for a long time . . ." it means that Rose has a better body for the pro game than the shorter scrawnier jennings.

yup. Jennings is a good player, but he has shown to fall short against tougher competition, mayo and rose come to mind and jennings was absolutely dominated. Like I said he's a baller and while he does fancy **** and it looks cool on youtube, it doesnt account for all the TO's he commits as well. When I look at this kid I see a tj ford as a better scorer. He will be good, but at the same time it's doubtful he'll ever be a good defender, he will get a crapload of TO's and he is an attention seeker. I'd probably take rubio over him as well. Hell, hopefully we can see the 2 go at it in euro, my bet will be on rubio who btw is a year younger, so no excuse will be for jennings this time

chicagowhitesox
07-18-2008, 01:40 PM
Brandon Jennings is not in Derrick Rose's league.

kozelkid
07-18-2008, 01:42 PM
1. Rose was born in October of 1988. He graduated in 2007. Had he started school on time he would have been an '06.

2. Jennings was born in September of 1989. He graduated in 2008. Had he started school on time he would have been an '07.

3. Being a year away from your originally scheduled graduating class = a year behind.

4. The year they played each other, Rose should have been a freshman in College. Jennings in turn should have been a senior in high school. The equivalent of a college kid against a high schooler.

5. Jennings does turn the ball over, but he's also known to set his teammates up at the precise spot to get them the best bucket available. That's called playmaking. Have you ever seen him play? He is a beast. And I think Bill Self, Jim Calhoun, Lute Olsen and a few other top tier college program coaches would agree w/ me.

6. Rose was more developed than Jennings, helping him to shut him down defensively. That's like LeBron against J.R Giddens coming out of high school. They were both talented, but LeBron had a more developed body at the time. Jennings is a high school kid who has yet to see a big time weight room. Rose has been fine tuned for this all his life. Kind of like Marinovich the football player. Rose's brothers have been grooming him for this his entire life, he was in big time weight rooms when he was an early teen.

7. I love Rose's game and I think he will be a phenomenal player. I also would take him over Jennings. But some of the posts in this thread are ridiculous. Jennings is a class player as well. He deserves respect.

what about when lebron shut melo down in high school? they also were a year difference.
Like I said jennings will eb a good playmaker, he can set players up, but at the same time, his defense is below average, he is VERY cocky, he will get you a crapload of TO's. I think tj ford is a pretty fair comparison for this kid, except he will be a better scorer and range. Comparing him to paul, however, is ridiculous, it's like comparing rose to mj (either one :D).

SwaggaIke
07-18-2008, 01:46 PM
what about when lebron shut melo down in high school? they also were a year difference.
Like I said jennings will eb a good playmaker, he can set players up, but at the same time, his defense is below average, he is VERY cocky, he will get you a crapload of TO's. I think tj ford is a pretty fair comparison for this kid, except he will be a better scorer and range. Comparing him to paul, however, is ridiculous, it's like comparing rose to mj (either one :D).

I never once compared him to Chris Paul. I said he's the best playmaker out of high school since Chris Paul and he is. And I don't recall LeBron ever shutting down Carmelo at Oak Hill. Infact I remember Melo hanging 30+ on LeBron's head the last time they played.

Sox Appeal
07-18-2008, 02:02 PM
I'll go with Rose. I haven't seen much of Jennings, so I don't have much to base my opinion off of. But one thing that would worry me about Jennings is (I hate playing this card but..), he didn't have the grades to get into Arizona. And as far as I know, Rose had no problems getting into Memphis. And when your making a decision like that, you have to take everything into effect.

kozelkid
07-18-2008, 04:03 PM
I never once compared him to Chris Paul. I said he's the best playmaker out of high school since Chris Paul and he is. And I don't recall LeBron ever shutting down Carmelo at Oak Hill. Infact I remember Melo hanging 30+ on LeBron's head the last time they played.

Actually it was a close game between melo and lebron, that was a bad part by me, BUT it was a close game adn there was year difference. jennings, on the other hand, was COMPLETELY shut down by rose. jennings, as I said, has been shut down everytime he faces stiffer competition. and dont you give me excuse about a year difference. I gave you one example with lebron and melo, here's another. Dont know if you ever heard of him, there's a player by the name lance stephenson, he is a HS senior and he played oj mayo one time in HS, the difference in age was 2 grades, but actually 3 years since mayo is a year older than his own class. While mayo and his team eventually dominated and won, lance put up a hell of a game, I have yet to see jennings do that. again, I think jennings will be a good player but he hasnt faired against elite competition which says alot about him.
Also, when you say he's the best playmaker since paul, what do you mean? that he make cool passes. Sure maybe he can, but if that's how you grade a playmaker then I guess tj ford is better than deron williams, because while deron williams wont make "cool" or "baller" passes, he gets the job done he makes SMART passes. and that's what will be the difference between jennings and rose. Jennings may be a better baller and may make more ESPN top 10 plays, but at the same he will also be averaging quite a few more TO's and therefore wont ever be the same playmaker as rose, just like that's teh difference between ford and dwill, ford makes cooler passes and looks flashier, dwill gets the job done, makes smart passes and limits the TO's in the process.
I'm sorry but if that's the case I'll take the one with less flash who gets the job over the other, otherwise harlem globetrotters who have actually been in the nba.
Fact is jennings does make cool, highlight worthy passes, but he also racks up TO's, plays poor defense and can have a problem attitude since he is all about attention. He's fun to watch play, but then again so are the phoenix suns, doesnt make them any better or even close to the spurs in terms of skill.
Like I said he will be a good player, he wont be ELITE like rose can potentially be. Paul is a hell of a passer and makes sick passes, but paul in the process is also one of the smartest decision makers and that's why he's the best playmaker in the league, unlike jennigns who imo will be a tj ford, cool passes, but bad decision making will always pull him down. I still think he will be worth a top 5 pick though in this upcoming draft and in the future may possibly be a top 5 pg, but he will never be an elite pg, and imo an elite is around that top 3 range. (when I look at the pgs now in the nba, elite were once nash and kidd, and now are deron and paul and hopefully rose). the good, on the other hand, are plenty. as I mentioned ford, andre miller, calderon, etc. They are good but players like paul and deron are good at all skills, while other I mentioned have major weaknesses as well.

SwaggaIke
07-18-2008, 04:10 PM
Dog, what the hell are you debating? I just said the man is the best playmaker since Paul. He turns the ball over but he also sets his teammates up for the best possible shot. He consistently gets his teammates good looks, whether it be in all star games, Oak Hill or when he was at Dominquez. Nobody cares about his flash. I'm not arguing that he's better than Rose. I didn't say he was the best point guard since Paul or anything that would put Rose beneath him. Why waste all that time posting that bible? I never said he was better than Rose at any facet of the game. I just said to give Jennings his credit. All that typing you did was unnecessary.

IndiansFan337
07-18-2008, 04:31 PM
Rose is bigger, stronger, and a proven winner. Anyone would take him over Jennings. Especially Chicago fans (in this forum), since he is from their city.

kozelkid
07-18-2008, 04:47 PM
Dog, what the hell are you debating? I just said the man is the best playmaker since Paul. He turns the ball over but he also sets his teammates up for the best possible shot. He consistently gets his teammates good looks, whether it be in all star games, Oak Hill or when he was at Dominquez. Nobody cares about his flash. I'm not arguing that he's better than Rose. I didn't say he was the best point guard since Paul or anything that would put Rose beneath him. Why waste all that time posting that bible? I never said he was better than Rose at any facet of the game. I just said to give Jennings his credit. All that typing you did was unnecessary.

Ok, I understand, but when you say better playmaker, please expand on what you are meaning. I dont think a player who turns over the ball alot more, but may set his teammates at times may be a better playmaker. What I am saying is that simply saying a player is a better playmaker cause they can set their players up, is only looking at one dimension, and that's why I dont think he's a better playmaker than rose or has been the best since paul. What I am saying is that yes he may set his teammates up better than rose, though that's debateable, but you are looking at only one dimension. Jennings also, unlike rose, turnovers the ball a HELL of alot. that also is part of playmaking. as an overall playmaker I'd take rose over jennings, as setting up teammates, again jennings may better, but that's only one part of playmaking, limiting mistakes is a huge one, which jennings hasnt shown to be too good at thus far.
And I do give jennings credit. I think he can eventually be a top 5 pg in this league. I think thus far his shooting is better than rose's, hell it may always be. However, he isnt as complete of a player as rose, in scoring and playmaking and especially defense. Like I said he is a good player, but he misses alot of key skills that will hurt him, such as limiting turnovers/mistakes, being able to drive the ball and be able to hold his man on D...
Like I said, I like jennings, but he hasnt shown be thus far to be in the likes of deron or paul as rose can potentially be, and therefore in general I think this thread is pretty silly to suggest that.
It's like comparing bj mullens to greg oden imo.

SwaggaIke
07-18-2008, 04:59 PM
Ok, I understand, but when you say better playmaker, please expand on what you are meaning. I dont think a player who turns over the ball alot more, but may set his teammates at times may be a better playmaker. What I am saying is that simply saying a player is a better playmaker cause they can set their players up, is only looking at one dimension, and that's why I dont think he's a better playmaker than rose or has been the best since paul. What I am saying is that yes he may set his teammates up better than rose, though that's debateable, but you are looking at only one dimension. Jennings also, unlike rose, turnovers the ball a HELL of alot. that also is part of playmaking. as an overall playmaker I'd take rose over jennings, as setting up teammates, again jennings may better, but that's only one part of playmaking, limiting mistakes is a huge one, which jennings hasnt shown to be too good at thus far.
And I do give jennings credit. I think he can eventually be a top 5 pg in this league. I think thus far his shooting is better than rose's, hell it may always be. However, he isnt as complete of a player as rose, in scoring and playmaking and especially defense. Like I said he is a good player, but he misses alot of key skills that will hurt him, such as limiting turnovers/mistakes, being able to drive the ball and be able to hold his man on D...
Like I said, I like jennings, but he hasnt shown be thus far to be in the likes of deron or paul as rose can potentially be, and therefore in general I think this thread is pretty silly to suggest that.
It's like comparing bj mullens to greg oden imo.

You're making an argument and debating for the sake of seeing your own font. All I said is he is a better playmaker than Rose when it comes to setting up his teammates. I never said he was better than Rose. I never said YOU didn't give him credit. I was debating with another person and you found your way in. Everybody isn't a great defender, that will stop him from being an elite player? He just got out of high school, don't you think his game will develop over the course of his aging? Don't you think he might put on a pound or two? Improve his range a little more? Become more mature in his decision making? Get a little stronger? We're comparing an NBA player to a guy who just graduated high school a month ago. I never once said he was better than Rose or that he could be better than Rose. I don't know where you got the notion that Jennings can't drive the ball. He's has a tremendous first step and he's a great athlete. What games of his were you watching? I was just asking other posters to give him his credit, or actually see him play before passing judgment. You just went on an unnecessary rant to prove a point that has no bearing. Right now he is a better set up man than Derrick Rose and that's the only point I was trying to get across. Jesus.

kozelkid
07-18-2008, 05:10 PM
You're making an argument and debating for the sake of seeing your own font. All I said is he is a better playmaker than Rose when it comes to setting up his teammates. I never said he was better than Rose. I never said YOU didn't give him credit. I was debating with another person and you found your way in. Everybody isn't a great defender, that will stop him from being an elite player? He just got out of high school, don't you think his game will develop over the course of his aging? Don't you think he might put on a pound or two? Improve his range a little more? Become more mature in his decision making? Get a little stronger? We're comparing an NBA player to a guy who just graduated high school a month ago. I never once said he was better than Rose or that he could be better than Rose. I don't know where you got the notion that Jennings can't drive the ball. He's has a tremendous first step and he's a great athlete. What games of his were you watching? I was just asking other posters to give him his credit, or actually see him play before passing judgment. You just went on an unnecessary rant to prove a point that has no bearing. Right now he is a better set up man than Derrick Rose and that's the only point I was trying to get across. Jesus.

(a)again the set up man is debateable, but we wont debate that now, all I am saying is that to say he is a better playmaker than rose isnt correct. is he a better setting up? maybe, but if that's what you meant, you should of said that to begin with, so I understood you. as an overall playmaker? no, at least not until he limits the mistakes.
(b) what's wrong with comparing the 2? they are a year apart, rose hasnt even played in the nba yet. I do think jennings will improve, but I doubt he will grow much more than he is. He will be a 6'0-6'1 pg which is perfectly fine. I think he will grow, but there are certain aspects of the game he will probably not improve, because either you got it or not. By this age, I doubt he will grow much more, he will get stronger, but wont grow much more. i also dont think he will be a great defender because of his size and because he hasnt shown the attitude and hustle that he wants to. and yes, I do believe that great players have to be good at all areas in the game, either that or be perfect offensively, and I can only think of one player who passed as the second option (magic johnson, and possibly barkley). I think jennings can drive, but he played against high school players. he wont be able to throw his body like rose or dwill can because I dont think he will ever have the size to do it. I think he will score of off being quick at times, like tj ford and that's what he has done thus far in HS. Again, do think he will be a good player, but I dont think he will be great. I mean were are talking about a player whose about to play pro anyway, I dont see why this isnt fair to debate over. And I dont see why you are getting so worked over about it...

SwaggaIke
07-18-2008, 05:13 PM
(a)again the set up man is debateable, but we wont debate that now, all I am saying is that to say he is a better playmaker than rose isnt correct. is he a better setting up? maybe, but if that's what you meant, you should of said that to begin with, so I understood you. as an overall playmaker? no, at least not until he limits the mistakes.
(b) what's wrong with comparing the 2? they are a year apart, rose hasnt even played in the nba yet. I do think jennings will improve, but I doubt he will grow much more than he is. He will be a 6'0-6'1 pg which is perfectly fine. I think he will grow, but there are certain aspects of the game he will probably not improve, because either you got it or not. By this age, I doubt he will grow much more, he will get stronger, but wont grow much more. i also dont think he will be a great defender because of his size and because he hasnt shown the attitude and hustle that he wants to. and yes, I do believe that great players have to be good at all areas in the game, either that or be perfect offensively, and I can only think of one player who passed as the second option (magic johnson, and possibly barkley). I think jennings can drive, but he played against high school players. he wont be able to throw his body like rose or dwill can because I dont think he will ever have the size to do it. I think he will score of off being quick at times, like tj ford and that's what he has done thus far in HS. Again, do think he will be a good player, but I dont think he will be great. I mean were are talking about a player whose about to play pro anyway, I dont see why this isnt fair to debate over. And I dont see why you are getting so worked over about it...

Because I hate debating w/ people who are just doing it for the sake of being able to. There is no reason that we should even be this deep into this conversation.

kozelkid
07-18-2008, 05:16 PM
Because I hate debating w/ people who are just doing it for the sake of being able to. There is no reason that we should even be this deep into this conversation.


and we wouldnt if you were more clear that you thought jennings was better than rose on ONE particular aspect of playmaking, not playmaking in general.
either way, I agree it's pointless and we shall see more talks about jennings in a year to come, however i dont think jennings will ever be quite as good as rose and frankly as I said before the idea of this thread was pretty dumb to begin with.

Vincent
07-18-2008, 05:17 PM
Actually it was a close game between melo and lebron, that was a bad part by me, BUT it was a close game adn there was year difference. jennings, on the other hand, was COMPLETELY shut down by rose. jennings, as I said, has been shut down everytime he faces stiffer competition. and dont you give me excuse about a year difference. I gave you one example with lebron and melo, here's another. Dont know if you ever heard of him, there's a player by the name lance stephenson, he is a HS senior and he played oj mayo one time in HS, the difference in age was 2 grades, but actually 3 years since mayo is a year older than his own class. While mayo and his team eventually dominated and won, lance put up a hell of a game, I have yet to see jennings do that. again, I think jennings will be a good player but he hasnt faired against elite competition which says alot about him.
Also, when you say he's the best playmaker since paul, what do you mean? that he make cool passes. Sure maybe he can, but if that's how you grade a playmaker then I guess tj ford is better than deron williams, because while deron williams wont make "cool" or "baller" passes, he gets the job done he makes SMART passes. and that's what will be the difference between jennings and rose. Jennings may be a better baller and may make more ESPN top 10 plays, but at the same he will also be averaging quite a few more TO's and therefore wont ever be the same playmaker as rose, just like that's teh difference between ford and dwill, ford makes cooler passes and looks flashier, dwill gets the job done, makes smart passes and limits the TO's in the process.
I'm sorry but if that's the case I'll take the one with less flash who gets the job over the other, otherwise harlem globetrotters who have actually been in the nba.
Fact is jennings does make cool, highlight worthy passes, but he also racks up TO's, plays poor defense and can have a problem attitude since he is all about attention. He's fun to watch play, but then again so are the phoenix suns, doesnt make them any better or even close to the spurs in terms of skill.
Like I said he will be a good player, he wont be ELITE like rose can potentially be. Paul is a hell of a passer and makes sick passes, but paul in the process is also one of the smartest decision makers and that's why he's the best playmaker in the league, unlike jennigns who imo will be a tj ford, cool passes, but bad decision making will always pull him down. I still think he will be worth a top 5 pick though in this upcoming draft and in the future may possibly be a top 5 pg, but he will never be an elite pg, and imo an elite is around that top 3 range. (when I look at the pgs now in the nba, elite were once nash and kidd, and now are deron and paul and hopefully rose). the good, on the other hand, are plenty. as I mentioned ford, andre miller, calderon, etc. They are good but players like paul and deron are good at all skills, while other I mentioned have major weaknesses as well.


Top 5 Point Guard?

Rose
Paul
Williams

Hmm... maybe you're giving him a little too much credit...

No one denies that Brandon Jennings has talent (unless they're haters). In fact, he's one of the most unique players to come out of high school in a long time. But I don't think he will have the skills, the body, and the decision making to match Derrick Rose.

SwaggaIke
07-18-2008, 05:18 PM
and we wouldnt if you were more clear that you thought jennings was better than rose on ONE particular aspect of playmaking, not playmaking in general.
either way, I agree it's pointless and we shall see more talks about jennings in a year to come, however i dont think jennings will ever be quite as good as rose and frankly as I said before the idea of this thread was pretty dumb to begin with.

I said that hours ago.

kozelkid
07-18-2008, 05:24 PM
Top 5 Point Guard?

Rose
Paul
Williams

Hmm... maybe you're giving him a little too much credit...

No one denies that Brandon Jennings has talent (unless they're haters). In fact, he's one of the most unique players to come out of high school in a long time. But I don't think he will have the skills, the body, and the decision making to match Derrick Rose.

It's possible. look at it this way. assuming rose reaches his potential, he is an elite pg.
so the 3 elite are rose, dwill, and paul since nash and kidd are declining fast and wont be in this discussion soon...
after that come the good, you can go with anyone at this point.
I think jennings can be in the level of bdiddy, billups, parker and even arenas, not in terms of similar games, but overall level. I think he will be a better playmaker than any of the 4, I think he will have the defense level of arenas and parker while billups is very good and bdiddy is pretty good and, I think his scoring will be around 20ppg or so equal to bdiddy and parker but below arenas and above billups. However, for him to thrive, he will HAVE to play in fast pace offense, a bit like arenas and bdiddy imo...

Vincent
07-18-2008, 05:26 PM
It's possible. look at it this way. assuming rose reaches his potential, he is an elite pg.
so the 3 elite are rose, dwill, and paul since nash and kidd are declining fast and wont be in this discussion soon...
after that come the good, you can go with anyone at this point.
I think jennings can be in the level of bdiddy, billups, parker and even arenas, not in terms of similar games, but overall level. I think he will be a better playmaker than any of the 4, I think he will have the defense level of arenas and parker while billups is very good and bdiddy is pretty good and, I think his scoring will be around 20ppg or so equal to bdiddy and parker but below arenas and above billups. However, for him to thrive, he will HAVE to play in fast pace offense, a bit like arenas and bdiddy imo...

I don't think that he has the shot to be compared to Arenas or B Diddy, nor the driving ability to be considered a Parker.

I agree that he will need a fast paced offense to succeed. His playmaking abilities really shine running the floor, rather in set movements.

kozelkid
07-18-2008, 05:31 PM
I don't think that he has the shot to be compared to Arenas or B Diddy, nor the driving ability to be considered a Parker.

I agree that he will need a fast paced offense to succeed. His playmaking abilities really shine running the floor, rather in set movements.

Well, offensively I think he is a more all around player than either of the 3. for one, baron davis isnt exactly a great shooter, he has a career average of around 41% fg, nothing special and he has always played fast paced. Here's what I think. As an overall scorer, arenas definitly destroys him, with davis I think it's close cause I do think he will be a better shooter than bdiddy, but he will be worse of a driver than either of the 3. He also will be a better shooter than parker, btu again worse driver. So scoring wise i think he will be similar to parker and bdiddy, maybe slightly wose... However, he is pushed back into this discussion because he is a much better playmaker than either of the 3. However, he will need fast pace and that's why alot of people overrate him cause of his flashiness in fast pace. I think he will be a 2nd tier pg eventually though, with 1st tier being elite of course
EDIT: It will be interesting to see how well he will be able to drive in teh pro level, and whether because of that he will depend on fast pace offense. however, he may be quick enough to be a ford like driver...

ADDED: I'll tell you one thing, he appears like one cocky mutha****er.

Now a guy I think who will be sick is John wall, but he's 2 years away from the nba. he has teh athletic ability like jennings but also has size.

Afridi786
07-18-2008, 06:25 PM
long story short...id take rose (someone who seems so focused and committed to winning) in a heart beat over this cocky kid (i believe he was the kid that said he was planning on setting the assists record in the HS mcdonalds all american game) and his Will Smith-Fresh Prince of Bel Air-wanna be haircut.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3078/2366659160_3371fd6b0e_o.jpg

that was him, he's played like garbage, he had plenty of ill advised passes just because he wanted a ton of assists.

BigBallinman
07-18-2008, 06:30 PM
IMO, he's just exposing a major problem in the system - and I can't blame him.

I have no idea how good this kid is, but IMO, I can't blame him for wanting to go to Europe and get PAID for playng. Some people just aren't cut out for college - not just athletes, but for a lot of other professions as well. If I had the chance to make a 6-7 figure salary right out of high-school by not going to college, I'd probably do it. All it takes is one nasty injury during a college career.

And why is there a different standard for International players versus USA players? If International players don't have to go to college, I don't see why players here have to.

I agree look what happened to shawn livingston if he had not gone to the NBA right out of high school,he may not of never gotten the chance to play in the NBA.

Vincent
07-18-2008, 06:31 PM
Well, offensively I think he is a more all around player than either of the 3. for one, baron davis isnt exactly a great shooter, he has a career average of around 41% fg, nothing special and he has always played fast paced. Here's what I think. As an overall scorer, arenas definitly destroys him, with davis I think it's close cause I do think he will be a better shooter than bdiddy, but he will be worse of a driver than either of the 3. He also will be a better shooter than parker, btu again worse driver. So scoring wise i think he will be similar to parker and bdiddy, maybe slightly wose... However, he is pushed back into this discussion because he is a much better playmaker than either of the 3. However, he will need fast pace and that's why alot of people overrate him cause of his flashiness in fast pace. I think he will be a 2nd tier pg eventually though, with 1st tier being elite of course
EDIT: It will be interesting to see how well he will be able to drive in teh pro level, and whether because of that he will depend on fast pace offense. however, he may be quick enough to be a ford like driver...

ADDED: I'll tell you one thing, he appears like one cocky mutha****er.

Now a guy I think who will be sick is John wall, but he's 2 years away from the nba. he has teh athletic ability like jennings but also has size.

Baron Davis is pretty big for a Point Guard (6'3). Arenas is more of a shooting guard, but also has pretty good height (6'4). A lot of times these players shoot over smaller Point Guards (ex. Baron vs. D. Harris, Arenas vs. D. Gibson *Playoffs Reference*). At 6'0 (or maybe 6'2 if Jennings grows a bit), he'll have a little trouble getting his shot off. Mixed that with him not being physically imposing will cause him troubles to find the hole in the NBA. Parker has been thrown in a dream situation, playing with a legendary big-man like Duncan. A lot of outlet passes for fastbreaks, and a lot of open lanes during drives (since Duncan knows how to box out the weakside help better than anyone in the league). To Parker's credit, he's a fantastic finisher, but unless Jennings plays with someone of that caliber, I doubt he'll experience the same success.

kozelkid
07-18-2008, 06:40 PM
Baron Davis is pretty big for a Point Guard (6'3). Arenas is more of a shooting guard, but also has pretty good height (6'4). A lot of times these players shoot over smaller Point Guards (ex. Baron vs. D. Harris, Arenas vs. D. Gibson *Playoffs Reference*). At 6'0 (or maybe 6'2 if Jennings grows a bit), he'll have a little trouble getting his shot off. Mixed that with him not being physically imposing will cause him troubles to find the hole in the NBA. Parker has been thrown in a dream situation, playing with a legendary big-man like Duncan. A lot of outlet passes for fastbreaks, and a lot of open lanes during drives (since Duncan knows how to box out the weakside help better than anyone in the league). To Parker's credit, he's a fantastic finisher, but unless Jennings plays with someone of that caliber, I doubt he'll experience the same success.

good point, but again, I think jennings' playmaking is what will push him back to these guys' level. he will probably be a better playmaker than any of them.

Second City
07-18-2008, 06:49 PM
I'll take D Rose any day of the week.

Chi-Town Finest
07-18-2008, 11:00 PM
Id take Rose because of his overall game but Jennings will be a hell of a passer but dont know how much more he will bring to the table.

Tyrus Thomas
07-18-2008, 11:08 PM
I'll take D Rose any day of the week.

nah, id take Jennings over Rose on the days that dont end with y.

Sox Appeal
07-19-2008, 11:35 PM
nah, id take Jennings over Rose on the days that dont end with y.

:rimshot: